Author Topic: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?  (Read 9831 times)

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3486
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2017, 09:40:18 PM »
Personally, I'd put the baby boy to bed in pink PJs and not think twice about it ... but for a big item like a coat that's going to be used daily for months, I'd go to the consignment shop and buy something more boy-oriented for about $5.  I'd rather dress a boy like a boy most of the time, but I don't go much for political correctness. 

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2226
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2018, 03:29:16 PM »
Reviving this thread as some friends had a baby on the weekend.

I grinned when they sent me a photo of their newborn daughter wrapped in a blue blanket.

They also contacted people personally, and asked everyone to keep it off social until they had finished letting people know.

The whole just came across as being big on love and low on fuss.

farmer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2018, 05:14:40 AM »
If cost is the problem then sell the pink one and buy a used one for boys.
How hard can that be?

asauer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 575
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2018, 10:22:38 AM »
Our two adopted kids (boy and girl) same age, wore each others clothes until they were 5.  Even then, they shared about 50% of clothing.  Solid colored shorts and jeans go both ways.  I didn't hear any judgement.  I stopped at 5 b/c they were growing at different rates.  Seriously, unless parents point it out, kids have no idea what they're wearing until kindergarten.

farmerj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2018, 09:54:16 AM »
... kids have no idea what they're wearing until kindergarten.

Me: "But it's a girl fire truck! Driven by princesses!"

2 year old daughter: "NO! Want dress."

As always with kids, your mileage will vary. As soon as she developed verbal abilities, my daughter rebelled against the cultural expectations of the patriarchy, ie her older brother, and was much less willing to play fighter jet with him 24x7, wear his cast-offs, etc.


katscratch

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 921
  • Location: Minnesota
    • Freedom From Scratch
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2018, 10:24:04 AM »
My kiddo also had strong preferences by 2. Cars and more cars and glitter and pink and purple :) At 19 he still likes cars and glitter and pink and purple. He and his long-time girlfriend often have matching nail polish and matching Converse high tops.

Now that my child is an adult and the years of having to explain conformity to a kindergartner are over, I have to admit that some of my favorite parenting moments have been when other adults make snarky comments about my kid's clothing or hair (he often has preferred long hair) then do a total turnaround once they get to know him. I've heard SO many times over the years, "I wasn't sure about him at first, I mean, you know, the way he looks/dresses, but he is the most polite and well-spoken kid my kid is friends with. He helped with the dishes! I can't even get my kids to do that!"

Yeah, funny thing, when you worry about how to help kids be better humans instead of worrying what freaking color they are wearing things turn out ok ;)

TVRodriguez

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 359
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2018, 12:15:52 PM »

Yeah, funny thing, when you worry about how to help kids be better humans instead of worrying what freaking color they are wearing things turn out ok ;)

Sweet.

My oldest son wore a water fairy costume to school for Halloween when he was five.  He had been planning to go as Darth Vader, but decided on the change that morning because "the mask is uncomfortable, Mom.  I'll just be a water fairy."  The fairy costume was plain blue, and it was montessori school, and the boys in his class had no issues with it.  The MOMS and the GIRLS, on the other hand, made it known that they were not happy with it.  I found that amusing.  His (boy) friends kept saying to the girls, "you know there are boy fairies--you've seen Tinkerbell's friends!"

clairebonk

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Location: Walnut Creek, CA
  • Off-and-on FIREing
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2018, 05:15:31 PM »
My preschooler (male) loves wearing dresses (handmedowns from older cousins).

His parents don't care.

His teachers don't care.

His grandmothers have put up a fight but have been shut down by feminist arguments (they wear pants which didn't used to be acceptable on women.)

If a parent or kid says something, I reply "it's not appropriate to discuss my child's genitalia". That shuts them down.

My son is learning not to care what anyone else thinks about what he is wearing. He is learning how to be comfortable in his own skin. He is learning it's okay to be himself. He is learning he will be loved nonmatter what he looks like.

He is learning how to love himself without letting others opinions of him get in the way.

I am very proud of him.



DS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Age: 117
  • Location: Universe
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2018, 08:12:48 AM »
My preschooler (male) loves wearing dresses (handmedowns from older cousins).

