Author Topic: Childcare costs multiple kids?  (Read 5288 times)

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2018, 06:11:19 AM »
Especially once they added a second kid into the equation, it just made no sense for the wives to continue working.
That sucks for the wives.

My wife earned more than me and is not the domestic sort, so, partly in the expectation of a second child, I moved my work to home. I work part-time at home and she full-time at an office, and I'm the stay at home parent. I think that, setting aside questions of money, once kids come along 1.5 full-time equivalent jobs per household works well. Either one parent does full-time advancing their career and the other part-time, working just enough to stimulate their brain and get some adult conversation not about babies, even if not enough to advance their career, or they both do a bit short of full-time, so they both have roughly equal amounts of time with the kids, and can both have decent careers.

Nor do I think the decision should be entirely financial. For example, if the wife suffers postnatal depression, it'd be worth dropping household income for the guy to be at home, at least for a while. And short of depression some people are well-suited for a life at home and others aren't, and this is not dependent on gender.


We do one day a week of childcare to give me a break (the other's in school) and give the kid some bigger social stimulation than I can offer (dads are on the outer in the parent circle). It's subsidised heavily by the government so only costs us $41 or so a week.

Slow&Steady

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2018, 08:11:11 AM »
That sucks for the wives.

My wife earned more than me and is not the domestic sort, so, partly in the expectation of a second child, I moved my work to home. I work part-time at home and she full-time at an office, and I'm the stay at home parent. I think that, setting aside questions of money, once kids come along 1.5 full-time equivalent jobs per household works well. Either one parent does full-time advancing their career and the other part-time, working just enough to stimulate their brain and get some adult conversation not about babies, even if not enough to advance their career, or they both do a bit short of full-time, so they both have roughly equal amounts of time with the kids, and can both have decent careers.

Nor do I think the decision should be entirely financial. For example, if the wife suffers postnatal depression, it'd be worth dropping household income for the guy to be at home, at least for a while. And short of depression some people are well-suited for a life at home and others aren't, and this is not dependent on gender.


We do one day a week of childcare to give me a break (the other's in school) and give the kid some bigger social stimulation than I can offer (dads are on the outer in the parent circle). It's subsidised heavily by the government so only costs us $41 or so a week.

THANK YOU!!!

Signed
A wife that sounds like yours (with a husband that also stepped down from his work to take care of kids)


It drives me crazy that the cost of childcare is almost always compared to the wife's income when determining if somebody should stay at home, take $100s of dollars per week off most people's income and you will see a difference.  I think if people are going to compare the cost of childcare to a wife's salary and leave off the other benefits of her working (adult interaction, insurance, mental well being, growing level of confidence outside of being a parent, retirement savings, etc) then the same should be done for the husbands salary.  But ultimately staying at home is about more than just the financial aspects of childcare and they all aspects should be considered.  Determining who is mental up for the job of childcare (if either parent is) is rarely considered.  There are too many SAHM that suffer from depression that would do so much better if they were working, not all women (or people) are cut out to be full-time caregivers.  -Rant Over-

TVRodriguez

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2018, 12:15:56 PM »
We have 3 kids, about 2 years between each of them.  When they were babies and preschool age, we had them in a montessori that had a baby room (started at 3 months) and that went up to early elementary school.  One drop-off, one pickup, close to home, good hours, kind teachers, and a sibling discount.  We have a pool at our home and are paranoid about drownings, so I refused to have a nanny, since drownings can happen in less time than it takes for a nanny to use the bathroom.  This was the closest-to-home "daycare" that I felt comfortable with.

The montessori aspect was a bonus, but I was won over by it.  My 9 year old was recently remembering her "old school" as a place that they just played all day long.  She doesn't remember the lessons as "school" at all.  Highly recommend a similar approach if it fits your budget.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2018, 09:25:57 PM »
It drives me crazy that the cost of childcare is almost always compared to the wife's income when determining if somebody should stay at home, take $100s of dollars per week off most people's income and you will see a difference.
Well, on average women are paid less than men, so if you're going to compare the cost of anything to one member of a mixed-sex couple, you'll compare it to the woman's to make it sound too expensive so you can whinge about it and demand more government help, that's just the middle class way. But you are right that the joint household income must be considered.

Quote
I think if people are going to compare the cost of childcare to a wife's salary and leave off the other benefits of her working (adult interaction, insurance, mental well being, growing level of confidence outside of being a parent, retirement savings, etc) then the same should be done for the husbands salary.  But ultimately staying at home is about more than just the financial aspects of childcare and they all aspects should be considered.  Determining who is mental up for the job of childcare (if either parent is) is rarely considered.  There are too many SAHM that suffer from depression that would do so much better if they were working, not all women (or people) are cut out to be full-time caregivers.  -Rant Over-
I agree with all of this. But I really do want to emphasise that the decision should not be solely financial. That's important to emphasise in our culture generally, because we put such a high value on money, but also here on this forum because accumulating financial wealth is the focus of many people here.

However, what too many miss is that money is simply a tool to make your life better. And if you can make your life better in other ways, why not? For example, you could spend $10k a year on a car and $1k on a gym membership where you go to spin class, or you could ditch the car and just cycle to work. So you get the health benefits without spending the money. Likewise, if getting to workplace A means $10k more income, but that $10k goes on a car, then the workplace within walking distance that pays $10k less is, financially, absolutely equivalent. However, the reduced stress of walking rather than driving, the health benefits from walking, these are all things which are hard to put a dollar number to, but which are nonetheless benefits.

