Author Topic: How smart phones are destroying a generation  (Read 4443 times)

CargoBiker

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2017, 08:34:41 PM »
My wife has worked at a daycare for 10 years, and says that the 4 and 5 year olds she have now, have zero imagination.  None.  They don't even know how to play with toys. 

She says that our 2-year-old is leaps and bounds above them in this area (she gets close to zero screen time).


It's just really sad.
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2017, 09:49:01 PM »
My wife has worked at a daycare for 10 years, and says that the 4 and 5 year olds she have now, have zero imagination.  None.  They don't even know how to play with toys.

I don't mean to defend smartphones -I'm one of those people who tense up when people bring them out at IRL gatherings. But, I saw this phenomenon once -in a place that had never had internet, electronics, etc.

My sense of that situation was that the children lacked imagination (and it was frightening, yes) as a result of trauma. I think there can be many sources of trauma, including general overwhelm, separation, etc, which I think our culture is prone to even without smart devices.

Is anyone else here a fan of the work of Mate and Neufeld? I think many people interested in the topics of personal electronics, parenting, children's communities, and cultures would enjoy it.

LonerMatt

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2017, 02:02:24 AM »
A few quick thoughts, sorry these are contentious.

1. As a High School teacher I will almost never use technology in the classroom. The way text on screen changes reading habits, for example, is incredibly detrimental to successful and deep learning. Be incredibly wary of any school pushing technology - there is likely little debate inside the school about the value of technology in education (it's largely non-existent for a few reasons). Paper works a lot better for almost every task (research, coding and a few other niche skills excepted)

2. In these sorts of debates some people are bound to talk about how one just needs to be smarter than the technology (usually they'll use words like 'aware' or 'conscious' or 'in control'). This point ignores something incredibly significant: social media (and some games) have increasingly been engineered by people who design gambling machines, psychologists studying addictive behaviours and other experts who know more about how your brain works than you do.

In an economy that increasingly commodifies attention (the more time spent in-app the more $ they make through advertising) it's incredibly misinformed to think that being 'more aware' of technology's affects is a realistic strategy. Problem gamblers realise there is a problem sometimes and can't stop, how many people have said they hate spending as much time on FB, IG, SnapChat? It's not weak willpower, it's habits formed, strengthened and manipulated by engineering specifically made to increase people's use of those apps.

Primarily you've got a lot of brains and money being spent to capture, retain and manipulate your attention by people who do not know you and do not love you.

3. Social Media and information is an incredibly chilling topic. Outrage gains the most attention time, so we live in a media space where it's increasingly exaggerated in order to foster outrage and get that time spent on article metric up. We've all seen how media and information are warped by social media and it should worry us.

Have people worried about old technology people. Yes. Have those people had a point? Almost always. Look at how automation is killing people's jobs - the luddites had a point, even if they were misguided. Look at how a 24/7 news cycle and sound-bite driven media strategies have become increasingly problematic. Critics of TV had a point.

Things progress, change is constant, there are genuinely problems with all media. Media changes us, even if we (falsely) believe we are in control. If you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you've got a smartphone everything looks like a quick-look, skim-read, captivating but shallow, gamified piece of shit.

4. Parents of boys, in particular. Misogyny is terrible, and a lot of dating apps (which teens are increasingly using) don't make matter better. Reducing interaction to a 'hit it or quit it' swipe left or swipe right interaction with someone who is still forming norms with those they are attracted to can be incredibly damaging. Girls are constantly pressured to share nude images, put out and are shamed if they don't.

Men pressuring women for sex is a constant problem in our world - some of the ways people are using their phones are changing the way they view women (just like porn changes the way we view sex, and therefore sexual partners).
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 02:08:39 AM by LonerMatt »
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2017, 02:28:13 AM »
Every generation has a thing that their parents think is ruining them. It's just means you're old ;)
Here is the phone-specific part.

Exactly.  TV, rock-and-roll, video games, etc. were going to ruin everything and doom society.  Smart phones are just the latest thing to lay blame on.

Maybe TV & video games did ruin things, and now it's only getting worse? I don't see how that comparison is proving anything.

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2017, 04:30:52 AM »
My wife has worked at a daycare for 10 years, and says that the 4 and 5 year olds she have now, have zero imagination.  None.  They don't even know how to play with toys. 

She says that our 2-year-old is leaps and bounds above them in this area (she gets close to zero screen time).


