f*cking day care!

[steviesterno]

we had out mini mustache a month ago, and since this is America, even for all our greatness and low taxes, my wife only gets 6 weeks of paid leave (60% pay, technically having a baby is a disability) and 6 weeks of unpaid. we're shopping day care rates to start in 3 months, and it's looking like it's going to cost between $1000 and $1200 a month!

we've done the math, and she wants to go back to work, plus it's financially viable that she does. we'll get to contribute some pre-tax money that stays tax free as long as it pays for daycare, but they have a $5k/year max. but the rest of it will come out of pocket. So they way I figure it, there goes our whole after-tax investment money.

anybody have any suggestions for making this more tolerable? besides knowing that we moved to this area in the best school district (seriously ranks higher than private schools) my thought is by the time kindergarten rolls around, that cost goes away and we reap savings from what we would have spent on school (2k a month).

[NoStacheOhio]

Hi, welcome to the club. You're not missing anything. That's just how it works, and it sucks bad.

On the upside, your wife got paid for some of her leave! That's pretty rare.

If you find $1000/mo for newborn care at a place that doesn't double as a pawn shop or something, sign the hell up. That's really cheap for newborn care.

It gets cheaper as the kids get older, our bill just got cut in half when our son started preschool. We went down to 4 days, and the county chipped in because our day care participates in the universal pre-k program and we're under 400% FPL.

[little_brown_dog]

Hugs - we wanted a stay at home parent in general, but I won't lie, the fact that daycare would have left me earning only $150 bucks a month after taxes/daycare/gas money surely sealed the deal on that decision. I know a few people who actually couldn't afford to go back to work which is absolutely insane.

$1000/mo for newborn care sounds great (provided its a high quality, licensed facility of course). Around here, it's about $2000-$2500/mo for full time care of infants in a high quality center. I suppose part time work or having family members watch the little one for a day or two each week is not an option? Are you looking at centers or licensed home daycares? Home daycares tend to be less expensive, but you might have to be more cautious to make sure you pick a truly great one.

The parents I know who use daycare generally have just begrudgingly accepted that the first couple years will be a wash in terms of earning money (they have incomes where daycare cost easily uses up 50-75% of one monthly salary). They are trading the pain of a couple years of ridiculous expenses for long term income gains by keeping both parents in the work force.

[jac941]

Congrats on your little one! Yup. That's what daycare costs. $1000-1200 a month is actually really cheap for newborn care. We live in a high cost of living area and have 2 kids under 5. We spend $3350 per month on daycare / preschool. It's financially crushing. There's a huge reprieve when they get to kindergarten, but if you both work full time there's still after school care and summer "camps" so it still isn't free. As far as making it more tolerable ... financially there's not much except make more money? For me what makes it tolerable is knowing that our savings rate is going to skyrocket as our daycare costs drop simply because we're used to living without that money now.

[Indio]

Totally agree that the cost of daycare is shocking. Ideas to save on the cost are: consider asking your employer if you can work from home part time and alternate days with wife,
hiring a sitter/nanny can sometimes be cheaper depending on where you live,
ask a friend/neighbor/SAHM that has kids if she/he might be interested in making extra money by watching your child.
 
I stayed away from day care because often parents sent sick kids there because they had to work. Daycares can become breeding grounds for germs if they don't sterilize toys and surface.

[MayDay]

We found that in home care ran about half the price.  But we visited one and were like NOPE.  I couldn't do it unless I knew the person- those I know who do it, the daycare lady is a family friend or something. 

But, yup.  1200 a month sounds about right for low to medium cost of living areas.  Plenty of people find they either have a SAHP after kid #2, or space the kids 5+ year apart for this reason. 

But don't kid yourself that childcare costs will drop too much in school.  There are a million random Mondays off, plus snow days, plus holiday breaks, plus before and/or after care, plus the nightmare that is summer care.  I would guess that the cost of preschool day care (which is much lower than infant) is about equal to the cost of school age care. 

[I'm a red panda]

Yep, that's what daycare costs around here- $1200 or so a month.

I'm really impressed you can get into an infant room with 3 months notice.  Most around here are booked 12 months out or more.

[justajane]

But don't kid yourself that childcare costs will drop too much in school.  There are a million random Mondays off, plus snow days, plus holiday breaks, plus before and/or after care, plus the nightmare that is summer care.  I would guess that the cost of preschool day care (which is much lower than infant) is about equal to the cost of school age care.

