Author Topic: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?  (Read 4254 times)

Livingthedream55

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA
Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« on: November 27, 2017, 01:31:07 PM »
I bought "The Automatic Millionaire" for my 20 year old daughter (living at home, finishing college) a few months ago and have asked her a few times to read it but she has never picked it up.

I had some hopes that it would be a quick and easy read for her that might spark some incentive for her to set up an automatic investing plan. She's about six months away from graduating college and hence will be getting her first professional job. She does minimum wage jobs (a few hours at a coffee shop, a host at a restaurant etc.) plus a little babysitting/ dog walking right now. She has a significant "Latte Factor" and I thought this book might add another voice (besides mine!) where she would get excited about the potential of investing and having a financially secure future.

Would you incentive it? I'm thinking of offering $50 if she reads it and prepares a short summary that she presents to me along the lines of a book report.

On the other hand, I "made" my older daughter bring home her 401K paperwork when she got her first job out of college and kind of strong armed/charmed her into investing 10% (incentive was free rent plus keeping her on family health insurance so she had very few monthly bills apart from a cell phone and car insurance). I could do the same for younger daughter.

Thoughts???

NorthernBlitz

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 287
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 01:47:53 PM »
I think that giving an incentive wouldn't be unreasonable. How many people say "If I only knew more about investing when I was younger..."

The problem would be that she might not synthesize it if she's only doing it for money.

Is it the reading that she doesn't like? If that's it, maybe she'd prefer a podcast or audio book. They she could listen while commuting or something.

If they're in to podcasts, there are two good podcasts from Freakonomics about index investing here:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/stupidest-money/ <-- Summary: invest in index funds
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/everything-always-wanted-know-money-afraid-ask/ <-- Summary of the "financial index card" rules of personal finance.

A link to a picture of a financial index card can be found here:
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/01/07/index-67f786d0f1fbbf302d422c5bf30dd1624f991dac-s1600-c85.jpg

Good production quality and pretty accessible (also good titles). If she's willing to devote about 1.5 hours, she'll get a pretty good base level of financial literacy.

BAM

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: New Mexico
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 02:05:57 PM »
I would not. Putting an incentive on anything usually has two effects - making the person NOT want to do it and making them find the quickest way possible to do it. I doubt it would have the effect you wanted even if she did read it for the money.

For my 20 and 21 year olds, I've found the best way to teach them about investing, etc is to "think out loud". DH and I talk to them about it a lot, mentioning the things we've done right, the things we've done wrong, the goals we have, etc. We also talk to each other about those things while they are around (most kids/young adults like to listen to adult conversations : ).

ixtap

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1004
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2017, 02:09:36 PM »
No.

At that age, it is usually best to just hang out so that they can relax around you and eventually ask some questions. A 20 year old with enough money for latte usually feels on top of the world and doesn't respond well to nagging.

rubybeth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1327
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 02:54:27 PM »
What has motivated her in the past? If she's not motivated by information on its own, then you might be able to figure out what would motivate her (and it may not be money). Something like the Four Tendencies may help: https://gretchenrubin.com/2015/01/ta-da-the-launch-of-my-quiz-on-the-four-tendencies-learn-about-yourself/

joonifloofeefloo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5739
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2017, 02:58:25 PM »
Yep, I would!

I'm a person very incentivized by money -if you're paying me to do it, I'll not only do it but I'll do it as well as I can- so some people's take on $ incentives don't fit my experience. I think we can't know in advance whether or not a person will synthesize info when they are paid. They may and they may not; we can't control that part. On the chance that she would, I would offer the cash.

I really like the deal you made with your other daughter, too.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 04:04:10 PM »
When it comes to being a parent of adult children the cake has been baked, so to speak. The time for strong arming and cajoling has past, and the relationship transitions from parent-child to peer-peer based on mutual respect -- otherwise your kids will keep acting/thinking like dependants or, if they are strong willed, they will distance themselves from you.

