Author Topic: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten  (Read 22439 times)

CharlesSowAV

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Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« on: March 19, 2016, 08:16:27 PM »
When I took a work-from-home job, I realized we could live ANYWHERE. We did tons of research about the best school district for our special-needs (autism) son, and we settled on a home just 3 doors down from the elementary school, and also walking distance to the middle school (where my husband will soon be teaching) and high school. Yay! We were very deliberate in wanting to find a great school system, and we did.

I'm still worried that my kids are spoiled rotten, though.

My children are 9, 6, and 3 about-to-be 4.

Now, the 3 year old goes to a very pricey ($160/week) private preschool. It has a swimming pool, computer lab, indoor playground. They have a Spanish teacher. But, it's the best option in town, and we really don't have any other choice. There's no way I could be on the phone with students all day with her home, and she's getting a good education. If there was a public preschool option, I'd be there in a heartbeat, but there isn't. Some preschools in the neighborhood are less expensive, but they'd mean a 20 minute drive each way whereas we can currently see her preschool from our house. But I feel embarrassed when family members who are still working on becoming middle-class see where I pick her up from school. It's just extravagant and ridiculous, really. I realize it's only for another year until she starts K, and I'm glad we were able to get in from the big waiting list, but I always look around that place and think, "Oh my gosh, this is all ridiculous!"

Our kids each have their own room (all 3). Our daughter has an en-suite with her own walk-in closet. We don't always get the newest and the best of the video game systems, but we have a wiiU and x-box 360. Each kid has a TV. We live in a nice subdivision with a pond, community park, community swimming pool. They all have bikes that they're able to freely ride around with their friends after school. This is the life I would want for my kids. It's a good life.

My kids have it so much better than I did growing up. I mean, really, they've got it great. We're a frugal family, but we still see movies, get popcorn, eat a Chick-fil-A. We live in a reasonably affluent area, so all of their friends have iPhones & laptops (in 3rd grade??), things we don't have, and the luxuries they have seem "normal" to them, even though they're not normal to most kids in America. They even have mentioned that we're "poor." How do I help my kids realize that they have it quite good? How do I help them see what we're trying to do for our future?


abhe8

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 08:36:04 PM »
Volunteer at a soup kitchen? Ours has buddy pack days, where we pack lunches and suppers for kid on free breakfast/lunch at school to take on weekends.

Buy less stuff? TV in bedrooms is bad, for a whole host of reasons, other then being spoiled.

For the preschooler, they have no clue how much their school costs. It sounds like the concern is other family knowing it's the expensive place in town. Part of what you are paying for is location, and it sounds like to you, that is more important then giving up the time to commute. That's OK.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 08:40:25 PM by abhe8 »

Matt_D

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 08:58:24 PM »
Volunteer at a soup kitchen? Ours has buddy pack days, where we pack lunches and suppers for kid on free breakfast/lunch at school to take on weekends.

Buy less stuff? TV in bedrooms is bad, for a whole host of reasons, other then being spoiled.

For the preschooler, they have no clue how much their school costs. It sounds like the concern is other family knowing it's the expensive place in town. Part of what you are paying for is location, and it sounds like to you, that is more important then giving up the time to commute. That's OK.

Agree with all of this.

I think another big portion is that you emphasize in conversations with your kids, husband, etc. that you ARE fortunate, well-off compared to 90+% of the world, and living the life you want. In my experience kids pick up on how their parents feel about their status... as they get older it can be friends too, but a lot starts at home. I'd think carefully about what messages you might be communicating without realizing it - and then make efforts to adapt as necessary.

GrowingTheGreen

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2016, 10:25:24 PM »
TV in bedrooms is bad, for a whole host of reasons, other then being spoiled.

This. Yes, it is a little bit of a spoiling characteristic, but it can also be a health issue. Study after study shows that having a tv in your room is not good for healthy sleep habits.

coolistdude

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 10:48:44 PM »
Volunteer at a soup kitchen? Ours has buddy pack days, where we pack lunches and suppers for kid on free breakfast/lunch at school to take on weekends.

Buy less stuff? TV in bedrooms is bad, for a whole host of reasons, other then being spoiled.

For the preschooler, they have no clue how much their school costs. It sounds like the concern is other family knowing it's the expensive place in town. Part of what you are paying for is location, and it sounds like to you, that is more important then giving up the time to commute. That's OK.

Agree with all of this.

I think another big portion is that you emphasize in conversations with your kids, husband, etc. that you ARE fortunate, well-off compared to 90+% of the world, and living the life you want. In my experience kids pick up on how their parents feel about their status... as they get older it can be friends too, but a lot starts at home. I'd think carefully about what messages you might be communicating without realizing it - and then make efforts to adapt as necessary.

A core MMM belief is that possessions aren't the foundation to a life filled with happiness. Volunteering is a good way to counterbalance this. Something I do with my wife (the kid is too young), is calculate how much money is wasted for something Anti-Mustachenian. So, someone at our kid's group has a brand new Chevy Suburban. We decided to look up the cost and calculate interest.

mxt0133

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 11:07:41 PM »
I know the feeling, coming from a third world country and being first generation immigrants where my parents had to start over.  We did not have it nearly as good as my kids have it now.  But I guess that was the point of my parents coming here and me working so hard in college, so that future generations can have it better than we did.  For the most part my brother and I are very grateful for the sacrifices that my parents went through for us.  Now it is our job to let our kids know what their grandparents and parents did to give them the live they have.  Not to point of making them feel guilty or indebted but to acknowledge that past generations worked hard to afford them the life they are able to lead now.  The thing is as kids they really don't have any context yet and nothing to compare it too if all they know is the life of luxury you have provided for them.  Unless your children have known real hunger, not having a snack between meals doesn't count, or suffering they do not yet have the capacity to empathize with those that have experienced it.  Spending a week or a few days volunteering to help the less fortunate won't do much either.

