Author Topic: Cars for large families  (Read 72729 times)

VaCPA

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Cars for large families
« on: April 08, 2016, 06:43:35 AM »
What do you guys with large families drive? We went from 2 kids to 3 this year, and one of the challenges was knowing our paid off cars (sedan and small SUV) wouldn't cut it and we needed a bigger car. That wasn't an issue going from 1 to 2. The minivan is the obvious choice but wife was very opposed to driving a minivan at first, although I didn't care because I value functionality. We looked at several mid-sized SUVs with 3rd rows and they were just too small to fit all the carseats. We probably would've had to get one of the big SUVs like Yukon/Suburban/etc, but those are really pricey and gas mileage sucks. Ultimately ended up with the minivan and I think wife is coming around to it.

VaCPA

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 08:12:54 AM »
Quote
ended up with

Does this mean you made a purchase? What did you go with?

Toyota Sienna

MayDay

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2016, 08:58:13 AM »
We originally had 2 Civics, we now have 1 civic, one minivan.  We were gifted the used minivan, so the up-front much higher cost of the van was not a factor. 

We only have 2 kids, so we obviously can do just fine with the Civic.  But the minivan has major advantages which make it well worth the slightly (at least as long as gas prices are so low) higher costs to run it. 

1.  Carpooling is possible
2.  When family is in town we can take one vehicle
3.  We can buy bigger stuff like furniture on CL
4.  We use it a good bit for yard/garden projects
5.  We can no longer fit in the Civic to go camping or other gear-intensive trips like that with 4 people in the car.  Obviously a rack or hitch carrier of some kind can solve this problem for cheaper than a whole new car, but it is WAY easier to just chuck stuff in the back of the van.
6.  Same with bikes- we can't get even just the kids bikes into the trunk of the Civic- with the van we can chuck all the bikes in the back including adult. 
7.  People say "just rent a minivan for vacation" but in most non-touristy places minivans are not available to rent. 
8.  It is certainly possible to fit 3 kids across the backseat of many cars, but having done it in the Civic, complete with the super narrow Radian carseats, it is miserable IMO.  It isn't viable for long trips (for my kids- do other people's kids not hit/kick/etc each other in such close vicinity?).  It isn't viable for long trips as the get older either- there just isn't really room for 3 adult-ish sized teenagers in the backseat of a small sedan. 
9.  3rd row seat SUV/wagon type vehicles are either GIANT and super $$$, or the 3rd row is tiny and horrible and not practical for anything except occasional use.  And you have WAY WAY WAY less space than a van for basically the same price and mileage. 

All of these things are of course possible to overcome.  You can get a hitch and rack on a tiny car.  You can rent or borrow a bigger vehicle to buy stuff on CL or do garden loads.  You can not carpool.  You can suck it up and deal with 3 across in the backseat.  But it is just so EASY to do it with a van.  It makes my life so much more pleasant in so many ways. 

That said, if our van dies, having only 2 kids, we can't justify the purchase of one.  We will likely get a larger sedan instead (Camry/Accord).  If I had 3+ kids though, you would have to pry my minivan from my cold dead hands. 

VaCPA

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2016, 09:25:34 AM »
But it is just so EASY to do it with a van.  It makes my life so much more pleasant in so many ways.   

Totally agree. I always said if we stopped at 2 kids we were NOT getting a new car, even though my wife wanted one. Our paid off Nissan Rogue could be a little tight on vacations but I got the roof box and we managed fine. However the convenience of some of the minivan features like the sliding doors is amazing. I'm never getting rid of it

acroy

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2016, 09:47:02 AM »
Minivans are awesome. Enjoy.

Spiffy

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2016, 10:23:15 AM »
We recently bought a used Dodge Grand Caravan. I love that thing. I had been a life long Volvo driver (bought first one when I was 17 and the next one when I was 31). I planned to drive the Volvo Wagon until it would not go anymore. It was almost 20 years old and had 200 thousand miles and I still loved it. But when the oldest of our three kids grew legs longer than mine, and I couldn't take the bickering from the back seat anymore, I bought the van. I called it the Dork mobile for the first few weeks, but now I love it. The seats fold down into the floor, making for a huge and flat cargo space, if needed. We took a three week road trip from Texas to Canada this summer, and it was great for traveling. Also, this is my first post. I guess I felt strongly enough about the minivan to register!

hoping2retire35

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2016, 02:10:14 PM »

tobitonic

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2016, 07:27:45 PM »
We have two minivans and two kids. No regrets! Of course, we're planning on adding a third (child, not minivan) to the mix next year.

mm1970

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 12:06:04 PM »
Minivans are awesome. Enjoy.
+1
+2

I don't have one, because I only have 2 kids and can't really justify it when the old car, a 2006 Matrix, is running fine.  But I drool over them!

