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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Mini Money Mustaches => Topic started by: Chesleygirl on December 08, 2017, 03:47:14 PM
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There are two girls at my daughter's school she is sort of friends with.They ride their bikes over to the house several times, just knock on the door, we'd let them in the first few times, to play for a while, then called their dad to come get them. These girls are sisters about 7 and 8, my daughter is 9. We decided to put a stop to it, as they would eat all the food in the fridge and didn't want to leave. The problem is, they still do this, just show up, bang on the door. It's started getting dark earlier now and I don't think they should be out riding around on their bikes, just my opinion, but I also don't want them coming in the house anymore on school nights and without prior arrangements being made for play dates. They will also follow my car home from school on their bikes, they come over, stalk the house, my daughter has started drawing the curtains closed, as she doesn't like their aggressive need for attention. Although she is friendly with them at school and on the playground after school. I also don't want them in my home all the time, I know that sounds totally selfish but I have young toddlers in my home also. It's too many kids in the house to watch after. So one day a week ago, these two girls came over and their grandmother was with them and she said she was "dropping them off to play" and this was absent of any prior agreement. I told her I couldn't let them come in the house. One of the girls came over just today banging on our door and wouldn't leave for 10 minutes. Then called my daughter on the phone mad at her, for not answering the door. Should we talk to their parents or just let this go for a while until they get the hint?
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I don't have kids but we had a neighbor doing something similar, just coming over all the time and staying forever (several times i went to bed and he was still here) and despite our hints it didn't stop until we flat out said to stop.
Since these are kids, there could be a reason that they don't like being at home. Maybe there's fighting in the house, lack of food or other issues? Not that it makes them your responsibly to care for but just something to consider.
It could also be that they're just kids and don't understand the social etiquette.
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I don't have kids but we had a neighbor doing something similar, just coming over all the time and staying forever (several times i went to bed and he was still here) and despite our hints it didn't stop until we flat out said to stop.
Since these are kids, there could be a reason that they don't like being at home. Maybe there's fighting in the house, lack of food or other issues? Not that it makes them your responsibly to care for but just something to consider.
It could also be that they're just kids and don't understand the social etiquette.
Their parents let them roam the neighborhood on their bikes after school, since they were in first grade. Another parent has told me they barged into her house one day when she'd accidentally left the front door unlocked, she was surprised to see them in her home. I really liked them at first but now I cannot stand to see them coming. They've come twice this week and we haven't let them in. I can't watch them in my home anymore, with two-year old twins and a 9 year old, I have enough on my plate. Also by letting them into my home, I would be assuming responsibility for them. I don't want to.
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First impression, you are bonkers. It's a great of think for kids to be running around a neighborhood, riding bikes, playing!
That said, you can say "oh I'm so sorry Sally and Betty, my daughter can't play today, she has homework" whenever they come and it is a bad time or your daughter doesn't want to play.
To be honest I am judging your judging, lol. This seems like such a weird thing to be annoyed about.
If I don't want kids in my house I just send them all out to my yard. If they get cld,they go home! We have neighborhood kids stop by to play a few days a week (same ages) and I am thrilled! The kids play or run around the neighborhood and it is all good.
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No, you are not bonkers. I've had this same experience. I've encountered a few kids like this over the years, and it seems they're often kids who don't have "enough" at home ... enough food, enough attention, enough of anything. For a while we had a little girl a couple houses down who'd show up and ask me for breakfast -- at one point she told me I should start buying sugary cereal. I've tried to help various kids over the years, but ultimately I can't take the place of their parents -- and kids like this don't seem to have limits; the more you give, the more they request. No, this type of kid doesn't take a hint.
When my kids were younger, I enjoyed their friends coming over, but it is WORK. It's extra kids to supervise (even if indirectly), extra noise in the house, and extra mess to clean up later. Fairly often these too-frequent visitors break things, and my kids end up with their feelings hurt. It's not something I am willing to allow every day.
What to do? Keep your door locked so they can't just walk right in. If they show up on a day you (or your daughter) don't want them to visit, say that your daughter can't have visitors today -- homework, cleaning her room, whatever. Be polite but firm, and send them on their way. Talk to your daughter about how to manage play dates; let her practice telling you that she's busy this afternoon.
When you do allow them to come over for a play date, keep an eye out for signs of neglect or abuse. Perhaps nothing like that is going on, but it can't hurt to look with a critical eye.
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First impression, you are bonkers. It's a great of think for kids to be running around a neighborhood, riding bikes, playing!
That said, you can say "oh I'm so sorry Sally and Betty, my daughter can't play today, she has homework" whenever they come and it is a bad time or your daughter doesn't want to play.
To be honest I am judging your judging, lol. This seems like such a weird thing to be annoyed about.
If I don't want kids in my house I just send them all out to my yard. If they get cld,they go home! We have neighborhood kids stop by to play a few days a week (same ages) and I am thrilled! The kids play or run around the neighborhood and it is all good.
If I judge them and they decide I'm a bad, judgmental person, will they leave us alone then? Could that possibly work to get rid of them?
Sure, I could tell them to just stay in the front yard, but last time I checked, I own the house plus the front yard. And I don't want them here on my property. Too much potential liability with having lots of kids on one's property all the time.
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No, you are not bonkers. I've had this same experience. I've encountered a few kids like this over the years, and it seems they're often kids who don't have "enough" at home ... enough food, enough attention, enough of anything. For a while we had a little girl a couple houses down who'd show up and ask me for breakfast -- at one point she told me I should start buying sugary cereal. I've tried to help various kids over the years, but ultimately I can't take the place of their parents -- and kids like this don't seem to have limits; the more you give, the more they request. No, this type of kid doesn't take a hint.
That's what I'm going through. We let the kids come over a few times, now they assume they can do so every single day. They went through a significant portion of our groceries, and kept wanting me to make and serve them more food. The grandma trying to drop them off with me one day was the last straw. I am not the free neighborhood babysitter. It's clear where they learned their lack of boundaries and bad manners from. They literally treat me like a waitress when they are here, wanting to be served food, drinks, over and over again.
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Don't feel bad, it sounds as if they've crossed many of your boundaries. Be more firm and send them away. It's your home, period. You shouldn't have to feel this way in your own home.
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Also I wanted to mention if I knew my kids were spending that much time at someone else's house I would like to meet the other parents. They must be neglected at their home but that's not your responsibility. It sounds like you have enough on your plate. I would firmly communicate with them and get to the point.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"? If you have not used your words at the children, how will they know that this is a permanent change in the status quo? Then you can decide what regularity of play dates suits you (weekly? Fortnightly? Monthly??) and schedule them in advance at a time that suits you. And use your words at your daughter too: "If [friend] and [friend] want to come over, tell them your Mum said a grown up has to ring up the day before and ask." Your daughter may well be glad to have you to be bad cop. If you can, get in touch with their parents too. It may be that the girls have said that you said it was OK. Make it clear what the new arrangements are.
If you just fob them off when they turn up, they will keep coming. Use your words kindly and clearly and stick to the "a grown up rings up the day before" rule.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"? If you have not used your words at the children, how will they know that this is a permanent change in the status quo? [/i][/u]Then you can decide what regularity of play dates suits you (weekly? Fortnightly? Monthly??) and schedule them in advance at a time that suits you. And use your words at your daughter too: "If [friend] and [friend] want to come over, tell them your Mum said a grown up has to ring up the day before and ask." Your daughter may well be glad to have you to be bad cop. If you can, get in touch with their parents too. It may be that the girls have said that you said it was OK. Make it clear what the new arrangements are.
If you just fob them off when they turn up, they will keep coming. Use your words kindly and clearly and stick to the "a grown up rings up the day before" rule.
Agree. 100%. Children need clear expectations from adults in their lives, including those who aren't their parents.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"?
We have communicated that, but not in those specific words, but I will try that. They have my daughter's # in their cell phone and also have my husband's # and have called him at work and he doesn't like that and has blocked their number so they can't call anymore. The involvement with these kids has gone very sour so we may not allow our child to play with them at all anymore. Not sure what we'll do. I think the parents encourage them to go to people's homes. It's always easier to eat someone else's food, use someone else's bathroom, mess up someone else's house.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"?
We have communicated that, but not in those specific words, but I will try that. They have my daughter's # in their cell phone and also have my husband's # and have called him at work and he doesn't like that and has blocked their number so they can't call anymore. The involvement with these kids has gone very sour so we may not allow our child to play with them at all anymore. Not sure what we'll do. I think the parents encourage them to go to people's homes. It's always easier to eat someone else's food, use someone else's bathroom, mess up someone else's house.
Really do say it that bluntly and clearly. And do say it to your daughter and the girls' parents too. Then just keep repeating it like a broken record. You can't wait forever for them to "get the hint" but you can use your words to communicate a new rule and then stick to it - no exceptions, EVER. Also, the need to get their dad to ring up in advance might be enough of a hurdle that they just give up and go after someone else. And who knows, maybe you'll find out they're great kids to play with once a month and you end up looking forward to it when they're not bugging you everyday!
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I agree with the broken record technique; it is a great way to enforce boundaries and not let pushy people inch past your boundaries.
I don't get the sense that you or your daughter have been direct with these neighbors. Based on your comments here, it sounds like you let these neighbors take advantage of you and then resent it. I get it; I've been there. Many times in my life, I didn't realize my boundaries had been crossed until after the fact. I had to learn from the experiences and do better next time.
