Author Topic: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians  (Read 50103 times)

lifejoy

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Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #250 on: September 28, 2017, 12:03:18 PM »
I experience nipple blanching after a feed. No extreme pain, so I'm guessing not Raynaud's Phenomenon. Should I be concerned? Baby seems to be eating enough. Latch might be shallow half the time though.

Goldielocks

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #251 on: September 28, 2017, 04:58:16 PM »
EY... I am rooting for you.  (pun intended?)  Your description brings back so many memories.   DD did get the tongue tie snipped and it helped enough that we continued breast feeding for 4 months, although bottle supplementation was always in the works after the first couple of weeks, and I did not have your strength to continue with all the different SNS systems and pumping cycles for long. 

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #252 on: September 28, 2017, 08:21:36 PM »
I experience nipple blanching after a feed. No extreme pain, so I'm guessing not Raynaud's Phenomenon. Should I be concerned? Baby seems to be eating enough. Latch might be shallow half the time though.

I had that and my nipples haven't fallen off yet, so I guess it's okay!  My babies also didn't have great latches until they grew a bit bigger.

lifejoy

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #253 on: September 28, 2017, 10:28:37 PM »
I experience nipple blanching after a feed. No extreme pain, so I'm guessing not Raynaud's Phenomenon. Should I be concerned? Baby seems to be eating enough. Latch might be shallow half the time though.

I had that and my nipples haven't fallen off yet, so I guess it's okay!  My babies also didn't have great latches until they grew a bit bigger.

That is good :D

lifejoy

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #254 on: October 02, 2017, 01:24:33 AM »
Update: breastfeeding is going awesomely!! This is a far cry from the stress and pain I felt 7 weeks ago.

I want to thank whoever recommended the haakaa pump; best $30 I ever spent - that thing is AMAZING. Hands free, zero effort, easy to clean. Works like a charm.

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #255 on: October 02, 2017, 01:26:04 AM »
Can giving up dairy reduce my milk supply? Still got plenty of wet nappies from bub, but he's feeding for ages half asleep instead of taking naps during the daytime. He's got a suspected dairy allergy so I've given up dairy over the past week, which coincides with the sleep-suckling (for up to an hour, I get bored after that and move him and he wakes up).

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #256 on: October 02, 2017, 01:26:53 AM »
Update: breastfeeding is going awesomely!! This is a far cry from the stress and pain I felt 7 weeks ago.

I want to thank whoever recommended the haakaa pump; best $30 I ever spent - that thing is AMAZING. Hands free, zero effort, easy to clean. Works like a charm.
This is an awesome update! Really cool to hear that the haakaa is a good pump.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #257 on: October 02, 2017, 07:45:18 AM »
Can giving up dairy reduce my milk supply? Still got plenty of wet nappies from bub, but he's feeding for ages half asleep instead of taking naps during the daytime. He's got a suspected dairy allergy so I've given up dairy over the past week, which coincides with the sleep-suckling (for up to an hour, I get bored after that and move him and he wakes up).

It shouldn't. But, if you're not getting enough calories or liquid, that may impact it.

If your babe is otherwise gaining weight, I would put an end to the sleep sucking. When he starts falling asleep, detach him. If he wakes up and wants to nurse more, fine but put an end to it when he falls asleep. If he is falling asleep before getting a good feed, do what you need to keep him awake (such as undressing, etc).

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #258 on: October 02, 2017, 08:15:56 AM »
What hold do people who use the haaka pump use? I can't figure out how there would be room to have a pump attached to my breast along with my daughter. (Not to mention now she is super kicking and wiggling while eating.)

I never figured out how to pump with a flange based pump while she ate.  I sometimes use the freemie manual pump, but now she likes to pull the tubing.

I've upped her bottles to 4 ounces, which means I need to pump 16 ounces a day, and that is a lot. But I just can't figure out where the haaka would go...

Also- does it work at all if you don't leak when feeding?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 08:22:44 AM by iowajes »

Flyingkea

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #259 on: October 02, 2017, 08:27:41 AM »
What hold do people who use the haaka pump use? I can't figure out how there would be room to have a pump attached to my breast along with my daughter. (Not to mention now she is super kicking and wiggling while eating.)

I never figured out how to pump with a flange based pump while she ate.  I sometimes use the freemie manual pump, but now she likes to pull the tubing.

I've upped her bottles to 4 ounces, which means I need to pump 16 ounces a day, and that is a lot. But I just can't figure out where the haaka would go...

Also- does it work at all if you don't leak when feeding?

It would work with the football hold.
I haven't used one myself, but I understand it creates a vacuum around the breast, which is what draws the milk out,

lifejoy

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Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #260 on: October 02, 2017, 01:21:58 PM »
Haakaa pump - I use a modified cross cradle. I have baby on one side and a free boob in the other.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 02:54:12 PM by lifejoy »

Captain FIRE

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #261 on: October 02, 2017, 02:17:27 PM »
I was able to pump in a cross-body hold.  I just pumped over the baby while he nursed (carefully angled so it was over but not spilling).  Not easy, but doable.  Most difficult part is actually take the pump away from your body.  I did use tubes rather than bottles, which may have helped.