MrsDinero

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2016, 12:14:28 PM »
Minivans are awesome. Enjoy.

We have a Honda CRV because we were planning on 2 kids.  Now that #2 is on the way, I wish we would have gotten a minivan instead.  The CRV is roomy enough, but with 2 kids under 2 it would be nice to have just a little more room while they are in carseats and strollers.

bobechs

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 12:19:39 PM »
Depending on the size of the family, you might consider the M923 truck.

It's got the oh-so-important all wheel drive (all three axles!) and the weight to come off best in any collision-centric encounter with lesser vehicles.

Even better, they are cheap to buy (but a bit more expensive to run), multi-fuel turbo-charged, seats twenty, convertible top and you can park them anywhere.  I mean, who is going to stop you?

Here goes one now:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/M923-5-Ton-6x6-Military-Cargo-Truck-AM-General-M939-Series-No-Reserve-/381598530227




Alex321

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 12:21:15 PM »
What do you guys with large families drive? We went from 2 kids to 3 this year, and one of the challenges was knowing our paid off cars (sedan and small SUV) wouldn't cut it and we needed a bigger car. That wasn't an issue going from 1 to 2. The minivan is the obvious choice but wife was very opposed to driving a minivan at first, although I didn't care because I value functionality. We looked at several mid-sized SUVs with 3rd rows and they were just too small to fit all the carseats. We probably would've had to get one of the big SUVs like Yukon/Suburban/etc, but those are really pricey and gas mileage sucks. Ultimately ended up with the minivan and I think wife is coming around to it.

An Odyssey purchased a few months before #3 arrived. But we held on to the sedan and small SUV just the same, and I alternate driving them. They're old and well-maintained, so I can squeeze more value out of driving them than I could selling them.

I agree with all the advantages of minivans that people have listed here.

Kitsune

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 12:37:12 PM »
My colleague is raving about the benefits of her Mazda5 for her large family: she can fit 4 car seats in at a time, and the gas is much cheaper than a minivan. Might be an option, as long as you don't need cargo space in addition to car seat space!

CanuckExpat

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 01:09:32 AM »
For what it's worth, this site will tell you which car seats will fit three across the back for different makes and models: http://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/3-across-car-seat-guide-html/

Cyaphas

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2016, 01:48:54 AM »
For what it's worth, this site will tell you which car seats will fit three across the back for different makes and models: http://www.thecarcrashdetective.com/3-across-car-seat-guide-html/

That's a great site. There's a section on there covering best "bang for your buck" with modern safety features vehicles. Pretty cool. Thanks.

MayDay

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2016, 06:37:49 AM »
My colleague is raving about the benefits of her Mazda5 for her large family: she can fit 4 car seats in at a time, and the gas is much cheaper than a minivan. Might be an option, as long as you don't need cargo space in addition to car seat space!

We heavily researched these as they seem perfect for two kids.

Conclusion: back seat is tiny and if you have kids in carseats it is awful/impossible to get in and out of. Yet if your kids are out of carseats it is too tiny for anyone with legs.

Fuel economy was not great. Better than a van but not by much.

Third row did not feel safe to me- it's Right by the rear window.

If you use the third row, the trunk is utterly tiny.

It is a viable option if you have two kids. But we thought a Camry or accord was a better bargain for all areas except you can't occasionally carpool with2 extra kids, which the mazda5 can do.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2016, 11:04:11 PM »
If you are willing to consider vehicles for families, and not just cars there are options:
With six kids and no car, this mom does it all by bike


Regarding naming of this thread, see also discussion here: The Absurd Primacy of the American Automobile

Hopebewild

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2016, 11:16:02 PM »
My colleague is raving about the benefits of her Mazda5 for her large family: she can fit 4 car seats in at a time, and the gas is much cheaper than a minivan. Might be an option, as long as you don't need cargo space in addition to car seat space!