Likewise in a household deciding what to do with their kids. You could have one parent on $100k and another on $50k, and in some cases it may actually be smarter for the $100k parent to stay at home.

We know that a stable loving family is the best indicator of someone's long-term success and happiness in life, more important than race, social class, religion or lack of it, educational level of parents, and so on. So what sorts of things can we do to have a stable and loving family?

Well, I think that everyone sitting down for dinner to a home-cooked meal each night, the house being clean and (more or less) tidy, bedtime story for the kids, no rushing around or screaming or drama because we're trying to do 4 hours' housework in 1, no arguments about whose turn it is to do the dishes, the full-time working spouse able to come home and bathe or play with the kids and not have to worry about all that domestic nonsense - well, this makes the family home more stable, and when we're not as stressed it's easier to be loving.

Because the domestic stuff is done during the day, this gives a family time to just hang out, or take them to violin lessons or soccer or teach them Torah or whatever you think is important. Having someone at home may reduce income, but it may actually enrich your family life.

Consider that domestic stresses can and do lead to divorce, and that chasing after careers while at the same time trying to be a parent (thus, chasing two careers) is a definite stress. Now think of someone you know who's been through a messy divorce with upset children who are torn between the parents or hate one of them. How much money would you pay to avoid that, and instead have a stable loving family? No father wants to be the last lines of Cats In The Cradle.

Trade or professional careers are important, yes. But being a husband or a wife or a parent is also a career. Money is important, yes. But money is a tool to first get you necessities and next to make your life better. In each decision in life, consider whether you are spending your time and money in the best way to make your life better. As the saying goes: nobody ever lay on their deathbed saying "I wish I'd spent more time at the office."

I firmly believe that a sober assessment of all aspects, not just financial, will lead to the man in any mixed-sex couple with children staying at home with the children far more often than is currently the case. Historically both men and women usually worked from home, so this wasn't really an issue. They were always around their kids whether they liked it or not :D

Heroes821

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2018, 08:15:56 AM »
We have three and we learned with 2 that it cost more than one of our jobs (accounting for travel to and from work on top of daycare) to have 1 in before and after school and 1 in all day and we ended up just going with SAHM. 

Now that two are in school and the third is a toddler we are considering going back to two jobs, but it only works because the wife's job would be less than half the month with 1/3rd of the work being weekends.   Unless you make bank it's just too insane in cost imo.

A good trust worthy Nanny can be a huge boon, but expect minimum costs of like $12/hr in lower cost of living cities, but that was my experience awhile ago.

letsdoit

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »
We have 3 kids, about 2 years between each of them.  When they were babies and preschool age, we had them in a montessori that had a baby room (started at 3 months) and that went up to early elementary school.  One drop-off, one pickup, close to home, good hours, kind teachers, and a sibling discount.  We have a pool at our home and are paranoid about drownings, so I refused to have a nanny, since drownings can happen in less time than it takes for a nanny to use the bathroom.  This was the closest-to-home "daycare" that I felt comfortable with.

The montessori aspect was a bonus, but I was won over by it.  My 9 year old was recently remembering her "old school" as a place that they just played all day long.  She doesn't remember the lessons as "school" at all.  Highly recommend a similar approach if it fits your budget.

monetssori in my area is like 20k/yr for little tykes. 
I was thinking about it until I calculated the opportunity cost

TVRodriguez

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #56 on: July 30, 2018, 12:41:05 PM »

monetssori in my area is like 20k/yr for little tykes. 
I was thinking about it until I calculated the opportunity cost

Yeah, $20k/year per kid would definitely have been out of our range.  We are very fortunate that there are many montessori options here, ranging in price from reasonable to unreasonable.  We paid about $20k/year total for all three of ours, including aftercare.  I like montessori, but I don't think montessori is worth spending outside anyone's budget.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2018, 06:11:00 PM »
I firmly believe that a sober assessment of all aspects, not just financial, will lead to the man in any mixed-sex couple with children staying at home with the children far more often than is currently the case. Historically both men and women usually worked from home, so this wasn't really an issue. They were always around their kids whether they liked it or not :D
Relevant to this, this will be an interesting series.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2018/aug/06/clarke-gayford-is-staying-at-home-with-baby-neve-so-whats-the-big-deal
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/06/rory-mcleod-on-paternity-leave-its-a-really-healthy-thing-for-your-mind


The series seems to be aimed at getting government to pay men to stay at home, as many governments do for women. Well, The Guardian is just one of those papers aiming at middle class hoping for a handout. I would suggest that even absent financial incentives to do so, there are good reasons for the father to be the stay-at-home parent.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 06:12:52 PM by Kyle Schuant »

BeanCounter

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Re: Childcare costs multiple kids?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2018, 06:25:15 PM »
When we decided that neither of us wanted to stay home full time, I quit worrying about the cost of child care. We pick what we think is the best situation for us and our children and just pay what it costs and don't think about it again. IMHO with childcare you often get what you pay for.
My kids are now school age and we have the same mentality for afterschool and summer care. There is a huge difference in the cost of an afterschool nanny and the local latchkey program. But knowing my kids get snack, homework and downtime in their own quiet home and that I don't have to try and race out of a meeting to get to latchkey before it closes is worth every penny.