Diaper-Free Baby? Did you try EC?

[JGB]

Based on another post asking about baby books, I've been reading "The Diaper Free Baby" and it is an intriguing concept. That said, I'm slightly skeptical, and my wife is much more skeptical.

Has anyone on here actually implemented practices from the Diaper Free Baby or the overarching concept of Elimination Communication? What were your experiences and takeaways?

[RunHappy]

The only experience I've had with it is visiting non-developed countries.  Almost all the babies born in these countries are diaper free and typically what-we-consider-potty-trained by the time they start walking.  Its very fascinating.

[kathrynd]

There are idiots everywhere...do yourself a favor..use diapers.

[JGB]

There are idiots everywhere...do yourself a favor..use diapers.

Despite the term/title, it's not actually about avoiding diapers completely.

[kathrynd]

There are idiots everywhere...do yourself a favor..use diapers.

Despite the term/title, it's not actually about avoiding diapers completely.

I assume it is about trying to get in sync with the babies elimination schedule?
...they talked about that years ago...terrible idea

Yeah..I just did a Google....same hogwash

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I will give you a more sympathetic viewpoint :-). I read the book, too, and had semi-serious intentions of trying it. But... it's a lot of work, and I never really bothered. It was just waaaay too much easier to wait for the baby to use a diaper, then wash the diaper. I cloth diapered.

I did start putting my sons on the potty fairly early--we worked it into our routine from the time they could sit up well. And I kept Big Brother in cloth Gerber pants from about the age of 20 months. He still wasn't a reliably independent potty user until 3 1/2. I did a blog post one time where I calculated how much money I saved by doing that if you're curious: http://frugalparagon.com/2014/07/15/potty-training-frugality/

If you are interested in starting early but not so much holding your floppy baby over a bowl, Diaper-Free Before Three is a little more... mainstream. A little less attachment-parenting-touchy-feely. (Some people love attachment parenting, but it wasn't really for me. I did babywear a lot and breastfed, but no cosleeping and we sometimes used a stroller.)

I don't personally know anyone who used EC, but there is a support group for it on BabyCenter.

[Thegoblinchief]

If you PM myatzeck she can talk to you about it. She's a local Mustachian I'm friends with but not terribly active on the boards. She has been doing it with her youngest and seems to do quite well with it. But, yeah, diapers are still involved.

[MayDay]

We did it with kid 2. Basically they usually need to per/poo five minutes after eating and five minutes after waking up. So at those 2 times I would squat DD over the sink and say "sssssss".  She'd usually go. We didn't do it at night or when we were away from home.

When winter came we stopped because it was much more of a pain with layers of clothes and snapped onesies. But while we did it we saved some diapers, and she potty trained in about 2 days at age 2 yrs 2 months, so I consider it a success.

[SisterX]

I didn't read that book but I did read "Diaper Free Before 3" and I agree that it's a bit more mainstream and, from what I know of trying to go totally diaper free, probably much easier on the parents.
We started around 5-6 months, sitting her on the potty.  It took almost a week before I got the first potty success.  She cried sitting there and then started peeing and looked at me in shock.  When I smiled and said, "Good job!" she smiled back like, "Oh that's why you've been doing this!"  She took to it really fast and started using the potty pretty regularly after that.  She's 15 months now and still not totally potty trained.  Part of that is just that she's young, and part we think is a power struggle thing--she's definitely trying to see what she has control over and what she doesn't.  So we're trying to stop over-praising her for pottying and treat it as more normal--of course she can use the potty, because she's a big girl and she knows what to do.  That seems to be helping.
We've gone from needing to wash our cloth diapers about every other day to washing them about once a week.  It's especially helpful when she poops on the potty, because cleaning out those diapers is sort of a pain sometimes.
Overall, I really like our approach.  We're definitely going to do this when we have a second kid, particularly after hearing other parents' stories about trying to potty train their toddlers.  Pain. in. the. ass, apparently.