My advice would be to be open with them and take the time to explain to them what your goals are.  Everyday there are tons of 'teachable' moments to help them realize that not everyone has the choices you do.  When eating food and my kids don't want to eat or finish what I give them and ask for something else, I tell them that this is what the family is eating right now and if they don't like it they don't have to eat it, but that is all that will be served.  Even though they know we have other food to eat, I tell them that we do not wast food and what is served has to be eaten first.  When they want a new toy, I tell them that we have many toys at home to play with.  If they say they don't like the old toys then I ask them if we should donate it to other kids that don't have toys to play with?  However, they will not be getting replacements.

Again I try not to lay it on too thick, but for the most part my oldest knows that I work to earn money.  If we waste money then I have to work more and spend less time with them, for the most part they prefer spending more time with me than buying new things.  Once that changes, I have to come up with something along the lines of if you want it you work for it.

calimom

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 11:23:29 PM »
I would suggest not feeding your family from Chick-Fil-A. They're homophobic, have terribly unhealthy food and you can save money by cooking at home.

Take your children out in nature.

Agree with the others that televisions in bedrooms is a bad idea. Limit screen time altogether.


Pylortes

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2016, 11:44:10 PM »
Yes, #1 point to keep kids from being spoiled is of course to refrain from eating at Chick-Fil-A. (The political rant against this particular restaurant seems a little beside the point). I think exposure to other kids from other areas/demographics/income levels as well as discussions you have with your kids can help.  I think it's good practice at dinner (when you are down at the local Chick-Fil-A, heh he) to have everyone talk about something in their life they are thankful for.  My spouse thinks I'm strange but occasionally I will express my gratitude about our abundance of silverware etc, then I launch into a brief history of how only kings/noble persons could afford such luxury back in the Middle Ages. I also frequently talk to my son about how great things like modern dentistry, etc are, and give historical examples (he learned for example how George Washington had wooden teath so when it comes up in conversation we talk about how much that would have sucked and how lucky we are to have such great dentists/technology to help us these days).  I don't know if it all sinks in, but I do try to use my optimism gun as much as possible around my kids with how lucky we are to live today and even compared to most of the world.

pbkmaine

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2016, 12:55:37 AM »
Why does each child have a TV?

little_brown_dog

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2016, 06:34:45 AM »
Some of this is understandable (nice house, good schools, private rooms) but some of these choices are over the top. Providing private TVs for each child is an example of this. Private TVs are very bad for them developmentally. New research is showing that too much television and screen time has serious social, emotional, and even physical ramifications. The blue light emitted from the screen actually causes degeneration in the eye and has implications for cognitive development in younger children. Don't encourage MORE screen time by providing extra screens. One TV in a home should be plenty (yes, even with teenagers). Having TVs in each bedroom just means kids can retreat and avoid sharing the television - they can avoid navigating the complexities of having to pick a show everyone can watch, or just waiting their turn. If you think you MUST have more than 1 TV, place the second in a play room or other communal area - not an isolated one like a private bedroom.

Being spoiled isn't about what they physically have, it is a mindset. When you give a child the opportunity to just get what they want, when they want it, without sharing or compromising (ex: their own TV), you are setting them up to believe that they don't have to share, and should expect to get what they want.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 06:44:16 AM by little_brown_dog »

Dee18

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2016, 06:41:14 AM »
Get rid of the kid TVs.  Seriously.  All three of them. Children believe the ads they see on TV...they then want more things and believe those things will make them happier.  Have one family TV in a family room, with limited viewing time. (Ours was in a closet except in the summer or during the Olympics). If the kids need phones, get them only flip phones.  When they are old enough to earn money (not from you, from working for someone else), let them buy smartphones with their money.  Take them to the library, rather than buying books.  Help them learn to be safe cyclists.  Teach them to cook--they are all old enough to help with that--and to do laundry.  Give them responsibilities while they are still young enough to think that's great.

justajane

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2016, 07:18:14 AM »
Other than the TVs (seriously, that's insane. I don't know a single family who has TVs for each of their kids. My kids are 8, 6 and almost 2) and having TWO game systems (sell one if you get a new one), the stuff you mention aren't that out of line with the norm, even the frugal norm. For three days a week, our public preschool in a LCOL area is $400 a month. What you are paying sounds pretty reasonable. I wouldn't stress too much. It's a discreet amount of time that your children won't remember. If it's most convenient, go for it.

My kids have to share a room, since we have a 3 bed/2 bath house. In hindsight, maybe a different choice than a large home would have been good for your kids. But it would be weird to intentionally downsize your home so that your children "suffer" more, especially if you like your current home and it is in your budget.

In short, it doesn't sound like your kids are spoiled rotten, and if you stick to your guns about the phones and video game systems and get rid of the TVs, then I wouldn't stress too much about it. Try to talk to them about money more - not in a "Good lord, you're lucky. Some kids barely have enough to eat" way, but just explain to them how you don't buy them the latest whatever because you can't do that and be able to save for your and their futures.

I regularly get complaints from my oldest about how X friend has a newer video game system than we do. He'll even say, "I know you have the money to buy it...." But we just don't budge. We talk rationally with him about why he doesn't always get what he wants.

I was really bummed at Christmas when he came home from school after the first day back. Clearly he and his friends had compared their haul, and one of the boys got a new video game system. Apparently because one kid in his class got a system, now his Christmas haul was puny, even though a few days earlier he was thrilled about it. I think he got like 5-6 video games, 20+ books (the kid reads like crazy), a bunch of board games, two huge Nerf guns, etc. etc. Not all from us, but still. But because one kid got a $200+ gift, none of that mattered. It really frustrated me, especially because I guarantee you that other kids in the class got much less than my son did. We don't scrimp on Christmas.

As an aside, I don't get the Chick-fil-A thing. Sometimes a chicken sandwich is just a chicken sandwich.

ender

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2016, 07:23:02 AM »
"Good schools" are often correlated with higher income neighborhoods.

The best way? Spend time with your kids and take ownership of their childhood experience. Your kids might want stuff but spend time with them. Be engaged with their schoolwork. Don't just "we put them in a good school so they will magically become adults if we check out of their lives." TVs are an easy way to do this, incidentally. Get involved in understanding/knowing their friends.

