At what age can kids stay home alone during this pandemic (Both parents working)

[Cassie]

Sorry Laura generally you have good advice but now it’s horrible. OP this is the hill to die on. Hire someone. I would quit my job and suffer before I would put my kids in this position. Men generally don’t understand- sorry men-not sorry.  There’s less risk in hiring someone than leaving them alone.

[charis]

Sorry Laura generally you have good advice but now it’s horrible. OP this is the hill to die on. Hire someone. I would quit my job and suffer before I would put my kids in this position. Men generally don’t understand- sorry men-not sorry.  There’s less risk in hiring someone than leaving them alone.

No, Laura, still good advice.  Again, we had an 11 year babysitter and she was fantastic. But in this situation, if you can't bring a babysitter in, I'd have cameras and someone available to check in the kids every 1-2 hours - you, your husband, grandparents, neighbors. You can handle this without anyone quitting their job.

[Kathryn K.]

I agree with Cassie.  Leaving three kids that young alone together on an ongoing basis is too much. 

OP, I know from your previous posts that you and not your husband are the breadwinner in your family. Would your husband be covered by the Families First Coronavirus Relief Act (https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/pandemic/ffcra-questions) for caregiving leave? And too bad if he prefers to keep working, when you choose to be a father of three kids you don't always get to do what you want to do.

[BeanCounter]

there is a big difference between leaving three kids alone and one child alone. Siblings fight. Siblings also goof off and do stupid things that go badly. Just the other day my oldest got annoyed with my youngest pointing a nerf gun at him (he was being annoying) so he went to take the gun, ended up shoving him. Youngest was in socks, slipped on the hardwood and cracked his head on the fireplace. It happened in under a minute while my husband and I were working. It started out in good fun and ended badly. Can you imagine if we hadn't been home?

While it's certainly safer to leave one child alone because you don't have to worry about situations like the above. But it's INCREDIBLY lonely. Why would you want to put your child through that if there was ANY OTHER WAY. (I say this as an only child who had one working parent)

[Stashing Swiss-style]

I agree with BeanCounter. I have 3 kids and I know how quickly a fun "fight" can turn bad!  I am a huge believer in getting kids to be independent quickly, but 11, 8 and 6 is too young to be home alone for multiple hours.  I would not hesitate to find a student to come in and babysit (and get the kids actively doing stuff!).

[BeanCounter]

there is a big difference between leaving three kids alone and one child alone. Siblings fight. Siblings also goof off and do stupid things that go badly. Just the other day my oldest got annoyed with my youngest pointing a nerf gun at him (he was being annoying) so he went to take the gun, ended up shoving him. Youngest was in socks, slipped on the hardwood and cracked his head on the fireplace. It happened in under a minute while my husband and I were working. It started out in good fun and ended badly. Can you imagine if we hadn't been home?

While it's certainly safer to leave one child alone because you don't have to worry about situations like the above. But it's INCREDIBLY lonely. Why would you want to put your child through that if there was ANY OTHER WAY. (I say this as an only child who had one working parent)

I should have added, my kids are 11 and 7. They can cook for themselves. They do their own schoolwork without help. They are smart enough to not answer the door for a stranger etc. But they do stupid split second things like the above. They also make stupid choices like dance/run around the house while eating a hot dog. Which could end very badly. I dunno. YMMV. But not something I would want to risk.

[Kmp2]

There is no magical age where siblings suddenly get along. The question is only can they deal with the outcomes of their bad decisions. and in fact if there are no parents at home, some kids won't push the boundaries the same way because they know they have no one else to turn to.  11 is borderline for making this decision, some 11 year olds would have been ready to do this since they were 8 and some you wouldn't trust to hold a baby let alone babysit them. 