Yes, this. I stay home, but before and after care (some parents do both) plus camps are crazy expensive. Oh, and camps usually only run from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., which means you're paying between $40-75 more a week for before and after camp care. We have some reasonable summer camps in town, but the average is around $150-$200 a week, so that makes it about $250 for working parents. So, $1000 a month PER KID. At least some programs provide discounts, especially if you book your camps in February and March. My neighbor has a spreadsheet to manage all the camps and times.

That was a wake-up call to me with this whole parenting thing. I thought things magically got easier or cheaper once they entered school. Yes, they sort of do, but it can still add up.

[asiljoy]

Yep, that's what daycare costs around here- $1200 or so a month.

I'm really impressed you can get into an infant room with 3 months notice.  Most around here are booked 12 months out or more.

Doubling that. In my area, 350 a week is considered normal, you'll probably still need to cover center closed dates with back up care, and that's if you're lucky enough to find a place that you stand a chance of getting off the wait list.

[mamagoose]

That price sounds about right. I would suggest considering a nanny option, if for no other reason than the less sick days with staying home vs. being in a daycare. It's the sad truth that working parents will send sick kids into daycare b/c they have to be at the office, even if it means pumping the kid with Tylenol to drop their temp below 101 so they don't get sent home. There are two little girls on my block who share a nanny (their moms are friends & neighbors), and it's the best thing in the world b/c they get the close attention of the nanny, plus a built-in playmate and pseudo-sibling with the other child.

[little_brown_dog]

That price sounds about right. I would suggest considering a nanny option, if for no other reason than the less sick days with staying home vs. being in a daycare. It's the sad truth that working parents will send sick kids into daycare b/c they have to be at the office, even if it means pumping the kid with Tylenol to drop their temp below 101 so they don't get sent home. There are two little girls on my block who share a nanny (their moms are friends & neighbors), and it's the best thing in the world b/c they get the close attention of the nanny, plus a built-in playmate and pseudo-sibling with the other child.

Nanny is a great idea if you can find someone for a similar cost. I know a couple who got a good rate with their nanny who was going to school for pediatric nursing. It was awesome because she wasn't charging super high rates (she viewed the job as good experience for her nursing career) and her education helped put their minds at ease knowing that she knew first aid, cpr, and basic medical care.

[JustGettingStarted1980]

We did the daycare for infant ($1200/month) initially. But then transitioned to Nanny after our second was 3 months old any my wife went back to work 25hrs/week.  The costs were basically the same for home 2 kids with Nanny or Daycare for 2 kids part-time.

Don't underestimate the benefits of your kids NOT getting sick at daycare because they are home with the Nanny.

Also, it takes lots of time to pick up and drop off the kids at daycare (ours was <10 minutes away, but round trip was usually at least 30 minutes b/c paperwork, talking to daycare personnel, carseats, etc)

And, of course, you have to find the right Nanny. We are on our 4th for a variety of reasons. The first couldn't keep up with two kids, two others broke up with their boyfriends and moved to different cities.

[FerrumB5]

Congrats on addition to family!
Make sure the daycare has "tax" number registered with IRS and such (don't remember exactly how it's called) - it's tax deductible to certain limit (I think up to 3k, so I got $600 back in taxes in 2014)

[mxt0133]

As a fellow mustachian you only found out about the cost of daycare NOW, a WHOLE month after your baby was born, seriously!?

I sympathize, I have three so I really do, but that deserves a FACEPUNCH.  That's even worse than someone buying a giant SUV and complaining about how much it gas it uses.

On the bright side you will get an additional exemption and can qualify for the child tax credit if your MAGI is under $110K if you file married filling jointly.

[abhe8]

Congrats on the baby!!

I agree, that sounds right or even  for good quality care.

Gotta give you a tiny infant size face punch though.... You should have looked into the costs a long time ago.

Eta: we have cut childcare costs by working different shifts, weekends, evenings, nights, etc, trading childcare with friends, occasional family help. Also an in home provider may be less then a center.

Eta: and most centers are stickers about a sick kid. They call my sil for every little sniffle or lose stool... She has burned tons of sick time with her newborns. Another advantage to a nanny. :) they will usually keep a child too sick for daycare.

But seriously.... How much would you expect to be paid to take care of a newborn all day, every day? It's full time work. No one wants to work for free. $1000 per month for 80 hours is probably less then $8 per hour, by the time they pay for the facility, insurance, taxes, etc.

