Help with going back to work

[MrFrugalChicago]

The wife and I had a kid 1 year ago. I am glad she got to stay at home with our daughter, but I also think its about time the wife goes back to work. She is refusing. We are at a financial impass.

How do you solve this?  It seems that we both need to be on the same page for either option, but I do not see either of us budging at the moment.

Wife took out loans to get a good college degree when we first got married (still owes 30k on it), so either I am working and paying back her student loans, or we both work. She would easily make 4x what a daycare would cost, so it isn't a situation where she would make $1500 and we would owe $1000 to a daycare. I bet she would start at 60-70k, and be at 100k within 4 years.

Financially her staying at home is destroying us.  I am trying to put my foot down and said that we need to make 1 of 2 changes. 

1) Spend far less money

2) She goes back to work

She has said NO and NO. She grew up poor, so is unwilling to live the thrift store life. But she also won't use her great brain to make a living.

We are in marriage counseling over this, but I was wondering if anyone in MMM land has dealt with this, and how you solved it.

[tthree]

Somethings got to give.  I think you should respect her wanting to stay home, and I think she should respect the financial restraints of doing so.

I am sure you have talked about this:
WHY does she want to stay at home?
WHAT does she want to spend money on?

[little_brown_dog]

Counseling is a good idea. Sounds like your wife needs to decide which is more important to her, staying home or being spendy. I am a SAHM so I completely understand the deep desire to be the caregiver for your child during the workday. However, I also manage the family financials and run a tight ship.

What expenses are crushing you? Anything you can do to fix the spending or is it her spending habits specifically?

[MrFrugalChicago]

So get got back on the YNAB wagon. Went from saving basically 0 to 2k a month (out of my say 12k income per month). So made good progress.

Right now the stalemate is we have a YNAB. We have set monthly amounts for everything. I still feel it's too high. She says it's bare bones. She wants total freedom within the budget categories.

Example of what blows my gasket today. A box showed up from Matilda Jane. Rich bratty girls clothes. I think the receipt said $250 for 5 or 7 items. Her logic will be

1) she had that much money in the clothes budget saves.

2) she is on this deathtrap called kidizen. She can resell the clothes for 75% of the value in 6 months.


However it just boils my blood. A kid can't see their clothes. Why does she need a $70 sweater? And if we get a stain in it then we can't resell it.

Part of my reason I want her to work is so she doesn't hang out with rixh stay at home moms. I hate that culture. They sit around and talk about how other people are trashy, and compare expensive gadgets.

Ugh.

[pbkmaine]

More information on The Gottman Institute:

https://www.gottman.com/

[MrFrugalChicago]

If you are taking home 12k/month then it is exaggerating a bit to say your wife not bring8ng home 60-70k is destroying you.

I doubt you will get much useful help here. You guys seem to be miles apart in terms of goals and values. And there is a lot of contempt in your tone, which is a huge warning sign. Read some if the Gottnan's stuff on marriage to complement your counselling. Good luck.

Well not being able to retire is huge to me. Working till 80 seems not good. When brought up, her response is "work is all you like to do anyway, so why quit".

You are right there is a ton of contempt. Trying to work through it. Not sure I can get help for that here.

For her was thinking more about "This is the deal my wife and I made for her to stay home. She agreed to spend no more than X per month".

[calimom]

While it's important for couples, especially new parents, to be on the same page financially and philosophically, you come across as a bit of a dick.

[MrFrugalChicago]

While it's important for couples, especially new parents, to be on the same page financially and philosophically, you come across as a bit of a dick.

Tis true.

[mathjak107]

So get got back on the YNAB wagon. Went from saving basically 0 to 2k a month (out of my say 12k income per month). So made good progress.

Right now the stalemate is we have a YNAB. We have set monthly amounts for everything. I still feel it's too high. She says it's bare bones. She wants total freedom within the budget categories.

Example of what blows my gasket today. A box showed up from Matilda Jane. Rich bratty girls clothes. I think the receipt said $250 for 5 or 7 items. Her logic will be

1) she had that much money in the clothes budget saves.

2) she is on this deathtrap called kidizen. She can resell the clothes for 75% of the value in 6 months.


However it just boils my blood. A kid can't see their clothes. Why does she need a $70 sweater? And if we get a stain in it then we can't resell it.

Part of my reason I want her to work is so she doesn't hang out with rixh stay at home moms. I hate that culture. They sit around and talk about how other people are trashy, and compare expensive gadgets.

Ugh.

as they say , happy wife , happy life .

the compromise may be the fact that savings has to go on hold for a bit .

many of us had visions of retiring quite young . but then a funny thing happened on the way to that early retirement . it was called a wife and kids .

my wife did not end up going back to work until the kids went to school .


that is the price you pay when you have a partner and introduce kids in to the picture and it is no longer about what just you want in life .

if you think stalling work a few years is costly , check out what a divorce and child support will run.

in fact take a picture of everything you own . now cut that picture in half   lol

[Choices]

Sometimes talking about the future is easier than talking about today. It can tone down some of the emotional battles and really open up the conversation.

What do you want life like to look like in 10 years? 5 years? What does she want? Hopefully you both see each other in your future plans. Does she want to still stay at home when the kid is in school? Does she want to be team mom and classroom helper? Does she want to homeschool? Or does she want to go back to work eventually?

Do you want to work part time, move to a new city, or move to a different house or neighborhood?

Sometimes you can play "Would you rather" too. Would you rather have a family vacation twice a year or a new car every other year?

If you can find common ground on ANYTHING, embrace it. Discuss what it will take to get there. Then it's baby steps back to the day to day details you're facing now.

[Suze456]

Don't underestimate the pressure it puts on a family if both parents work full time outside of the home. Especially when there is more than 1 child, if that's in the plan in the next couple of years. Kids picking up illnesses in childcare and then can't go to childcare, not getting out of work on time, getting home late from work to face into the second job, (chores, errands, cooking, laundry, cleaning, shopping, etc etc. )

[mathjak107]

i learned along time ago "the wife's way is always the best and the correct one "

my wife can tell me the earth is flat and i would go , you know i saw something about that on nova .   ha ha ha


the train to sex-vill never stops at " RIGHT "     lol

[Cranky]

Yes - and if both parents work, both parents need to modify their schedules for sick days, daycare pick up, days that daycare is closed...

Honestly, I think someone netting $144,000/year can afford not only to have a sahp but also should be able to retire before he's 80yo.

This seems more about control than finances...

[gaja]

Is the issue that she doesn't want to work, or that she thinks it is better for the kid to be at home than in daycare? I have no, zero, zilch respect for the first one, if she depends upon other people to support her (=mooching). But I can understand the second one, and think that point of view merits a real discussion based on facts and figures. The first discussion points should be:
-do we agree that it is best for the child to be at home instead of in daycare?
-at what age should he/she start in daycare/school?
-who is best suited to stay at home with the child?
-might it be better for the child if both parents stayed at home part time?