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #262 on: October 02, 2017, 02:55:54 PM »
:/ I deleted my photo but it still shows up when I view this thread by title in my list of threads participated in... I hope adding a new photo will make that go away.

lifejoy

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #263 on: October 02, 2017, 02:56:32 PM »
Ok let me know if anyone knows how I can remove my photo of my bust with baby haha.

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #264 on: October 02, 2017, 03:43:12 PM »
I only see a washing machine.

lifejoy

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #265 on: October 02, 2017, 04:03:38 PM »
Ok good :)

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #266 on: October 02, 2017, 05:16:06 PM »
The washing machine kinda looks like boobs, though.

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #267 on: October 02, 2017, 06:33:17 PM »
The washing machine kinda looks like boobs, though.
I thought so too. I figured it was intentional.

lifejoy

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #268 on: October 02, 2017, 06:43:56 PM »
The washing machine kinda looks like boobs, though.
I thought so too. I figured it was intentional.
Haha I wish I were that clever! Naw, I just grabbed a random photo off my phone :)

EngineerYogi

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #269 on: October 23, 2017, 02:56:00 PM »
Anyone have any experience with Bowen Therapy for a newborn and/or laser tongue tie revision? I'm still having breastfeeding struggles with Yogurt and had a couple of lactation consultants say I should have her evaluated for a tongue/lip tie. I found a highly recommended pediatric dentist that does the surgery with a laser. When I called about an appointment they said they also recommend Bowen Therapy before hand as a complement to the surgery.

Yogurt is a pretty happy baby, she definitely gets gassy but she soothes pretty easily. Bowen Therapy seems to be suggested more for colicky babies. I'm wondering if I should travel down this path or not?

I'm also trying to decide if I should keep putting in all this effort to make breastfeeding work? I'm not currently nursing at all because it was just too much when it wasn't actually doing anything. (Yogurt wasn't transferring at all, so her nursing was just incredibly frustrating for both of us. Based on some bad advice I stopped pumping after feeding her and that on top of my getting sick seemed to have tanked my supply. I'm pretty sure she's so inefficient that she isn't triggering milk production.) I am now pumping 8 times a day, I'm still under producing milk too. I also think I have a slow let down reflex. I pump for 30 minutes every pump session, I started out only getting around 8-9 oz per day (I was pumping more like 5-6 times a day). This week I worked on pumping at least 7 and then at least 8 times per day and my supply has steadily increased (Mon: 6 pumps 13.2 oz, Tues: 7 pumps, 13.6 oz, Wed: 7 pumps, 14.1 oz, Thurs: 7 pumps, 14.6 oz, Fri: 8 pumps, 15.1 oz, Sat: 8 pumps, 16.5 oz, Sun: 8 pumps 17.5 oz). But Yogurt eats an average of 30 oz per day so she is still getting supplemented with formula. All this to say that if she does indeed have a tongue tie and fixing it does make it so she will be able to latch and transfer milk efficiently I'll still have to supplement her until my supply reaches demand (which I hope it does, I'm encouraged since supply is going up). I expect this means I'll be back to the very exhausting nurse, pump, supplement routine for a while in order to get breastfeeding really established. I'm guessing this could take a full month? I go back to work in the middle of January and Yogurt will be off to daycare so she'll be bottle fed while there.

I feel like I have 3 options: continue to exclusively pump and bottle feed, go through the work for a tongue tie revision and "relactation" to get Yogurt to breast feed (possible this isn't successful), or switch to exclusively formula feeding.

Any tips, advice? What would you do? I'm just trying to really think this through. (cross posted in the Baby and Pregnancy thread)

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #270 on: October 23, 2017, 04:08:50 PM »
I'm not sure I'd get the Bowen therapy, but in your situation I'd probably get her assessed for a tongue tie, and cut if there is one. You can give yourself a "sanity timeframe" - if she's worked out breastfeeding within 2 weeks, awesome, if not, the tongue tie wasn't the issue and you can go back to formula/pumping or move to only formuka. If there isn't one, I'd probably move to formula only as my supply dropped from only pumping. *But* I'm not you :) Do you have the energy and support to try this? If you just don't want to do it, that's fine too :)

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #271 on: October 23, 2017, 04:43:46 PM »
EngineerYogi, sorry you're going through that, it sounds frustrating. My DD had a lip and tongue tie, and I had a pediatric dentist use a laser to get them both snipped. My thoughts:

- no guarantee the revision will improve breastfeeding - I had different issues to you, in that she was feeding and supply was fine, but it was a pain issue - incredibly painful and that continued for 4 months

- on the other hand, I've heard that lip ties can cause speech difficulties and tooth decay, and there were no downsides to having the revision done (other than the $600 I had to pay out of pocket) so I thought it was worth a shot

- I was often pumping instead of breastfeeding due to the pain being less on a pump, but I persevered for perhaps longer than I should have due to some internalized assumptions along the "breast is always best" lines that have been discussed really well in this thread. How do you feel about pumping? Is it interfering with your ability to rest, to spend time with baby? Are you placing undue pressure on yourself to get lactation to work out of misguided guilt/anxiety? Would it be a relief to just say "I tried, it didn't work for me, I'm going to switch to formula?" Others in this thread are far more eloquent and insightful about these issues, I guess I'm just trying to encourage you to look after yourself, not put pressure on yourself, and don't feel like you're "giving up" if it turns out that formula is the best option for your bub.