[mm1970]

we had out mini mustache a month ago, and since this is America, even for all our greatness and low taxes, my wife only gets 6 weeks of paid leave (60% pay, technically having a baby is a disability) and 6 weeks of unpaid. we're shopping day care rates to start in 3 months, and it's looking like it's going to cost between $1000 and $1200 a month!

we've done the math, and she wants to go back to work, plus it's financially viable that she does. we'll get to contribute some pre-tax money that stays tax free as long as it pays for daycare, but they have a $5k/year max. but the rest of it will come out of pocket. So they way I figure it, there goes our whole after-tax investment money.

anybody have any suggestions for making this more tolerable? besides knowing that we moved to this area in the best school district (seriously ranks higher than private schools) my thought is by the time kindergarten rolls around, that cost goes away and we reap savings from what we would have spent on school (2k a month).

Well, I don't know what to tell you other than...

Think about your child, and how important they are to you.  And - how important their care is to you.  You want them to be safe, well fed, entertained, cared for - hopefully by a professional, no?  For 40 hours a week (or 30, or 50, or whatever), there is someone doing that for you.

So what is that worth to you?

What is the caregiver's experience worth to you?  Like any job, you have people who are trained and good at it, or not.
Both of my boys were in home daycares.  First was highly recommended by friends.  It was a large home family daycare.  My son had a great time there, got to play outside in the dirt.  It wasn't particularly educational but it was loving.  It was also pretty reasonably priced for the time, about $165 a week (but that is in 2006 dollars).

My toddler has been in the same home daycare now for 3.5 years.  While it started at $250 a week, it is now $16,640 a year ($320 a week).

Ouch, right?

Well, I have to tell you, it's a world of difference.  The level of professionalism is that much higher.  Her education is in child care.  Her home daycare is small.  They do a lot of educational crafts and projects.  She really keeps up on things.  She's amazing at caring for my son and the other kids there.  It's like a family (added bonus, she's a close personal friend who I met when my older son, now 10, was born.)

I know it sort of sucks from a Mustachian standpoint, but you get what you pay for.  I am paying an educated professional for her expertise.  I could pay someone less, but around here, they probably wouldn't speak English.  I am still able to save money (I make more than $16,640 a year).  There are things I could do to lower the bill - try working from home, work nights, etc., but that's exhausting.  My son is moving into pre-school in the fall (approximately $2000 a year less), and then will be in kindergarten.

It's short-lived, so that's the way to think about it.  (Also, kindergarten is not free.  YMMV, but there are costs for summer camp, and after school programs.  Plus PTA donations to cover things that are not covered by the school.  I'd estimate that the cost for my 4th grader is:
$900 after school care (per year)
$1000 summer camp
$2000 school donations
So at $4000, it's better than daycare, but not free!

[mm1970]

But don't kid yourself that childcare costs will drop too much in school.  There are a million random Mondays off, plus snow days, plus holiday breaks, plus before and/or after care, plus the nightmare that is summer care.  I would guess that the cost of preschool day care (which is much lower than infant) is about equal to the cost of school age care.

Yes, this. I stay home, but before and after care (some parents do both) plus camps are crazy expensive. Oh, and camps usually only run from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m., which means you're paying between $40-75 more a week for before and after camp care. We have some reasonable summer camps in town, but the average is around $150-$200 a week, so that makes it about $250 for working parents. So, $1000 a month PER KID. At least some programs provide discounts, especially if you book your camps in February and March. My neighbor has a spreadsheet to manage all the camps and times.

That was a wake-up call to me with this whole parenting thing. I thought things magically got easier or cheaper once they entered school. Yes, they sort of do, but it can still add up.

Oh the school schedule!! Two years ago they changed it to start and end on Weds!  That adds 4 more days that you have to find care or take off, because there are no partial (2-day) camps.

Basically all my vacation/ PTO goes to sick days or school holidays.

[GuitarStv]

Daycare around here isn't as cheap as you have it.  Count your blessings.

[onlykelsey]

Yeah, I'm budgeting more like 30k/yearly in childcare, as my husband and I move in to TTC land here in NYC.

[steviesterno]

I did look it all up before we even considered it, but having it in the future made it seem less scary. Now that it's actually happening, and I'm sleeping like 3 hours a night, i think it's hitting harder.