I'm an advocate for letting kids work out their own problems with friends as much they can, and not swooping in to fix everything for them. In this case I think you and your daughter need to team up. You can support your daughter in learning how to communicate and enforce her boundaries with these girls. Doing do will serve her the rest of her life.
I don't think it is your business to judge these neighbors for being outside all the time and riding their bikes. If you step back, is it really so bad for kids to be independent and active. They just need some adults and other kids to communicate boudaries so they can learn not to cross them. I think grandma knows what she is doing, but these girls probably don't know any better and aren't socially savvy enough yet to get subtle hints.
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Their parents have let them roam around unsupervised since they were six years old? Doesn't that constitute as neglect in your country? In Canada, kids aren't allowed to be alone before age ten, and can't take care of a younger sibling prior to age 12. I still remember one news story where social services were called and parents were charged with neglect because they let their kids go to the playground by themselves. You need to talk to their parents.
If you have already talked to their parents and given clear rules that mom/dad needs to call you and ask before sending their kids over, and this still happens, and you want to escalate, just call the school and tell them that these kids are not being supervised after school by a caregiver and are being placed in dangerous (unsupervised) situations. Teachers and school adminstration are mandated reporters, by law they have to report to social services who will then open an investigation on the family.
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Their parents have let them roam around unsupervised since they were six years old? Doesn't that constitute as neglect in your country? In Canada, kids aren't allowed to be alone before age ten, and can't take care of a younger sibling prior to age 12. I still remember one news story where social services were called and parents were charged with neglect because they let their kids go to the playground by themselves. You need to talk to their parents.
I am not sure what the laws are here. They are the only kids in the area who do this, run around after school, all over the neighborhood. They have gone into other people's homes when the front door was unlocked. We have after-school care here until 6 pm. but I suppose their parents can't afford to pay for it. They came over just yesterday, ringing the doorbell, and it was after 5 pm. and it's getting dark earlier now. We didn't answer the door. It's the third time they've come by this week. We have called their parents in the past, who were just sitting at home watching tv. They said their children knew what time to come back home. They might be "free range" kids and their parents are okay with this, so all I'm going to do now is not answer the door.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"?
We have communicated that, but not in those specific words, but I will try that. They have my daughter's # in their cell phone and also have my husband's # and have called him at work and he doesn't like that and has blocked their number so they can't call anymore. The involvement with these kids has gone very sour so we may not allow our child to play with them at all anymore. Not sure what we'll do. I think the parents encourage them to go to people's homes. It's always easier to eat someone else's food, use someone else's bathroom, mess up someone else's house.
Really do say it that bluntly and clearly. And do say it to your daughter and the girls' parents too. Then just keep repeating it like a broken record. You can't wait forever for them to "get the hint" but you can use your words to communicate a new rule and then stick to it - no exceptions, EVER. Also, the need to get their dad to ring up in advance might be enough of a hurdle that they just give up and go after someone else. And who knows, maybe you'll find out they're great kids to play with once a month and you end up looking forward to it when they're not bugging you everyday!
+1
The only thing that is bonkers here is expecting young kids to understand hints. You are treating them as if they are adults, with a fully-developed understanding of social cues. They aren’t. Expecting them to infer your meaning, when one day it’s ok and the next is not, is much more hurtful to the kids than simply telling them a clear rule, and then enforcing it consistently.
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I'm not certain that you've fully communicated your boundaries to these girls. Giving a "hint" like not answering the door isn't going to communicate your boundaries to children; you need to be more explicit. It is of course your right not to answer the door, but I don't think it will help these girls learn to have better boundaries.
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Their parents have let them roam around unsupervised since they were six years old? Doesn't that constitute as neglect in your country? In Canada, kids aren't allowed to be alone before age ten, and can't take care of a younger sibling prior to age 12. I still remember one news story where social services were called and parents were charged with neglect because they let their kids go to the playground by themselves. You need to talk to their parents.
I am not sure what the laws are here. They are the only kids in the area who do this, run around after school, all over the neighborhood. They have gone into other people's homes when the front door was unlocked. We have after-school care here until 6 pm. but I suppose their parents can't afford to pay for it. They came over just yesterday, ringing the doorbell, and it was after 5 pm. and it's getting dark earlier now. We didn't answer the door. It's the third time they've come by this week. We have called their parents in the past, who were just sitting at home watching tv. They said their children knew what time to come back home. They might be "free range" kids and their parents are okay with this, so all I'm going to do now is not answer the door.
You did this wrong. Use your words, as explained above. Otherwise they will keep coming. It doesn't matter whether the parents are OK with it or not. You need to clearly and verbally communicate the new rule to everybody: girls, parents and daughters.
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Um....Feed them vegetables and make the do chores?
"Hey, kids get here early Saturday, we are building a deck, together, all of us."
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Um....Feed them vegetables and make the do chores?
"Hey, kids get here early Saturday, we are building a deck, together, all of us."
best advice. love it.
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Have had this problem with neighbor kids a few times at various residences. My recent solution was to explain to the parent that their kids can come over to our house a maximum of once a week, on Friday afternoons, and that they MUST ring the doorbell. They actually stopped coming to our house after that. I worry that I offended them, but not so worried that I will invite them to come again...
Also, I have now a lot of experience with telling visiting kids: "It's rude to do X" or "We don't do X in our home", or even "If you keep doing X, I will tell your parents to bring you home right away. And that would be too bad, because I want you to stay!" Such unacceptable behaviors include entering our house without ringing the doorbell, opening cabinets or refrigerators without permission, or making a mess.
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I had neighbor kids like this in a houseshare I lived in when I was in college. Two girls would show up at anytime, wanting to hang out, bake brownies, paw through our stuff. It was cute at first but then they were there alllllll the time. Then I found out that my housemate was inconsistent about locking our door when she went out and that they would come in when we were not home. NOT cool. At that point we had to just tell them they could not come into the house at all anymore, because it turned out they had completely terrorized my housemate's rescue dog (who was already pretty shy/jumpy).
So, I think it is good to set firm boundaries! Tell them they can only come over at a certain time/day, and/or that their parent has to arrange it in advance. And yes, you have to tell them with very specific words, they aren't old enough to "get the hint" (think about how many clueless adults you encounter...).
I think a certain level of "free-range" is good but it's one thing to have a reciprocal situation where your kids go to the other house sometimes and everyone knows to go the f*** home for dinner eventually, and quite another to basically get dumped with 2 extra kids who have what sounds like very different standards of what constitutes good behavior and who never want to leave.
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So, I think it is good to set firm boundaries! Tell them they can only come over at a certain time/day, and/or that their parent has to arrange it in advance.
At this point, I'm not going to invite them over at all, even with arrangement through the parents. For one thing, they've never had or invited our child to their home, so there's no reciprocity going on. The one time my child asked to go to their house, the dad said no. So we aren't going to get into a one-sided arrangement with them.
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We have a similar neighbor so I can identify.
I do like it when kids go out and knock on doors and find their own things to do. I do not want to arrange all my children's play dates. So for that reason I think it's actually a good thing that parents allow kids this freedom. But I do put limits on it. One of which is that if the weather is good, then you all don't need to be in my house. You can play outside. So when friends knock on the door and it's not raining, I just send them all out. When it's storming I allow them to play in the basement (out of my space) and at about the two hour mark I send everyone home. If my kids don't want to play outside or in the basement then I tell them to tell the friend at the door they don't feel like playing today. When my kids want to go see if a friend can play I tell them that they are allowed to only play OUTSIDE, unless the weather is bad and the other parent contacts me. I also make sure my children understand that they are to come home in two hours no matter what. Because-manners.
It's really pretty simple.
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So, I think it is good to set firm boundaries! Tell them they can only come over at a certain time/day, and/or that their parent has to arrange it in advance.
At this point, I'm not going to invite them over at all, even with arrangement through the parents. For one thing, they've never had or invited our child to their home, so there's no reciprocity going on. The one time my child asked to go to their house, the dad said no. So we aren't going to get into a one-sided arrangement with them.
Reading through this, I was surprised no one else suggested the following:
Meet the parents / grandparents briefly, if you haven't yet. If they seem safe enough, then when the difficult kids try to come over..
a. Tell your daughter she can go out to play, if she wants, if there is a park nearby that works, so would your front yard, really.
b. Send your daughter to their house, (without an invite) and have her make the mess / be fed etc over there. Because the girls are younger, your 9 year old will have much less impact over there than the two of them at your home.
If you do allow them in (winter?), keep them to one "play" room / area, and out of the kitchen, for certain. Don't feed more than basic amount (apple slices and a drink of milk or water?). Send them home after an hour.
I do think your daughter or you should answer the door (preferably you daughter) and just tell them "You can't come in weekdays because Mom's working" or simply "You aren't allowed in the house anymore". I remember kids with parents with that rule for all kids, and it was well understood. Then you daughter can choose to go out and play until 4:30pm or whatever, as long as she knows the area boundaries and you trust your daughter.
Finally, if your daughter just doesn't want to play with them : "I don't want to play today" is a fine answer, over and over. But tell them to their face, don't make them guess.
ETA: Your situation is a lot easier to manage than when it is your daughter's pleasant but annoying boyfriend that is over too much!