- on the other hand, if you're excited at the prospect of maybe being able to re-establish breastfeeding, then this thread is a great place for strategies on how to do that, and seeing a lactation consultant might be helpful.

Your baby sounds like she's doing wonderfully well, congratulations!

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #272 on: October 23, 2017, 05:42:36 PM »
Can giving up dairy reduce my milk supply? Still got plenty of wet nappies from bub, but he's feeding for ages half asleep instead of taking naps during the daytime. He's got a suspected dairy allergy so I've given up dairy over the past week, which coincides with the sleep-suckling (for up to an hour, I get bored after that and move him and he wakes up).

It shouldn't. But, if you're not getting enough calories or liquid, that may impact it.

If your babe is otherwise gaining weight, I would put an end to the sleep sucking. When he starts falling asleep, detach him. If he wakes up and wants to nurse more, fine but put an end to it when he falls asleep. If he is falling asleep before getting a good feed, do what you need to keep him awake (such as undressing, etc).
I forgot to thank you for the advice, it really helped. I wasn't getting enough calories and my supply has recently jumped! Baby is no longer sucking for ages either.

I'm into Week 4 of dairy free and some of his symptoms are back again. Trying not to worry and just hoping it goes away properly, we see the doc next week to check in :-/
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:01:24 PM by Anatidae V »

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #273 on: October 23, 2017, 06:13:07 PM »
EY - my sons tie wasn't picked up until he was nearly a year old. We were able to breastfeed with it, but kept having issues cropping up (at the time I attributed them to other causes, such as teething). We actually left the hospital with him unable to latch without a nipple shield for the first 3-4 months

When he was diagnosed with it, the LC also pointed out the roof of his mouth was high and narrow, which was caused by his tongue being tethered, which can affect how airways develop - tongue tie can be a cause of snoring and sleep apnea.

We found that after Sir Ed has his ties cut he stopped snoring. At the time he also had 4 teeth, which he would grind. He stopped grinding completely after his ties were cut - if you know to look you can see the difference between them and the other ties. He didn't struggle with solids, but he definitely struggled with drinking - would cough and splutter and struggle everytime we gave him water.

I haven't heard of Bowen Therapy, but I know some places do recommend some sort of body work to help relax the muscles around the release - sadly there hasn't been much research conducted to determine how much/whether this helps with outcomes. (We never did any, so can't help there)

Edit: just wanted to add that in the tie support group I'm in, I have seen parents with tied babies also reporting difficulties with bottles too - struggle to get a good seal, so they end up taking in lots of air, and are quite windy/colic-y. No guarantees Yogurt would have difficulties with a bottle, or not, just something to keep in mind.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:16:20 PM by Flyingkea »

HappierAtHome

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #274 on: October 23, 2017, 07:06:37 PM »
Anyone have any experience with Bowen Therapy for a newborn and/or laser tongue tie revision? I'm still having breastfeeding struggles with Yogurt and had a couple of lactation consultants say I should have her evaluated for a tongue/lip tie. I found a highly recommended pediatric dentist that does the surgery with a laser. When I called about an appointment they said they also recommend Bowen Therapy before hand as a complement to the surgery.

Yogurt is a pretty happy baby, she definitely gets gassy but she soothes pretty easily. Bowen Therapy seems to be suggested more for colicky babies. I'm wondering if I should travel down this path or not?

I'm also trying to decide if I should keep putting in all this effort to make breastfeeding work? I'm not currently nursing at all because it was just too much when it wasn't actually doing anything. (Yogurt wasn't transferring at all, so her nursing was just incredibly frustrating for both of us. Based on some bad advice I stopped pumping after feeding her and that on top of my getting sick seemed to have tanked my supply. I'm pretty sure she's so inefficient that she isn't triggering milk production.) I am now pumping 8 times a day, I'm still under producing milk too. I also think I have a slow let down reflex. I pump for 30 minutes every pump session, I started out only getting around 8-9 oz per day (I was pumping more like 5-6 times a day). This week I worked on pumping at least 7 and then at least 8 times per day and my supply has steadily increased (Mon: 6 pumps 13.2 oz, Tues: 7 pumps, 13.6 oz, Wed: 7 pumps, 14.1 oz, Thurs: 7 pumps, 14.6 oz, Fri: 8 pumps, 15.1 oz, Sat: 8 pumps, 16.5 oz, Sun: 8 pumps 17.5 oz). But Yogurt eats an average of 30 oz per day so she is still getting supplemented with formula. All this to say that if she does indeed have a tongue tie and fixing it does make it so she will be able to latch and transfer milk efficiently I'll still have to supplement her until my supply reaches demand (which I hope it does, I'm encouraged since supply is going up). I expect this means I'll be back to the very exhausting nurse, pump, supplement routine for a while in order to get breastfeeding really established. I'm guessing this could take a full month? I go back to work in the middle of January and Yogurt will be off to daycare so she'll be bottle fed while there.