It's just really sad.
Lots of good stuff on this thread. I'm still digesting, but the above stuck out to me. I have two boys 8 and 4. We limit screens a good bit. Always have. Despite that, my oldest has zero imagination and doesn't really play with toys. My youngest can get lost for HOURS playing on his own with all kinds of toys and things. I really think it just depends on the kid and their personality. I will admit that we did play with my oldest too much, so that may have contributed to it.

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2017, 06:50:18 AM »
Posting to follow this disturbing thread about an important topic. My experience with trying to rein in adolescent boys' tech use is that it is a completely confounding task. My boys have become utterly addicted to their phones and laptops, to the point where, when wifi was unavailable at his Dad's place, one son moved out to a friend's place. Oh, and video games. We found That if we forbade, or even limited, them at home, the kids would never be home, but instead go to other places to play (and I don't know what else is going on in those places). It seems to be their primary means of interaction with friends. And guess what? They bring those fucking game consoles to college. And if your kid doesn't, you can bet one of his roommates will. It is hours upon hours of their daily life energy spent. I believe this really is something new under the sun.

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2017, 07:16:34 AM »
Posting to follow this disturbing thread about an important topic. My experience with trying to rein in adolescent boys' tech use is that it is a completely confounding task. My boys have become utterly addicted to their phones and laptops, to the point where, when wifi was unavailable at his Dad's place, one son moved out to a friend's place. Oh, and video games. We found That if we forbade, or even limited, them at home, the kids would never be home, but instead go to other places to play (and I don't know what else is going on in those places). It seems to be their primary means of interaction with friends. And guess what? They bring those fucking game consoles to college. And if your kid doesn't, you can bet one of his roommates will. It is hours upon hours of their daily life energy spent. I believe this really is something new under the sun.

Do you think there was a point at which you could have put your foot down and headed things off at the pass, so to speak? I ask as a mom of 3 whose oldest is 10. I mean, obviously you've got to let go once they're in college but in hindsight, do you see a point at which you might have changed things by not buying a cell phone or gaming console?

I am not judging at all but I am really shocked at what you wrote (and I see that there is obviously a divorce involved, which complicates things). My immediate reaction is that if my kids were trying to circumvent my rules by relocating to a friends' house, I'd take away their car.  But I fully acknowledge that the most confident experts on parenting are those who've never had kids (i.e. I haven't walked in your shoes yet so I'm talking out of my ass).

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2017, 08:11:29 AM »
I enjoyed this article: http://project-based-homeschooling.com/camp-creek-blog/sliver-or-how-stop-fighting-about-screen-time

tl;dr:
"Many parents approach the subject of screen time — or other kid activities they don’t like, like reading comic books — by placing a strong limit on it. They say to their child, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are cramming all the stuff you love that we don’t like into this sliver.”
"Then the parents get to experience the ever-burgeoning frustration of having their child riveted on that sliver of time. The kids want to talk about it. They want to bargain for more of it. They want to argue about whether they got their fair share of it. Why? Because the sliver is where all the good stuff is.

What we need to do is flip it around."
"We say, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are going to allot a portion of our day to the stuff that really matters — the stuff we think is important.”"

*****************
Read it, she makes some good points. Then again, this coming from a mom of 4 boys, the oldest of whom is only 5, so definitely not judging here, those with older kids probably know a lot more about this than me.

So I tried her idea out yesterday. I got some super fun entertaining things that I approve of and that I know my kids would find interesting (blocks of lumber of different sizes). Instead of competing with the screens, like screens=bad, free play=good, I just left them strewn about.

They've been playing with those blocks constantly. They still watch tv and play with their tablet, but they independently choose to do this other activity. Not because I said they must, but because it is also good in its own right.

So (again, take with a grain of salt, I am not dealing with teens here), maybe the takeaway is that make your life fun enough that kids WANT to be a part of it?
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2017, 08:49:00 AM »
Posting to follow this disturbing thread about an important topic. My experience with trying to rein in adolescent boys' tech use is that it is a completely confounding task. My boys have become utterly addicted to their phones and laptops, to the point where, when wifi was unavailable at his Dad's place, one son moved out to a friend's place. Oh, and video games. We found That if we forbade, or even limited, them at home, the kids would never be home, but instead go to other places to play (and I don't know what else is going on in those places). It seems to be their primary means of interaction with friends. And guess what? They bring those fucking game consoles to college. And if your kid doesn't, you can bet one of his roommates will. It is hours upon hours of their daily life energy spent. I believe this really is something new under the sun.