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Its clear you're being used/abused in this scenario even your daughter if she isnt interested in playing.
That being said i really hope my kids and kids friends are like this when they get older - at least to a point on the level of how bean counter laid it out. There are kids always running around and playing outside in our hood so i'm hoping our kids do the same. Though the parents should put some level of control over their children and reciprocate the open door policy.
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Its clear you're being used/abused in this scenario even your daughter if she isnt interested in playing.
That being said i really hope my kids and kids friends are like this when they get older - at least to a point on the level of how bean counter laid it out. There are kids always running around and playing outside in our hood so i'm hoping our kids do the same. Though the parents should put some level of control over their children and reciprocate the open door policy.
I guess I don't care if they're running around outdoors playing, as long as they don't consider my home or front yard to be their territory. When I was in junior high, there was a girl who befriended me for a while just so she could get free rides home from school, from my mom. Her parents never offered gas money or reciprocated by doing favors for us, and never even invited me to their house. Eventually my mom stopped giving her rides. My daughter has a ton of friends already, though, and we don't feel we need to bend over backwards to get friends into her life.
There are many different types of parents around here and some are extremely overprotective to the point where they don't allow play dates at all. Then, there's the opposite end of the spectrum where they let their kids do anything, go anywhere. We are not at either extreme, we're sort of in the middle. I think running around outdoors is okay but now that it's much colder and getting dark earlier, it's more concerning for me.
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It looks like I didn't fully appriciate the neighborhood my kids grew up in. My girls were "free range" from they were 3-4 y.o., and so were 90 % of the other kids in the street. During the winter time it gets dark around 15:00, so we slapped on some reflectors and gave them torches before sending them outside. We rarely knew how many we would feed for dinner, some days it was 10, other days only us two adults. I never counted, but it seemed like our kids were fed by the neighbors about the same number of times we fed the other kids. Rules were easy to enforce; all the kids accepted that the houses had different rules, and it worked as long as we clearly explained them. Some kids needed a bit stricter talking to than others, but nothing out of order. If they wouldn't behave, we sent them home, and if they thought we were too strict, they ran home. But they always came back. In this neighborhood, only one family insisted on making play dates, and that kid was soon left outside from the other kids' games. It was much easier to run to one of the neighbors, instead of going back home to get us to make arrangements. After a year or so, those girls were also let loose when the parents realized the other parents really didn't want to go through the hazzle.
This is obviously not the kind of neighborhood/child rearing the OP wants. And that is fine. Their life, their house, their rules. I just wanted to tell about a different way to see things, and give a hint that maybe the other parents aren't doing this out of spite, but rather because this is how they grew up, and this is the kind of childhood they want their kids to have. A bit strange that they turned the OP's kid away the only time she asked to visit, but it could have been bad timing. Or they might be selfish idiots. That is always an option.
When we moved to a larger city in a different part of the country, we probably came across a bit like the "bad" family the OP describes. In this neighborhood, playdates are much more common, and parents tend to panic if the kids aren't home straight after school. Our kids are used to freedom within boundary, so we don't need to keep a tight leash on them. They will be home at the agreed upon time, and stay within the perimeter we have told them is safe. It didn't take long before we had to start driving other kids home when they drifted to our house, because it was clear they weren't, and couldn't be, trusted by their parents. If my kids visit someone after school, they have cleared that with me beforehand. The kids we got visiting in this area were lying to my face, telling me their parents knew where they were, when in reality they were calling the police because their kid was "missing". If that is what you are used to setting boundaries for, I understand that it looks strange when a new kid knocks on your door and asks if they can play with your kid. There are also kids in this area who arent allowed to walk outside it there is snow and dark. I'm sorry, I try not to judge, but we live in Norway. Keeping children indoors 8 months a year isn't healthy.
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Again, I don't really care if they raise free-range kids. But my home and front yard is not part of their "free range". I've never called the police or CPS on them. There's been issues with them doing this to other parents in the neighborhood too, one mom who left her door unlocked for a few minutes, then found these girls in her living room. She wasn't happy about it, to say the least. These aren't kids who want to be outdoors at all. They clearly want to be indoors. If they truly enjoyed riding their bikes around outdoors, they wouldn't be barging into people's homes demanding food and attention. So clearly, this isn't working out that well for them. For those of you who are free range, great, but I don't have to underwrite your parenting choice by allowing your free-range kid to use my home as a pit stop whenever they need to use the bathroom or eat. Nor do I have to allow them to barge in on our family privacy.
I don't keep my kid indoors constantly. She is not kept indoors 8 months out of the year. She is involved in theater and gymnastics and both keep her busy. I don't want her riding her bike or playing video games all the time. That doesn't mean she can't do it some of the time. She does have playdates but they are always pre-arranged and we know the parents.
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Clearly these kids don't understand boundaries and they aren't your responsibility ... but you seem to not be taking into account that they might not be receiving sufficient care at home. You said their dad didn't let your daughter in his house, he may not let his daughters in either until it's a certain time of night. Mom or Dad (it doesn't seem like you've met either) might hit them or yell at them or not feed them. Your house looks safe and warm and inviting. Kids don't know how to tell you if they're in danger, it might be worth asking a few questions. Or calling a teacher. Or doing something other than having two young girls standing on your porch when it's dark and cold and you're refusing to even open the door and talk to them.
I could be totally overreacting, but I recently took a CPS training course and I'm seeing a lot of red flags here. You're certainly not responsible for these girls, but putting a little bit of effort in to seeing what's going on could make a huge difference if it's dangerous.
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Clearly these kids don't understand boundaries and they aren't your responsibility ... but you seem to not be taking into account that they might not be receiving sufficient care at home. You said their dad didn't let your daughter in his house, he may not let his daughters in either until it's a certain time of night. Mom or Dad (it doesn't seem like you've met either) might hit them or yell at them or not feed them. Your house looks safe and warm and inviting. Kids don't know how to tell you if they're in danger, it might be worth asking a few questions. Or calling a teacher. Or doing something other than having two young girls standing on your porch when it's dark and cold and you're refusing to even open the door and talk to them.
I could be totally overreacting, but I recently took a CPS training course and I'm seeing a lot of red flags here. You're certainly not responsible for these girls, but putting a little bit of effort in to seeing what's going on could make a huge difference if it's dangerous.
But calling the police or CPS would be considered wrong, too and we can't judge the parents, either. We aren't going to let them in our house.
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You seem pretty set on not doing this, but just want to put the info out there for anyone else in this situation - you can report anonymously, since you are not a mandated reporter. A large percentage of reports to CPS get screened out before a social worker even goes out (still worth doing! If multiple reports are made on a family, that data is tracked and the situation is more likely to get looked at). In many cases where the case gets screened in, the social worker will visit the family and then determine the case doesn't need to go further.
(Note - I say this from personal experience. CPS was once called on my parents due to a misunderstanding between my brother and a school employee, the social worker came out to visit, everything was fine. My parents, because they are good parents, were a tiny bit annoyed about the time out of their day but mostly glad that people out in the world were concerned about their children.)
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When I grew up, my sisters and I were "those kids" who were never allowed to have friends over at our house, so we roamed the neighborhood from the time we got off the bus until dark. We had a couple of close friends who would pretty much let us live at their houses, but it was never a taking-advantage situation, more like our parents were all single moms so they understood what it was like. The one thing that really helped us was having a church in the neighborhood, we could go there any time and play basketball, choir practice, etc. and our parents never had to accompany us. If you have a church in the neighborhood maybe suggest to the girls to go there (Wednesdays are usually kids night)?
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Ugh, I am not a fan of calling CPS without concrete evidence that the children are being harmed or starved. In NYC, CPS calls are weaponized by apartment neighbors who don't like having children (by nature noisy) living upstairs or next to them. Some good friends of mine who are superb and loving parents were visited by CPS because of multiple calls from their downstairs neighbor. Someone also threatened an antivax acquaintance of mine with CPS (not that I agree with her, but she is certainly a dedicated parent) and she was terrified. It's very stressful.
Chesleygirl, I feel your pain. In the three instances where I've had a live-in neighbor child, none of them was a truly neglected child. In all cases, they had loving family who did not provide as fun or stimulating an environment as our home, on account of parents working, or the at-home parent having a passive personality. Why stay at home with a boring nanny, teen sister, or mom who is always on her phone, if you can go to a house with exciting older boys, lots of toys, a more engaged mom, and great snacks? I was welcoming at first but became tired of being used as free childcare and entertainment to kids with bad manners.
It's not that we're anti free range either. We currently have a great relationship with a family down the street. We carpool to school five days a week, and often I'll get a text from a parent, or the son will drop by once or twice a week politely asking if my son has time to play (either house.) If my son can't play, no problem. Otherwise the boys happily run out together and have a good time. His parents both work but they clearly make efforts to invite my son over when they can. A little bit of reciprocity goes a long way.
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Have you actually said to the girls the specific words, "I know I have allowed this in the past, but you cannot come over to play any more without notice. If you want to come and play, your [dad, grandma, whoever] should ring me up the day before and ask"? If you have not used your words at the children, how will they know that this is a permanent change in the status quo? Then you can decide what regularity of play dates suits you (weekly? Fortnightly? Monthly??) and schedule them in advance at a time that suits you. And use your words at your daughter too: "If [friend] and [friend] want to come over, tell them your Mum said a grown up has to ring up the day before and ask." Your daughter may well be glad to have you to be bad cop. If you can, get in touch with their parents too. It may be that the girls have said that you said it was OK. Make it clear what the new arrangements are.