[Kmp2]

We have dabbled in EC since around the time her poops were regular and we could predictable see them coming (once solid food was firmly established, and breast feeding was waning - so 10-12 months old). She now reliably poops on the potty, peeing has taken a lot longer, our first success was getting her up and on the potty first thing in the morning, and she was sooo shocked! Now she will pee whatever is in her bladder every time we put her on the potty (@ 22 months)... next up a few days without pants on and teaching her to hold her pee a bit longer and to only go on the potty. I'm just not sure I want to give up the convenience of diapers yet... not rushing around trying to find a bathroom/having accidents when you're out is kind of nice... although I am sewing up some big girl looking pull ups/cloth diaper combos... so hopefully those will help once we start hard core potty training.

[Luthien]

I am not very active on the forums, but since I was tagged here I will chime in. I have used principles of EC with all four of my kids with tremendous success. I started with my first when she was three months old. We didn't abandon diapers by any means. It's more about communicating with your baby about going to the bathroom than anything else really.  That child was out of diapers and wearing underwear well before age two. With the remaining three kids we started at birth. Currently the youngest is five months old and she rarely poops in a diaper, instead favoring the toilet. I still change a lot of wet diapers because four kids = can't respond to baby's needs instantly every time. But even though I haven't been able to give it as much attention as I did with my oldest, I still consider it a great success. All of my kids were out of diapers much much earlier (years earlier in some cases) than my friends' kids. This alone makes it a tremendous financial boon, so I think that despite any initial skeptical reaction (believe me, my husband and I were incredulous when we first heard about it!) you owe it to yourself to give it a try. You might be surprised. Feel free to ask me any questions - I'm happy to talk more about it and share more info and nitty gritty details if people are interested.

[julez916]

So funny that this came up today... I have a five week old and was just talking to a friend about ec this morning. She's doing it, I an still learning about it. I was just reading what I could find online, then decided to check here because it seems like a very mistaken thing to do. So nice to have a few different perspectives in one place!

[JGB]

Thanks for the responses. I'm mostly coming away with a feeling of "EC can definitely work and be beneficial, but it's a highly individualized process to find out what parts work for each baby and what parts don't."

Other than the Diaper Free books mentioned above, are there any other EC resources anyone here would recommend?

[brandino29]

There are idiots everywhere...do yourself a favor..use diapers.

I'm not sure how using diapers is a favor to yourself.  For some reason people think that diapers are easy, they're not--they're a huge hassle and they cost tons of money.  Yes, having to change your kids clothes because she had an accident is also a hassle but those accidents will only last so long before the little ones start to realize it isn't fun. 

This is a perfect example of one of those things where people are so concerned with making it easy that they actually do themselves a disservice and make it harder on themselves in the long run.  What's more of a hassle?  Having a kid in diapers until 3.5 or having a kid fully potty trained at under 2 years or younger? 

With all that said, we didn't go in full steam.  We started putting our daughter on her potty around 12 months and getting her used to it and she would pee pretty regularly.  On weekends or days we were both home, we tried to let her run around most of the day without a diaper (yes, she had accidents, no, it's never much pee and very easy to clean, but she also learned quickly that way. "Uh oh" rather than just peeing in her diaper without letting us know and continuing to play.  She learned to associate the sensation of needing to pee with holding it, they don't learn that in a diaper).  We put her in a diaper at night and sent her to daycare with diapers.  We felt it was a good compromise between the approaches.  Now, she's not even 2 and she uses the potty regularly to pee and just started using it regularly to poo.  She'll even use the big potty if we're away from home. 

Keep the MMM mentality -- don't let the naysayers or the mainstreamers get to you.  Do what works for you.

[kathrynd]

Having raised 4 kids..they were all toilet trained by 2 1/2.

You're right..I should have said...do your kids a favour..use diapers.

Parents get stressed when toilet training too early and the kids end up crying.

[kander]

I've tried it for a while, but it wasn't my thing.

But now or son is 16 months and we have started "playful potty training". No pressure involved for him to do anything on his potty, but we put him every day on his potty to read a book or sing some songs. Hopefully he will get used to using the potty. And when he pees or poops, then we will celebrate it :) Let's hope it works :)

[emily2244]

Do it! I did it from birth with both of mine, but only very part time. It is an awesome way to communicate with your babies. They went in diapers a lot, but we also saved a lot of diapers/money. My boy was fully potty trained by 2. Not super-early, but it was totally stress-free, since it was something he always did. My youngest is 1 and often goes in the potty. I don't see why any main caretaker wouldn't do it, honestly. It is easy, saves money, and takes the stress out of potty training.