[little_brown_dog]

Did YOU have a change of heart that prompted this desire to reverse her SAHM status or spending? Before you get angry at her, you need to determine if you are trying to renegotiate a prior deal/arrangement you both agreed upon. If previously you had said it was fine for her to stay home, and now you want her to work, then that is YOU changing your mind. If previously you set a budget, but now you think it is too spendy and she is still sticking to that budget, that is YOU trying to renegotiate the spending. We see this sometimes on the forum - a partner finds FIRE and then all of a sudden wants their spouse to shut up and get on board with it, even if that means changing their previously agreed upon lifestyle. If that is you, that is not cool.

Renegotiating is tough. You have 2 parties who agreed, and now one party wants to change everything up and often requires the other party to make significant compromises. If you want to renegotiate your entire lifestyle, then it is you that must approach the discussion with the utmost respect and willigness to compromise. If my husband (who also supports me financially 100%) all of a sudden turned around and said "LBD, you have to start working fulltime, put the baby in daycare even though you hate the idea of leaving her, and help me achieve FIRE because that is what I have decided I want" I would feel extremely angry and completely betrayed. The emotions go both ways in these scenarios.

[mm1970]

if you think stalling work a few years is costly , check out what a divorce and child support will run.

in fact take a picture of everything you own . now cut that picture in half   lol

true

[mm1970]

Yes - and if both parents work, both parents need to modify their schedules for sick days, daycare pick up, days that daycare is closed...

Honestly, I think someone netting $144,000/year can afford not only to have a sahp but also should be able to retire before he's 80yo.

This seems more about control than finances...

This is a good point here, and Julie made an even better one...talking about what you want for the future...as a team.

"You only like to work anyway", well it seems like you have some work to do to convince her otherwise.

Two full time jobs is exhausting, esp at the age of your kid.  Honestly I wouldn't recommend she go back full time if she doesn't want to.  Part time was the sweet spot for me.  I'm no longer in the sweet spot.

[former player]

Please make sure that there are no more pregnancies until you've sorted this situation out, as I can't see this situation recovering from that.

You might get more sympathy here if you post some case study numbers, or at least indicated what debt you have apart from the student loans and what is going into debt repayment/retirement/other savings/living expenses on a monthly or annual basis.

Why did your wife have to take out loans for college while you were married?  Did you not then have the income to pay out of pocket?  Or were you not supporting her financially when you could have?

How do you feel about your job? You're getting a great income from it, but income is not everything.  Do you enjoy it?  How secure is it?   Are you on the track to burnout or do you have ambitions to change to something else?  Does your wife know how you feel about your job? 

Does your wife think that you want her to go back to work just for the money?  I get the impression you think she is clever and has a lot both to offer and to gain from working, but perhaps she doesn't see that from you and thinks that you think it is all about the money.  Or perhaps she thinks that your child is still too young and she will go back to work when she is older, but is setting up in opposition to what looks to her like an unreasonably hard line from you?

How do you feel about your daughter?  Love?  Resentment?  A bit of both?

How would your wife feel about agreeing an amount for savings and your personal mad money and her having complete autonomy with the rest of the expenses?  If she grew up poor and having to budget, having artificial limits for different items within an overall budget might be creating stress that would disappear with a single limit.  (I grew up poor, and one of the pleasures of no longer being poor is not having to count how much money I am spending - although I do spend significantly less than my income without even thinking about it).

It seems to me that you had certain expectations (a clever wife from a poor background who worked hard to get qualified and a good career) and that now things have changed (still clever, but not working and having very different friends and attitudes).  The thing is, underneath those changes she is still the same woman you first married, just one with a tiny baby to look after.  How does she see your lives being in a year, 5 years, 20 years?

There is probably still a compromise on money you can both live with; I certainly hope so.  Good luck.

[TabbyCat]

I think you need to try to get back on the same page emotionally, back to feeling like partners instead of opposing sides before you can work this out. Are you able to let the fight go for a few months to work on your connection with your wife instead for a while? It does sound like you have an income that can float this lifestyle for a little bit, and it also sounds like she is sticking to the pre-negotiated budget.

I looked up that kids clothes site and am on your side there though – those clothes are expensive and… strange. I'm a big fan of the baby gap/gap kids clearance rack on 40% off everything days - band new cute clothes for maybe $4-12 per item if you seek the best deals.

[ender]

How do you talk with her about this?

It sure doesn't come across as convincing here. "NO and NO" without explanation is normally not a good and compelling argument.

You need to talk with her about the why but first, understand her whys. Why do you think she wants those?

[urbanista]

She is angry and resentful. Do you know why?

I would check two things:

Do you help with the baby? Do you get up to her at night? Like , regularly? Help around the house? Have you been sharing domestic chores before the baby was born?

Are you going to share drop offs / pick ups 50% at least?

If you don't I can easily see her resentment. In that case it feels like you want her to work two jobs for very little money. Just so *you* can retire. This wouldn't work with me.

[MrFrugalChicago]

Did YOU have a change of heart that prompted this desire to reverse her SAHM status or spending? Before you get angry at her, you need to determine if you are trying to renegotiate a prior deal/arrangement you both agreed upon. If previously you had said it was fine for her to stay home, and now you want her to work, then that is YOU changing your mind. If previously you set a budget, but now you think it is too spendy and she is still sticking to that budget, that is YOU trying to renegotiate the spending. We see this sometimes on the forum - a partner finds FIRE and then all of a sudden wants their spouse to shut up and get on board with it, even if that means changing their previously agreed upon lifestyle. If that is you, that is not cool.

So tricky this. My ideal "in my head life" was always she would stay at home for a month or two, then back to work. Her ideal was always stay at home forever, as her dream is to do things for the family and not for a job. She has strong desire for the family, but not for making money.

To that though, we agreed on a YNAB budget. We have X to spend in each category. However we are getting emotional spending, and blew our budget bu at least $1000 if not $1500 last month.

We talked and talked and talked about this over the last few days. At least a big part of it is she is spending money to "hurt me". She actually sees spending money I don't agree with as a good way to get me back for being mad at me.

My current best idea is to 100% separate our finances, I am not sure I can support my savings draining every month due to hurt spending. But this way at least the damage is limited, I doubt she would spend money to "hurt me" if it came out of her checking account and not mine.

[MrFrugalChicago]

How do you talk with her about this?

It sure doesn't come across as convincing here. "NO and NO" without explanation is normally not a good and compelling argument.

You need to talk with her about the why but first, understand her whys. Why do you think she wants those?