I guess our area prices are pretty good. we toured some places yesterday and like one that's 1 minute from the house, so I can easily bike or walk in nice weather. It's going to be 1100/mo, with 1 week vacation (we don't pay if we keep him home a week). we have no family in the area. Our schedules are such that this will be sort of part time, as I can drop him off and my wife pick him up. they do a maximum of 8 kids, with 2 caregivers. they have a really strict sick policy, but I get a ton of vacation/sick time. about 6 weeks a year or so. Plus, I'm on a school schedule, so most of the school breaks I will have off anyway. Also, Fridays are a half day, but otherwise I can't work from home at all at the point. Neither can the wife, so that's out.

I priced nannies in the area, and the most affordable/licensed was $35k/yr plus health care and a retirement package! if you wanted somebody under the radar and maybe not in the country officially it gets much cheaper, but that seems like a HUGE risk for minimal reward.

I believe my work is trying to start a daycare option, and there have been some rumors of it in the past. we had a turn over in our management recently, so maybe this is a good time to bring it back up?

[JustGettingStarted1980]

Hi Steve,

Check out Care.com, you can find a Nanny in my neck of the woods for $12-18/hr depending on experience, and the website will do all the screening for you. Full time that comes out to 30K+ a year or so, 15K for part time.

You're already paying approximately 14K for day care with the infant, so the costs aren't too far off if interested.

[mm1970]

I did look it all up before we even considered it, but having it in the future made it seem less scary. Now that it's actually happening, and I'm sleeping like 3 hours a night, i think it's hitting harder.

I guess our area prices are pretty good. we toured some places yesterday and like one that's 1 minute from the house, so I can easily bike or walk in nice weather. It's going to be 1100/mo, with 1 week vacation (we don't pay if we keep him home a week). we have no family in the area. Our schedules are such that this will be sort of part time, as I can drop him off and my wife pick him up. they do a maximum of 8 kids, with 2 caregivers. they have a really strict sick policy, but I get a ton of vacation/sick time. about 6 weeks a year or so. Plus, I'm on a school schedule, so most of the school breaks I will have off anyway. Also, Fridays are a half day, but otherwise I can't work from home at all at the point. Neither can the wife, so that's out.

I priced nannies in the area, and the most affordable/licensed was $35k/yr plus health care and a retirement package! if you wanted somebody under the radar and maybe not in the country officially it gets much cheaper, but that seems like a HUGE risk for minimal reward.

I believe my work is trying to start a daycare option, and there have been some rumors of it in the past. we had a turn over in our management recently, so maybe this is a good time to bring it back up?

You've got a pretty sweet deal here. Small daycare, you are on the school schedule, generous sick time?

Plus one week vacation at daycare?  In my town, you pay for the spot, whether you use it or not.

Yes, I'm not sure what nannies are here now, but in 2006 they were $15 to $20 an hour.  I imagine they are similar now, depending on # of kids.  Probably a bit higher, but with the economy, maybe not.

[Kitsune]

I have no helpful comments, but ow, I have no idea how Americans afford children if average childcare is 1,5k/month.

[seattlecyclone]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

[justajane]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

Yeah, the non-profit part-time I send my kid to operates on a razor thin margin. I pay $300 a month for 15 hours a week. Essentially $5 an hour. The only way it can be this low is because the church subsidizes the facility (including paying payroll taxes) and they don't have to pay any form of benefits due to it being part-time.

From what I understand, you have access to a full-time facility for more than 40 hours a week, else how would anyone who works full-time be able to use it. That means that you are likely paying less than $5 an hour for care if you are paying 1K a month. That's a steal. The only way I imagine they break even if a fairly high child to teacher ratio. I personally don't have a problem with a 6:1 or even 8:1 ratio when they get older, as long as the room in which the kids spend their days is very safe. I'm not one to judge a center based on ratio alone. Heck, my five year old's excellent kindergarten has a 21:1 ratio and he still manages to thrive.

[I'm a red panda]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

Just wish they made more...

I worked as an infant room lead teacher for a short time in between jobs. I was required to have a Bachelor's degree.  It paid $10 an hour. Assistants made minimum wage.

[tobitonic]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

[FerrumB5]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

[kathneen]

Yikes! It is what it is though :\. You want to feel comfortable with the people watching your baby. What is his or her safety worth? There are plenty of good things about having your kiddo in day care (while they'll get sick more, they'll also be building strong immune systems so by the time they hit elementary he or she will be a germ fighting rockstar! :P They'll be exposed to different kids, have an opportunity to learn social skills with  non-family members, and ideally get language stimulation throughout the day).

I live in the Bay Area, I don't even want to know what day care prices are.

