Sleepover/residential summer camps - OUCH!

[elaine amj]

I have been looking at prices and here in Ontario, "cheap" camps are $400-600!! That's per kid! Huge ouch!

I have always wanted to send my kids to summer camps. I grew up in Malaysia - and because it is not a popular thing there, I romanticized it a little. My parents did send me about every 1-2 years to a 2-3 night weekend camp (usually focused on study pr leadership skills as that is what parents look for there). I absolutely loved every camp I attended and had a fabulous time.

Fast forward to moving to Canada and most ppl I met attended various summer camps growing up and all had positive things to say. When I had my kids, I always said I intended them to go to summer camps.

When they got old enough, I sent them to a local camp for a week. $200 each so $400 total...that hurt. The next few years I wanted to continue sending them but DH vetoed it since we had started increasing our family travels and he said he preferred for us to spend the money for family trips. Kids were fine with it.

Fast forward to this year, kids are now almost 13 and 14 and getting completely bored with staying home all summer since DH and I both work. We do have a week's vacation + 1 weekend trip this summer planned. But otherwise, not as much travel as normal (normal is almost every weekend). So we would really like to put them in a summer camp. DD in particular would love it as she has had a tough time making friends and pretty much will spend the whole summer playing games on her iPhone and on Instagram.

But $400-600 x 2 is a lot of money. We could do daycamp, but that's a totally different experience and I am not as interested in that for them. Prices have gone up because camps are now showing the "true" cost of camp and then offering various financial subsidies.  I do not feel comfortable asking for financial assistance of any kind since we can well afford it.

We're debating sending both kids to cadets primarily because they get to do so much (including summer camps) at no cost. I just worry that they might not fit in since none of us have anything to do with the military.

Anyone else send their kids to summer camps?

[bogart]

I have been looking at prices and here in Ontario, "cheap" camps are $400-600!! That's per kid! Huge ouch!

...

I do not feel comfortable asking for financial assistance of any kind since we can well afford it.

Anyone else send their kids to summer camps?

I can't speak to that age except from my memory of my own childhood (and in a planning sense, my kid is currently in 2nd grade), and I have just one kid so -- easy for me to say.  But we are certainly looking forward to this, indeed, he's tremendously excited that one of his day camps includes a (single night's) sleepover starting this year.

Honestly, if I could do one thing differently about his childhood to date, it would be to spend more on programs/activities/camps.  We've got great ones around us, and DS loves them and they provide types and intensities of activities that DH and I will never offer (though DH is RE, and we do all enjoy travelling together also, or doing stuff around town.  But still.).  DS being an only (not an issue for you) only augments this for us.  Looking back, I wish I'd spent more sooner.

Personally I'd say do it (and we plan to do it).  Given that you say you can well afford it, and you (and your kids) want to -- what's money for, if not the activities we enjoy?

[Gin1984]

I did summer camp, both overnight and day camp and I disagree that you can't get much of the experience of overnight camps in the day camp.  However, my day camps did overnight camp outs (Thursday-Friday) every other week so ymmv.  I think a mixture of the camps may help but they are pretty old for them, at least the day camps.  Most of us, by that age knew each other for years and for a shy kid that may be hard.  This was even more true in the overnight camps, though the groups did often intersect.

[scrubbyfish]

Yep, expensive.

I hated sleepaway camp, but my son LOVES it, so he has gone for two five-night camps and two two-night camps over the last two years. There is little to nothing my son loves more than sleepaway camp -crappy food morning to night, endless people to be with every second, games, and activities like archery and canoeing. Because he has identified this as a top priority, I'm willing to spend on it. BUT, I spend very little on non-essential activities or stuff for him throughout the year. I set an annual "luxuries" budget and whatever uses it up, uses it up. He chooses camp over miniature yogurts, ice cream, movies...

Because of bullying at the 5-night camps, though, we're switching to one that can support him better, and his special needs funding will actually cover the cost.

Another family I know has their kids save up for half of the kids' preferred expensive camps, and the kids pay for the rest. The kids save from gifts from grandparents, selling their toys, etc.

I wouldn't spend on it just to circumvent boredom, though. I'd only do it if this is a kid's absolute favourite thing to do, such that he's willing to decline all sorts of other things in a year. If boredom is an issue, I'd have them get jobs, find a hobby, find ways to nurture their imagination, get them gaga over books.

