Night nannies are a thing?!?

[little_brown_dog]

Debate time: Night nannies

http://mom.me/baby/31888-night-nannies-confess-all/

Apparently you can outsource night time care for infants to get a solid night's sleep. At first I was envious, but then I started to think, philosophically, where do you draw the line between parenting with a lot of help, and not really parenting much at all? Obviously night nannies could be extremely valuable for families with few supports, kids with special needs, or families with multiple infants. But it also seems like, based on the article, some parents are essentially outsourcing almost all of the not fun or tiring parts of caring for young infants.

So what say you mustachians - are night nannies a god-send from above for sleep deprived parents, or are they just another step on the slippery slope leading to the complete outsourcing of parenting in today's modern world?

**Please note: this is not a debate about working parents or SAH parents, it is a debate about purposefully outsourcing the less enjoyable aspects of child care when parents are available (night time feedings, dealing with crying, etc) that have typically defined the early parenting experience.

[sjc0816]

My cousin is head of surgery at our city's largest hospital. She is 44 and just had triplets. She went back to work after 6 weeks and has round-the-clock nannies. I don't think there is any other way for her to manage. I wouldn't choose to have night nannies....but I'm not a surgeon and I don't have triplets!

[Captain FIRE]

I think it's mostly used by those with multiples (or the really rich).  I have friends who used night nannies 3-4 nights each week who specialized in twins.  They say it saved them both from the sleep aspect and the help with sleep training the twins etc.  We barely saw them for that year because they were just struggling to live.  She also had post-partum depression.

Seems like it's an easy thing to judge unless you're in that situation.   We all spend on what matters most to us.  People outsource house cleaning here on a not-too-infrequent basis after all.  If getting a good nights sleep is most important to you so you can function the next day at your job, and you can afford it?  So be it.  I just don't think you are less of a parent for outsourcing the "less enjoyable aspects": 1) the kids are mostly sleeping after all, so it's not even missing out on a ton of bonding time, 2) this is usually only temporary help, and 3) this just seems like it's going down the judgment rails (just like whether outsourcing daycare is ok or not).

[merula]

My experiences with singleton, non-special-needs infants with a stay-at-home husband and all kinds of nearby family support were hellish. Seriously. My kids are 2 and 4 and after all the "you'll miss these days" BS advice I got, I promised myself I would never forget how bad the bad parts were. The good parts were amazing, of course, but I HATED how anyone who didn't have a baby had blinders about the bad parts leading to guilt-tripping advice like "sleep when the baby sleeps" and the aforementioned "enjoy every minute, they'll never be this small again". But I have caught myself forgetting, and it's a conscious effort to tell myself that no, surviving on <5 hours of sleep per night for months on end, with nothing longer than 3 hour spurts, is a terrible way to live.

I will straight up acknowledge that if I hadn't had that relatively easy situation, I would totally have used night nannies. No judgment whatsoever.

[MayDay]

In retrospect we should have hired someone when DS was a baby. My mental health was suffering.

[MrsDinero]

I don't think it is necessarily "a thing" outside the very wealthy but I have known some people who did hire night time nannies for many reasons: their baby just would not sleep during the night, they did not have family support, spouse traveled and was away a lot, etc.

There was recently a thread on here about someone asking if they should move from nanny to daycare but the big problem was the babies didn't sleep. If I remember they had a live-in nanny specifically to help with nights.  sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

[onlykelsey]

I think it's very common with twins/triplets and special needs kids.  My mom was a special ed teacher and sometimes moonlit for families with special needs toddlers and young kids.

Honestly, as a pregnant woman who's an orphan with no other family or family in law nearby, I would entertain the thought if necessary.  I'm particularly worried because in order for us to stay financially afloat, I need to keep my sometimes 80-hour a week six-figure job.

[mm1970]

I once knew a nurse who worked as a "night nurse".

Seriously, the first year and a half was brutal, with both kids.  The lack of sleep.  I was a complete zombie.  And I don't have the ability to sleep during the day.  If up at night with a kid, I'm up for HOURS.  A night nanny would have been GLORIOUS.

I think it's probably not so far out of the norm in families that have multiple generations under one roof, as opposed to the current model of the nuclear family.

[milliemchi]

**Please note: this is not a debate about working parents or SAH parents, it is a debate about purposefully outsourcing the less enjoyable aspects of child care when parents are available (night time feedings, dealing with crying, etc) that have typically defined the early parenting experience.

As a mother of two, with own health issues after one of the kids, I'd like to offer the opinion that if a parent is asleep, and needs the sleep for own health/sanity/employment, then they're not really 'available'.

