Only one spouse retiring without becoming a SAHP?

[startingout]

My husband does not want to retire early. I told him from back when we first started dating that I wanted to retire very early on a frugal budget. Now, here we are, with a baby and 2 cats. We're hoping for 1-2 more kids. I still want to retire early, but being a stay-at-home parent is a lot of work to me, and I don't think I'm cut out for it. Is there a way for one parent to retire early without becoming the default stay-at-home parent? I don't think we could afford to pay for childcare on just his income, and even if we could, that would be very unfair to him. We do have a lot of family nearby, but we can't use them for free childcare while I'm sitting at home enjoying hobbies.

As of now, I've accepted that I'll just be working full-time until the kids are 18.

[ixtap]

Could you meet halfway? Work until your savings cover childcare on top of what you have already identified as your need?

Also, kids don't need childcare until 18. Or are you concerned about becoming the default domestic, rather than just childcare?

Do you have room for an au pair?

Do you need the whole day to yourself, or just a few extra hours a week? Could you share childcare with someone else?

Anything is possible with the right negotiation, but y'all are going to have to think outside the box.

[startingout]

Yes, I'm worried about being responsible for the lion's share of the domestic labor too. My husband and I are both slobs, and we hate cleaning. We do have room for an au pair, but my husband is an introvert and doesn't want someone else living with us. He can also be quite stubborn, so I'm also concerned that I'd lose bargaining power if I retire. Right now, our incomes and work hours are fairly equal, which makes splitting chores, free time, and spending money a lot simpler.

[EverythingisNew]

Mothers Day Out and Preschool! I work part-time from home and was a SAHM for years before. Most parents send their kids to a preschool or Mother’s Day out so they get a break in the day and the kids can paint, socialize and play in a new environment. These programs are great!! They are much cheaper than daycare. I pay $400/month for 4 days 9-2pm. Most accept ages 1 year and up. You can also find free preschools at elementary schools for lower income families. You can also pay to join these public school preschools if you aren’t low income for a very reasonable tuition.

Being a SAHM is great! Don’t get turned off by the title. It is whatever you want it to be, like FIRE. I work part time, other friends don’t work, others work odd shifts like realtors, nurses or flight attendants. The parents who don’t work the 9-5 and have free time are a nice group! It’s people who value time and experiences! Like this group.

[startingout]

Being a SAHM is great! Don’t get turned off by the title. It is whatever you want it to be, like FIRE. I work part time, other friends don’t work, others work odd shifts like realtors, nurses or flight attendants. The parents who don’t work the 9-5 and have free time are a nice group! It’s people who value time and experiences! Like this group.

Thanks for sharing your experience! It's great to hear that being a SAHM works for a wide variety of people. I'm not sure if I'm organized enough to be a SAHM because I need a lot of structure or else I'm extremely unproductive. I feel like I'd procrastinate on everything as much as possible, and then my husband would try to step in to micromanage me, which would just lead to conflict between the two of us. I was furloughed for 2 weeks, and during that time, we argued constantly, with him often asking what I did all day. Granted, that was a different situation because we still had childcare, but we were both unhappy with each other's behaviors when I was home and he was working.

[Goldielocks]

Once kids are in school, it is a lot less work, and you will likely be glad to be able to be with them when they are sick.  For house-care, a weekly service can usually be born on a high single salary without much of a battle.  But yes, you will still do 2-3 hours a day of domestic work with the kids, picking up, meals, etc.

So, once they are 7-8yrs +, what you need to do is start up a lot of volunteer / charity activity.  It's valid work of a different kind;  work that takes you away from domestic responsibilities for a lot of your time.  Because you are correct, no one likes working hard for long hours, and coming home to a messy house and a spouse that has only read novels all day.  So you need to fill your time up with some official, valid activity that your spouse regards well.

Before kids are 7-8 yrs old, please plan to keep working if you are highly domestic chore / baby chore avoidant.  There is no getting around it until your youngest starts grade 1, IMO.

Exception
The alternative is if your husband makes a LOT of money, and you can easily afford a FT nanny and a weekly housekeeper (your work is now to manage them, and to keep your spouse at the top of their employment status game, make it easier for them to reach for the top of their career).   People / families do that all the time, BUT your spouse needs to be fully on board with the plan for them to not retire early, too, and you need the overall $$ to make it happen.

I guess -- talk to your spouse and see what they think.

