Author Topic: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?  (Read 13030 times)

sjc0816

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Our 11 year old son has always had one "cupped" ear. Meaning, one of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.

I've always had it in the back of my head, that if he ever asked us to have it fixed, that we would seriously consider it.....and that has happened this year in 6th grade. Kids are always asking him about it and some jackasses have started making fun of him about it. He actually has a pretty good attitude about it....he's a very confident kid. But he wants to get it fixed.

Our consultation is next month with a facial plastic surgeon that came recommended by a general surgeon friend of mine. This surgery will run around 5k - and obviously being purely cosmetic will be totally OOP. We have the money and it won't change any financial goals or plans. But it's a LOT of money...and it seems....well, maybe superficial?  I'm struggling with it even though my gut is telling me that now is the time to fix it - he's going to junior high next year.

Does anyone have opinions on this? I'd love to hear all thoughts.

Jrr85

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 01:24:37 PM »
Our 11 year old son has always had one "cupped" ear. Meaning, one of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.

I've always had it in the back of my head, that if he ever asked us to have it fixed, that we would seriously consider it.....and that has happened this year in 6th grade. Kids are always asking him about it and some jackasses have started making fun of him about it. He actually has a pretty good attitude about it....he's a very confident kid. But he wants to get it fixed.

Our consultation is next month with a facial plastic surgeon that came recommended by a general surgeon friend of mine. This surgery will run around 5k - and obviously being purely cosmetic will be totally OOP. We have the money and it won't change any financial goals or plans. But it's a LOT of money...and it seems....well, maybe superficial?  I'm struggling with it even though my gut is telling me that now is the time to fix it - he's going to junior high next year.

Does anyone have opinions on this? I'd love to hear all thoughts.

There will be plenty of things for him to worry about in Jr. High and high school and plenty of things for him to be insecure about.  It's not going to emotionally cripple him if he has this one particular reason for insecurity addressed. 

I would not let a kid get cosmetic surgery just because they didn't like a particular feature, but if it's not just a typical variation of a feature and something that truly stands out and bothers him, I wouldn't hesitate to do it if the financial part didn't matter. 

TrMama

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 01:32:41 PM »
I wouldn't have a problem with that, and would likely do the same thing for my child. I see fixing an asymmetry as the same as fixing a child's crooked teeth with braces. Not strictly necessary, but is very likely to improve the child's opportunities, pay, self esteem, etc over his entire life.

Note that I'd feel differently if my child asked me for a non-corrective plastic surgery, such as making a big nose smaller, or getting breast implants.

LifeHappens

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 01:46:07 PM »
What you are talking about is correcting a (minor) deformity. We're lucky to live in a time where this is possible, safe and affordable. I would absolutely pay for this if your child is asking for it.

Abe

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 01:54:40 PM »
I would get another consult just to get two opinions from plastic surgeons. Also make sure the surgeons you see have experience in head and neck reconstruction, specifically for children. Many community plastic surgeons have limited experience with ear reconstruction since it's rarely needed in adults (generally when we wedge out a skin cancer of the ear, for example, we usually sew the edges together and it looks fine). The ear cartilage is pretty unforgiving, so it needs to be done right the first time.

mxt0133

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 02:36:08 PM »
Before you go and actually have the medical procedure done, I would look up what could go wrong and the chances of it going wrong.  It will be difficult to get accurate statistics but at least be informed on what complication might occur.

I unfortunately am very jaded with any medical procedures within the medical industrial complex, based on my experiences.  I question everything they recommend and do not blindly trust what they recommend is in my family's best interest.

After reading this my confidence in the medical profession continues to degrade:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/02/medicare-certified-surgery-centers-safety-deaths/363172002/

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 02:40:18 PM »
My biggest questions are just around what happens as he grows. Will it grow typically? Or is it better to wait and have the surgery once he's fully grown? Depending on what the doctor says, (and I might get a second opinion on that), I think it's a pretty reasonable thing. Also, I think it's wonderful you waited until *he* was the one to bring it up. It really sounds like you're weighing the reasons here for the "right" reasons, and that is awesome to see.

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 03:10:49 PM »
We're in a similar situation with my stepdaughter (age 10) - her earlobe is shaped very funny, and when it finally bothers her, we'll get it fixed.  So far, she says it doesn't, but I noticed she hides it with her hair.

If she approaches us, we'll pay the money to get it fixed.  Because we can afford it, and because it will probably improve her long-term quality of life.