I feel like I have 3 options: continue to exclusively pump and bottle feed, go through the work for a tongue tie revision and "relactation" to get Yogurt to breast feed (possible this isn't successful), or switch to exclusively formula feeding.

Any tips, advice? What would you do? I'm just trying to really think this through. (cross posted in the Baby and Pregnancy thread)

We did not do Bowen Therapy so I can't comment on that. My baby had a very minor tongue tie and we were told by our lactation consultant that it would probably not solve our issues. We had it cut anyway, not just on the off chance that it might help with BF (spoiler alert: it did not) but because as others have said, tongue ties can have implications for speech, dental health etc.

I did triple torture (BF, bottle feeding and pumping) for almost two months, and then kept pumping without BF for weeks more before I just couldn't keep it up anymore. I'm really glad I kept trying for a while and saw my completely excellent lactation consultant, but I wish I had given up after the tongue tie revision didn't change anything. Everyone's experience is different, but for me pumping for hours every day got in the way of enjoying my relationship with my baby, and contributed massively to my sleep deprivation. Next time around, if I have issues again (which I most likely will) I will listen to the highly qualified and experienced LC if she says "you've done your best, this just isn't working".

TL;DR: in your shoes I would get the tongue tie cut, but then give up on BF a few weeks afterwards if it hasn't improved.

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #275 on: October 25, 2017, 07:20:34 AM »
I too dealt with a minor tongue tie.  We got it clipped before he left the hospital (at about two weeks).  I had hoping clipping would be the panacea, but although it helped some, it wasn't a one shot solution.  I tried hard to get him to nurse, because he was accustomed to bottles at the NICU.  At about 2 months, I finally had him predominately nursing.  He had one day he nursed and didn't take a single bottle (except at night).  And then, he got thrush around 2 months, and even though I wiped off the medication before nursing, I think he still could taste it some so I had to go back to using the nipple shield to get him to nurse.  His weight dropped to 10% even though his height was 90% by his 4 month visit (it was 80% at birth and 50% at the time of leaving the hospital), so I stopped trying hard to limit the supplements and he popped back up to 17% by his 6 month visit.  I triple fed until about 5/5.5 months when I gave up and just nursed first thing in the morning and otherwise I pumped.  6.5 months later I still haven't gotten him off the nipple shield.

At 6 mo I froze 3 mo worth of 4 oz portions, so he could get some benefit after I quit pumping.  7-7.5 months I started to slowly cut back my pump sessions (1 nurse, 6 pumps to 1 nurse, 4 pumps now at 8.5 mo).  And now, my supply seems to have tanked upon getting my period.  So I may be quitting soon.  It'll be a relief in some ways, but I still feel guilty in others...

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #276 on: October 25, 2017, 08:01:31 AM »
I too dealt with a minor tongue tie.  We got it clipped before he left the hospital (at about two weeks).  I had hoping clipping would be the panacea, but although it helped some, it wasn't a one shot solution.  I tried hard to get him to nurse, because he was accustomed to bottles at the NICU.  At about 2 months, I finally had him predominately nursing.  He had one day he nursed and didn't take a single bottle (except at night).  And then, he got thrush around 2 months, and even though I wiped off the medication before nursing, I think he still could taste it some so I had to go back to using the nipple shield to get him to nurse.  His weight dropped to 10% even though his height was 90% by his 4 month visit (it was 80% at birth and 50% at the time of leaving the hospital), so I stopped trying hard to limit the supplements and he popped back up to 17% by his 6 month visit.  I triple fed until about 5/5.5 months when I gave up and just nursed first thing in the morning and otherwise I pumped.  6.5 months later I still haven't gotten him off the nipple shield.

At 6 mo I froze 3 mo worth of 4 oz portions, so he could get some benefit after I quit pumping.  7-7.5 months I started to slowly cut back my pump sessions (1 nurse, 6 pumps to 1 nurse, 4 pumps now at 8.5 mo).  And now, my supply seems to have tanked upon getting my period.  So I may be quitting soon.  It'll be a relief in some ways, but I still feel guilty in others...

Hugs, it sounds like you have done your best.

And my hat certainly goes off to you - pumping is hard work!

EngineerYogi

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #277 on: October 29, 2017, 08:00:34 AM »
Wow Captain FIRE, you triple fed for months!? I am so impressed, that just completely crushed me. You have done amazing for your son.

I really think my daughter's initial weight loss was two fold, her poor latch and my low supply. At 6 weeks postpartum I am still seeing an increase in supply now that I am pumping 8 times a day for 30 minutes each session. She had only breast milk yesterday! 25.5 oz! So I'm confident I'm getting my supply issue corrected. Now to work on nursing/latch again.

Thank you for sharing your experience!

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #278 on: October 31, 2017, 07:20:04 AM »
In fairness, I should note that I was very lucky to have 6 months off from work.  I felt guilty if I didn't try my best to breastfeed until I went back, given I had this incredibly rare (for the US) time off.