His parents don't care.

His teachers don't care.

His grandmothers have put up a fight but have been shut down by feminist arguments (they wear pants which didn't used to be acceptable on women.)

If a parent or kid says something, I reply "it's not appropriate to discuss my child's genitalia". That shuts them down.

My son is learning not to care what anyone else thinks about what he is wearing. He is learning how to be comfortable in his own skin. He is learning it's okay to be himself. He is learning he will be loved nonmatter what he looks like.

He is learning how to love himself without letting others opinions of him get in the way.

I am very proud of him.


This is fantastic! Dresses rock.

Mongoose

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2026
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2018, 03:23:45 PM »
My DS, 6, also dresses in pink frilly stuff at home and wears nailpolish whenever his sister gets hers painted. I've casually mentioned to him that some people may tease him for the nail polish and he doesn't care. The pink frilly stuff is costumes and we only wear them out of the house for Halloween so nobody has had the opportunity to comment on them yet. They wear whatever snow clothes are around. Currently DS is wearing a hand-me down teal coat that has a girls name on the tag inside...DD wore it last year as a hand me down from friends and DS decided to use it instead of us buying him one for this winter.

He is also in dance class and loves it. His sister did tell him boys don't dance when he said he wanted to take classes too. We showed them videos of Michael Flatley and Mikhail Baryshnikov (the first two male dancers who came to mind). Sister started encouraging little brother to dance too. Anyone who has commented on him dancing receives a very amusing education from my DS about how they are misinformed about dance. He's very unperturbed by others opinions, especially when he thinks they are illogical.

DS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Age: 117
  • Location: Universe
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2018, 03:52:39 PM »
My DS, 6, also dresses in pink frilly stuff at home and wears nailpolish whenever his sister gets hers painted. I've casually mentioned to him that some people may tease him for the nail polish and he doesn't care. The pink frilly stuff is costumes and we only wear them out of the house for Halloween so nobody has had the opportunity to comment on them yet. They wear whatever snow clothes are around. Currently DS is wearing a hand-me down teal coat that has a girls name on the tag inside...DD wore it last year as a hand me down from friends and DS decided to use it instead of us buying him one for this winter.

He is also in dance class and loves it. His sister did tell him boys don't dance when he said he wanted to take classes too. We showed them videos of Michael Flatley and Mikhail Baryshnikov (the first two male dancers who came to mind). Sister started encouraging little brother to dance too. Anyone who has commented on him dancing receives a very amusing education from my DS about how they are misinformed about dance. He's very unperturbed by others opinions, especially when he thinks they are illogical.

*Clap*

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11326
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2018, 08:24:54 AM »
My DS, 6, also dresses in pink frilly stuff at home and wears nailpolish whenever his sister gets hers painted. I've casually mentioned to him that some people may tease him for the nail polish and he doesn't care. The pink frilly stuff is costumes and we only wear them out of the house for Halloween so nobody has had the opportunity to comment on them yet. They wear whatever snow clothes are around. Currently DS is wearing a hand-me down teal coat that has a girls name on the tag inside...DD wore it last year as a hand me down from friends and DS decided to use it instead of us buying him one for this winter.

He is also in dance class and loves it. His sister did tell him boys don't dance when he said he wanted to take classes too. We showed them videos of Michael Flatley and Mikhail Baryshnikov (the first two male dancers who came to mind). Sister started encouraging little brother to dance too. Anyone who has commented on him dancing receives a very amusing education from my DS about how they are misinformed about dance. He's very unperturbed by others opinions, especially when he thinks they are illogical.

*Clap*

Bruce Lee was an accomplished dancer, and actually gave dance instruction to earn extra cash before becoming famous for martial arts.  Body control is body control whether you're doing a jeté entrelacé or a flying side kick.

Missy B

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 154
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2018, 12:59:20 PM »
Last month my 4 yr son wanted pink shoes (he picked pink converses) so I bought them for him for about $12 new. He wore them to school and told me this kid said pink is a girls color. My son said that his teacher had to talk to the kid. I am pretty sure that kind of attitude came from his parents.