If you just fob them off when they turn up, they will keep coming. Use your words kindly and clearly and stick to the "a grown up rings up the day before" rule.
Shelivesthedream nailed it.
Right now, these girls and their family are on your nerves because they crossed the boundaries and you are fed up. Maybe they'll behave back into your good graces and maybe not. lay down the law, then IF an adult calls to set up a play date and you're not ready yet, just say "they've been spending so much time together lately, we need a little break. Let's look into this again next month"
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For those of you who are free range, great, but I don't have to underwrite your parenting choice by allowing your free-range kid to use my home as a pit stop whenever they need to use the bathroom or eat. Nor do I have to allow them to barge in on our family privacy.
That's not "free-range." That's just rude.
Look, you are clearly fed up with these girls -- you are not looking for advice for how to manage them, you are looking for approval for the decision you have already made to shut them out. So if that's what you want: you are the mom, that is your prerogative.
But for the future, please recognize your own contribution to this scenario, so you can figure out how to prevent the same kind of blowup from happening again. You are ragingly pissed off at these girls now because you never set and enforced clear boundaries for them in the first place. You never gave them clear rules about when they could come over and when they couldn't; you never established rules up front about snacks, and then enforced those rules when they violated them; you never cheerfully told them it was time to go home and ushered them out the door before they were already on your last nerve. Seriously: you hid instead of just answering the damn door and telling them no. Because you wanted to be "nice." So you bit your tongue and swallowed your frustration until it built and built, and now you're so angry at them you cannot stand to even see them.
Yes, they crossed 100 different boundaries, they "should" have known better, etc. etc. etc. But they are kids -- that's their job. You are an adult. It's your job to create boundaries to keep the inmates from running the asylum, and then enforce them, consistently and calmly, every single time. You don't do yourself or them any favors when you tolerate bad behavior to the point you lose your shit.
I'm not saying this to be mean. I am saying this because I lived this dynamic with my own DD for many years, and it was very damaging to both of us; if you can learn from this and figure out how to manage annoying neighbor kids in the future, rather than just swallowing your annoyance until you are ready to scream, your life and theirs will likely be much more pleasant. Reading 1-2-3 Magic probably saved our relationship, because it forced me to not let the little things slide -- to be very clear about the expectations and boundaries beforehand, and then to be completely calm and consistent in enforcing them. Believe it or not, kids actually feel more secure and are less needy/pushy when they can predict what the answer is going to be -- even when that answer is no!
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Very well said, Laura33. I think that advice works equally well for managing adult relationships as well.
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More or less what Laura33 said. ^^
Your are the adult, it is your house, your castle, your kids, your rules. Own it.
Treat the kids like kids, they are kids, give them boundaries & enforce it. Explain it once. And then enforce it.
Pro-actively have a chat with the parents, be friendly, 'Hey our kids are friends, we're glad they like to come over, but my kiddos has to do this-and-that and these are the hours that fit our schedule.'
good luck!
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Look, you are clearly fed up with these girls -- you are not looking for advice for how to manage them, you are looking for approval for the decision you have already made to shut them out. So if that's what you want: you are the mom, that is your prerogative.
But for the future, please recognize your own contribution to this scenario, so you can figure out how to prevent the same kind of blowup from happening again. You are ragingly pissed off at these girls now because you never set and enforced clear boundaries for them in the first place. You never gave them clear rules about when they could come over and when they couldn't; you never established rules up front about snacks, and then enforced those rules when they violated them; you never cheerfully told them it was time to go home and ushered them out the door before they were already on your last nerve. Seriously: you hid instead of just answering the damn door and telling them no. Because you wanted to be "nice." So you bit your tongue and swallowed your frustration until it built and built, and now you're so angry at them you cannot stand to even see them.
Wow, I don't even know where to begin this is lots of accusations going on here. You don't know anything that went on with these kids because you weren't here in my home all the times they were over here. To be honest, you are the one who sounds very, very angry here. Is that because you allow your kids to do these things? I don't have to "cheerfully" tell someone anything. I'm not a cheerleader or Stepford wife mombot. I also don't have to open my door for anyone I don't want to. I teach my kids the same thing. Don't want to open the door and give an explanation? Don't have to. i don't have to feed anyone's kids, mother anyone else's kids or teach anyone else's kids manners and boundaries. I am not June Cleaver and I don't have to follow anyone else's outdated, sexist notions about being a self-sacrificing mommy to all the children in the neighborhood. Also, I haven't "shut out" people who never belong in my home in the first place. Like I said, it's my home and I can prove it. Moochers do tend to get angry when they can't milk a situation any longer. I'm totally shameless and guilt free.
Feed your own kids.
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^^ very true.^^
Don't want to open the door and give an explanation? Don't have to.
I think a couple of other posters pointed out that this is not as immediately effective as telling them to their face, when you answer the door -- no, you can't come inside anymore, ever.
Otherwise -- they will be in your backyard, trying your backdoor! Kids have no boundaries unless we tell them, and repeat. You don't even have to be nice -- just blunt and civil.
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^^ very true.^^
Don't want to open the door and give an explanation? Don't have to.
I think a couple of other posters pointed out that this is not as immediately effective as telling them to their face, when you answer the door -- no, you can't come inside anymore, ever.
Otherwise -- they will be in your backyard, trying your backdoor! Kids have no boundaries unless we tell them, and repeat. You don't even have to be nice -- just blunt and civil.
I agree, I don't have to be nice or be chirpy & cheerful to someone, that will make them think their behavior is okay. If my kid was doing something that annoyed someone, I'd want the person she annoyed to be blunt with her as well. I don't want her to think anything she does is acceptable and that adults always have to play nice to her.
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Absolutely. But you do have to open the door one time and tell them, otherwise they won't know it's changed forever and they'll keep trying, thinking they will grind you down.
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We had a neighborhood kid some years back who was a year younger than my DD who came over a lot but DD wasn't allowed in their house. We rarely fed her though. I like to be hospitable, but typically only feed kids we actually invite for whatever reason or specifically ask to stay for a meal or whatever.
She lived a few houses down but we used to joke that she must watch our house as she would pop over shortly after my DD got home. Eventually, DD just started saying things like "I'm sorry, I'm busy right now" or "no, I can't play right now". We didn't cut her off completely since DD did want to play with her occasionally. It certainly colored our feelings a bit that DD wasn't allowed in their house. It was rare we talked to the parents too.
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. It certainly colored our feelings a bit that DD wasn't allowed in their house. It was rare we talked to the parents too.
My child has another friend that we're getting ready to stop having come over. This is because in six years, the other girl's parents have never invited my child over. They only get together 2 to 3 times a year, though. But still I've gotten fed up. We've taken their child to restaurants, movies, all kinds of outings. They've never taken my child anywhere and it's definitely not a financial issue, either! My child has never even been inside of their house and now that she's getting older, she is starting to ask questions about why. I'm not sure what to tell her. So we're getting ready to lower the axe on this. Which will kind of hurt because we really like the parents and all that. But when it gets to the point where my kid is wondering why her friend can come over, but she's banned from her friend's house, I need to change some things. We do have friends who live down the street who reciprocate on a regular basis. Usually every other time, their kid comes here on a Saturday and then our kid goes to their house on a Saturday. It doesn't always perfectly even out but we both try to do our fair share.
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Sorry, OP, I'm just not getting it. If you don't answer the door, the kids assume you are not home so they try again later. Maybe I just live in a very different neighborhood than you and grew up in a different one too. I don't even have kids but I live in a subdivision with lots of them. The kids run through all of the backyards to get to each other's houses. If the neighbor kid's ball ends up in my yard, they just come in and get it. No need to ask permission. When I was a kid, it was the same and different families would set out drinks and snacks for us. Even the lady with no kids would leave lemonade out sometimes, just to be neighborly.
I'm not a fan of this generation's trend of ghosting people. Words work a lot better. Your daughter should say she doesn't want to play every day but once a week or whatever is fine.
And who cares if the other parents of your daughter's friend don't reciprocate. Why are you going to punish your daughter and her friend? It's not her friend's fault that her parent's suck. I bet your daughter would rather still have her friend, even if the time is spent at your house than no friend at all. Also, when they get older, you will be grateful that they are at your house where you can know what they are up to.
Lastly, your concerns about liability are overblown. This is coming from a lawyer. Do you have insurance on your property? If not, get some. But a kid that breaks a leg playing soccer in your yard really wouldn't have grounds to sue you. If you have some dangerous conditions that you haven't fixed or put up a warning, then sure, maybe there is an issue there, but it should be fixed regardless of whether you have kids in your yard or not.
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. It certainly colored our feelings a bit that DD wasn't allowed in their house. It was rare we talked to the parents too.