Question - when did you start bringing this up with your son?  I don't think anyone has talked to my stepdaughter about her ear since she was 4 or 5.  I don't want to make her self-conscious by bringing it up now, but I do want her to know it is an option if it bothers her.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 03:17:30 PM »
Our 11 year old son has always had one "cupped" ear. Meaning, one of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.

I've always had it in the back of my head, that if he ever asked us to have it fixed, that we would seriously consider it.....and that has happened this year in 6th grade. Kids are always asking him about it and some jackasses have started making fun of him about it. He actually has a pretty good attitude about it....he's a very confident kid. But he wants to get it fixed.

Our consultation is next month with a facial plastic surgeon that came recommended by a general surgeon friend of mine. This surgery will run around 5k - and obviously being purely cosmetic will be totally OOP. We have the money and it won't change any financial goals or plans. But it's a LOT of money...and it seems....well, maybe superficial?  I'm struggling with it even though my gut is telling me that now is the time to fix it - he's going to junior high next year.

Does anyone have opinions on this? I'd love to hear all thoughts.

OP, why are you questioning yourself?

- You say you always had this as a possibility in the back of your mind.
- He is asking for it.
- You have the money.

To this day, I periodically thank my parents for getting me braces as a teenager. It was not cheap (it also involved oral surgery), but it was life-changing for me.

sjc0816

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 03:18:04 PM »
We're in a similar situation with my stepdaughter (age 10) - her earlobe is shaped very funny, and when it finally bothers her, we'll get it fixed.  So far, she says it doesn't, but I noticed she hides it with her hair.

If she approaches us, we'll pay the money to get it fixed.  Because we can afford it, and because it will probably improve her long-term quality of life.

Question - when did you start bringing this up with your son?  I don't think anyone has talked to my stepdaughter about her ear since she was 4 or 5.  I don't want to make her self-conscious by bringing it up now, but I do want her to know it is an option if it bothers her.

We actually never brought it up to him. It has never been discussed until this year.....when he told me that several of his friends asked him "why are your ears different?" And he asked us why they are different. We told him that it was likely a developmental deformity in utero. A couple of months later he told us that a couple of kids were telling him how stupid it looks, etc. That's when I told him that we can have it corrected if he wants to...and he immediately said "YES, please can we fix it?" That was just a few weeks ago, honestly. And I moved pretty fast on getting a consult. I'm thinking we will probably have it done this summer when baseball season is over.

I've done a lot of research and it seems like a pretty simple surgery...but of course, anxious for the consultation to see what all will be involved.

sjc0816

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 03:20:21 PM »
Our 11 year old son has always had one "cupped" ear. Meaning, one of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.

I've always had it in the back of my head, that if he ever asked us to have it fixed, that we would seriously consider it.....and that has happened this year in 6th grade. Kids are always asking him about it and some jackasses have started making fun of him about it. He actually has a pretty good attitude about it....he's a very confident kid. But he wants to get it fixed.

Our consultation is next month with a facial plastic surgeon that came recommended by a general surgeon friend of mine. This surgery will run around 5k - and obviously being purely cosmetic will be totally OOP. We have the money and it won't change any financial goals or plans. But it's a LOT of money...and it seems....well, maybe superficial?  I'm struggling with it even though my gut is telling me that now is the time to fix it - he's going to junior high next year.

Does anyone have opinions on this? I'd love to hear all thoughts.

OP, why are you questioning yourself?

- You say you always had this as a possibility in the back of your mind.
- He is asking for it.
- You have the money.

To this day, I periodically thank my parents for getting me braces as a teenager. It was not cheap (it also involved oral surgery), but it was life-changing for me.

I only question myself because any surgery has its risks...and I have some guilt doing this for purely aesthetic purposes. Part of me wonders if I should have more of the attitude that no one is physically perfect and he's fine the way he is. But, my instincts tell me that for his confidence....entering into some challenging years, it will be well worth it.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 03:29:28 PM »
I only question myself because any surgery has its risks...and I have some guilt doing this for purely aesthetic purposes. Part of me wonders if I should have more of the attitude that no one is physically perfect and he's fine the way he is. But, my instincts tell me that for his confidence....entering into some challenging years, it will be well worth it.

Good point about the risks...that's fair.

I was just going to suggest that you have him "sleep on it" for a month and bring it up again. Re-reading your original post, I see that your surgical consult is next month, so that could be perfect timing...you both get another month to think about it. If it's still important to him, I would have to vote for getting it done. Being a teenager is hard enough.

