Author Topic: Paying off daughter's student loans  (Read 12967 times)

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2020, 08:55:52 AM »
I have two sisters and a SIL., all in their 40s, who majored in Psychology. What a freakin' waste of time. One sister actually did work in HR, not because it had any relevance but because it was the highest-paying job she could get with an otherwise useless degree. She did it for 8 years, hated it, got married and has been a SAHM ever since. Other sister ended up being some NYC financial douche's assistant for years but through working for a private equity firm became an analyst. SIL ended up working in the front desk of a hotel briefly before getting married and being a SAHM.

My theory is that Psych attracts young women because young women have a lot of drama in their lives - and my sisters and SIL grew up before social media. We have friends who both have PhDs in psych. One is a therapist and one is a college professor. But -- good grief - who wants to spend their entire 20s in college pursuing a field that may or may not lead to anything?

Her 2 engineer parents (me and X) were deeply concerned with her choice.  And I do think her attraction to the field came from drama but not the shallow facebook kind of high school bullshit. 

Her grandfather (my FIL) died when she was 17 and his long decline took a toll on the extended family.  There was lots of fighting on that side of the family with my narcissist SIL leading the way and all kinds of past transgressions among the 4 siblings surfaced.  Horrible time.  My daughter thought  the family desperately needed to sit down and work out the problems and try to rally for grandpa, especially to support the caregiver fatigue my MIL was going through as his nursemaid.  She was ailing herself but couldn't take any time to recover and end up dying only one year later, a complete spiral downward after her work on this earth was done. 

So DD pursued psych.  She got an extra certification so she could work with death and dying patients and has a medical endorsement which allows her to be part of the care team along side doctors and surgeons.  Her internships were at the cancer institute at the major hospital where she lives and her volunteer work was with children grieving the death of parents and siblings.  Unfortunately most hospitals want to hire licensed social workers rather than MFTs (government reimbursement rules apparently) so she did not snag a permanent role there and instead has been doing crisis counseling. 

That girl has balls.  I could not do what she has done and I understand why she wants to leave it.  The "I told you so" thing is real in my mind but she is suffering consequences enough.  She made the choice to pursue the career from a place of empathy and purpose to help her fellow human. 

I have no idea how it is going to turn out but my philosophy is life has always been that People Cope.  She will figure it out.       

wellactually

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2020, 09:54:15 AM »
How demeaning to say young women are making choices about their education because they like drama.

OP, sounds like your daughter has a lot of emotional intelligence. I know several people who went into psychology because of similar strengths in EQ.

Personally I have a degree in middle school math education and have never specifically used that degree, but it's still not meaningless. The masters is the sticking point, not the undergrad psych degree. But regardless, everyone I've known who did case management or crisis counseling did not last more than a couple years. It's excruciatingly difficult.

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2020, 07:04:12 AM »
How demeaning to say young women are making choices about their education because they like drama.

+1.  The young women I know who were drawn to psychology did it because they wanted to help people, and that seemed like an approachable route to do so.  I mean, if you want to help people physically, you need med school, residency, six-figure debt (on top of undergrad debt), and all of that; there's a very high barrier to entry at all, and then years of trial and low pay before you are allowed to go out and make a real living at it.  But if you want to help people mentally, you can get a psych degree in 4 years and go into counseling, maybe topping out at a MSW for some jobs.  So I can see how psych seems both more achievable and the financially better choice.

Also note that girls in general tend to underrate their own talents and abilities.  So I bet you're going to see a higher percentage of girls pick the more-approachable psych path, just because they don't think they could make it through med school.

AMandM

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2020, 11:39:56 AM »
How demeaning to say young women are making choices about their education because they like drama.

LiveLean didn't say it was because they *like* drama, but because they experience it. IOW, maybe they go into psych to help others avoid the unpleasantness they themselves suffered.

Kem

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2020, 12:33:38 PM »
I'm late to the party, and what you are doing is amazing.

I went through school, rather than using my own noggin, took out well over 6 figures of student loan debt, financed, cars, etc based on the advice of my peers & elders.