Good luck!

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #279 on: April 05, 2018, 03:22:54 PM »
I hope it's okay to post here even though it's been ages since anyone has posted...

I'm 31 weeks pregnant and just had the most upsetting breastfeeding class that had me searching for some more useful information. The class was just pushing breast is best and even though I really want to breastfeed, I felt like it didn't offer any useful strategies for making that happen and just made me feel like I'll feel like a failure if it doesn't work right away. Knowing so many people who have struggled, it felt really off. I'm so grateful that I vaguely remembered seeing this thread when I was first pregnant in October and went searching for it. After reading through it, I feel armed with much better information and I have some questions to talk about with the doctor we're meeting in a few weeks to "interview" to see if we like him for our baby's doctor. Thank you to everyone who has posted and contributed. I hope you're doing well!

EngineerYogi

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #280 on: April 06, 2018, 04:51:33 PM »
I think I posted about this in my journal and the baby and pregnancy chat thread but just for an update and closure on my story.

November 4th I produced more breastmilk than my daughter needed for the first time. I ended up having a surplus every day (producing an average of 45 oz) until mid January when she caught up and was eating 40 oz a day!

I never did get her to latch again consistently. She had a tongue and lip tie revision (via laser) done November 13th by a fabulous Pediatric Dentist who was recognized on Dr. Ghaheri's website (the leading expert in ties). The dentist said that my daughter had the highest palate she'd ever seen and it was likely that even with the revision we'd still have problems. The procedure was going to cost ~$750, but my husband came to the appointment in uniform and she comp'd it. I cried.

Even with the revision we only had a few successful feedings, mostly at night when she was still half asleep. During the day she wanted nothing to do with the breast and would just scream until I gave her a bottle. I was definitely pretty sad about it all. I definitely went through the stages of grief, bargaining is one I still come back to. I constantly wonder what if... But it's all too late now.

I continued to exclusively pump until the end of February (daughter was 5 months old) when I got diagnosed with postpartum depression. I was only pumping 4 times a day by then but it was still for about 3.5 hours a day plus setup and clean up. It was so incredibly draining (pun not intended, but so appropriate). I started to wean from pumping and worked my way slowly to reducing times of pumps and number of pumps in a day. It took some pharmaceutical assistance at the end to completely dry up by my last time expressing milk was over a week ago and my last time using my pump was March 23rd. It made such a difference getting the time back and allowed me to get more sleep.

I still have a few hundred ounces in the freezer so I'm giving my daughter a mix of thawed breastmilk and formula just to extend the amount of time she'll get breastmilk.

I still feel guilty I didn't breastfeed/exclusively pump for a full year, but I know I did what was right for us.

atx

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #281 on: April 07, 2018, 07:40:56 PM »
Not sure if this has already been posted, but I'd recommend expectant parents spend some time on the website of the Fed Is Best Foundation: https://fedisbest.org/

I wish I had - maybe I wouldn't have accidentally starved my first (fortunately he turned out fine) or been so quick to buy into the ideas from lactivists that "everyone can breastfeed" and "low supply is really rare."

cats

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #282 on: April 08, 2018, 07:34:53 AM »
I hope it's okay to post here even though it's been ages since anyone has posted...

I'm 31 weeks pregnant and just had the most upsetting breastfeeding class that had me searching for some more useful information. The class was just pushing breast is best and even though I really want to breastfeed, I felt like it didn't offer any useful strategies for making that happen and just made me feel like I'll feel like a failure if it doesn't work right away. Knowing so many people who have struggled, it felt really off. I'm so grateful that I vaguely remembered seeing this thread when I was first pregnant in October and went searching for it. After reading through it, I feel armed with much better information and I have some questions to talk about with the doctor we're meeting in a few weeks to "interview" to see if we like him for our baby's doctor. Thank you to everyone who has posted and contributed. I hope you're doing well!

I went to a class pre-pregnancy also and in retrospect, I'm not sure how much use advice and strategies are before you actually have the baby.  I'm assuming they went over standard stuff like the baby will need to eat 8-12 times a day at first, and that a nursing session may well take an hour in the first few weeks?  I recall also getting some pictures of what a "good latch" looks like but honestly, they were all at an angle that I was NEVER going to see the baby at, so...eh.  And we got suggestions of different positions to try but again, not that helpful to "practice" with a doll.

I did find that once I was in the hospital, many of the nurses had good advice for trying different positions and showing me how to hand express colostrum (which I did quite a bit of the first couple of days as my son didn't seem to get all that interested in sucking until my actual milk came in, at which point he perked up and decided this nursing thing might be worth doing after all).  Does your hospital/birthing center have lactation consultants on hand? We had one come by to visit twice during our hospital stay.

It seems that the struggles with BFing can be either that the mother just has a really hard time producing enough milk, or that the baby has trouble with extracting the milk.  If it's the former, nursing or pumping more is usually advice #1, followed by making sure you are eating and drinking enough (remember, you're now supposed to be producing 24-36 oz of liquid every day, so you need to drink at least that much water on top of what you would normally drink), and including foods that may promote milk production in your diet (oatmeal, flaxseed, and nutritional yeast are the ones that get the most mention).  If it's the latter, the challenge is to both keep up your supply while also working on getting the problem diagnosed, so you will probably need to pump quite a bit in addition to whatever your baby is nursing.