FWIW, the blue and pink assignation to gender that everyone thinks is obvious and natural, was, earlier in our cultural history, reversed. Pink (which was considered a strong, vibrant color) was for boys, and blue (soft, delicate) was for girls. Then it got reversed.

Ladies' Home Journal article in June 1918 said, "The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl."

https://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys

So, completely arbitrary.

farmerj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 74
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2018, 08:51:13 AM »
Ladies' Home Journal article in June 1918 said, "The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl."

https://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys

So, completely arbitrary.

On the other hand...

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2017/07/02/boys-wear-pink-revisited/#.Wg8y3GhSw2w



Periodical data shows a different trend; much more balanced. But that data is much thinner, and newspapers/magazines are more likely to be attempting to sell someone on Hot New Trends. (Plus three year olds, boy and girl, wore dresses in the ninteenth century). I suspect someone really needs to delve into this, look at surviving outfits/pictures/paintings/diaries, etc.

DS

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
  • Age: 117
  • Location: Universe
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2018, 09:41:14 AM »
Last month my 4 yr son wanted pink shoes (he picked pink converses) so I bought them for him for about $12 new. He wore them to school and told me this kid said pink is a girls color. My son said that his teacher had to talk to the kid. I am pretty sure that kind of attitude came from his parents.

FWIW, the blue and pink assignation to gender that everyone thinks is obvious and natural, was, earlier in our cultural history, reversed. Pink (which was considered a strong, vibrant color) was for boys, and blue (soft, delicate) was for girls. Then it got reversed.

Ladies' Home Journal article in June 1918 said, "The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl."

https://jezebel.com/5790638/the-history-of-pink-for-girls-blue-for-boys

So, completely arbitrary.

Even if it was always one way it'd still be completely arbitrary.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6546
  • Location: United States
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2018, 10:09:17 AM »

He is also in dance class and loves it. His sister did tell him boys don't dance when he said he wanted to take classes too. We showed them videos of Michael Flatley and Mikhail Baryshnikov (the first two male dancers who came to mind). Sister started encouraging little brother to dance too. Anyone who has commented on him dancing receives a very amusing education from my DS about how they are misinformed about dance. He's very unperturbed by others opinions, especially when he thinks they are illogical.

If you want an "current" male ballet dancer check out Daniil Simkin. He's amazing, and very social media savy.

Or any of the guys from So You Think You Can Dance should be on youtube.

Cali

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 135
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2018, 11:09:52 AM »
I'm going to side with the DH here. In 14 years time that boy is going to look at those Facebook photos of himself dressed in pink and say "Mum, what were you thinking???"

As a female who wore her brother's ugly hand-me-down brown 70s pants in the neon 80s I can say with certainty, no, he won't. I was at an age to understand at that time and asked my mom why I had brown pants she said "You know how we're going to go skiing in January? We're saving money for that." Even at 7 I was fine with that.

The three year old doesn't care, dad cares. And dad only cares because of marketing. In our grandparents' time you wanted clothes that stood the test of time and saved money. Now it's all about selling as much junk as possible so they gender the heck out of everything and people judge 3yos. If I saw a 3yo wearing "girl clothes" I'd assume he had a sibling, just as I assume a girl wearing "boy clothes" has a sibling. Or maybe that's what they like to wear, he's 3. I'm just grateful when 3yos wear pants in public.


shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3616
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #67 on: March 19, 2018, 03:02:13 AM »
I'm going to side with the DH here. In 14 years time that boy is going to look at those Facebook photos of himself dressed in pink and say "Mum, what were you thinking???"

As a female who wore her brother's ugly hand-me-down brown 70s pants in the neon 80s I can say with certainty, no, he won't.

Well, I mean, he will, but that's because it will be fourteen years time and he'll be a teenager and fashion will have moved on, so WHATEVER you put him in now he'd be horrified. I look at photos of myself in primary school and wonder how that could ever have been considered an outfit, but that doesn't depend on whether the clothes were "gender appropriate", it's because it was the 1990s and I liked *ahem* bright colours. So the outcome is the same: put him in whatever the hell you like because he'll be horrified anyway.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1783
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #68 on: March 19, 2018, 09:40:40 AM »
A couple years ago when I was training for America Ninja Warrior, I went to the home of a fellow contender who had built a course in his backyard and invited anyone in the area to practice and play and workout there (not just hopefuls, but anyone at all, most people were just there for fun and socializing).

