Author Topic: Sleep help needed  (Read 16073 times)

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #150 on: December 14, 2017, 08:58:54 PM »
In our old place we rented there was no insulation nor any central heat so it got damn cold in the winter, even here in CA. I got an electric blanket and it was the most luxurious thing in the world to climb into a pre-warmed bed. so yes, I agree with you. My challenge is keeping the baby warm though. I remember with my oldest putting her in two sleep sacks at one point, which still wasn’t enough to keep her warm.
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lifejoy

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #151 on: December 14, 2017, 09:00:25 PM »
In our old place we rented there was no insulation nor any central heat so it got damn cold in the winter, even here in CA. I got an electric blanket and it was the most luxurious thing in the world to climb into a pre-warmed bed. so yes, I agree with you. My challenge is keeping the baby warm though. I remember with my oldest putting her in two sleep sacks at one point, which still wasn’t enough to keep her warm.

Maybe post in the baby thread for ideas?

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2017, 04:20:06 PM »
Good call
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Poundwise

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2017, 06:18:44 PM »
In our old place we rented there was no insulation nor any central heat so it got damn cold in the winter, even here in CA. I got an electric blanket and it was the most luxurious thing in the world to climb into a pre-warmed bed. so yes, I agree with you. My challenge is keeping the baby warm though. I remember with my oldest putting her in two sleep sacks at one point, which still wasn’t enough to keep her warm.

When my youngest was born, something went wrong with the thermostats and the house was overheated (once at 83 degrees!) for a few days in the winter.  Baby slept REALLY well. Wonder whether babies in the tropics have as much trouble sleeping?

Poundwise

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #154 on: December 15, 2017, 06:25:54 PM »
Quote
[quote author=lifejoy link=topic=82041.msg1802132#msg1802132 date=1512762994
Also I would like to give a major props to any parent in this thread that decided to have more than one child after enduring round one of sleep torture. I hope to sign up for round two, myself, but yikes. Gotta build up my courage.
Or develop some limited amnesia such as I did.  [/quote]
 
The funny thing is that the less sleep you get, the worse your memory gets! So you forget all about it until the next baby, at which point you go, "this is awful!  how did I sign up for this AGAIN??"  Although to be fair, my second child was a great sleeper (so great that later on this led to bedwetting because nothing wakes him up when he's down.) At which point I thought I was such a great parent because I knew all the tricks.  But my third has been the worst sleeper of all. So bad, that at almost 4 she STILL wakes up in the middle of the night and crawls into bed with me. She is in my bed right now, hogging all the blankets. Maybe I should turn up the thermostat again...

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #155 on: December 15, 2017, 09:20:39 PM »
Hahahah. Not to make fun of your predicament, but I got a kick out of the visual of you losing your covers to a 4-year old. The pecking order in my house is similar. :)

What do they say about room temp and SIDS? Just hazarding a guess, I’m sure the safe thing is a temp at which my baby would be cold and wake up all the time, because every other safe sleep practice seems to discourage sleep for my littles. I swear, whoever makes these rules doesn’t actually have a small child in his/her house waking up at night.
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Anatidae V

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #156 on: December 15, 2017, 11:17:11 PM »
Hahahah. Not to make fun of your predicament, but I got a kick out of the visual of you losing your covers to a 4-year old. The pecking order in my house is similar. :)

What do they say about room temp and SIDS? Just hazarding a guess, I’m sure the safe thing is a temp at which my baby would be cold and wake up all the time, because every other safe sleep practice seems to discourage sleep for my littles. I swear, whoever makes these rules doesn’t actually have a small child in his/her house waking up at night.
probably. We keep our room (baby sleeps in a chit cot next to my bed) at 19-22°C. I think the recommendation is 16-20°C. No idea what that is in F.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 11:54:19 PM by Anatidae V »

HappierAtHome

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #157 on: December 15, 2017, 11:21:44 PM »
What do they say about room temp and SIDS? Just hazarding a guess, I’m sure the safe thing is a temp at which my baby would be cold and wake up all the time, because every other safe sleep practice seems to discourage sleep for my littles. I swear, whoever makes these rules doesn’t actually have a small child in his/her house waking up at night.