[MayDay]

I've tried it for a while, but it wasn't my thing.

But now or son is 16 months and we have started "playful potty training". No pressure involved for him to do anything on his potty, but we put him every day on his potty to read a book or sing some songs. Hopefully he will get used to using the potty. And when he pees or poops, then we will celebrate it :) Let's hope it works :)

If you are home, leave his pants off if you have hard floors, and keep the little potty handy. If he starts to go, stick him on it quick and praise the snot out of him. He'll probably get it pretty quickly.

[abhe8]

Yeah, I used it with all four kids, part time. It took care of the poops pretty earlier, which made cloth diapers a breeze. They have all been day trained by 18 months. Night time... Well, my 4 and 6 yet old boys still wear pull ups, but my daughters night gained a few months after day training. Saves tons of money on diapers! For sure with a try.

[kander]

I've tried it for a while, but it wasn't my thing.

But now or son is 16 months and we have started "playful potty training". No pressure involved for him to do anything on his potty, but we put him every day on his potty to read a book or sing some songs. Hopefully he will get used to using the potty. And when he pees or poops, then we will celebrate it :) Let's hope it works :)

If you are home, leave his pants off if you have hard floors, and keep the little potty handy. If he starts to go, stick him on it quick and praise the snot out of him. He'll probably get it pretty quickly.

Thanks! I'll try it downstairs. Upstairs we have wooden floors, so that won't be a succes ;)

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

If your wood floors are properly sealed, getting pee on them will not be a big deal. Don't ask me how I know this.

[julez916]

So since this thread started, we have been playing with EC. I've even heard my husband try it a couple times, which I was not expecting. Our lo is 6 weeks old, and it's amazing how quickly she had picked up on what we are doing. I'm totally impressed! It does require me to pay attention (it only stated working when we recommitted to a no tv policy-- we had been watching while she was doing the cluster feed thing), but aside from that it's been pretty easy! And she gets the bonus of mostly dry diapers, which she seems to appreciate.

[CanuckExpat]

I had also been curious about this topic (we aren't implementing it.. yet?) and did a quick glance around for information.
I thought this was a relatively balanced overview of the topic at a high level: Infant toilet training: An evidence-based guide

They dismiss the extremes on either end of the spectrum
i.e. No you won't scar your kids for life by doing this, but also there's no proof it leads to better parent/child connection or anything like that.

It does reduce diaper use and/or laundering, which I think is an advantage.
They also point out that these methods are widespread in the rest of the world, but the social systems are very different so it's "easier" for parents to implement than in North America.

i.e. in other parts of the world a child having an accident on your floor or furniture is just something that happens occasionally, not something to be mortified about
It obviously is more work, but then again, so is diapering..

I'm hoping to hear about this from people who have tried it

[MsFrugalista]

My partner and I have recently also started to talk about DFB with our newborn (now 2 months old). We also joined a local group in the hopes of learning from other people's experiences - but have yet to go to a meetup due to time constraints. I would especially like to try it while I am on leave for the next few months and have time to give it a try. I understand it requires a lot of work upfront, but if I can go from laundering the little man's cloth diapers every 3 days to once a week, it'll be awesome! Hoping to hear others' experiences (positive and negative) on this thread.

[julez916]

In case it helps, here is a more specific view of our experience so far. I basically take my daughter to the bathroom first thing in the morning and after feedings. If she stood eating and fuses a bit, that's usually a pretty good sign. We do infant massage with her and sometimes she pees during that, so I just try to be sure to make the curing sound when she does. And if she doesn't, we go to the bathroom right after. That's how we caught our first poop. Since then, if I notice her making a poopy face, I ask if she's pooping, then check her diaper right away and take her to the bathroom. She will usually stop pooping when I check, then finish as soon as we are over the toilet. It does require a parent's attention, but I'm finding that getting her to poop in the toilet is with it-- it's much easier than cleaning up the magically poopy diapers we get otherwise!
We are just starting this journey, so my experience is limited, but I'm always happy to share what I'm learning.

[Mr One Wheel Drive]

We did EC and it worked out really well. It took constant attention at first, and a lot of misses, but by 8 months she was out of diapers. The time invested at the beginning more than paid for itself it the end.