I would try not to worry about it TOO much before giving birth.  Make sure your home is stocked with a few reusable water bottles that you can stash around to make staying hydrated easy, get some oatmeal along with the rest of your pre-baby stock up, and either order your pump or make sure you know the process for ordering once the baby arrives (my insurance wouldn't provide the pump until the baby was born).  Find out what lactation support services are available at your hospital or pediatrician's office and keep any relevant phone numbers handy.  And take the longest possible maternity leave you can possibly manage.  I had zero problems with breastfeeding until I returned to work and had to start pumping, and in my personal circle of friends, returning to work has been the most prevalent cause of stopping breastfeeding.

nickybecky1

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #283 on: April 09, 2018, 09:51:14 AM »
@EngineerYogi - thanks for the update...I think it sounds like you went to incredible measures for your daughter!

@atx - thanks for the link!

@cats - you're right, probably any breastfeeding class can only be so helpful in advance. I just wish it had been less shamey. We do have lacation consultants at the hospital, and a drop-in lactation clinic, and I just found out from a friend that they rent out scales so if we're concerned about whether the baby is getting enough food in during a feed, we could rent one to have at home.

I found your whole post much more useful than the entire class. :) So thanks for taking the time!

hykue

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #284 on: April 23, 2018, 01:42:03 AM »
Drink *all* the water. And don't be afraid to supplement. But really, drinking is so, so important. When my daughter was ten months old (she was a very early talker) she popped off and told me to drink water. I can't speak for anyone else, but my body acted like it had powdered milk stored up in there. It refused to let down any milk until I drank enough water. And then as soon as I drank, I would feel letdown and have this happy drinking baby.
I did have to pee all the time, but that's way better than a screaming kid and sore nipples. So my personal advice is to over-hydrate just in case, especially if you're having any suspicions about low milk supply.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #285 on: May 08, 2018, 04:52:58 AM »
Just read through this whole thread. BabySLTD is 11 days old and a completely different baby from the 4-day-old who we took back to hospital because he was either screaming or comatose and going eight hours without trying/being awake enough to feed and had about one wet nappy in 24 hrs. I had read a bit of this thread while pregnant and am so glad that I decided my priorities were:
1. Inserting adequate nutrition into baby.
2. My long-term sanity.
3. Breastfeeding.

So when one of the nurses in hospital said that babies just cry sometimes after he'd been on and of both breasts crying for an hour and a half, I insisted he have a bottle and he chugged the lot down and fell asleep for three hours. Babies baby cry for complicated and unsolvable reasons sometimes, but this one was crying because he was HUNGRY.

We're home again and muddling through some combination of breastfeeding, pumping and formula and trying to find a routine that works for us (working out when and how to pump is hard). Much like my labour and delivery, it's not what I wanted in advance but it's what's right and good now.

cats

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #286 on: May 09, 2018, 07:29:46 AM »
Congratulations on the new baby! Hope things continue to improve and you figure out a good routine soon.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #287 on: May 10, 2018, 04:45:25 PM »
I have been enjoying this website: http://breastfeeding.support

shelivesthedream

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #288 on: May 15, 2018, 06:00:01 AM »
I keep hearing that you cannot over feed a breastfed baby. This smacks to me of propaganda. Can anyone shed any light on why they say this? My baby now wants to be on the breast 24/7 and frequently sucks a bit then coughs it up, which says to me that he's full but still sucking (for comfort, presumably) but I'm still not confident in distinguishing when he is hungry and when he is snuggly so I never want to refuse.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #289 on: May 15, 2018, 06:22:29 AM »
I keep hearing that you cannot over feed a breastfed baby. This smacks to me of propaganda. Can anyone shed any light on why they say this? My baby now wants to be on the breast 24/7 and frequently sucks a bit then coughs it up, which says to me that he's full but still sucking (for comfort, presumably) but I'm still not confident in distinguishing when he is hungry and when he is snuggly so I never want to refuse.

Babies can regulate the flow by how they are sucking. So if he wasn't hungry, he could do non-nutritive sucking.
I think it is also because, unlike formula, breastmilk is not always the same- if it is really hot it becomes watery to help hydrate, at nighttime it becomes thicker to require more sucking to make baby sleeping, your body takes biofeedback from baby's saliva to provide them what they need.

BUT- if you have an aggressive let down, that can cause him to cough it up.  Or if his stomach is sensitive to something you've eaten, he could cough it up.  Or if he just isn't wired typically (not saying the baby is abnormal, but all advice is about averages) to switch to non-nutritive sucking, then I suppose he could over feed.  But MOST breastfed babies will not over feed.

cats

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #290 on: May 15, 2018, 11:24:35 AM »
I keep hearing that you cannot over feed a breastfed baby. This smacks to me of propaganda. Can anyone shed any light on why they say this? My baby now wants to be on the breast 24/7 and frequently sucks a bit then coughs it up, which says to me that he's full but still sucking (for comfort, presumably) but I'm still not confident in distinguishing when he is hungry and when he is snuggly so I never want to refuse.

