Author Topic: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way  (Read 2378 times)

ForeignServiceWife

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Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« on: January 29, 2017, 09:45:48 PM »
Hello all!

Over the past few weeks, we have been doing a diaper experiment in the FSW house. The test subject: our 19 month old daughter, Little Miss Mustache (LMM). I wanted to share the results with everyone here in the hopes that we can start a discussion that will benefit all of us as we make the best decision on how to diaper our mini money mustaches.

I was thinking about writing a guide along the lines of “everything that you need to know about cloth and disposable diapering, but there have been MANY such posts written already by people farm more qualified than me. We are all intelligent people here, so if there is something you want to learn about either cloth or disposable diapers, please do a Google or Pinterest search and read to your heart’s content. Below I will share my experiences and opinions. I hope that some of you will do the same.

Many, many moons before LMM was even conceived, I came across a Pinterest post about cloth diapering. Intrigued and totally naïve, I read all I could about cloth diapering for the next several months, right up until LMM was born. It didn't take long for me to be converted – cloth was cheaper, healthier, more ecologically responsible, and there were absolutely no downsides. Cloth was the ONLY option for my special little snowflake.

So we used cloth. We used every type of cloth – flats, prefolds, fitteds, pockets, all in two, all in one, synthetic and natural. And let me tell ya, those diapers and I have been through some tough times together – meconium, washing in the  bathtub, washing in shared coin laundry, and washing at my in-laws, We’ve had hard water and soft water. Before LMM was diagnosed with MSPI, she had a diaper rash so bad that her entire diaper area was as raw as a second degree burn – it took months to heal. We've had to strip minerals and disinfect after yeast infections. We've been on more long car rides and plane rides than I can even count, all with our trusty stash of cloth.

Despite all that, we loved cloth, until a few weeks ago when we just….we didn't love it anymore. We (mostly me, as I'm a SAHM) were tired of dunking and swishing, tired of laundry, tired of clothes not fitting right, and VERY tired of leaks. Seriously, we were going through 3+ pairs of pants per day. So we (okay, mostly me again – Mr. FSW, the ever dedicated husband and father he is, said “you do most of the changes, so whatever you want to do”) decided to take a break and switch to disposables while we reevaluated our religious fervor to all things cloth diapering.

For the past couple weeks, we have been using disposables and…I think I'm in love. Leaks are all but a thing of the past (we still occasionally get one at night because she drinks water several times at night). The pants I put on LMM in the morning are usually the ones I take off her at night. When she poops, I clean up her bum, wrap up the stinky diaper, and throw it away. No dunking and swishing, no poop water flying all over my toilet, and it takes half the time to do the change. She has had no issues with rashes because her skin is not in constant contact with urine-soaked cotton. Her clothes fit the way they should. I can't tell you how awesome that last one is. No more getting new outfits and wondering whether I'll even be able to get it on over her bubble bum. Now she has a very trim bum!

We looked at the health and environmental benefits of each way to diaper. I am not an environmental scientist, nor am I a doctor, but the conclusion that I came to was that each way to diaper has  roughly the same impact on both health and environmental factors. Cloth has fewer chemicals, maybe. Disposables keep your baby drier and help prevent rash. Cloth uses gigatons of clean drinking water to get clean. Disposables send gigatons of plastic and human feces to landfills. Which one is more unhealthy for your baby or then environment? The debate rages on, but I think that in the end, they are both roughly the same.

What about cost? A basic setup for cloth diapers will run you $500-$750. Amortize that over three years (the average time a baby is in diapers)and you've got $14-20/month. We spent double that on our cloth diapers because we really love cotton all in ones (this was before our frugal Mustachian ways), so that's more like $40/month. What about washing? Everyone's utility rates are different, but we have found that with the amount of detergent, electricity, and water we were using, we were spending $15-20/month to wash our cloth diapers. That's a total of $30-40/month. More for us because we spent so much on our cloth diapers.

How much does it cost to use disposable diapers? It depends on what brand you use. We tried Target brand but they were stiff, scratchy and uncomfortable for LMM. Plus, they leaked a lot. I HATE leaks. We tried Luvs, but when they were wet, they sagged in an uncomfortable way for LMM and she would come running up to me asking to be changed every hour. We tried Pampers Baby Dry and Pampers Cruisers and we really love them. The Cruisers work well for us overnight and when I know she is going to be extra rambunctious. The Baby Dry are a great everyday diaper. I get size 4 Baby Dry for 16 cents each with Amazon subscribe and save. The Cruisers were 17.2 cents each on Jet.com with their new customer discount of 15%. LMM has sensitive skin so we use seventh generation wipes. On Amazon or Jet they are about 3 cents each. On an average day we use 6.5 diapers and 6 wipes. At 17 cents each for the diapers and 3 for the wipes, that's right at $40/month for name brand diapers and wipes. For people who are happy using store brand diapers and wipes (My SIL has happily used target brand for all four of her boys), they can actually use disposables for LESS than the total cost of cloth diapers. I should also say that smaller sized disposables are less expensive than bigger sizes. Size 1 Pampers Baby Dry are 11 cents each with subscribe and save, but you use more diapers per day with younger, smaller babies, so I think the total cost per month averages out to be the same as your child gets older and moves to bigger sizes, but goes through fewer diapers.

I don't want it to seem like I am disparaging cloth diapers – far from it! I think they are a wonderful choice for many parents. They were a wonderful choice for us for 1.5 years. Our diapers still have some life left in them, so we are keeping them in case we decide to use them for mini mustache #2 someday. But for now we are sticking with disposables. The money we spent on our current stash is a sunk cost. We save $20/month on utilities and detergent. And now we don't have to buy a toddler size cloth diaper stash for about $300 (LMM is 90th % for height and 80th for weight, so the one size are already getting small). So going forward, we are looking at roughly the same monthly cost for cloth vs disposables.

In the end, the conclusion that I came to was that, like so many other things in parenting, it just doesn't matter which one you choose. Both ways to diaper are effective. Both have pros and cons. And in the end, your kid will grow up and potty train, never giving any thought to which kind of diaper she wore.