Would this involve general anesthesia or local? If local, that eliminates at least some of the risk.

shawndoggy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 03:53:08 PM »
I'd do it.

Don't let him wrestle in HS.  ;-)

Pigeon

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2018, 07:39:00 PM »
I'd do it.

middo

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 07:47:24 PM »
Do it.

lizi

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 08:16:43 PM »
I was born with "bat ears" (yes, that's the terrible but official medical term), ie ears that stick straight out from the head without any folds. Starting from about age 9 I was teased by my peers, not really mercilessly but still given names like "Dumbo" etc. I think my parents had the same attitude as you do, where they never brought it up as an option, but when I talked about the teasing and getting my ears corrected they acted on it. I had the operation done between primary and secondary schools, so when I was 12. The idea behind that timing was that I would be starting a new school and so fewer people would notice I'd had the surgery done.

Everything went smoothly and I now have normal ears, no one can tell they're corrected unless I bring it up and point out the shape. I'm not a superficial person, but I do think my life would have been (mildly) affected if I hadn't had the surgery. For instance, I now wear my hair super short and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do that if I still had ears that stuck out.

I really think you have done the right thing by waiting for him to bring it up, and his immediate, positive reaction to knowing there is an option to fix his ear means a lot.

badger1988

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 10:43:23 PM »
I'll start by acknowledging that I don't know enough about your son's circumstances to say what I would do if I were in your shoes, but wanted to add an opinion that isn't in line with the overwhelming majority here.

Based on your description, it sounds like I have the same ear "deformity" that your son has. When I was in middle school, I was definitely self-conscious about it, and there were plenty of kids that made fun of me about it. My response was usually just to acknowledge that they were right, my ears were different. By the time high school rolled around, most of the kids had it out of their system and were bored with my reaction so it wasn't a big deal to me. At that point, it became more of a screening tool for me...a way to quickly identify kids who were really superficial. There are kids out there that are just mean kids. You can fix one thing, but if they feel threatened by you or are looking for a way to deflect attention from their own insecurities, they will find something else to bully you about. My personal experience is that it probably helped to build some character and boost my confidence in the long run. There were definitely days up through about my freshman year of college that the thoughts of getting it "fixed" crossed my mind, but I never said anything to my parents. Looking back I'm glad my parents never gave me the option, because there's a good chance I would have taken it. Not in the sense that I would have regretted it...more in the sense that it would have just been meaningless. As an adult I don't ever think about it...it has no effect on my day to day life.

The perspective that these are the things that make us unique is especially interesting to me now. I have a set of 2.5 year old twin boys. They are identical twins, and its always amazing to me how similar they really are...physically, developmentally, emotionally, personality...they truly are two peas in a pod. Often times, the only way we can quickly tell them apart is by looking at their ears. One has symmetric ears that stick out more than the others. The other has one ear that looks smaller and has a fold at the top. As a parent, if one of them were to ask me to get a surgery to reshape their ear(s), I would most likely find an encouraging way to say no. If he insisted, I might offer the cash equivalent as an alternative to see how important it really is to him (I'm about 30% serious there). I'm sure there are circumstances that could change my opinion, and maybe your sons fall in that category. You seem like a parent who will make a reasonable decision.

Trifle

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2018, 03:12:47 AM »
OP, if the risks were low I would absolutely do it for my child.  No question at all. 

A440

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2018, 10:50:11 PM »
I would look into whether this could be considered a congenital defect, because I think you could at least use FSA or HSA money for it. 
But even if not, I would like do it for my child, if it bothered him/her.

PBandJelli

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2018, 04:07:06 PM »
You're correcting a deformation/asymmetry as others have said.  You can afford it; it bothers your son. Do it.  You'll regret not doing it later.

For what it's worth: Others are saying he'll learn to live and get through junior/high/life with this minor imperfection.  This is true, but think of how much better his life will be if he is redirecting that anxiety and attention to achieving his goals?  It's 5k.  I'd venture to guess, that even as a Mustachian, you've spent more on things of much less value.

Mr. Green

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 12:12:41 PM »
How would this be any different than braces? Many people get their kid's teeth fixed even though there's no medical need for it. The reality is that we live in a society where we are prejudged frequently by our appearance. If you have the means and it would allow your son to feel better about his appearance and acceptance, then go for it. I'd do it in a heartbeat for my kid if I knew the procedure was safe and effective.

moof

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 12:26:53 PM »
From what you describe I would do it without hesitation.