My understanding (and I could be completely wrong) is that some of the SIDS protective actions work at least partly by the baby sleeping more lightly - so that they will wake if something is wrong.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2017, 08:24:41 AM »
16-20*C is on the cool side. I like sleeping in that kind of a temp buried under warm blankets, but since I am not supposed to bury my infant under blankets, she can’t stay warm enough in that kind of a room to sleep.

Yes, I understand as well that they sleep more lightly on their backs and that helps with the SIDS. The issue is that mine sleeps so lightly that she doesn’t sleep at all!
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Poundwise

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2017, 08:42:49 AM »
Hahahah. Not to make fun of your predicament, but I got a kick out of the visual of you losing your covers to a 4-year old. The pecking order in my house is similar. :)

Yeah! The good news is that I did get the two older kids out of my bed eventually, so it can be done. I'm a wee bit more indulgent with my youngest because I know she's my last. 

I don't know anything about temperature recommendations.  In the end, I decided that sleeping with a fat little baby asleep on my chest was better than no sleep at all. 

What seemed to work with my middle child was to co-sleep at night, but make sure that he always took a nap in his own crib. In the home where we were living then, there was no place for the crib except for a foot away from my bed, so that also made it easier to transition from cosleeping to crib.  Then when he transitioned to his own bed, he was looking forward to getting the lower bunk from his big brother. Though like I said, still not sure whether his good sleeping was due to anything I did, or just because he is by nature a sound sleeper.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #160 on: December 23, 2017, 08:57:08 AM »
Update: I have eliminated dairy from my diet and within 24 hours saw a big improvement in my baby’s daytime behavior. She no longer spends hours screaming and she doesn’t act offended when I offer her the breast. That has been a huge mental improvement because it was very taxing to see her scream in discomfort so much of the time.

Her night was still quite bad (waking up every hour) and I realized when I got her out of bed that her hands were cold. So I decided she needed to be warmer. The only way to achieve that is to, again, break the “safe sleep” rules by piling more layers on her and cranking up the thermostat so the room temperature is warmer.

It is too soon to know yet if it is a fix or I just had some luck, but last night she slept three 3-hour stretches which is amazing for us. She hadn’t done that since a newborn.

She also struggles with gas and occasionally wakes herself up to cry with a loud fart. I suspect she may be gassier when I eat raw onions, so I’ll play around with that and see if I can figure it out. Darn for all of the good foods in life being taken off my plate, but it is worth it to not wear earplugs all the time.
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Poundwise

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #161 on: December 23, 2017, 11:13:40 AM »
Hooray!!  It's also possible that better sleep will lead to better digestion, setting you off on a positive cycle.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #162 on: December 23, 2017, 11:21:25 AM »
Let us hope so. Poor kiddo is an I happy camper today, and I believe it is related to the immunizations she got yesterday. She seems to need the breast to settle down and sleep. Oh well, I’m feeling a lot more up to it after a relatively decent night’s sleep.
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Joel

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #163 on: December 23, 2017, 11:51:57 AM »
Glad to hear things are improving!

sunflower_yellow

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #164 on: December 23, 2017, 12:34:40 PM »
Ysette, you are definitely not the first mom to notice a link between your diet (and dairy specifically) and your nursling's tummy aches. If it's any consolation - you could try some limited dairy in a few months, as some babies' guts seem to mature enough to handle whatever is getting created in your milk. (Disclaimer - I'm not a lactation consultant, but I'm very interested in the topic, and I have 2 friends who had to cut dairy out of their diets when they had newborns (1 of which reintroduced it successfully when her little was maybe 10-11 months old).)

Anyway, crossing my fingers and toes that you've ID'ed a way to make your baby more comfortable! And a very Mustachian one, to boot!

lifejoy

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #165 on: December 23, 2017, 09:23:45 PM »
Three three-hour sleeps?!!! Oh, Merry Christmas!!! I hope this is a new habit! Fingers crossed!