I would not nag or incentivise, which is patronizing. I would share something like "I've managed and invested my money well, which has enabled me to achieve financial freedom and retire early. If you're ever curious to learn how to do this please let me know, I'd be more than happy to teach you what I've learned over many years." Then I'd leave it at that. She may not even want to save, invest, or FIRE. But she may take you up on the offer. And if you're not bailing her out financially, enabling the latte factor, then at some point she may get tired of stressing about finances and running the rat race and desire saving/investing/FIRE as a goal.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5382
  • Location: BC
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 04:17:41 PM »
I have an almost-18 year old in college, and a 15 year old.   An 18 year old without latte money is also feeling pretty on top of the world, BTW.

What works best is if I say -- tomorrow after dinner, we are going to sit down and talk about the first three chapters of the book.
Then when dinner is over, I say .. "It's time to review those book chapters.   Do you want me to finish cleaning up for you so you can scan get the book before we sit down with dessert to discuss it?"

Not really nagging, more of a "It's time to begin"; coupled with doing it together, and I "give a little" by helping them with chores to open up their ability to do it.   My kids are not planners.  They have told me they prefer this approach to remembering all on their own (another problem for another day).

Yesterday, I knew that DD had not submitted her health claim form yet.  I asked she wanted my help, she said yes... then then next day I said " It's time to do this, grab your receipts and laptop and meet me in the kitchen".   If I waited for her to initiate, it would never happen, even though it is $170 worth of money back to her pocket.

Asking them to do something, paying them, or bribing them (if this then that), doesn't work at all with my kids.

Yep, it is telling them what to do.

joonifloofeefloo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5739
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 04:21:08 PM »
In many cultures and subcultures, offspring continue to be mentored up to 25 or so. I was shocked to find that, because I was on my own in every way from waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay younger than that. I see value in the longer mentoring.

Also, what are most jobs if not financial incentives to do what most otherwise would not?

These two factor into my yes :)

i_have_so_much_to_learn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: SF
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2017, 04:24:44 PM »
What about creating a program for your daughter, and instead of incentivizing just the book, creating milestones? i.e. 50 dollars to finish the book, X shares of a company for learning something else, paying her "interest" for saving Y amount of dollars in savings (i.e. you save $2000, i pay you $200).

gaja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 984
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2017, 04:32:37 PM »
When it comes to being a parent of adult children the cake has been baked, so to speak. The time for strong arming and cajoling has past, and the relationship transitions from parent-child to peer-peer based on mutual respect -- otherwise your kids will keep acting/thinking like dependants or, if they are strong willed, they will distance themselves from you.

I would not nag or incentivise, which is patronizing. I would share something like "I've managed and invested my money well, which has enabled me to achieve financial freedom and retire early. If you're ever curious to learn how to do this please let me know, I'd be more than happy to teach you what I've learned over many years." Then I'd leave it at that. She may not even want to save, invest, or FIRE. But she may take you up on the offer. And if you're not bailing her out financially, enabling the latte factor, then at some point she may get tired of stressing about finances and running the rat race and desire saving/investing/FIRE as a goal.
This! 100% this!

I got so fed up with my parents' nagging that I basically didn't speak to them for a few years.

i_have_so_much_to_learn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Location: SF
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2017, 04:34:10 PM »
When it comes to being a parent of adult children the cake has been baked, so to speak. The time for strong arming and cajoling has past, and the relationship transitions from parent-child to peer-peer based on mutual respect -- otherwise your kids will keep acting/thinking like dependants or, if they are strong willed, they will distance themselves from you.

I would not nag or incentivise, which is patronizing. I would share something like "I've managed and invested my money well, which has enabled me to achieve financial freedom and retire early. If you're ever curious to learn how to do this please let me know, I'd be more than happy to teach you what I've learned over many years." Then I'd leave it at that. She may not even want to save, invest, or FIRE. But she may take you up on the offer. And if you're not bailing her out financially, enabling the latte factor, then at some point she may get tired of stressing about finances and running the rat race and desire saving/investing/FIRE as a goal.
This! 100% this!

I got so fed up with my parents' nagging that I basically didn't speak to them for a few years.