Distshore

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2018, 02:01:01 PM »
My parents did my bat ears when I was 4, and that’s a lot of years ago.  I’m eternally grateful.  There is enough to be picked on without that, and the bullying can really drive a sensitive kid into some dark places. Life is tough enough when you’re a teen already.

acroy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 02:20:03 PM »
Nope, it is a minor cosmetic imperfection and an opportunity for your child to learn how to handle a little adversity in life. He can have it corrected if he wants when an adult. My folks held off doing such things for us (moles, teeth etc, cosmetic only, no health risks) and it was a good lesson for us, and I will do the same for mine.

Don't deny your child the opportunity of a little personal growth & strength.

Kyle B

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 02:36:55 PM »
I'd get it done, the way you'd get him braces for buck teeth.

A much better use of five grand than FIREing a couple weeks earlier.

asauer

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 03:26:17 PM »
This isn’t advice for whether or not to do it but something to think about and an anecdotal experience.  Remember that at age 11, your son’s body will still experience significant changes.  I recommend asking the doctor what the risks are regarding having the surgery reverse or changing over time.  Additionally I have a minor deformity that I was teased quite a bit for in middle school (started in 5th grade actually.  I did have it fixed.  However, the teasing didn’t stop.  Even through the grades, and student turnover, there was always someone who remembered what used to be “wrong” with me.  I don’t want to dissuade you from getting surgery, just be aware that it won’t necessarily stop asshole kids from being assholes. 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 03:46:55 PM »
This isn’t advice for whether or not to do it but something to think about and an anecdotal experience.  Remember that at age 11, your son’s body will still experience significant changes.  I recommend asking the doctor what the risks are regarding having the surgery reverse or changing over time.  Additionally I have a minor deformity that I was teased quite a bit for in middle school (started in 5th grade actually.  I did have it fixed.  However, the teasing didn’t stop.  Even through the grades, and student turnover, there was always someone who remembered what used to be “wrong” with me.  I don’t want to dissuade you from getting surgery, just be aware that it won’t necessarily stop asshole kids from being assholes.

That's true, unfortunately. I still got flack from some kids for my terrible buck teeth and overbite even after we had them corrected. Some people are just assholes =) Plain and simple.

Missy B

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 12:49:00 PM »
We're in a similar situation with my stepdaughter (age 10) - her earlobe is shaped very funny, and when it finally bothers her, we'll get it fixed.  So far, she says it doesn't, but I noticed she hides it with her hair.

If she approaches us, we'll pay the money to get it fixed.  Because we can afford it, and because it will probably improve her long-term quality of life.

Question - when did you start bringing this up with your son?  I don't think anyone has talked to my stepdaughter about her ear since she was 4 or 5.  I don't want to make her self-conscious by bringing it up now, but I do want her to know it is an option if it bothers her.

We actually never brought it up to him. It has never been discussed until this year.....when he told me that several of his friends asked him "why are your ears different?" And he asked us why they are different. We told him that it was likely a developmental deformity in utero. A couple of months later he told us that a couple of kids were telling him how stupid it looks, etc. That's when I told him that we can have it corrected if he wants to...and he immediately said "YES, please can we fix it?" That was just a few weeks ago, honestly. And I moved pretty fast on getting a consult. I'm thinking we will probably have it done this summer when baseball season is over.

I've done a lot of research and it seems like a pretty simple surgery...but of course, anxious for the consultation to see what all will be involved.

I agree with everyone else who said this is worth doing and a good use of funds.
It occurred to me, though, that if the other kids hadn't been little sh*ts and telling him it looked stupid, it wouldn't matter to him at all.

MDfive21

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2018, 08:25:27 AM »
another vote to do it.  you'd spend $5k or more on braces if his front tooth was sideways, so what's the difference?

Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 04:46:45 PM »
One of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.
b]and it seems....well, maybe superficial?[/b] 

Question:  Is his hearing affected because of his "cupped" ear?  Answer: No.
Your question/comment: It feels superficial?  Answer: That's because it is!