If you aren't home and something goes wrong, they have to deal with it. They learn resilience, and they have to own up to what happens. Being home doesn't prevent the accident, just like being away doesn't cause it... the risk really is pretty similar. I get that we have been socialized parenting to see children alone as being in WAY more risk than if we are home, but that's really not true and has more to do with our moral view of it than the actual risk involved. Choking for instance is silent, and unless you really are always still in the room when your gradeschool kids eat something the risk is pretty similar. People don't run looking for help when they are choking... they leave the room and hide because it's embarassing - so if you're expecting your choking kid to run in and interrupt your conference call... that's not what any first aider is taught.

I had a friend with a 15 and 11 year old... they didn't want to make themselves any of the food in the house. The 15 year old ordered in for himself... late in the afternoon they got into a fight and broke things. The fact that the 11 year old hadn't eaten all day was definitely a contributing factor. Of course the 15 year old should know better, and they do now - but this is part of the being left alone process.

Of note, just because I did't think my kids could be left alone at these ages, either because I don't think my 11 year old could handle it, or because I wasn't ready to feel responsible (or be publicly shamed) should something go wrong. Doesn't mean I would say NO ONE EVER should do this. Parenting is filled with personal decisions that fit or don't fit your family. This is just one example of something that's neither right nor wrong - it just depends...

And OP - you can always walk it back, this decision isn't permanent no matter which way you go.

[Laura33]

@Cassie -- I respect your opinion but disagree.  My thinking is more along the lines of @Kmp2.  There is no perfect solution, and particularly in these times, there is no decision that guarantees your family will be safe.  So IMO you should weigh the risks of leaving the kids on their own against the risks to the family of someone passing along Coronavirus and the potential damage that could cause.  And that decision is, by definition, highly individual.  For ex, in my situation, my county is currently a hotspot, and I have asthma, so there is no way on God's green earth I am bringing a stranger into my house right now; in addition, my kids (when they were those ages) were pretty responsible, had experience managing themselves on their own, and we have people in the neighborhood available if needed.  So on balance, the better option for us would have been to leave the kids at home.  OTOH, if I lived in an area that was currently lower-risk, if my kids weren't responsible, if we lived all by ourselves away from everyone, if we didn't have health problems in the family, or any number of other things, I'd make a different choice.

The only thing I object to is the concept that there is one right answer for everyone and every situation.   Would I ever forgive myself if I left my kids alone and one of them was seriously injured or even killed?  Of course not.  But would I ever forgive myself if I hired a babysitter and my kids or DH got very sick and needed to be hospitalized or died?  Nope.  Screwed then, too.  Or maybe I quit the job, and we end up losing the house and having to move, and I'm unemployed for months or years because we go into a huge Depression -- if that happens, then in retrospect, those risks I avoided will look really small, and I'll still be kicking myself for making the wrong call and screwing over my family's financial future.  Once again:  I'm screwed.

There is no such thing as "safe"; avoiding one risk inevitably brings on another.  So I figure all I can do is make the best decision I can, based on as objective as possible an analysis of the facts available to me at the time.  And then cross my fingers and hope it was the right one and the bad stuff doesn't happen.

(Note that this is probably also why I deal with anxiety and depression on a pretty regular basis:  I am highly aware that there is nothing I can do to ensure that my family is always safe, because bad shit can happen to anyone at any time, despite our best efforts.  I am equally aware that if I follow my inclinations to control everything in order to ensure their safety as best as I can, I will very likely do them long-term psychological harm and stunt their growth in necessary ways.  So I'm screwed either way.  And there is nothing more stressful than being responsible for something you cannot control, particularly when that "something" is the single-most important thing in your life.)     

[mm1970]

I'm going to lean towards Laura on this one.  I think in another thread (or this one?) Cassie said that siblings should never be required to babysit their younger siblings.  I consider that to be a very extreme opinion.

(I am the 8th of 9 children.  My older sisters definitely babysat.)

However, it really depends on the kid and kids.  Some siblings get along just fine. Some kids can feed themselves.  My kids aren't that independent as far as eating goes (laziness).  The teen can now make a few things but will mostly just eat granola bars if left to his own devices.