Dicey

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #166 on: December 24, 2017, 12:55:29 AM »
Ooh, thanks for the update, especially one that reports progress.  I hope you're on the way to solid sleep in the near future.
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Anatidae V

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #167 on: December 24, 2017, 01:59:01 AM »
Fingers crossed this keep working for you. Giving up dairy isn't fun, but a baby who doesn't sleep is a whole other level.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #168 on: December 24, 2017, 06:53:41 PM »
I read the article but it seems more geared to older kids than young babies, unless I missed something. We are waiting for that four-month adjusted  age to really do anything.
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awomanlessordinary

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #169 on: December 24, 2017, 07:12:31 PM »
The super early stage is really hard.  I remember visiting my family doctor, convinced that my son was teething / ill / whatever and being told... no, they're just like that.

I'm sorry that you're feeling so frazzled, but it will pass.  Each day feels like a year at times, so that probably doesn't sound very helpful.  I found the baby whisperer (as I said in my article) super helpful.  The idea is basically to separate feeding from sleeping: feed, a little activity, then sleep.  That's all you can really do and roll with the punches / avoid the pitfalls and get into the good habits I outlined until they're a tiny bit older.  Once their tummies are a bit bigger and they can take on more food, then they have the ability to sleep for longer stretches / you'll feel less guilty for any sleep training that you decide to do.  Some parents get lucky and have less hungry babies, which is why I think they sleep through from a younger age.  I have no concrete evidence of this though, just anecdotal.  A lot of the "easy" babies didn't turn into easy toddlers, so don't worry about that aspect of things. 

My son was a milk monster!  I had to breastfeed him hourly for most of that hour for his "cluster feed" in the early days.  I think that's why he slept so badly.  Once he was eating solids after 6 months it really helped a lot, with how long he would sleep at night plus the baby whisperer sleep training worked well.  In hindsight in my own particular situation, I should have started weaning at 5 months.  There was a huge dip in his weight chart and he was a nightmare!  I dutifully followed the NHS advice, but one size definitely does not fit all.

Really good luck with it.  Try to stick with the good habits, avoid the bad and it should come right for you eventually.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #170 on: December 25, 2017, 11:59:00 AM »
I totally jinxed myself by posting about that one good night of three 3-hour sleep stretches. I haven’t had anything so good since. I’m lucky to get one 3-hour stretch and a handful of 2-hour stretches. Damn kid. I can’t get mad at the baby because she is a baby, but the 3.5 year old is waking multiple times a night to scream as well. Thank god her father is home so I am sending him in to soothe her instead.

Mid February is when the baby will be four months developmentally and we can start sleep training. I’ll be setting up an appointment with the sleep coach to come over soon to set up a strategy for when we get there. I need to nip this at the bud and not wait for nine months out of desperation when we finally hired a sleep coach with the oldest. I only hope the littlest will actually respond to sleep training, unlike the big one.

All I want for Christmas is good sleep!
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lifejoy

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #171 on: December 25, 2017, 08:05:49 PM »
Best wishes, ysette. I am sleep training soon. My baby is nearly five months old and doesn’t sleep more than 2 hours and often only sleeps 1 hour at a time.

I am nervous about sleep training but also can’t go on like this. Yep.

elaine amj

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #172 on: December 26, 2017, 07:27:59 AM »
((Hugs))

On the subject of diet, what about trying to adjust it even more?

One time when DS was about a month old, my mother made me a cabbage soup with an insane amount of cabbage. My DS was a nightmare when I nurses him after that. So I decided to try eliminating all dairy and all gassy foods after that. No milk or cheese and no cabbage, garlic, onions, etc etc. I can't remember everything on my "no" list but it was very very extensive.

He was better after that though and I stayed off everything for about 2 weeks and then gradually reintroduced everything slowly. It seemed to make a big enough difference (even if it was just psychologically lol) that I would do it again.

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Spondulix

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #173 on: January 04, 2018, 07:59:58 PM »
Your story sounds sooo much like my son. He's 14 months old now and was born 6 weeks preemie. When I went back to work (10 weeks old/4 weeks adjusted) I was still exclusively breastfeeding and getting up every 2-3 hours at night. It was brutal. I did that til he was 4 months when we hired a sleep consultant (who's also a pediatric nurse and lactation consultant). Then my son started sleeping through the night.