I'm pissed that so many people here buy into the thought that certain things make us physically defective.  That's absurd.   It's only a "defect" because the donkies of there (and society) says its a defect.  If his hearing is fine, why is his ear considered defective.  Blimey!   How shallow has our society become?!  Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?  (Now if the shape of his ear affected his hearing, this is a totally different conversation.)  Everyone is unique!  Don't let the uniqueness be a burden.  Tell your son that the human body is the most remarkable thing on planet earth, and that includes his!  Its only a problem if he sees it as a problem.  Why do you care about what others say?!  Why should he care what others think/say?!  There are people out there that will want to spend time with your son, regardless of what his ear looks like.  Those are the people he should be friends with and spending most of his time with anyways. 
Why should someone give a flying puck whether or not an ear is shaped different than the other one!  As a couple others have hinted at...  let him grow some character (and balls) in dealing with his body the way it is.    Beauty isn't skin deep - beauty is found on the inside.

(Edited to remove unnecessary/unwholesome language.)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 05:13:14 PM by Beard N Bones »

middo

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2018, 09:15:17 PM »
One of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.
b]and it seems....well, maybe superficial?[/b] 

Question:  Is his hearing affected because of his "cupped" ear?  Answer: No.
Your question/comment: It feels superficial?  Answer: That's because it is!

I'm pissed that so many people here buy into the thought that certain things make us physically defective.  That's absurd.   It's only a "defect" because the donkies of there (and society) says its a defect.  If his hearing is fine, why is his ear considered defective.  Blimey!   How shallow has our society become?!  Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?  (Now if the shape of his ear affected his hearing, this is a totally different conversation.)  Everyone is unique!  Don't let the uniqueness be a burden.  Tell your son that the human body is the most remarkable thing on planet earth, and that includes his!  Its only a problem if he sees it as a problem.  Why do you care about what others say?!  Why should he care what others think/say?!  There are people out there that will want to spend time with your son, regardless of what his ear looks like.  Those are the people he should be friends with and spending most of his time with anyways. 
Why should someone give a flying puck whether or not an ear is shaped different than the other one!  As a couple others have hinted at...  let him grow some character (and balls) in dealing with his body the way it is.    Beauty isn't skin deep - beauty is found on the inside.

(Edited to remove unnecessary/unwholesome language.)

On one level I agree with this sentiment.  Society is wrong.

But trying to explain to a kid that he is being teased and made to feel inferior for the rest of his life (as teasing in the formative years can take decades to get over) because society is wrong, doesn't change how the kid feels.  My best friend in primary school had his ears pinned back between primary and high school.  It made the world of difference to him, and when I mentioned it to him in his 20's, he said he would do it for his kids if he passes on the non-folded sticky out ears.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2018, 08:39:46 AM »
One of his ears (the top) is cupped downward....creating an illusion that the ear is much smaller and lower than the other.
b]and it seems....well, maybe superficial?[/b] 

Question:  Is his hearing affected because of his "cupped" ear?  Answer: No.
Your question/comment: It feels superficial?  Answer: That's because it is!

I'm pissed that so many people here buy into the thought that certain things make us physically defective.  That's absurd.   It's only a "defect" because the donkies of there (and society) says its a defect.  If his hearing is fine, why is his ear considered defective.  Blimey!   How shallow has our society become?!  Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?  (Now if the shape of his ear affected his hearing, this is a totally different conversation.)  Everyone is unique!  Don't let the uniqueness be a burden.  Tell your son that the human body is the most remarkable thing on planet earth, and that includes his!  Its only a problem if he sees it as a problem.  Why do you care about what others say?!  Why should he care what others think/say?!  There are people out there that will want to spend time with your son, regardless of what his ear looks like.  Those are the people he should be friends with and spending most of his time with anyways. 
Why should someone give a flying puck whether or not an ear is shaped different than the other one!  As a couple others have hinted at...  let him grow some character (and balls) in dealing with his body the way it is.    Beauty isn't skin deep - beauty is found on the inside.

(Edited to remove unnecessary/unwholesome language.)

I've read that symmetry and youth are the only two universal beauty standards. All our other standards vary- ideal weight, hairiness, foot size, height, etc. So in this case, I would argue pursuing symmetry is a pretty pan-cultural trend.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 09:05:50 AM »
I don't think it is ridiculous to consider at all.  I don't know what I would do personally, but I agree with those who liken it to braces.


I would check with your insurance if it would be covered, and with the surgeon if there is a way to code it to get it covered.  My cousin had her ears pinned back as a young teenager (nearly 20  years ago). It was covered as her large ears were considered a "birth defect"

Abe

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2018, 07:32:14 AM »

 Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?

I don't think the OP is judging this, I think the boy is. That's his right as it is his body.