[bogart]

No way would I RE with preschool-aged kids if I could avoid it.  My only is now a teenager, and DH RE'd when he (the teen) was 3, but has not enthusiastically embraced the SAHP role (though he has accepted it ... at least as the primarily responsible one).  We definitely continued to make use of paid childcare (and camps) after DH retired and were fortunate to be able to afford that and have access to good quality ones (I realize this varies a lot by region, etc.).

I much prefer the predictability of the workplace, coupled with enough time (in my experience, and I'm fortunate to have flexible family-friendly work) for my family, to being with them FT (indeed, in pandemic times as I'm WFT @ home and DS is also home and "in school" virtually, I've been reminded of this, though it's much easier now that DS is older.  I'm also grateful (given current economic and other uncertainties) to have a financial cushion.  And I definitely value time with DS more now that he is a teen than when he was younger, so would not have preferred to have more time then and less now.

FWIW.

[Cassie]

It sounds like it won’t work for you to retire at least until the kids go to school full time. Your marriage is important and even more so with kids.   If you were wealthy and could afford a lot of help there probably wouldn’t be a problem. But working all day and coming home to no dinner and a messy house is a recipe for disaster. It’s a good thing you are thinking about this in advance.

[Kyle Schuant]

My husband and I are both slobs, and we hate cleaning.

This is the most important part.

Apparently, some churches offer people who want to marry a sheet of questions, saying, "Is job X is the job of the woman, the man, or both?" The idea is not to tell them "a woman's place" or any shit like that, but to discover if the couple agree on the bulk of things. If you think job X is yours to do, or theirs, and they agree, all good. If you think you should do it and they think they should do it, or if you each think the other should do it, then there's conflict.

In the end, around the house there is going to be shit to do. Someone has to step up and do it. Decide between you.

Note too you don't necessarily have to go from full-time to nothing. You could do part-time to provide extra income for other things, like the household stuff neither of you are willing to do.

[Laura33]

Honestly, this is exactly why I kept working.  I believe that both partners need to share the load equally.  If I elected to give up my paid job, then it would be only fair to pick up more of the child/home load.  But I don't *like* those things.  And sitting around with no structure to my day breeds sloth and lethargy.  So the solution would then be to find some sort of volunteer gig to spend chunks of time on and force me to be a responsible adult.  But then I'm back to working all day, except that I'm no longer getting paid for it.  So why not just stay employed and go part-time as needed/appropriate to address work-life balance problems?  As long as I like my job, it seemed to be the most logical course.  If that changes, I'll reevaluate.

[ROF Expat]

It is entirely possible for one spouse to retire while the other works without the "SAH" parent taking over all the housework.  I'm living that life.  In my experience, doing it without creating a lot of friction requires acting as true partners and having shared goals and good communication at the very least.  I think it also important that we are already FI together at a level that supports the lifestyle we both want, so my RE doesn't create any sense that my spouse is working to support me.  I love spending at home with my kid, but I do pretty frequent solo travel.  I don't mow lawns or clean toilets, but we can afford to pay people to do those things.  If we couldn't afford it, I would do the work myself because it wouldn't be fair to expect my spouse to work a full schedule and then come home and do those things as well.  If we were both retired, we'd divide the chores fairly.  Having a very fat FIRE makes things easier, but I think we'd be fine with a lot less because we both work hard at keeping things fair.  If things didn't feel fair to both of us, I think it would be a recipe for resentment.   

I would encourage you to step back from the current RE question and start a serious conversation with your spouse about your goals (shared or not) and then work on finding a way to work together to achieve both your goals.  If you have achieved a level of FI that will allow you to RE, you ought to be able to do that.  On the other hand, children are a shared responsibility.  At the moment, you are both working to pay for daycare.  It seems to me that if you don't want to take over the daycare duties yourself, but can't afford to pay for daycare, you as a family haven't achieved FI.  (I have no opinion on the housekeeping issue.  If you are both slobs, your RE should not obligate you to keep the house at a higher level than it was before). 

If you and your spouse communicate openly, I think you can find a way forward, but it seems significant to me that you haven't really talked about what he wants.  If you can both agree on your desire to RE on a frugal budget, I think you might find a compromise that involves you working long enough that you achieve a level of FI that includes paying for daycare or long enough that kids are in school and don't need daycare.  At that point, you could retire (and so could your husband if he wishes).  If your husband wants to work longer because he doesn't share your vision of a frugal life, you find out what he wants and think about how you can achieve that together. 

Whatever you do, I hope things work out positively for you. 