It was the pain of having to realize I'd dug myself a hole and the need to pick myself up that set me towards the path of FI.

If you can spare another that pain, awesome --- I am curious if some of the lessons can be imparted in the process?  Perhaps request that in return for setting aside payments of the first couple years worth of debt - the kiddo must read Simple Path to Wealth, ChooseFi, etc and leave it at that.  If zero cost budgeting & optimizing expenses is your thing - leave an opened ended offer to help setup, quarterly tweak, & optimize (without judgement)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 12:35:47 PM by Kem »

StashingAway

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2020, 01:20:34 PM »
I want to pile on another vote for putting in as much $ as you helped out your other daughter in her 5th year.

I have siblings, and my parents were sensitive to being fair with distribution. It wasn't all dolled out in even amounts, but say one of them needed help with a down payment to get at 20% and above PMI... a year later I get a gift check to account for that difference. We all get a pretty fair balance and while none of us ask for it, it makes us feel very aware of our connection as a family. I honestly don't need the $, but it is nice that my parents were thinking of it as well as nips any potential feelings of resentment in the bud.

This is especially true if you're trying to help out but don't want it to feel like a crutch. Tying it to a family support affair makes it less of a handout and more of a "we're all in this together"

Civex

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2020, 12:38:41 PM »
I'm closish in age and situation to your daughter and would either match payments made or make a lump sum gift similar what was given to your other daughter if you want to help.

You have already given both of your daughters an amazing gift by paying for undergrad.

I think wanting out of a profession after only 18 months isn't reasonable-try changing the area of concentration, or employers first before hanging it up. If she is dedicated to changing to a lower paying career I would let her struggle a bit. Working through the consequences and ownership of decisions will help her in the future.

I graduated 6ish years ago with ~$100k in debt after paying my way through undergrad and grad and took what I thought was an amazing job offer and moved to a new state. I *absolutely* hated the job and was just crushed by it for 2 years, but because I had the loans I couldn't take an easier or more enjoyable, lower paying job. I got to experience the struggle of finding a new job in a saturated market and deal with job rejections and failed interviews. I eventually fell into an amazing, rewarding position that had I bailed out of the profession (which I had wanted desperately to do) I would have missed out on.

If she were >5 years into her profession, hated it, and wanted to change careers, but was hamstrung by the loans I would say absolutely help out.


stashja

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2020, 01:50:39 PM »
Please don't tie it to marriage, even as a surprise. Think what that would teach your younger daughter. I know this well, as women in my family who are essentially unemployable get regarded for marrying, with house down payments and so on. I used to be jealous until they all got divorced, while frugal partner (okay, husband, but wasn't then) and I are still going strong.

HotTubes

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2020, 03:42:10 PM »
So, how did this work out?  Very nice of you to try to help but I strongly agree with the point about staying in the same field and shifting the focus.  HR is not where this person wants to be (I do some HR functions at work)

Obviously it was written at the tippy top of a market that might not return for months or years, did that weigh in?

My god, February seems like a lifetime ago...

Dicey

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2020, 05:32:39 AM »
So, how did this work out?  Very nice of you to try to help but I strongly agree with the point about staying in the same field and shifting the focus.  HR is not where this person wants to be (I do some HR functions at work)

Obviously it was written at the tippy top of a market that might not return for months or years, did that weigh in?

My god, February seems like a lifetime ago...
@HotTubes, using a Batsignal might help with a reply, like this: @MissNancyPryor

HotTubes

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2020, 02:47:32 PM »
So, how did this work out?  Very nice of you to try to help but I strongly agree with the point about staying in the same field and shifting the focus.  HR is not where this person wants to be (I do some HR functions at work)

Obviously it was written at the tippy top of a market that might not return for months or years, did that weigh in?

My god, February seems like a lifetime ago...
@HotTubes, using a Batsignal might help with a reply, like this: @MissNancyPryor

ah okay thanks

HotTubes

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2020, 03:09:45 PM »
Thanks @Dicey.

@HotTubes I gave her a lump sum with no strings.  We will see what she does with it.  I have encouraged her to keep paying during the relief package interest moratorium since she is fully employed and can drive the principle balance lower.  Hiring everywhere is on hold so she is in limbo on the career move.   