I was looking into this for my next vehicle because we are currently expecting our 4th child.  But they have discontinued it and I am having a hard time finding used ones for sale in my area.  I've been cramming my 3 kids in the back of my much loved Honda accord.  I wish they still made those big boat cars that sat four in the back!

And to the poster above me I loved the articles you posted.  Even as a kid I did not enjoy bike riding but it is my goal to get to where I bike to work 6months of the year.  I am a long way off tho. 

2Cent

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2016, 03:05:45 AM »
Usually you can put 2 car seats in the back of a normal car and sit in the middle yourself. Then you could put one seat on the front passenger seat.(with the airbag disabled of course).

Shane

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2016, 12:37:35 PM »
It's interesting how American families' expectations about vehicles seem to have inflated in the same way our thinking about housing has changed.

Throughout most of my childhood, my family (2 parents and 2 children) lived in a 2 bedroom, 1 bathroom house. At most, it was ~1000 sqft., which, at the time, seemed completely normal to us. We actually had a little more room than some of our friends who had more children and the same or smaller sized houses. Fast forward to 2016, and 4 people living in 1000 sqft., with only 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom, seems woefully inadequate, by most Americans' standards.

My family always had one big, old clunker car that was plenty large enough to fit the four of us. We could even fit most of the kids in the neighborhood, as well, when my parents used to drive us all to the pool in the summer time. This was before the days of car/booster seats for kids. If there were more kids than seat belts in the car, those of us with no seat belts just held on to one of the door handles or we were just wedged so tightly between the other kids who were buckled in that we didn't move around too much when we drove around bends or made abrupt stops.

As a child, it never occurred to me as being something strange, but my best friend's family, with 8 children, had only one car that I can remember, throughout our entire childhood, and it was a subcompact Chevy Chevette. This was in the 70's when small cars like that first started to appear in the U.S. I remember our neighbors bought one new ~1978. Looking back, now, I can see how that would be a pretty impractical vehicle for a family of 8 children and 2 adults. I guess the way they made it work was that they never went anywhere all at one time. If one of the kids had a doctor's appointment, one of the parents would drive him to his appointment and bring him back home. When they needed to go shopping, one or both of the adults would drive to the supermarket (leaving all 8 kids at home alone, gasp! Call CPS!), buy groceries and come back home. Of course, my friend's parents never drove him or any of his siblings to/from school. All of us walked both ways uphill to school everyday. :) Now that I think of it, the only time my friend ever left our neighborhood was when he went with me and my family when we took road trips to neighboring cities/states.

Not saying that the way we lived when I was a kid is preferable to the way we live now. Just making an observation about how our expectations about the size of our vehicles have inflated along with our perceptions of the appropriate size of our homes. Today, it would never occur to me to purchase a vehicle that wasn't big enough to transport my entire family all at one time, but I guess in the past people did what they had to do to survive. Today, probably people who can't afford to purchase minivans expect the government or a rich relative to provide them with one...  :)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 12:39:25 PM by Shane »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2016, 03:32:03 PM »
My family always had one big, old clunker car that was plenty large enough to fit the four of us. We could even fit most of the kids in the neighborhood, as well, when my parents used to drive us all to the pool in the summer time. This was before the days of car/booster seats for kids. If there were more kids than seat belts in the car, those of us with no seat belts just held on to one of the door handles or we were just wedged so tightly between the other kids who were buckled in that we didn't move around too much when we drove around bends or made abrupt stops.
While model bloat is a real thing, more stringent safety regulations (and heightened public perception of risk) have certainly increased the size of cars.  Along with, of course, the absolutely insane popularity of SUVs (and more recently crossovers) of all sizes.

MayDay

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2016, 04:29:14 AM »
I think some of it was lifestyle too. Families did not used to be so far flung. When I was a kid and we lived 2 and 3 hours from my whole entire extended family, if you had to smush all the kids in the car, no big deal.

Now I live 12 hours from my parents, 10 from my brother, etc. I'm not squishing us into the tiniest car possible for that. Plus, of course, car seats. 