[DadJokes]

You could wait until the youngest kid starts school. You aren't much of a SAHP if the kids are at school (except in the summer).

[Papa bear]

To retire on a frugal budget means there is a lot of work to do yourself.  Like housework, maintenance, watching the kids, etc. 

Either work longer and get to bedpan FIRE, or resolve to the fact that even once retired from a job, there is still work to do. 


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[ROF Expat]

To retire on a frugal budget means there is a lot of work to do yourself.  Like housework, maintenance, watching the kids, etc. 

Either work longer and get to bedpan FIRE, or resolve to the fact that even once retired from a job, there is still work to do. 


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Ha! 

I had to look up "bedpan" fire.  I used to  think of my FIRE as morbidly obese, but I may have to switch to bedpan. 

I think there probably is some contradiction in a "frugal" retirement that includes paid daycare, but it would be very hypocritical of me to criticize anybody else's lifestyle choices. 

[shelivesthedream]

There are a couple of things that you really need to tease out before you can figure out if it will work for you and your family to RE alone.

1. Do you have joint or separate finances with your husband at the moment?
Whatever you have, expect to continue it in RE. This may raise the question of whether or not you can really FIRE alone, or whether you will in fact be a SAHW (stay-at-home-wife - i.e. keeping the parenting part out but acknowledging that you are being financially supported by your husband). If you have joint finances but are not in a position to theoretically both RE together (whether or not your husband wants to) then you are not REing, you are becoming a SAHW and I think you ought to take on the bulk of the household load in order to acknowledge this. If you have separate finances, then you need to decide together whether things like paying for childcare or a cleaner are a joint expense because the kids and house belong to both of you, or an expense just for you to take on because otherwise you would be doing them.

2. Do you enjoy spending a lot of time with (your) small children?
People like different phases of their children differently. I could take or leave a baby, but I am loving having a toddler. He's like my little tagalong buddy for everything I want to do. Assuming your children go to school at a normal age, do you actually like spending alllllll day with your babies, toddlers, preschoolers? You say you don't want to be a SAHP, but it seems like it's the housework stuff that you're concerned about most, not the parenting. However, unless you pay for childcare (see #1 about whether or not you can afford it) then you will be spending all of your waking hours (except naptimes, I <3 naptimes) with small children. They will learn to play independently, but not for A While and if you want to have more, then think about how many years that is until they are all in school. However, don't look at the bill for full time childcare and think you can't afford any. Two days a week, or just mornings, or just a mother's helper... there are a myriad of options that will fit whatever you want to budget for part-time childcare. This post (part of a series) is specifically about mothers helpers, but I think it's a really helpful way of framing how to organise and pay for part-time flexible childcare: https://amotherfarfromhome.com/pay-mothers-helper/

3. What do chores and parenting look like now in your household?
Are they equal just because you're both working? If not, or especially if you're not sure, you might want to check this out: http://equallysharedparenting.com/ Do you and your husband both agree about what chores need to be done and how often? Do you both agree that small children are a lot of work?

You say you're concerned about losing bargaining power. One way I have heard of for splitting chores is to ensure that you both have the same amount of free time. If you did retire to read novels all day, what would be your reasoning behind being able to have so much more free time than him? Have you saved up your stash separately or together? Have you both contributed equally to household expenses? How much has your husband contributed to your being able to RE?

4. What kind of "structure" do you imagine you need? What would you be procrastinating? What would your husband be micromanaging?
Is this just about cleaning? Because that's actually a very easily-solved problem. It has three steps:
i. Agree on what jobs need to be done and how often. This is about little-picture things like laundry and big-picture things like painting the house. A good way to do this is to write down your lists separately and then come together to compare. This includes what standard things are to be done to. Turns out my version of "the countertops are clean" =/= Mr SLTD's version. THAT came as a surprise!
ii. Agree who is in charge of which job. We have the "Captain X" system in our house. For example, I am Captain Laundry and he is Captain Dishes. It doesn't mean that I physically do 100% of the laundry or he physically does 100% of the dishes, but I am responsible for keeping mentally on top of laundry and doing what it takes (including asking him to put a load on or whatever if necessary) to ensure everyone has clean clothes. I have recently taken to unloading the dishwasher in the morning with ToddlerSLTD because he loves it, but it's still Mr SLTD's job to check it's been done and I have no obligation to either do it or not do it, or even to remember to mention if I've done it or not, because mentally it's his chore. Similarly, I am Captain Meal Plan and he is Captain Go To The Shops You could split it any way you want - by chore, by day of the week, whatever. You just have to both agree.
iii. Agree on how to give feedback to each other. You know who is in charge of completing a chore and you know what "complete" means and you both agree. Now it's time to agree on how you will draw it to the other one's attention if you are not keeping up your end of the bargain. Weekly family meeting?