Her whys to the best of my understanding are

1) Her family grew up as poor missionaries. Her mom got to stay at home full time with the family (as they lived off donations from churches, no need to work) - so she sees that as the role of a mother in the family. (Which of course my mom always worked so we both had the opposite situation modeled)

2) She is not confident in her abilities to work an "office job". Despite being good at what she does and having a fancy degree to back it up, she has importer syndrome. Which I get, after college it literally took years before I started to feel like I knew what was going on. But it takes time and patience to get there.

[MrFrugalChicago]

I think you need to try to get back on the same page emotionally, back to feeling like partners instead of opposing sides before you can work this out. Are you able to let the fight go for a few months to work on your connection with your wife instead for a while? It does sound like you have an income that can float this lifestyle for a little bit, and it also sounds like she is sticking to the pre-negotiated budget.

Agree that need to fix relationship before budget directly.

She did go over the budget by at least $1500 last month because she refuses to enter receipts into the budget until the last day of the month, then goes "oh crap we did bad". Any suggestion to enter them more often is met with hostility. This month I guess I am entering all of the receipts weekly.

I looked up that kids clothes site and am on your side there though – those clothes are expensive and… strange. I'm a big fan of the baby gap/gap kids clearance rack on 40% off everything days - band new cute clothes for maybe $4-12 per item if you seek the best deals.

Yah it's a really interesting viral marketing thing. When a new set comes out it often sells out on launch day, so you need to line up and race others to hurry up and buy your $60 dresses before they sell out. Fantastic model as a business, but not one I really want to support.

[MrFrugalChicago]

Please make sure that there are no more pregnancies until you've sorted this situation out, as I can't see this situation recovering from that.

No worries there

You might get more sympathy here if you post some case study numbers, or at least indicated what debt you have apart from the student loans and what is going into debt repayment/retirement/other savings/living expenses on a monthly or annual basis.

Not sure this matters at this point, as even if I know what to cut, we won't agree.

Why did your wife have to take out loans for college while you were married?  Did you not then have the income to pay out of pocket?  Or were you not supporting her financially when you could have?

Half her college she worked for the school and got free tuition. So she paid $0 for school and I paid for everything else. Then her school got rid of the free tuition position.. but she was halfway done so may as well finish. The other half of her school it was a fairly high price (~6k per semester) that we had no way to pay out of pocket. I have 0 problems in general with student debt if its for a good reason. I took 30k in student debt, but now make over 150k, so it worked out great.

How do you feel about your job? You're getting a great income from it, but income is not everything.  Do you enjoy it?  How secure is it?   Are you on the track to burnout or do you have ambitions to change to something else?  Does your wife know how you feel about your job? 

I have my main job. Hate it, want to quit. But with my exact working situation, I cannot quit and make the same money.  If my wife worked I could much more likely find a job I liked a bit more.

Working a bit on my spare time on a startup which is my dream job, but that is longer down the road before it gets to a point where it can pay me serious money.. maybe a topic for another time though.

Does your wife think that you want her to go back to work just for the money?  I get the impression you think she is clever and has a lot both to offer and to gain from working, but perhaps she doesn't see that from you and thinks that you think it is all about the money.  Or perhaps she thinks that your child is still too young and she will go back to work when she is older, but is setting up in opposition to what looks to her like an unreasonably hard line from you?

Not totally sure. If the plan is to go back to work in 4-5 years, then that is fine - IF we are frugal in the meantime. If we are living the spend spend spend life, then I don't think we can wait that long.

How do you feel about your daughter?  Love?  Resentment?  A bit of both?

Only love. She is great. These problems are here kid or no kid.

How would your wife feel about agreeing an amount for savings and your personal mad money and her having complete autonomy with the rest of the expenses?  If she grew up poor and having to budget, having artificial limits for different items within an overall budget might be creating stress that would disappear with a single limit.  (I grew up poor, and one of the pleasures of no longer being poor is not having to count how much money I am spending - although I do spend significantly less than my income without even thinking about it).

So earlier this year we tried single limit. We took out all the stuff that wasn't going to change (Mortgage, car insurance, etc), and then we had "here X dollars, it has to pay everything else". It did not really work at all. But partially because there was not a hard stop. Perhaps if we used cash then literally when it's out it's out. Not a bad idea.

It seems to me that you had certain expectations (a clever wife from a poor background who worked hard to get qualified and a good career) and that now things have changed (still clever, but not working and having very different friends and attitudes).  The thing is, underneath those changes she is still the same woman you first married, just one with a tiny baby to look after.  How does she see your lives being in a year, 5 years, 20 years?

There is probably still a compromise on money you can both live with; I certainly hope so.  Good luck.

Good advice thanks!

[mxt0133]

With regards to going over the budget.  Why don't you do monthly deposits into a checking account for your monthly expenses.  That way you know exactly how much you have left after every transaction.  If it goes to zero then you know if you went past the budget or not.  If at the first week of the month you are already low, you know you can't buy $70 sweaters because you have to eat. 

I would time the monthly deposit to be closer to your larger bills so that when the money is deposited the rent, electricity, ect are paid first.  That way you avoid constantly being short at the end of the month.

[ender]

We talked and talked and talked about this over the last few days. At least a big part of it is she is spending money to "hurt me". She actually sees spending money I don't agree with as a good way to get me back for being mad at me.

For what it's worth you don't exactly come across as understanding, loving, and supportive of her as a person. Her being immature in spending to "hurt you" probably is a reaction to her feeling hurt/neglected/looked down upon in some way.

The fact that she knows spending money you don't agree with is the easiest/most effective way to hurt you suggests... perhaps you idolize or over-value money in your relationship. Does she feel more important than money to you?

[Choices]

My current best idea is to 100% separate our finances, I am not sure I can support my savings draining every month due to hurt spending. But this way at least the damage is limited, I doubt she would spend money to "hurt me" if it came out of her checking account and not mine.

This gets even more tricky. When initiated by the breadwinner, it comes across as very controlling. Plus, as long as you're married, you're likely to be on the hook for any credit cards she opens or other debt she accrues if she feels she doesn't have enough from the allowance you would give her.

She isn't a child. You can't just dictate how things go. It sounds like you've had some productive heart-to-heart conversations lately--good for you! Keep working on communication and seeing things from each other's point of view. If you aren't able to understand each other and reach an agreement, then the problems will continue. It will take time to work through it all. Counseling might help.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

We talked and talked and talked about this over the last few days. At least a big part of it is she is spending money to "hurt me". She actually sees spending money I don't agree with as a good way to get me back for being mad at me.

For what it's worth you don't exactly come across as understanding, loving, and supportive of her as a person. Her being immature in spending to "hurt you" probably is a reaction to her feeling hurt/neglected/looked down upon in some way.

