Author Topic: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?  (Read 7160 times)

nottoolatetostart

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Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« on: January 17, 2017, 04:12:23 AM »
Hi all - we have a 4 yo girl that is enrolled half-time in Pre-K for $2k per year. She is  eligible to start free Kindegarten in August. She turns 5 days before school starts - cutoff is Sept 1, her birthday is August 27.

Many parents around here hold their younger kids back for a variety of reasons, sports or feeling like their kids are not intellectually/emotionally ready.

If I read the K prerequisite knowledge requirements, my daughter meets them today, let alone in 7 months' time, I hope she can be starting to read more. Her Pre-K teacher does not think my daughter is ready, but I can't tell if it is because all her peers are 5+  and will be going on 6 for K. The teacher says that my daughter is one of the first kids to help another kid if he falls down and rsteshigh on social skills.I hate that other parents make this competitive and hold back kids with June and July birthdays.

We also work on writing/problem solving/tracing/etc worksheets with our daughter (no other parent I have spoken to does this) and build in counting, learning letters in everything we do throughout our day.

My husband and I were thinking about enrolling her in free K (it's a half day program) and if need be, hold her back and do second year of Kindegarten. I hate holding her back already, without giving her a chance to try it first. Plus, I don't want to spend more money on Pre-K.

BTW - our local public school is one of the best in the state. Enrollment is just a few weeks away for Aug 2017.

Anyone have similar experience? Thoughts? Thanks!

horsepoor

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 04:28:06 AM »
Things are different now I'm sure, but my birthday is early November and I started school at four so I was nearly a year younger than many of my classmates and it was never a problem.  Mom always said I was precocious, but I suspect she was biased.

nottoolatetostart

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 04:33:25 AM »
Things are different now I'm sure, but my birthday is early November and I started school at four so I was nearly a year younger than many of my classmates and it was never a problem.  Mom always said I was precocious, but I suspect she was biased.

Same here. I had an Aug birthday, on the younger side, less than ideal home life, uninterested mom, no dad, was on my own a lot, and did fine. My daughter is so blessed with her life right now (whether she knows it or not...hahaha!).

Freedomin5

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 05:30:31 AM »
If the Pre-K teacher feels she is not ready, it's important to understand why. What early learning/school readiness skills is your daughter still learning/does she need to develop? School readiness skills goes beyond knowledge and social skills. It also includes functional communication, executive functioning skills, etc.

 If her teacher is experienced, she's probably been around the blocks a few times, and understands the skills necessary for kindergarten, and I doubt she would just randomly say your daughter is not ready for kindergarten just because her birthday is a few days before the cut off date. Once you understand the teacher's concerns, you can work with your daughter at home to develop those particular lagging skills, and she may be ready for kindergarten in August.

Of course, if, after listening to the teacher's observations and comments, it turns out that the teacher has no basis in making those comments, then by all means just keep on doing what you're already doing, and put your daughter in kindergarten in August.

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 05:51:19 AM »
our child is expected around the end of august.  my wife and i both prefer to hold our child back one year.  Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's book outliers.  its a good read.  it focuses on timing and a lot of it revolves around sports.  for example the cut off for baseball is typically June 1 so the kid born june 2nd is playing with younger kids and looks bigger better faster stronger.  not coincidentally most baseball players are born in the summer months of June July and August.  Why? b/c they looked better than the competition and were given more opportunities to succeed.  Personally i think the same applies to schooling.  A child that is older has a more developed brain and will appear to be a faster learner than the rest.  Giving them a leg up and confidence on top of everything else.  not to mention if they play sports too they will be bigger/older than most allwoing them a better chance to make the teams since they are grade based not age based. 
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erutio

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 06:11:23 AM »
the mustachian answer is to start your child on time.  Why would you want to handicap your child by having them learn with younger kids.  Challenge them. The few months age difference will be negligible as they age through elementary school.  Plus it will be one less year you have to support them.
We have a son that will be in the same grade, but he's born in February so we wont have the same dilemma as you. 

kimmarg

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 06:12:57 AM »
Things are different now I'm sure, but my birthday is early November and I started school at four so I was nearly a year younger than many of my classmates and it was never a problem.  Mom always said I was precocious, but I suspect she was biased.

I turned 5 mid December of my Kindergarten year. I didn't really have any issues until I got to middle school. Middle school kids are brutal and there's  a a big difference between 12 and 14. Still I would not hold my daughter back. In fact her birthday is  Nov and I'm really bummed she won't be able to start at 4 here (they say the cut off date is Sept 30).

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 06:16:40 AM »
the mustachian answer is to start your child on time.  Why would you want to handicap your child by having them learn with younger kids.  Challenge them. The few months age difference will be negligible as they age through elementary school.  Plus it will be one less year you have to support them.
We have a son that will be in the same grade, but he's born in February so we wont have the same dilemma as you.

a few months is not negligble its far from it esp at that age.
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greengardens

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 06:21:47 AM »
I have a June birthday and my parents held me back so I was 6 when I started kindergarten. Honestly, academically and socially I feel like it was the right decision for me. i agree with Freedomin5, really understand why the pre k teacher wants her to wait another year. And really examine why you want her to start now. Several of my friends started school early because their parents wanted them out of the house not because they felt they were ready for school. Just remember, whatever you decide will be the right decision for her as you know the situation better than we do

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 06:25:39 AM »
at the end of the day its a very small amount of money for one extra prekindergarten year if it gets them at the top of their class and lots of scholarships. 
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Midwest

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 06:27:01 AM »
We have done it both ways.  Oldest was born in July and started K at 5 (both we and the teacher thought she was ready).  Youngest born in early August and started at 6 (we didn't think he was ready).  I do think it helps socially to wait.

Both have done well.  It's important to evaluate the child and listen to their teachers in making the decision.