What have been your experiences with cloth or disposable diapers? Do you believe one is truly better than the other? What advice would you give new parents?
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firelight

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 10:01:30 PM »
We use both, cloth for daytime and disposable for nighttime and long travel. I'm super happy with the decision. I like cloth because it keeps the bum more airy while disposables are convenient to chuck and can hold a LOT of pee. For us, utilities cost wasn't super high and since I have laundry at home, it was as easy as just starting the load and switching to dryer when needed. Also we got new pocket diapers exclusively and our daycare works with those as well. I guess we've broken even in the past two years and since we plan to use the same stash for baby#2, I think it's going to be slightly advantageous to use cloth whenever possible.

In the long run though, the $100-$300 I save over 4-5 years by choosing one over the other wouldn't affect FIRE too much. So my suggestion would be to use which ever one works for you at that time. And it's never one or other exclusively. There is a lot of middle ground :)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 10:41:01 PM »
Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.

Use disposables in my house, for all the reasons mentioned.
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jac941

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 12:19:55 AM »
We used mostly cloth for our 2 kids. Occasionally used disposables when traveling, etc. switched exclusively to disposables for overnight once the kids were daytime potty trained.

Cloth was definitely cheaper because we bought used, used with 2 kids, and sold everything when we were done. We also hang dry in the summer. The overall savings wasn't that much - maybe a couple hundred bucks over the diaper years? Certainly not worth being miserable over.

What was worth it for us was the early potty training. Started both kids at 18 months and my older boy was done by 22 months, the younger girl trained a little quicker. Getting kids out of diapers was amazing. Pooping in the toilet is so much less messy than pooping in a diaper -- and then sitting in it. Also, no more diaper rash. And no more buying / washing diapers all the time.

So in the cloth vs disposables debate, I vote toilet ;-)

pancakes

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 04:18:13 AM »
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. I'm about to embark on a cloth journey.

My prefolds and covers stash cost us $50 second hand and at that price I think it is well worth a shot. I'm confident we can spend less than $100/year on washing detergents for the nappies and I'm not going to try to calculate the water or electricity costs of washing but it won't be high. I believe we have enough prefolds but think we may need additional covers depending on how we go with leaks. Also depending on the size of our baby, some reviews seem to indicate the toddler size in the brand we have is small on bigger/chubbier babies.

On the other hand, I completely accept that I am absolutely naive and have no idea what I'm in for. I have a box of disposables ready to go and if disposables end up saving our sanity or being better for leaks or as an overnight option or for long trips, we have an open mind.

ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 06:23:37 AM »
jac941, I agree that the early potty training is a great benefit of cloth. My 19 month old shows no signs of readiness right now though, so to avoid a lot of frustration we are just not even going to start until I know she's ready. Also, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to potty training. Diapers? I'm a diapering BOSS, cloth or disposable. Potty Training?.....??????? I need to do some research. Anyway, my point being that if she were showing signs of readiness right now and I could see that the end of our diapering days were near, then we might have just stuck with cloth. But I think we will be in diapers for at least another 6 months, maybe a year.

pancakes, that is a wonderful way to approach it. I wish we had done something similar. But I was so determined to make cloth work at all costs that I had no tolerance for the idea of disposables. We only used them when we HAD to, for rash or some travel. I am so glad that we both have the cloth diapering skills now (I think every parent should know how to pin a prefold on a fully mobile toddler without drawing blood), and if we decide to use our diapers for our second, the costs will be minimal. We have our own washer/dryer in our apartment right now, so laundry is not nearly as bad as the year we spent using coin laundry in the basement, but right now it's also nice to not do diaper laundry at all! Good luck to you with your diapers! If you ever have any troubleshooting questions, let me know! We used prefolds and covers mostly, so we've got some experience with them. There are also some great Facebook groups that can answer almost any question you might have.
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dragoncar

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 06:26:59 AM »
Cheapest is to buy used disposables

iowajes

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 06:58:15 AM »
I'm planning on using disposable because we are needing daycare. The daycare actually will handle cloth, but only to take it off and throw it in a bag; they won't rinse them out. I don't want day-old poop handed back to me at the end of the day.

During pregnancy I am not stocking diapers, but I have bought about 8 boxes (2 each size NB-3); I buy when I find a sale under 12 cents per diaper.  I would have bought lots more, but a third trimester loss last pregnancy has prevented me from hoarding....


Kitsune

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 07:46:30 AM »
We tried cloth (some used, some as presents), and... yeah, the math from the original post works out. Diapering our toddler using disposables costs less than 40CAD/month (and I sincerely hope she'll decide to use the toilet soon, omg). It's not a negligible amount, but it's also not an uber-significant number in our budget, especially when balanced out with the cost of diapers/utilities/special detergent/effort/etc that makes it, at most, a 10-15$ difference for us, monthly.

The biggest win for disposables, though? Less spousal fighting. :)

We tried cloth when our daughter was tiny. We were sleep-deprived (um, still are, frankly), and basically scrambling to keep up with food/housework/enough personal time for sanity/enough spouse-time to like each other/time with the Tiny Howling Dictator, non-negotiable/laundry (holy god how can one kid puke so reliably over ever piece of fabric in the house, I ask you)/errands/etc... and were kind of losing our minds. Adding an extra load of laundry every day or two seemed to just be what pushed it over the edge. Removing that? Removed a whole lot of fighting over the housework.

Frankly, for a difference of 15$/month? We'll take the sanity-promoting option. There are other ways to save 15$. Not needing spousal therapy, as a starting point. ;)

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 08:14:03 AM »
Wow. I guess I hadn't realized the cost difference came down to so LITTLE.

I'll admit, the "crunchy" part of my soul really wars with my practical side. I do disposables at work. I am GOOD at disposables. I've never done cloth. But allergies! (...Butt allergies?) I have extremely sensitive skin, and that seems to run in my family quite a bit. What are people's thoughts on cloth vs disposable and skin sensitivities?
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Kitsune

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 08:26:19 AM »
I have extremely sensitive skin, and that seems to run in my family quite a bit. What are people's thoughts on cloth vs disposable and skin sensitivities?

Possibly TMI: using disposable pads when I get my period basically gives me a diaper rash. I have skin sensitivity of doom. Contrast my daughter: no matter what disposable brand is on her tush, zero rash. Sometimes it depends on person and not heredity.