It's different if you can nap later in the day, or don't need your brain during the day, but if you're employed, it changes the equation. Everybody has different limits. I had a night nanny for one night total, but many more nights were needed, in hindsight.

[nottoolatetostart]

No judging over here! Night nurse has gotta be cheaper than divorce in some cases.

[calimom]

One of the moms in my widows' support group had a baby just before her husband died a week later. She also had a 3 year old at the time, and yeah, hired a night nanny as well as had daytime help. I believe the nighttimes nanny was a retired baby nurse and helped my friend at a time when she could use as much sleep as she could get.

I would really never judge anyone's decision for a doula, night nanny, return to work or choosing to stay home. Everyone just needs to do what's best for them in their own situation. Though I might be convinced to judge someone who buys a toddler an expensive battery operated mini Escalade using a maxed out credit card or something along those lines.

[MrsDinero]

On a side note, does anyone know what a night nanny might charge?  This could a legitimate side gig for a kid-loving-night-owl (not me).

[milliemchi]

Ten years ago, $250/night. When I negotiated down to $150, she didn't show up for the second night, without bothering to let me know in advance. I was by myself, too, for 10 days, working full time.

[onlykelsey]

On a side note, does anyone know what a night nanny might charge?  This could a legitimate side gig for a kid-loving-night-owl (not me).

I think if you have certifications and experience, it's ~$300 in Manhattan for an infant, 12 hours.

[Beriberi]

I think this would be a great side-hustle (as well as birth control, for me at least). I have no happy memories of those early nights - but it would be pleasant to do 8 hours at a time (instead of 24 hours per day).    Some night care people advertise that they can help with putting the baby on a schedule and gentle sleep training - so this is not just outsourcing parenting, but (in theory) providing a specialized service.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

Funny (pathetic?) sleep training story -

We always thought my daughter was an unusually great sleeper. From 6-8 weeks on she was going 6+ hours most of the time! It was awesome! I bragged to my parents that our daughter was awesome and almost never cried at night anymore. Around 8 weeks, my mom came over to help while my husband was away on a trip. Turns out, baby was occasionally fussing in the middle of the night, but we were so sleep deprived/de-sensitized to it at that point that we were sleeping right through it, even with the baby in the crib right next to the bed! Apparently cry it out and sleep training aren't always a parenting choice...sometimes your body makes it happen regardless of your personal parenting philosophies. :)

This is a far less expensive solution than a night nanny.  Obviously you shouldn't let a brand new little one cry it out, but if you are able to leave them alone they will learn to self-soothe a lot earlier than you would otherwise think.  There is nothing wrong with putting them in their own room to sleep and getting some sleep yourself.  As long as you've fed them, changed them, and have them in a good sleeper, they will be just fine.  But if you train them to expect to be soothed and/or fed whenever they coo in the night, they will learn to expect it. 

Of course kiddos with special needs and multiples are a different story.  Same if you have little or no support from family or friends. 

[Captain FIRE]

On a side note, does anyone know what a night nanny might charge?  This could a legitimate side gig for a kid-loving-night-owl (not me).

$35/hr (10 hr usual shift) for a service specializing in multiples.  Of course a portion goes back to the service in that case.

[gluskap]

I don't think it's fair to say that getting a night nurse is outsourcing your childcare.  Some families have help...does that mean they're outsourcing?  Some babies are better sleepers than others too.  I think if you can afford it and you are still being active in your kids lives then go for it.

[Ceridwen]

I had an American colleague (living temporarily in Canada) who was pregnant and absolutely shocked that night nannies weren't a thing here.  I believe she found one eventually, but she was just flabbergasted when the fellow office moms couldn't help her out with referrals.

Once I learned about it, I do think it makes sense for American moms who return to work quickly after giving birth.  It must be unpopular in Canada due to our long maternity leaves.

[GuitarStv]

Holy shit.  I've never heard of them, but absolutely would have used one during the year and a half that our son didn't sleep through the night.  Extended periods of no sleep like that were not good for our health, relationship, or general sanity.

[rockstache]

I know two people who did this for a job. It was usually multiples and/or wealthy parents. They would stay the night, feed the babies on schedule, and then come home and sleep for 5-6 hours. One lady had a seamstress business that she tailored around her nighttime hours. She's retired now, go figure!

[Cassie]

In the past people lived near relatives so when multiples arrived a family member was able to help. Now with families being spread out and maternity leaves so short I can definitely see this. Even if you only have 1 baby but it is colicky etc and you have to work but can't sleep this is a bad situation. Some people will use it to get over rough patches and like what has always been done some very wealthy people will let others raise their kids. That is nothing new either.  I have to admit that i have never heard of this.