Neustache

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 06:27:50 AM »
If the Pre-K teacher feels she is not ready, it's important to understand why. What early learning/school readiness skills is your daughter still learning/does she need to develop? School readiness skills goes beyond knowledge and social skills. It also includes functional communication, executive functioning skills, etc.

 If her teacher is experienced, she's probably been around the blocks a few times, and understands the skills necessary for kindergarten, and I doubt she would just randomly say your daughter is not ready for kindergarten just because her birthday is a few days before the cut off date. Once you understand the teacher's concerns, you can work with your daughter at home to develop those particular lagging skills, and she may be ready for kindergarten in August.

Of course, if, after listening to the teacher's observations and comments, it turns out that the teacher has no basis in making those comments, then by all means just keep on doing what you're already doing, and put your daughter in kindergarten in August.


I agree - really listen to the teacher and see why she thinks that way.  Also, check with your school district and have her evaluated - I believe most districts have a kindergarten readiness screening (at least they do in our area).

My daughter was one that was told to wait a year.  We didn't.  It's been rough.  When we had her tested for the gifted program, we found out (officially) why.  Her processing speed is in the bottom 20th percentile.  That's huge....her overall IQ was high enough to get her into the program, but that deficit.....man.  I wish we had held her back. 

So please ask a lot of questions as to why they think that.  It could be nothing.  But it could be something other than her just being young, and the fact that she has a summer birthday gives you more options (as opposed to a January birthday, where she would be noticeably older than other kids if you held her back). 


(Also, I'm a first year PreK teacher.  There's maybe one kid out of thirty I would think might need to be held back, so if she's the one kid, I'd wanna know why a teacher is saying that!)

« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 06:29:30 AM by Neustache »

BeanCounter

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 06:30:40 AM »
I are debating the same thing at our house. Our youngest will turn five middle of this September and makes the cutoff for Kindergarten. We are currently paying close to $15k for full time preschool/daycare, so starting him would be a significant savings. Academically and socially he is ready for kindergarten. But we will likely wait. It's not that Kindergarten is hard, it's that first and second grade are much harder than they used to be. The kids are expected to do seat work and testing for extended periods of time. They are also expected to read much earlier than my generation. Our oldest is in 2nd grade and turned 8 in December. We had to wait with him because he didn't make the cutoff, but he is still one of the older kids in class. Watching him in first and second grade, I'm glad we had to wait.
You may hate that "parents make this competitive and hold back kids with June and July birthdays", but if you go ahead and put her in she'll always be compared to older more mature kids. It will probably be fine in Kindergarten, but might come back to bite you later.

Neustache

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 06:34:22 AM »
Yes!  What BeanCounter said as well.  1st and 2nd grade are much, MUCH different than what you may remember.  Also, depending on your district, they may only get 1 recess a day.  That can be rough for some kids.


nottoolatetostart

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 06:39:16 AM »
Thanks. I guess what is the harm in sending her to K in August and then holding her back to repeat K if needed?

3 hours a day of K (which includes parties, days off, field trips, snack time) and then an hour of homework in K. Every time I turn around, the kids are out of school. Maybe I am undermining K. The parents I talk to hate the homework because they work, but we are already doing worksheets and stuff (and they are not), so the homework is negligible for me.

I did read to that holding kids back tends to be a more affluent decision, furthering widening gap between rich and poor. More affluent households can afford to hold back, whereas lower income households must send their kids.

Also, where our daughter goes to school now is a blue ribbon school. So I wonder if their expectations for students is above the curve compared to the public school, which will see the overall curve widen.

There are no free Pre-K programs here. $2-4K is a lot.

In November, she was struggling with some fine motor skills (tracing well) and writing her letters and staying inside lines. She follows directions, is asking questions of her teachers in a social setting, leads with other kids.  Two months later, she can recognize her letters, sounding them out (even words we see on streets), reading little words, putting together cause and effect, problem solve, trace, write out letters. We are still working on free form writing (not tracing) - that is her biggest. Her areas of improvement according to her early assessment is on that and tracing.



Kl285528

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 06:49:02 AM »
My wife has an early October birthday, her parents sent her on, and she has forever felt like that made for a less enjoyable experience for her in school. She was always the least mature one, and the smallest stature child. Confidence is key. I think it does give the kid an edge to be the oldest versus the youngest in a class. So, my son has a mid September birthday, and we held him out to go to what we call TK , which is pre kindergarten. Every kid is different, that said, I know we did the right thing for my son.

Psychstache

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 06:49:06 AM »
Educator here.

I think talking to the PreK teacher about the specifics of her concerns would be a good place to start. I would also go to your state education agency website and look at the grade level expectations and see what a student is expected to know before and after Kindergarten (they might not have this posted if Kinder is not required in your state).

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).

In your shoes I would be hesitant to go to Kinder, especially if the Pre-K teacher has some good reasoning. When I was working as an intervention specialist, the Kinder kiddos that got referred to me were almost always the summer birthdays and the younger part of the cohort (ie, kids who were 5 and 1 month vs 5 and 10 months).

The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.

As some personal evidence, My sister and I also have September birthdays and our parents started us at 4 turning 5. For my sister, she was clearly not ready and ended up repeating kinder. I was fine academically, but I was too young and not ready emotionally and it showed big time, particularly in later years of middle school and high school. I also screwed around and wasted time in college because I wasn't mature enough to be ready.

Also, I have a little girl whose birthday is end of September and I am psyched that I don't have to make this decision and that I get to keep her out of Kinder until she is in the older group.

BeanCounter

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 06:51:55 AM »
Thanks. I guess what is the harm in sending her to K in August and then holding her back to repeat K if needed?

3 hours a day of K (which includes parties, days off, field trips, snack time) and then an hour of homework in K. Every time I turn around, the kids are out of school. Maybe I am undermining K. The parents I talk to hate the homework because they work, but we are already doing worksheets and stuff (and they are not), so the homework is negligible for me.