[FrugalFan]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

In Canada we have up to one year parental leave. The minimum benefit is 50% of your salary up to 55k a year (so about 27k for the year maximum), but many employers top up for at least part of the time. We don't have subsidized daycare in most of the country, except Quebec, where I think it can be about $10 per day but I could be wrong on the exact number.

[Kitsune]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

Canada. Quebec, specifically.

I got a year-long paid maternity leave (75-55% salary, depending on the period, but still paid, and with no work expenses and lower taxes I was still saving $ on that), my husband got a 6-week paid paternity leave when our daughter was born, and we currently pay about 300$/month for absolutely excellent childcare.

[GuitarStv]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

Canada. Quebec, specifically.

I got a year-long paid maternity leave (75-55% salary, depending on the period, but still paid, and with no work expenses and lower taxes I was still saving $ on that), my husband got a 6-week paid paternity leave when our daughter was born, and we currently pay about 300$/month for absolutely excellent childcare.

Quebec has some awesome subsidized daycare stuff going on.  Sadly, it doesn't extend into Ontario.

[onlykelsey]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

Canada. Quebec, specifically.

I got a year-long paid maternity leave (75-55% salary, depending on the period, but still paid, and with no work expenses and lower taxes I was still saving $ on that), my husband got a 6-week paid paternity leave when our daughter was born, and we currently pay about 300$/month for absolutely excellent childcare.

Quebec has some awesome subsidized daycare stuff going on.  Sadly, it doesn't extend into Ontario.

Also, the few times I've visited Quebec, I've seen groups of a dozen toddlers all in one-piece snowsuits waddling down the street on a group leash, which is about the cutest thing in the world.

I get 14 weeks 100% pay at my job, which is gold standard in the US.  Of course I'm white with two graduate degrees, and most Americans aren't that lucky.

[Kitsune]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

Canada. Quebec, specifically.

I got a year-long paid maternity leave (75-55% salary, depending on the period, but still paid, and with no work expenses and lower taxes I was still saving $ on that), my husband got a 6-week paid paternity leave when our daughter was born, and we currently pay about 300$/month for absolutely excellent childcare.

Quebec has some awesome subsidized daycare stuff going on.  Sadly, it doesn't extend into Ontario.

Also, the few times I've visited Quebec, I've seen groups of a dozen toddlers all in one-piece snowsuits waddling down the street on a group leash, which is about the cutest thing in the world.

I get 14 weeks 100% pay at my job, which is gold standard in the US.  Of course I'm white with two graduate degrees, and most Americans aren't that lucky.

Yep. The rest of Canada seems to be working on it, but Quebec has it covered.

My knowledge of this isn't overwhelming, but I do know that France has extremely well-regarded childcare, that Sweden, Denmark, and the UK have ok maternity leave (over 14 weeks), and that Denmark has excellent childcare policies. The US is one of the only first-world countries that lacks both maternity/paternity leave and excellent and subsidized child care.

(And I'm not talking about affordable-but-low-quality child care. I mean educational, fun, learning-experience child care with trained caretakers, high-quality food, etc. France and Denmark are the gold standard for this, based on my knowledge.)

Doesn't much help the people in the US at the moment, but...

[mm1970]

Yes, of course daycare is expensive. You're paying a significant fraction of a trained professional's salary, plus tax/benefit overhead, plus the cost of a building and all the stuff that goes inside. How could it not be expensive?

What she said. Also, those low taxes that make America great are also part of why we don't have the social safety nets that many fellow rich countries do, like free or heavily-subsided childcare and guaranteed paid maternity leave (and paternity leave in many cases). It's also why you needed to move to a good school district to begin with.

As others have said, it could be much worse. You could have childcare costs, for example, and low paying jobs...or be a single mom, which would almost guarantee living in poverty.

Any example of those "fellow rich countries"?

Denmark

[merula]

I don't have any direct experience with day care, but I do want to chime in that in-home places are, generally, very very good. I don't know what you saw, but I don't understand why seeing one bad thing would make you reject all in-home day cares, especially when that is a very good solution to your cost issue.

I personally went to several in-home day cares when I was a kid, and they were very good. We moved around a lot, my youngest sibling is 5 years younger, and my parents figured that it made more sense to keep us together, so I was in day care longer than most kids. My parents never knew the providers ahead of time, but they got recommendations from friends and through church.