Do you think there was a point at which you could have put your foot down and headed things off at the pass, so to speak? I ask as a mom of 3 whose oldest is 10. I mean, obviously you've got to let go once they're in college but in hindsight, do you see a point at which you might have changed things by not buying a cell phone or gaming console?

I am not judging at all but I am really shocked at what you wrote (and I see that there is obviously a divorce involved, which complicates things). My immediate reaction is that if my kids were trying to circumvent my rules by relocating to a friends' house, I'd take away their car.  But I fully acknowledge that the most confident experts on parenting are those who've never had kids (i.e. I haven't walked in your shoes yet so I'm talking out of my ass).

I honestly cannot see a way we could have stopped it. We live in a rural/exurban area, so playdates are often fairly distant and overnights common. We are pretty crunchy folks who, because we hate the ads, had no TV in either house (still have no cable); our kids both went to crunchy private schools where nature time was valued and screen activities were not forbidden, but not a big part of the curriculum. I was absolutely blindsided by the fact that when our kids went to hang with their friends, those families' leisure was very centered around screens, and that quickly became established for my kids as "normal." Once smartphones were in the picture (believe me, we resisted as long as we could), kids were texting, FBing, Snapchatting, etc. When a bit older, Tinder is a thing, at least for older kid. God knows what else. Older kid at one point even found some of those dark commerce sites like Silk Road, as well as some very intense and scary right-wing propaganda forums. I think I would be naive if I did not assume porn were in the mix -- at least, exposure to it.

I did not have 16 hours a day to police 100% of my kids' activities, and that is literally what it would have taken. And I would have been actively resisted at every turn, which is/was a losing battle both for my sanity and for the unity of our family. Their dad is an excellent person (amicable divorce) but 10 years older than I am and even less technologically inclined, though he did manage ultimately to put his wifi on a timer so limits would happen even without parental presence. But of course the kids know how to plug in their laptops when no one is standing over them. Now the older kid has serious attention issues that I believe are not necessarily caused but certainly exacerbated by the technology. Younger is doing better at self-regulating, plus he's a college athlete who HAS to spend analog time practicing and playing. But he and his teammate roomies? Playstation, baby. I do not believe he's read more than one or two physical books since high school. College textbooks are mostly available in electronic form.

All I know how to do, at this point, is make them pay for their own tech toys and subscriptions and set a good example of being a person who does real things in the real world, and try to include them in that as much as they will tolerate.

I would be lying if I said that technology isn't at least somewhat addictive for me and for my ex as well, even if it expresses itself as participation in this forum. And as WhiteTrashCash said, it doesn't help my state of mind.

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
But I fully acknowledge that the most confident experts on parenting are those who've never had kids (i.e. I haven't walked in your shoes yet so I'm talking out of my ass).
So, speaking as a non-parent here, but recent-enough teenager (graduated high school in 2009, 26 years old), trying to provide the teenager's perspective, without giving explicit parenting advice:

My wife has worked at a daycare for 10 years, and says that the 4 and 5 year olds she have now, have zero imagination.  None.  They don't even know how to play with toys. 

She says that our 2-year-old is leaps and bounds above them in this area (she gets close to zero screen time).


It's just really sad.
Lots of good stuff on this thread. I'm still digesting, but the above stuck out to me. I have two boys 8 and 4. We limit screens a good bit. Always have. Despite that, my oldest has zero imagination and doesn't really play with toys. My youngest can get lost for HOURS playing on his own with all kinds of toys and things. I really think it just depends on the kid and their personality. I will admit that we did play with my oldest too much, so that may have contributed to it.
I was never one to play that much with toys as a kid (baffled my parents a bit, they said later), and I never had cable at home, didn't play video games in any capacity until I was 11, didn't have real internet access until I was about 13, didn't have my own computer (and therefore pretty private internet usage) until 16, didn't have a cell phone of any kind until 18, and didn't have a smartphone until 20.  I don't think technology was why I wasn't playing with toys when I was <10.  My "imagination" has always had more of an internal manifestation than external.  I was the kid that drew circuit diagrams of my grandpa's attic in kindergarten when other kids would draw rabbits and shit.  I hated coloring in elementary school.  The only technology I had been exposed to at that time were even-ancient-at-the-time Apple IIs in the computer lab at my elementary school, where we once typed some things that we printed on dot-matrix printers.