However, we've definitely had days off school where we worked and just packed them a cold lunch and left it in the fridge.  There are easy answers to how you feed yourself.

Like Laura, I had freedom as a kid.  I ran through the woods with my brother for hours at under-10.  I babysat others' kids at 11.  My mother started working twice a week when I was 11 or 12, and my brother was 2 years younger.  Let's say 12, because then my sister was 18 and working full time.  That meant 12 and 10 year olds at home alone after school and 2 full days a week in the summer.  We ate a lot of bologna sandwiches and fruit.

[former player]

I don't have much of an opinion on whether the kids would be safe, but what I haven't seen questioned much is: would they be happy?  Because if this is a time of loneliness and stress and resentment for them they will remember it probably all their lives.

[SomedayStache]

The ages of my children make this discussion not cut & dry.

2 years ago it would have obviously been a non starter.

2 years from now I wouldn't be worried.

The kids themselves are fine and happy - this is not a time of loneliness or stress for them (only for me!).

[Sibley]

This also doesn't have to be a one and done decision.

SomedayStache, you first posted on 4/16. It's currently the 22nd. You've had 4 workdays between now and then. What have you been doing? How has it been working? (you don't have to answer here.) Try something for a few days or a week and see how it goes. Make adjustments as necessary. You know your kids, you know how they're handling things. Let that guide you.

Odds are, they'll be fine. Make sure there's food in the house they can eat without a ton of prep. Make sure they can call if needed/call and check on them a few times. Hide the matches, just in case.

[Laura33]

I don't have much of an opinion on whether the kids would be safe, but what I haven't seen questioned much is: would they be happy?  Because if this is a time of loneliness and stress and resentment for them they will remember it probably all their lives.

Honestly, this is the least of my worries.  It's ok for kids to learn that it's not always about them, and that when times are hard, everyone has to pitch in and do things they don't particularly like so that the family can get by.  Lord knows I didn't like some of the choices my mom had to make.  And yet as an adult, I can understand why she made them and even laugh at my self-centeredness.

Obviously, if it's overwhelming for them and you have other options, you adjust.  Avoid as much misery as possible.  But if the choice comes down to (1) exposing your family to a serious disease; (2) quitting your job when you're the primary breadwinner by a longshot; or (3) the kids being kinda bored and unhappy for a few weeks -- well, there's at least one order of magnitude difference in those consequences.

[charis]

I was a latch key kid in elementary school with my younger sibling for about an hour after school. My mom called when we walking in the door and we watched after school cartoons and had a sandwich.  This was because we had to suddenly leave the care of a physically abusive in-home daycare. Everything is a risk assessment for a parent. The well vetted babysitter who was very familiar became less safe than a mile walk and an empty house.

There are obviously many more options than quitting your job or having your kids removed by cps.

What measures can you implement?  It's hard to give advice if we don't know that piece.

Can you do video monitoring and/or frequent video calls during the day? Can the grandparents come by daily for a walk with masks and social distancing? Your husband comes home for lunch. Can you go in an hour later? Is there a neighbor that can pop at some point and check on everyone through the window? Etc, etc

[LouLou]

The ages of my children make this discussion not cut & dry.

2 years ago it would have obviously been a non starter.

2 years from now I wouldn't be worried.

The kids themselves are fine and happy - this is not a time of loneliness or stress for them (only for me!).

I've been following this thread. This sums up the main difficulty.

It sounds like you are the main breadwinner and your job cannot truly be done remotely. In your shoes, I would do one of the following:

1) Husband takes leave to stay home with the kids.
2) Husband takes leave for a week or two while we find a babysitter who otherwise does not interact with anyone else. (Do you know a single empty-nester who is otherwise isolated?)
3) Set up a team of people who will check on the kids throughout the day. For example, neighbor A pops by at 11am, husband home for lunch at 1pm, neighbor B pops by at 3pm. When a neighbor pops by, all three kids come to the window and give a thumbs up. When neighbor sees the thumbs up, he or she leaves. If neighbor doesn't see that all three kids are good, neighbor enters home and checks on them. I would happily do this for a neighbor if I knew they were in your situation.