[wordnerd]

I didn't/wouldn't do it, but I don't it qualifies as eschewing parenting entirely, as OP paints it. Generally, they're used for a few nights a week for a few weeks for people with multiples. If it gives parents a little relief at a difficult time, I think it's better use of money than a lot of baby-related purchases.

[Dicey]

Just dropping this tale in, 'cause it's related... DSS nannied for a VERY wealthy family. They had two babies, about six months apart, by two different surrogates. Then they hired a team of SIX nannies to provide 24/7 baby care. The nanny payroll was about half a million bucks a year.
DSS is a naturally frugal girl, so not only was the pay great, but it was a wonderfully eye-opening experience for her.

[BananaPants]

A colleague's SIL hired a night nurse - both parents are physicians and mom went back to work after only 5-6 weeks.  They switched to a live-in nanny after mom returned to work. 

What I found spectacular was that they also hired a wet nurse!  Not just obtaining donor milk, but they hired an actual wet nurse.  I didn't even think that was a thing anymore! 

[mamagoose]

I know two mothers with night nannies. One is a single mom with twins, the other is an older mom with triplets. One mom and one dad can only do so much with multiple babies, especially if they have to go to work in the morning. If you can afford it, go for it and save your sanity. I promise nobody hands out merit badges to who got the least amount of sleep by insourcing 100% of their childcare in the early years.

[Beriberi]

I promise nobody hands out merit badges to who got the least amount of sleep by insourcing 100% of their childcare in the early years.

So true!

[Meggslynn]

We looked into hiring a night nanny when our son was a newborn. I developed a horrific case of post natal insomnia which led to PPD and I needed to take strong sleeping pills to fall asleep which of course makes middle of the night feedings impossible. Unfortunately for us night nannies are very very rare in our area so we were unable to find one.
We managed by me popping a sleeping pill at 7pm. My husband doing feedings from 7pm to 1am. The he would sleep from 1am to 7:30am while I did the other feedings.

[2Birds1Stone]

This is awesome, the only way I would even consider offspring is if I could outsource 90% of the work associated with them.

[protostache]

We had a night nannie (actually our doula) for about six weeks, two nights a week. My wife was recovering from a pretty difficult delivery, we had no family or friend support after the first week, and we were both desperate for sleep. I don't think we would have made it through those first few weeks intact without the doula's help. The point was never to have continuously every night forever, we just needed to be able to get those two nights of solid sleep.

We would absolutely do it again. In fact we would probably arrange it ahead of time instead of scrambling for help.

[charis]

What I found spectacular was that they also hired a wet nurse!  Not just obtaining donor milk, but they hired an actual wet nurse.  I didn't even think that was a thing anymore!

Um, how has no one commented on this yet?  A wet nurse?  How does that work?

[Pigeon]

I have no judgment to give, and judgment is what this always boils down to, and it's always a sideways dig at working women.

In earlier times when multi-generational households were common, I suspect that there were people (women, probably 99% of the time), around to help.

I had one kid who did not sleep for the first five years of her life, no matter what we did.  I was honestly terrified that I was going to fall asleep at the wheel and kill myself and my other child.  I remember looking at her when she'd woken up for the 486 time that night and wondering how it was possible that I was even alive, I was so exhausted.

If people want to hire a night nanny, more power to them if it helps.

[FIRE Artist]

My brother hired a live in nanny (Filipino, work visa sponsored) with his first born and still has a day nanny even though his kids are in school.  He is a heart surgeon who is on call around the clock and his wife is quadriplegic, also a doctor but not on call.  So yeah, I get the night nanny thing, someone needs to be able to get up for the babies, and also be there if the kids are sick etc.

[LouLou]

What I found spectacular was that they also hired a wet nurse!  Not just obtaining donor milk, but they hired an actual wet nurse.  I didn't even think that was a thing anymore!

Um, how has no one commented on this yet?  A wet nurse?  How does that work?

This slipped right past me!  I know wet nurses were common before formula.  I had no idea anyone did this now.  Honestly, I would feel more comfortable with formula that a stranger's breastmilk.

I have no judgment to give, and judgment is what this always boils down to, and it's always a sideways dig at working women.

In earlier times when multi-generational households were common, I suspect that there were people (women, probably 99% of the time), around to help.