You are saying she doesn't want to be in HR because you don't enjoy it yourself, or is there something else?

That's very nice of you.   I'm fine with HR stuff, but I used to be a defense-side litigator.

Now I work with a lot of progressives - social service types, MSWs, Psych degrees.  HR is for business types.

HR types love rules, black and white, cleanly-drawn lines.  Social service people are comfortable with ambiguity and aspirations.

There's some overlap (she could be a trainer who teaches other HR people to be more empathetic) but I've found that those fields attract divergent types.

If I were still trying negligence lawsuits, I'd want all psych majors if I'm the plaintiff and all HR people if I'm the defendant.

Lots of exceptions that prove the rule, of course.

Cassie

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2020, 10:37:31 PM »
I spent my career in that field and with her masterís degree she has choices. She should find a job less stressful. Maybe as a EAP counselor for companies or doing discharge planning when people leave the hospital.

debittogether

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2020, 12:58:23 PM »
Also having worked in HR I agree with @HotTubes , the role of HR is to protect the employer first and foremost.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2021, 12:20:50 PM »
So, how did this work out? 

I paid off her debt completely in July 2021 in one lump sum.  It was just over $130K.     

She got a job in HR in 2020 and will take the PHR test shortly to move up in her career.  It was exactly the right move for her to get out of therapy and apply her degrees in this way and she is thriving.  She remains the solid, kind, and smart woman she has always been.  Since moving back to her hometown (yay!) for that HR job she found a really good guy and will probably marry him in 2022.  She gobbled up JL Collins' book and has declared she will be retired far earlier than standard retirement age.  Good Guy agrees.  She has witnessed the power of FIRE and aspires to it.

I also got some really good advice from these boards on how to fill out the 709 form to avoid gift tax.

It all worked out perfectly.

I used the IBKR margin magic to be able to pay this off in one lump without having to sell six figures of stock.  I cleared the margin this month and am closing my IBKR account.  I should really update that thread, too.     



   

clifp

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2021, 02:06:57 PM »
I'm curious how you will feel if Biden goes ahead and cancels $50K in student loans?

Regardless of the merits of the proposal, I think there would a significant fairness issue.

I think if someone asked the question today. My answer would be not only no but hell no.  Pay their student loan for them, or even give them the money. Or just pay off any private student loans they have.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2021, 03:12:14 PM »
I'm curious how you will feel if Biden goes ahead and cancels $50K in student loans?

Regardless of the merits of the proposal, I think there would a significant fairness issue.

I think if someone asked the question today. My answer would be not only no but hell no.  Pay their student loan for them, or even give them the money. Or just pay off any private student loans they have.

I think it is beyond obscene that they are suggesting such a bailout and therefore I put my money where my mouth is and paid in full.  My daughter and those like her should not receive such largesse on the backs of tax payers; her privileged choices should not be paid for by anonymous people who have nothing to do with her life and receive no benefit from her relief.  I believe that waiving away enormous debt for so many would make today's inflation look like the nostalgic good old days and that situation will most-affect the poorest people who pay no taxes at all.   

If the politician asshats who are trying to buy votes magically write off some amount I will not feel bad that I, a multi-millionaire, missed out.  And I will vote them out of office. 

Further, the odds of this happening in her specific case were as close to zero as you can get -- these were graduate school loans to a private college and she is white.  She isn't on the list.  If she was on the list we should resent it.  Obscene.

I hope that the coronageddon and the close examination of the crap shoveled at college kids under the label of "higher learning" gets people to stop the madness of insisting that college is required for everyone.  It would be nice to see a strong vocational and certificate-driven workforce emerge from the bullshittery of the masses of those holding PhD's in Left Handed Puppetry (h/t Ramsey), who have zero earning ability and no benefit to society other than their teaching Critical Left Handed Puppet Theory to others.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2021, 10:28:54 PM »
How demeaning to say young women are making choices about their education because they like drama.


Agreed; they also like shopping!