The fact that she knows spending money you don't agree with is the easiest/most effective way to hurt you suggests... perhaps you idolize or over-value money in your relationship. Does she feel more important than money to you?

+1.  As a guy who has dealt/is still dealing with some similar marital issues with a SAHM who also grew up in a low-income family, I think you are more likely to find the solution to your problems while looking in the mirror than fretting over the minutia of your YNAB setup or trying to change your wife's behavior. 

What have you done recently to make your wife feel like you value her?  Hint: telling her you value her doesn't count and neither does spending money on her, without more.  You don't even need to spend any money to make this happen.  When is the last time you did something just for her? 

You make a good income, so I'm guessing you also have side perks through your job that she doesn't enjoy.  Do you have cocktails or lunches out or expense paid travel?  If so, do you make a point to make some of those perks available to your wife as well (I mean by paying for them yourself, not necessarily bringing her along to the office cocktail party)?  It took me a while to realize that it was easy for me to abstain from restaurants when I get access to catered office events periodically-- I don't have a ton of desire to do more.  But my SAH wife doesn't get those and its unfair of me to expect her to never go to a restaurant.

The "growing up poor" thing is difficult and surely affects her perception of the world.  Sure she knows how to make do with less but making do with less out of necessity is far different than choosing to make do with less when it is possible to spend more.  If she's anything like my wife, she is probably sensitive to appearances because she was the butt of jokes growing up and/or was made to feel like a lesser person because of the things she didn't have.  My wife has no desire to have fancy clothes or handbags, but it manifests for her in her desire for a newer car and travel.  I'm guessing your wife has trouble with the idea of having hundreds of thousands of dollars invested while continuing to choose to live a life that outwardly appears to be similar to the poor life she wanted to leave behind.  I'm guessing your wife sees frugality as a form of deprivation or self-denial rather than an act of self love and buying freedom.

You need to examine yourself and your own motivations first.  Then you need to figure out what her short term emotional needs are and figure out a way to meet them, even if it means spending more than you would like to spend.  Then work on selling her on the future you envision.  Show her what you envision for your future together (assuming you envision a future together).  If you can agree on a shared vision for the future, then you can work backwards to figure out what you need to be doing today to reach that vision of the future.  If she sees and believes in the vision and understands how you backed into your determination of what you need to do today to make it happen, then there will be far fewer day-to-day issues with money because she will understand that the limits are necessary to achieve HER goal-- not just an arbitrary limit imposed by her cheap and controlling husband. 

[MrFrugalChicago]

+1.  As a guy who has dealt/is still dealing with some similar marital issues with a SAHM who also grew up in a low-income family, I think you are more likely to find the solution to your problems while looking in the mirror than fretting over the minutia of your YNAB setup or trying to change your wife's behavior. 

Sure.

What have you done recently to make your wife feel like you value her?  Hint: telling her you value her doesn't count and neither does spending money on her, without more.  You don't even need to spend any money to make this happen.  When is the last time you did something just for her? 

This is an active area of work.

You make a good income, so I'm guessing you also have side perks through your job that she doesn't enjoy.  Do you have cocktails or lunches out or expense paid travel?  If so, do you make a point to make some of those perks available to your wife as well (I mean by paying for them yourself, not necessarily bringing her along to the office cocktail party)?  It took me a while to realize that it was easy for me to abstain from restaurants when I get access to catered office events periodically-- I don't have a ton of desire to do more.  But my SAH wife doesn't get those and its unfair of me to expect her to never go to a restaurant.

No in fact it is the opposite. I work from home, so I get nothing but what is in the pantry. She leaves the house and goes on Lunch dates and other such events. She has much much more "perks" than I do.

The "growing up poor" thing is difficult and surely affects her perception of the world.  Sure she knows how to make do with less but making do with less out of necessity is far different than choosing to make do with less when it is possible to spend more.  If she's anything like my wife, she is probably sensitive to appearances because she was the butt of jokes growing up and/or was made to feel like a lesser person because of the things she didn't have.  My wife has no desire to have fancy clothes or handbags, but it manifests for her in her desire for a newer car and travel.  I'm guessing your wife has trouble with the idea of having hundreds of thousands of dollars invested while continuing to choose to live a life that outwardly appears to be similar to the poor life she wanted to leave behind.  I'm guessing your wife sees frugality as a form of deprivation or self-denial rather than an act of self love and buying freedom.

Spot on, and something I would like to help her understand. Not for my well being, but for OUR well being. If I can't work in 20 years, will we be glad we had expensive clothes, or wish we had more in the bank?

You need to examine yourself and your own motivations first.  Then you need to figure out what her short term emotional needs are and figure out a way to meet them, even if it means spending more than you would like to spend.  Then work on selling her on the future you envision.  Show her what you envision for your future together (assuming you envision a future together).  If you can agree on a shared vision for the future, then you can work backwards to figure out what you need to be doing today to reach that vision of the future.  If she sees and believes in the vision and understands how you backed into your determination of what you need to do today to make it happen, then there will be far fewer day-to-day issues with money because she will understand that the limits are necessary to achieve HER goal-- not just an arbitrary limit imposed by her cheap and controlling husband.

All very true and good thoughts.

[MrFrugalChicago]

With regards to going over the budget.  Why don't you do monthly deposits into a checking account for your monthly expenses.  That way you know exactly how much you have left after every transaction.  If it goes to zero then you know if you went past the budget or not.  If at the first week of the month you are already low, you know you can't buy $70 sweaters because you have to eat. 

I would time the monthly deposit to be closer to your larger bills so that when the money is deposited the rent, electricity, ect are paid first.  That way you avoid constantly being short at the end of the month.

So this is a concrete example on how to force a spending cap. But quite a few other responses say that it is not kosher to treat the wife like a child and impose it on her. So I guess it is a matter of which way that all plays out...

[mxt0133]

So this is a concrete example on how to force a spending cap. But quite a few other responses say that it is not kosher to treat the wife like a child and impose it on her. So I guess it is a matter of which way that all plays out...

I'm not advocating that you implement this without her input, because then you would be treating her like a child.  Instead, work together on what that amount is and see if you can more or less make it last for a month.  Don't worry about meeting the exact figure or not in the short term.  If you have to deposit a grand or two before the month ends so be it.  It will be a slow process but hopefully it trends in the right direction.  Eventually both of you will start to scrutinize your expenditures and see if it really adds value to your lives and determine if the expenditure is worth it or not.

This assumes that both of your have your long term goals in alignment, which doesn't seem like the case at the moment.  Tell her you are concerned as the sole breadwinner what will happen to your lifestyle if you are not able to generate income anymore.  Hopefully she will open up and tell you her goals and concerns.