So true.  I live in a multigenerational household and it is so, so nice.  When I look exhausted, my mom notices and lets me take a nap.  She gets snuggle time with her grandchild, and I get to take a shower and sleep.  This was key in the first few weeks.  My in-laws take the baby one night a week, so I get a full night to reset myself.  It has made such a huge difference in my ability to parent, and how much I enjoy bonding with my daughter during my maternity leave.

If I had a bad sleeper and no family around, I could see hiring a night nurse.

[marion10]

I had a friend whose daughter had naturally occurring triplets-she took a year maternity leave- but the first year his wife handled nights (sometimes with the mother) Mon- Thursday and then her dad (my friend) came over and did night duties Friday through Sunday with the father- and he was still working. If they didn't have family- a night nanny would be a necessity.

[Nick_Miller]

Absolutely NO judgment to anyone with small kids who needs help, especially at night!

We have two girls, spaced a few years apart, and they're older now, but those first years for each were tough. We both work, we both were super involved with the babies, and we tag teamed it all, and even with both of teaming up, we never got enough sleep. I would feed the baby in the morning and she would frequently throw up all over me, so even mornings sucked.

Many people have mothers and MILs and such helping out, and no one calls that "outsourcing."  Not everyone is able to get that sort of help, so they have to pay for it.

[EricL]

There might be a successful business model here. 7/11 or WalMart can run baby sleep tanks with one nurse per 10 babies. Parents drop the kid off after work, do some shopping, then come back the next day to pick up. They can get a Starbucks or Slurpee on the way out.

[protostache]

There might be a successful business model here. 7/11 or WalMart can run baby sleep tanks with one nurse per 10 babies. Parents drop the kid off after work, do some shopping, then come back the next day to pick up. They can get a Starbucks or Slurpee on the way out.

Night shifts with babies are a thing. They sleep maybe 3 hours at a stretch until they're a few months old, then that starts to get progressively longer. Two people with no external pressure can pull this off in shifts for a time, but it's extremely hard on both of them and on their relationship (this is currently my life). Hiring help when there's no free help to be had is not abdicating responsibility or consumerism or whatever you're implying. I'd argue that getting help is the more responsible, prudent thing. Sleep deprivation is deadly.

[Anatidae V]

There might be a successful business model here. 7/11 or WalMart can run baby sleep tanks with one nurse per 10 babies. Parents drop the kid off after work, do some shopping, then come back the next day to pick up. They can get a Starbucks or Slurpee on the way out.

Night shifts with babies are a thing. They sleep maybe 3 hours at a stretch until they're a few months old, then that starts to get progressively longer. Two people with no external pressure can pull this off in shifts for a time, but it's extremely hard on both of them and on their relationship (this is currently my life). Hiring help when there's no free help to be had is not abdicating responsibility or consumerism or whatever you're implying. I'd argue that getting help is the more responsible, prudent thing. Sleep deprivation is deadly.

A family was in the news here a few years back when the sleep deprived father left the infant in the car all day, thinking he'd dropped it at daycare. The loss of that tiny life was devastating.

[sirdoug007]

I understand the usefulness of parents getting a chance to get some good sleep, but the costs seem prohibitive.

$250/night is probably on the low end.  Having a night nanny for 3 nights/week for 6 months would be about $20,000.  So there goes your 401(k) money.  Combine this with day care and you can add another pile of money.

How does a Mustachian deal with these huge costs?

[StarBright]

I have no judgment to give, and judgment is what this always boils down to, and it's always a sideways dig at working women.

In earlier times when multi-generational households were common, I suspect that there were people (women, probably 99% of the time), around to help.

I had one kid who did not sleep for the first five years of her life, no matter what we did.  I was honestly terrified that I was going to fall asleep at the wheel and kill myself and my other child.  I remember looking at her when she'd woken up for the 486 time that night and wondering how it was possible that I was even alive, I was so exhausted.

If people want to hire a night nanny, more power to them if it helps.

+1 to all of this. Pigeon is wise.

[protostache]

I understand the usefulness of parents getting a chance to get some good sleep, but the costs seem prohibitive.

$250/night is probably on the low end.  Having a night nanny for 3 nights/week for 6 months would be about $20,000.  So there goes your 401(k) money.  Combine this with day care and you can add another pile of money.

How does a Mustachian deal with these huge costs?

If you need the help than it's a cost of doing business. As with all things kids related, it is temporary. A mustachian might negotiate for a bulk discount, limit the number of visits or otherwise control the costs. My wife and I only had ours twice a week for six weeks, for example.

[MrsDinero]

We have a 3 week old and a 12 month old.  The 12 month old sleeps 10-12 hours a night.  The 3 week old will sleep anywhere from 3 hours to 5 hours at a time.  I am not breastfeeding so we decided to "divide and conquer".