At 14, I was babysitting 30+ hours per week through the summers.

[Bob W]

Cub scout camp is $600 here.  They sleep in tents.  Crazy!

[scrubbyfish]

Cub scout camp is $600 here.  They sleep in tents.  Crazy!

...and the worst experiences we've had, for bullying, lack of care, poor nutrition, etc.

[okonomiyaki]

One solution for boredom that doesn't involve spending money (and teaches your children valuable skills in the process) is volunteering - look around if there are age-appropriate opportunities in your city to help out at a nursing home/garden/museum/library...

I helped out at a nursing home from age 12 *, then a museum and library when I turned 16 (we weren't well off, and my parents wanted me to get out of the house and interacting with people; there were no iPhones in those days, so I would spend my summer vacation days curled up with a book). In retrospect, it was one of the most rewarding activities of my life - the skills you learn interacting with people to get things done are amazing, especially since you get to be responsible for something completely independent of your parents.

Supervised play in a natural environment - again in retrospect - would have likely been much less beneficial.

* This actually involved just hanging out, playing games and chatting with the older people - nothing physically demanding or anything like that.

[MayDay]

I actually think 400-500 a week sounds pretty reasonable. 

Compared to day camp @150 a week they have to provide a lot more.

Girl scout camp was one of the best experiences of my childhood. 25 years ago it was 200$/week.

[elaine amj]

My DD would actually love to volunteer - but not a lot of opportunities around here that we've come into contact with. That said, I used to work in nonprofits and frankly, unless a parent comes with...nobody wants to babysit a young teen volunteer. I'm going to have to get more proactive in hunting down volunteer opportunities for her. I'm hoping she will have more access to activities that interest her once she starts high school in September. She would like to work but not much luck finding babysitting jobs or the like. We don't have any friends, etc who needs a sitter at this point. Our neighborhood is filled with stay at home moms/relatives close by so very little opportunity to babysit. Ha ha - sounds rather complainypants. We'll work on this.

I'm still debating the summer camp thing since I do feel they would really enjoy it. I started rationalizing it as not that bad when you compare the cost to a nice family vacation. That said we have our vacation plans for the year already set and this would be on top of that since DH is absolutely not willing to cut back on our family vacations for this (He never did sleepover camps until he met me in university). DH got a new job last year with a hefty raise so lifestyle inflation has already been creeping in. This would be another bit of inflation.

I did find one 4 hours away for about $200 each that sounds good. DH thinks I'm  nuts for considering driving 4 hours there to drop them off and then another 4 hours to pick them up (I would have to take a 1/2 day off from work since pickup is Friday at 5pm). By the way - who on earth thought it was a good idea for sleepover camps to end on Fridays at 2pm? Does everyone who sends their kids have a stay at home parent to handle pickups?

She actually spends little to nothing all year long so I feel rather guilty. My son does travel soccer (I do get a hefty discount since I sit on the board and spend endless hours in boring meetings) and has had a tutor on and off for many years. She goes to school and comes home, has no interest in shopping, etc.

[Gin1984]

My DD would actually love to volunteer - but not a lot of opportunities around here that we've come into contact with. That said, I used to work in nonprofits and frankly, unless a parent comes with...nobody wants to babysit a young teen volunteer. I'm going to have to get more proactive in hunting down volunteer opportunities for her. I'm hoping she will have more access to activities that interest her once she starts high school in September. She would like to work but not much luck finding babysitting jobs or the like. We don't have any friends, etc who needs a sitter at this point. Our neighborhood is filled with stay at home moms/relatives close by so very little opportunity to babysit. Ha ha - sounds rather complainypants. We'll work on this.

I'm still debating the summer camp thing since I do feel they would really enjoy it. I started rationalizing it as not that bad when you compare the cost to a nice family vacation. That said we have our vacation plans for the year already set and this would be on top of that since DH is absolutely not willing to cut back on our family vacations for this (He never did sleepover camps until he met me in university). DH got a new job last year with a hefty raise so lifestyle inflation has already been creeping in. This would be another bit of inflation.