I have already gone down this road with my wife and to be honest our goals still don't completely align.  But I did stop scolding my spouse about going over the budget.  Right now I make sure that a set amount goes into savings and what ever is left is for spending.  If that runs out then we have a conversation about where the money went and if it is worth it to drain our savings.

For example, my wife wanted to have a birthday part, we talked about it.  Trust me it took a lot of restraint not to go ape shit when she was listing out the possible expenses.  After we totaled everything up, I asked her if it was worth it to work x days for her to have a party.  It's her money too and she is free to spend it as she wants but it's less money for other things like kids activities, vacation, ect.  In the end the conversation stopped there.  A few months after she blames me for her not having a party, but I reminded her that it's her money too and she can spend it as she wants.  Granted I would have probably quit my job and just hung out with the kids, if she was going to spend our money that way.  I might as well be poor now and get to see my kids more than have to work, miss spending time with my kids and be poor anyway.

[MrFrugalChicago]

This assumes that both of your have your long term goals in alignment, which doesn't seem like the case at the moment.  Tell her you are concerned as the sole breadwinner what will happen to your lifestyle if you are not able to generate income anymore.  Hopefully she will open up and tell you her goals and concerns.

I have already gone down this road with my wife and to be honest our goals still don't completely align.  But I did stop scolding my spouse about going over the budget.  Right now I make sure that a set amount goes into savings and what ever is left is for spending.  If that runs out then we have a conversation about where the money went and if it is worth it to drain our savings.

For example, my wife wanted to have a birthday part, we talked about it.  Trust me it took a lot of restraint not to go ape shit when she was listing out the possible expenses.  After we totaled everything up, I asked her if it was worth it to work x days for her to have a party.  It's her money too and she is free to spend it as she wants but it's less money for other things like kids activities, vacation, ect.  In the end the conversation stopped there.  A few months after she blames me for her not having a party, but I reminded her that it's her money too and she can spend it as she wants.  Granted I would have probably quit my job and just hung out with the kids, if she was going to spend our money that way.  I might as well be poor now and get to see my kids more than have to work, miss spending time with my kids and be poor anyway.

Okay so you seem in a similar category to me. Maybe not identical but what you said there resonates with me.  I want to say "Is this new purse worth working 6 hours for?"  But she doesn't work, so its ME working 6 hours to buy the purse. So yes - it is worth it to her. Hence why I think her working would help the cause a lot.

I do not want to hoard money for my own benefit. I just want to be able to, you know, actually be able to retire at 70. Yes my dream is retire at 45, but I will work to 70 if that is what it takes for martial harmony. But literally we cannot make this connection. We have $12k coming in every month, why not spend it?  We can talk about it, agree on terms... but then why NOT spend the money we just made?

We are also having a birthday party fight. We agreed no party. Then it turned into a small party. She pushed for all kinds of fancy balloons, I blew up - we settled on $7 of favors from the dollar store. Then she came back and said she needs more plastic cups so all of the kids can have matching cups. So cue blow up #2, why should I have to spend money so some < 5 year olds have matching cups?????  I understand that is how an idealized party looks on pinterest, but it doesn't actually matter. No one goes home from a party saying "man I liked the party but the cups didn't match".

Spent about 30 minutes discussing the cups. The end result of all of this is "Well our house is so expensive, it makes me feel like we have to live like rich folk. If we had bought a crappy smaller house I would feel better living the cheap life".

My mortgage is $800 on $12k income, so I don't think I am in the rich house category. I am in a much nicer house than either of us grew up in, but not that fancy. We could go down to maybe $400-$500 mortgage if we bought a real fixer upper, but no one has time to do that. Maybe $600 if we bought a similar quality but just smaller house.  And at this point the cost to trade down houses (sell current + buy new + moving fees) would basically eat up all savings we would get from the $200 a month cheaper house.

How do we get on the same page about saving money = good?

My wife is awesome in every other way. Keeps me in line, great friend, great mom, great everything. She just literally cannot understand in her core if you have $10, why not spend it. Do we need to read some financial books together?  Make a "every $1 we save is $1 in the vacation fund" game?    Open to anything but so lost..

I say "I would like to be frugal now so I can do what I want in 10 years". She stares at me blankly. "What would you do if you aren't working?". Sigh. :(

[chasingthegoodlife]

You mention that you have a full time job and are working on a start up of your own also. As some other posters have mentioned, I think you may be seriously underestimating the impact on your own life if you wife returns to full time work. 

If you are both working full time, do you expect to share family duties equally, regardless of who is making the higher salary?

After you have both worked until 5pm or so (be prepared your wife's new role might pressure unpaid overtime as so many do), picked up your daughter, made dinner, done laundry, errands and housework and actually interacted with your daughter for a hour or two, you may find you are both more stressed, tired and with much less time for personal projects than currently.

Of my social circle, there are very few mothers that have gone back to work full time while their children were very young. Those that did were motivated by fantastic career opportunities they couldn't pass up, rather that a need for more cash, and it has been a hard slog for both parents. Most work a few days a week because they enjoy the stimulation.
We are mostly low middle income families, whereas you make more alone than many dual income households I know.

Some things to think about:
How many hours a week would your wife need to work for you to be 'satisfied'?
What will you give up to allow for the increase in your parental responsibilities?
Are you willing to reduce your own work hours?

I hope you can come to an arrangement that works for you both.

[MrFrugalChicago]

You mention that you have a full time job and are working on a start up of your own also. As some other posters have mentioned, I think you may be seriously underestimating the impact on your own life if you wife returns to full time work. 

I am not sure I underestimate it. I know things will be different. I am fine with doing more in exchange for having more financial stability.

If you are both working full time, do you expect to share family duties equally, regardless of who is making the higher salary?

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

After you have both worked until 5pm or so (be prepared your wife's new role might pressure unpaid overtime as so many do), picked up your daughter, made dinner, done laundry, errands and housework and actually interacted with your daughter for a hour or two, you may find you are both more stressed, tired and with much less time for personal projects than currently.

Yes

Of my social circle, there are very few mothers that have gone back to work full time while their children were very young. Those that did were motivated by fantastic career opportunities they couldn't pass up, rather that a need for more cash, and it has been a hard slog for both parents. Most work a few days a week because they enjoy the stimulation.
We are mostly low middle income families, whereas you make more alone than many dual income households I know.

Agree, but most days already feel like a slog.

Some things to think about:
How many hours a week would your wife need to work for you to be 'satisfied'?

Who knows, enough for her to value the money we have and not have as much freetime to shop.

What will you give up to allow for the increase in your parental responsibilities?

Are you willing to reduce your own work hours?

These go together. Sure I can find a work balance that "works" for all.