I think you are right about the expectations changing. But this is an area that I'm very happy to consciously inflate my expectations in :)




MWOverlander

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 04:53:11 AM »
I like this topic.  We have a 2011 Kia Sorento (small SUV) and we are having our first child in 6 weeks.  We recently got our car seat (Chicco Key Fit 30 system) and discovered that it will only fit in the center of the rear seat while being comfortable for us to sit in the front.  I'm a larger person (6' tall, 280lbs), but I wouldn't be able to actually drive the car with the car seat behind the drivers seat.  This is a predicament as we'd like to have a second child in the next 1.5 years.  Upon reviews, it looks like our car seat is in line with other infant seats size, so changing up the car seat wouldn't have made a difference.

MayDay

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2016, 11:19:41 AM »
I like this topic.  We have a 2011 Kia Sorento (small SUV) and we are having our first child in 6 weeks.  We recently got our car seat (Chicco Key Fit 30 system) and discovered that it will only fit in the center of the rear seat while being comfortable for us to sit in the front.  I'm a larger person (6' tall, 280lbs), but I wouldn't be able to actually drive the car with the car seat behind the drivers seat.  This is a predicament as we'd like to have a second child in the next 1.5 years.  Upon reviews, it looks like our car seat is in line with other infant seats size, so changing up the car seat wouldn't have made a difference.

This is a common problem now as carseats get bigger to accommodate extended rear facing. SUV's are thought of as having more room, but if anything they have more up and down room. What you need is more back to front room.

Sometimes you can put the bigger kid on the passenger side and scoot the front passenger seat all the way up. Or for kud #2 get a smaller baby bucket and buy yourself an extra year.

acroy

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2016, 01:02:32 PM »
We grew out of the minivan and bought a 12 passenger van.
It, too, is fully awesome.

Nice feature of all vans is that they are invisible to cops.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2016, 01:32:51 PM »
We grew out of the minivan and bought a 12 passenger van.
It, too, is fully awesome.

Nice feature of all vans is that they are invisible to cops.

just bought a 03 e150, 7 seater. definately enough room for one of those 4 person benches in the back though. tons more room than the minivan(she still drives it). I should post some pics and details in my journal, it was quite the find.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2016, 01:36:21 PM »
3 kids.  2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L.  Specifically chosen for the space and the standard back-up camera while pregnant with kid #3.  Kept the Camry as the backup--possible to have 3 seats across in back but more difficult to do twice daily.

Frugal Lizard

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2016, 05:46:40 PM »
We bought a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan from a colleagues parents two years ago.  My car was done - too much rust to safety.  It was super cheap but well maintained.  It was a chance to see if I like minivan driving.  I seem to be the neighbourhood bus driver. It is great that I can take a pack of kids to girl guide camp, or skiing or track meet or soccer tournament and have one car instead of two or three.  And camping is so much more fun when I don`t have to pack everything just so precisely.  Much more fun for hubby and I if the kids each bring a friend if we are going exploring.  My husband prefers to take the van to hockey when he is driving son`s buddy as well.  The kid is over 6`and he is 14.  I work from home so most of the time so it doesn't get a lot of mileage on it.  Most of the mileage is actually at capacity hauling, between using it for dump runs, materials and carpooling kids.  Hopefully we can get a couple more years out of this baby and then we will most likely buy another used minivan.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2016, 06:57:02 PM »
We grew out of the minivan and bought a 12 passenger van.
It, too, is fully awesome.
I heartily agree.  I grew up the youngest in a big family, and my parents bought a 15 passenger van.  When I became the last kid at home, I got to drive it to school.  That van was AWESOME.  You could turn some of the bench seats backwards, too. 

skeeder

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2016, 02:04:02 PM »
When we went from 2 to 3, we bought a Sienna. 

Its a great vehicle.  It can tow 3500 pounts, plenty of cargo room...truly more bang for the buck than a truck.

dogboyslim

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2016, 03:41:12 PM »
3 kids.  1 minivan (2006 sienna), 1 SUV (1999 suburban).  Both were great in terms of space for car-seats.  Now we are down to 1 high-back booster so that isn't much of an issue anymore.  The Sienna is more fuel efficient, but suburban tows the sailboat and the Sienna won't cut it.  If you aren't towing anything, I'd stick with the minivan as it really is a great bang/buck vehicle.

serpentstooth

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2016, 04:01:13 PM »
We grew out of the minivan and bought a 12 passenger van.
It, too, is fully awesome.