I did read to that holding kids back tends to be a more affluent decision, furthering widening gap between rich and poor. More affluent households can afford to hold back, whereas lower income households must send their kids.

Also, where our daughter goes to school now is a blue ribbon school. So I wonder if their expectations for students is above the curve compared to the public school, which will see the overall curve widen.

There are no free Pre-K programs here. $2-4K is a lot.

In November, she was struggling with some fine motor skills (tracing well) and writing her letters and staying inside lines. She follows directions, is asking questions of her teachers in a social setting, leads with other kids.  Two months later, she can recognize her letters, sounding them out (even words we see on streets), reading little words, putting together cause and effect, problem solve, trace, write out letters. We are still working on free form writing (not tracing) - that is her biggest. Her areas of improvement according to her early assessment is on that and tracing.
The more you post the more I think you should wait.
The harm is that you may not get the choice. The school may say that she is ready to move on from K, only to then struggle in a later grade.
My son goes to a Blue Ribbon private school and I believe the academics are a bit harder. And most of the kids with a fall birthday wait. So your child will likely be the youngest in her grade her whole life. Which could be a problem for academics, or socially- think dating even.
My son's school still does handwriting. If she is struggling with fine motor and her handwriting is more delayed than her older classmates this will be very discouraging for her. And more practice doesn't always help, sometimes it's just something they have to grow into. Trust me- you do not want her to have the worst handwriting in the class!!
A few more months of maturity also helps with executive function down the road. Like I said, Kinder might be fine, but a few years down the road if she is unable to sit still or unable to execute bigger projects because she lacks that extra maturity it will be very hard on her self esteem.
In the grand scheme of things $2-$4k and another year is NOT a LOT. But having to push your child to meet higher expectations for the next 12 years could be devastating for her.

BeanCounter

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 06:53:54 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.


posted while I posted. DING, DING, DING!!!! YES.

BTDretire

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2017, 07:17:21 AM »
It may be worth having someone outside of the preschool test your child.
 We have no info about the qualification of the person that made this possibly
off the cuff remark.
 After having a kindergarten teach run my daughter through some tests, she said
she was good to start. The only thing she couldn't do was skip, I got the blame for that!
 I taught her the next day.
 My wife altered a birth certificate and got her in school early, she has a Sept. birthday.
She did well and graduated 4th in a class of over 400.
 That was 20 years ago, we're past the statute of limitations.

nottoolatetostart

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2017, 07:28:01 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.


posted while I posted. DING, DING, DING!!!! YES.

I am really overwhelmed with all the thoughtful responses everyone posted. Thank you so much!!!!!

You all make such great points, esp average = behind. Ok, will talk to my husband and put in a call today to the elementary on options.

If only we waited 1 more month to have a baby, I would not have this decision at all to make.  Hahaha. Wouldn't life be easier?

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2017, 07:42:49 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.


posted while I posted. DING, DING, DING!!!! YES.

I am really overwhelmed with all the thoughtful responses everyone posted. Thank you so much!!!!!

You all make such great points, esp average = behind. Ok, will talk to my husband and put in a call today to the elementary on options.

If only we waited 1 more month to have a baby, I would not have this decision at all to make.  Hahaha. Wouldn't life be easier?

an elementary school is going to tell you they are ready b/c the guildlines are at this age they are ready. 

Again saving 2k now at the cost of likely much much more money in scholarships later seems like a bad investment IMO.
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acroy

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2017, 07:43:43 AM »
Throw her in!
There's no real downside. Absolute worst case she repeats a year.
If you delay, there's no getting back that year gone.
Good luck!
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Midwest

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2017, 07:45:41 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.


posted while I posted. DING, DING, DING!!!! YES.

I am really overwhelmed with all the thoughtful responses everyone posted. Thank you so much!!!!!

You all make such great points, esp average = behind. Ok, will talk to my husband and put in a call today to the elementary on options.

If only we waited 1 more month to have a baby, I would not have this decision at all to make.  Hahaha. Wouldn't life be easier?

FWIW, my older child was born in July and started on time (5 y/o in K).  She has done fine and is near the top of her class in a highly ranked school.  She was ready so we let her start.  We noticed the social issues of having older classmates when she was younger much more than we do now.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2017, 08:12:54 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.

I wonder if the blue ribbon school just wants to keep that appearance up?  Ask the teacher detailed questions about why she's not ready - and listen carefully to the answers with an open mind.

FYI, the assumption that younger students won't do as well may not be accurate:
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

I'm an August baby, and I started on-time so I was always the youngest in my grade.  I did extremely well academically - gifted & talented programs, scholarships, ivy league college, etc.  And this began early - in 2nd grade I was offered a slot in the 2/3rd grade split class they had (they sought advanced 2nd graders and average 3rd graders).  Socially, my folks were only worried because I was small for my age.  I honestly didn't even realize I was one of the youngest kids in my grade until 8th, when the English teacher had us sit by age.  Re sports - well, it probably depends on what sport you do.  I did fairly well in a variety of sports (including state championships for one) and was generally "athletic", but was never going to win an athletic scholarship.

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2017, 09:02:49 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.

I wonder if the blue ribbon school just wants to keep that appearance up?  Ask the teacher detailed questions about why she's not ready - and listen carefully to the answers with an open mind.