Chris Pascale

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2021, 10:34:58 PM »
I think you'd be giving her a wonderful gift, but are having doubts about if it's the right thing to do.

What is it that would lead you to want to pay her loans? Why would you not?

This isn't related to her loans, but does she think HR is like being a counselor? That she'll use her education in a corporate setting?

My personal approach is that I do not owe my kids an education. However, I'll pay for community college then a state school. Daughter No. 2 applied to some colleges away from home and I let her know that if she can get the cost down to $11,000 a year (local state school costs) we can do it, so she's exploring scholarships, and I told her that if she worked to cover the difference, that's fine, too. Thankfully she's too young to apply for a loan or she might in her haste. I've told them I'll pay for medical or dental school (I'd probably pay for other graduate programs, too), but my reason for that is because I do not think medical school should cost anything. Our country needs doctors, and health is a matter of national security.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 10:43:40 PM by Chris Pascale »

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2021, 09:28:51 AM »
I think you'd be giving her a wonderful gift, but are having doubts about if it's the right thing to do.

What is it that would lead you to want to pay her loans? Why would you not?

This isn't related to her loans, but does she think HR is like being a counselor? That she'll use her education in a corporate setting?

My personal approach is that I do not owe my kids an education. However, I'll pay for community college then a state school. Daughter No. 2 applied to some colleges away from home and I let her know that if she can get the cost down to $11,000 a year (local state school costs) we can do it, so she's exploring scholarships, and I told her that if she worked to cover the difference, that's fine, too. Thankfully she's too young to apply for a loan or she might in her haste. I've told them I'll pay for medical or dental school (I'd probably pay for other graduate programs, too), but my reason for that is because I do not think medical school should cost anything. Our country needs doctors, and health is a matter of national security.

The answers to your questions are within the thread so I won't rehash, but you bring up something that is interesting to me. 

If Society (capital S) pays for free college or wipes away student debt we should be able to say which degrees we will support.  College that is a pursuit of knowledge but not skill is not a direct benefit to the population and shouldn't be subsidized. 

I expect this stance is not popular with the political side most supportive of wiping away the debt, they seem to be far more likely to say "you can't tell me what to do" and "my puppetry degree helped me grow as a person" while also demanding they not be held accountable for that choice.  Many seem to look down on those holding 2 year degrees in vocational subjects like welding even though that welder will out-earn them multifold.  The elitism is incredible among the loudest voices.  (Obviously these are wildly broad statements that don't cover everyone.) 

As the payment moratorium was coming to a close (before it was extended again) I heard a report where borrowers were lamenting having to start paying again and they had several snippets from borrowers worried about the change and how life will be very difficult again.  What was missing was a question from the interviewer about "what did you study, and can you make money doing that thing you studied?"  Instead it was the stereotypical trope of baristas and service staff lamenting that they couldn't bear the thought of having to start paying again.  I think for many listening it would only reinforce the idea that the borrowers dug their own holes and they need to wise up and dig out of it themselves, and if the Government (capital G) decides that they need a clean slate it will enrage most average folk.  The political ad that shows a homeless veteran along side an angry, entitled millennial nibbling avocado toast is all it would take to scare the crap out of the political set that only looks for ways to stay in office rather than be any true help to the governed.           

onecoolcat

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2021, 09:50:15 AM »
I think you made the right decision.  The bottom line is if you can afford it without effecting your own retirement then it will be a wonderful gift.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2021, 09:56:19 AM by onecoolcat »

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #71 on: December 31, 2021, 12:51:28 PM »
I'm curious how you will feel if Biden goes ahead and cancels $50K in student loans?

Regardless of the merits of the proposal, I think there would a significant fairness issue.

I think if someone asked the question today. My answer would be not only no but hell no.  Pay their student loan for them, or even give them the money. Or just pay off any private student loans they have.

I think it is beyond obscene that they are suggesting such a bailout and therefore I put my money where my mouth is and paid in full.  My daughter and those like her should not receive such largesse on the backs of tax payers; her privileged choices should not be paid for by anonymous people who have nothing to do with her life and receive no benefit from her relief.  I believe that waiving away enormous debt for so many would make today's inflation look like the nostalgic good old days and that situation will most-affect the poorest people who pay no taxes at all.   