Also, sometimes switching brands of disposables helps with the rashes (my brother could do Pampers but not Huggies, for example). And I've seen some kids who got rashes of doom no matter what you did, other than a fully bare bum. So... it depends on the kid. Sorry!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 08:39:50 AM »
I have extremely sensitive skin, and that seems to run in my family quite a bit. What are people's thoughts on cloth vs disposable and skin sensitivities?

Possibly TMI: using disposable pads when I get my period basically gives me a diaper rash. I have skin sensitivity of doom. Contrast my daughter: no matter what disposable brand is on her tush, zero rash. Sometimes it depends on person and not heredity.

Also, sometimes switching brands of disposables helps with the rashes (my brother could do Pampers but not Huggies, for example). And I've seen some kids who got rashes of doom no matter what you did, other than a fully bare bum. So... it depends on the kid. Sorry!

Good to know! Like so many things, it just depends on the kid. I guess that makes sense!
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tthree

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 09:09:00 AM »
The biggest win for disposables, though? Less spousal fighting. :)
Solid point.  I knew that when I chose cloth, I was also choosing 99% of the diaper changes and associated laundry.

The oldest in started in cloth around 10 months, and youngest started in cloth at 1 week.  Cost wise: with the first I used pockets diapers, mostly used, but I did buy some Kawaii diapers new (these diapers are cheap and AMAZING).  I didn't have any newborn diapers for the second child, so I bought a "used" (brand new in box pre-fold kit) for $100.  These diapers fit until 6 months. 

In my experience cloth contains explosive poop 100x better than disposables. Child #2 never had a poo-plosion while in cloth.  I also never experienced a leak in pre-folds, and I found that the pocket diapers only leaked when the leg elastic stretched out or the inserts were improperly stuffed.

My tolerance for cloth was probably higher, as both my kids poop trained rather early; only on rare occasion did I need to change a poopy diaper after 12 months.  I could definitely see how poop scraping, dunking, dipping, gets old.

Being a hypocrite, I tended to use disposables at night.  I was using "shitty sleepers" as an excuse. But honestly, they slept equal shitty on the nights they were in disposables vs cloth.

little_brown_dog

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 11:00:04 AM »
Tried cloth because I'm all green/eco friendly/ crunchy type. Honestly, I thought they were way overhyped. I'm convinced that a 50% of cloth diaper users probably don't even like them all that much but feel like they have to use them due to the initial investment or out of enviro guilt ;) 

Sure, they weren't that difficult to use with a young baby, and washing wasn't that bad, but I kindof never really liked having a diaper pale full of poopy water sitting in my bathroom, or a wetbag full of nasty diapers in my diaper bag. I also found they leaked way more at night, and the baby would wake up soaked and upset. And then there was the whole "you can't use certain diaper creams" with them thing. Sometimes I NEED me some Desitin - no, coconut oil isn't cutting it.  All in all, I just found them to be far more work than everyone in the green community makes them out to be. It was more than just having to do laundry every other day -sometimes it felt like cloth diapering was a lifestyle.

We did half and half for a while but over time just went to full disposables. We actually like the target brand...at 14c a diaper on sale, I find them to be worth not having to do poopy laundry every other day, or deal with the hassle of night leaks and diaper cream limitations. Sure it's not eco friendly, but I do plenty of other earth friendly things so I'm being selfish on this one. Being a parent is hard enough, I figure there is absolutely no need to be a martyr over diapers if you don't like cloth.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 11:02:38 AM by little_brown_dog »

Plugging Along

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 12:29:33 PM »
I will admit with my kids, I was so sleep deprived and overwhelmed because my first had a lot of issues, I choose the option that allowed me to remain sane and left stressful.  That was my main criteria not necessarily being green, allergies, or money savings.   That was obviously disposables.   

Here's what I can say, I found an amazing deal for diapers when before my second was born, and spent something like $800 on a one time Black Friday deal.   The diapers were almost 1/2 price.   I made sure that they had a really good exchange policy.   They allowed me to exchange the unopened diapers for larger size, and even larger boxes, which gave me an even bigger savings. 

I also, started my second child on earlier toilet training at about 5 months, my first was at 7 months.   That was the biggest savings.  I didn't it because of costs, but more I found it a time saver having them out of diapers.   They would just walk up to the toilet at 12 months and go.   It was pretty awesome.  So disposable diaper had not impact on early potty training.   They were out of day time diapers just shortly after a year, and completely out before two.  Thought I kept a night time diaper on for insurance.   So I was down to a diaper max two a day just after a year.    I actually had extras that I ended up trading for other stuff.   I would say I spent less than $700 on my second child with disposable diapers. 

For allergies, my kids both had very sensitive skin, but few diaper rashes because they would air out on the toilet most of the time.    I was more concerned with washing diapers because my children were sensitive to most detergents, that I would have to double wash their clothes sometimes without any detergent.   I couldn't imagine them getting clean as a cloth diaper. 

Cloth or disposables it's up to you, but just to show one can still be mustachian with disposables.


Prairie Stash

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 01:03:35 PM »
Thank you for your post. I thought you might be interested in the environmental arguments.

http://www.appropedia.org/Cloth_versus_disposable_diapers
Just a link to the Wikipedia article comparing environmental comparisons; its based on science articles that can be explored for more information.

"Infinite statements representing the above table can be made to represent the relationships between diaper type and resource impact. Here are two broad statements:
Disposable diapers create less atmospheric emissions, waste water effluents, and solid waste (feces processing) than reusable diapers. 
Reusable diapers use less raw material for production and create less post consumer waste than disposables. "

Is summary each have pros/cons. The craziest take away - Cloth diapers are worse for climate change (they emit more Carbon Dioxide). Don't argue with science, its just math adding up all the emissions. Disposables create more landfill waste.

Which environmental issue concerns you the most? A dirty secret about diapers is they're actually a regular case study in environmental science. Its hype vs. reality, sometimes environmentalism isn't pretty and sometimes they get bad results from great intentions.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 01:05:24 PM by Prairie Stash »

kimmarg

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2017, 07:40:19 PM »
I didn't read the whole thread but I have a 14 month old and have hit on what we feel is a happy medium.
We use disposable (pampers) overnight. They just soak up everything. We use cloth (flip) during the day.