I did find one 4 hours away for about $200 each that sounds good. DH thinks I'm  nuts for considering driving 4 hours there to drop them off and then another 4 hours to pick them up (I would have to take a 1/2 day off from work since pickup is Friday at 5pm). By the way - who on earth thought it was a good idea for sleepover camps to end on Fridays at 2pm? Does everyone who sends their kids have a stay at home parent to handle pickups?

She actually spends little to nothing all year long so I feel rather guilty. My son does travel soccer (I do get a hefty discount since I sit on the board and spend endless hours in boring meetings) and has had a tutor on and off for many years. She goes to school and comes home, has no interest in shopping, etc.

Uh, we were required to volunteer in high school and thought the other school which allowed for summer volunteering, was super nice to their students.  Maybe instead of finding her places to volunteer at, you require her to show initiative and find them herself.

[scrubbyfish]

She actually spends little to nothing all year long [...] She goes to school and comes home, has no interest in shopping, etc.

Well, like I said earlier, in that case (i.e., this is her top favourite thing, and she's willing to forgo other stuff in favour of it), I would be willing to send her...
Except that at ages 12-14, I really believe people should be moving to contribution, not being entertained.

Here are the volunteer or paid jobs my tribe had as young teens:

• babysitting
• flyer delivery
• leading singalongs, or crafts, or playing an instrument in old age homes
• amateur manicures for people in old age homes
• leading at summer camps (a free way to go, while building skills)
• tutoring younger kids, or ESL students
• lawn mowing and yard care, especially for elderly, etc
• visiting people who were elderly or who were housebound with disabilities (play cards, etc)
• petsitting
• delivering prescriptions (from pharmacy to homes)
• helping at the animal shelter
• helping with local rec programs for younger kids
• lifeguarding

None were directly supervised/babysat.

[DecD]

I went to Girl Scout summer camp as a kid.  Every summer starting after 4th grade.  For a week at first, for two weeks when I was older.  It was reasonably priced- my family was not wealthy.  Loved it more than anything in the world. :)

Anyway, my advice would be to look at scout camps.  They may be more reasonably priced than some.

[scrubbyfish]

Anyway, my advice would be to look at scout camps.

I don't know what it was like when we were all kids (I went to a non-Scouts camp), but I am very wary of Scouts camps now. I trained as a leader quite recently, and was APPALLED by...everything. Things we were taught, what I witnessed, what I heard about. And my son had awful experiences in the camp. If it was good before, I wonder if it has gone downhill?

In any case, if you send your kids to camp, get lots of kid and parent references -especially where the kids have similar personalities/interests/quirks to your kids- and don't rely on reviews/marketing by a camp's admin/leaders.

I do wonder if camps are now one of those "you get what you pay for" type things.

[bogart]

Anyway, my advice would be to look at scout camps.

I don't know what it was like when we were all kids (I went to a non-Scouts camp), but I am very wary of Scouts camps now. I trained as a leader quite recently, and was APPALLED by...everything. Things we were taught, what I witnessed, what I heard about. And my son had awful experiences in the camp.

I'm under the impression that at least in the US, Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are entirely separate organizations with separate leaderships and policies, and I assume separate camps.  I can't speak to Canada (or elsewhere).  But my guess is that comparing the experience of a boy going to scout camp (or a boy scout camp) and a girl going to scout camp (or a girl scout camp) is totally apples to oranges.

I know that we won't be involved with the Boy Scouts (camps or otherwise) until and unless the sexual orientation of members/leaders becomes a non-issue, but others may feel differently about that one.

[scrubbyfish]

I'm under the impression that at least in the US, Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are entirely separate organizations with separate leaderships and policies, and I assume separate camps.  I can't speak to Canada (or elsewhere).

Yeah, in Canada we have Girl Guides (girls only) and Scouts (boys and girls).

But my guess is that comparing the experience of a boy going to scout camp (or a boy scout camp) and a girl going to scout camp (or a girl scout camp) is totally apples to oranges.

I think it would depend very much on the training of the leaders involved. Some EXCEL at things like safety, inclusiveness, nutrition, etc. Some don't. A camp's culture will be very dependent on the quality of leadership. Scouts, Guides, non-Scouts, secular, religious, etc, I think the primary element will be the camp's leadership (from planning/programming through to ground). I've seen awesome stuff and bad stuff, and the only difference was the individual leadership (including leadership of the leaders).