My child has another friend that we're getting ready to stop having come over. This is because in six years, the other girl's parents have never invited my child over. They only get together 2 to 3 times a year, though. But still I've gotten fed up. We've taken their child to restaurants, movies, all kinds of outings. They've never taken my child anywhere and it's definitely not a financial issue, either! My child has never even been inside of their house and now that she's getting older, she is starting to ask questions about why. I'm not sure what to tell her. So we're getting ready to lower the axe on this. Which will kind of hurt because we really like the parents and all that. But when it gets to the point where my kid is wondering why her friend can come over, but she's banned from her friend's house, I need to change some things. We do have friends who live down the street who reciprocate on a regular basis. Usually every other time, their kid comes here on a Saturday and then our kid goes to their house on a Saturday. It doesn't always perfectly even out but we both try to do our fair share.
I feel so bad for your kids. Just let your kids play and butt out of it. Don't take them to movies and restaurants, don't feed them snacks. Don't get involved. Just let your kid play outside, or inside your house with friends when they feel like it. And have them answer the door and say they don't feel like playing when they don't. When your child asks why they aren't invited over to the other kids house, tell them you don't know they should ask their friend. Stop micromanaging your child's relationships. Let them just play and they will figure out the details of the relationship as they get older. You're involvement is making it a lot harder than it needs to be.
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Sorry, OP, I'm just not getting it. If you don't answer the door, the kids assume you are not home so they try again later. Maybe I just live in a very different neighborhood than you and grew up in a different one too. I don't even have kids but I live in a subdivision with lots of them. The kids run through all of the backyards to get to each other's houses. If the neighbor kid's ball ends up in my yard, they just come in and get it. No need to ask permission. When I was a kid, it was the same and different families would set out drinks and snacks for us. Even the lady with no kids would leave lemonade out sometimes, just to be neighborly.
These are different times we live in. Yes, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, things were different. We don't want people roaming around in our backyard as we have a pool and you are strictly liable if you own a pool. I'm sure you know what the term strict liability means. That means even if someone trespasses in your property and is injured in, or drowns in your pool, you are responsible no matter what. And you really should be teaching your children, should you decide to have any, to ask permission before just roaming on someone's property. That's part of teaching good manners and social etiquette. If you were a parent, you would understand how hard it is to take care of 2 year old twins and a hyperactive 9 year old, without adding more kids into your home to "just drop by" whenever they feel like it, eat all your food, mess up your house while you struggle to take care of your toddlers. You'd know how much work it is to supervise children in your home. You have no idea until you have kids of your own, just what parents struggle with and why we might complain if someone's grandma brings two children over to your home, to just "drop them off" to play without giving any prior notice. This is a big HELL NO for me. Sorry but I'm not Mother Theresa. I do not have to watch anyone else's kids but my own. The comment about punishing someone's child is a joke. It would be the parent's fault not mine. If they want to keep the friendships with the girls going, they can man up and take my daughter out to lunch or a movie with their child sometime. It is long past due.
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This is a fun post to read as a future parent.
When I was younger, my younger brother (around 10 years old) had a shadow from a neighbourhood kid. This little guy (maybe 5 years old) ADORED my brother He would actually watch until my brother came home from school, and ran over all excited waiting for my brother to come out to play. My brother would sometimes not want to go outside, so mom would open the door and say "Sorry kid, brother can't come outside tonight", and even sometimes my mom would make my brother deliver the bad news. The kid would sometimes come right at our dinner time so then my mom would answer the door and say "Hey Kid, we eat dinner later than you, so if you want Brother to come out to play, you have to wait longer after your dinner". Because he was 5, this took a few times of training, but eventually he got the message. She was never rude to the kid, or his parents/family, but just said "no not right now" and sent him on his way.
Note, this kid had everything he could ever want at home, but had 2 older siblings (around my brother's age), who were very disinterested in having a little brother. But we wasn't lacking in support/love/food etc. he just wanted a bigger kid to pay him attention. Eventually he grew out of it.
Flash forward 15 years, and we are still really close friends with that family (no feelings were hurt in the poor rejection of the kid), and we joke about how the kid was a tag along to my brother now that we are all adults.
In our neighborhood kids would just roam freely..never into other people's houses uninvited, but I often had friends in my room/basement, and mom would make us snacks, I would go over to other people's houses and get snacks. Toys were borrowed (and sometimes not returned). Makes me sad for my future kid that it sounds like this is a big deal nowadays :(.
Long story short, Chelsey girl, if you and your daughter don't want the kids around persistence is key. They will eventually move on to another family. I do think a quick phone call to the parents of the kids to let them know about how often they are around wouldn't hurt, they might have no idea the kids are coming over that often, or the kids could be lying and saying your daughter is inviting them over every day.
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This is a fun post to read as a future parent.
When I was younger, my younger brother (around 10 years old) had a shadow from a neighbourhood kid. This little guy (maybe 5 years old) ADORED my brother He would actually watch until my brother came home from school, and ran over all excited waiting for my brother to come out to play. My brother would sometimes not want to go outside, so mom would open the door and say "Sorry kid, brother can't come outside tonight", and even sometimes my mom would make my brother deliver the bad news. The kid would sometimes come right at our dinner time so then my mom would answer the door and say "Hey Kid, we eat dinner later than you, so if you want Brother to come out to play, you have to wait longer after your dinner". Because he was 5, this took a few times of training, but eventually he got the message. She was never rude to the kid, or his parents/family, but just said "no not right now" and sent him on his way.
Note, this kid had everything he could ever want at home, but had 2 older siblings (around my brother's age), who were very disinterested in having a little brother. But we wasn't lacking in support/love/food etc. he just wanted a bigger kid to pay him attention. Eventually he grew out of it.
Flash forward 15 years, and we are still really close friends with that family (no feelings were hurt in the poor rejection of the kid), and we joke about how the kid was a tag along to my brother now that we are all adults.
In our neighborhood kids would just roam freely..never into other people's houses uninvited, but I often had friends in my room/basement, and mom would make us snacks, I would go over to other people's houses and get snacks. Toys were borrowed (and sometimes not returned). Makes me sad for my future kid that it sounds like this is a big deal nowadays :(.
Long story short, Chelsey girl, if you and your daughter don't want the kids around persistence is key. They will eventually move on to another family. I do think a quick phone call to the parents of the kids to let them know about how often they are around wouldn't hurt, they might have no idea the kids are coming over that often, or the kids could be lying and saying your daughter is inviting them over every day.
You seem to believe I don't allow my children to play with other kids, or never allow other kids in my home. I'm not sure where you get that idea from.
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Sorry, OP, I'm just not getting it. If you don't answer the door, the kids assume you are not home so they try again later. Maybe I just live in a very different neighborhood than you and grew up in a different one too. I don't even have kids but I live in a subdivision with lots of them. The kids run through all of the backyards to get to each other's houses. If the neighbor kid's ball ends up in my yard, they just come in and get it. No need to ask permission. When I was a kid, it was the same and different families would set out drinks and snacks for us. Even the lady with no kids would leave lemonade out sometimes, just to be neighborly.
These are different times we live in. Yes, I grew up in the 70s and 80s, things were different. We don't want people roaming around in our backyard as we have a pool and you are strictly liable if you own a pool. I'm sure you know what the term strict liability means. That means even if someone trespasses in your property and is injured in, or drowns in your pool, you are responsible no matter what. And you really should be teaching your children, should you decide to have any, to ask permission before just roaming on someone's property. That's part of teaching good manners and social etiquette. If you were a parent, you would understand how hard it is to take care of 2 year old twins and a hyperactive 9 year old, without adding more kids into your home to "just drop by" whenever they feel like it, eat all your food, mess up your house while you struggle to take care of your toddlers. You'd know how much work it is to supervise children in your home. You have no idea until you have kids of your own, just what parents struggle with and why we might complain if someone's grandma brings two children over to your home, to just "drop them off" to play without giving any prior notice. This is a big HELL NO for me. Sorry but I'm not Mother Theresa. I do not have to watch anyone else's kids but my own. The comment about punishing someone's child is a joke. It would be the parent's fault not mine. If they want to keep the friendships with the girls going, they can man up and take my daughter out to lunch or a movie with their child sometime. It is long past due.
OP, your posts sound very defensive. No one has suggested that you watch anyone else kid. You should have set the boundaries that you currently prefer in the in the first place (play date by appointment made between parents). You can't control how the other parents parent and it's really none of your business. Your way forward is simple, if you want to actually reinforce the boundary. Every time they come to the door, answer it and repeat the same thing - no you cannot come in. you cannot just show up at our house, etc.
And your comments about cutting off your daughter's friend because her parents don't reciprocate your invites or generosity is just, wow. Why would you ever take another kid to restaurants and museums and expect her parents to reciprocate? That's not remotely reasonable unless you have an agreement with her parents that they would do so. And you have no idea what their finances allow, and maybe they don't want to pay for another child. That's ok.
When we invite my kids' friends somewhere, we expect to pay without a thought of reciprocation. It's nice if they sent their kids with some money, but we usually don't let him/her spend it. And we rarely take another child somewhere because we don't want to spend the money to do it. Simple as that. We also invite friends over even though it has never been reciprocated. Most people do reciprocate, but there are lots of reasons why someone can't or doesn't want to have an extra kid at their house. If you really want to know why, ask. Words are very helpful for lots of situations.
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You seem to believe I don't allow my children to play with other kids, or never allow other kids in my home. I'm not sure where you get that idea from.
Nope, that is 100% you putting words in my mouth.