[MrFrugalChicago]

I strongly recommend you post a case study of your monthly spending.  There is a certain level of castastrophizing/exaggerating in your posts --6k a semester for school being considered expensive?  thinking about moving down to a fixer upper to reduce your mortgage from $800/month down to $400 or $500/month?  and insisting that spending 10%ish of your monthly net on frivolous stuff is going to force you to work until age 70?  Yes, it does seem that your wife has an issue with spending that goes deep into her psychology and may be difficult to change.  But it also seems that YOU may have some pretty major psychological hangups around money that could be moved in a healthier direction with some work.

6k a semester is expensive when your (total income - total expenses) for a month leaves you with $300 left. No way to pay that in real time. Hence loans to finish.

Frivolous stuff is well past 10%.

You can see a 2 month ago panic case study here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/need-a-reboot/msg1100698/

One big question:  Are you currently maxing out all available retirement savings options, and putting money aside for your daughter's college as well? 

Nowhere close.

2 months ago was 0 going into any retirement. Post that case study linked above, increased to 10k / yr Roth, 10k / yr 401k. So 20k a year going towards retirement. I am OK with that for now.  But for sure I would like more down the road.

Current problem is nothing going in regular savings. I hide that 20k a year, but my savings account is stagnant.

As for kids college fund, I have no plans to create a college fund. I plan to teach her to program from a young age. Knowing good things is more important to making money in life than a piece of paper. If she wants college she can pay for her own as I did mine.

Best initial approach, given your partners wish to spend money she sees available, is simply to pay yourself first in these areas and make that money UNavailable ASAP.  Pay yourself first.  If you both agree that additional investment is in order so that you can retire early, then put that money away, too.  Done.  It isn't in the checking account so there won't be anything to fight over. 

I think this is on the right track. She doesn't actually care what is in the checking account so this exact route may not work.. but perhaps physical envelops of cash.

Seriously, you work at home, you have no commute/fancy wardrobe costs, your mortgage is $800/month -- it sounds like your base expenses are pretty low.  Yes, you guys need to work on getting on the same page about financial goals and spending habits, but unless you have some huge unexplained expenses you aren't telling us about with your income level even $1-2k/month in frivolous spending STILL leaves you with a healthy amount to invest.  Put it all in a case study and let us have a go.  We may find ways you can make changes without attacking her.

I do really good at the base. But I do not control the day to day, hence the crazy stuff happens.

[mxt0133]

OP I just read your case study and it seems like you have only started your MMM journey, I don't know what else to call it really, a few months ago.  I'll repeat that a, few months ago.

Repeat after me.  Suffering = Reality - Expectations

It seems like you and your wife have lived a fancypants lifestyle longer than you have lived frugal ones.  It also seems like you are ahead of your wife on this and expect her to be at your level at the drop of a hat.  You need to give it more time to change habits that took years to develop.

I know exactly where you are.  I was there there about four years ago.  I was never spendy compared to my peers and family.  However, I still spent a lot of money compared to everyone around here.  After our first child, I jumped on the FIRE wagon and found ERE, then MMM.  I too started charting a new course for our finance and spending without giving my wife a chance to catch up.  I wanted to cut our food expenses, shopping, vacation, gift giving and get above a 50% savings rate overnight. 

In reality to took me a year or two to cut my own expenses, going out to eat, coffee, commuting, shopping, gifts, cell phone, ect.  I tried to force my wife to make similar changes but all it did was create a rift between us.  She was dealing with two kids at the time and adjusting to being a SAHP.  Until I started cooking did we finally get our food expenditures down.  We also stopped wasting food, we still do but not nearly as much, basically I would cook but we would still go out and end up throwing a lot of leftovers out.

Eventually, she started cooking more by herself, started shopping at consignment stores, picked free or lower cost activities for the kids, let me switch her on a prepaid phone plan(Iphone on ATT $140/month down to $25/month for both of us), and significantly dropped spending on gifts to family and friends.  She still buys more stuff that I would care for, go on more vacations than I want, and buys junk food(that I don't eat).  So everything is not exactly where I would like them to be.  But we went from 20% savings rate to about 45% while adding two kids with only a 15% increase in income.

Give her some time, show by example vs constantly blowing up on $10 party cups.  It's not worth it.  Focus on the war and let go of some battles.  It seems like the both of you have fat to trim.  Treat it as a marathon and not a sprint.  What's the point of getting to finish line and reaching FIRE if you end up alone with no one to share it with?

[yuka]

People keep asking dumb questions: like really, really dumb questions, in which they ask for a bunch of numbers. THIS IS NOT A NUMBERS PROBLEM! Numbers help if you're trying to construct a proof. Do you think your wife will come to agree with you if you run the numbers and prove that your method is guaranteed to have the fewest person-years of required employment for your family?

Setting spending limits and hard ceilings unilaterally is what you do if you're a nation-state promising aid to a country you don't like very much. Ditto on aggressively spending in ways that the other party considers frivolous

You two need to communicate. Not just announce your thoughts and frustrations. Each of you should be able to explain, in your own words, what the other person wants and why they're frustrated. I could speculate on a few points. She may think that you foresee not doing chores around the house. More likely (from what I've read,) she may see you as already getting to be at home, while she was having to go somewhere. She may wonder why she should also be working when she's not making as much money as you. She may not understand that you're frustrated at being away from your family and are wanting to have an end date for that. She may think that you're absorbed in work, and that you think everyone else ought to be too.

But the one thing she's not thinking is, "this sweater is bringing our family value to a greater extent than it's hurting us by delaying retirement." That's not the battle you're fighting. She also has an imagined battlefield somewhere distant from what you're thinking.

You two need to sit down, a lot, and figure these things out. If you would benefit from having someone guide that conversation, it seems that it's within your means to do so. I would encourage that, unless you feel that a leisurely pace is more helpful than professional guidance. And please, let your guard down. You're already being blindsided by someone to whom you're irrevocably tied. You owe your past frustrations nothing, and you owe it to yourselves to push past those things. She may not respond immediately. She may buy stupid sweaters for months past the point where you've let your guard down. I'm suggesting you do it anyway, because there's so much more to be gained than there is to lose in that course of action. Also, I recommend you try to think about times when she's been happy with you, and recreate those ways of showing affection. Once again, there's only upward potential in that course of action.

[JRA64]

She's asked you what you would do if you're not working, and from what I've read, you are not able to answer that question. Can you paint that picture? More time with her and your daughter, time to travel, or what???? You are asking her to change what she's doing now for something (it sounds like) you can't articulate and that she can't imagine.

[urbanista]

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

Yeah, that's what DH says. He can't cook but does the dishes. He conveniently forgets that "doing dishes" takes 5 minutes while cooking (and planning the meals + grocery shopping) takes more like 40 minutes.

Agree, but most days already feel like a slog.