FYI, the assumption that younger students won't do as well may not be accurate:
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

I'm an August baby, and I started on-time so I was always the youngest in my grade.  I did extremely well academically - gifted & talented programs, scholarships, ivy league college, etc.  And this began early - in 2nd grade I was offered a slot in the 2/3rd grade split class they had (they sought advanced 2nd graders and average 3rd graders).  Socially, my folks were only worried because I was small for my age.  I honestly didn't even realize I was one of the youngest kids in my grade until 8th, when the English teacher had us sit by age.  Re sports - well, it probably depends on what sport you do.  I did fairly well in a variety of sports (including state championships for one) and was generally "athletic", but was never going to win an athletic scholarship.

amazing research from a sample size of one .. yourself.
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boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2017, 09:05:11 AM »
i'll take your single sample and raise you 55 times but still not that large

http://www.cultofpedagogy.com/academic-redshirting/

kids who get red shirted are happy they were

kids who werent wish they were.
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hunniebun

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2017, 09:11:28 AM »
It is interesting that the cut off isn't the calendar year.  Here (Canada), it all goes by calendar year, so all kids born in 2012 will be in the same class regardless of whether they are born in January or December. In those first few years, the difference is noticeable for sure...buy by the time they hit grade 2 or 3...it isn't anymore.  I would register her and just move forward with it.  I wouldn't want to hold my child back and have them be a year behind their peers when they are teens, young adults because of a few months difference when they are 4.  My daughter is also 4 and was born August 18th and going to kindergarten in Sept as well.  There will be (January) kids who might be a bit further ahead...but honestly, who cares...then she will learn from them!  I'd rather have my child be challenged than bored (I have a January son who was bored to death the first 3 years...but now it is evening out).   Good luck with whatever you decide!  (and don't let someone else make the call for you...if the school didn't want June/July August kids in Kindergarten, then they should change the cut off date!)


BeanCounter

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2017, 09:16:29 AM »
It is interesting that the cut off isn't the calendar year.  Here (Canada), it all goes by calendar year, so all kids born in 2012 will be in the same class regardless of whether they are born in January or December. In those first few years, the difference is noticeable for sure...buy by the time they hit grade 2 or 3...it isn't anymore.  I would register her and just move forward with it.  I wouldn't want to hold my child back and have them be a year behind their peers when they are teens, young adults because of a few months difference when they are 4.  My daughter is also 4 and was born August 18th and going to kindergarten in Sept as well.  There will be (January) kids who might be a bit further ahead...but honestly, who cares...then she will learn from them!  I'd rather have my child be challenged than bored (I have a January son who was bored to death the first 3 years...but now it is evening out).   Good luck with whatever you decide!  (and don't let someone else make the call for you...if the school didn't want June/July August kids in Kindergarten, then they should change the cut off date!)
But if you're in an area where waiting is common, then your not "holding them back", you're starting them "early".
I would rather have a kid that's older and bored in some areas (you can give more or different work for that) than a child that is "challenged" which could lead to discouragement. Unfortunately you don't know until you're there, and then it's too late.

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2017, 09:26:54 AM »
It is interesting that the cut off isn't the calendar year.  Here (Canada), it all goes by calendar year, so all kids born in 2012 will be in the same class regardless of whether they are born in January or December. In those first few years, the difference is noticeable for sure...buy by the time they hit grade 2 or 3...it isn't anymore.  I would register her and just move forward with it.  I wouldn't want to hold my child back and have them be a year behind their peers when they are teens, young adults because of a few months difference when they are 4.  My daughter is also 4 and was born August 18th and going to kindergarten in Sept as well.  There will be (January) kids who might be a bit further ahead...but honestly, who cares...then she will learn from them!  I'd rather have my child be challenged than bored (I have a January son who was bored to death the first 3 years...but now it is evening out).   Good luck with whatever you decide!  (and don't let someone else make the call for you...if the school didn't want June/July August kids in Kindergarten, then they should change the cut off date!)
But if you're in an area where waiting is common, then your not "holding them back", you're starting them "early".
I would rather have a kid that's older and bored in some areas (you can give more or different work for that) than a child that is "challenged" which could lead to discouragement. Unfortunately you don't know until you're there, and then it's too late.

you also have the ability as a parent to teach them as well not everything has to come from the classroom if they arent stimulated.
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StarBright

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2017, 09:47:42 AM »

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).


I think the above is really important and I'm glad that Pyschstache mentioned it.

Our oldest is right on the cusp (he would turn 5 two weeks after K started) and we opted to start him next year. One of the biggest reasons was that current expectations do seem to be developmentally inappropriate. We hope the extra year in pre-k will help him enjoy school more now. And he seems to be learning a ton through play-based interaction.

Another note on developmentally inappropriate stuff- ie Homework for 5 year olds.  Our pre-k and pre-school both send weekly homework packets home for our children. I've told both teachers that we will not be doing weekly homework assignments (especially for our 3 year old).  They argued a bit at first but I convinced them that it wasn't my own "laziness" as one called it, but a deep belief that it is not good for them. It is worth mentioning to a teacher. In most states the teacher is simply required to Assign the homework. If the child is mastering the skills without homework, the teacher may not mind that much.

A thought I've been having lately related to red-shirting. When the coursework for Kindergarten is so inappropriate that many parents feel a need to red shirt their kids just to pass kindergarten - isn't it really first grade? and if so- why don't we go back to 5 year olds going to play based kindergarten and "formal" education starting first grade at age 6

erutio

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2017, 09:57:59 AM »

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).

. One of the biggest reasons was that current expectations do seem to be developmentally inappropriate.

I am not in early education or childhood development, so this is an honest question out of curiousity.  What are some examples of the current expectations that are "developmentally inappropriate" for 5 year olds?  Thanks.

boarder42

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2017, 09:59:49 AM »
wait you get homework in kindergarten now?
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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2017, 09:59:56 AM »

A thought I've been having lately related to red-shirting. When the coursework for Kindergarten is so inappropriate that many parents feel a need to red shirt their kids just to pass kindergarten - isn't it really first grade? and if so- why don't we go back to 5 year olds going to play based kindergarten and "formal" education starting first grade at age 6

Totally agree. I am still shocked at what work is required for 1st and 2nd grade. It's a whole different world than when we went to school. I think this is the reason"red shirting" has become popular, not because of sports or competitive parents.
With our oldest we did a year of full time Montessori for pre-K. That allowed him the freedom to learn at his own pace and focus on doing work that he really enjoyed, which was science and math. My youngest is doing the same, but he prefers to spend his time doing art at school. It seems to be a great (however expensive) intro into kindergarten.
Honestly I would prefer that my children could do Montessori K-4th or 6th grade, but it's not an option for us.