I definitely agree with this, but I think there can be a healthy amount of teaching/mentorship mixed in with mutual respect/trust - they are not mutually exclusive. But the child has to learn to want that mentorship, especially at that age.

joonifloofeefloo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5739
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 04:49:06 PM »
...I think there can be a healthy amount of teaching/mentorship mixed in with mutual respect/trust - they are not mutually exclusive. But the child has to learn to want that mentorship, especially at that age.

Agreed on all counts.

Also, nagging is distinct from mentoring. It's a completely different activity. I would venture that lots of us parents would do well to learn the latter in time :)

ROF Expat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 52
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 07:18:07 AM »
I wouldn't incentivize or push unless it seems that your daughter is ready to read the book and seriously consider the message.  When she graduates, moves out of your house, and has to live on her own salary for a while, she might become more interested in personal finance.  That would be a good time for you to offer her that book and maybe some others (I'm a fan of The Millionaire Next Door).  There's also a chance that she will get herself into some financial trouble by not living within her means.  In that case, if she comes to you for financial help, I'd make reading some of these books part of the price of my help in bailing her out.  The most important thing you can do is continue to set a good example of financial literacy and responsibility.   

Chesleygirl

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 642
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 09:11:21 AM »
I believe someone  must be motivated on their own first.

I've been trying to get a friend to read books like "Your Money or Your Life", for years now. She isn't motivated to save or invest, and I finally gave up. When she gets money, she spends it or gives it to someone who needs it. I can't change her fundamental, core values about money. Most of it came from seeing the way her parents handled money, too.

bridget

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 533
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 09:17:55 AM »
You have led the horse to water. If you try to force her to drink, she’ll probably just resentfully choke on it.

NeonPegasus

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Metro Atlanta, GA
    • Neon Pegasus
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 09:39:56 AM »
When it comes to being a parent of adult children the cake has been baked, so to speak. The time for strong arming and cajoling has past, and the relationship transitions from parent-child to peer-peer based on mutual respect -- otherwise your kids will keep acting/thinking like dependants or, if they are strong willed, they will distance themselves from you.

I would not nag or incentivise, which is patronizing. I would share something like "I've managed and invested my money well, which has enabled me to achieve financial freedom and retire early. If you're ever curious to learn how to do this please let me know, I'd be more than happy to teach you what I've learned over many years." Then I'd leave it at that. She may not even want to save, invest, or FIRE. But she may take you up on the offer. And if you're not bailing her out financially, enabling the latte factor, then at some point she may get tired of stressing about finances and running the rat race and desire saving/investing/FIRE as a goal.

Yes. This.

Hopefully, you have been having financial conversations with her for many years now. Any future efforts should be aimed at providing guidance, not forcing her down the path.

If I were your daughter, I probably wouldn't have picked up the book yet either. I wouldn't be ready to read it until I had a real job with real money where I could set a budget because I learn best by being able to apply the information immediately to my situation.

To continue guiding her, I would identify opportunities as they occur and focus on small parts at a time. For instance, when your daughter gets her first "real" job after graduation, congratulate her and then give her a quick primer on what paperwork they'll present her with and how you recommend she handles it - things like having her pick a high deductible health insurance policy and why or automatically signing up for 401k contributions so she never gets used to having that money in her paycheck.

You will have to strike a good balance based on your daughter's strengths and personality. No matter what, though, she is an adult and should be treated as such.

acroy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1704
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Dallas TX
    • SWAMI
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 09:49:48 AM »
O hell no. A 20yr old is an adult.

CNM

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 372
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 10:17:53 AM »
I wouldn't give a cash reward for reading the book.  What might work better is to see if your daughter wants to do a book club WITH YOU, where you all both discuss the pros and cons of the approaches in the book.  I know that I would have been more likely to do something like that at age 20 than have my parent push a book on me or demand I read something.  It's the difference between being vested in something together versus being bossed around.

Also, I have not read The Automatic Millionaire so I could be off base here, but it might be more interesting for her to read a collection of anecdotes like The Millionaire Next Door rather than a straight up "how to" finance book.

Finally, when I was in college, my parents did this awesome thing.  They gave me a small amount of money to open up an online brokerage account.  (At that time, this was a brand new technology! Trade fees were only $5.) I think it was a few hundred dollars, and they might have given me $50 here or there for it.  I researched my own stocks and funds, and bought and sold as I saw fit.  My parents didn't interfere at all- I could earn or lose money completely on my own.  It really took the fear out of investing for me. 