I know that we won't be involved with the Boy Scouts (camps or otherwise) until and unless the sexual orientation of members/leaders becomes a non-issue, but others may feel differently about that one.

In Canada, we're all set there :)   ...but a mess on other counts!

[bogart]

I think it would depend very much on the training of the leaders involved.

Well, right, but again, in the US context there's no reason to think that the leadership of boyscout and the leadership of girlscount camps would have any connection to one another whatsoever -- thus the apples-to-oranges.  The two (national) organizations are distinct and separate, so my guess is that the camps are as well.

Whereas I'd guess that any given boyscout camp anywhere in the US *might* have (or at least be more likely to have) something in common with other US boyscout camps -- and ditto for girlscout camps (with each other).  That a bad (or good) experience at one, somewhere in the US, would have some "data" in it about the likely experience at other such camps (boyscout --> boyscout and girlscout --> girlscout) other places in the US (because there may well be common policies, training exercises, or staff within each organization -- but not between the 2). 

So for that reason, the parent of a boy (@scrubbyfish) telling the parent of a girl (the OP) about the scout camp experiences of their kid seems to me like in the US it might not be that informative.  But as I say, I know nothing about Canada!  Well, except that it's somewhere north of me ;) .  So -- carry on!

[scrubbyfish]

Whereas I'd guess that any given boyscout camp anywhere in the US *might* have (or at least be more likely to have) something in common with other US boyscout camps -- and ditto for girlscout camps (with each other).  That a bad (or good) experience at one, somewhere in the US, would have some "data" in it about the likely experience at other such camps (boyscout --> boyscout and girlscout --> girlscout) other places in the US (because there may well be common policies, training exercises, or staff within each organization -- but not between the 2).

I think I'm not saying it well...

My experience is that of parent of kid camping with various organizations, former camper with various organizations, trained and active Scout leader, and required to know and follow Guide rules as well. What I found throughout these similar but distinct scenarios over the last thirty years is this:

An organization sets policies, procedures, etc, addresses legal aspects, develops training, hires trainers.
Trainers train leaders.
Leaders are dispersed throughout the organization's regions/camps/groups.
One leader will be designated primary, and a hierarchy within the camp/group will be set.

If the primary leader is super conscientious, she will have trained well, will honour the training, and will also be very mindful of campers' needs. She will set the campers' needs as very high priority, at least as high as her own and the other leaders'.

If the primary leader is sloppy, uninterested, lazy, etc, this will show up through the entire camp atmosphere. She will violate what she was taught in the training (in which case the training is essentially moot), disregard campers' needs, and silence the leaders who speak up.

An organization's policies, country, gender-focus, etc, do not wholly impact what happens at camp-level, nor does source of funding, cost of camp, which organization is administering a camp, or which country or generation the camp is in. It will come down to whether a camp's primary leader is awesome or awful. This is what a parent needs to watch for.

[DecD]

I'm sure it is very dependent on the particular camp.

I do know that the girl scout camp I attended as a child (and then was a counselor there in college) was really quite excellent- they were sticklers for safety, everything was kept neat and clean, the kids were treated well,  the food was good, if a counselor broke rules she was booted immediately (this actually happened one year.) 

So : buyer beware.  But I'll defend Steven's Ranch to the end :)  I love that place.  Love it from the bottom of my heart!

[scrubbyfish]

Yep, after I learned the hard way to ask around (to parents, not the camps), I learned that one Scouts camp we'd used had a bad reputation per its directorship (primary leader), while one much closer had an excellent reputation per its directorship. Same org, kilometers apart, same training region, same cost... Night and day, according to others. The one director was simply conscientious and passionate about excellence. The one Scouts troupe I led was phenomenal...because our primary leaders ROCKED. Conscientious, honest, humble, on it. But families came from far and wide to ours because theirs -again, same org, same training region- were so bad.

[hunniebun]

I have very fond memories of summer camp...but to keep costs down, my parents sent to christian camps.  30 years ago...they were about 50$ for 7 days...so the costs have risen even there.  This might be worth looking into if you are at all religious or can generally overlook the religious aspects...which I remember being very minor (like grace before meals and chappel on Sunday)!
But I am sure the zealousness vary's camp by camp.  The YMCA in my city also runs a very affordable summer camp...so maybe look into that? 