Do things that are frugal and yet equally as awesome. Camping, parks, exploring the outdoors - these types of things are free and while will spoil them in some ways, just not the way you are worried about. Go on random adventures around the neighborhood. Catch frogs. Start a garden. Write letters to family members and make cards. Build a fort inside with blankets. Watch TV if you must as a family.

There are endless things that you can do which will enrich the lives of your children. It will take time and energy and focus. "Spoil" them with things you don't consider spoiling.




charis

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2016, 08:16:45 AM »
Yeah, what's with the TVs?  Your 3 year old has a TV?  I am baffled by this.  We have one TV in closed console in the living room.  It stays closed when the kids are awake unless it's "movie night"; otherwise they would be begging to watch tv constantly.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2016, 08:58:15 AM »
Agreed on the TVs.  Also, I'm a big proponent of kids sharing rooms.  Going to college? You're likely to have a roommate.  Get married? You'll have a roommate.  For some reason, our kids (including our oldest, who is high-functioning autistic) seem to get along best when they're in bed and supposed to be going to sleep! We've noticed that our 9yo daughter, who only shares her room with the baby, can get *very* catty when a brother comes into her bedroom.  Yes, privacy is important at times, but unselfishness and manners are important *all* the time.

Philosophically, it seems like the more our kids are isolated from others, the worse their behavior becomes.  So we give them every opportunity to work on being social. :)

WRT "it's a good life," I think it's worth remembering that once basic needs have been met, the correlation between material possessions and happiness weakens significantly.  If your kids are having trouble recognizing how good they have it, I'd recommend you give them an opportunity to see what it means to really be poor.  Give them a chance to volunteer somewhere, where they are helping other people.  In our area, there's a Feed My Starving Children place, where everyone can help assemble meals to be shipped to Africa and other places.  It's a fun, educational way for even kids to volunteer.

Stashing Swiss-style

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2016, 09:20:52 AM »
The cost of the private pre-school is immaterial from the perspective of spoiling your kids - little kids don't have any idea nor do they care about the cost of school.  But the TV thing is awful.  That's not "spoiling" your kids, that's being unkind to them!  My 3 kids are not allowed TV (or any screen time at all) from Monday to Thursday.  It's no problem for them - they have never known anything different and anyway they don't have time because they do other things during the week.  We limit (and monitor) their screen time over the weekend (and I still think they spend far too much time in front of a screen).  You have chosen great schools for your kids because you want them to grow and learn.  One thing they must learn is how to negotiate among themselves for TV-time.  One TV, for x hours per week.  They need to share.  As for the rest, they will learn from you.  If you are grateful for what you have and avoid consumerism, they will follow your lead.

Vanguards and Lentils

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2016, 09:51:20 AM »
This is the life I would want for my kids. It's a good life.

My kids have it so much better than I did growing up. I mean, really, they've got it great.

Interesting to see what's considered good and better:

I know the feeling, coming from a third world country and being first generation immigrants where my parents had to start over.  We did not have it nearly as good as my kids have it now.  But I guess that was the point of my parents coming here and me working so hard in college, so that future generations can have it better than we did. 


I don't have kids yet myself, and I'm second-generation, so perhaps I'm not as sympathetic on this as I could be. But in my opinion, "good" isn't the second generation living with whatever material possessions they want, and no awareness of the value of money. To me, the "good" already happened when the first generation worked hard, was willing to try something completely new, like immigrating, and knowing poor people (the majority of the world) and what it's like to be poor. If I ever have kids, I'd want to replicate that mindset in them, not have it be "better" for them, if "better" means they each have their own rooms, their own expensive electronics, name brand clothes, etc.

little_brown_dog

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2016, 09:56:00 AM »
This is the life I would want for my kids. It's a good life.

My kids have it so much better than I did growing up. I mean, really, they've got it great.

Interesting to see what's considered good and better:

I know the feeling, coming from a third world country and being first generation immigrants where my parents had to start over.  We did not have it nearly as good as my kids have it now.  But I guess that was the point of my parents coming here and me working so hard in college, so that future generations can have it better than we did. 


I don't have kids yet myself, and I'm second-generation, so perhaps I'm not as sympathetic on this as I could be. But in my opinion, "good" isn't the second generation living with whatever material possessions they want, and no awareness of the value of money. To me, the "good" already happened when the first generation worked hard, was willing to try something completely new, like immigrating, and knowing poor people (the majority of the world) and what it's like to be poor. If I ever have kids, I'd want to replicate that mindset in them, not have it be "better" for them, if "better" means they each have their own rooms, their own expensive electronics, name brand clothes, etc.

YES. If you read the book The Millionaire Next Door, there is a whole section devoted to why providing children with gifts and an affluent life actually hurts them and makes them less likely to do as well financially as their parents. Parents think that if they give their kids more than they had (more stuff, help buying homes, paying for all tuition even grad school or second degrees, providing infusions of money or monthly support to adult children) that they will be better off financially than they were. Turns out the opposite is true. Kids who receive too much from their parents tend to do worse than their parents did. That's why the biggest piece of advise financial gurus give to parents is "never let your kids know how wealthy you are" (either by telling them, giving them expensive gifts, or living a spendy lifestyle).
I have seen this play out in my own life. We have some wealthy family members who have done everything for their kids. Paid for college, grad school, cars, rent, the kids' "dream" hobbies/careers, vacations and luxury extras, etc. Compare that to my family and inlaws - our parents covered our undergrad tuition as best they could (75-100% in all cases), but we all had to find our own way after that. All of us are very successful, good with money, and a few of us are well on our way to FI. The very wealthy kids? Mid 20s, still floundering around, and require regular financial assistance from mom and dad. They are "k-adults" = kid adults.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:57:36 AM by little_brown_dog »

iris lily

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2016, 10:17:53 AM »
The constant exposure of children to tv is more of a marker of distressed socio-economic household than a financially comfortable household. I suspect the same for Chick Fil A.

Just sayin'. So maybe they arent so privileged after all!