Also, when I graduated from college, my parents bought me a (modest) car.  The deal was that I would make monthly "car payments" into my Roth IRA (which was also online and self-directed).  This also worked really well-- I was able to save up a lot of money this way, learn the investment ropes, and understand investment vehicles at a young age. 

Yes, I realize that the above 2 suggestions re. giving cash for investment comes from being lucky to be the child of parents who did such things.  But if you're able to do it, even with relatively modest sums of money, that might be a very good way to educate your daughter about stuff by having her actually DO IT rather than only read about it.

Livingthedream55

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 12:44:44 PM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job). 

rubybeth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1327
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 06:39:30 AM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job).

That's an incredibly incentive! My parents did a similar thing by paying for state college tuition as long as I lived at home.

Livingthedream55

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 07:04:54 AM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job).

That's an incredibly incentive! My parents did a similar thing by paying for state college tuition as long as I lived at home.

Doing that also!  : 0 )

rubybeth

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1327
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 07:55:57 AM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job).

That's an incredibly incentive! My parents did a similar thing by paying for state college tuition as long as I lived at home.

Doing that also!  : 0 )

Awesome! Part of me wonders if something a little more geared for your daughter's age would appeal to her. I subscribe to the Financial Diet on YouTube and they also have a blog. They do posts that are pretty relevant for young female professionals starting out (how to look stylish and professional on a budget, and impulse buys vs. genuine wants are two most recent blog posts), and they are two women in their 20s who share a lot of helpful financial and life info. You could simply send her the links and say another young woman (me!) mentioned that it's a handy resource. :D

https://www.youtube.com/thefinancialdiet
http://thefinancialdiet.com/

Livingthedream55

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 12:58:10 PM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job).

That's an incredibly incentive! My parents did a similar thing by paying for state college tuition as long as I lived at home.

Doing that also!  : 0 )

Awesome! Part of me wonders if something a little more geared for your daughter's age would appeal to her. I subscribe to the Financial Diet on YouTube and they also have a blog. They do posts that are pretty relevant for young female professionals starting out (how to look stylish and professional on a budget, and impulse buys vs. genuine wants are two most recent blog posts), and they are two women in their 20s who share a lot of helpful financial and life info. You could simply send her the links and say another young woman (me!) mentioned that it's a handy resource. :D

https://www.youtube.com/thefinancialdiet
http://thefinancialdiet.com/

Just did!  I'll let you know if she has any response/feedback!  : 0 )

ManlyFather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • Manly Father
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2017, 04:57:28 PM »
I have an almost-18 year old in college, and a 15 year old.   An 18 year old without latte money is also feeling pretty on top of the world, BTW.

What works best is if I say -- tomorrow after dinner, we are going to sit down and talk about the first three chapters of the book.
Then when dinner is over, I say .. "It's time to review those book chapters.   Do you want me to finish cleaning up for you so you can scan get the book before we sit down with dessert to discuss it?"

Not really nagging, more of a "It's time to begin"; coupled with doing it together, and I "give a little" by helping them with chores to open up their ability to do it.   My kids are not planners.  They have told me they prefer this approach to remembering all on their own (another problem for another day).

Yesterday, I knew that DD had not submitted her health claim form yet.  I asked she wanted my help, she said yes... then then next day I said " It's time to do this, grab your receipts and laptop and meet me in the kitchen".   If I waited for her to initiate, it would never happen, even though it is $170 worth of money back to her pocket.

Asking them to do something, paying them, or bribing them (if this then that), doesn't work at all with my kids.

Yep, it is telling them what to do.

+1

This is how you get kids to do stuff they don't want to do, but you know they NEED to do. 

Carrot vs. stick is not the only way to get someone to do something, and Goldilocks hit the nail on the head with this one.

snacky

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7433
  • Location: Hoth
  • Forum Dignitary
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 08:00:09 PM »
I would give the kid this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2052814389/get-your-money-together-your-purr-fect-finance-wor
(Made by a treasured member of this very forum!)