[littleturkey]

Yep, sending 3 kids to camp this year.... ouch!  My kids all go to a Campfire camp.  It's just under $500 apiece for one week.

I went to a girl-scout camp and liked it.  I had to pay for it myself, and I remember getting a discount for being an actual girl-scout.

The Campfire camp I send the kids to does give discounts for registering early and having multiple kids attend.  They also allow you to make payments at any time, as long as you have the balance paid off before camp starts.

[RootofGood]

We might some day.  So far, we haven't given it a lot of thought and the kids haven't expressed a lot of interest in it.  We tend to travel a lot in the summers now that I'm ER, so there's the scheduling issue (we booked our 7 week Mexico trip last minute on a whim and had to cancel 1 week of day camp ($56) so we'll be getting a free family swim pass using that $56 refundable credit). 

We normally put the decision to the kids.  $1000 for 2 of them to attend overnight camp is about what we spend for a week of international travel (for the whole family).  So we could easily skip a week of travel and slide that money over to pay for kids summer camps.  But then there would be 1 less week of vacation. 

[Goldielocks]

I paid $400 each or so.  Faith based camps start at $350 for 5-6 days.  We just budget at the start of the year, and they do fewer school year, pricey, things, and have to babysit or deliver papers if they want something more than a local recreation class during the year.
My daughter is 15 and able to work or volunteer at the camp now in exchange for a free week.  If she wants..

It is completely worth it, IMO.

My son is 13 this year, and he joined sea cadets to get more 'free' sailing time, and will go to first general training of 2 weeks this year.  It is going to be awesome.

Try the cadets, like any group, it is all about the people at that location and their attitudes.  For us I was totally surprised to find so many ' keen' engaged teenagers in one place.  Most were high caliber students, and it is rubbing off on my son.  Also, most never go into the military or reserves, but straight to college and scholarships ( in our group).

[gaja]

We have signed DD up to a camp for deaf kids from all the Nordic countries. The most expensive part is the travel to Iceland. But it will be totally worth it if she can improve her sign language skills and get good friends from the deaf community.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I remember having an awesome time at a 4-H camp (the one in Front Royal, VA).

I was a Girl Scout and loved it, but I didn't enjoy GS camp very much for whatever reason.

Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts are 100% different and separate. Girl Scouts, for instance, do not ban gay adults or atheists.

[scrubbyfish]

...gay adults or atheists.

This, too, is region-specific. Scouts in Canada is now girls and boys, gay and non-gay, any religion or non-religion, etc. (But the org still has big problems.)

[Wannabe Mustache]

$400-600 is a pretty good price for camp.  The canoe tripping camps up here in Temagami cost a lot more.  I think camp is a worth it if you choose the right one.  The bonding and leadership that come from it are really good experiences. The time in nature is priceless, particularly if they do canoe tripping.  It really fosters an appreciation for our planet and treading lightly on the earth. 

Have you looked at YMCA camps?  I don't know if they would be less expensive.  As for the 4-hour drive, that's really not that far.

I am one for spending on experiences though so I'm not hard-core mustachian

[Wannabe Mustache]

Pine Crest YMCA camp has busing.  $650/week

[Luthien]

I don't have time to read the whole thread, and I don't know your religious beliefs, but you may want to look into camps with a religious affiliation. My kid is going to a week long Catholic girls camp this summer for only $90. There's also another coed non denominational Christian one available nearby that is about $130 for one week and $200 for two weeks. All the non religious campus I looked into were more like $400-700/week per kid. We are in Wisconsin.

[Le Poisson]

See my rant on scouting...

Another option is Cadets. Weekly meets (Usually Wednesday nights) with an option for extra nights for Band/Sailing/Glider piloting/Shooting

In the summer they have camps that range from 2 - 8 weeks in length.

Cost to you is minimal. Maybe $50 a year for corps level trips.
Kids get paid to go to camp. Usually starts at about $300 for a two week camp, goes up from there. They return home with recognized licenses and qualification for real-world use.

Information here: http://www.cadets.ca/en/

If this is something you'd like to hear more about let me know. It seems this option is often overlooked, but as a graduate of the program and currently going through to become a leader, I really wonder why more people don't take advantage of it.