Sorry, kidding. I think your children will sort it out when they are adults, realizing that they had a solid foundation for for growing up. I am not sure there is utility in teaching "you have so much while others have so little" as a specific life lesson. In reality, they will find that many people have a WHOLE LOT MORE than they have. Learning to measure oneself by what others have seems silly to me, and it encourages the fruitless class war that goes on these days where the evil 1% are vilified.

I think a much more useful life lesson is showing your children, regularly, the financial choices thatbyou as a family make in order to live your values. For instance, you choose to buy a nice ce house in a good school district where their sibling can get help, because you all value the mental health and  educational success of each other. You all do that rather than spending money on, say, a motor boat and a vacation house.

Living life according to what you value is really important. If you teach that and your children internalize it, then they will go out in life able to scale their consumer acquisitions to their income. What "others have" will be immaterial.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 10:23:32 AM by iris lily »

serpentstooth

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2016, 10:33:38 AM »
The constant exposure of children to tv is more of a marker of distressed socio-economic household than a financially comfortable household. I suspect the same for Chick Fil A.

Just sayin'. So maybe they arent so privileged after all!

My experience is that the lower you go down the socioeconomic ladder, the more likely you are to be in a home where the TV is on 24-7. For all we rag on cable subscriptions, TV is a very, very cheap way to entertain yourself, and it's one that doesn't require continual replenishment (going to the library for new books, procuring new hobby supplies/kits, etc.) to remain novel.

GizmoTX

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2016, 01:09:38 PM »
Most child development experts cringe at the use of the term "spoiled child." David Elkind, a professor of child development at Tufts University and author of The Hurried Child: Growing Up Too Fast Too Soon, says, "That's really a term from a different era. Parents who 'spoil,' often out of the best of intentions, really want to give their children everything without their having to work for it. But the world doesn't work that way."

Instead of "spoiled child," Peter A. Gorski, MD, director of the Lawton and Rhea Chiles Center for Healthy Mothers and Babies, prefers to use the term "overindulged" or "overprotected." These children may indeed "run the house" -- but it's because parents treat them like they're much younger than they are. "A key warning sign," he says, "is any child much older than the toddler years who continues to act like a baby or toddler -- kicking and screaming, biting other children, not using age-appropriate ways of communicating thoughts and feelings. This is a sign that they're not very secure about themselves."

So what to do?
Set age appropriate boundaries, starting with the toddler years.
Be consistent; ALWAYS do what you say you'll do, promptly.
Establish your outer limits of safety. Never vary the message.
Reinforce positive social behavior in a similar way.
Talk openly with your children about behavior as they get older.
Stay calm.

IMHO, talking about how fortunate your family is doesn't influence kids other than to either make them feel guilty or entitled, neither of which you want.

I'd remove all electronic devices from all kid rooms ASAP, including TVs, computers, video games, phone, & tablets. These need to be in a common family area where you can control their content. Ditto for doing homework, which can be in a separate area if noise is a concern.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 09:19:13 PM by GizmoTX »

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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galliver

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2016, 10:56:53 PM »
I grew up in a middle-low income (but very intellectual) family in neighborhoods with good schools usually dominated by people with higher incomes. I'm thinking about how my friends and their siblings turned out, and ultimately, I think everyone turned out ok by their mid-late 20s. Some received some form of support longer than others but with a goal in mind, rather than "living in the basement unemployed playing video games".  A few went through periods of greater materialism and snottiness in their tweens and teens, though. One friend in particular stands out, and if I had to guess, inferiority would play a role (she has a definitively angelic younger sister) but also her parents not holding her responsible for her behavior. She bragged to me in our teenage years about how she literally threw a fit until her parents gave her the 3rd bedroom as her own (previously used as an office), how she sneaked out to do whatever (make out with guys, go to parties), how the parents wanted her to go from her posh private school to public school since she wasn't putting in the effort to do well, but would get her a car if she chose that option. (Obviously, the correct answers here are: "Never give up, never surrender" and ground her for life; ground her for life, move her into YOUR bedroom for a while, and install a house alarm;  and transfer to her public school *regardless* and make her take the bus or walk). She ended up, as I hear it, graduating the fancy school but then partying away her first year at college on the other side of the country and failing out, which I believe sparked a touch of tough love and marked the beginning of her turnaround into a decent human being.

If I were to list some major factors I think contribute to people growing up into sensible not-jerks, I think they would be:
1) Parents and their example. You're halfway there even caring how they turn out. But they'll also emulate and internalize a lot of your behavior (maybe without either of you realizing it). How often do you buy new things, or upgrade/replace your old things? How do you talk about "stuff"? How do you talk about other people? What are your first questions when they make a new friend? How do you respond to them and their actions, appearance, decisions? (e.g. if you ever say "You're going to wear that? What will people think?" you are reinforcing that what others think matters. If you stand in line for every new iPhone, your exhortations about the needlessness of having every new toy will fall on deaf ears.)
2) Responsibility. I've seen a lot of material recently about how helicopter or "steamroller" parenting ultimately results in helplessness, anxiety, and depression among college students.  The more you do for your kid(s) that they can do for themselves, the more you are undermining their sense of independence and agency. The more you let them get away with (or worse, reinforce) negative behaviors the longer they will keep them. Teach them how to run a household by involving them (cook, clean, shop). Make them talk to their own teachers about poor performance before interfering; sometimes teachers are out of line; but that's not a first-resort assumption. Counsel them on how to solve problems rather than forcing whenever possible (I admit being banned from computer games for bad grades did me a lot of good at one point...but generally I could rely on my parents for good advice and not cramping my style). Finally, be open to well-reasoned, well-researched arguments; it's how adults justify their decisions and get what they want (instead of throwing a screaming fit). You want to reinforce that.
3) Deprivation (and lack thereof). I think short-term deprivation, like camping or retreating to a small primitive cabin, etc. can be really good for developing ruggedness, grit, and empathy. Things like having to carry water, use a nasty pit toilet, sleep on the hard ground, etc. Not to mention losing modern entertainment. I definitely don't think one needs every comfort and convenience and toy to have a good life. But, on the flip side, I think ongoing, long-term feelings of deprivation, even if they are artificially imposed or comparative (i.e. not having what friends have and they want, even if their needs in a strict sense are covered) can build up to cause resentment and/or splash out once they have some independence and start getting a paycheck. How often do we hear a story like "my spouse grew up very poor and spends every dollar they get their hands on" on this forum? I definitely think it's a fine line, but there's a distinction between raising a young shopaholic by catering to every whim, and being sensitive to the fact that kids are mean might exclude or bully a child who can't blend in sufficiently...maybe it's the wrong style or brand of pants, or they can't join in to go get sodas after practice, or they bring stinky weird food... there might be things that are incompatible with family values (video games, religion, etc?) but it's a "pick your battles" situation.
4) Generosity. Although we were on the lower end of the income spectrum relative to my peers, my friends were always welcome to come over to play, they would always be fed, they could join us for outings if there was room in the car (to the beach, museum, aquarium, hiking, etc). I don't think my parents ever asked to be paid back, and I expect sometimes they weren't. I think some of the jerkiest people are those who never learned to give freely, for the sake of giving and helping and the goodwill, without expecting equal monetary value back. So invite their friends over (even if the house is a mess), and your friends, too! Give to the food drive and the PTA. Watch your friends/family/neighbor's pets and kids as a favor. Maybe accept payment in homegrown lemons and then share a homebrew on the porch. Show them how to develop and value relationships (going back to #1) and thus *true* wealth and happiness.