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2017, 10:00:37 AM »
It is interesting that the cut off isn't the calendar year.  Here (Canada), it all goes by calendar year, so all kids born in 2012 will be in the same class regardless of whether they are born in January or December. In those first few years, the difference is noticeable for sure...buy by the time they hit grade 2 or 3...it isn't anymore.  I would register her and just move forward with it.  I wouldn't want to hold my child back and have them be a year behind their peers when they are teens, young adults because of a few months difference when they are 4.  My daughter is also 4 and was born August 18th and going to kindergarten in Sept as well.  There will be (January) kids who might be a bit further ahead...but honestly, who cares...then she will learn from them!  I'd rather have my child be challenged than bored (I have a January son who was bored to death the first 3 years...but now it is evening out).   Good luck with whatever you decide!  (and don't let someone else make the call for you...if the school didn't want June/July August kids in Kindergarten, then they should change the cut off date!)
Canada has cut offs as well, here it's Jan 31. 

I had a friend/neighbor who was 1 year younger with a shared birthday (so he was exactly 365 days younger) and 2 grades lower. In the 80's there was red shirting in Canada as well, in my case I was the youngest in my class and he was the oldest.

Throughout school there's differences. I needed to catch up in grade 1 when I fell behind in reading, I was assigned 1 on 1 time with the specialist, I was slightly behind due to my age, it lasted a few months I was the last to get my drivers license in my peer group, my classmates got use to me asking for rides for a year. I was one of the last in my class to hit puberty (not the last, I was ahead of the average age but started up to 11 months behind), I fell behind on sports for a year, after puberty my size was the same but sports can be a big deal to some kids. Lets be honest, youngest kids in the class generally hit all the milestones after the oldest kids, its how life works.

I capped it off with moving out at 17.5 years old. One of the logical outcomes with starting early is finishing early and moving on early. If I had been delayed I would have moved out at 18.5 years, my parents would have had one more year with me. The easiest way to sum up the merits for red shirting is what's the rush to grow up? Its the journey and not the finish line that matters in life, make the journey the best for you and your child. Do you want your child to get a job and move out a year early? That's the benefit of affluence, poor people need to have their kids move out to save food costs (among other childhood expenses), rich families can absorb the extra costs.

My children will be on the older side of their classes. I look forward to the extra year at home when they get older.

erutio

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2017, 10:02:22 AM »
wait you get homework in kindergarten now?

I dont remember homework for K, wow.
But I did have homework assigned every week 1st grade and 2-3 times per week 2nd grade.  This was early 80s.

BeanCounter

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2017, 10:05:03 AM »

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).

. One of the biggest reasons was that current expectations do seem to be developmentally inappropriate.

I'm not an educator and I'm not sure that it was "developmentally inappropriate", but my child was expected to be reading at a level D and taking Accelerated Reader tests on comprehension at the end of Kindergarten as well as doing some creative writing stories (even if they had to phonetically do the spelling for their story). When I was in Kinder (35 years ago), we spent Kindergarten learning the letters and their sounds. And counting.

edited to try and fix the quote.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 10:07:26 AM by BeanCounter »

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2017, 10:06:32 AM »
our child is expected around the end of august.  my wife and i both prefer to hold our child back one year.  Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's book outliers.  its a good read.  it focuses on timing and a lot of it revolves around sports.  for example the cut off for baseball is typically June 1 so the kid born june 2nd is playing with younger kids and looks bigger better faster stronger.  not coincidentally most baseball players are born in the summer months of June July and August.  Why? b/c they looked better than the competition and were given more opportunities to succeed.  Personally i think the same applies to schooling.  A child that is older has a more developed brain and will appear to be a faster learner than the rest.  Giving them a leg up and confidence on top of everything else.  not to mention if they play sports too they will be bigger/older than most allwoing them a better chance to make the teams since they are grade based not age based.

+1

My son was born in early Sept and we put him in school when he was eligible.
He was extremely smart (of course I would say this), but his social skills were a little lacking.

He was crazy about sports, but stopped playing basketball in middle school. The other kids had gone thru puberty and we much bigger/aggressive ...

Edit: DS2 was born in April, he made it on time. Even a few months time make a lot of difference in maturity.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 10:10:08 AM by CowboyAndIndian »

StarBright

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2017, 10:11:17 AM »

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).

. One of the biggest reasons was that current expectations do seem to be developmentally inappropriate.

I am not in early education or childhood development, so this is an honest question out of curiousity.  What are some examples of the current expectations that are "developmentally inappropriate" for 5 year olds?  Thanks.

I'm not in education either but from doing  a lot of research the biggest issues for us were: nightly homework, a short recess only twice a week, and too much sitting still time in desks. Also I feel like our district uses ipads and screen time way too much at a young age so I am happy to delay that for a year.

For actual educational requirements, too many worksheets and the expectation that the child can read, write sentences, add, subtract and be learning basic multiplication by the end of kindergarten. Basically to get through the homework and worksheets your child should know how to read and write before they start kindergarten (at least that is how it feels in our school district.)


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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2017, 10:39:28 AM »
I don't think there's any real bad long term effect from repeating kindergarten - IF your child can get past the stigma of flunking a year of school. For some, that propels them into a self-fulfilling prophecy of believing they are bad at school. If you go with putting your child into kindergarten now, I suggest now, before they start, have a conversation with them about it, that they are entering it a year ahead of many children and that you expect them to repeat it once when they are the same age as their classmates.

