Researching schools

[GorgeousSteak]

We're considering a long distance move and are researching areas to live.  School quality is a big concern us, so we want to make sure we do a good job researching them.  I'm aware of greatschools and the other things like it.  My understanding is that the grades are based on test scores.  And it seems possible that sometimes test scores are not the best indicator (what if a certain school has more ESL kids, of what if a certain school "teaches to the test" more, etc.).  Also maybe they don't consider things like, gangs, bullying, drug use, etc.  I'm not really sure exactly, but something about placing such a large value on what seems an incomplete number doesn't have me feeling great.  Anyone have any input?

[AZDude]

Demographic information provides most of the information you need to know the general quality of the area near the school and how likely you are to run into bullying/drugs/gangs/etc... Not a perfect indicator, but poor areas generally have shitty schools.

[bsmith]

Sadly, household income data from the Census by zip code would probably be the most reliable indicator.

[MDM]

We're considering a long distance move and are researching areas to live. ... Anyone have any input?

Are you looking at locations within a certain distance from a known fixed point, or are you considering widely separated locations?  E.g., "best area near Richmond, VA" vs. "somewhere on the East Coast"?

[GorgeousSteak]

Currently, we're mostly investigating the Denver area, mostly southern areas around DTC.  Littleton seems to be a frontrunner, and we'd like to live close to the downtown area, but there appear to be crappy elementary schools near downtown (Moody and Field get a 3 and a 4 on greatschools).  If anyone has firsthand knowledge of this district and/or schools that'd be useful.  But also just looking for general methods that can be applied elsewhere as there are other areas of Denver we're interested in and entire other regions as well.

[MDM]

But also just looking for general methods....

Renting prior to (or instead of) buying gives you more flexibility to take your time, look at different neighborhoods at different times, and get a better perspective than a "house hunting trip" provides.

[mm1970]

We're considering a long distance move and are researching areas to live.  School quality is a big concern us, so we want to make sure we do a good job researching them.  I'm aware of greatschools and the other things like it.  My understanding is that the grades are based on test scores.  And it seems possible that sometimes test scores are not the best indicator (what if a certain school has more ESL kids, of what if a certain school "teaches to the test" more, etc.).  Also maybe they don't consider things like, gangs, bullying, drug use, etc.  I'm not really sure exactly, but something about placing such a large value on what seems an incomplete number doesn't have me feeling great.  Anyone have any input?

Very good questions, and you are right.

For example, our elementary school does not score very well.  A 4 out of 10.  (we transferred into this school from a school that scores a 1/10)
However, we have a lot of ESL students.
Most sites will break down the scores by type - so there is an overall API score for the school, and then details on the API for the ESL kids, the socio-economically disadvantaged, the caucasian, the Latino, etc.  This is only available for each group if they are a high enough percentage.  (For example, our home school that we transferred FROM has 7 caucasian students out of 350 total, so they don't break down the caucasian scores).

Of course, there are other things like music, art, etc. to consider.

It's a delicate balance.  In order to make up for state budget shortfalls, the PTA has to raise money.  But 75% of the students in our school are poor.  It makes it difficult for the remaining families to do the fundraising (for example, this year we are expected to FULLY fund the computer specialist - a school employee - at the tune of $40k a year.  We are only able to raise about $50-60k).

On the other hand, the "really awesome best school in the district" down the street, flat out tells parents that they are expected to cut a check for $500 per kid at the beginning of the year.  And volunteer.  And on top of that, because a fair portion of the families are wealthy, your kid is surrounded by other kids who vacation in Europe, play multiple sports, have an Iphone 6 at age 9, etc.

My kid talks about how 'rich' his friends families are, but the vast majority of the kids at his school get free lunch, so it keeps him grounded.

[GorgeousSteak]

MDM, yeah, I've thought about renting.  My wife would much prefer to not move the kids around multiple times if it can be avoided.  Even if we do decide to rent, we'd still like to make our best attempt at finding a good spot, and the school issue presents itself whether we are renting or not.  It is also just a giant PITA to move (since this is the mini mustache board, I find it significantly more painful now that kids are involved), so I think most likely we are going to gamble a little bit and buy a place.

[Welshrabbit]

I've found city-data.com to be a very good forum for getting answers to questions about a new area.  It really helped me with both of my relocations.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I know renting sucks, but I would NEVER buy a house in an area I was not familiar with. We lived in Denver for months before buying (in the NE part of the city, which is still gentrifying--almost out to Aurora) and still aren't sure we did the right thing.

Our kids are enrolled at a turnaround school. The data wasn't very convincing, so we visited a class. I talked to a teacher who has been there for years and brought his whole family there (wife is a teacher, kids go to school there), and that spoke volumes to me. Don't over-rely on scores.

Denver does have school choice, but of course it's not a panacea and it will be useless to you for the first year (since you have to apply in December, or by March at the latest). Littleton could be good,  or you could also look at Cherry Creek School District.

[ubermom4]

If you care about schools, moving with kids is really hard. I totally feel your pain. We have 4 kids and have moved repeatedly. The kids refer to us as gypsies. Our kids have gone to public schools in MA, CA, LA.

I have used the Great Schools website a bunch. Scores are helpful but not really revealing. More helpful are the comments from the parents. Especially in the CA schools, some of the parent comments were detailed and clear -- mentioning a new principal or a preponderance of transient foreign speaking kids, etc. The statistics  (school lunch, academic scores, English language learners, etc.) about the school also help you to understand the 'tilt' of the school -- where the school is applying its limited resources.

The most important thing about any school any where is the fit between your particular child and the particular teacher they have for an entire year. The teacher can be marvelous and truly annoy your child -- a lost year. There are great teachers for your child in many schools but they can be hard to find and get to your child. You can have a great school and get stuck with the lousy teachers -- still bad for your particular child.

If you are concerned about school quality you will usually get poor reviews from regular parents about their schools. They are all biased to think their schools are 'good' (whatever that may mean). Whatever areas concern you most, you should focus on them -- classroom size, music program, sports program,  etc.

If you find you are dissatisfied with your school's  academic rigor, feel free to augment your child's learning. There are many online ways to encourage your child to learn. Khan Academy is a fine start in this area. Kumon is also much used for math.

Most schools offer some sort of 'honors' programs for students --advanced math, english, etc. The honors programs tend to cover more material, have fewer discipline problems and less bullying. It can be really helpful in a new school district to understand how to get your children in to those programs, if you feel they are ready. Don't be shy to find out about these programs.

When moving we often looked at larger towns that had multiple elementary schools or multiple middle and high schools. Often the ratings for each of these schools varied widely. It was easy to see a 7 school in the same town with a 3 school. It concerned us that our family might be sent to different schools of varying quality.  It did turn out that our family was sent to multiple elementary schools and we were happy to chose a town that did not have a lower rated school we wanted to avoid.

If you can narrow your choices to a few, it is also helpful to look at each school's website. You can find out how involved the parents groups are. Active parents are a vital check and balance on the school system.

It might also help you to look at the reviews for the High Schools and work backwards to the Elementary schools. It's hard to have a great high school with crummy Elementary schools feeding in to it. You might look at the best high schools in Denver and find out which schools feed in to those high schools. US News and others rate them. Just in case you don't have enough data to digest!

Sorry this is so long and wandering. Just wanted to share some items for you to consider. Hope this helps.

[mm1970]

One of the other things to consider is to figure out the general support of schools in the area.  For example, my husband's home school (where his sister's kids go) had a couple of decades of NO school bonds passed, because it was mostly retirees.