Cadets treats your child like an adult with training they are marked on and expected to complete and rewards them with life experiences that would be hard to replicate elsewhere. My sea cadet summer camp career included:

2 Week Basic Training <13 yrs Old - 1986> - Kingston (Royal Military College) ON - Sailing (Tall Ship and Dinghy), Marksmanship, Marine Band Radio operator's license, Canoeing, General Seamanship (Ropework), Marine maintenance (Fibreglass/structural repair)  <----- This camp is intended as an introduction to different facets of Navy life and offers cadets a feel of different paths they can reach for in the future.

Junior Leadership <14 yrs old - 1987> - Comox BC - Expedition Sailing (Whaler Sailing, Schooner Sailing)/Coastal Pilotage, Marine Rescue Training, Marine Survival, Mountain Trekking, Mountain Survival, Confidence Course, Advanced Seamanship, Advanced Physical Fitness <----- This camp is extremely difficult - it is no longer offered. It pushes kids to see how far they can go without breaking by putting them in real-life situations and encourages them to work out their own solutions. I came out of this knowing I could handle anything life throws at me.

Marine Engineering <15 yrs old - 1988> - Victoria (CFB Esquimalt) BC - Advanced pilotage, Diesel Engine mechanics, Diesel Generator mainenance/mechanics, Shipboard systems (water/heat/cooking), Firefighting, Marine Damage Control, Extended Sea Phase (2 weeks spent cruising the straits of Juan de Fuca) <----- I came away from this course with an apprentice's ticket as a marine engineer. As in if I wanted to I could quit school, jump on a boat up to 250 feet (IIRC) and start working. At the time I didn't have a driver's license, but I could man a ship - alone. Anywhere. Crazy! Oh, and steaming through the straights on a sunny day with the diesel thumping away below was magical.

Absolutely miserable summer spent working in my Dad's grocery store as we watched it go bankrupt <16 yrs old - 1989> - Gawd I hated that summer.

Cadet Staff - Supply/Logistics - <17 yrs old - 1990> Kingston (Royal Military College) ON - Spent the summer employed by the camp outfitting new arrivals and returning used gear to inventory.  <---- This was a party summer. I was asked to return for a second year to head up supply, but I declined since real life was calling. I think I came home with over $1,000 from this camp. It was a really good summer.

When I came out of cadets, it was easy to apply the learning I had there to an engineering environment, and I had a very strong resume to support my goals. Plus, I had been paid to get all this. Really I don't understand why we struggle to keep the program afloat.

<Edited for camp details>

[scrubbyfish]

Another option is Cadets. [...] I really wonder why more people don't take advantage of it.

In good part because of your notes, Prospector, as well as because of a recent brochure and conversation, I might look into Cadets at some point for my kid.

I think the reason lots of people don't (and a reason I previously wouldn't have) is because a lot of us associate it with army stuff, and aim to steer clear of that. However, the brochure I read and conversation I had a couple of weeks ago assured me that involvement in cadets doesn't need to lead to involvement in the army. Probably a widespread misunderstanding (based on the brochure's direct response to the idea). I'm also not a fan of teaching a kid nationalism, obedience above all, tradition, etc, thus struggle with programs -including Scouts- that lean this way. But I'll be looking into it (so, thanks!).

[Le Poisson]

Hi Scrubby (love your name)

I tried to enlist when I was 18 thinking the reserves would be a good career start. They wouldn't take me. :( 

Blind nationalism, and order taking are kindof a mixed bag. A lot of the kids I was hanging out with in the late 80's/early 90's wore torn jeans and mohawks. But at Cadets, they were the exemplary ones, and the officers we had both at camp and at the corps were great at pulling these neo-nazi wannabes into line. I remember one week when our commanding officer told the band to stand down and had us do the march past to some Dead Kenedys/Forgotten Rebels tune. afterwards he pointed out that the cadence was 120 beats per minute, the same as military band music. Next thing you know we had a corps level band consisting of skinheads playing the tuba. And yes there is drill. And most kids start off hating drill, but end loving it. (I still slow march if I'm alone and pacing sometimes - its tricky to get your foot hovering above the ground just right, not a skill I want to lose.)