Feels like a slog to you. Your wife has a good life now. You want to change her life for worse (in her eyes) without giving her anything in return. Because trust me, life of a working mother who has got a 1 year and enjoys staying home with her, is just crap.

Really, just think about it. At the moment she is leaving her dream. She has always wanted to be a SAHM. She has a healthy baby and regular catch ups with friends. Gets to do some shopping and baby lessons. Gifts to the family. And you want her to give all that up so only you can benefit ??? (at least in her eyes)

[ender]

People keep asking dumb questions: like really, really dumb questions, in which they ask for a bunch of numbers. THIS IS NOT A NUMBERS PROBLEM! Numbers help if you're trying to construct a proof. Do you think your wife will come to agree with you if you run the numbers and prove that your method is guaranteed to have the fewest person-years of required employment for your family?

I think the reason people are talking about the numbers is that the OP is not really doing a good job in presenting how he perceives the whole situation.

From looking at the case study, the majority of their $12k income is (was?) spent on mutual things - OP is focusing here on the things his wife spends, seemingly without looking at his spending. The OP has over $6k in bike expenses over the last few years, for example. If my spouse spends that much on themselves just on bikes, you better believe I'm going to have a hard time when they decide that I am spending too much on relatively small things.

OP, you might try a more constructive/goal approach with your wife. Talk about something both of you can agree on - maybe you both want to knock out the student loans?

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

Would your wife agree with this? Would she say that you help out around the house?

This is an area where perception can be dramatically different in a couple. Especially since your wife presumably is doing the majority of the work/time involved with your child.

[little_brown_dog]

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

Yeah, that's what DH says. He can't cook but does the dishes. He conveniently forgets that "doing dishes" takes 5 minutes while cooking (and planning the meals + grocery shopping) takes more like 40 minutes.

Hehe omg my husband is exactly like this. I love him dearly and he works his butt off at his job and in his grad program, but for him, doing 5 minutes of dishes a few nights per week qualifies as significantly helping around the house. I don’t mind really, but the disconnect between his understanding and reality is striking. I think maybe because I am a SAHM, and I do all the major heavy lifting during the day while he works, he thinks a 5-10 min investment constitutes a significant portion of the domestic labor in a given day.

[Fishindude]

The benefits of a stay at home mom to raise your kids is huge.  She wants to do it, and it would be best to figure out a way to make it work.
Why don't you just take care of the finances and give her an allowance for spending money that you can both agree on.   Has to be some compromise on her part too.  With no second income, she can't continue to spend like when there were two incomes.  Sounds like this is your biggest challenge.

It worked great for us with wife staying at home.  No daycare or daycare expenses and sick kids due to daycare, she took care of the house and household chores and we had home cooked meals most nights.   If she is using the stay at home mom thing to be part of the "rich mommies club", run around and play all the time with her friends, eat out, shop, spend $$, watch TV, internet shop, etc. instead of taking care of business around the home, that could be a problem.  Chicago can be an expensive place to live.

[AlwaysLearningToSave]

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

Yeah, that's what DH says. He can't cook but does the dishes. He conveniently forgets that "doing dishes" takes 5 minutes while cooking (and planning the meals + grocery shopping) takes more like 40 minutes.

Hehe omg my husband is exactly like this. I love him dearly and he works his butt off at his job and in his grad program, but for him, doing 5 minutes of dishes a few nights per week qualifies as significantly helping around the house. I don’t mind really, but the disconnect between his understanding and reality is striking. I think maybe because I am a SAHM, and I do all the major heavy lifting during the day while he works, he thinks a 5-10 min investment constitutes a significant portion of the domestic labor in a given day.

One of the best pieces of insight we received when my wife was expecting came from another younger couple who were parents of five young children at the time and unusually honest and forthright about the difficulties and demands of parenting.  It was:  "You will both feel like you are the one doing all the work."  Their point was to strive to keep the other's perspective in mind and try to give each other grace and help each other out because fretting too much over ensuring equal division of labor will likely lead to hard feelings and be counterproductive.

Perhaps your comments were just attempts to add a little levity to the discussion and challenge OP to consider his wife's perspective (which I agree is necessary, as indicated by my earlier post), so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting these posts.  But I have a problem with the knee-jerk "husband doesn't carry his weight" line that so often gets thrown around, accepted without question, and laughed about both in my real life and on this forum.  If one parent is a SAHP and the other works outside the house, it is fair to expect that the SAHP does the vast majority of the domestic work.  This has nothing to do with the genders of the SAHP and the working parent-- it is merely a function of each parent's availability to do domestic work. 

I have no doubt that you are correct that your husband does a small fraction of the domestic work.  But that doesn't mean he isn't carrying his weight.  If you expand your perspective and consider that working outside the home for income is also a part of the family's responsibilities, then the fact your husband takes on that burden himself and also does a small portion of domestic work means that the division of labor is far closer to even than you let on, to say nothing of whatever domestic tasks he handles entirely himself.  It is probably not a perfectly even split but it doesn't need to be and probably never will be. 

I guess my point is that the disconnect is not between your husband's perspective and reality.  The disconnect is between your husband's perspective and your perspective.  You have no greater claim to "reality" than he does.  Perhaps your perspective is closer to a purely objective reality, but I'd be willing to bet its not as close as you think.  Remember: you both will feel like you are the one doing all the work.  Give each other the benefit of the doubt.

[little_brown_dog]

Sure. I do pretty good around the house. I can't cook for crap but I do 94% of dishes for example.

Yeah, that's what DH says. He can't cook but does the dishes. He conveniently forgets that "doing dishes" takes 5 minutes while cooking (and planning the meals + grocery shopping) takes more like 40 minutes.

Hehe omg my husband is exactly like this. I love him dearly and he works his butt off at his job and in his grad program, but for him, doing 5 minutes of dishes a few nights per week qualifies as significantly helping around the house. I don’t mind really, but the disconnect between his understanding and reality is striking. I think maybe because I am a SAHM, and I do all the major heavy lifting during the day while he works, he thinks a 5-10 min investment constitutes a significant portion of the domestic labor in a given day.

One of the best pieces of insight we received when my wife was expecting came from another younger couple who were parents of five young children at the time and unusually honest and forthright about the difficulties and demands of parenting.  It was:  "You will both feel like you are the one doing all the work."  Their point was to strive to keep the other's perspective in mind and try to give each other grace and help each other out because fretting too much over ensuring equal division of labor will likely lead to hard feelings and be counterproductive.

Perhaps your comments were just attempts to add a little levity to the discussion and challenge OP to consider his wife's perspective (which I agree is necessary, as indicated by my earlier post), so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting these posts.  But I have a problem with the knee-jerk "husband doesn't carry his weight" line that so often gets thrown around, accepted without question, and laughed about both in my real life and on this forum.  If one parent is a SAHP and the other works outside the house, it is fair to expect that the SAHP does the vast majority of the domestic work.  This has nothing to do with the genders of the SAHP and the working parent-- it is merely a function of each parent's availability to do domestic work. 