Posting to follow this disturbing thread about an important topic. My experience with trying to rein in adolescent boys' tech use is that it is a completely confounding task. My boys have become utterly addicted to their phones and laptops, to the point where, when wifi was unavailable at his Dad's place, one son moved out to a friend's place. Oh, and video games. We found That if we forbade, or even limited, them at home, the kids would never be home, but instead go to other places to play (and I don't know what else is going on in those places). It seems to be their primary means of interaction with friends. And guess what? They bring those fucking game consoles to college. And if your kid doesn't, you can bet one of his roommates will. It is hours upon hours of their daily life energy spent. I believe this really is something new under the sun.
Teenagers are stubborn.  Teenagers are very stubborn.  I was a stubborn teenager (and now I'm a slightly-less-stubborn adult).  You tell them they can't do something they want to do, of course they're going to figure out a way to do it anyway if they really want it that much.  They're smart.  (This goes back to my other post about resourceful teens finding loopholes in restricted school-issued tablets/laptops.)  But their prefrontal cortex isn't 100% developed just yet so abstract reasons (like "It's bad for you") don't mean much to them.  They'll understand when they're older, but telling them that probably sounds demeaning to their ears, because teenagers think they know everything already.

And there's way worse than gaming consoles in college.

Do you think there was a point at which you could have put your foot down and headed things off at the pass, so to speak? I ask as a mom of 3 whose oldest is 10. I mean, obviously you've got to let go once they're in college but in hindsight, do you see a point at which you might have changed things by not buying a cell phone or gaming console?

I am not judging at all but I am really shocked at what you wrote (and I see that there is obviously a divorce involved, which complicates things). My immediate reaction is that if my kids were trying to circumvent my rules by relocating to a friends' house, I'd take away their car. 
I didn't have a cell phone until 18, but things wouldn't have changed much for me as far as video games go.  I almost always bought them with my own money (so used last-generation console and games), which meant very few games until I started working at 14.  If I had $20, I could buy one game, and it had to be a really good one that would be worth it.  (In fact, in 2013 I sold off a bunch of my old N64 games I bought around that time, and nearly all of them actually *appreciated* in value because I only bought good, still-sought-after-now games.  The other games I bought later and was therefore a bit more slapdash about, did not have that result.)  Games were what first made me into a "saver."  Why would I spend $1 on a candy bar when not buying 20 candy bars meant I could buy a video game that would provide hundreds of hours of value over many years?  This also bothered my mom, because she couldn't ever get me to want to buy new clothes, even in high school when I was working.  I'd much rather wear last year's clothes and have money leftover (this remains true to my adult life, and has extended with time to include 5-7 year old clothes).  I thought it was a waste.  But video games "were a waste of money" to her.  I got scolded for saving up $350 to buy a Wii and two games when it came out in 2006, but if I had blown $50/mo on clothes over the previous seven months, she would have been happy with that.  Parents tend to have different values than their teenagers.  You can't force them.

I enjoyed this article: http://project-based-homeschooling.com/camp-creek-blog/sliver-or-how-stop-fighting-about-screen-time

tl;dr:
"Many parents approach the subject of screen time — or other kid activities they don’t like, like reading comic books — by placing a strong limit on it. They say to their child, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are cramming all the stuff you love that we don’t like into this sliver.”
"Then the parents get to experience the ever-burgeoning frustration of having their child riveted on that sliver of time. The kids want to talk about it. They want to bargain for more of it. They want to argue about whether they got their fair share of it. Why? Because the sliver is where all the good stuff is.

What we need to do is flip it around."
"We say, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are going to allot a portion of our day to the stuff that really matters — the stuff we think is important.”"

*****************
Read it, she makes some good points. Then again, this coming from a mom of 4 boys, the oldest of whom is only 5, so definitely not judging here, those with older kids probably know a lot more about this than me.

So I tried her idea out yesterday. I got some super fun entertaining things that I approve of and that I know my kids would find interesting (blocks of lumber of different sizes). Instead of competing with the screens, like screens=bad, free play=good, I just left them strewn about.

They've been playing with those blocks constantly. They still watch tv and play with their tablet, but they independently choose to do this other activity. Not because I said they must, but because it is also good in its own right.

So (again, take with a grain of salt, I am not dealing with teens here), maybe the takeaway is that make your life fun enough that kids WANT to be a part of it?
I really like this idea.  Now that I think of it, this sort of thing was always the best way to "get me away from the video games/computer/whatever."  Make me actively want to do something else, and I will.  They would also praise and encourage me when they saw me doing something they wanted me to do more of (whether it was playing the piano, or checking out 30 dinosaur books at a time from the library in third grade and reading them nonstop).