So I mean is there room for individual expression and thought - yeah, but when you are on the drill square, you are a machine, and if an officer says jump, you only ask "How high, Sir!" But that discipline is a damned good thing in a world of whiny kids who are quick to say why they can't rather than ask how they will do something. And in cadets, you are very much expected to solve your own problems. They will give you the tools and instruction, but after that, its up to you.

Also, in Cadets a kid starts at 12-1/2 with no rank as a new recruit. Within 6 months they get their first rank. By the time they are 16 they will be responsible for a division (about 6 - 12 kids). With that comes both authority and responsibility. So they will have to ask kids why their uniforms aren't pressed or why they got to the meeting late, but they will also have to report on it, and take steps to support the kids who are struggling. By the time a kid is 18 or 19, they could be responsible for the entire corps, having risen through the ranks, and will be reporting on the divisional leaders and so on. At that point the only person who has authority over them in the corps is the commanding officer, but they are responsible for all the kids - and often called on to assist the divisional leaders etc. down the chain of command. That taste of leadership and the responsibility that comes with it sets up a template for a lot of good things later in life.

You mention army - and army Cadets offer great things, I just happen to have been in Sea Cadets. There is also Air Cadets. Each elements has its strengths. I think Army Cadet corps are most prolific, then Air, and finally Sea. I would guess that Air Cadets has highest enrollment though since everyone wants to get a pilot's license on the cheap. (Chris Hadfield was an air cadet - it is where he started flying. Read his book, its great) This is just guessing though - I really don't know which element has the most kids or the most corps. There is a friendly rivalry between the "Guppies" in Sea Cadets, "Grunts" in Army Cadets, and "Pigeons" in air cadets. Of course the Guppies are best ;o)

Current Summer Camps available through cadets are listed here (by element): http://www.cadets.ca/en/summer-opportunities/training-courses.page

Youtube has many cadet camp videos - mostly of bands. Search HMCS Ontario, CFB Borden Cadets, HMCS Quadra, HMCS Annapolis, etc.

[scrubbyfish]

Thanks for all that, Prospector! That was great to read. It certainly spoke to me: Forgotten Rebels was my favourite band growing up! And I had a mohawk. (Though was definitely not a neo-nazi wannabe, or anywhere near that. Strongly liberal, anti-racist, pacifist.)

My kid flew (co-piloted) a small plane recently, and loved that. I bet he'd like the Hadfield book. I'm a parent that insists he have it together on many counts (nutrition, organization, bedroom floor clear, on time for appointments, contributing, etc) but like to let him relax outside of those, e.g., I don't think clothes need to be super tidy/ironed/etc and am loathe to pretend they do.

I had real difficulty with all things army until a couple of years ago when I started meeting people in the place I live now, who had been Army and shared my highest values, and quietly did things I was deeply heart-impressed by. That is to say, some of my prejudices were resolved through these individuals, such that I now see "pros and cons" vs only "cons". And my son is certainly keen on uniforms, gadgets, teams, and skills and for various reasons is vulnerable to struggles so perhaps Cadets will be a fit when he hits 12.

[MrsPotts]

I remember Camp Fire sleep away camp 45 years later.  Day camp wasn't as fun.   My baby LOVED sleep away camp.  She became noticeably more mature and independent each time she went. 

[Healthandwealth]

My kids love summer camps. Scout camps are priced reasonably here. Depending on the age of the kids € 120-250. For seven days, including transportation. They sleep in tents and sail a lot in little boats. They learn a lot on those camps.

Regular sailing camps are more expensive, over € 500 for six days. They sleep in more luxurios buildings.

[Sibley]

My mom's response to "I'm bored" was direct and simple. "Go do ___". Some sort of cleaning or other task I didn't want to do. We didn't have money for summer camps. I spent a ton of time reading, and at the library.

Unstructured time is good for people. It isn't until we get bored that we figure out how to amuse ourselves!

[elaine amj]

Thanks for bumping up this topic :)

We ended up cheaping out and not sending our kids away to camp. The cost just got to me. Plus our summer vacation to California ended up being fairly pricey ($3k for 2 weeks). And while both kids said that they would like it, neither were pushing hard for it. We took them tent camping a couple of times instead.