He was ex-military, currently working as a stationary mechanic.


His two kids, a boy and a girl, were out playing in the yard (both too small to use the course).

I can't remember the context, but I said something about the daughter to him (maybe he was looking for her, and I said she had gone inside).
He mentioned he had two sons.

I just made a crazy assumption because he was wearing a pink Disney style princess dress!  Well, I learned an important lesson about not making assumptions about people.

Our son is due in a few weeks, and we have mostly "boy" or neutral clothes, just because that's what we happen to have been given (big bags of hand-me-downs from family and clients), but some "girl" clothes mixed in too.  We plan to try to be even.  There is plenty of time for society to strengthen any natural tendencies toward self-gendering that may exist, there's no reason for us to make a point to accelerate the process.

historienne

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #69 on: March 19, 2018, 09:48:26 AM »
I realize the original dilemma that started this thread is now moot, but wanted to comment anyway, because we faced the exact same one.  Super "girly" pink flowered snowsuit on an 18 month-old boy.  Ours actually turns inside out to plain white, which I did a few times, but my husband challenged me on my reasons (ie - I was reinforcing gender roles in a way that I don't really believe in).  So we just put him in the pink flowery snowsuit all winter long.  A few strangers mistook him for a girl, but who cares?  No one said anything negative.  And he didn't care at all.  Don't get me wrong, he does care about his clothes, and sometimes in what seem like gendered ways.  He currently refuses to wear any shirt that doesn't have a truck on it.  Will only willingly take off a dirty shirt if I show him a new shirt that also has a truck on it.  But he didn't give a second thought to a flowery pink snowsuit.

okits

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6915
  • Location: Canada
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #70 on: March 19, 2018, 12:02:04 PM »
I realize the original dilemma that started this thread is now moot, but wanted to comment anyway, because we faced the exact same one.  Super "girly" pink flowered snowsuit on an 18 month-old boy.  Ours actually turns inside out to plain white, which I did a few times, but my husband challenged me on my reasons (ie - I was reinforcing gender roles in a way that I don't really believe in).  So we just put him in the pink flowery snowsuit all winter long.  A few strangers mistook him for a girl, but who cares?  No one said anything negative.  And he didn't care at all.  Don't get me wrong, he does care about his clothes, and sometimes in what seem like gendered ways.  He currently refuses to wear any shirt that doesn't have a truck on it.  Will only willingly take off a dirty shirt if I show him a new shirt that also has a truck on it.  But he didn't give a second thought to a flowery pink snowsuit.

Thank you, @historienne , it's interesting to hear how other parents are approaching this.  You and your DH are definitely less conforming than we are.  At home DS wears many of his sister's old shirts, pants, and pyjamas, but in public he is in almost entirely male-gendered (or not-obviously female-gendered) clothing (and we maintain shorter hair for him).  He actually hasn't expressed any clothing or hair preferences (favourite shirt, colour, etc.) yet so we have kind of defaulted to mainstream gendering in the absence of any preference shown by him.  He turns two in a few months, so maybe soon he will let us know what he likes and we can honour that (as long as it's weather appropriate and clean).

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3616
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #71 on: March 19, 2018, 04:00:27 PM »
Also, sometimes young children are dressed in standard gendered clothing for random reasons. 90% of what we have bought for our impending boy-baby is blue. Why? Because 90% of MY clothes are blue so why complicate laundry? It'll probably stay this way until he actually objects and expresses a preference for an alternative.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1783
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Boys wearing "girls" clothing - how much judgment is there, really?
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2018, 11:16:35 AM »
A fun relevant history lesson:
"a June 1918 article from the trade publication Earnshaw’s Infants’ Department said, “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.” ... In 1927, Time magazine printed a chart showing sex-appropriate colors for girls and boys according to leading U.S. stores. In Boston, Filene’s told parents to dress boys in pink. So did Best & Co. in New York City, Halle’s in Cleveland and Marshall Field in Chicago."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/when-did-girls-start-wearing-pink-1370097/