I think that every thing about EC lines up with mustachian principles. Save money, spend your time on something quality, and put in the effort to reap huge rewards in the future.

One poster talked about the no TV principle. Once she turned off her TV she was able to better notice her child's needs. It goes beyond just potty training, the real goal is having a better relationship with your kids.

I'm surprised how some of the other posters had such negative attitudes towards being "touchy feely", trust me, it's OK to be touchy feely with kids they will survive.

[CanuckExpat]

We did EC and it worked out really well. It took constant attention at first, and a lot of misses, but by 8 months she was out of diapers. The time invested at the beginning more than paid for itself it the end.

One Wheel Drive (and others here who have said they successfully tried EC), do you have any descriptions on what you were doing specifically that worked, or guides that you followed?

I was on the fence, but I am pretty "results oriented" as they say, being out of diapers by 8 months sounds great.

The one time I had looked up some information online, I ended up a glossy kind of website that very strongly encouraged you to buy their book as the best way going forward (what a surprise), so that kind of turned me off. It would be great to hear if it is something you more managed to figure out yourself and with the help of others, and what kind of things you did that worked and didn't.

[Mr One Wheel Drive]

Don't put too much emphasis on being out of diapers. The real goal, if you want to be goal oriented, is to be better in tune with your baby's needs.

I read the book by Ingrid Bauer called "Diaper Free! The Gentle Wisdom of Natural Infant Hygiene" and I thought that it was well worth it.

The good thing is that if you try it and it doesn't work out you are not stuck with it.

What worked for me first and foremost, I think, is to carry my daughter in a sling with me. Going out in the Ottawa winter was fine, I just had her under my jacket with her head sticking out the zipper. Knowing that she might start to pee at any point, and that she wasn't wearing a diaper, I quickly got the hang of paying attention. It also opened lots of other doors too like doing dishes, laundry and other chores with her. Otherwise if I put her down for too long she would start to fuss and want attention.

When I thought that she might want to pee I held over over her potty / toilet / bowl and cued her... If she didn't need to go nothing happened (this was probably 75% of the time). Other times maybe she didn't need to after all but she had made the association to push and would pee anyways. Probably one a day or two I'd get peed on a bit, but it was no big deal, I just change my t-shirt.

Regularly she had to go after waking up and ten minutes after a feeding. Otherwise you just get a sense, both from her actions and also knowing that it's been a few hours since the last time.

Contrary to what a lot of people say it's quite possible and normal. In fact, disposable diapers were not invented until quite recently, and EC is probably still what half the world's population does.

[julez916]

I just started reading the kindly sample of the same book and may end up buying it. So far we've just been figuring out it as we go and working off of toss from others. I'm not asking to get her out of diapers completely either, and I think it could easily be stressful for everyone if that's the goal. I just want to be tuned in to my baby's needs, and I do feel like it's strengthening our relationship. We started with just taking her to the bathroom after she eats and when she wakes up as those are times when most babies have to pee. I found it was hard to time it right, just going off of that, so I added in keeping her on an unfastened prefold when we are around the house. It makes it much easier to tell how often they are posting and what their patterns are. I'm going to try what you said, one wheel, and go diaper free in the sling. We recently switched from wrap to sling around the house since I can actually put it on without help. It's been a game changer in general, and if it helps us on our ec journey, all the better.
So far, we've been catching a couple of pees a day, but almost every poop. As soon as we caught the first one, I think she was hooked. I took her with me to a mommy and me yoga class yesterday and she actually stopped nursing, looked at me, and made a straining face/grunty noise. I thought she was pooping, so I took her to the bathroom to check. Her diaper was clean, but as soon as i took her to the toilet, she totally let go. I'm convinced it would have been a blow out, and she very distinctly told me it was coming. That alone makes it worth it for me. It's such a cool feeling too get such a clear message from a seven week old! And the look on her face--she was just so happy!
CanuckExpat, I'd love to hear how it goes off you do give it a try!

[Mr One Wheel Drive]

It's such a cool feeling too get such a clear message from a seven week old! And the look on her face--she was just so happy

That is great! Good luck.

[kimchi]

If your wood floors are properly sealed, getting pee on them will not be a big deal. Don't ask me how I know this.

And if your wood floors _aren't_ properly sealed, the pee mostly 'disappears'...(don't ask me how I know this) hehheh