The amazing revelation was to add a **disposable liner*** to the cloth!! Poop just goes straight into the trash with the liner - no swooshing around required! It adds a bit of cost to the cloth, but much less than the disposables.  It also means our daycare will take them - they throw out the liner and mess and the wet diapers come home to wash. So much easier!

These are the ones we are using: https://www.amazon.com/gDiapers-Cloth-Diaper-Liners-Count/dp/B00CO1FNAA


kimmarg

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2017, 07:42:17 PM »
I'm planning on using disposable because we are needing daycare. The daycare actually will handle cloth, but only to take it off and throw it in a bag; they won't rinse them out. I don't want day-old poop handed back to me at the end of the day.


Get liners!!! OUr daycare said the same thing. We send her with cloth and these disposable liners and they throw out the liner and we have minimal mess to wash!!

https://www.amazon.com/gDiapers-Cloth-Diaper-Liners-Count/dp/B00CO1FNAA

Secret Agent Mom

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2017, 08:29:00 PM »
I have used cloth with 5 kids, used prefolds, fitteds, AIOs and pockets.  Since I had so many kids, the diapers passed down and the savings was significant.  I also traded and sold used ones.  IME cloth holds bf runny baby poos better than disposables, infact I converted a few friends who had blow-out issues with disposables.  I do like disposables for night and for travel, but some of my kids have had issues with them.  We have never had rash from a cloth diaper, but disposables have caused irritation now and again.  (I recently also switched to mama cloth after 2 years of rashes and burns on me from disposable pads- it took me a while to get desperate enough to try it, best decision ever if you have issues w/ disposable ones!).

I don't worry about the cost issue as much as I do the comfort of it for baby, blowouts or rashes.  I am expecting again and plan to use cloth most of the time, with disposables for going out and at night.  I have some prefolds that are 14 years old and still going strong!  I don't think you can even compare the $$ savings on those! 

ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2017, 08:33:14 PM »
I have extremely sensitive skin, and that seems to run in my family quite a bit. What are people's thoughts on cloth vs disposable and skin sensitivities?

Possibly TMI: using disposable pads when I get my period basically gives me a diaper rash. I have skin sensitivity of doom. Contrast my daughter: no matter what disposable brand is on her tush, zero rash. Sometimes it depends on person and not heredity.

Also, sometimes switching brands of disposables helps with the rashes (my brother could do Pampers but not Huggies, for example). And I've seen some kids who got rashes of doom no matter what you did, other than a fully bare bum. So... it depends on the kid. Sorry!

Good to know! Like so many things, it just depends on the kid. I guess that makes sense!

I honk it does depend hugely on the kid. You remember LMM's bum burn in the newborn days? We figured out that it was mostly linked to her MSPI, but we also thought it had something to do with the  disposables we were using at the time. Looking back, I'm not so sure. I think it was just bad, blistering diaper rash from her milk allergy. Right now she is having zero issues with the disposables and skin sensitivity. In fact, I think her skin is better now because it's not constantly in contact with urine that's mixed with detergent residue, wrapped up in unbreathable plastic.

My personal opinion is that yes, some kids do have sensitivity to diapers, but that it's MUCH more common to have sensitivity to wipes, especially for newborns. It seems like most newborns get some degree of diaper rash because 1) their skin is just soooo dang sensitive, no matter what and 2) a lot of parents go crazy with the wipes and scrubbing off the meconium or runny newborn poo. So the friction and the soapy chemicals really get to them. Wipes are such a low cost compared to diapers that I think it's worth it to get the "good" wipes. That's why we went with seventh generation. LMM has had no sensitivity to them at all. We love them. They are also super high quality and thick, so even a messy poop only requires two, maybe three wipes. As a side not, when LMM's rash was reallllly bad when she was about three weeks old, her pediatrician said that he recommends parents skip wipes altogether for sensitive babies and just run their bums under the sink faucet when needed and use paper towels to dry. Or you can just wet some paper towels and use a couple drops of mild baby soap to wash their bottom at changing time. 

Anyway, for those who are planning on using disposables at birth, my recommendation is to buy only one small pack of newborn or size 1 diapers of several different kinds to see what works for you, what you like, and what your baby will tolerate. 99% of American hospitals use Pampers Swaddlers and you will be sent home with tons of extras (stuff your bag full of diapers every chance you get while in the hospital!), so buy the Pampers Baby Dry and the Pampers Sensitive if you think that will be an issue. Also try Luvs, Huggies, Target and Walmart brand. I've heard Costco is the same as Huggies, so keep that in mind (although their average price is 20 cents/diaper, so not that cheap). You will probably be gifted a lot of diapers too. Most big box stores will take them back for store credit without a receipt if they sell the same thing. So hold on to them until you know what you like and then exchange them for that.

One last thought for sensitivity: some brands of diapers are scented. Pampers (except sensitive) and Luvs are. Not sure about Huggies. Most wipes are too unless they are made for sensitive skin. Diapers it's easy to tell - go to the store and sniff the package. If it's scented, it wil smell. This really bothers some people; it doesn't bother us. I don't notice it all that much once we get them home and get the box opened. I really do wish they were unscented, but the other millions of consumers must prefer it that way.
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ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2017, 08:43:47 PM »
Tried cloth because I'm all green/eco friendly/ crunchy type. Honestly, I thought they were way overhyped. I'm convinced that a 50% of cloth diaper users probably don't even like them all that much but feel like they have to use them due to the initial investment or out of enviro guilt ;) 

Sure, they weren't that difficult to use with a young baby, and washing wasn't that bad, but I kindof never really liked having a diaper pale full of poopy water sitting in my bathroom, or a wetbag full of nasty diapers in my diaper bag. I also found they leaked way more at night, and the baby would wake up soaked and upset. And then there was the whole "you can't use certain diaper creams" with them thing. Sometimes I NEED me some Desitin - no, coconut oil isn't cutting it.  All in all, I just found them to be far more work than everyone in the green community makes them out to be. It was more than just having to do laundry every other day -sometimes it felt like cloth diapering was a lifestyle.