I don't want to call it brainwashing ... but that's what it is. Brainwashing them into understanding that what they are doing is advanced, and keep that messaging up throughout the year. If they are struggling with a concept, you just keep repeating "Wow, I'm so impressed that you are trying this, when it's aimed at people a year older than you. That's like your classmates doing work from the first grade room!"

At the end of the year, either they move ahead and all is good, or they repeat the year, but they are prepped to spend the rest of their school career explaining (to themselves or friends) that they repeated kindergarten because they did the first year of it at a super young age - not that they were "too stupid" for kindergarten or developmentally slow in some way.

Another thing to consider is whether - once your child is in kindergarten - there is outside pressure on their teacher to inflate their grades or promote them to the next grade whether or not they are ready. There can be a lot of pressure on teachers to make it look like all their kids are succeeding. If children in the classroom aren't ready for an activity and can't master it yet, the administrators may evaluate the teacher as "ineffective" - even though it's more a statement about the maturity of the kids than the teacher. And if a school has to hold a child back a grade, that might be a thing they have to report to the state, which can effect their school rating, their funding, all sorts of things.

It may actually be easier to put them in another local school kindergarten if you have schools of choice where you live, and then transfer them to their final local school district, so the receiving school doesn't have motivation to push them through to first grade if they aren't ready for it. You'd have to do more research on the feasibility of that. If it's doable, it might also help remove stigma for your child to restart kindergarten in a new school, so they aren't faced with seeing all their friends moved to first grade, and all their friends aren't knowing them as "that kid who flunked."

Captain FIRE

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2017, 10:55:03 AM »
The fact that your elementary is the 'best in the state' would also worry me. These are the kinds of schools where average kiddos get referred and lots of concern because advanced = average, and average = behind. Could be a lot of pressure for a younger cohort Kinder kiddo.

I wonder if the blue ribbon school just wants to keep that appearance up?  Ask the teacher detailed questions about why she's not ready - and listen carefully to the answers with an open mind.

FYI, the assumption that younger students won't do as well may not be accurate:
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/youngest-kid-smartest-kid

I'm an August baby, and I started on-time so I was always the youngest in my grade.  I did extremely well academically - gifted & talented programs, scholarships, ivy league college, etc.  And this began early - in 2nd grade I was offered a slot in the 2/3rd grade split class they had (they sought advanced 2nd graders and average 3rd graders).  Socially, my folks were only worried because I was small for my age.  I honestly didn't even realize I was one of the youngest kids in my grade until 8th, when the English teacher had us sit by age.  Re sports - well, it probably depends on what sport you do.  I did fairly well in a variety of sports (including state championships for one) and was generally "athletic", but was never going to win an athletic scholarship.

amazing research from a sample size of one .. yourself.

Forum rules, play nicely?  No need for snark.

I posted first an article, which references data/studies of many.  I've excerpted part of it below, since it seems you didn't read it.  Because a lot of people were posting about their personal stories, I posted mine as a counterpoint.  I'm not sure why it's ok to post on the other side without criticism or snark, but not on this side.

Quote
The data, however, belies this assumption. While earlier studies have argued that redshirted children do better both socially and academically—citing data on school evaluations, leadership positions, and test scores—more recent analyses suggest that the opposite may well be the case: the youngest kids, who barely make the age cutoff but are enrolled anyway, ultimately end up on top—not their older classmates. When a group of economists followed Norwegian children born between 1962 and 1988, until the youngest turned eighteen, in 2006, they found that, at age eighteen, children who started school a year later had I.Q. scores that were significantly lower than their younger counterparts. Their earnings also suffered: through age thirty, men who started school later earned less. A separate study, of the entire Swedish population born between 1935 and 1984, came to a similar conclusion: in the course of the life of a typical Swede, starting school later translated to reduced over-all earnings. In a 2008 study at Harvard University, researchers found that, within the U.S., increased rates of redshirting were leading to equally worrisome patterns. The delayed age of entry, the authors argued, resulted in academic stagnation: it decreased completion rates for both high-school and college students, increased the gender gap in graduation rates (men fell behind women), and intensified socioeconomic differences.

As it turns out, the benefits of being older and more mature may not be as important as the benefits of being younger than your classmates. In 2007, the economists Elizabeth Cascio and Diane Whitmore Schanzenbach decided to analyze the data of Tennessee’s Project STAR—an experiment originally designed to test the effects of classroom size on learning—with a different set of considerations: How would the relative class composition affect student performance? Their approach differed from most studies of redshirting in one crucial way: the students had been assigned totally randomly to their kindergarten classrooms, with no option for parents to lobby for, say, a different teacher, a different school, or a class in which the child would have some other perceived or actual relative advantage. This led to true experimental variation in relative age and maturity. That is, the same student could be relatively younger in one class, but relatively older in another, depending on his initial class assignment. The researchers discovered that relatively more mature students didn’t have an academic edge; instead, when they looked at their progress at the end of kindergarten, and, later, when they reached middle school, they were worse off in multiple respects. Not only did they score significantly lower on achievement tests—both in kindergarten and middle school—they were also more likely to have been kept back a year by the time they reached middle school, and were less likely to take college-entrance exams. The less mature students, on the other hand, experienced positive effects from being in a relatively more mature environment: in striving to catch up with their peers, they ended up surpassing them.

[snip]

Few researchers would dispute that, in the immediate term, being relatively bigger, quicker, smarter, and stronger is a good thing.  Repeatedly, the studies have found exactly that—older kindergarten students perform better on tests, receive better teacher evaluations, and do better socially. But then, something happens: after that early boost, their performance takes a nosedive. By the time they get to eighth grade, any disparity has largely evened out—and, by college, younger students repeatedly outperform older ones in any given year.