Not an expert and not a parent, but that's my take on where good people come from. And while I wouldn't do a TV in each room, I don't think that alone is a death sentence for your goals.

justajane

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2016, 05:49:35 AM »
Not an expert and not a parent, but that's my take on where good people come from. And while I wouldn't do a TV in each room, I don't think that alone is a death sentence for your goals.

Yeah, I agree (written as my kids are watching a morning episode of Phineas and Ferb in the living room). Ignore the extreme doom and gloom about how television is going to turn your kids into useless blobs with no manners and no imagination. I only think it's a problem to put it in their rooms and to give them full access all the time. But an hour or two a day? Meh.

My brother and I watched TV for hours after school everyday. Could we have been more productive? Sure. But I liked the downtime and the zone out time. Even today, I do. And FWIW, I now have a PhD. I read a lot AND watched television and played video games. Imagine that. My older son is the same way. 

ender

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2016, 06:48:03 AM »
Not an expert and not a parent, but that's my take on where good people come from. And while I wouldn't do a TV in each room, I don't think that alone is a death sentence for your goals.

Yeah, I agree (written as my kids are watching a morning episode of Phineas and Ferb in the living room). Ignore the extreme doom and gloom about how television is going to turn your kids into useless blobs with no manners and no imagination. I only think it's a problem to put it in their rooms and to give them full access all the time. But an hour or two a day? Meh.


One way to think about this is that every 1 hour of TV a day a child watches translates to nine months straight of their lives spent watching TV when they turn 18.

Two hours of TV a day results in a year and a half of time.

 


justajane

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2016, 07:12:29 AM »
Not an expert and not a parent, but that's my take on where good people come from. And while I wouldn't do a TV in each room, I don't think that alone is a death sentence for your goals.

Yeah, I agree (written as my kids are watching a morning episode of Phineas and Ferb in the living room). Ignore the extreme doom and gloom about how television is going to turn your kids into useless blobs with no manners and no imagination. I only think it's a problem to put it in their rooms and to give them full access all the time. But an hour or two a day? Meh.


One way to think about this is that every 1 hour of TV a day a child watches translates to nine months straight of their lives spent watching TV when they turn 18.

Two hours of TV a day results in a year and a half of time.

And yet that thought doesn't horrify me.

I used to laugh when people would comment on how much my kid knew about nature and animals. Most of it he knew from Wild Kratts and Cat in the Hat, with maybe a little of other shows thrown in. Sure, if you just have them watch Sponge Bob all the time. But most of the kids programming these days is pretty educational and also deals with diversity, empathy, etc. I'm not saying it's a substitute for parental involvement, but it doesn't really detract from it. 

There are a lot of hours in your life. I'm okay with either me or my kids filling them with some television. I'm not into the must. optimize. every. fucking. minute. of. my. life. crowd.

golden1

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2016, 07:22:51 AM »
Quote
I think exposure to other kids from other areas/demographics/income levels as well as discussions you have with your kids can help.

This.  The only way for kids to really "get" how lucky they are isn't to tell them, it's to show them.  Our community has a (by first world standards) large range of types going from near the poverty line to very wealthy and my kids are friends with all types of kids.  My DD voluntarily gave up her allowance to sponsor a "Save the Children" child.  She gets pictures and letters and sees what this little girl who is her age has and compares it to her own life, and I think she is largely content.  Sure, she complains sometimes because we live in a town that has some rich kids that live in McMansions, but I have explained to her that I could have bought a house like that if I hadn't saved for her and her brother's college fund. 

I hate to nitpick, but I have a no TV in the bedroom policy and it starts with me.  I had one in my bedroom when I was in my 20's and I found that my sleep really suffered for it.  We have one TV in the family room and one in the basement and honestly that is probably 1 (or 2) too many. 

MrsDinero

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2016, 07:40:48 AM »
I agree with many of the others about the TV in the bedroom, but it isn't just material objects that will keep them from being spoiled.   You can't forget about teaching them personal responsibility and not taking their life (or possessions) for granted.

This can be done in a variety of ways, chores, community service, taking care of their stuff, pitching in for the family without expecting to be paid for it. 

There are a lot of age appropriate chores that you can give each child.  Even the almost 4 year old.  They can clear their place at the table and put their clothes in the laundry basket.