Good job with the quick edit, maybe next time try editing before clicking send. I normally don't respond to passionate responses like what you had before you edited, but for some reason you struck a nerve.
I didn't mean that your OP was sad, it was a valid concern to you, and you have gotten a lot of good advice about how to deal with the kids (persistence, talk to their parents, set clear boundaries.) My only addition was that the kids may be lying to their dad and grandma so you may want to consider that before thinking the parents are taking advantage of you.
What I meant by my comment of "it is sad" that it all seems like a big deal was more so from the general responses from this thread. It makes me sad that kids in Canada can't roam freely before they are 10 years old, and that we have to be worried about other parents suing us, and that a kid seen without a parent may be reason to call CPS. It also makes me sad that we are point where parents directly talking to others people's kids ie "No Betty, Susan can't come out to play today" could turn into a big deal (either from other parents or the kids etc.)
That is what I meant by this is a "fun" thread to read because it made me realize my future kids probably won't have the same care free childhood that I grew up in due to all these new rules and fears that have popped up in the past 20 years. ...this is all stuff I wouldn't have even worried about/considered if I hadn't read this post.
But yah, maybe I'm completely off base and have no idea what I'm talking about. I'll check back in here in 9 years when I do have a kid of my own, and let you know.
Edited to change a typo. Not to modify a whole post tone
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Come on guys, don't be jerks. I think we can all agree the OP needs to use their words and not hope two little kids just get the hint. However, this doesn't need to turn into a referendum on whether or not they are a bad parent. They don't want these two girls constantly turning up and hanging around their house - that's a perfectly OK thing to want, even if it's not what you would want personally. The issue is how the OP communicates that to the girls - clearly and consistently and out loud, at her than ghosting and hoping.
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Come on guys, don't be jerks. I think we can all agree the OP needs to use their words and not hope two little kids just get the hint. However, this doesn't need to turn into a referendum on whether or not they are a bad parent. They don't want these two girls constantly turning up and hanging around their house - that's a perfectly OK thing to want, even if it's not what you would want personally. The issue is how the OP communicates that to the girls - clearly and consistently and out loud, at her than ghosting and hoping.
Who are you referring to? Most the responses have been fairly polite. The name calling is unnecessary.
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Come on guys, don't be jerks. I think we can all agree the OP needs to use their words and not hope two little kids just get the hint. However, this doesn't need to turn into a referendum on whether or not they are a bad parent. They don't want these two girls constantly turning up and hanging around their house - that's a perfectly OK thing to want, even if it's not what you would want personally. The issue is how the OP communicates that to the girls - clearly and consistently and out loud, at her than ghosting and hoping.
Being a parent is living with a constant nagging feeling of questioning yourself, and wondering if you should be doing something differently. I think that is why discussions about parenting almost always turn ugly, with both/all sides feeling a need to defending their choices.
OP can and should parent the way she wants, and set the boundaries she wants. But I don't think the other posters here are out of line in pointing out that OPs parenting choices are in fact choices, and that she shouldn't expect everyone else to intuitively understand where her boundaries are.
Sorry, OP, I'm just not getting it. If you don't answer the door, the kids assume you are not home so they try again later. Maybe I just live in a very different neighborhood than you and grew up in a different one too. I don't even have kids but I live in a subdivision with lots of them. The kids run through all of the backyards to get to each other's houses. If the neighbor kid's ball ends up in my yard, they just come in and get it. No need to ask permission. When I was a kid, it was the same and different families would set out drinks and snacks for us. Even the lady with no kids would leave lemonade out sometimes, just to be neighborly.
Dear Blonde Lawyer. I'm a mother, and I love having the house full of neighbouring kids. I know all about how much work it is supervising a horde of kids in my home, but it is a good choice for us. When I get tired of them, I send them outside to play, or back home to their parents. Some kids I send home more often than others, mainly if I catch them lying to me or breaking my rules. They still come back, and usually they behave better the second (or tenth) time around. I don't have to watch any other kids but my own, but for us, having the house full is a choice that is worth the extra trouble.
When you get kids, you are free to choose your parenting style, and set your rules in your home. Maybe you will choose OP's approach, maybe you will choose something closer to what you grew up with. There is no perfect choice, just do your best.
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I guess I don't care if they're running around outdoors playing, as long as they don't consider my home or front yard to be their territory. When I was in junior high, there was a girl who befriended me for a while just so she could get free rides home from school, from my mom. Her parents never offered gas money or reciprocated by doing favors for us, and never even invited me to their house. Eventually my mom stopped giving her rides. My daughter has a ton of friends already, though, and we don't feel we need to bend over backwards to get friends into her life.
This whole topic is tough for me for a couple of reasons.
1. You could have been talking about me up there. My parents separated/ divorced when I was in 10th grade, and I changed schools in 11th. My mom started her job really early in the morning. She had a car I couldn't drive, no bus service, so I started bumming a ride to school in the dark cold mornings, from a friend and her dad who lived nearby. I could tell, eventually, that he wasn't happy about it and wanted out of it. But I was 16-17 years old, it was the northeast in winter. 1.5 miles doesn't seem so far but it is when it's below freezing. I walked home after school when it was warmer, or walked to the bank where my mom worked and waited.
2. I'm an introvert/ extrovert. Meaning I like people (but not really kids all that much), but I *NEED* down time. My 11 year old is a social butterfly. Seriously this kid LIVES on playdates. And playdates are a PITA. We tell the 5 yo that he has to plan ahead (and at his age, he does).
So, his bed bud (a girl) lives across the street. We carpool to school. We are good friends. The vast majority of the time, he invites her over. But she doesn't always come alone, she has 2 younger sisters.
It's a balance, for me - yes, they are loud. My house is small. They make a mess. They eat a lot (I buy tortillas and cheese at Costco). And I need quiet time. So sometimes, the answer is "no, not today". Rarely do they come over after school - that's homework and family time, no exceptions unless it's the summer. On the weekend, it's only a single day. He is almost NEVER at their house because their mom doesn't like it. She needs space.
I have to be direct though.
- No, today is not a good day
- Next time call ahead and plan a time
- He's welcome to come to your house this time
- Oh, you are hungry? Then you should go home to eat.
- "What's for lunch?" "Mac and cheese". "I don't want that." "Well, that's all there is. Or an apple."
Part of me LIKES being "that house" where kids feel comfortable. I grew up "free range" but in a rural area where there were no kids my age. So there was no hanging out with other people, just running through the woods and riding my bike.
However I live by my schedule. It's a rare occasion where people can just show up and I'd be okay with it. Mostly because that's my preference. A lot of other people don't schedule, and that's there preference. To be honest, with 2 year old twins I'd simply say "no" a lot. When my younger kid was smaller, I much preferred playdates at other people's houses.
Anyway, as most others said, set boundaries, say no, and be consistent. That's all you can really do. And opening the door and saying "no" is more effective, long term, than ignoring the door.
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And your comments about cutting off your daughter's friend because her parents don't reciprocate your invites or generosity is just, wow. Why would you ever take another kid to restaurants and museums and expect her parents to reciprocate? That's not remotely reasonable unless you have an agreement with her parents that they would do so. And you have no idea what their finances allow, and maybe they don't want to pay for another child.
I do know what their finances will allow. Since you don't know them, you are the one who has no idea. The Dad makes about 3 times what my husband earns. And it's not unreasonable at all to expect them to reciprocate. It's very, very reasonable to expect reciprocity somewhere down the line. Otherwise, the relationship is one sided with me doing everything and them doing nothing. It's not fair to anyone. Like it or not, relationships are based on reciprocity. You really should consider giving back to those who have done nice things for you or your child. Otherwise, it turns into mooching. Mooching is ugly behavior.
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Most the responses have been fairly polite. The name calling is unnecessary.
There have been a few polite ones. but most of the other responses have been laced with guilt, shame and WTF is wrong with you. The reason it strikes a nerve is possibly because some parents know their own children do the same thing. After all, it's always cheaper and easier to have someone else feed and care for one's child after school.
Stay at home mothers are often guilted and pressured into providing free childcare for others, since it's assumed they just "do nothing all day long". Sometimes nannies get the brunt of this too. If other parents know a nanny or au pair works in in the household, they'll think they can just send their kids over for some free childcare (cleverly disguised as a playdate). However, nannies aren't hired to care for anyone else's children, usually per their contract, and SAHMs are just as busy as everyone else is.
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And your comments about cutting off your daughter's friend because her parents don't reciprocate your invites or generosity is just, wow. Why would you ever take another kid to restaurants and museums and expect her parents to reciprocate? That's not remotely reasonable unless you have an agreement with her parents that they would do so. And you have no idea what their finances allow, and maybe they don't want to pay for another child.
I do know what their finances will allow. Since you don't know them, you are the one who has no idea. The Dad makes about 3 times what my husband earns. And it's not unreasonable at all to expect them to reciprocate. It's very, very reasonable to expect reciprocity somewhere down the line. Otherwise, the relationship is one sided with me doing everything and them doing nothing. It's not fair to anyone. Like it or not, relationships are based on reciprocity. You really should consider giving back to those who have done nice things for you or your child. Otherwise, it turns into mooching. Mooching is ugly behavior.