Nice feature of all vans is that they are invisible to cops.

I aspire to a giant family. I was hoping to go with a minibus, though. IDK why. All the big families I know use the 12 and 15 passenger vans, but I thought a bus looked like way more fun. Nice center aisle, just open the door and the kids troop out, etc.

naners

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2016, 05:58:59 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

CanuckExpat

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2016, 09:36:55 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

serpentstooth

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2016, 10:07:10 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

Yup, but taxis aren't exempt from the laws of physics during accidents. The two times I've had to take my daughter in a cab without a carseat, they were some of the scariest moments of my life. But I was alone, it was 1 a.m., the carseat was in my parents' van in Connecticut and I had a very sick infant who had to go to the ER in Manhattan. I ended up getting an infant bucket seat to keep in our apartment for exactly this reason.

tobitonic

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2016, 07:55:51 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

These kinds of posts are why my signature is what it is.

serpentstooth

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2016, 08:08:45 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

These kinds of posts are why my signature is what it is.

YOU'RE Car Crash Detective! Huge fan! Thank you for the work you do! Your site is invaluable, as we were in an accident two weeks ago and are now in the market for a new seat.

tobitonic

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2016, 08:16:04 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

These kinds of posts are why my signature is what it is.

YOU'RE Car Crash Detective! Huge fan! Thank you for the work you do! Your site is invaluable, as we were in an accident two weeks ago and are now in the market for a new seat.

Oh lordy, no...I'm just a fan (although I'm glad you're safe and sound after your accident!). I'm actually a preschool teacher; I just made that my sig because I got tired of reading posts about how to save money with kids by quoting freakonomics claims that 2 year olds were fine with seat belts.

trashmanz

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2016, 10:16:45 PM »
I don't know why I'm even reading this thread since we live in NYC, are planning on only two kids and will probably never own a car while we're here. BUT: I have researched small/light car seats for the few occasions we will need one. For those of you having trouble fitting rear facing seats into your cars: check out the combi coccoro. I'm looking at it for the ease of use in cabs, but the Amazon reviews are full of happy small car owners who can fit it in their car.

Doesn't NY state exempt taxis from the car seat requirement?

These kinds of posts are why my signature is what it is.

YOU'RE Car Crash Detective! Huge fan! Thank you for the work you do! Your site is invaluable, as we were in an accident two weeks ago and are now in the market for a new seat.

Oh lordy, no...I'm just a fan (although I'm glad you're safe and sound after your accident!). I'm actually a preschool teacher; I just made that my sig because I got tired of reading posts about how to save money with kids by quoting freakonomics claims that 2 year olds were fine with seat belts.

People are too paranoid about this.  I agree with freakonomics that car seats, as currently built and used, donít work nearly as well as every parent, every cop, every emergency-room doctor would like to think that they work.  Everyone over 40 made it through life fine without car seats in every car.  More likely for kids to be hurt by guns or swimming pools for sure as a worthwhile cause to take up.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 10:18:30 PM by trashmanz »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2016, 05:32:25 AM »
People are too paranoid about this.  I agree with freakonomics that car seats, as currently built and used, donít work nearly as well as every parent, every cop, every emergency-room doctor would like to think that they work.  Everyone over 40 made it through life fine without car seats in every car.  More likely for kids to be hurt by guns or swimming pools for sure as a worthwhile cause to take up.
Actually, there are only about 700 drowning deaths for people under 14 each year in the US.  Child deaths in cars is about 3x that number.  Gun deaths in 2013 for 0-18: 1,670.  (bear in mind that this last number includes a larger age range, that the statistics skew heavily towards that upper age range, and that a big chunk of the upper-teenage gun deaths are *not* accidental, so it's a bit apples-and-oranges)

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2016, 07:14:56 AM »

People are too paranoid about this.  I agree with freakonomics that car seats, as currently built and used, donít work nearly as well as every parent, every cop, every emergency-room doctor would like to think that they work.  Everyone over 40 made it through life fine without car seats in every car.  More likely for kids to be hurt by guns or swimming pools for sure as a worthwhile cause to take up.
Emphasis mine

WOW - talk about selection bias. If a child died in an accident due to not having a car seat, they aren't going to be in your sample! Of course all the people who are okay are okay!
And you also need a definition of "fine" that excludes those who were injured or severely injured in accidents due to lack of car seats, many of them permanently.