For my son, the issue turned out to be very simple: gas. In retrospect, a lot of our struggles (colic, bedtime meltdowns, short naps, night wakings) were because he needed a burp or to release gas. We always thought he was hungry before. He'd need to burp an hour later sometimes. This video about baby language is AMAZING - this is how we learned to tell the difference between his cries:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgkZf6jVdVg&t=11s

Our sleep consultant suggested burping for 5 mins (even after breastfeeding - which I wasn't doing before). That alone doubled his stretches of sleep. She had a technique of squeezing just above the hips on the back that worked brilliantly. We also did gas exercises before every nap and bedtime. We had to lift his knees to his shoulders and put a bit of pressure on his thighs. I'll try to find a Youtube video but most infant massage videos are way too gentle and don't really do anything.

Unfortunately my son quit sleeping through the night a few months later... took about 6 months to figure out he's sensitive to dairy (but not allergic). Even a few oz of "dairy free" formulas like Alimentum would cause night wakings so we eventually went to soy.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #174 on: January 04, 2018, 08:59:11 PM »
It has been a little while since I posted here so I may as well give an update. I continue to avoid all dairy and my baby is a much happier creature as a result. We are following the sleep consultant and we are on our second plan that seems to be making progress. We have given up on trying to get her to sleep on her back because that was a total failure. I nurse her and put her down on her belly. If she wakes and fusses, we let her cry. She has been putting herself back to sleep within five minutes and tonight she barely cried at all.
At night when she wakes I give her five minutes to fuss/cry. If it has been at least three hours then I nurse her. If not, I let her continue to fuss until she puts herself back to sleep.
This method would have never worked with my oldest. She went straight to screaming bloody murder and would never let up. The younger one miraculously is responding and figuring out how to go back to sleep, more or less.
The one big challenge is that I have gone back to work and she is home with my husband, and she refuses to take a bottle. So, she only really eats from when I get home late in the afternoon until I leave early in the morning. That puts a crimp in getting her to go for longer stretches at night. However, as long as I get to sleep in at least 1.5-hour increments I can function, so this works for now.
Fingers crossed tonight also goes well. It is amazing how many variables there at and how many things like gas or food allergies or whatnot can keep babies from sleeping. Little mysteries!
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Dicey

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #175 on: January 05, 2018, 11:17:09 PM »
Whew! My hat is off to you, 'cuz I don't know how you're managing all of this. Here's to continued improvement. ♡♡♡♡♡
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Frugal Lizard

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #176 on: January 06, 2018, 05:21:27 AM »
Wishes for peaceful sleep are being sent your way.
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ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #177 on: January 06, 2018, 01:40:23 PM »
Thanks for the good thoughts. Nights are going pretty well overall. Unfortunately days are tough as she won’t nap for more than 30 min in bed AND she is still refusing the bottle. Stubborn little one!
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StarBright

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #178 on: January 06, 2018, 06:58:56 PM »
So glad that stuff is working with baby!

I also have a "difficult" first child when it comes to sleep and life and I have to remind myself to try strategies with my second child even though they didn't work with kiddo#1. It can be so easy to get into a mind frame of "but that didn't work the first time." Each kid is totally different.

Good luck on the bottle! 

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #179 on: January 06, 2018, 08:16:23 PM »
And good luck being back at work! I hope it's a smooth transition.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #180 on: January 06, 2018, 09:00:36 PM »
Good point. Things are working with the second one which would have never worked with the first.

Work has been going okay so far! I am better rested this time and that makes a big difference. I had less anxiety about going back the second time around, partially because I had done it before and partially because my husband has a much longer paternity leave this time. Being at work has been a peaceful break from the noise of caring for a baby. :)
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elaine amj

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #181 on: January 09, 2018, 11:08:00 AM »
Sooooo happy things are going better!!!!

For the bottle, I imagine you have tried all different nipples. Oddly enough,  my oldest didn't care about different nipples (I tried a bunch)... what she cared about was a different bottle.  When I switched to the cheap straight bottle, she started chowing down.