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3486
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2017, 08:14:27 AM »
Pay her?  No. 
Offer her the book, offer to discuss with her?  Yes. 

What we did to help our kids transition from college /our dime to making their own way:

- We set a good example for their entire lives.  We let them know we were saving, talked about investing and smart shopping frequently. 
- As college graduation approached for our oldest, we were very clear on exactly what we would do:  She was /is always welcome to come home ... her car was hers free and clear ... her car insurance was paid through X month, and after that she'd need to be prepared to pay X amount ... we'd pay her phone through the end of the year, and after that she was free to stay on our group plan, but she'd need to pay 1/4 of the cost.  I think being very clear on her financial expectations helped her.
- We sat with her as she made pro-and-con lists for her various job offers.  She didn't take the job I thought was best, but it's turned out well. 
- We strongly recommended that she NOT trade in her paid-for car.  It's nothing special, but it's safe and reliable.  She chose to start a small, separate account into which she pays a "car payment" ... she uses it for her once-a-year car insurance and it will be for her next car. 
- She began working in her field about a month after college graduation, and she asked our advice about 401Ks, etc.  We let her know we were very willing to help her with those initial decisions.  Now, 18 months into her job, she understands everything ... but we've let her know we're always here with the voice of experience. 

« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 08:22:28 AM by MrsPete »

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 10:00:21 AM »
Pay her?  No. 
Offer her the book, offer to discuss with her?  Yes. 

What we did to help our kids transition from college /our dime to making their own way:

- We set a good example for their entire lives.  We let them know we were saving, talked about investing and smart shopping frequently. 
- As college graduation approached for our oldest, we were very clear on exactly what we would do:  She was /is always welcome to come home ... her car was hers free and clear ... her car insurance was paid through X month, and after that she'd need to be prepared to pay X amount ... we'd pay her phone through the end of the year, and after that she was free to stay on our group plan, but she'd need to pay 1/4 of the cost.  I think being very clear on her financial expectations helped her.
- We sat with her as she made pro-and-con lists for her various job offers.  She didn't take the job I thought was best, but it's turned out well. 
- We strongly recommended that she NOT trade in her paid-for car.  It's nothing special, but it's safe and reliable.  She chose to start a small, separate account into which she pays a "car payment" ... she uses it for her once-a-year car insurance and it will be for her next car. 
- She began working in her field about a month after college graduation, and she asked our advice about 401Ks, etc.  We let her know we were very willing to help her with those initial decisions.  Now, 18 months into her job, she understands everything ... but we've let her know we're always here with the voice of experience.

Nicely done, thanks for sharing. You make a good point: it's a process rather than a point in time event.

Jessica J. Babbitt

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2017, 10:02:35 AM »
I wouldn't agree with paying for reading it as she old enough to understand the benefits of reading such books. It is about finding interest at what you are learning. May be you can offer her other books that would teach her about building a business career and match her passion in the same time.

soccerluvof4

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3369
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2017, 01:04:00 PM »
Not a chance! do that and she will play you for the next thing you would like her to do. Manipulation at its finest.  Being the best example you can be and voicing how you feel about things is the best you can do and hope eventually they fall in line. I believe it good to say " Its my job as your parent to tell you what I feel is right or what Is my opinion so someday you cant ever say you wish I would of told you my opinions. 

Shane

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
  • Location: Independent
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2017, 01:59:17 PM »
Thanks! Lots of very helpful input here. I am going to let this go and take no action on the book idea.

I think (when the time comes) I will offer the same deal that I offered her older sister (no charge for rent at home if daughter saves at least 10% in a 401K once she gets her first professional job).

This seems like a good idea, but I think 10% is too little. I'd push her to save at least 20%, and also teach her to put all raises she gets into savings instead of lifestyle inflation. If she gets a 5% COL raise after the first year, increase savings from 20% to 25%, and keep doing that until her savings rate is at least 50%, which is the only way to become FI in any reasonable amount of time. At only a 10% savings rate, she'll have to keep working till she's 60+.