I finally figured that opportunities would come up at various times, especially since my DD has just entered high school. She joined the concert band and told me there is likely to be a band trip somewhere this year. Plus, she has just joined a local church's youth group and I imagine there will be opportunities to go to youth retreats at some point. So I figured I'd save the money for the more expensive activities in high school.

As for church camps, they're just as expensive as secular camps in my neck of the woods. I was surprised but there you go. As we are Christians, my preference is for a heavily religious church camp that shares our beliefs.

Two major reasons why I would still like to send my kids to residential camp:
1. I have such happy memories of the weekend camps I attended growing up - I want to give my kids the same (or better) memories
2. My DD has been having trouble making friends and I think it will broaden her and give her more opportunities. As well as foster more independence from Mom.

I will admit - I am a bit of a control freak and I'm worried now how it's affecting my daughter. It seems to be getting worse as she gets older. This summer when we would eat out, she couldn't even order her own meals - she had to ask me what she wanted to eat! (My fault - since I always strategise when I order meals for the family) Now that she is in high school, we have made her responsible for planning and prepping/packing her own lunches. DH makes her write out a lunch menu for the week so we know what to shop for. When she needed uniforms, we made her responsible for searching on Kijiji and making the initial contact with sellers.

Oh and thanks so much for the info on the cadets! I just felt so unsure about the whole thing. However, we are putting cadets on hold for now. My DD just agreed to volunteer as a leader for the church kids club she attended. Meetings are Wednesday night. I am delighted as it puts her in a leadership environment and still gives her time with other teens,.

[Gone Fishing]

The camp I went to and worked at in college has raised rates significantly over the past several years.  Used to be under $300 just a few years ago and is now pushing $500.  It was a Christian camp so we also got some help from the church, but those funds have dried up. Once FIRE I may try to swap some work for fees so my kids can go again.  Just not willing to drop $1k on a week for the kids, when I can take the whole family on a cross country 2 week camping trip for about the same money.

I know the director/board pretty well and this has been a common theme across camps.  Over the past decade, overnight summer camp attendance has dropped, so they have responded by upping the rates on those that still come to cover fixed costs. Several long standing camps have had to close due to low attendance and reduced support from denominational churches.

In lieu of overnight camp, we signed the kids up for 4-H day programs and local sport/band camps.  The costs were very reasonable averaging around $10-$20 per kid per day. 

[gaja]

The oldest went to deaf camp in Iceland this summer, and it was worth every Icelandic Króna. Her camp focused on sports, they rode horses, went swimming, kajaking, etc. But still, the girl I picked up after a week looked a lot like the kids in this video, made at a camp for deaf kids in the US:

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/deaf-teen-filmmakers-cover-phillip-phillips-home-2015179

It is difficult being the only different one. But after spending a week with lots of other kids from other countries, who are just as different as you, you can handle one more year in normal school.

I'm not sure where the camp will be next summer, or if we will go to the Nordic one or the one for all of Europe. But this expence has made it to the top of our priority list.

[Pigeon]

My kids didn't want to do camping type sleep away camps, but if they'd wanted to, I would have done it.  My bff's daughter has done Girl Scout camp every year and is now doing the junior counselor thing.  She gets a lot out of it. 

[coffeelover]

I have a daughter that just turned 19. When she was much younger I was a single mom. I qualified for help in order for my daughter to attend most camps.

I just asked my oldest did she love her time at camp, was it worth it, would she recommend her little sisters to go. My oldest said absolutely. She loved camp.

It cost me the same amount in money that I would pay out in daycare during the summer for her to go for a an overnight camp for 5 nights. Drop off was usually on a Sunday, pickup Friday around 2 to 5 pm.

We did girlscout camp at least once a summer. Another horse camp that only cost me 60 for an entire week. My daughter loves horses and learned how to ride really well over the years of attending these camps.
I also sent her of to a christian camp. She loved that one too.

It was so much easier for me and much less stressful to pack up my daughter and send her off for a week of having tons of fun and making friends. (she is still friends with a few of those girls from years ago) Then sending her to daycare every morning and pick up every evening.

Starting at the age of 5 to 6 my daughter attended at least 3 camps a summer. She attended her last camp at 15. She basically said she grew out of it, and would rather stay home. I was fine with that.

So I say go for it. Especially if you know your kids would love it.