I have no doubt that you are correct that your husband does a small fraction of the domestic work.  But that doesn't mean he isn't carrying his weight.  If you expand your perspective and consider that working outside the home for income is also a part of the family's responsibilities, then the fact your husband takes on that burden himself and also does a small portion of domestic work means that the division of labor is far closer to even than you let on, to say nothing of whatever domestic tasks he handles entirely himself.  It is probably not a perfectly even split but it doesn't need to be and probably never will be. 

I guess my point is that the disconnect is not between your husband's perspective and reality.  The disconnect is between your husband's perspective and your perspective.  You have no greater claim to "reality" than he does.  Perhaps your perspective is closer to a purely objective reality, but I'd be willing to bet its not as close as you think.  Remember: you both will feel like you are the one doing all the work.  Give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Yes it was just to introduce levity :)

As I mentioned, my husband is an extremely hard worker, but because of our designated (and desired) breakdown in labor distribution (he makes the vast majority of the income, I do the vast majority of domestic tasks), he naturally has a lighter workload on the home front. There simply isn’t as much work to be done by the time he gets home at night because I have already done it during the day. As a result, when he does contribute, the contribution is small because usually only very small tasks are left over/required at the end of the day. So it’s not so much an issue of perspective or him being lazy, it’s actually that his lived reality of domestic duties really is as small as helping with the dishes at night. He never does laundry, cleaning, dog walking, etc because that is my job and I do those tasks.
Sometimes this can trip him up though, when say I go away for a day or two and he seems bewildered that the laundry isn’t done, the house looks like a bomb went off, and the kitchen sink is full of dishes. Or when he comes home on a particularly busy or rough day and asks why the house is so messy if I was home all day. Having me stay at home sort of shields him from fully comprehending – the sheer magnitude of domestic tasks can sometimes be hidden from him because he is simply not around to witness them. So at first it would seem like a comment about messiness is a criticism of me. But in reality, it's just a clueless comment from someone who truly lacks an accurate point of reference.

I am perfectly fine with this as I believe we are both working full time during the workday, and would not want him doing a full 50% of home tasks too (because then he would be doing more than a full day’s worth of work). My favorite part of having a SAHP is that both of us have an easier labor load. My husband's #1 job every night after work is to play with our baby and spend time with her while I cook. The guy has it pretty good, but I think I have it better actually. He hates house work and I hate commuting and sitting in an office. We both think we got the better end of the deal (most of the time).

[MrFrugalChicago]

Perhaps your comments were just attempts to add a little levity to the discussion and challenge OP to consider his wife's perspective (which I agree is necessary, as indicated by my earlier post), so forgive me if I'm misinterpreting these posts.  But I have a problem with the knee-jerk "husband doesn't carry his weight" line that so often gets thrown around, accepted without question, and laughed about both in my real life and on this forum.  If one parent is a SAHP and the other works outside the house, it is fair to expect that the SAHP does the vast majority of the domestic work.  This has nothing to do with the genders of the SAHP and the working parent-- it is merely a function of each parent's availability to do domestic work. 

Thanks for the support!

I am not perfect. Do many things wrong, financial and otherwise. However just because I make a complaint against a SHP does not immediately mean "OMG husband is the lazy one and does nothing, if he could switch roles he never would".

Also reminds me of a facebook picture making the rounds.

Value of a stay at home mom:
Cook: 50k
Housecleaner: 30k
Childcare Worker: 20k
Grocery Shopper: 20k
Clothes Washer: 20k
* Who really earns the most in a house?  *


I mean yes.. it has grains of truth. I mean we can try to measure minutes working or something and compare, but if you are even in the same ballpark and 1 parent isn't watching TV all day... then I think this line of thought is stupid.


I love that my wife usually gets grocery. However I do not mind it at all. If I had to go once a week for an hour to get groceries to save us money, I 100% would. A lot of little fun purchases make it in the grocery cart. I have in fact even offered this.. send me with a shopping list - I will get anything on it + anything else I can figure out that we need for the next week - and the wife declined. She wants to shop, she has nothing else to do.

[chasingthegoodlife]

Lots of good perspectives in this thread.

One more thought from me: OP, you say that you'd like your wife to work enough so that she values your family's money. Have you considered that when she is working and earning 'her own' money she might feel even more entitled to spend on whatever she chooses? And that shr 'deserves a reward' for raising a one year old and working outside the home, whereas her friends who are SAHP have things much easier?

[mathjak107]

lots of truth to what you say . in fact when my wife was working someone stole her credit card . i didn't report it because the bills were smaller than when she had it .

[MrFrugalChicago]

Lots of good perspectives in this thread.

One more thought from me: OP, you say that you'd like your wife to work enough so that she values your family's money. Have you considered that when she is working and earning 'her own' money she might feel even more entitled to spend on whatever she chooses? And that shr 'deserves a reward' for raising a one year old and working outside the home, whereas her friends who are SAHP have things much easier?

Sure anything is possible. But right now it is me savings for emergency, retirement, wanting big things (vacation) etc, and her only saving to make me happy. Somehow I need a way for her to want to save for her.

[MrFrugalChicago]

The OP has over $6k in bike expenses over the last few years, for example. If my spouse spends that much on themselves just on bikes, you better believe I'm going to have a hard time when they decide that I am spending too much on relatively small things.

So since I got crucified on the bike, let me clarify the story a bit.

1) My main hobby outside of work is triathlons. That is about all I do for "fun" and for "health". Without doing some form of tri, my health and happiness is very low. So if I am going to spend stupid money on something, at least it has some benefit outside say a nice car or whatever (my car is worth about the same as my tri bike)

2) I had my eye on bikes for a while. Shopped around. For the kind of bike I wanted, the low end was around $1800 (Felt), but the one I ended up getting was around $3000 (Scott). Part of the problem is the only Felt dealer in town is not a very good person, and I did not want to deal with them / support them.  So sure, could have saved $1200 here.

3) I literally got a 2nd job to pay for it. This was pre-baby. I worked a few hours a week for 3 months on a 2nd job. Got about 5-6k for that side job. Blew 3k on a bike, gave rest to family / savings account fund. If I am going to blow 3k on a bike I don't need, at least I 100% paid for it from an EXTRA job I worked.

In comparison wife wanted a new something. I reminded her of my bike story, and said she could get a side job for 20-40 hours and pay for it. (This was pre kid, she did not have the kid in the way). She just stared at me with empty eyes.


So I don't know...    We have very different attitudes about this stuff.