We're teaching our 9 year old daughter to save 50% of everything she earns. Right now, her "earnings" are fairly small, mostly just her $10/week allowance. But, she seems really proud that her savings account has >$1400 in it, and she likes the fact that the bank pays her interest every month. So far, she's never questioned why she "has" to save 50% of her income. That's just how we set it up in the beginning, and it's what she's become used to. Our daughter knows the reason my wife and I don't have to work at jobs anymore is because we always saved and invested 50%+ of our income while we were working. We're hoping our example will motivate our daughter to want to do the same for herself when she becomes an adult, but it's up to her.

Shane

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 806
  • Location: Independent
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2017, 02:11:57 PM »
@Livingthedream55, you may find this post on jlcollinsnh's blog interesting and applicable to your current situation, and maybe you could share this post with your daughter. It's advice Jim Collins gave his daughter a year before she graduated form college. Since Jim's blog post is shorter than a book, it may be easier to get your daughter to actually read it. If you sit down and discuss the blog post with her afterwards, you'll be sure she read it and also get to see what she thought of it. Good luck!

Livingthedream55

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
  • Location: Massachusetts, USA
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2017, 07:29:54 AM »
@Livingthedream55, you may find this post on jlcollinsnh's blog interesting and applicable to your current situation, and maybe you could share this post with your daughter. It's advice Jim Collins gave his daughter a year before she graduated form college. Since Jim's blog post is shorter than a book, it may be easier to get your daughter to actually read it. If you sit down and discuss the blog post with her afterwards, you'll be sure she read it and also get to see what she thought of it. Good luck!

Thank you Shane! I'll give it a try!

narrative

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Location: Longmont, CO
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2018, 01:37:00 PM »

That's an incredibly incentive! My parents did a similar thing by paying for state college tuition as long as I lived at home.

Doing that also!  : 0 )

So, my two cents here.

Set a date and take her out for dinner, or any place/activity that will give you one-on-one time. It isn't about nagging, but more about sparking interest. Lead with a catchy question that will spark her interest - you know her best - about what she wants from her future and what you want for her as well. Make sure it is an adult-to-adult convo. Let her know the decisions are hers and that you just want her to have the "secret" knowledge to help her get ahead.

Synthesize the book for her - hit the high points. Pick three things you would be happiest to have her take away from the book and fill her in on them. Then "gamify" it, like others have said. Leave it as "Hey, this is up to you. I'd love to help you get started and I will do X for you to help you, if you're interested."

From what you've said you have helped pay or paid for her college. You have literally invested financially in her future. Out of respect alone it shouldn't be much to ask her to sit down and talk.

I am sure plenty of folks here with student loans would trade those in for a few hours of family conversation, nagging or otherwise. Heck, write up an invoice that shows how much your help with college has saved her for the next 10+ years and bank the conversation from there. "Without the help I gave you, you would have a student loan payment of XYZ. Since we helped save you X amount every month on that bill we'd like to see you put up a reasonable percentage of that amount (up to you) and would like to help you get started."

Make it easy, hand hold where necessary, and be firm. If you helped pay for college and/or she is living in your house you have that right.

Again, I haven't read that particular book but I think that one of the most convincing arguments for saving is a simple table that shows the time value of money. This essentially illustrates MMM's site in a nutshell. Start early and let your money work for you.



The linked image is from the book Smart Women Finish Rich by the same author.

Someone gave this book to me when I was your daughter's age. I started but never finished it. At almost 40 I finally pulled it out, read it, and kicked myself. Very hard. Don't just hand her a book. TLDR it for her.  Show her that she too can "be rich."

Again, just my two cents. Best of luck no matter what!

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3620
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »
My parents paid for me to go to university. If they had later pulled out an invoice itemising the costs and explaining how they now have an investment in my adult life, I would have taken that as a sign that we now had a business relationship rather than a family one. I would have taken that invoice, shaken their hand (business, right?) and walked out. Future contact would be me mailing them a payment plan and the monthly payments arriving in their bank account.

forever high

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2018, 11:56:16 AM »
Absolutely not. She's old enough to make her own smart (or not) decisions. Let her make her own mistakes.

narrative

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 54
  • Location: Longmont, CO
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2018, 09:03:22 AM »
My parents paid for me to go to university. If they had later pulled out an invoice itemising the costs and explaining how they now have an investment in my adult life, I would have taken that as a sign that we now had a business relationship rather than a family one. I would have taken that invoice, shaken their hand (business, right?) and walked out. Future contact would be me mailing them a payment plan and the monthly payments arriving in their bank account.