Fast forward to today, most of my coworkers with kids use in-home day cares because of the costs, and because of the family-type atmosphere. Centers, meanwhile, tend to act and feel more like school. One friend in particular absolutely loves her day care lady, they've become close friends. The day care lady took care of her first kid for two full days while she was having a difficult labor with her second, and she (provider) has two late-teen daughters who work for the business, are fully licensed and also offer babysitting services.

[BeanCounter]

Daycare is one of those things in life where I firmly believe you get what you pay for. You want a center that pays their qualified people enough that they aren't always looking for another job and leaving. This will help you and your child develop a relationship with the teachers there. It also helps ensure that there are some senior teachers there and not just any college girl they can bring in that thinks she wants to work with kids.
We had a nanny from 0-3 years for ours and then they went to a Montessori daycare/preschool. In home care is great, but it gets really hard to keep them stimulated at >3. Plus they really enjoy the other kids.
Expensive? Yes. We paid $14k-$20k. I just tell everyone that when considering children just plan on paying this every year and you won't ever have to worry about college tuition.
As for kids getting sick in daycare, I really think that's not true. Every kids is different, some get sick more than others. Even if you stay home with them full time they are still exposed to germs.  I know that if I stay home with mine on a day off I end up taking them to the museum, park, library or grocery and THAT's when they get sick. It's not like your never going to take them anywhere.

[aprilchem]

Sounds about right to me as well, although it's more like $1500 a month here for full day infant care.  We had three in daycare at once (not all infants), and paid $3600/month.  Now we have 3 in after-school care 2 days a week and our costs are around $500 a month, so it feels like a huge raise. 

In my area having a nanny is not cheaper than a center unless you have multiple kids - nannies make at least $20/hour.  We considered it, but I was very hesitant to leave my children in the care of one person - I like to know that there are multiple people in the room so if one of them gets upset or overwhelmed somebody else can take over.

[tonysemail]

Sounds about right to me as well, although it's more like $1500 a month here for full day infant care.  We had three in daycare at once (not all infants), and paid $3600/month.  Now we have 3 in after-school care 2 days a week and our costs are around $500 a month, so it feels like a huge raise. 

My son's daycare has worked out really well ... but good riddance. 
He's "graduating" this May and will be in Kindergarten next fall.
I'm excited to see this expense decrease to just the amount required for after school care :)

I find that SF bay area has a big supply of childcare options.
that's the one side benefit of living in a HCOL area.

When I had my first kid, my commute was ~45mins and traversed several subburbs.
I found a reasonable quality home daycare in a less afluent neighborhood, which was at a midpoint between home and work.
That helped save quite a bit and we formed a good friendship with the owner.

[mm1970]

Daycare is one of those things in life where I firmly believe you get what you pay for. You want a center that pays their qualified people enough that they aren't always looking for another job and leaving. This will help you and your child develop a relationship with the teachers there. It also helps ensure that there are some senior teachers there and not just any college girl they can bring in that thinks she wants to work with kids.
We had a nanny from 0-3 years for ours and then they went to a Montessori daycare/preschool. In home care is great, but it gets really hard to keep them stimulated at >3. Plus they really enjoy the other kids.
Expensive? Yes. We paid $14k-$20k. I just tell everyone that when considering children just plan on paying this every year and you won't ever have to worry about college tuition.
As for kids getting sick in daycare, I really think that's not true. Every kids is different, some get sick more than others. Even if you stay home with them full time they are still exposed to germs.  I know that if I stay home with mine on a day off I end up taking them to the museum, park, library or grocery and THAT's when they get sick. It's not like your never going to take them anywhere.

Yes, there are a lot of conversations locally about cost of daycare.

I'd say that infant care around here runs $1000 to $1640 per month.  You can probably find it for $800, but I cannot speak for the quality.

My current childcare is a little less than $1400 a month (my son is 3), in a home child care setting.  My old child care is probably closer to $1000 now (sent my older son), but the quality is definitely different.

There are two very highly regarded childcare centers in this town.  They range from $1400-1640 per month.  They are expensive.  They are well regarded because their teachers have been there for years (so they are paid reasonably well).

[BeanCounter]

There are two very highly regarded childcare centers in this town.  They range from $1400-1640 per month.  They are expensive.  They are well regarded because their teachers have been there for years (so they are paid reasonably well).

This has been our experience. Our preschool/daycare has teachers that have been there 20 years. I really believe that they love their jobs and are happy to be there. Yes it costs a lot, but happy teachers are very important to me. Both my kids love/loved going there, and I'm confident that they are well cared for. My youngest is there now, and when we pray at night he always includes his teacher- "because she loves me".