Why would that be the case? It all comes back to that relative difference: if you are always bigger and smarter, you may be more likely to get bored, and to think that everything—learning included—should come easily. You don’t have to strive and overcome obstacles in the form of older, more developed kids. If, on the other hand, you’re on the younger end of the spectrum, you are constantly forced to reach for your limits. And unlike in sports, where physical size often plays an undeniable, difficult-to-circumvent role in your eventual success, in school a physical disadvantage can turn into an academic advantage: children may learn to compete where they can succeed, where their persistence and attention can accomplish what their physical size may not.

These skills translate to a mindset that is crucial to lifelong achievement. In a way, the choice between redshirting and not is the choice between providing your child with a maturity boost or a challenge. While there is certainly an absolute benefit to being bigger and stronger, learning to deal with and overcome obstacles also has a long-lasting effect. It’s a quality the psychologist Angela Duckworth calls “grit,” and Carol Dweck dubs the “incremental mindset”: the knowledge that perseverance, dedication, and motivation can help you where an absolute advantage may not immediately come to the rescue. If you’ve always been praised as the best and brightest, chances are that that self-perception will eventually backfire; if you’ve had to earn your distinctions, they’re more likely to last.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 12:33:22 PM by Captain FIRE »

SisterX

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2017, 12:18:22 PM »
Regarding size, why do so many people assume that matters? I was born in the middle of the year and was always the smallest kid in the class. I knew it, they knew it, and after some initial teasing when I just owned my height it was never a thing again. Teaching your kids resilience, and that there will always be differences among people, is far more important than some arbitrary notion that height is super important. Also, puberty. My family starts puberty late, so the fact that I was a middle-of-the-year kid meant absolutely nothing in terms of that. If I'd started school early I still would have been considered "late" in some ways. There's an average time and some kids will start earlier or later no matter what. My best friend got her period when she was nine, long before they started teaching about puberty in school. This has not affected our grownup lives whatsoever.

I expect that my daughter will also be among the shortest in her class, no matter what year we enroll her in. She's got a mid-November birthday and I'm giving serious consideration to trying to test her into kindergarten early or just skipping kindergarten when the time comes and going straight to 1st grade. Why? Because she learns better from older kids. She's super helpful and loves helping other kids, but in terms of learning she does far better when she sees older kids doing something. She's better on her balance bike than the 6-year-old next door because she saw the other kid doing a skill and then realized she could too. Then she mastered it before the 6-yr-old. My concerns about enrolling early only have to do with attention span, which is why it's still up in the air. We'll see what her attention span is like when the time comes, and look into other factors such as how much recess she'd get. I'd also only enroll her in 1/2-day kindergarten if she starts early. I remember being bored and I'd rather have my (smart) kid challenged than bored all day long.

So, as to your situation. As others have said, talk to your pre-k teacher. Look at what skills your kid is supposed to have before kindergarten and see if there's anything you can work on. Look at how your kid learns and attention span. What it comes down to is, will being one of the oldest in the class work best with your kid's personality, or will being one of the youngest and working harder for everything be the best prompt? There's no right or wrong answer, it's what will work best for your individual kid. We can give all the advice and examples in the world, but in the end none of us knows your kid. You do.

StarBright

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2017, 12:44:31 PM »

I'm not an educator and I'm not sure that it was "developmentally inappropriate", but my child was expected to be reading at a level D and taking Accelerated Reader tests on comprehension at the end of Kindergarten as well as doing some creative writing stories (even if they had to phonetically do the spelling for their story). When I was in Kinder (35 years ago), we spent Kindergarten learning the letters and their sounds. And counting.


BeanCounter- Exactly! Back when I was a youngn' (30 years ago ;) Kindergarten was about 3 hours long and I remember lots of "circle time", singing songs, alphabet games, learning to tie my shoes, playing at various stations and show and tell.

My son's kindergarten will run 6.5 hours a day and they have actual desks in the classroom and a full schedule of math, language, reading etc - definitely closer to what I experienced in first and second grade.


mm1970

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2017, 01:03:59 PM »
Hi all - we have a 4 yo girl that is enrolled half-time in Pre-K for $2k per year. She is  eligible to start free Kindegarten in August. She turns 5 days before school starts - cutoff is Sept 1, her birthday is August 27.

Many parents around here hold their younger kids back for a variety of reasons, sports or feeling like their kids are not intellectually/emotionally ready.

If I read the K prerequisite knowledge requirements, my daughter meets them today, let alone in 7 months' time, I hope she can be starting to read more. Her Pre-K teacher does not think my daughter is ready, but I can't tell if it is because all her peers are 5+  and will be going on 6 for K. The teacher says that my daughter is one of the first kids to help another kid if he falls down and rsteshigh on social skills.I hate that other parents make this competitive and hold back kids with June and July birthdays.

We also work on writing/problem solving/tracing/etc worksheets with our daughter (no other parent I have spoken to does this) and build in counting, learning letters in everything we do throughout our day.

My husband and I were thinking about enrolling her in free K (it's a half day program) and if need be, hold her back and do second year of Kindegarten. I hate holding her back already, without giving her a chance to try it first. Plus, I don't want to spend more money on Pre-K.

BTW - our local public school is one of the best in the state. Enrollment is just a few weeks away for Aug 2017.

Anyone have similar experience? Thoughts? Thanks!

Oh boy.  So.  My son is 4.5 and will turn 5 in July.  There is a massive discussion among my mom's group about this, particularly for moms of boys.  Our group's birthdays are June through early August.  One of my teacher friends says "always hold back boys".

I am not holding my son back.  I've read the requirements, both academic and social.  He's ready.  Regardless, our school will have an assessment either during the summer or the first week of school.  If he's NOT ready they would move him into TK (transitional kindergarten).  After that, the school would make a recommendation on whether to do kinder again or move to first.