I respectfully disagree. My parents also paid for my college. I had no idea what their financial outlay was at the time, and still don't. I am almost afraid to ask. I didn't take any of it (college) very seriously, because my ass wasn't on the line. I took an extra semester because I waffled a lot and spent way too many nights at the bar playing pool. If I had been given even partial responsibility for the costs of my education I truly believe I would have been far more focused on getting *my* money's worth. Owning it. I was blissfully unaware of the costs involved with college and the value of what my parents did for me and it was to my detriment.

That said, I think my comment was misunderstood. I didn't mean to come off sounding harsh, but rather loving. My suggestion wasn't to hand her a "bill." But rather show her the money that was paid for her education so she understands the value of the gift she's been given. It isn't - "Hey, you owe us" but rather "We worked hard to afford this for you and want you to see how not having a huge student loan payment (because of our hard work) can directly affect your life in a positive way, allowing you to put money towards retirement instead of having to pay off student loans." I guess my viewpoint was to show her that she isn't "losing" spending money by saving it because student loan payments would have been a far bigger chunk out of her pocket if she had them.

As parents we all "invest" in our children's future with every decision we make, rule we enforce, praise we give. The returns aren't financial. My parents (and likely OP) didn't pay for college because they thought I would make them money, but because they wanted to see me succeed. Their dividends were my happiness and my productive, successful future.

If you have gone to the extent of paying for (or helping pay for college), taking an hour to start a conversation to help give direction for your child's positive financial future seems like small potatoes. She might be busy finishing college, etc. Giving a quick review of the main points of the book and hand holding might go much farther than you think.

I know that my parents did what they thought was right at the time, but you can be rest assured that my kids will not even apply to college without understanding upfront the financial outlay and discussing the value of that investment compared to their other education and career options. We will help where we can, but they need to "own" it and be responsible for the decisions that define their future.

I suppose the reality is that it needs to start long before college graduation. My kids are 9 and 10 and they shop with us and we talk prices, savings, coupons, wants vs. needs. We talk about saving money and letting it grow, that the less you spend the more you get to keep. All of that is building a foundation (hopefully!) that will be the base for bigger finance conversations going forward. If none of that happens, I sure as heck wouldn't expect to throw a book at them in their last year of college and when they aren't interested throw my hands up. (Not suggesting that's what the OP did, but I find myself wondering how many of the "let her make her own mistakes" folks here have kids.)

Again, my two cents. I know we all have different life experiences and viewpoints. Happy Friday!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:05:00 AM by narrative »

ManlyFather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • Manly Father
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2018, 09:46:54 AM »
... I find myself wondering how many of the "let her make her own mistakes" folks here have kids.

No good parent would ever "let her make her own mistakes" by making huge and horrible financial decisions.  Folks that recommend this either don't have kids, or are shitty parents.

gaja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 984
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2018, 10:58:14 AM »
My parents paid for me to go to university. If they had later pulled out an invoice itemising the costs and explaining how they now have an investment in my adult life, I would have taken that as a sign that we now had a business relationship rather than a family one. I would have taken that invoice, shaken their hand (business, right?) and walked out. Future contact would be me mailing them a payment plan and the monthly payments arriving in their bank account.

I suppose the reality is that it needs to start long before college graduation. My kids are 9 and 10 and they shop with us and we talk prices, savings, coupons, wants vs. needs. We talk about saving money and letting it grow, that the less you spend the more you get to keep. All of that is building a foundation (hopefully!) that will be the base for bigger finance conversations going forward. If none of that happens, I sure as heck wouldn't expect to throw a book at them in their last year of college and when they aren't interested throw my hands up. (Not suggesting that's what the OP did, but I find myself wondering how many of the "let her make her own mistakes" folks here have kids.)