We did half and half for a while but over time just went to full disposables. We actually like the target brand...at 14c a diaper on sale, I find them to be worth not having to do poopy laundry every other day, or deal with the hassle of night leaks and diaper cream limitations. Sure it's not eco friendly, but I do plenty of other earth friendly things so I'm being selfish on this one. Being a parent is hard enough, I figure there is absolutely no need to be a martyr over diapers if you don't like cloth.

So much of this is true for me, especially cloth being a lifestyle. With my daughter's rash issues, I really felt like my life revolved around cloth diapers. She was a kid who pooped every couple of hours until we started her on solids, so I was always fighting to keep her bum clean. The poop burned it more than anything. It wasn't until she was around 7 months old that she was consistently rash free. So I was constantly dealing with an infected bum, yeast-infected diapers, and laundry. The laundry was a big one for me. There were so many diapers to spray out and so many trips back and forth to the laundry room at our apartment complex.

Honestly, I've wanted to switch to disposables for several months, but the huge investment in our diapers, along with my own guilt and crunchiness, held me back until now. But now that we've made the switch, I love it. We may go back to cloth with this one (if she doesn't outgrow them all first) and we will probably use cloth at least part time with our next, but for now the disposables have given me back a good 3 hours of my time every week.
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ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2017, 08:50:13 PM »
For those of you who have had the same diapers for multiple children, what is your secret? We use half Green Mountain Diaper cotton prefolds with Blueberry Capri covers and half Blueberry Simplex/Smartbottoms All in ones. After 18 months of solid use, all of the diapers are starting to show serious wear. Another year would do in some of them. There's no way more than half of my stash would make it through a second kid, let alone a third. And I'm not talking about having some holes here and there, Some of my Capri covers are already about as waterproof as fishnet stockings.

I will admit that with LMM's frequent bacterial and fungal infections, my diapers went through a lot of HOT cycles with bleach. Maybe that condemned them to an early death.
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ysette9

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 09:07:52 PM »
Our experience was similar, though on a much less dramatic scale than the original poster. We wanted to do cloth because of the environmental aspect, but we were not up for swishing poopy diapers in the toilet like my parents did with me and my sister when we were babies. We started with a diaper service. The service itself was great and the cloth diapers were fun for maybe the first day. Then they became a pain, and over the weeks when the baby still hadn't figured out nursing (preemie) and she was still not letting me sleep more then 2.5 hours at a time, the cloth diaper was just TOO MUCH. We switched to Pampers and have never looked back. They are by far my favorite diaper (though my husband buys Target or Costco brands for price; who the hell cares about saving $2.33? I care about a diaper that freakin' fits the first time!). This is one area where I agree with others: there is so much stress on you at this stage of your life that it really is worth it to just find something that works. After all the bitching I've read online about diaper prices, I was surprised at how inexpensive they ended up being in the end.
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ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2017, 09:23:21 PM »
Our experience was similar, though on a much less dramatic scale than the original poster. We wanted to do cloth because of the environmental aspect, but we were not up for swishing poopy diapers in the toilet like my parents did with me and my sister when we were babies. We started with a diaper service. The service itself was great and the cloth diapers were fun for maybe the first day. Then they became a pain, and over the weeks when the baby still hadn't figured out nursing (preemie) and she was still not letting me sleep more then 2.5 hours at a time, the cloth diaper was just TOO MUCH. We switched to Pampers and have never looked back. They are by far my favorite diaper (though my husband buys Target or Costco brands for price; who the hell cares about saving $2.33? I care about a diaper that freakin' fits the first time!). This is one area where I agree with others: there is so much stress on you at this stage of your life that it really is worth it to just find something that works. After all the bitching I've read online about diaper prices, I was surprised at how inexpensive they ended up being in the end.

That was a big shock for me and my husband too. Yes, diapers are expensive if you only buy small packs from the drugstore for 50 cents per diaper, but we get Pampers Baby Dry for 16 cents each on Amazon. Including generous use of wipes, we are paying less than $40 per month for disposables. Like I said originally, once you factor in the cost to wash diapers (and the time!!!) and the cost to buy the net size of cloth diapers, it's the same cost to just use disposables.

 And I agree that it is SO worth it just to use something that works. We tried Target brand diapers, we wants to love them, but LMM leaked everywhere and got a little bit of rash. Same with Luvs. We tried Pampers and we are not looking back. It's worth the extra $5 per month to have good diapers.

There are other ways to save money on babies that are MUCH easier and MUCH more fruitful (used clothing anyone?)
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MayDay

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 04:55:48 AM »
Cloth people (and this has also been said about nursing/formula) sometimes say "with cloth you'll never run out!"

Lol no. I never ran out of sposies. I did run out of clean/dry cloth!

We did some of both. Tried hard to make cloth work but it was so much work. So much washing, so much hanging to dry (don't want to run dryer because $$ plus wearing out the elastic).

In the end it came down to my kids peeing frequently. I'm not going to let them sit in wet cotton. The "stay dry" cloth is a bit better than cotton but a joke compared to sposies. So I was changing pee diapers ever hour. NO. 

I do still use all the prefolds as my cleaning rags 6 years later so they didn't go to waste.

Target sposies worked great for us.

Incidentally I did some elimination communication with dd. Pretty low key. Cut down on a couple diapers a day and she potty trained early by American standards.

The long term good that CE out of other diapers is that I discovered cloth pads for myself and they are the best thing ever.
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ForeignServiceWife

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2017, 06:27:34 AM »
Cloth people (and this has also been said about nursing/formula) sometimes say "with cloth you'll never run out!"

Lol no. I never ran out of sposies. I did run out of clean/dry cloth!

We did some of both. Tried hard to make cloth work but it was so much work. So much washing, so much hanging to dry (don't want to run dryer because $$ plus wearing out the elastic).

In the end it came down to my kids peeing frequently. I'm not going to let them sit in wet cotton. The "stay dry" cloth is a bit better than cotton but a joke compared to sposies. So I was changing pee diapers ever hour. NO. 

I do still use all the prefolds as my cleaning rags 6 years later so they didn't go to waste.

Target sposies worked great for us.

Incidentally I did some elimination communication with dd. Pretty low key. Cut down on a couple diapers a day and she potty trained early by American standards.