And optional fourth step: hire a cleaner. Cheaper than divorce!

5. How's your marriage generally?
You said you argued constantly while you were furloughed. Admittedly this is a stressful time generally, but that doesn't sound very pleasant. Much like having a baby won't save your relationship, it sounds like you REing might bring out qualities in your marriage which are there are the moment. Presumably for good or for bad, but I'd be careful about wanting to work on your marriage before REing if it's likely to be contentious. If your spouse were totally on board it would be a different matter, but you'll need to be communicating extra well as you figure out the "new normal" for your RE life.

6. How's your parenting generally?
Obviously you just have a baby, but I'd be interested in how you both view parenting - is it work or fun? It changes in nature as your children grow, but I'd make sure that both of you have experience of doing a full day with the kid(s) 100% alone before you RE. You can check if you're cut out to SAHP, and he can check if it's a vacation to full-time parent.

6. Could you go part time?
If you want structure and extra money to pay for household services/childcare, could you go part time? Best of both worlds!

If I were you, I would plan to work until your children were in school and then RE. School is free childcare, so no worries there. You'd be around to pick them up and help them with homework, and so not need to pay for any holiday or after school care either. School gives structure to your day, week and year. I would use some of the extra stash to hire a cleaner and just commit to keeping on top of dishes and laundry yourself.

(Note: if you feel you are a slob, PLEASE check out Dana White's book "How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind". It's been life-changing for me. She TOTALLY gets that most books about cleaning are written by...clean people who actually have no problems cleaning.)

WRT the structure SAHP thing... I have to say, right now that is NOT a problem for me. Nothing gives structure to your day like a toddler who passionately loves routine. And there is no alarm clock as good as a baby! When my parents looked after ToddlerSLTD when I was giving birth to BabySLTD, I wrote out what we usually do in a day and holy crap there is so much routine stuff that we do every single day. 7am get up, drink milk, have breakfast, do dishwasher, hang laundry, play or go to playground or playgroup (not now!), get home, have banana, have nap, have lunch, play, snack, play, tidy up, dinner, sweep, bath, prayers, story, bed...and that's just the Sparknotes version. I also hate cleaning but have made a couple of things part of his routine so now HE reminds ME to do them! And it's much more fun to do them with my enthusiastic little buddy who wants me to sing songs about dishwashers.

I have a friend locally with a two year old and she does a free or low-cost (like £2 church hall playgroup) activity every day Mon-Fri, plus playdates. I would go nuts doing more than two things a week max. If you fundamentally like spending time with your young children, SAHP is what you make it. Want to do loads of activities? Do! Want to chill at home? Do!

Sparknotes of this post, then:
1. Are you truly FIRE by yourself or do you just want to quit your job?
2. How can you stop arguing about chores, whether you RE or not?
3. Do you want to spend all day with your small children or not? If not, can you afford childcare, and how will school change your plans?

[mm1970]

Honestly, this is exactly why I kept working.  I believe that both partners need to share the load equally.  If I elected to give up my paid job, then it would be only fair to pick up more of the child/home load.  But I don't *like* those things.  And sitting around with no structure to my day breeds sloth and lethargy.  So the solution would then be to find some sort of volunteer gig to spend chunks of time on and force me to be a responsible adult.  But then I'm back to working all day, except that I'm no longer getting paid for it.  So why not just stay employed and go part-time as needed/appropriate to address work-life balance problems?  As long as I like my job, it seemed to be the most logical course.  If that changes, I'll reevaluate.

I agree with this, which is basically what the OP is saying too.

Neither my husband nor I are very good housekeepers.  Never really have been.  It took me a few years to talk him into a cleaning person/ service.  Once every 2 weeks, solves a lot of arguments.

I also need structure (which is why my workout plan is written on paper and is planned months in advance).

My decision, if I were you, would be to continue working until the youngest is in school.  Full day school.