He's around 3 weeks old, right?  I would not worry that you are offering the breast too often yet.  I am sure there is some potential for overfeeding a breastfed baby, but it is minute in comparison to the risk of underfeeding. 

With regards to spitting/coughing up milk, it's pretty common with young babies.  Our pediatrician advised more burping during and after feeding, and sleeping at an incline.

newgirl

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #291 on: May 15, 2018, 12:20:30 PM »
Thank you for a supportive and evidence based thread on this subject. I'm currently pregnant with #2 and really trying to not fall prey to exclusive breastfeeding insanity the way I did with my first. We supplemented before she got to the starvation point but I berated myself for it to the point where it really exacerbated my PPD. I had lactation consultants to the house every freaking day for two weeks to try and figure out what was wrong. Just an all around horrible experience and it's really sad that my memories of her first weeks at home are so dark and sad. Reading all this is a good refresher on a more sanity based approach. I hope next time it goes better for us.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #292 on: May 15, 2018, 12:42:05 PM »
I keep hearing that you cannot over feed a breastfed baby. This smacks to me of propaganda. Can anyone shed any light on why they say this? My baby now wants to be on the breast 24/7 and frequently sucks a bit then coughs it up, which says to me that he's full but still sucking (for comfort, presumably) but I'm still not confident in distinguishing when he is hungry and when he is snuggly so I never want to refuse.

He's around 3 weeks old, right?  I would not worry that you are offering the breast too often yet.  I am sure there is some potential for overfeeding a breastfed baby, but it is minute in comparison to the risk of underfeeding. 

With regards to spitting/coughing up milk, it's pretty common with young babies.  Our pediatrician advised more burping during and after feeding, and sleeping at an incline.

Oh believe me, I'm still convinced I'm underfeeding him! It just got me thinking. The main problem with the spitting up is that it's during a feed and therefore all over me because I haven't yet worked out how to arrange me, him and the muslin to catch it.

little_brown_dog

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #293 on: May 24, 2018, 04:45:51 AM »
SLTD – congrats on the new baby!

A few thoughts-
1)   If baby is gaining well, urinating and pooping frequently (usually after most feeds at this age), and seems satisfied for at least an hour (ideally 2-ish) after nursing, then he is likely eating plenty.

2)   Babies around 3 weeks can nurse frequently as they go through a growth spurt around the 1 month mark – this increase in nursing behavior will usually last a couple of days.

3)   Reflux – some babies with serious reflux (GERD) begin to show early signs around a month old. Reflux babies will often cry a lot, and show hunger cues (rooting, desire to suck/nurse/feed constantly), because of their GI distress/discomfort. Reflux babies – even breastfed ones- may “overeat” because the action of eating and consuming soothes their stomach for a time. Remember, babies only have a very few limited ways of communicating uncomfortable tummy sensations like gas, hunger, or reflux pain – crying, scrunching/moving their body, and hunger cues (rooting, sucking, mouth movements). The difficulty is knowing whether the baby is acting hungry because they really need to eat, or if they are acting hungry because they are uncomfortable in some other way. Either way, it is always best to offer food just in case as underfeeding an infant is way more harmful than giving them a little too much.

More on reflux - Most babies have a little bit of reflux which is considered normal spitting after a meal (a little that comes up, after some feeds but not always). In typical babies, the spit up is often due to burps/wind and the natural "back up" of fluid that can come up from their stomachs as the valve isn't fully developed yet. But problematic reflux known as GERD is diagnosed in those babies who have persistent pain/discomfort, high volumes of spit up (soaking through rags, projectile spits), frequent spit up (multiple spits, usually after every feed), and substandard weight gain (because they lose so much nutrition while spitting up or because they get too fussy to actually consume sufficient quantities even though they might be on and off the breast or bottle a lot). They may frequently spit up during feeds, before they even finish the meal, or even choke and gag during meals because the food is coming back up as they are trying to drink. Both my girls had classic GERD. My second one began showing signs of it around 2-3 weeks, with frequent spitting, constant rooting/acting hungry, and starting to cry shortly after meals. By 5 weeks old, her weight gain was less than ideal and she was rapidly dropping percentiles as her volume of spit up dramatically increased. By 8 weeks she was screaming in pain for hours every evening and was unusually difficult to settle. It often gets progressively worse over the course of the first three or four months of life before it takes a turn for the better and starts to improve. If you notice the warning signs of GERD (pain, high volume spit up, very frequent spit up, difficulty feeding), be sure to mention them to the baby’s pediatrician. Most GERD is effectively treated with non-medical interventions like keeping the baby upright after feeds, taking the time to burp/wind the baby frequently during feeds, and thickening formula or breastmilk if spit up volume is a big issue. But if a baby is still in serious pain, and if that pain is affecting feeding and resulting in poor weight gain, sometimes medications are prescribed. The good news is, most babies with GERD do just fine and grow out of it by 6 months. With both of mine, it was like someone flipped a switch at the 6 month mark. They went from super soakers to completely normal baby spit up and no more discomfort.