Again, not speaking as a parent, but just trying to provide the recentish-teenager perspective on some things, and mentioning my own interaction with technology, and what "worked" or didn't with me.

My main personal frustration with "Kids These Days" and technology is that they know their ways around tablets and smartphones, but the median computer skill level seems to be on the decline.  I work in IT at a service lab, and we can no longer count on 22-year-old new hires to always be "very tech-savvy."  It seems like the demographic with the highest median computer-savviness-level right now is ages 25-45.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 10:05:20 AM by ketchup »

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2017, 11:45:07 AM »
I enjoyed this article: http://project-based-homeschooling.com/camp-creek-blog/sliver-or-how-stop-fighting-about-screen-time

tl;dr:
"Many parents approach the subject of screen time — or other kid activities they don’t like, like reading comic books — by placing a strong limit on it. They say to their child, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are cramming all the stuff you love that we don’t like into this sliver.”
"Then the parents get to experience the ever-burgeoning frustration of having their child riveted on that sliver of time. The kids want to talk about it. They want to bargain for more of it. They want to argue about whether they got their fair share of it. Why? Because the sliver is where all the good stuff is.

What we need to do is flip it around."
"We say, “We want our lives to be lovely and full of all the good things, so we are going to allot a portion of our day to the stuff that really matters — the stuff we think is important.”"

*****************
Read it, she makes some good points. Then again, this coming from a mom of 4 boys, the oldest of whom is only 5, so definitely not judging here, those with older kids probably know a lot more about this than me.

So I tried her idea out yesterday. I got some super fun entertaining things that I approve of and that I know my kids would find interesting (blocks of lumber of different sizes). Instead of competing with the screens, like screens=bad, free play=good, I just left them strewn about.

They've been playing with those blocks constantly. They still watch tv and play with their tablet, but they independently choose to do this other activity. Not because I said they must, but because it is also good in its own right.

So (again, take with a grain of salt, I am not dealing with teens here), maybe the takeaway is that make your life fun enough that kids WANT to be a part of it?

You'll need to come back in a month or two and report on how easy this was to keep up! I like the idea, but my experience (I have 4, 9, and 12 year old boys) is that this sort of thing is fantastic for a day or two, but they quickly become bored, want something else "new" and/or it's really tiring having to constantly come up with stuff to attract them. I don't like the need to compete with electronics. Also, the older they get, the more they whine. We pull them out to hike and do other things as family all the time, but, good god, every so often we pitch the idea just because of how painful it is to interest them in anything other than the computer.

I notice the older my kids get, the less they use their toys, and the more fierce the competition. We have been homeschooling over multiple moves, and are finally putting the older two back in school this fall. I know keeping my 4 year old playing and creating away from screens will be easy. His brothers, though, I only expect that to get much harder.

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2017, 06:20:34 AM »
1. As a High School teacher I will almost never use technology in the classroom. The way text on screen changes reading habits, for example, is incredibly detrimental to successful and deep learning. Be incredibly wary of any school pushing technology - there is likely little debate inside the school about the value of technology in education (it's largely non-existent for a few reasons). Paper works a lot better for almost every task (research, coding and a few other niche skills excepted)

Kids generally don't like using their tech in the classroom either. Because you are taking their devices they use for "fun" and making them use it for "learning".
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2017, 06:22:49 AM »
Lots of good stuff on this thread. I'm still digesting, but the above stuck out to me. I have two boys 8 and 4. We limit screens a good bit. Always have. Despite that, my oldest has zero imagination and doesn't really play with toys. My youngest can get lost for HOURS playing on his own with all kinds of toys and things. I really think it just depends on the kid and their personality. I will admit that we did play with my oldest too much, so that may have contributed to it.

She's not talking about a couple of individual kids and their personalities.  This a trend she has observed across her classroom over a 10-year period.

Also not saying it's just the tech.  But it's an easy go to theory to point to, that makes logical sense.
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2017, 06:26:17 AM »
So (again, take with a grain of salt, I am not dealing with teens here), maybe the takeaway is that make your life fun enough that kids WANT to be a part of it?

This is my approach.

If the kid wants to use a device, I always say No and then come up with something that's also awesome, and she's over it in 10 seconds.
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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2017, 12:26:56 PM »
Lots of good stuff on this thread. I'm still digesting, but the above stuck out to me. I have two boys 8 and 4. We limit screens a good bit. Always have. Despite that, my oldest has zero imagination and doesn't really play with toys. My youngest can get lost for HOURS playing on his own with all kinds of toys and things. I really think it just depends on the kid and their personality. I will admit that we did play with my oldest too much, so that may have contributed to it.