My two are about the same age as your; 10 & 11. But I also have experience helping to raise older kids (15-19). As a result, I spend a lot of time and energy teaching my kids everything they need to know as adults now, because now is the age they are willing to listen. I 100% agree with shelivesthedream in her reaction to your suggestion. When my kids turn 18, they will be allowed to flee the nest, with no strings attached. If we pay anything towards their higher education or first adult years, it will be given as gifts, again with no strings attached. If they choose to ask for my advice, I will always be there for them. But I have seen what happens if you try to force teenagers/young adults to do what you think is smart, and it does not turn out well. If you try to guilt them into anything, it turns out even worse, it just takes a longer time before SHTF.

If my kids at age 18 have the opportunity to do something economically stupid, and choose not to ask me for advice, I see no point in trying to force my advice on them. They will probably just buckle down and double the stupidity. Hopefully the lessons they learn now will help prevent some stupidity, and hopefully our relationship has matured nicely so they see me as someone they can use for advice and help even after they are adults.

A different part of the issue is that I want my kids to fail. The earlier they experience small failures, the earlier they will start developing tools to deal with them, and correct them. I could wrap them in cotton wool and protect them until I die, but that would just make them fail much harder after I'm gone. Age 18 to 20 is an excellent time to make wrong financial decisions; they are rarely large enough to impact you for life, and you have plenty of time to correct them.

ManlyFather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • Manly Father
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2018, 11:32:21 AM »
Age 18 to 20 is an excellent time to make wrong financial decisions; they are rarely large enough to impact you for life, and you have plenty of time to correct them.

You should Google search "student loans"

gaja

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 984
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2018, 12:01:06 PM »
Age 18 to 20 is an excellent time to make wrong financial decisions; they are rarely large enough to impact you for life, and you have plenty of time to correct them.

You should Google search "student loans"

If my kids are not able to avoid bad loans when they are 18, it is too late for me to make them avoid it. It will probably be too late to make them do anything when they turn 16, except for the stuff we can controll by legal means. After they turn 18, they are, and should be, independent beings.

Also, I live in Norway. Our student loans are different from the US ones. https://www.lanekassen.no/nb-NO/Languages/About-the-Norwegian-State-Educational-Loan-Fund-/
-They are a combination of loans and grants
-They only need to cover living expences, since our universities don't have tuition fees, so the total loan for a 5-6 year degree rarely exceeds $40k. If you fail a lot of exams for 7 years (maximum time to get loans), you could be able to reach 70k. But it wouldn't be easy, since you would have to do 7 years of courses on masters or below. PhDs get salaries.
-If your income is low, you don't have to pay back the loan or interests. You can also get parts of the loan forgiven if you move to the far north and/or work as a teacher.
-The interest is currently 2.168%

ManlyFather

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 79
    • Manly Father
Re: Would you pay a 20 year old to read a book?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2018, 01:16:56 PM »
Age 18 to 20 is an excellent time to make wrong financial decisions; they are rarely large enough to impact you for life, and you have plenty of time to correct them.

You should Google search "student loans"

If my kids are not able to avoid bad loans when they are 18, it is too late for me to make them avoid it. It will probably be too late to make them do anything when they turn 16, except for the stuff we can controll by legal means. After they turn 18, they are, and should be, independent beings.

Also, I live in Norway. Our student loans are different from the US ones. https://www.lanekassen.no/nb-NO/Languages/About-the-Norwegian-State-Educational-Loan-Fund-/
-They are a combination of loans and grants
-They only need to cover living expences, since our universities don't have tuition fees, so the total loan for a 5-6 year degree rarely exceeds $40k. If you fail a lot of exams for 7 years (maximum time to get loans), you could be able to reach 70k. But it wouldn't be easy, since you would have to do 7 years of courses on masters or below. PhDs get salaries.
-If your income is low, you don't have to pay back the loan or interests. You can also get parts of the loan forgiven if you move to the far north and/or work as a teacher.
-The interest is currently 2.168%

You're government sounds cool - they effectively prevent young people from dooming their future financial selves.  In my country, young people are preyed upon by universities and financial institutions - there is not government "parenting."  Perhaps the politicians in my country could learn a thing or two from yours.