PS: I AM SO, SO SO HAPPY YOU FED YOUR BABY! What you describe – the lethargy and the screaming – is a classic indicator of an underfed child. Great job identifying what your baby needed. You should be really proud of yourself for making the right call under such difficult circumstances (new parent, early postpartum, sleep deprived).

Anatidae V

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #294 on: June 10, 2018, 07:38:40 AM »
Has anyone tried this pump?
https://shop.willowpump.com/products/the-willow-pump

Seems expensive but like it could be a good idea...

KS

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #295 on: July 02, 2018, 06:25:51 PM »
Has anyone tried this pump?
https://shop.willowpump.com/products/the-willow-pump

Seems expensive but like it could be a good idea...

Wow that does look cool... Don't know about that one but a friend had the Freemie (similar idea but not with the all-in-one design) and raved about how great it was to pump on her commute so easily so she could reduce how often she had to make time for it in her workday.

EngineerYogi

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #296 on: July 06, 2018, 09:05:12 AM »
Has anyone tried this pump?
https://shop.willowpump.com/products/the-willow-pump

Seems expensive but like it could be a good idea...

Wow that does look cool... Don't know about that one but a friend had the Freemie (similar idea but not with the all-in-one design) and raved about how great it was to pump on her commute so easily so she could reduce how often she had to make time for it in her workday.

I was super intrigued by it, but gosh the cost of the bags!!! I was exclusively pumping though, so I'd need a lot more bags than someone who only pumps once or twice a day.

I tried the Freemies, it was awful for me. I got less than half my usual milk output. I pumped while driving using my usual setup and a big scarf/nursing cover with much better results.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #297 on: July 06, 2018, 10:02:12 AM »
I found the freemies great for on the go pumping, but I only used the hand pump. I literally walked around the st. louis zoo while pumping, and they were much more discrete on the plane than when I had my spectra with me.  Pumping next to strangers is great fun.

But I only used the freemies for relief pumping. Actually now that I am not pumping at all anymore, I still take them on business travel so I can pump an ounce or so daily. My daughter only nurses once a day or so, but it gets uncomfortable to go more than 2 days without her nursing.

clairebonk

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #298 on: July 18, 2018, 03:03:02 PM »
Love love love this thread, and everyone sharing information and stories.

My story: I have 2 kids, 3rd is literally due today. None of my first 2 got formula, as it didn't seem necessary although they both have always been on the slim side (as am I and much of my husband's family). Both lost 10% max body weight at the beginning, which was stressful but formula was never recommended (just supplemental pumping which worked, I guess). My colostrum came in right away and milk came in the normal time period. It took both of them 2 weeks to get back up to birth weight and gained weight normally after that. I say normally, but really their doctor was always badgering me about low BMI even as toddlers, but I tried to ignore it because the kids' genes are tall/slim and both developed normally. I literally have never taken either of them to the doctor because they were sick (just normal checkups and vaccinations). Some kids lay on the fringes of the bell curves, that's how the normal distribution works.

I nursed all through my second pregnancy at least 2x a day, and gave birth naturally 2 days after my due date. I haven't nursed as much through this pregnancy, as the kiddo isn't as interested. I consider myself a very experienced nurser (because I nursed continuously for 5 or so years) and I still anticipate the same with the 3rd coming any day: loss of birth weight, low weight gain.

I went back to work 3 months after each birth, but mostly worked from home for about 1 year and did take some time off while they were both toddlers. I hate pumping. Really dreading it.

Fed is best!


MrsWhipple

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Re: Evidence based breastfeeding for mustachians
« Reply #299 on: July 18, 2018, 03:58:40 PM »
Time to kiss this thread goodbye - it's been two years and we just stopped nursing last week! Bittersweet for me, but it only took a few days for her to stop asking for "beebees".

If I had to do it over again, I'd:

- check for tongue ties right away since apparently they're hereditary
- give my baby more formula in the beginning when she was struggling to gain weight and eat enough
- not even try with that bullshit supplementary nursing system because holy jesus that contraption was just impossible
- read up more on breastfeeding methods because I thought that shit was supposed to be easy, yo, and it was NOT

It took me until the 3 month mark until we were okay with breastfeeding. Milk not coming in, one of the most severe tongue ties the doctor had ever seen, and having to wake up every two hours to triple feed (nurse, pump, bottle feed) just about killed it for me. I was very lucky in that I had already FIREd with my husband and we made it through the tough parts and bleeding nipples. Kudos for those who decide formula is the way to go, modern medicine is great and sometimes breastfeeding is just not in the cards. No shame, feed your babies, mamas.

Last month we went on a cave tour for my birthday. We made it down 200 feet of stairs into the biggest cavern ever when baby starts to WAIL that she wants to go back up. It was seriously the loudest thing ever - the cavern made her cries echo and ECHO and ECHOOOOOOOOOO and you couldn't hear anything else. So I stuck a boob in her mouth and bam, tantrum over. Boobs are magic. Now I'll actually have to learn how to deal with a crying kid, ha!

Okay, good luck to you all!