The long term good that CE out of other diapers is that I discovered cloth pads for myself and they are the best thing ever.

Yep yep yep. Same here. I just do NOT understand people who run out of disposable diapers. Maybe if you are really struggling financially and are not making ends meet paycheck to paycheck....but for me, 1) I am not in to elimination communication (too lazy to bother), so diapers are a basic necessity for my child, just like food, clothing, shelter, love, and education/enrichment. And come on people, we are Mustachians - there will always be money for basic necessities 2) Once we decided to do disposables exclusively long term, my Mormon heritage came through and I stockpiled on a great deal on Pampers like a hoarding couponer. So now I have 7 months of diapers and 12 months of wipes stocked up. There will be none of this running to the store last minute because we only have two diapers left.

There were some times when I was biting my nails to get diaper laundry done before we ran out though, because for whatever reason that week I just didn't have time to get a load of diapers done earlier.

LMM is a frequent, heavy wetter and the frequent peeing is what got us too. TMI, but her vulvar area was always a little "pruney" because it was in constant contact with urine unless I changed her every hour. This is what also gave us so many leaks. She would just out-pee the absorbency of the diaper after more than one pee. Mr. FSW forgot to change her naptime disposable diaper yesterday so she was in it for another hour after she woke up and there was no leaking at all. It was a miriacle.

And another HUGE +1 for momma cloth. Found cloth pads before I got pregnant and they are amazing. Splurged on a big enough stash to cover my postpartum bleeding and it was amazing. Now that my period is back after 18 months of nursing, I'm in love with my momma cloth all over again!
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iowajes

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2017, 06:52:21 AM »
I'm planning on using disposable because we are needing daycare. The daycare actually will handle cloth, but only to take it off and throw it in a bag; they won't rinse them out. I don't want day-old poop handed back to me at the end of the day.


Get liners!!! OUr daycare said the same thing. We send her with cloth and these disposable liners and they throw out the liner and we have minimal mess to wash!!

https://www.amazon.com/gDiapers-Cloth-Diaper-Liners-Count/dp/B00CO1FNAA

My SIL used gDiapers.  I'll have to see if the daycare will deal with those, or if they are different enough from the normal routine.
Still, I'm thinking disposables might be fine.  Our water is ridiculously expensive compared to other utilities, so I'm not convinced cloth is a huge savings.

Kitsune

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2017, 07:44:36 AM »
I do still use all the prefolds as my cleaning rags 6 years later so they didn't go to waste.

Oh, man, we bought a 24-pack of those super-basic one-layer really large prefolds when our daughter was born, for use as not-diapers.

We basically left baskets of them in every room of of the house. Cover any surface with it before putting the baby down (and it catches the puke!). Put down on the changing table (any spare poo gets on that instead of on the cover, which means that you can get away with 1-2 'nice' covers because they don't need washing twice a day!). Recieving blankets over guests' shoulders? No longer necessary to have a large stock, just toss a prefold over and you're good to go. Etc. And then they all go in the wash when you get around to it, no fuss, no mess.

Or, in other words... we had a particularly leaky baby (omg so much puke). No reflux, no medical issues, she was just pukey (my siblings were the same, so I was kind of expecting it, but my husband was surprised). Having a stock of super-absorbant super-cheap cloths in an abundant enough quantity that we weren't ever gonna run out? Totally worth the 40$ we spent on them. :)

Metric Mouse

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2017, 07:50:21 AM »
I do still use all the prefolds as my cleaning rags 6 years later so they didn't go to waste.

Oh, man, we bought a 24-pack of those super-basic one-layer really large prefolds when our daughter was born, for use as not-diapers.

We basically left baskets of them in every room of of the house. Cover any surface with it before putting the baby down (and it catches the puke!). Put down on the changing table (any spare poo gets on that instead of on the cover, which means that you can get away with 1-2 'nice' covers because they don't need washing twice a day!). Recieving blankets over guests' shoulders? No longer necessary to have a large stock, just toss a prefold over and you're good to go. Etc. And then they all go in the wash when you get around to it, no fuss, no mess.

Or, in other words... we had a particularly leaky baby (omg so much puke). No reflux, no medical issues, she was just pukey (my siblings were the same, so I was kind of expecting it, but my husband was surprised). Having a stock of super-absorbant super-cheap cloths in an abundant enough quantity that we weren't ever gonna run out? Totally worth the 40$ we spent on them. :)
Our baby is not particularly leaky, but I use shop rags for similar purpose. All old teeshirts or worn/stained towels - cover the changing table, cover the floor, cover the couch, wipe up messes, whatever. And after six months, they still look just as good as they did when we started using them. :D
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ysette9

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2017, 08:46:05 AM »
We got some cloth diapers as a gift. Back in the day they made nice burp pads. Now the toddlers big stuffed tree frog wears a cloth diaper that she gets to "change" all the time, and I have another in my car to wipe the condensation off the inside of my windshield on cold mornings. :)
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little_brown_dog

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2017, 11:38:23 AM »
......but for now the disposables have given me back a good 3 hours of my time every week.

Yes, the time piece is something I never see people quantifying – I also spent hours each week just managing the cloth diaper situation. It is what eventually made me say screw it.

I find it funny when I see these green bloggers going on about how cloth really isn’t that much work…and then they list all the requirements to keep diapers in good/non stained condition:

1.   Wet pail soak (and if solid poo, first need to switch scrape off before going in the pail)
2.   No zinc oxide creams (you know…the ones that actually work for hardcore diaper rash)
3.   Special detergent
4.   Hot wash, double rinse (others insist on a 15-20min hot soak before washing and a double rinse)
5.   Slight tumble dry on low/gentle in dryer for 10-15 min (not too hot, not too long!)
6.   Air dry still very damp diapers (don’t forget them in the dryer or else they’ll get mildewy!)
7.   Repeat every 2-3 days with a smile on your face

Voila! SOOOOO easy! Special pail, special creams, special detergent, special washing instructions, special drying instructions…but soooo easy and not time consuming at all!!! Rolls eyes.  Cloth can be great if you don't mind it and baby does well with them, but they are definitely far more work in my opinion.

firelight

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2017, 02:06:44 PM »
I agree I was intimidated by all the washing instructions but once I had the baby, I found that doing two quick washes (one cold to get poo and pee washed and one hot along with other baby clothes to actually wash) followed by a normal dryer cycle works wonders! I've never air dried or done the soaking method. All pocket diapers hold good even after 2.5+ years of washing this way.  And I use tide and none of the special detergent for cloth diapers. I guess the only thing I added was water softener since we have super hard water. But now I add it to all our clothes and it cuts down on detergent.  So it's a win!