Who exactly are you accusing of mooching here? I don't want to escalate this conversation any further, but I have to say that this tone is very aggressive, borderline hostile. No one in the thread has said anything to imply mooching. And who said anything about nannies or SAHMs? I'm a working parent so I considered this from a working parent's perspective. And my kids have never left the house unsupervised nor would I allow other children to drop in for an unannounced play date, which probably maybe makes me a little uptight, but I'm ok with that.
I disagree with your opinion about reciprocity in your children's friendships, completely. I think it's very unreasonable. I absolutely do not want my children's friends' parents to take my kids to restaurants and buy them things. They don't just get to decide to do that and expect me to reciprocate (they don't, btw). My kids have enough things and they don't need to go to restaurants. If the other parents don't reciprocate after the first time, it was your choice to stop paying for things. If your daughter wants to end the friendship, ok, but otherwise this seems pretty drastic.
And I never claimed to know anything about your neighbor's finances, nor would I claim to know anything about my own neighbors even if I was aware of their salary. Because I have no idea what other financial constraints they may be under. You also don't get to decide whether someone else's finances will "allow" them to pay for stuff for your kid.
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And who said anything about nannies or SAHMs? I'm a working parent so I considered this from a working parent's perspective.
That's the problem. The perspective of some working parents is to see SAHMS as free babysitters and get upset when they find out the SAHM may not be able to or might be too tired. Or might resent having other people dropping their kids off un-announced at their home.
I ultimately get to decide if someone hasn't reciprocated, that I am not okay with that anymore, especially when it's gone on for years and never once has this Dad offered to take my child somewhere or even let her come into his house. After we've entertained his daughter repeatedly. His behavior seems self-absorbed at this point and I'm just done with it. I find it rude my kid can't even come into his house when we've taken his daughter to movies, restaurants, let her sleep over at our house. He has one child, we have 3 so it's a lot more work for us to have his child come over. I feel the same thing with anyone else who constantly wants favors but never returns them. These people are moochers. I'm not sure why that word strikes a nerve. Go ahead and keep judging me, it's not going to build you as a person, and it won't build your character.
Oh and even a 9 year old thinks it's weird that she's had a friend for six years but never seen her house or even knows where she lives. Not sure how to answer questions about that to my own child.
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There are two girls at my daughter's school she is sort of friends with.They ride their bikes over to the house several times, just knock on the door, we'd let them in the first few times, to play for a while, then called their dad to come get them. These girls are sisters about 7 and 8, my daughter is 9. We decided to put a stop to it, as they would eat all the food in the fridge and didn't want to leave. The problem is, they still do this, just show up, bang on the door. It's started getting dark earlier now and I don't think they should be out riding around on their bikes, just my opinion, but I also don't want them coming in the house anymore on school nights and without prior arrangements being made for play dates. They will also follow my car home from school on their bikes, they come over, stalk the house, my daughter has started drawing the curtains closed, as she doesn't like their aggressive need for attention. Although she is friendly with them at school and on the playground after school. I also don't want them in my home all the time, I know that sounds totally selfish but I have young toddlers in my home also. It's too many kids in the house to watch after. So one day a week ago, these two girls came over and their grandmother was with them and she said she was "dropping them off to play" and this was absent of any prior agreement. I told her I couldn't let them come in the house. One of the girls came over just today banging on our door and wouldn't leave for 10 minutes. Then called my daughter on the phone mad at her, for not answering the door. Should we talk to their parents or just let this go for a while until they get the hint?
Maybe, or just tell the kids they can come on Saturday or whenever but not during the week.
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Tell your daughter that she needs to solve this problem ASAP or she's only getting a can of SPAM for Christmas! ;)
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The more you post,OP, the more it is clear where the problem is.
Many of us are SAHM's. I am loling that you think this has something to do with being a SAHM.
It's you. Examine yourself.
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Should we talk to their parents or just let this go for a while until they get the hint?
Talk to the parents or the kids, but please don't go the "get a hint" route with kids.
Growing up, I had two friends in the neighborhood, and we'd randomly go to each others houses depending on what we wanted to do. Sometimes just two of us, sometimes all three.
Best friend's mother got remarried and she ended up with two older (by 1 and 2 years) step sisters. We still played while her parents dated, but once they got married, every time I went over I was just told "I can't play right now". So, a day or two later, I'd knock on the door again.
Eventually, my best friend told me "I'm not allowed to play with you anymore". It hurt, but I never knocked on her door again, or talked to her at school, and eventually they moved away (though still in the same town/school).
Much later, I found out there were two reasons for me not being allowed to play with her-- one was that my dad was a cop and the new husband was not the most upright standing citizen, and didn't want me to "tell on him". Second was that one of the step-sisters was jealous of our friendship, so the mom thought removing me from the equation would help the girls bond better.
Their reasons were their reasons, but I didn't know I was no longer welcome until I was actually told that I was no longer welcome. To this day, I hate it when people get mad that someone "won't take the hint", or doesn't magically "figure it out" when there is a new change to the rules. Just say what you need to say and be done with it.
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And who said anything about nannies or SAHMs? I'm a working parent so I considered this from a working parent's perspective.
That's the problem. The perspective of some working parents is to see SAHMS as free babysitters and get upset when they find out the SAHM may not be able to or might be too tired. Or might resent having other people dropping their kids off un-announced at their home.
I ultimately get to decide if someone hasn't reciprocated, that I am not okay with that anymore, especially when it's gone on for years and never once has this Dad offered to take my child somewhere or even let her come into his house. After we've entertained his daughter repeatedly. His behavior seems self-absorbed at this point and I'm just done with it. I find it rude my kid can't even come into his house when we've taken his daughter to movies, restaurants, let her sleep over at our house. He has one child, we have 3 so it's a lot more work for us to have his child come over. I feel the same thing with anyone else who constantly wants favors but never returns them. These people are moochers. I'm not sure why that word strikes a nerve. Go ahead and keep judging me, it's not going to build you as a person, and it won't build your character.
Oh and even a 9 year old thinks it's weird that she's had a friend for six years but never seen her house or even knows where she lives. Not sure how to answer questions about that to my own child.
What do you mean by "strikes a nerve" here? It may be a reference to me asking you to clarify a prior comment that I didn't understand? Is that indicative of something striking a nerve? I think you said something similar to other posters who expressed disagreement with your opinion. Should that similarly be interpreted as striking a nerve?
Also, who are the working moms that see SAHMs as babysitters? I don't understand how that fits into the discussion about neighbors.
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Also, who are the working moms that see SAHMs as babysitters? I don't understand how that fits into the discussion about neighbors.
Other parents know which moms are home after school. It becomes known. Plenty of other moms and dads see SAHMS as babysitters. In fact, there was a post on this board about it a while back. A poster was confused why his SAHM neighbor sold Avon, but wouldn't babysit for him. That's just one example but there are plenty of people who hold the same viewpoint. They just assume if a woman is home all day with her kids, she'll let other kids come over and watch them.
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Also, who are the working moms that see SAHMs as babysitters? I don't understand how that fits into the discussion about neighbors.
Other parents know which moms are home after school. It becomes known. Plenty of other moms and dads see SAHMS as babysitters. In fact, there was a post on this board about it a while back. A poster was confused why his SAHM neighbor sold Avon, but wouldn't babysit for him. That's just one example but there are plenty of people who hold the same viewpoint. They just assume if a woman is home all day with her kids, she'll let other kids come over and watch them.
I assume you are referring to my post below. In which I offered my neighbor $15 an hour to do babysitt after school?
Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy / Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« on: August 14, 2017, 09:49:39 PM »
Quote from: BeanCounter on August 14, 2017, 10:33:27 AM
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.
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I am not sure what the laws are here. They are the only kids in the area who do this, run around after school, all over the neighborhood. They have gone into other people's homes when the front door was unlocked. We have after-school care here until 6 pm. but I suppose their parents can't afford to pay for it. They came over just yesterday, ringing the doorbell, and it was after 5 pm. and it's getting dark earlier now. We didn't answer the door. It's the third time they've come by this week. We have called their parents in the past, who were just sitting at home watching tv. They said their children knew what time to come back home. They might be "free range" kids and their parents are okay with this, so all I'm going to do now is not answer the door.
I've known those children. They wander the neighborhood looking for families who'll give them a meal and let them hang out and watch TV a while. These are also the parents who put their kids into church youth group, scouts, and 4H for the sake of the overnight trips ... then they send them without sleeping bags and won't come pick the kids up after the trip.
Also, I have now a lot of experience with telling visiting kids: "It's rude to do X" or "We don't do X in our home", or even "If you keep doing X, I will tell your parents to bring you home right away. And that would be too bad, because I want you to stay!" Such unacceptable behaviors include entering our house without ringing the doorbell, opening cabinets or refrigerators without permission, or making a mess.
Be sure to include touching computers in this list. One of my kids had a friend who'd come over and sit down at our family desktop. Uh, no. First, that's MINE. Second, I'm not supervising a kids' playdate so you can play online games while my kid plays alone.
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The more you post,OP, the more it is clear where the problem is.
Many of us are SAHM's. I am loling that you think this has something to do with being a SAHM.
It's you. Examine yourself.
Yeah, I am not getting this vibe so much. Okay, OP is dialing down on her position and definitely getting defensive. But I read KaypinkPh's post (sp?) and I know what she is talking about for going over to someone's home, playing in their room, etc.