[bdoubleu]

Wow!  Crazy to see the price ranges of daycare in various parts of the country (and world, I suppose).  Here I was thinking that the $190/week rate we are paying for our infant was a bit high (yes, I realize what that breaks down to in $/hour, but he also doesn't go 8 hours/day).  If we have another kid, the cheaper rate gets a 20% discount.  This is the standard rate/practice for centers in our city.  We also get 10 free days where we don't pay if we don't send him, and also don't have to pay when he stays home sick if he has a doctor's note.  I will definitely remember this thread if I ever again think we pay too much!!!

[Stachetastic]

I need to go hug my day care provider. Here in flyover country, we pay $25/day, up to 10 hours a day for an in home provider. I worked in child welfare for 12 years, so I am as suspicious as they come. I went with the lady that all of my coworkers used, who also happened to be the mother of a friend of mine. She is amazing, and my son considers her family. Still, I look forward to 2017 when he will start kindergarten and we will only be paying for before/after school care. We purchased a home in the same school district as our caregiver so our son can get on/off the bus at her house (a highly rated district, so that was an easy decision).

[mm1970]

Wow!  Crazy to see the price ranges of daycare in various parts of the country (and world, I suppose).  Here I was thinking that the $190/week rate we are paying for our infant was a bit high (yes, I realize what that breaks down to in $/hour, but he also doesn't go 8 hours/day).  If we have another kid, the cheaper rate gets a 20% discount.  This is the standard rate/practice for centers in our city.  We also get 10 free days where we don't pay if we don't send him, and also don't have to pay when he stays home sick if he has a doctor's note.  I will definitely remember this thread if I ever again think we pay too much!!!

This very much changes by location!

My current dcp moved to a different state for a couple of years, because it's expensive here.  Well, they hated it.  And, on top of that, there wasn't quite the interest in paying for quality childcare.  People wanted what was cheap.

So here, you pay for the spot.  If you are sick, if they are sick, doesn't matter.  You pay.  She gets a certain # of holidays/ vacation days a year, paid.  Childcare is hard to find here, so people can have these rules.  It costs a lot, but when you think about it - she has bills to pay too.  She has 6 spots (only one spot for babies) and has to keep filled to make a living.  If she accepts part timers (and she does), then she has to try and fill the open spots (so, if she has a Tue_Thur, then she needs to find a MWF).

In the other state she lived it, you pay for what you use.  Where I grew up, you pay for what you use. 

Depending on the time of year, she'll do drop ins which is nice.  We're out of town for spring break, and she may fill our spot.

[justajane]

I need to go hug my day care provider. Here in flyover country, we pay $25/day, up to 10 hours a day for an in home provider.

Holy moly! I live in flyover country too, albeit it in a large city. I pay $25/day for up to 5 hours. I think you win the prize for most affordable childcare.

[Stachetastic]

I need to go hug my day care provider. Here in flyover country, we pay $25/day, up to 10 hours a day for an in home provider.

Holy moly! I live in flyover country too, albeit it in a large city. I pay $25/day for up to 5 hours. I think you win the prize for most affordable childcare.

Looks like it! And I didn't even think to mention that we don't pay when he's not there--whether he's sick, provider is sick, someone's on vacation, etc. $25/day is definitely the going rate here in rural Ohio, although many providers charge for days the child isn't there. Some of the monthly rates mentioned in this thread are more than our household income!

[MsPeacock]

A nanny is way more than $1000 a month. If you can find someone for $10 an hour, plus employer taxes and commute time (so say 45 hours per week) you are looking at $500 per week. In my area infant care is $2500+ a month and nanny is $20+ an hour (highest childcare costs in the country. Yay ). Yes, the cost sucks. The only upside is that at age 12 or so you don't need childcare any more.

I managed to get a couple hours of telework 2 times a week which helped knock down after school daycare costs.

Save your sick time for the kiddo. You take DayQuil, Motrin, and use hand sanitizer and go to work. Only way to make it sometimes.

[Cognitive Miser]

We paid $300/week for infant care in Colorado after a 10% corporate discount through my husband's employer, at a nationally-franchised daycare.  If we take him out for an entire week, we pay only half the rate to "reserve his spot".  Rates go down as the kids get older, but not significantly.  We pay a yearly registration fee ($100) and a yearly summer camp fee ($40, which enables them to bring in a petting zoo and a fire truck or something, and provide a t-shirt to our kid.)  Waiting lists are at 6 months out or so for infants, up to 12 months at particularly popular places (as in, families put their names on the waiting lists the instant they find out they are pregnant).  I will say that our center provided OUTSTANDING infant care.  They have a very low staff turnover rate and these women know their stuff.  I've learned so much about child development from talking with them!