Didn't make a difference to my son though. He refused everything until I gave him a sippy cup at 6 months.

Another thought is a small open cup. They even make tiny open cups specifically for babies. My son would drink from those even though refused the bottle.

My conclusion?  Babies are just weird. Good thing they are cute.

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ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #182 on: January 09, 2018, 12:07:07 PM »
TRUTH about then being weird, and good thing they are cute. :)

We had a bit of a setback at night but still overalll things are going much better than they were. My husband had a breakthrough yesterday with some fancy new nipple that has a lot higher flow rate. She chowed down on that whereas she would have a fit and act offended if you tried to offer one of the other nipples. Progress! If she can eat during the day then I can push the envelope a bit more at night.
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Pennycounter

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #183 on: January 11, 2018, 10:43:57 PM »
Good point. Things are working with the second one which would have never worked with the first.

Work has been going okay so far! I am better rested this time and that makes a big difference. I had less anxiety about going back the second time around, partially because I had done it before and partially because my husband has a much longer paternity leave this time. Being at work has been a peaceful break from the noise of caring for a baby. :)
That's the best perspective for going back to work, getting to appreciate the quiet! Going back after my second was much better as well. I took off longer and I had more gentle expectations about the transition.

Anatidae V

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #184 on: January 13, 2018, 03:12:06 PM »
Ysette9, I hope you don't mind me asking my own question on this thread.

My 9 month old wakes anywhere between twice a night or every 2 hours. He's a happy, chunky boy. I just had 2 nights of 2 hours and I'm shattered. Food issue or sleep issue? I'm trying to decide if I need a sleep consultant or a feeding consultant (lactation consultant?) Or, do I just chalk it up to teething and a mental/physical growth spurt and continue as per normal? He's never slept any better than this, it's his normal.

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #185 on: January 14, 2018, 02:02:02 PM »
I am far from an expert here but I can share what I have been told from the two sleep consultants we have hired. They tend to agree that by 9 months the babies don’t NEED to eat at night. I kept nursing my oldest at that age because she was struggling to stay on the 10 percentile growth curve and her doctor was concerned about her weight gain. That is pretty rare though.

With my youngest we were advised to give her five to ten minutes to cry and try to settle herself back to sleep. If she is still upset after that, pick her up, ca her down for a few minutes, then put her back to bed. Give her another 5-10 to see if she can settle herself. A few weeks ago she was settling herself back down. Right now she was going on for a good 25 minutes and suckling her fist with these wet smacking noises. The sleep coach told us it sounded like she really was hungry and unable to go back to sleep because of it. So for now I am resetting and feeding her. If I were you I would recommmend letting your baby do some crying to see if he can learn to self soothe. I suspect based on what my babies went through/are going through that he needs you to go back to sleep. Does he eat well during the day? The week that my little one starved herself while I was at work because she refused the bottle she still wasn’t waking up every two hours all night long.

I feel for you. This is so rough.
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Anatidae V

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #186 on: January 14, 2018, 02:49:25 PM »
Thanks ysette9. Yeah, if he was struggling with weight I would have gone with a feeding issue and been taking to a food person of some sort. He eats well during daytime, and I suspect he snacks.

Sounds like the little guy is about to get a lot of cuddles from "not-milk" (ie his dad can try to re-settle him first if he needs it).

ysette9

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #187 on: January 14, 2018, 07:55:20 PM »
Having another “not-milk” parent is so handy for situations like this! Good luck with that. I am sure he will protest initially so give it a good 3-4 nights before deciding if a new method is effective or not.
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Rogernelson

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Re: Sleep help needed
« Reply #188 on: January 15, 2018, 03:51:18 AM »
I feel for you! My first was the worst sleeper. We did use a swing and that helped, I would def pick one up off criqgsly. You can get rid of it once she’s out of it. I also second the night nanny recommendation . It’s too soon for sleep training but if you must return to work, hire someone for 3-5 nights/ week. Start looking now.
Best of luck!
thanks for sharing... I think it will help us.
roger