NextTime

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2018, 08:59:04 AM »
After explaining to my child that there is nothing wrong with them and they are perfect the way they are, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Kids and teenagers are mean, vicious assholes. And they are even worse now than when we are kids due to social media. And for those of you saying let it be and they will learn a valuable life lesson, they are already going to learn plenty of life lessons in junior high, high school, and college. I don't think this one needs to be added to it. Teen suicide rates have been increasing for a decade.

Plus, you already told him you'd pay for it if he wanted to correct it. I make it a point not to lie to my children if I can help it.

Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2018, 09:48:49 AM »
I've read that symmetry and youth are the only two universal beauty standards. All our other standards vary- ideal weight, hairiness, foot size, height, etc. So in this case, I would argue pursuing symmetry is a pretty pan-cultural trend.

I've heard/read this as well. 
But I would argue that the vanity is just as high for a "middle aged" person or an "elderly" person to try to look like they are 20 (read: "youth") again as it would for someone to try to pursue symmetry.  (There are many actors that alter their appearance to try to look younger/"better,"  and the whole thing comes across as repulsive to me.  There is no such thing as "aging gracefully" these days it seems.  Old is a dirty word.)  Once again, judging someone's character/person on physical appearance is very shallow - it comes across as Nazi-ish. 

Just because the majority says symmetry is beautiful, doesn't mean a person needs to alter their body to conform to what the majority says. 


Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2018, 10:02:12 AM »

 Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?

I don't think the OP is judging this, I think the boy is. That's his right as it is his body.

An 11 year old boy isn't responsible enough to make a large decision like this himself.
If he was wanting a penile lengthening surgery because it was 4" instead of the average 5", would you still say "Go for it! It's your body"? 

Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2018, 10:10:45 AM »
After explaining to my child that there is nothing wrong with them and they are perfect the way they are, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I would suggest that you would be sending mixed messages to you child.  Hypocritical - you say one thing, but the actions don't like up with what you say.

Quote
Kids and teenagers are mean, vicious assholes. And they are even worse now than when we are kids due to social media.
I agree. 

Quote
And for those of you saying let it be and they will learn a valuable life lesson, they are already going to learn plenty of life lessons in junior high, high school, and college. I don't think this one needs to be added to it. Teen suicide rates have been increasing for a decade.

Plus, you already told him you'd pay for it if he wanted to correct it. I make it a point not to lie to my children if I can help it.
Learning how to deal with people ("vicious asshole" included) is an essential skill in life.  Suicide is an issue that is far deeper than a person's appearance.

Dicey

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2018, 10:19:36 AM »
It might be good to talk your kid through this extensively, now.

What will he say in response to questions if he keeps the ear that's his "signature" or has it fixed? Either way there will be questions. Helping him figure out his possible responses will lead you both to the right decision.

NextTime

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »
After explaining to my child that there is nothing wrong with them and they are perfect the way they are, I would do it in a heartbeat.
I would suggest that you would be sending mixed messages to you child.  Hypocritical - you say one thing, but the actions don't like up with what you say.

Quote
Kids and teenagers are mean, vicious assholes. And they are even worse now than when we are kids due to social media.
I agree. 

Quote
And for those of you saying let it be and they will learn a valuable life lesson, they are already going to learn plenty of life lessons in junior high, high school, and college. I don't think this one needs to be added to it. Teen suicide rates have been increasing for a decade.

Plus, you already told him you'd pay for it if he wanted to correct it. I make it a point not to lie to my children if I can help it.
Learning how to deal with people ("vicious asshole" included) is an essential skill in life.  Suicide is an issue that is far deeper than a person's appearance.


People wear makeup, wear trendy clothes, style their hair, work out to be skinnier or more muscular. All these things to attempt to have the appearance they deem preferable.
How is plastic surgery to correct a birth defect any different?

They will get ample opportunity to develop the skills to deal with vicious assholes throughout their adolescence. Removing a piece of low hanging fruit isn't going to prevent that. Personal appearance is one of the easiest and most common targets for bullies, so if you don't see that connection to low self-esteem, depression, and in rare instances, suicide, then there's nothing more to say.

Being a good parent can make a huge difference, but every child is different in what they can and cannot handle.


« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 12:16:39 PM by dcozad999 »

Kyle B

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2018, 12:16:56 PM »
It might be good to talk your kid through this extensively, now.
She already asked him.