It really *does* depend on where you live.  There is NO WAY I would put my kid in an in-home daycare in Colorado.  Maybe if we had lived here a long time and built up a good network and had multiple impeccable recommendations for a specific provider, but we're fairly new to the state.  Here's why:  http://www.denverpost.com/investigations/ci_27342874/colorado-has-low-inspection-rate-licensed-child-care
* It is worth it to click this link even if you don't live in Colorado.  It shows the inspection rate for each state in the U.S.  If I lived in Tennessee or Oklahoma, I'd be all over in-home daycare.  California?  Vermont?  No way.
But everyone has a different situation and you must absolutely do your due diligence.  Be sure to pull the state license for your short-list of providers and ask them about any notices or violations.

[chaskavitch]

We paid $300/week for infant care in Colorado after a 10% corporate discount through my husband's employer, at a nationally-franchised daycare.  If we take him out for an entire week, we pay only half the rate to "reserve his spot".  Rates go down as the kids get older, but not significantly.  We pay a yearly registration fee ($100) and a yearly summer camp fee ($40, which enables them to bring in a petting zoo and a fire truck or something, and provide a t-shirt to our kid.)  Waiting lists are at 6 months out or so for infants, up to 12 months at particularly popular places (as in, families put their names on the waiting lists the instant they find out they are pregnant).  I will say that our center provided OUTSTANDING infant care.  They have a very low staff turnover rate and these women know their stuff.  I've learned so much about child development from talking with them!

It really *does* depend on where you live.  There is NO WAY I would put my kid in an in-home daycare in Colorado.  Maybe if we had lived here a long time and built up a good network and had multiple impeccable recommendations for a specific provider, but we're fairly new to the state.  Here's why:  http://www.denverpost.com/investigations/ci_27342874/colorado-has-low-inspection-rate-licensed-child-care
* It is worth it to click this link even if you don't live in Colorado.  It shows the inspection rate for each state in the U.S.  If I lived in Tennessee or Oklahoma, I'd be all over in-home daycare.  California?  Vermont?  No way.
But everyone has a different situation and you must absolutely do your due diligence.  Be sure to pull the state license for your short-list of providers and ask them about any notices or violations.

Thanks for posting this!  I just started a new post about finding reliable in-home daycare because I didn't want to hijack this thread, but maybe I should just delete it now.  I guess this is why none of my acquaintances have their kids in an at-home facility...

[bonjourliz]

I did look it all up before we even considered it, but having it in the future made it seem less scary. Now that it's actually happening, and I'm sleeping like 3 hours a night, i think it's hitting harder.

I guess our area prices are pretty good. we toured some places yesterday and like one that's 1 minute from the house, so I can easily bike or walk in nice weather. It's going to be 1100/mo, with 1 week vacation (we don't pay if we keep him home a week). we have no family in the area. Our schedules are such that this will be sort of part time, as I can drop him off and my wife pick him up. they do a maximum of 8 kids, with 2 caregivers. they have a really strict sick policy, but I get a ton of vacation/sick time. about 6 weeks a year or so. Plus, I'm on a school schedule, so most of the school breaks I will have off anyway. Also, Fridays are a half day, but otherwise I can't work from home at all at the point. Neither can the wife, so that's out.

I priced nannies in the area, and the most affordable/licensed was $35k/yr plus health care and a retirement package! if you wanted somebody under the radar and maybe not in the country officially it gets much cheaper, but that seems like a HUGE risk for minimal reward.

I believe my work is trying to start a daycare option, and there have been some rumors of it in the past. we had a turn over in our management recently, so maybe this is a good time to bring it back up?

Look at in-home providers.  Like, they run a daycare in their home.  We have been quoted $250-400/wk for childcare at a daycare center. Nannies were over $500/wk. But we went with an in home provider (4-5 kids at her home, and she is licensed through the state) at $150/wk.  I loved it. Small number of people in and out, one person (whom we totally trusted) caring for the kids... We found several good in home options and all were substantially less than the center's we considered.

Our state (Georgia) has an online list of all licensed childcare, including in-home.  I bet other states do too. You can see inspection reports, etc.


Also, ask around for recommendations. Other parents have been in your shoes and they might have leads for you.

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