Normally I hate surveillance type products, but I would consider a ring doorbell and one of those video conference portals.

For the lunch situation, I would leave granola bars, fruit, and other things like that for them to eat. Dad can handle hot food when he comes home for lunch.

[CrustyBadger]

The ages of my children make this discussion not cut & dry.

2 years ago it would have obviously been a non starter.

2 years from now I wouldn't be worried.

The kids themselves are fine and happy - this is not a time of loneliness or stress for them (only for me!).

I think you are exactly right.  It's not just the age of your oldest child, but the age of your youngest child that is important here.

The 6 year old is too young to be home without someone over 13 in my opinion.  In two years your oldest would be 13 and your youngest would be 8.   Leaving them home alone for 6 hours a day wouldn't be as big a deal in this case.

IMO (and it is the law where I live in MD) you need to be 13 years old to care for someone who is under the age of 8.  You need to be 8 to stay at home without someone over 13.  While there could be some wiggle room here or there (a very responsible 12.5 year old, a very well behaved, mature, 7 year old, or for just one or two hours with strict rules and schedule) to expect a child who is only 11 to be responsible for two kids (one of whom is only 6)  for six + hours or more a day... for weeks... really isn't a good situation.

I'm sorry because I know this is a difficult situation.  But I do think looking for a sitter is necessary, unless you can find some kind of "essential worker" daycare situation for your 6 year old.   Then, the 11 and 8 year old could stay home on their own, I think (still a sitter would be better).

[Shane]

Last night at dinner, I explained OP's scenario to our 11 year old daughter and asked what she thought. Without any hesitation, the first question out of her mouth was, "Is the 11 year old a boy or a girl?" I told her I didn't know and asked why that would matter. To which she said, "If the 11 year old is a girl, it's fine. If the 11 year old is a boy, I wouldn't leave them home alone." When asked to explain, she said, "11 year old girls are a lot more mature than 11 year old boys." YMMV.

[EricEng]

Sorry Laura generally you have good advice but now it’s horrible. OP this is the hill to die on. Hire someone. I would quit my job and suffer before I would put my kids in this position. Men generally don’t understand- sorry men-not sorry.  There’s less risk in hiring someone than leaving them alone.

I liked Laura's advice and thought it was spot on.

It depends on the child and how you have been raising them up until now.  If they are used to being independent and responsible you should be fine putting the 11 year old in charge.  In Japan it is common for kindergarten and up students to walk themselves to school and come home to an empty home alone.  If you teach kids to be responsible they will develop.  If you never expect them to grow up, then you end up with 20 somethings that still haven't learned to be independent.

I personally had the run of the neighborhood on my bike from the age of 5 onward by myself and with friends.  They stopped worrying about a babysitter during daylight hours after age 9 and overnight at age 11.  Well predating cell phones and gps tracking which make this even easier and safer.

[SomedayStache]

It has been very interesting to read the wide array of responses here. If nothing else this helps shed some light on the differing views held by my husband and I.

[mm1970]

Sorry Laura generally you have good advice but now it’s horrible. OP this is the hill to die on. Hire someone. I would quit my job and suffer before I would put my kids in this position. Men generally don’t understand- sorry men-not sorry.  There’s less risk in hiring someone than leaving them alone.

I liked Laura's advice and thought it was spot on.

It depends on the child and how you have been raising them up until now.  If they are used to being independent and responsible you should be fine putting the 11 year old in charge.  In Japan it is common for kindergarten and up students to walk themselves to school and come home to an empty home alone.  If you teach kids to be responsible they will develop.  If you never expect them to grow up, then you end up with 20 somethings that still haven't learned to be independent.