If the politician asshats who are trying to buy votes magically write off some amount I will not feel bad that I, a multi-millionaire, missed out.  And I will vote them out of office. 

Further, the odds of this happening in her specific case were as close to zero as you can get -- these were graduate school loans to a private college and she is white.  She isn't on the list.  If she was on the list we should resent it.  Obscene.

I hope that the coronageddon and the close examination of the crap shoveled at college kids under the label of "higher learning" gets people to stop the madness of insisting that college is required for everyone.  It would be nice to see a strong vocational and certificate-driven workforce emerge from the bullshittery of the masses of those holding PhD's in Left Handed Puppetry (h/t Ramsey), who have zero earning ability and no benefit to society other than their teaching Critical Left Handed Puppet Theory to others.

Just wanted to say kudos to you for this.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #72 on: December 31, 2021, 01:01:40 PM »

Log

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #73 on: December 31, 2021, 01:36:34 PM »
.
If Society (capital S) pays for free college or wipes away student debt we should be able to say which degrees we will support.  College that is a pursuit of knowledge but not skill is not a direct benefit to the population and shouldn't be subsidized. 

Hard disagree on this. Having a more educated populace is good for the entire society, full stop. These benefits are wide-ranging and impossible to quantify.

1) In many ways, college is the new high school. About 40% of Americans have undergraduate degrees, equivalent to the percentage of Americans with high school diplomas back in 1940. Free public high schools were pervasive long before that point. To say that high school and age 18 are forever and always the end of public-provided education is arbitrary and silly. And obviously that system is leaving us with an obscene proportion of the citizenry thatís practically illiterate and have no critical thinking abilities.

2) It makes an abundance of sense that as more un-skilled labor becomes automated, thereís more slack in the system for the workforce to shrink, and people will need more education to add value. By the way, that  shrinking workforce also buys workers more bargaining power to be treated with dignity even in unskilled work, which is re-balance that is sorely needed these days. Even those for whom college is ďnot the right fitĒ still deserve to live with dignity. Stuffing the un-skilled sector of the workforce with more kids who canít afford to continue their education just perpetuates the ability of the ruling class to exploit desperation to pay slave-wages.

3) I think itís a great thing for public funds to train software developers and engineers. Itís a great thing for public funds to train plumbers and welders. Itís a great thing for public funds to train therapists and journalists. Itís a great thing for public funds to train artists and writers. Itís a great thing for public funds to just educate someone in philosophy or psychology, even if they become a barista or a bartender, because it makes them a more conscientious citizen (and voter). All of these things are public goods. Measuring peopleís contributions to society by their economic output seems fundamentally against the shared values that supposedly bring us to this community.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #74 on: December 31, 2021, 02:18:32 PM »
.
If Society (capital S) pays for free college or wipes away student debt we should be able to say which degrees we will support.  College that is a pursuit of knowledge but not skill is not a direct benefit to the population and shouldn't be subsidized. 

Hard disagree on this. Having a more educated populace is good for the entire society, full stop. These benefits are wide-ranging and impossible to quantify.

1) In many ways, college is the new high school. About 40% of Americans have undergraduate degrees, equivalent to the percentage of Americans with high school diplomas back in 1940. Free public high schools were pervasive long before that point. To say that high school and age 18 are forever and always the end of public-provided education is arbitrary and silly. And obviously that system is leaving us with an obscene proportion of the citizenry thatís practically illiterate and have no critical thinking abilities.

2) It makes an abundance of sense that as more un-skilled labor becomes automated, thereís more slack in the system for the workforce to shrink, and people will need more education to add value. By the way, that  shrinking workforce also buys workers more bargaining power to be treated with dignity even in unskilled work, which is re-balance that is sorely needed these days. Even those for whom college is ďnot the right fitĒ still deserve to live with dignity. Stuffing the un-skilled sector of the workforce with more kids who canít afford to continue their education just perpetuates the ability of the ruling class to exploit desperation to pay slave-wages.

