Author Topic: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...  (Read 4494 times)

Mom to 5

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No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« on: February 01, 2014, 10:35:01 PM »
How in the world does one calculate for that?! 

I would plan to spend less $ on kids, sure!

But, at the same time, I may actually spend $ for a hobby for myself.  Also, I would expect to be hosting my kids' families for meals and possibly lodging at times.  Kids that aren't local, there would be travel expenses to see them.  I would expect to buy them a birthday and Christmas gifts, too. 

Really, I would think that our expenses would decrease a bit, but not by a large amount.  How are you all figuring this out? 

Nords

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 09:48:51 AM »
How in the world does one calculate for that?! 
I would plan to spend less $ on kids, sure!
But, at the same time, I may actually spend $ for a hobby for myself.  Also, I would expect to be hosting my kids' families for meals and possibly lodging at times.  Kids that aren't local, there would be travel expenses to see them.  I would expect to buy them a birthday and Christmas gifts, too. 
Really, I would think that our expenses would decrease a bit, but not by a large amount.  How are you all figuring this out?
We subtracted the teen expenses from each line item, but ours used a disproportionate share of the total.

In our experience, going from three in our house to two saved over 40% in our grocery budget.  Our utility bills dropped by nearly 50%.  Our gasoline bill dropped by about 30%, but she was running most of our errands so the drop in our gas bill wasn't as great as it could have been.  We stopped paying her an allowance, and we stopped paying her a clothing/toiletries budget. 

You could change your family vehicle insurance to have your college student as an "occasional driver".  If they're outta the house and permanently off the payroll then you could just drop them from the policy. 

On the other side of the ledger we had more travel expenses, both her plane tickets home on break and our annual trip for families weekend.  (That's expensive because college students don't know their final exam schedules until awfully late in the travel game, and their travel tends to be during peak periods.)  We spent a lot more money mailing packages to her at college.  We also budgeted for the cost of the graduation festivities.  Maybe someday we'll subsidize the cost of a wedding. 

When she turned 18 years old we stopped the holiday/birthday gift exchanges and just went to cards/e-mails. 

If they're at college or a similar credentials program then you may be eligible for some sort of education tax credit.  If they're no longer your dependent (which  can get complicated when they're at college) then you have one less tax deduction. 

Workinghard

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 03:19:48 PM »
We pay for our son's flight home. It's way cheaper than two of us flying to see him, car rental, hotel, and meals out. We never kept track of expenses before, so I'm not sure of the impact with an empty nest.

Gray Matter

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 03:44:10 PM »
That is a hard one.  I would create a bare-bones, just-the-two-of-us budget, so I knew what my minimum expenses would be if I didn't pay for anything or gift anything.  Then I would try to estimate how much I would spend in travel (3 trips/year x 2), gifts, and figure out how many days/year there would be extra people in the house and how many and up the grocery budget by that amount.  Or, you can just throw an amount out there and the stick to it (travel less or gift less if you go over in groceries, etc.)

happy

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 05:54:18 PM »
Somewhere buried in here Limeandpepper posted some annual household spending by age/stage for Australian families. I found it really helpful. If you find some American data it might help.

So what happens in Australia kids leave school circa 18, and either work/go to tertiary education..probably leaving tertiary education around 21-23. They may or may not leave home around then depending. "Going away to college (university)" is less of a phenomenon/cost than in US.

From memory the data went something like this:
So average household costs for families with upper school age kids = $1900/week, up to max of 2000-2200 for a mix of dependent post school and independent post-school young adults still living at home.  Yes thats 100k or so a year on average! (guess some of the dependents/independents at home are earning and contributing $ to the household costs). Holy guacamole, I nearly fainted when I saw that.

Once they start to leave the expenses drops dramatically to $1300/week, then $1000/week for a couple. As they get older the costs drop further.

I'm currently hitting the peak (kids 16 and 18, oldest working part-time and studying part-time at uni).. but I'm pleased to say our expenses are a lot lower than average.

I am expecting our household living expenses to gradually decline over the next 5 years as the kids get paying jobs/leave home. Retirement  should coincide with this, hopefully. Based on this date my budget will be 50% of the current expenses plus $10k a year for travel/horses/unforeseen large expenses. ( I think I'll do it for less, but this is what I'm planning).

As Nords said there are some "rite of passage" expenses you may or may not wish to budget for: 18th/21st birthday parties, weddings, graduations (if that is going to involve expensive travel), contribution to first car?, contribution to first house?, assistance with tertiary education costs?




MrsPete

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 06:36:43 PM »
We're not too far from this stage of our life, and it's something we've talked about lately.  This is a bit of a guess, but it's a guess from someone with one foot in the doorway, so it's an educated guess:

- Expect that when your kids become teens, your costs will go up.  Even if you've taught them the word "NO", your expenses will increase.  Used clothing isn't as easy to find.  Braces (and a few other large dental costs) weren't optional for my two.  Driver's ed and insurance are big expenses even if you don't provide them with a personal car.  And college.  Our kids weren't "gimme, gimme type kids, but I'm glad that we had our finances in line BEFORE we hit this stage of their lives. 