VaCPA

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2016, 08:17:43 AM »
People are too paranoid about this.  I agree with freakonomics that car seats, as currently built and used, donít work nearly as well as every parent, every cop, every emergency-room doctor would like to think that they work.  Everyone over 40 made it through life fine without car seats in every car.  More likely for kids to be hurt by guns or swimming pools for sure as a worthwhile cause to take up.

That's crazy talk. We put our kids in cars daily, probably several times a day. We do it so much without incident I think people take for granted how dangerous it actually is. Put your kids in a carseat, and make sure it's a good one. I recommend Britax. Those things are built like goddamn tanks(steel frame).

While you're at it also teach your kids to swim and not play with guns.

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2016, 11:13:36 AM »
That's crazy talk. We put our kids in cars daily, probably several times a day. We do it so much without incident I think people take for granted how dangerous it actually is.

Here in lies the real safety problem.
I humbly propose that the car seat is a band aid on a bigger problem :)
See also: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/04/absurd-primacy-of-the-car-in-american-life/476346/

More apologetically, I made the original comment about the taxi carseat exemption in NY state, both to check if I was recalling correctly and verify that the person thinking of getting a car seat without owning a car knew about that exemption. I didn't mean to derail things too much.

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2016, 02:16:54 PM »
Good Thread!

We have 4 children at home and make due with a 2007 Sienna, it is quite comfortable with all the car seats, we have a roof box thing for vacations, it works great. I wish it had the option of a 4cyl engine though. The 2.7L they use in trucks would be more then adequate IMO, the V-6 in them is as powerful as many v-8's and gets sort of crappy mileage. What I have learned from Mr.MMM's blog is to be flexible in how you do things. Most times we are not all going somewhere together, so we don't need 2 mini vans or a mini van and an SUV.  If you truly need 2 vehicles, they need to do different jobs. Have 1 minivan, and a 4dr hatchback, that way whomever will be running around town or going on a trip can use the economical vehicle, we try to leave the minivan parked as much as possible. My son rides his back to school and I walk with him and push our 3yo in a jogging stroller. When we absolutely need the minivan we plan out every possible stop we would need ot make that week, groceries, mail, etc. and try to knock them all out in 1 trip.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2016, 02:27:44 PM »
Good Thread!

We have 4 children at home and make due with a 2007 Sienna, it is quite comfortable with all the car seats, we have a roof box thing for vacations, it works great. I wish it had the option of a 4cyl engine though. The 2.7L they use in trucks would be more then adequate IMO, the V-6 in them is as powerful as many v-8's and gets sort of crappy mileage. What I have learned from Mr.MMM's blog is to be flexible in how you do things. Most times we are not all going somewhere together, so we don't need 2 mini vans or a mini van and an SUV.  If you truly need 2 vehicles, they need to do different jobs. Have 1 minivan, and a 4dr hatchback, that way whomever will be running around town or going on a trip can use the economical vehicle, we try to leave the minivan parked as much as possible. My son rides his back to school and I walk with him and push our 3yo in a jogging stroller. When we absolutely need the minivan we plan out every possible stop we would need ot make that week, groceries, mail, etc. and try to knock them all out in 1 trip.
I'm curious--what takes up so much room that it doesn't fit in the cargo area in the back of the Sienna?  Those things have massive quantities of cargo space.

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2016, 02:32:14 PM »
Good Thread!

We have 4 children at home and make due with a 2007 Sienna, it is quite comfortable with all the car seats, we have a roof box thing for vacations, it works great. I wish it had the option of a 4cyl engine though. The 2.7L they use in trucks would be more then adequate IMO, the V-6 in them is as powerful as many v-8's and gets sort of crappy mileage. What I have learned from Mr.MMM's blog is to be flexible in how you do things. Most times we are not all going somewhere together, so we don't need 2 mini vans or a mini van and an SUV.  If you truly need 2 vehicles, they need to do different jobs. Have 1 minivan, and a 4dr hatchback, that way whomever will be running around town or going on a trip can use the economical vehicle, we try to leave the minivan parked as much as possible. My son rides his back to school and I walk with him and push our 3yo in a jogging stroller. When we absolutely need the minivan we plan out every possible stop we would need ot make that week, groceries, mail, etc. and try to knock them all out in 1 trip.
I'm curious--what takes up so much room that it doesn't fit in the cargo area in the back of the Sienna?  Those things have massive quantities of cargo space.