In the house I grew up in, once you reached age 11 you were responsible for your own laundry.  I'm not sure why 11, but that is how it worked.  We each had our own color for laundry basket (mine was purple).  My parents put a small step in the laundry room because even though I was 11, I was very petite and trouble reaching the dials. 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:42:39 AM by MrsDinero »

hunniebun

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2016, 08:50:08 AM »
I wonder about this for my own children as well. Overindulged would be the right word.  They have a lot and seem to get a lot from us (and family members), but that is not the part that concerns me. It is a lack of appreciation for what they have that they don't take care of things. When something gets broken, or lost, the attitude is...well I"ll just go get another one.  When I say I am not buying it they should have taken better care or whatever, they tell me they will just use their own money (of which they have a LOT from gifts etc.)  It is the easy come, easy go attitude without ever really have to work for it.   I have tried chore charts, when I buy something I try to relate it to how many hours I had to work for it and they just shrug...like, so what?    It is also the little things, like neither of my kids cut their own food.  This was understandable when they were little, but honestly...should a 7 year old not know how to cut their food?  I am an enabler, I understand that...because so often it is easier for me to just do it rather than argue about it or listen to the whining. I always feel like I only see them a few hours each evening and want that time to be enjoyable and relaxing, not a constant battle of wills...and then there you have it. I"ll have a 40 year old living at home off his birthday and christmas money while I cut up his steak for him! LOL!  I have no really useful advice, I just wanted to share that I think many parents struggle with find the right balance. 

acroy

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2016, 09:01:16 AM »
(describes incredible luxury) We're a frugal family  (describes more luxury)

riiiiight.....

Kids are self-centered hedonistic little savages; just the way it is. What they have is never enough. More more more! It takes maturity to develop frugality and appreciation.

What they have now is ‘normal’ for them; because it is normal. They don’t know any other way.


Easy wins:
-Remove all but 1 tv in a central area
-Limit tv to 1-2 hrs per day max, dependent on behavior/performance
-Have the kids share a room (a kid with an en-suite!?) and convert the others to guest rooms. This forces sharing & co-operation.

Soapbox:
Modern society tells parents to ‘provide the best life for their kids’ and we translate it as ‘luxury and stuff’.
Our job as parents is to train good adults. They don’t learn it by living a life of luxury and stuff.

Good luck!!


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2016, 10:23:10 AM »
I wonder about this for my own children as well. Overindulged would be the right word.  They have a lot and seem to get a lot from us (and family members), but that is not the part that concerns me. It is a lack of appreciation for what they have that they don't take care of things. When something gets broken, or lost, the attitude is...well I"ll just go get another one.  When I say I am not buying it they should have taken better care or whatever, they tell me they will just use their own money (of which they have a LOT from gifts etc.)  It is the easy come, easy go attitude without ever really have to work for it.   I have tried chore charts, when I buy something I try to relate it to how many hours I had to work for it and they just shrug...like, so what?    It is also the little things, like neither of my kids cut their own food.  This was understandable when they were little, but honestly...should a 7 year old not know how to cut their food?  I am an enabler, I understand that...because so often it is easier for me to just do it rather than argue about it or listen to the whining.
I've highlighted two things that I think are worth emphasizing.  Giving money freely is pretty much the same as giving toys/phones/whatever freely.  And it doesn't matter if it's you giving it to them, or friends or family.  I think what gives kids a better appreciation for things is when they witness or experience its scarcity.  When they have plenty of money to buy (or replace) things, they lose their appreciation, and don't take care of it as well.

So what about this idea:  set up a rule in the home that some percentage (enough to make it hurt a bit) of all money received as a gift needs to be either put in savings or donated to charity.  Yeah, DW didn't like it either, but from a philosophical point of view, it might work.

WRT enabling, that's one of the hardest parts of parenting, in my experience.  But I try to think of it as an investment.  I invest time and energy (and patience!) in teaching/forcing my kid to cut his food, and once we're over that hump, I receive dividends forever (I don't have to invest any *more* time and energy into actually cutting his food).  In the long run, it's a win-win--the kid "learns to fish," and I no longer have to give him fish.

hunniebun

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2016, 01:01:12 PM »
Excellent points zolotiyeruki.  Regarding the money received as gifts, we already remove 50% and put it into an account for the future.  But honestly, when a kid gets $500 dollars between his b-day and Christmas, it is still too much.   I like your idea that it has to be enough to hurt (like he can keep 20 and the rest goes away).    I also really appreciate the idea of investing the time now for dividends for live...but as so many parents find, there are literally only so many hours in a day. I need to make a list of things that I feel each child should be responsible for tackle one a week. 

galliver

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2016, 03:58:26 PM »
Excellent points zolotiyeruki.  Regarding the money received as gifts, we already remove 50% and put it into an account for the future.  But honestly, when a kid gets $500 dollars between his b-day and Christmas, it is still too much.   I like your idea that it has to be enough to hurt (like he can keep 20 and the rest goes away).    I also really appreciate the idea of investing the time now for dividends for live...but as so many parents find, there are literally only so many hours in a day. I need to make a list of things that I feel each child should be responsible for tackle one a week.

One other thing to consider, possibly more applicable to older kids: you could let them keep more of it, but make them responsible for an entire spending category with their money. After all, adults don't get to spend all their earnings on wants; learning that your money is there to take care of your needs is important. I usually think of this in terms of allowance, but gift money could be their clothing budget for the year, or cover field trips (especially if you think some of them have more fun value than educational).

mxt0133

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2016, 09:28:56 PM »
It is also the little things, like neither of my kids cut their own food.  This was understandable when they were little, but honestly...should a 7 year old not know how to cut their food?  I am an enabler

What your kids don't know how to cut their own food?  Are you talking about a fruits, breads and soft meat?  Or are you talking about cutting up a whole chicken or steak?  But seriously my kids would use my power tools if I let them.  I let my oldest use a butter knife at like two and he started to cut everything up.  He helps me prepare food all the time.  What we do is give him a small portions to prepare so there is no rush and if doesn't work out no big deal.  He knows how to mix pancake batter, a electric mixer, and just graduated to using a peeler.

The point being give them some tasks that won't cause you any stress and expect them to do a horrible job because well they are learning.  They don't have to immediately know how to prepare a full meal but you have to let them try things.

mxt0133

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2016, 09:43:46 PM »
Excellent points zolotiyeruki.  Regarding the money received as gifts, we already remove 50% and put it into an account for the future.  But honestly, when a kid gets $500 dollars between his b-day and Christmas, it is still too much.   I like your idea that it has to be enough to hurt (like he can keep 20 and the rest goes away).    I also really appreciate the idea of investing the time now for dividends for live...but as so many parents find, there are literally only so many hours in a day. I need to make a list of things that I feel each child should be responsible for tackle one a week.