- Our oldest is in college now, and we do spend on visiting her.  We're all comfortable with a visit about once a month -- and it kind of alternates between her coming home (which means 50% of the time we go get her because she doesn't have a car, the other half she's able to find a ride home) and sometimes we go stay in her college town.  The expense isn't great, and we love the visits -- but it is money spent on gas, meals out, etc.  Also last summer we split a self-storage rental with some other people rather than bring all her "stuff" home.  The point: During college years, expect more than just tuition costs.

- We've made it clear to our kids exactly what we will pay during college, and we've made it clear that once they're out of school we will not be paying rent, insurance, etc.  Once they have a degree, we expect them to be self-supporting.  I've ALWAYS found that it's better to be crystal-clear with your kids on what you will and won't do.  For example, if you've paid their car insurance during college, tell them exactly when the coverage will end and how much they should expect to begin paying and when.  Don't let them just "assume" you'll continue it for a while and then be surprised that it's due NOW.  I expect to help them plan their expenses, and I will definitely encourage them to save from their very first professional paychecks, but I won't be supplementing their lifestyles. 

- Once they're both out of college, and it's JUST US, I expect our expenses will go down fairly significantly.  We're working on building a retirement house, which will be smaller than the one in which we live now.  And it'll be more energy efficient.  Along those lines, we'll downsize to one car (we used to have just one car when we were first married, and adding a second car was a HUGE blow to the budget). 

- Many, if not most, of my friends who are already empty nesters say that they NEVER cook anymore.  They claim it isn't cost-effective.  For example, I have one friend whose husband travels all week.  When he's home, they eat out one evening, and they grill one evening.  She grills an extra steak and an extra piece of chicken, then she slices them thinly over store-bought salads for her evening meals alone.  Cooking is one of our favorite hobbies, so I don't see us doing this -- but sooooo many people do.

- We expect to travel more.  We're interested in buying a teardrop trailer, which'll mean we can afford extended trips on a budget.  We've talked about paying for a family vacation every 3-4 years for everyone -- us, the kids, hopefully grandkids.  We'd do something moderately-priced like renting a house at the beach.  We'd pay for the house, and we'd expect the kids to kick in for food and activities. 

- We're a family that enjoys frequent get-togethers, and I think that once we're in our new house we'll be the hosts more frequently.  We tend to do pot-lucks, but I don't think this'll be a huge expense. 

- This won't be a problem for years, but I expect eventually we'll end up paying people to do things that will become more difficult as we age:  Wash windows, mow the yard, clean the house. 


I'm interested in what other people anticipate, and I'm even more interested in what those who are already in this stage of life have experienced.

Nords

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Re: No clue what "Empty Nest" expenses will be...
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 09:58:18 PM »
So, I guess I am thinking post college when they are going to be expected to be financially independent. However, during this time I expect to have expenses related to them (travel or hosting them and gifting them). Is there any way to figure this?
I feel like it is an important thing to consider when planning FI budget. Since I have no idea how to plan for that phase, it is hard to know what our annual expenses would be.
We tell our daughter that she's welcome to fly home to Hawaii whenever from wherever.  We just guess that it'll cost $5000/year (her coming to us or us going to her) and we'll see how it works out.

As far as getting value out of our spending... it's one way to ensure that we'll see the grandkids!

- Many, if not most, of my friends who are already empty nesters say that they NEVER cook anymore.  They claim it isn't cost-effective.  For example, I have one friend whose husband travels all week.  When he's home, they eat out one evening, and they grill one evening.  She grills an extra steak and an extra piece of chicken, then she slices them thinly over store-bought salads for her evening meals alone.  Cooking is one of our favorite hobbies, so I don't see us doing this -- but sooooo many people do.
- This won't be a problem for years, but I expect eventually we'll end up paying people to do things that will become more difficult as we age:  Wash windows, mow the yard, clean the house. 
I'm interested in what other people anticipate, and I'm even more interested in what those who are already in this stage of life have experienced.
One of the fun parts of empty-nesting is no longer having to set a good example for the kids, let alone be a grownup.  You do things out of preference or choice, not out of some family obligation.  Go to bed or get up whenever you want?  Done.  Clothing-optional home?  No problem.  Cooking?  Only if you want to.  Eat meals whenever & wherever?  You bet.

I think cooking from raw ingredients will always be cheaper than frozen dinners.  However frozen dinners have come a long way in nutrition, and the portion control is built in.  We have certain "food chores" that we almost never do-- for example making salads.  When the choices are "no salad at all" or "bagged salad", it's easier to buy the bagged salad.  We still fix breakfasts and I still broil fish filets for lunch, but the frozen dinners are a nice break from KP.

Neither one of us cares for housecleaning.  We're very good about stowage and not making a mess in the first place (all those years of sea duty) but we don't care to dust horizontal surfaces or vacuum or tackle other cleaning scutwork.  Oddly enough, we feel as if we have to "earn" the privilege of a housecleaner.  When she's working inside, we're outside doing yardwork or home improvement projects.  Again these are things that we tend to avoid (or procrastinate) as long as possible, so having the housecleaner forces us to focus on our project when she's doing her work.  When she leaves, we have a clean house and a shorter honey-do list.