We are in a district with a great deal of English learners and poor kids.  My older son was way ahead in kindergarten - he was a March baby when Dec 1 was the cutoff AND many of his classmates did not go to preschool, and also were learning English.

So.  With all of that considered, my English speaking kindergartener with a big brother in 6th grade will do JUST FINE.

However, you just never know.  Some parents want their kids to be bigger, and better, and the smartest in the class.  Um...yeah, I don't know what to say about that.  It can really make it even worse for teachers and the disparity.  I have a friend who has taught in the poorest school in the district and a private school. Private school kids are 6 when they start kinder, and prior to the introduction of  TK, the poorest kids started at 4.75.

Other friends are holding their kids back because they are autistic or are not EMOTIONALLY ready.  That is totally valid. Some kids aren't academically ready - they don't know any letters yet (FYI, kinder today is like 1st was when I was a kid).  That's a good reason.

But holding a kid back because they would be middle of the pack, but not super duper number one best?  Meh.

mm1970

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2017, 01:21:13 PM »

In my state, the rigor of the Kinder curriculum is BRUTAL. In the last few years, the expectations have ramped up to a developmentally inappropriate level for 5 year olds. But what do I know, It's not like I spent all my time in grad school studying childhood developmental psychology. Better to trust our state congress to know what is best (Grr. Sorry, got off on a tangent).

. One of the biggest reasons was that current expectations do seem to be developmentally inappropriate.

Well, I remember napping in kindergarten and learning to share.

We took a tour of our home school, and the principal was talking about the importance of reading in kindergarten.

Um...that's great?  But my older son didn't read until the middle of first grade.  Requiring 5 year olds to take reading tests seems a bit much. Some kids excel at reading (my son's best buddy was reading at a first grade level at age 4).  But many kids will get discouraged.
I am not in early education or childhood development, so this is an honest question out of curiousity.  What are some examples of the current expectations that are "developmentally inappropriate" for 5 year olds?  Thanks.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 10:41:48 AM by mm1970 »

Gal2016

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
Both of my kids are among the youngest in their classes.  Cut-off here is July 1st and my kids were born in mid-May and in June.  We had them start right on time -- mostly because I didn't even know red-shirting was even a thing. Seriously?!  If everyone is doing it, it's not much of an advantage, is it?

Anyway, I digress.  My son (born in May) was always one of the biggest kids in his class despite being the youngest. Very athletic and very social.  He's the golden boy.  My daughter, born in June, has never been all that great academically, but I've never really attributed that to her age (but more her internal make-up ADD without hyperactivity).

Every kid is a little different.

littlebird

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2017, 03:58:55 PM »
If you think you may end up having to repeat kindergarten, I would wait. I still remember the kid that got held back in K at my school and it's been 25 years. He faced a huge social stigma for "flunking" that followed him through his school career. Just something to consider.

Secret Agent Mom

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2017, 10:14:46 PM »
I have older kids who went to 'normal' kindergarten... then my 3rd went.  IT's like 1st grade.  They expect kids to sit and do papers, listen, memorize sight words (80+), and really learn to read.  Recess is short, kids don't  physically move enough.   There is a reason your PreK teacher is telling you to wait.  You are NOT holding your child back, you are gifting her an extra year of childhood.  That's how you need to start looking at it. 

You mention specifically mention the option to hold her and re-do if she really isn't ready, but please also consider that her self-esteem is as important as her maturity to handle the workload.  Not being able to keep up makes kids feel stupid and get frustrated.  Every kindergarten teacher I have spoken to have said that K is now 1st grade, and kids are suffering for it.  They need to be moving more.  It isn't about letters and knowledge, it's about the ability to sit and focus for long periods of time.  This is what is not developmentally appropriate. 

Thankfully my boys were over 5.5 when they went.  If they had been summer birthdays, I would have held them back.

moof

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2017, 10:31:44 PM »
Our 4 year old misses the cutoff by 3 days to start this fall.  He is big for his age, so petitoning to go early is on our mind.  So thank you all for the discussion, it is useful to hear the broad range of thinking.

Ours is normal for development besides his height/weight, so our default is to just let him be the oldest/tallest in his class.  I skipped three years of high school, and it was the right thing for me, so I am hoping our kid won't end up un-challenged and bored like I was.  We shall see.

mxt0133

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Re: Red-shirting child? Delay Kindegarten?
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2017, 02:11:21 AM »
I can just picture in a few decades we'll have a bunch of 10 year olds in kindergarten.  That would very entertaining to see.

One can find evidence to support both sides of the argument if red shirting is advantageous or not.  One thing that is rarely disputed when it comes to academic success is the level parents involvement in their children's education and the child's household socioeconomic status.  So that fact that you are on this site and are even thinking about red shirting gives your child a leg up on most kids.

The current research on the advantages of red shirting is also a poor sample due to the fact that most families that consciously red shirt are highly educated and in a stable financial position to afford the extra year in day care of have a SAHP*.  So when evaluating if red shirting provides any measurable differences  the researcher can't control of socioeconomic status and education level. 

To those that point out the benefits when it comes to athletics, yes older children will more than likely have an advantage to younger children but size is not the only factor.  Actual skill is equally if not more important than size and that is mostly a function of practice and coaching, which is highly correlated to the families ability to afford lessons, enrollment in leagues/clubs, travel teams ect.

My wife and I had a similar dilemma when deciding to homeschool or not.  I was so focused on the pro's and cons I was going around in circles.  Here we are living in a city with free public schools and we were thinking it still wasn't good enough for our kids.  Compared to the schools I went to our neighborhood public schools are elite institutions.  Eventually we decided to homeschool primarily because it was a better fit for our family and not because we thought it was significantly better academically.  Kids turn out great or messed up either way.

https://msu.edu/~telder/2010-EER.pdf