I guess the pockets and AIOs are more resilient than what the cloth diapering community gives cred for. One of the main reasons we used cloth more when kiddo was younger was so we can change every hour or hour and half and I was leery of letting chemicals laden disposables near her nether regions 24*7. I still used disposables but cloth was more a way to limit that exposure.

firelight

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2017, 02:10:22 PM »
Also one major advantage of sending kiddo to daycare with cloth diapers was I can see how much poo or pee she's gone at the end of the day instead of just relying on what the teacher said. I mean, you can change diapers when kid is wet but how wet it was is dependent on the person changing it.

We were also dealing with food allergy issues that led to blood in her poo and this was an easy way to get it in the evening and check through poo to make sure there was no blood or catch it early if there was one. Gave me so much peace of mind!

ChpBstrd

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2017, 07:24:05 PM »
We did the worst of both worlds. Spent $300 on cloth diapers. Hated life for a year and a half. Wore out our washing machine and bought another one for $500. Spent an extra $20-25/mo on utilities. Up until midnight doing laundry so we weren't set up to run out the next day. Feces everywhere. Blowouts routinely. Liners helped, but were a PITA to install with little one kicking.

Eventually I said NO MORE, F#@! THIS. The wife still wanted to use cloth, but I just refused and went to the store to buy a bunch of disposables. She gave in, although she made me buy the brown enviro-diapers for 25% more. Life got better for everyone for another several months, until we potty trained at 23 months.

The cloth diapers may have paid for themselves in a breakeven way, but when you're a new parent, you don't have those hours to burn just to use product X instead of product Y.

Anatidae V

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2017, 09:57:08 PM »
We're on the pregnancy side of things, and this discussion is great and making me much more comfortable in our decision to go disposable (at least to start with). If I'd gotten pregnant 5 years ago, I'd have burnt myself out going hardcore cloth from the start; but now I'm chilled out enough to realise that I'd rather research the disposable options and get what I consider the most eco-friendly of the lot in exchange for our sanity, even if they cost a little more. If we're handling it great at 3 months? We might get some cloth ones then.

FWIW my siblings and I were fully cloth diapered/nappied, except the youngest. Mum had nappy rash issues with ALL of us because we just got wet too fast. Cloth nappies do not mean less rash, I'm afraid :| Plus my siblings had some skin eczma/ allergies, and mum had to make her own soap concoctions (that would be much more readily available now), and cloth didn't make it any easier on our skin as far as I'm aware in that area either.

I love my cloth period pads, but I can wash them myself and my baby won't be able to change its own nappy ;)

frugalfinancehippy

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2017, 10:10:48 PM »
I didn't find using cloth diapers hard- used the same laundry soap I use for all our clothes etc but it is already an eco one with no additives. Also, having good quality diapers makes all the difference ( they should also come with a warranty). The natural creams used with cloth are designed to heal rash whereas zinc oxide just blocks the moisture (also its so messy).

My main reason for choosing cloth was to avoid all the chemicals + perfumes in disposables.
I also find people make it far more complicated than it needs to be- just wash & dry them.

I think it just comes down to so many things in parenting where you have to find your own way.


Freedomin5

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2017, 11:43:59 PM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

MayDay

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2017, 06:55:06 AM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

In the US it's called elimination communication.  A few of us referenced it above.

Have you ever tried it? I have. I liked it, as a fun hobby. We had regular success.  It is NOT FUN as the only option. It is misery in the winter.
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Bracken_Joy

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2017, 08:12:19 AM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

Yup, this is called 'elimination communication' here. The thing is, it can be *very* restrictive to mom's lives in the US. Because kids can't just go on the side of the street or in a trashcan. In fact, that could get you fined or even arrested in a lot of places in the US. Not to mention massive social taboo about pee/poop in public places, even when it isn't illegal. So you risk being stuck at home, the only place you can respond immediately to the need- younger toddler have very little time between the urge to 'go' and the action. So early potty training tends only to work for families where they are at home the vast majority of the time.

I did a huge write up on the forums at one point with journal citations, I should track that down....
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a rose by any other name

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2017, 12:21:06 PM »
I haven't found cloth diapering to be difficult, but YMMV. I use Green Mountain Diaper pre-folds and a variety of covers. When my baby was EBF it was really easy--just toss the dirty diaper in the pail and wash on wash day (1 short cycle on cold with borax and line 2-3 of tide, 1 long cycle on hot with borax and line 4-5 of tide), hang the covers (they can go in the dyer but it has the possibility of wearing them out a bit faster) and dry the diapers in dryer on regular setting until fully dry. Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all. I also use regular diaper cream (like desitin) since I use cotton diapers and have a proper wash routine. If you do decide to do cloth, I highly recommend Fluff Love University to help you figure out your wash routine--the admins on the Facebook page are fantastic!

iowajes

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2017, 12:32:29 PM »
Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all.

Wow- how old is your baby? I've worked in a lot of daycares and never cared for a baby that didn't have at least one dirty diaper a day...

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2017, 12:44:29 PM »
Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all.

Wow- how old is your baby? I've worked in a lot of daycares and never cared for a baby that didn't have at least one dirty diaper a day...

With toddler in the 18 mon+ range, my understanding is that anything up to once per 3 days can be considered normal. My understanding is that consistency is a bigger "tell" than frequency for constipation- it should not be hard, dry, or pellet-like. If you have any concerns, be sure to check with your Ped and make sure constipation isn't an issue. It can lead to some major dysfunction with painful BMs leading to BM avoidance leading to blockage and anxiety. Really not a great cycle. Frequently, it's a problem where the toddler only wants milk, no water, and that can lead to constipation in a lot of kids.
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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2017, 01:39:45 PM »
Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all.

Wow- how old is your baby? I've worked in a lot of daycares and never cared for a baby that didn't have at least one dirty diaper a day...