Yeah, no way in hell I'm letting my 5 or even 9 year old spend $250 as they see fit.  My kids get similar amounts through out the year from family but they never see it.  I keep it in a savings account our use it to fund activities. 

My oldest get an allowance and he has to save 50%.  At first he would buy lots of small toys, but I would point out that he would just lose them, eventually he stopped.  Then he wanted to buy his own sweets.  I only allow the purchase if it was an appropriate amount and not a whole tub of ice cream or anything like that.  From there he graduated to more expensive toys and one time he wanted a expensive to me remote control car.  At the time I knew it was an impulse buy so I tried the delay tactic.  I told him that we would come back for it as we didn't have his money with us, which was true.  He remembered so we went back and bought it.  After a week or two, it is on the donate pile.  We live in small apartment so any new toy brought in the house needs a corresponding toy to be donated to sold.  So we talked about and he stopped playing with it because it wasn't all that interesting.  Hopefully he learned something.  I'm trying to balance letting them make small financial mistakes now to avoid making them when their older.  Better to learn from buying a $30 toy than a $30K car.

BeanCounter

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2016, 11:26:26 AM »
I think it's a good question and there is lots of good ideas in this thread. I struggle with this a bit myself. We too live in a very nice subdivision in a too big 3,000 square foot house, and the kids go to private school. And I realize that this is obscene. But I feel like a nice, safe neighborhood and excellent schools are things that we earned for ourselves and our children by getting our education and working good jobs.

The best way I can think to balance it all is to keep everything else as simple as possible and be mindful each time you make a decision for your child if you are giving them what they truly need or if it's just another want. I don't believe that you can make a child understand that they are lucky. It's something they have to figure out through experience and some maturity. It's nice to spend time helping others so that they can have that opportunity.

Most importantly, your children will never truly feel fortunate or blessed if they have things, but not your time, attention and love. I think sometimes children who have lots of "stuff" but not enough of Mom and Dad act spoiled.

IllusionNW

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2016, 12:13:32 PM »
Whoa, $160/week for preschool!? That's amazing. We are on a wait list for daycare that is $2200 per month! Hopefully we won't have to use it as it is our back up plan.

So I grew up in a really affluent area as the "poorest" kids there. My friends all got new luxury cars when they turned sixteen and we were the family that never ate at restaurants or got nice things. Us kids had to work at the family business during school breaks and some evenings and I always thought we were poor. Turns out my parents are prototype "millionaires next door," but despite living in this really affluent area, they lived very frugally and my brother and I were never spoiled. Now we are both frugal. So I definitely think you can do it in the environment you describe, just don't try to keep up with the Joneses.

SwordGuy

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2016, 05:02:02 PM »
Our job as parents is to train good adults.


Yes!  Yes!   Yes!


iris lily

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2016, 05:30:15 PM »
(describes incredible luxury) We're a frugal family  (describes more luxury)

riiiiight.....

Kids are self-centered hedonistic little savages; just the way it is. What they have is never enough. More more more! It takes maturity to develop frugality and appreciation.

What they have now is ‘normal’ for them; because it is normal. They don’t know any other way.


Easy wins:
-Remove all but 1 tv in a central area
-Limit tv to 1-2 hrs per day max, dependent on behavior/performance
-Have the kids share a room (a kid with an en-suite!?) and convert the others to guest rooms. This forces sharing & co-operation.

Soapbox:
Modern society tells parents to ‘provide the best life for their kids’ and we translate it as ‘luxury and stuff’.
Our job as parents is to train good adults. They don’t learn it by living a life of luxury and stuff.

Good luck!!
I lughed at this.
Amusing, and true.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2016, 03:55:34 PM »
I went to an expensive private primary school. I had no idea my parents paid for school for several years. Then for several years after that I thought everyone's parents paid for them to go to school. Children have NO IDEA what other families do unless you show or tell them. Every detail of your life is "normal". I didn't realise people owned pans that weren't non-stick until I was 17 and went to a friend's house and we cooked together. I was all, "What's with your weird pans?" It never occurred to me that other people could have different pans from my parents.

To my mind, there are three elements to raising non-spoiled children:

1. CHORES CHORES CHORES. Genuine contributions to running the household.
2. With every right (later bedtime, more money, being allowed to go out on your own) comes a responsibility. (Maybe a chore, maybe something related like the responsibility to let your parents know where you are and when you will be home if you're allowed out alone.) Don't live up to the responsibility? The right is revoked for a period of time.
3. Modelling and praising mature behaviour, be it sharing with siblings or asking for something by having a reasoned discussion. Yes, this may be hard at first if they are used to having tantrums or whining. But it's like compound interest. For every one time you work on this now, that is a hundred times you don't have to deal with it in the future. Do you really want to give future you the shaft?

tobitonic

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2016, 09:25:28 PM »
One way to think about this is that every 1 hour of TV a day a child watches translates to nine months straight of their lives spent watching TV when they turn 18.

Two hours of TV a day results in a year and a half of time.

And yet that thought doesn't horrify me...There are a lot of hours in your life. I'm okay with either me or my kids filling them with some television. I'm not into the must. optimize. every. fucking. minute. of. my. life. crowd.

+1. It's so ridiculously neurotic to add up the amount of time spent doing an activity over several years and use it to beat yourself or others over the head with the threat of a wasted life. We aren't robots. The purpose of life is not neverending optimization.

mxt0133

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2016, 10:18:13 PM »
The purpose of life is not neverending optimization.