Our kids are 7 and 14, and if you have discipline, you can get past the slob thing.
- One day, 18-19 years ago, I got up from dinner and took the dishes into the kitchen and started washing dishes.  My husband said "what are you doing?"  I said "well, it occurred to me that it's MUCH easier to get this dishes clean now, before shit is caked on.  So, why not do them now instead of tomorrow?" (Don't laugh, it was a bad habit and we were messy.)
- One day, same time frame, I started getting the mail.  He would let mail (junk mail) pile up for months before sorting it.  Not anymore.  Junk mail, people asking for money from our colleges, go straight into recycling.  Much less paper.  Same with kid papers from school.
- I still have not taken over the bills - so yes, we build up a lot of paper because he'll "get to it later".
- Now that the kids are bigger, everyone folds their own laundry.
- We are all home all day right now, so kids have to load the dishwasher and help with dishes after every meal.  Goes faster that way.
- We clean for an hour or two every other weekend (because COVID, no cleaning lady, though we are still paying her).  Before kids we did that...an hour or two every week, on a schedule, was the only way.  The kids are learning to vacuum.
(The point of this is to say that you just need to become "not as much slobs" by simply getting new habits.  Small ones, one at a time.)

Also, I did work part time (30-35 h/week) on 2 separate occasions when kids were young, and it was very helpful.  We still split the work of the household 50/50.

[Cassie]

SLTD, you totally nailed it! I agree 100%.

[2Birds1Stone]

Great points, SLTD. I can't imagine this working unless you somehow didn't put the entire burden of income on your husband while simultaneously expecting to explore hobbies and pay someone else to do the brunt of housework/child-rearing. If you had an inheritance or a disproportionately higher stache independent of your joint finances and burdened those costs, then yea, go play while your husband works.

[elaine amj]

When I was a SAHM raising two little kids and struggling with not being a perfect mom and not liking housekeeping,  I fantasized paying for a cleaning lady. I remember saying I would be happy to work for minimum wage to pay someone minimum wage to clean my house!

Then I started my career and did eventually get a cleaning lady. Turns out I was wrong. My new fantasy was to get FIREd as quickly as possible.

I FIREd at 39 and given our frugal budget, have now accepted that I have to clean the house myself. While it still sucks (and man I desperately need to wipe down my fridge - hopefully tomorrow), it oddly doesn't suck as much as it did back then. Maybe keeping up with some bare basics cleaning   here and there now seems to be a reasonable price for my freedom the rest of the day.

That said, I did enjoy my SAHM days. Yes, babies and toddlers were exhausting and annoying, but I remember quietly marvelling that I did actually fit in quite a bit of time to eat bon bons and read books somehow.

Anyway, in your case - I would just wait until your kids are in school. That will give you time to save extra to pay for childcare/cleaning help. That could eliminate a whole lot of stress.

Also, I have come across several early FIREd parents who have discovered they do NOT enjoy staying home all day with babies and toddlers - I often get the feeling they'd sooner be working. Some are lucky enough to have extra budget room to pay for at least part-time childcare. For me, free daily playgroups saved my sanity. 2-3 hours every morning in an organized playgroup setting gave me adults to talk to and a more structured environment for my little ones.

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[shelivesthedream]

That said, I did enjoy my SAHM days. Yes, babies and toddlers were exhausting and annoying, but I remember quietly marvelling that I did actually fit in quite a bit of time to eat bon bons and read books somehow.

I only do chores when my toddler is awake. He tags along with me and either plays nearby or (more likely) "helps". This means that his naps (approx 1h30 a day) and the evenings are nearly 100% me-time. At naptime, I prep lunch then sit around drinking coffee and eating cake. He also goes to bed early and stays there. The new baby has slightly thrown off my bon bon eating time, but I expect to return to our regularly scheduled programming hopefully by the end of the year.

[ericrugiero]

It seems like you need to figure out how to retire early and have it still be relatively "fair". 

What is your stache like?  This conversation looks very different if your husband is working by choice because he loves his job vs working because he needs to provide for his family and now you aren't wanting to "do your part". 

Are your finances split or combined?  If you could figure out a way to save enough to cover your part of the expenses, save enough money through doing something else or do a side gig to cover your part then maybe it's more acceptable.  It's really all about what your husband is OK with. 

[MissPeach]

I think there were some good points here but I'm curious what OP's plan is for post-FIRE? If OP wants to start a business/hustle, volunteer, or do other things with that time it's unfair to assume they can pick up everything since they're not 'working' for an income.

The OP will have more flexibility and help once the kids are old enough for school and/or if they are OK paying for help (either child or domestic). That sort of stuff is really just budget versus priorities.