Hahaha. Hahahahahahaa. Ha. Ha. *weep*

Part of what is cementing my decision to NOT do cloth diapers EVER is that my toddler can reliably crap 6-7 times per day. EVERY DAY. No way am I dealing with that.

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2017, 01:58:12 PM »
Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all.

Wow- how old is your baby? I've worked in a lot of daycares and never cared for a baby that didn't have at least one dirty diaper a day...

With toddler in the 18 mon+ range, my understanding is that anything up to once per 3 days can be considered normal.

Ah- there you go. I wouldn't consider 18mo+ to be a baby.  Semantics got me.

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2017, 02:21:52 PM »
Now that my baby eats solids, I have the added step of removing poop with a sprayer or plopping in the toilet before I toss dirty diapers in the pail, but my baby doesn't have a dirty diaper every single day, so it's not really much work at all.

Wow- how old is your baby? I've worked in a lot of daycares and never cared for a baby that didn't have at least one dirty diaper a day...

With toddler in the 18 mon+ range, my understanding is that anything up to once per 3 days can be considered normal.

Ah- there you go. I wouldn't consider 18mo+ to be a baby.  Semantics got me.

Yeah, I wasn't sure. If it is a baby (like, sub-12months), then I don't think less than once per day is normal. I wasn't sure what the poster meant.
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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2017, 03:24:12 PM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

Yup, this is called 'elimination communication' here. The thing is, it can be *very* restrictive to mom's lives in the US. Because kids can't just go on the side of the street or in a trashcan. In fact, that could get you fined or even arrested in a lot of places in the US. Not to mention massive social taboo about pee/poop in public places, even when it isn't illegal. So you risk being stuck at home, the only place you can respond immediately to the need- younger toddler have very little time between the urge to 'go' and the action. So early potty training tends only to work for families where they are at home the vast majority of the time.

I did a huge write up on the forums at one point with journal citations, I should track that down....
That would also be due to sanitary reasons, not just social taboos! Your wastewater *should* be treated prior to release to the environment, whereas babies pooping elsewhere, particularly places that aren't made to handle it, are a public health risk. So elimination communication is a bigger deal in countries with different standards and infrastructure.
*Steps off environmental engineering soapbox*

I just didn't want people thinking it was only a social issue.

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2017, 03:38:13 PM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

Yup, this is called 'elimination communication' here. The thing is, it can be *very* restrictive to mom's lives in the US. Because kids can't just go on the side of the street or in a trashcan. In fact, that could get you fined or even arrested in a lot of places in the US. Not to mention massive social taboo about pee/poop in public places, even when it isn't illegal. So you risk being stuck at home, the only place you can respond immediately to the need- younger toddler have very little time between the urge to 'go' and the action. So early potty training tends only to work for families where they are at home the vast majority of the time.

I did a huge write up on the forums at one point with journal citations, I should track that down....
That would also be due to sanitary reasons, not just social taboos! Your wastewater *should* be treated prior to release to the environment, whereas babies pooping elsewhere, particularly places that aren't made to handle it, are a public health risk. So elimination communication is a bigger deal in countries with different standards and infrastructure.
*Steps off environmental engineering soapbox*

I just didn't want people thinking it was only a social issue.

I wasn't sure if I should go into the sanitation issues. =\ I couldn't figure out a way to broach them that felt organic for me, so I opted to stay focused on the social and legal implications. But yes, you are right. And I would add that sanitation improvement, more than anything else, have been one of mankind's greatest advancements, period.
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MicroRN

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2017, 05:12:44 PM »
We spent about 2.5 years cloth diapering one then two kids, and then switched to disposables when the second was around a year old.  I found that cloth diapering was easy and great until it suddenly wasn't.  Not sure if it was the change in the kids rhythms or our schedule or that I just got tired of it, but it went from no big deal to a huge chore.   

We then switched to Costco disposables, and life was suddenly better.  It was so much easier to stuff a couple extras and some disposable wipes in my purse.  I sold my stash for a decent chunk of money, enough to keep us in disposables for a while. 

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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2017, 06:40:18 PM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

In the US it's called elimination communication.  A few of us referenced it above.

Have you ever tried it? I have. I liked it, as a fun hobby. We had regular success.  It is NOT FUN as the only option. It is misery in the winter.
I have family members that have done this. 2 days of no pants, and kid was potty-trained. Amazing.
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Re: Diapering your baby the Mustachian way
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2017, 08:05:43 PM »
I have no valuable contribution to this thread. Just wanted to throw out there that there is a third alternative. In China, many babies go diaper-less. Their pants have a gap...it's basically two pant legs and a waistband. Grandmas hold their kid up with their tushie hanging down (kind of like making a ring with your arms with the baby sitting in the ring with their bottom in the middle of the ring) and the baby just does his/her business...in the toilet...on the side of the street...in a trash can... Toddlers learn very quickly to squat and go.

In the US it's called elimination communication.  A few of us referenced it above.

Have you ever tried it? I have. I liked it, as a fun hobby. We had regular success.  It is NOT FUN as the only option. It is misery in the winter.
I have family members that have done this. 2 days of no pants, and kid was potty-trained. Amazing.

I've heard this called the 3 (or 1 or 2) day potty training method and it seems to work really well for older toddlers who show a lot of signs of readiness. I plan on doing it this way. Skip the pull ups and moths of being in between diapers and potty training - a couple of days and you're done! I've had family members who spend MONTHS potty training. No thank you. That seems WAY harder than just letting your kid stay in diapers. If it takes longer than 3 days, they're not ready IMO (which is worth a whole lot, seeing as I have potty trained exactly zero children).

And as far as I'm concerned, this is totally different than elimination communication, which entails getting very young babies to consistently use the toilet and skip diapers some of the time or all of the time (see above posts). I read a lot about elimination communication while I was pregnant and decided that I would not pursue it at all because 1) I was going to cloth diaper and that seemed like enough work to me 2) I enjoy going out in public and I don't want to be stuck at home all the time.  I just am not into it. EC is great in cultures that allow it (most hunter/gatherer tribes do not use any sort of diapering system and practice some form of EC). Western culture is just not set up to handle it.
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