She's not talking about a couple of individual kids and their personalities.  This a trend she has observed across her classroom over a 10-year period.

Also not saying it's just the tech.  But it's an easy go to theory to point to, that makes logical sense.

It also corresponds with the financial crash. Perhaps overwhelmed and stressed-out parents has something to do with it. And it also corresponds to a new post 9-11 world, where helicopter parenting has exploded.



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caracarn

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
1. As a High School teacher I will almost never use technology in the classroom. The way text on screen changes reading habits, for example, is incredibly detrimental to successful and deep learning. Be incredibly wary of any school pushing technology - there is likely little debate inside the school about the value of technology in education (it's largely non-existent for a few reasons). Paper works a lot better for almost every task (research, coding and a few other niche skills excepted)

Kids generally don't like using their tech in the classroom either. Because you are taking their devices they use for "fun" and making them use it for "learning".
Our school district requires they use tech in the classroom.  They are not using their own devices, they are school supplied tablets or laptops but they are used every day in each subject/classroom all day long.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2017, 12:16:05 PM »
1. As a High School teacher I will almost never use technology in the classroom. The way text on screen changes reading habits, for example, is incredibly detrimental to successful and deep learning. Be incredibly wary of any school pushing technology - there is likely little debate inside the school about the value of technology in education (it's largely non-existent for a few reasons). Paper works a lot better for almost every task (research, coding and a few other niche skills excepted)

Kids generally don't like using their tech in the classroom either. Because you are taking their devices they use for "fun" and making them use it for "learning".
Our school district requires they use tech in the classroom.  They are not using their own devices, they are school supplied tablets or laptops but they are used every day in each subject/classroom all day long.

Our local school district does the same thing with technology in the classroom (all "free" Google services) plus they fired all the school librarians and replaced them with a Google content search. There was an uproar from families about this, but they stuck with their plan so children in our school district will no longer have any guidance in determining the difference between good and bad sources of information.

Just further evidence that the people are no longer in control of anything and information is being controlled by massive corporations.

Hargrove

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Re: How smart phones are destroying a generation
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2017, 04:15:17 PM »
We hang out in communities that highly value: being together, getting into nature, etc. So, for us, those are the norm, and a device is just a tool to facilitate that or experience respite in relation to that.

Bingo.

If the device is a tool, you use a tool until you don't need it for the task anymore. Many parents don't know how to enforce its use as a tool, and kids quickly learn it can be a separate virtual reality, then aren't necessarily stopped from engaging with it.

Social media can be a weapon or a logbook of cat pictures, but it is a place of purely voluntary sharing - one's skill in determining what to share, and one's ability to share in various ways, can determine reputation battles, feelings of guilt or pride, feelings of fury and fear, and it may not be possible to opt out, as caracarn's family tragically learned, which some people find a terrifying new development because of scope. Literally any disagreement can become a political battle fueled by the impersonal nature of the internet, and literally any event can be turned into one seen by everyone you know.

I think the people saying this is just "old people overreacting" have missed the point I think Joon's post makes here: the only preventive for the dangers of mistaking the tool for the purposes it was intended to facilitate is an entire culture supportive of putting the thing down, and most of us don't have that yet.

But with lots of open discussion about it, we can certainly tilt back in that direction. Along those lines, I agree with most of the parents trying to at least make it so in their own homes.

Quote from: LonerMatt
Have people worried about old technology people. Yes. Have those people had a point? Almost always. Look at how automation is killing people's jobs - the luddites had a point, even if they were misguided. Look at how a 24/7 news cycle and sound-bite driven media strategies have become increasingly problematic. Critics of TV had a point.

Awesome. People who invented broadcast television talked about a new perfect era of shared information and enlightenment, as if humanity would have been perfect but didn't have mass communication options to get it sorted yet. How much sillier with the internet. Hopefully the experience of, say, almost ever going to a chatroom will cure future generations of this insanity. Cultural values that can't be reinforced (positively and/or negatively) don't tend to stick around, and once the conversation changes from the value of the culture to the value of the technology that spreads it, the change becomes much more pronounced for good and for bad.

Quote
Things progress, change is constant, there are genuinely problems with all media. Media changes us, even if we (falsely) believe we are in control. If you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you've got a smartphone everything looks like a quick-look, skim-read, captivating but shallow, gamified piece of shit.

That's hilarious.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 04:24:51 PM by Hargrove »