I'm assuming a Costco run worth of groceries for a family of 6 would be a tight squeeze, once you have the third row in. It would be in my mother's Chrysler Town and Country, anyway.

VaCPA

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2016, 02:49:40 PM »
Good Thread!

We have 4 children at home and make due with a 2007 Sienna, it is quite comfortable with all the car seats, we have a roof box thing for vacations, it works great. I wish it had the option of a 4cyl engine though. The 2.7L they use in trucks would be more then adequate IMO, the V-6 in them is as powerful as many v-8's and gets sort of crappy mileage. What I have learned from Mr.MMM's blog is to be flexible in how you do things. Most times we are not all going somewhere together, so we don't need 2 mini vans or a mini van and an SUV.  If you truly need 2 vehicles, they need to do different jobs. Have 1 minivan, and a 4dr hatchback, that way whomever will be running around town or going on a trip can use the economical vehicle, we try to leave the minivan parked as much as possible. My son rides his back to school and I walk with him and push our 3yo in a jogging stroller. When we absolutely need the minivan we plan out every possible stop we would need ot make that week, groceries, mail, etc. and try to knock them all out in 1 trip.
I'm curious--what takes up so much room that it doesn't fit in the cargo area in the back of the Sienna?  Those things have massive quantities of cargo space.

With 4 kids they aren't going to have as much room in that Sienna as most people. I know from personal experience beach vacations can involve bringing a lot of stuff(chairs, canopy, boogie boards) if the house you're staying at doesn't already have those items.

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2016, 04:58:20 PM »
Yeah for our quarterly trips to costco or vacations and things the back fills up pretty quickly with the assortment of things.  For vacations, we typically stay in vacation rentals, because hotels are over priced and don't serve a family of our size.  We often pack 5 or 6 of our dinners, frozen, so that all we have to do is actually cook them. Then we often times schedule our two vacations so they are near costco's, so we can get those two quarterly trips out of the way at the same time. Portable crib, a small bike or two, it just gets filled up, and honestly you have to get pretty creative to safely stack things in the Sienna, most of the storage space in the trunk is up and down based...

Most of the time the roof rack carrier thing is sitting in the garage. We dont need it of course for the local grocery store trips, but cosco is a big one. We get 3 months worth of lots of things there...

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #48 on: May 06, 2016, 09:01:58 PM »
Good Thread!

We have 4 children at home and make due with a 2007 Sienna, it is quite comfortable with all the car seats, we have a roof box thing for vacations, it works great. I wish it had the option of a 4cyl engine though. The 2.7L they use in trucks would be more then adequate IMO, the V-6 in them is as powerful as many v-8's and gets sort of crappy mileage. What I have learned from Mr.MMM's blog is to be flexible in how you do things. Most times we are not all going somewhere together, so we don't need 2 mini vans or a mini van and an SUV.  If you truly need 2 vehicles, they need to do different jobs. Have 1 minivan, and a 4dr hatchback, that way whomever will be running around town or going on a trip can use the economical vehicle, we try to leave the minivan parked as much as possible. My son rides his back to school and I walk with him and push our 3yo in a jogging stroller. When we absolutely need the minivan we plan out every possible stop we would need ot make that week, groceries, mail, etc. and try to knock them all out in 1 trip.
I'm curious--what takes up so much room that it doesn't fit in the cargo area in the back of the Sienna?  Those things have massive quantities of cargo space.

We have a Sienna, and while there is a generous amount of space behind the 3rd row compared to many vehicles, it can and does fill up. Double stroller, a few suitcases or backpacks, pack-n-play, bags of cloth diapers, and you're there. And as Fishinshawn noted, you need to pay attention to how you're packing, since you're dealing with vertical space (which is the case in every vehicle but cars, that have enclosed trunk space). We also have an Odyssey, and there isn't any more room there.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Cars for large families
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2016, 11:12:03 AM »
Interesting--we take our family of 8 on trips on our Odyssey, and we manage to fit everything in the back (and a little in front of the middle row, where the youngest sit) without too much difficulty.