I personally had the run of the neighborhood on my bike from the age of 5 onward by myself and with friends.  They stopped worrying about a babysitter during daylight hours after age 9 and overnight at age 11.  Well predating cell phones and gps tracking which make this even easier and safer.

This was also a good point.  My husband walked himself to kindergarten and back 2x a day (he went home for lunch).  It was between 1/2 mile and a mile each way.  He walked by himself.  Except for that one winter day when the teacher gave him a form that "Has to go to your mother.  Do not lose it!" that she didn't put in his backpack, so he carried it in his mittens, and it blew INTO THE STREET.  Then of course, he went to get it. 

We are all just supremely lucky that the car coming down the street was a police car, who stopped and took him home.

I would never have let my kids walk to school in kindergarten.  Different times, different neighborhood, more traffic.  In fact, my older son was in 6th grade (11/12) before I let him walk home from school with other kids (again, traffic, and part of the road with no sidewalk).  Right now, said child (14) and his parents are in a tug-of-war, trying to get him to stop being a lazy ass and learn how to feed himself.

[PoutineLover]

I used to walk to and from school by myself starting at age 7, it was about half a mile and not much traffic. I usually wasn't home too long after school at first, but within a few years I learned how to start dinner. It really depends on the kids, some are definitely more trustworthy and responsible than others. Have you been able to find a good solution?

[Laserjet3051]

Unfortunately, my 11 year old has to stay home alone all day everyday (m-f) during the pandemic. to make natters worse, she has nobody during the day at home to help her with "online" school and is thus languishing, in many ways. Safety wise she is probably ok, its the psychological, emotional, and isolation toll Im more worried about.

[CrustyBadger]

@Laserjet3051

Have you let her teacher(s) at school know that your daughter is on her own for school help?  I'm only asking because I am a teacher, and at least at our schools we are trying to reach out to such students and provide them extra support, *if* we know it is needed.  For example if I know a student is supposed to attend a schedule Zoom lesson with her 4th grade teacher and she doesn't show up I might actually call her and see what is up and why she isn't online.  I wont do that for all my students, but if I know there's no parent or babysitter at home I'm happy to do it.

[Cooper62]

Hire a college student to babysit.  I have a college student that is looking for a family like yours to babysit for.  She lost her summer internship and wants to work but not on the front lines since she has asthma.  I understand not wanting to bring in more risk with a babysitter but you may be able to minimize it with someone like my daughter.  She is not going anywhere and I'm working from home, husband furloughed.  We rarely go out and if we do it is to get groceries and we wear masks and try to shop mainly at Costco where everyone is required to wear a mask.  Maybe you could find someone like her with a family that is following social distancing guidelines.

[MissPeach]

This is my fear OP. I'm a single parent and my job is saying tentatively they are calling us back in September but schools aren't opening here. I have no family in the area and have no idea how I'm going to work and keep kiddo in school. Mine is only one and slightly older so it's possible for them to stay home. Plus I'm at a new job so I don't have the pull and history of performance I used to have at my old one.

I've been sort of preparing kiddo by tackling things they would need to do like making them make their own breakfast, snacks, and lunches along with cleanup while I'm WFH. That way I can stop anything major (questions like 'Can I put metal in the microwave?') but kiddo is now proficient in making several meals alone.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

@MissPeach - sounds like you're doing what you can to prepare. Do you have a trusted neighbor who can drop by a couple of times/day? Our neighborhood is big with retired people walking their dogs. In a pinch, I could have neighbors rotate by our house during dog walking, ring the doorbell, & ensure kiddo was okay.

[MissPeach]

@MaybeBabyMustache  I don't really know/trust my neighbors at the moment. I have some motion censored cameras and am only a few minutes away though. That was one of the benefits of taking my new job. I have a few friends I trust that I know would drop in or even watch kiddo but most are in a higher risk pool so with the pandemic raging on it's not something I can rely on right now.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

So sorry to hear that's not an option. Fingers crossed that you are able to build (socially distanced) connections with your neighbors. Such a hard challenge right now.