3) I think itís a great thing for public funds to train software developers and engineers. Itís a great thing for public funds to train plumbers and welders. Itís a great thing for public funds to train therapists and journalists. Itís a great thing for public funds to train artists and writers. Itís a great thing for public funds to just educate someone in philosophy or psychology, even if they become a barista or a bartender, because it makes them a more conscientious citizen (and voter). All of these things are public goods. Measuring peopleís contributions to society by their economic output seems fundamentally against the shared values that supposedly bring us to this community.

You have made lots of assertions in your list that I didn't say so I presume you are simply stating your opinions rather than arguing mine.     

Specific to my thoughts, "direct benefit" is a key phrase I used.  More-educated doesn't seem like a goal that benefits society other than sounding noble within the hifalutin cocktail set.  I suggest "more skilled" as a better goal for the general population especially as robots take over mundane tasks.  Some of those skills are soft, some are STEM, but if society sees direct benefit from it then consideration could be made to pay for them.  Having society pay for post-high school personal development is a hard sale to the masses.  It is like someone paying for my vacations to Hawaii because it is really good for my soul and makes me a kinder, more generous person (no really, it does).  How does that go?  It is like peeing on yourself in a dark suit-- you feel warm, but no one else can see it.     

I suggest K-12 is where people should learn to be conscientious members of society and learn their civics so they understand how their government works and the importance of voting.  Since more than half of the current population never goes to college (your stat) doesn't it seem even more imperative that kids get this on the taxpayer nickel when growing up?

As a GenXer I was part of the first wave of kids whose basic 3 Rs were set aside in favor of touchy-feely stuff that left many of us adrift.  Thinking college is the new high school seems to prove the point that there was a crap-ton of basic life skills that was missed in those 12 years.  We have lamented on these boards about kids never having a clue about interest, credit cards, savings and retirement ideas.  That concept included in the curriculum would make a huge difference and probably make lots of kids rethink taking out the massive student loans in the first place.       

Dicey

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2021, 03:03:22 PM »
We spend so much time discussing how to say FU to our employers, but far too little on how you deploy your very own green soldiers post-FIRE. It's your money, you get to do whatever [the fuck] you want with it. I do love how much thought you put into the decision and the conclusions you've drawn.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2021, 03:22:42 PM »
We spend so much time discussing how to say FU to our employers, but far too little on how you deploy your very own green soldiers post-FIRE. It's your money, you get to do whatever [the fuck] you want with it. I do love how much thought you put into the decision and the conclusions you've drawn.

I agree with this especially in thinking about estate planning.  Figuring out how to do good while alive is not just for Bezos and Gates.  Now that the charity-begins-at-home decks are cleared just imagine what I could do for someone else who didn't have the advantages of my kids.  That will be fun to figure out.     

clarkfan1979

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2021, 03:27:55 PM »
I have a Ph.D. in Applied Social Psychology and teach full-time at a community college. I am going to push back a little on the idea that a BA in Psychology is worthless. Its true that you cannot be a practicing psychologist with a BA. However, many of my psychology students have done great things with a BA in psychology.

Listen to the bigger pockets podcasts with David Green from 2018 to 2020. He was a psychology major and talked about how he used psychology theory to build his real estate empire. Since COVID-19 he talks about Jiu Jitsu, not psychology.

I would absolutely not pay-off 100% of her loans. I think a matching program would make much more sense. For every dollar that she pays off the loan, you will match dollar for dollar.

It seems like you have your finances figured out, so good for you. However, is it possible that you could have a run of bad luck with health expenses or something and need your daughters help when you are older? It could be a great opportunity for her to reciprocate.

My step sister married a guy who was kind of reckless with real estate in 2008. They filed for bankrupcy in 2010. My dad helped them out and let them stay at his vacation/retirement house for free for about 18 months. My dad has been retired for 10 years now and he is running out of money. He has a pension and social security, but that is a little short of the life he wants to live. My step-sister and brother in law are now back doing very well with real estate. They gave my dad 50K to help him buy a 2nd home for 100K in cash. They do want the 50K back if he sells or he dies. Both parties helped each other out when in need. I think it worked out on both ends.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #78 on: December 31, 2021, 04:38:21 PM »

It seems like you have your finances figured out, so good for you. However, is it possible that you could have a run of bad luck with health expenses or something and need your daughters help when you are older? It could be a great opportunity for her to reciprocate.