Now you tell me!  What the hell have I been doing this whole time reading MMM.

hunniebun

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2016, 10:01:14 AM »
Hmm...well, turns out I was just being lazy. Both my kids are now cutting their own food with no fuss (after the first day). It is huge mess...but hopefully they will get better at it.  I also had the 7 year old pull out the vacuum and clean up the crumbs he got all over the floor.  He looked at me like I had two heads, but did it with minimal complaint.  Now I am see all sorts of areas where they can take more responsibility.  I have taken all but 40$ of the money, which will only work if his father stops buying him stuff (like a new set of golf clubs that showed up last week). Sigh.  He is not and never will fugal, so it is a lost cause...but we had a chat and I think he is on board with stopping the expensive gifts for nothing...even if it is sport equipment (His rationale is that kids should have whatever they want, if it makes them active and gets the outdoors more).    I don't entirely disagree, but we could have bought a used set for 1/4 the price.  Anyhow, a few things for the win against entitlement!

Psychstache

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2016, 10:40:25 AM »
The purpose of life is not neverending optimization.

Now you tell me!  What the hell have I been doing this whole time reading MMM.
Does.not.compute. processors. Overloading. Must. Reboot. *beep* *boop* *beep*

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shelivesthedream

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2016, 11:26:00 AM »
Hmm...well, turns out I was just being lazy. Both my kids are now cutting their own food with no fuss (after the first day). It is huge mess...but hopefully they will get better at it.  I also had the 7 year old pull out the vacuum and clean up the crumbs he got all over the floor.  He looked at me like I had two heads, but did it with minimal complaint.  Now I am see all sorts of areas where they can take more responsibility.  I have taken all but 40$ of the money, which will only work if his father stops buying him stuff (like a new set of golf clubs that showed up last week). Sigh.  He is not and never will fugal, so it is a lost cause...but we had a chat and I think he is on board with stopping the expensive gifts for nothing...even if it is sport equipment (His rationale is that kids should have whatever they want, if it makes them active and gets the outdoors more).    I don't entirely disagree, but we could have bought a used set for 1/4 the price.  Anyhow, a few things for the win against entitlement!

I've been watching a lot of crap TV lately to finish knitting a jumper, and I've been amazed by this show called Supernanny. Basically parents with the most unbelievably terrible children call this woman called Jo Frost who teaches them some simple parenting techniques. The biggest thing she does, though, is encourages/forces them to stick with it. The first time every kid has a mega tantrum and the parents turn round and say "See, nothing works" but Supernanny just turns the parent round and makes them try again. By about the third incident the child totally gets it and is transformed. I'm sure a lot of it is glossed over for television, but that moment when the parent gives up and Supernanny says that you can do it if you are firm and consistent and giving up is not firm and consistent is always great. Most of the parents discover that their children are not unbearably picky or demanding or aggressive, but they need to draw a line in the sand and square up to it and not give an inch. If they can do that (and the children will test the line) then their children will do anything, from trying new foods to doing chores to being friendly with other siblings. But the second you show weakness, they pounce!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 11:33:15 AM by shelivesthedream »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2016, 12:27:06 PM »
Hmm...well, turns out I was just being lazy. Both my kids are now cutting their own food with no fuss (after the first day). It is huge mess...but hopefully they will get better at it.  I also had the 7 year old pull out the vacuum and clean up the crumbs he got all over the floor.  He looked at me like I had two heads, but did it with minimal complaint.  Now I am see all sorts of areas where they can take more responsibility. 
Kids are a lot more capable than we often give them credit for.  I actually did exactly this with our 7-year-old this morning (made him cut his own food).  He just about threw a fit, but within a few seconds (literally!), he was fine, and cut his food for the rest of the meal without any complaint.  Kids *love* to learn to do new things, especially things they see their parents (or other adults) doing.

FWIW, we expect our 7-year-old to be able perform the following chores independently (the kids rotate jobs weekly): load the dishwasher, unload the dishwasher, pick up a room, set the table, hand wash dishes (like cookie sheets and cast iron pans), clear and wipe down tables or counters, start a load of laundry, move a load of laundry across, vacuum, take out the trash.  With help from Mom or Dad, he also (when it's his week) cleans the kids' bathroom (mirrors, sinks & counter, bathtub, toilet) and folds laundry.  Our older kids can do those completely independently, and our younger ones still need some help with more chores.

Christof

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2016, 03:23:46 PM »
For most chores it depends on how much independency and especially how much perfection you need. A three year old can do most of these tasks. Setting a table will end up with forks and knives being upside down or on the wrong side of a plate. Picking up a room might require repeated reminders of what to pick next. Dishes are placed in the dish washer with lots of spare room. Vegetables are cut in very differently sized pieces. Kids don't see the drawbacks of certain approaches and certainly don't plan ahead as much.

lifejoy

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2016, 04:11:51 PM »
Do you talk about money with your kids? My mom would annoy us by always talking about how much things cost: turn the lights off, it wastes electricity and wastes money; no-name Kraft dinner is cheaper; you don't need a new ___ if we can get you a good second hand one. I grew up very comfortably middle class, but I always knew what things cost and how to get a good deal. I think perhaps one way to avoid spoiling kids is to always let them know the cost of things, and how to budget. It sure helped me!

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Re: Keep my kids from being spoiled rotten
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2016, 09:21:17 PM »
I'm definitely in the no TVs in the bedrooms camp and would shut that down asap, but aside from that I think it is really in the parenting.

I do think it's good to be transparent with kids about money and not hide the wealth, just teach them about the hard work that got you where you are and how their hard work can get them there too. My parents were transparent with me with wealth and I learned so much from it. We were poor until I was a teen, then started doing pretty well and my dad would show me the tax statements and talk about savings and investments and future plans any time I asked. I feel like I got a good handle on things from those conversations alone. My college was paid for, but I spent every penny like it was my own because I knew how hard they worked for it. I chose an economic school, a difficult major, lived at home through school to save money and got As. My husband's parents were very secretive about money, although better off. He has told me before that he learned more about money from me than them.

I only have a 7m old and am not qualified to give parenting advice, but as someone who was raised by good parents I would say: teach them about how money is not things, it is security to know you can eat and sleep in a warm safe dry place while you pursue more important life goals and community. Don't buy stuff. When they get older, run calculations and build spreadsheets showing them how much of a head start you are giving them by helping with college. Mostly, don't make money a big deal. Live life, have family time, lead by example with mindfulness and gratitude.