My husband and I found with the 12 month old, we do not work well as a team when both of us are sleep deprived, so from the day I got home from the hospital with our littlest one, we started taking turns. 

One night, one of us will sleep in the master bedroom with the 3 month old and take "baby duty" while one sleeps in the guest room to get a good night's sleep.  Whoever sleeps in the guest room also puts the 12 month old to bed and gets her up in the morning.   This is working very well so far, because each day one of us is well rested.

[Beriberi]

If I didn't have a job that paid me well, I would totally consider working as a night-nurse.  It think it is probably a great side hustle.

I think it is helpful to look it this way -  some problems can be solved with money. The amount of money you should throw at this problem depends on how much money you have and how big the problem is for you.  I have three kids and would have found tremendous value in this with the first one- the others, not as much (I had a better system and they were better sleepers).

[EricL]

There might be a successful business model here. 7/11 or WalMart can run baby sleep tanks with one nurse per 10 babies. Parents drop the kid off after work, do some shopping, then come back the next day to pick up. They can get a Starbucks or Slurpee on the way out.

Night shifts with babies are a thing. They sleep maybe 3 hours at a stretch until they're a few months old, then that starts to get progressively longer. Two people with no external pressure can pull this off in shifts for a time, but it's extremely hard on both of them and on their relationship (this is currently my life). Hiring help when there's no free help to be had is not abdicating responsibility or consumerism or whatever you're implying. I'd argue that getting help is the more responsible, prudent thing. Sleep deprivation is deadly.

A family was in the news here a few years back when the sleep deprived father left the infant in the car all day, thinking he'd dropped it at daycare. The loss of that tiny life was devastating.

My post was meant to be humorous, not an indictment of anyone's opinion/parental decisions.  I do resent Anatidae V's little pile which seems to imply I'm OK with dead babies.

[Anatidae V]

There might be a successful business model here. 7/11 or WalMart can run baby sleep tanks with one nurse per 10 babies. Parents drop the kid off after work, do some shopping, then come back the next day to pick up. They can get a Starbucks or Slurpee on the way out.

Night shifts with babies are a thing. They sleep maybe 3 hours at a stretch until they're a few months old, then that starts to get progressively longer. Two people with no external pressure can pull this off in shifts for a time, but it's extremely hard on both of them and on their relationship (this is currently my life). Hiring help when there's no free help to be had is not abdicating responsibility or consumerism or whatever you're implying. I'd argue that getting help is the more responsible, prudent thing. Sleep deprivation is deadly.

A family was in the news here a few years back when the sleep deprived father left the infant in the car all day, thinking he'd dropped it at daycare. The loss of that tiny life was devastating.

My post was meant to be humorous, not an indictment of anyone's opinion/parental decisions.  I do resent Anatidae V's little pile which seems to imply I'm OK with dead babies.

Oh gosh, I'm sorry! I just meant that the line "sleep deprivation is deadly" is, sadly, true!

(I think the idea of being able to drop bub off while you shop and pick up a slurpee/coffee on the way out could actually pretty solid.)

[Kyle Schuant]

I have no judgment to give, and judgment is what this always boils down to, and it's always a sideways dig at working women.

In earlier times when multi-generational households were common, I suspect that there were people (women, probably 99% of the time), around to help.

I think both of these things are correct. "Hey! Mother of kid! If your mum gets the kid up instead of you, that's just family. If a night nanny gets the kid up instead of you, that's evil!"

[justajane]

Sleep deprivation in the first year of my three kids' lives was the some of the worst torture I've ever experienced. None of my kids slept worth a damn. My 2.5 year old still wakes up a few times a night.

So, yeah, if we had had the money we would have definitely hired someone. But $250/night is cost prohibitive.

[MrsPete]

Several thoughts:

- You never know what kind of kid you're going to get.  My oldest didn't sleep through the night 'til 18 months; in retrospect, I don't know how we did it.  My youngest was sleeping through the night by around 6 weeks -- yet I think I treated them the same way.  Their eating and nursing habits were also quite different, but that isn't the subject here. 

- My oldest is a nurse and works 12+ hour shifts at the hospital -- she is half dead when she comes home from a shift.  I can see that (in the future when she has a child) she might need a night nanny more than a person in a different job. 

- This isn't necessarily a job just for babies.  My nurse daughter, whom I just mentioned above, worked home health during college.  She had one job caring for an Alzheimer's patient.  The husband needed to sleep at night so he could go to work the next day, so he paid for a night nurse to take care of his wife, who tended to be wakeful and liked to wander at night.