I am sure both of my daughters would step up to help with whatever comfort care or living assistance arrangements I might need but I can't foresee running out of money.  If I had to spend $1MM on medical I would probably be so sick from it that my life expectancy would not be the 97 years old my FIRE calculators currently use.  Also, if I spent that $1MM there is a pile more behind it to cover normal expenses for whatever time I have left.  This is such a good place to be which is part of what made it OK to open the purse strings to pay off the debt in the first place.  I realized this gift makes no dent in my life but has really big implications in hers, so why not do good while I am still alive. 

I will never forget watching the emotions she went through when she realized the chain was getting cut from her ankles.  That was a really good day.  She will repay that by living a really good life.

[side note-  who gets to do this!!?? I mean really, who gets to relieve someone's burden with a few clicks of a mouse?!  FIRE PEOPLE DO, that's fucking WHO!!  Back to our regularly scheduled program.]       

She said that when I die in 40 years she won't forget this (and the 709 form will remind her) and will make sure it is square with her younger sister as my estate is divided.  I don't care how they handle it because there will be ridiculous amounts and more than enough.  Plus I will be dead.  They get along and the younger one would feel very awkward about being handed such a massive inheritance anyway and will start to give it away immediately.  She is not going to quibble over this long-ago gift.           

Captain FIRE

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2021, 07:25:17 PM »
I'm curious how you will feel if Biden goes ahead and cancels $50K in student loans?

FWIW, due to an inability for the Democrats to compromise, I do not see $50k in student loan relief happening.  Even the $10k that Bidden talked about (he did not put forth $50k) is pretty slim chances at this point imo. 

They need all 50 Democrats in agreement, which means it needs to be something the more conservative Democrats will agree to.  But the progressive Democrats seem to believe in cutting off their nose to spite their face and would prefer nothing rather something less than their desired bills.  This is mind boggling to me and results in 0% of their agenda being fulfilled rather than say, 75%.

Fishindude

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2022, 09:51:23 AM »
My take.

I would not pay.  She made this choice.  She had plenty of time to research the salary of someone with the degree she attained.  In deciding on the private school and the grad degree, she took on the debt herself.  It's now in her hands to pay off the debt.

It does sound as if you tried to instill some practicality in her major choice and she out-stuburned you.  Well, she gets to pay for winning that one now.

I share this opinion, it was an adult decision that comes with adult consequences.
Nothing wrong with being generous with your kids, but I'd find other areas to be generous.



Dicey

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2022, 02:21:15 PM »
My take.

I would not pay.  She made this choice.  She had plenty of time to research the salary of someone with the degree she attained.  In deciding on the private school and the grad degree, she took on the debt herself.  It's now in her hands to pay off the debt.

It does sound as if you tried to instill some practicality in her major choice and she out-stuburned you.  Well, she gets to pay for winning that one now.

I share this opinion, it was an adult decision that comes with adult consequences.
Nothing wrong with being generous with your kids, but I'd find other areas to be generous.
Since OP has already made her decision, it's a moot point, right? The cool thing about FIRE is there a million ways to do it successfully. Maybe more.

meandmyfamily

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2022, 07:20:28 PM »
Sounds like an awesome decision for this situation.  I have really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this.

Car Jack

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2022, 06:29:51 PM »
I wouldn't pay off her loans.  She made the choices.  What might be ok would be at Christmas and birthdays to send a check for $1000 and say that you hope it helps reduce her loans.  This is something the other daughter could get as well without the use suggestion.  DW and I have done this with our kids although since student loans are frozen and DS only has about $25k in debt, we've suggested he pay towards his car loan and he's done that.

If you were to pay off the loan, I might be concerned that she'd think "Now I'm free to get another degree.".

Captain FIRE

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Re: Paying off daughter's student loans
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2022, 08:29:48 PM »
@Car Jack if you read the update, she has already done it.