It has never been discussed until this year.....when he told me that several of his friends asked him "why are your ears different?" And he asked us why they are different. We told him that it was likely a developmental deformity in utero. A couple of months later he told us that a couple of kids were telling him how stupid it looks, etc. That's when I told him that we can have it corrected if he wants to...and he immediately said "YES, please can we fix it?"

Dicey

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 07:01:43 PM »
It has never been discussed until this year.....when he told me that several of his friends asked him "why are your ears different?" And he asked us why they are different. We told him that it was likely a developmental deformity in utero. A couple of months later he told us that a couple of kids were telling him how stupid it looks, etc. That's when I told him that we can have it corrected if he wants to...and he immediately said "YES, please can we fix it?"

It might be good to talk your kid through this extensively, now.

She already asked him.
Ah, I see I probably should have used more words. For clarity, I have arranged the quotes in sequential order.

From the quote you cited: "It has never been discussed until this year" + "I told him that we can have it corrected" + "...he immediately said, Yes" are not clear indicators of extensive discussion.

Did you notice that several posters mentioned that they had problems corrected and were still teased?

I'm thinking that's one angle that should be thoroughly discussed. "What if you do this and kids still tease you? How do you think it would feel? What are some possible responses to them?"

Did you read @Beard N Bones's interesting response? That might lead to questions such as "Do you think it will change how you feel about yourself?" or "How does the teasing make you feel?" There are lots of other solid questions to be explored. Based on this, I repeat: It's a great opportunity for some in-depth conversations.

One last thing: I took no position on the issue, I just made some observations I thought might be helpful. I expect that's kinda what that @sjc0816 was hoping for when they asked the question.

__________________________________

And just because I like to tell stories, here's one along these lines. My baby sister is the youngest of six. When she was really little, we all delighted in teaching her huge words, which she promptly added to her everyday vocabulary. One day her five-year-old self came home enraged that the boys at school had teased her about how she talked. When we asked her what she'd replied, she put her indignant fists on her hips and said, "I told them it was not nice to make fun of someone with a speech impediment!" Of course, this line became part of the family lore. She did indeed have a speech impediment. Her jaws were badly mis-aligned. In high school after growth was completed, she needed full orthodontia, speech therapy and two surgeries, including bone grafts, to correct. She now has a beautiful smile and a vocabulary that would make Mrs. Frugalwoods proud. I am glad my parents did this for her, but they made completely certain that it was discussed left, right and center before her treatment began. Although with that one, they needn't have worried.

ElleFiji

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 08:05:36 PM »
I would talk to him extensively, and to a mental health professional and more than one surgeon. I absolutely think it's a good use of money, if it's what he wants, no-one is worried about him changing his mind, and that this is a time where it makes sense to do it (i.e., the results will stay as he grows).

Partly because I think those are all good people to talk to, partly because the number of visits and discussions will help him understand it's a big decision, and understand as he's older that he had a choice in the decision. I know a few people who were railroaded into minor procedures around that age, whose parents swear that the kid was asked and said yes, but the now adults don't remember saying yes, and remember a confusing sequence of events that changed them for life.

I wouldn't want to leave him open to being teased for much longer if he wants it changed...but I wouldn't want him, as an adult, missing his old ear.

Pigeon

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2018, 08:21:42 PM »
My daughter had a misshapened eye tooth that always bothered her a great deal. We had it fixed with a veneer when she was in her late teens. She was so relieved and happy to have it done. If you can afford it, i can't imagine not doing it for your child.


Abe

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 09:40:58 PM »

 Who are you to be the judge in whether or not his ear is "normal" or "defective"?

I don't think the OP is judging this, I think the boy is. That's his right as it is his body.

An 11 year old boy isn't responsible enough to make a large decision like this himself.
If he was wanting a penile lengthening surgery because it was 4" instead of the average 5", would you still say "Go for it! It's your body"?

1st point is a broad generalization based on age and no other information about the child, and not actually the scenario proposed. The actual scenario is that the 11 year old is discussing this with their parents. Secondly, at what age is someone, in your opinion, able to make decisions about their body independently, and why?

2nd point is a straw man argument. We're not discussing that, we are discussing fixing a congenital deformity as an outpatient operation with a short recovery period. As a society, we routinely fix facial deformities such as cleft palate in infants, which are significantly bigger operations with more risks and complications. Here's another straw man: say the 11 year old was burnt and had a significant injury to that ear. Is it now OK to repair, or should he just deal with it? If not, why should acquired deformities be OK to repair, but congenital ones not acceptable to fix?

« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 09:44:13 PM by Abe »

Kyle B

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2018, 10:46:55 PM »
Yeah, once I read the idea of an eleven year old insisting on penis-enlargement surgery I knew I didn't need to read any more from that guy.

Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2018, 09:45:31 AM »
...at what age is someone, in your opinion, able to make decisions about their body independently, and why?

Yep.  That is a really good question.  Obviously we are at odds in this.  The answer to your question is: When they are able to give Informed Consent to such a procedure.  Age is only one aspect to consider when contemplating informed consent.  Therefore there is not an absolute age.  That said, because of a variety of issues surrounding informed consent, an 11 year old is not likely to be able to make independent decisions about their body that involve procedures as explained by the OP.

So I will ask you the same question:  at what age do you think a person is able to make decisions about their body independently? (And because we are talking about a cupping ear "correction", lets make decisions that involve cosmetic surgery as the focus.)

2nd point is a straw man argument. We're not discussing that, we are discussing fixing a congenital deformity as an outpatient operation with a short recovery period.

You are absolutely correct on the Straw Man Fallacy. 
I thought the idea you presented - namely that an 11 year old is able to make independent decisions that involve elective cosmetic surgery for his body - was absolutely absurd and laughable.  I thought my response was a tit-for-a-tat.  Are you serious about 11 year olds being able/responsible enough to make such decisions as the OP presented?!  (I personally will not continue a discussion on whether or not an 11 year old can give informed consent to the surgery that the OP has mentioned.  As I mentioned earlier, I think the answer is obvious.)

The following questions need to be answered for consent to be truly informed:
- Are you (or the 11 year old) aware of the risks of the surgery?  There are many, and most aren't trivial.  (This would include, in the OPs case, the bullies/assholes still pick on the 11 year old, even if his ears are "fixed" so there is symmetry.
- What are the benefits?  I can only think of one potential benefit. 
- Do the risks outweigh the benefits?  Or do the benefits outweigh the risks?  (Obviously I side with the "risks outweigh the benefit.")
- Are there alternatives to this procedure?
You come across as if "fixing" this "congenital defect" is a minor procedure with no ramifications.  You make it out that this is not a big deal.  And that is where I disagree with you.

Beard N Bones

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2018, 09:54:00 AM »
Yeah, once I read the idea of an eleven year old insisting on penis-enlargement surgery I knew I didn't need to read any more from that guy.

"Oh bring out the Tone Trolls, its Mr. Ad Hominem!" 
Fallacies are fun, aren't they Kyle B?

Kyle B

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2018, 08:53:13 PM »
Yeah, once I read the idea of an eleven year old insisting on penis-enlargement surgery I knew I didn't need to read any more from that guy.

"Oh bring out the Tone Trolls, its Mr. Ad Hominem!" 
Fallacies are fun, aren't they Kyle B?

It's not an "ad hominem" or a "fallacy" -- you really did compare fixing a birth defect to an eleven year old wanting penile lengthening surgery. 

If he was wanting a penile lengthening surgery because it was 4" instead of the average 5", would you still say "Go for it! It's your body"?

Abe

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Re: Are we crazy for considering cosmetic surgery for our 11 year old?
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2018, 12:05:39 AM »
I’d say that we agree when a person can give informed consent is the ideal age.  We generally don’t allow younger children to refuse vaccinations, for example, but do allow older ones. I am seriously saying that some 11 year olds can make informed decisions on certain aspects of their medical care, cosmetic or not. I would like to hear why you think they can’t.

Whether the kid in questions understands the risks is the main factor in providing informed consent, as you point out. Thus our disagreement is on whether we think an 11 year old can, and on the risks and benefits of the procedure. My answer to your first question is that age is not a factor if the person can articulate their answers to the informed consent questions you posed. It is a bit nuanced than you give credit. You may find it absurd, but it is not as rare in the medical field as you may think.

Regarding if I know the risks, yes I do for several personal and professional reasons, and know they are low.  My only position regarding the risks and benefits aspect is that in this case I can see why a person (regardless of age) may see significant benefits from the procedure. I’m not one to judge them, and do believe there are scenarios where the benefits outweigh the risks of cosmetic surgery (though I personally would not undergo elective surgery). I also believe that children can make informed decisions about the true vs perceived benefits with the help of their parents/guardians.

I do appreciate your acknowledging the 2nd part of your post was a straw man fallacy. Have a good day, and thanks for the interesting discussion!