But you know what? Those were all the mannered kids. In my day, we did not make a deliberate mess of the washroom, we did not go to the kitchen and ask the adult for food, we deliberately stayed out of the adult areas of the home and away from the mom, we did not roughhouse inside the home, and we always left when our curfew / time was up (before 5pm). Sometimes we would politely ask to use the phone to call for a ride home... sometimes we said thank-you. Often I did not even see the parent.
My daughter has had a few friends like that, too.
BUT -- I have come across a couple of kids similar to that OP describes, and folks, those kids are hella irritating and triple the workload by the mess and chaos left behinds. This is not nicely playing in the bedroom, this is having to do toy pickup in every room they have been in, plus the demands for food that "nice" people end up agreeing to.
The fact that OP put up with this for so long is evidence of her patience and general agreement that sometimes a bit of effort is needed to support her child's friendships. But man, some children are capable of irritating every nerve, especially on those of us that are not blunt and direct by nature.
The only way to solve it would be to be blunt and direct. Sounds like OP would be ok if there was reciprocity, too bad one can't just say that the kids.
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Come on guys, don't be jerks. I think we can all agree the OP needs to use their words and not hope two little kids just get the hint. However, this doesn't need to turn into a referendum on whether or not they are a bad parent. They don't want these two girls constantly turning up and hanging around their house - that's a perfectly OK thing to want, even if it's not what you would want personally. The issue is how the OP communicates that to the girls - clearly and consistently and out loud, at her than ghosting and hoping.
Who are you referring to? Most the responses have been fairly polite. The name calling is unnecessary.
It's not name calling. It's a reference to forum rule 1: Don't be a jerk. And yep, most of the responses have been fairly polite but I think we can raise the bar a bit here! Some of the responses have gone way outside the scope of the original question and basically called the OP a bad person for not wanting to feed and entertain someone else's children. Whatever you think about the benefits of free range kids or adult reciprocity in child friendships, there's no need for some of the accusations which have been flying around. They asked a question about stopping these kids knocking on their door, not for an in-depth analysis on why they are a bad parent, selfish person and don't contribute to their community.
I've been reminded of forum rule 1 myself in the past and have used it as a helpful reminder to sit back and wonder if I want to get this angry at a tiny slice of an Internet stranger's life, and whether the tone I used was appropriate or whether I could have said the same thing in a kinder way.
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IMO the OP is NOT obligated to play host to other people's kids all the time. Or even be nice about it. If those kids hang around like they're the OP's kids all the time, the OP becomes their de facto parent. This isn't good for anyone both in terms of responsibility, values learning or liability.
People IMO, tend to have way too cloying opinions about kids vs. how they are. In my childhood memories most of my peers were merely innocently irresponsible at best and utter psychopaths at worst - including me. Often channeling whatever their parents' traumas and values shortcomings. Especially in when in groups.
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If we stick to the original question of how to make these annoying kids go away, the answer is tell them. They don't know otherwise, and hiding and hoping they go away is not going to help.
When I was a kid I was allowed to play on the street with my friends, within view of my house at first and later my range expanded. But if I wanted to have friends over, I had to ask and our parents had to confirm. It's not unreasonable to have rules, but you have to clearly state them and enforce them if you want them to stick.
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There is a huge gap between kids being annoying to a neighbor and kids being neglected and bringing in CPS. Where I live, many school age children, 5 and up, play at each others' yards or houses without pre-arrangement. (And I've clearly told my next door neighbors it's fine if the soccer or frisbee game spills into my yard.) but not all families do this. Some do not think it's safe. And as a working mom myself I had my child at after school care on days I worked unless there was an arranged play date. Parents get to make these choices, but children may not understand that other parents make different choices.
If you want children or adults in your home, invite them. If you don't, tell them you will call them when you want to get together. set whatever rules you want. In my house, I told all incoming children, "we don't wear shoes in this house." They were fine with it.
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I think that you're making a mistake by modelling avoidance for your daughter (not answering the door, dodging the girls) instead of direct and firm boundaries.
As another poster has suggested, just open the door and say, "Sally doesn't want to play today." "I don't want guests." It's better if you teach your daughter to do it, but you can do it too.
Then they'll go away and not knock on your door for 10 minutes. Yes, you might have to do it every day if there's something really wrong with them, but it'll take you 10 seconds.
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IMO the OP is NOT obligated to play host to other people's kids all the time. Or even be nice about it. If those kids hang around like they're the OP's kids all the time, the OP becomes their de facto parent.
That's the concern I have regarding liability. I don't want to be a de facto parent. This child has called my husband on his cell phone. I told my husband "if that kid ever goes missing, you'll be getting a phone call from the police, since your phone number is in her cell phone log".
My child has had tons of kids begging her for play dates, to come to her b-day party, etc. We had 30 kids show up at her party, some of the parents were dropping off the younger siblings, something I hadn't expected. So we're constantly having to set boundaries or figure out rules. And how to work play time into our schedule of other activities. I also understand some parents can't relate to the problem because their kids may not have many, or any, friends at all. So they don't really face these same issues, and they can't empathize.
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And who said anything about nannies or SAHMs? I'm a working parent so I considered this from a working parent's perspective.
That's the problem. The perspective of some working parents is to see SAHMS as free babysitters and get upset when they find out the SAHM may not be able to or might be too tired. Or might resent having other people dropping their kids off un-announced at their home.
I ultimately get to decide if someone hasn't reciprocated, that I am not okay with that anymore, especially when it's gone on for years and never once has this Dad offered to take my child somewhere or even let her come into his house. After we've entertained his daughter repeatedly. His behavior seems self-absorbed at this point and I'm just done with it. I find it rude my kid can't even come into his house when we've taken his daughter to movies, restaurants, let her sleep over at our house. He has one child, we have 3 so it's a lot more work for us to have his child come over. I feel the same thing with anyone else who constantly wants favors but never returns them. These people are moochers. I'm not sure why that word strikes a nerve. Go ahead and keep judging me, it's not going to build you as a person, and it won't build your character.
Oh and even a 9 year old thinks it's weird that she's had a friend for six years but never seen her house or even knows where she lives. Not sure how to answer questions about that to my own child.
This is not a SAHM vs working mom thing, so don't turn it into that. (Certain individual people can be that way, but unless you've expressly heard someone say that, don't assume it).
This is:
- A "free range" thing vs. a "schedule" thing.
- A "fine hosting kids" vs. a "don't like to host kids" thing.
- A "likes to be at home" vs. "likes to travel/ go elsewhere" thing.
I understand the disappointment in lack of reciprocity. I really do. It bugs me (sometimes) when relationships are one-sided. But, ultimately, it's up to ME to decide what I'm willing to do, without anyone else owing me anything.
We take our kids' friends out to lunch with us sometimes. We don't expect them to pay us. We are going to do something fun, and especially if it's a get together with the 5 year old's friends, I'll happily pay for lunch for my 11 year old's buddy so he has someone to play with. No you don't need to send money. Fine if you do. Vice versa. If my son is going to a fair or a movie or out with a friend, I will send him with money. But I'm fine if he comes home with it and I'm not keeping score.
However, I can afford that AND I've chosen a frequency of these types of play dates that I'm comfortable with. It's a few times a year. I'd never get into the regular habit of going out to lunch on Saturdays and bringing my kid's friend. I'm not comfortable with that.
Working parents AND SAHPs can be "free range" and "schedulers", and my friends are every combination. I MISS OUT on a lot of last minute get-togethers because I don't have that lifestyle or personality. I get to ENJOY our regularly scheduled neighborhood potlucks because I like a schedule!
Some families like going out and being away from home a LOT more than I do. That's a factor too.
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IMO the OP is NOT obligated to play host to other people's kids all the time. Or even be nice about it. If those kids hang around like they're the OP's kids all the time, the OP becomes their de facto parent.
That's the concern I have regarding liability. I don't want to be a de facto parent. This child has called my husband on his cell phone. I told my husband "if that kid ever goes missing, you'll be getting a phone call from the police, since your phone number is in her cell phone log".
My child has had tons of kids begging her for play dates, to come to her b-day party, etc. We had 30 kids show up at her party, some of the parents were dropping off the younger siblings, something I hadn't expected. So we're constantly having to set boundaries or figure out rules. And how to work play time into our schedule of other activities. I also understand some parents can't relate to the problem because their kids may not have many, or any, friends at all. So they don't really face these same issues, and they can't empathize.
And now people can't empathize with your problem because their kids don't have enough friends?
Just set some rules, tell people (adult and children) what your rules are and enforce the rules as necessary.
And re-read your posts before you hit the button. Ouch.
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Holy fuckballs, you are some kind of asshole sorry,that is probably against forum rules. Let me repharse.
What an absolutely hurtful, rude, and unkind thing to say, my mind is honestly boggled.
[MOD NOTE: Forum Rule #1.]
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Holy fuckballs, you are some kind of asshole sorry,that is probably against forum rules. Let me repharse.
What an absolutely hurtful, rude, and unkind thing to say, my mind is honestly boggled.
That is definitely against forum rules, and using strike through text doesn't make it better.
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Holy fuckballs, you are some kind of asshole sorry,that is probably against forum rules. Let me repharse.
What an absolutely hurtful, rude, and unkind thing to say, my mind is honestly boggled.
That is definitely against forum rules, and using strike through text doesn't make it better.
Sorry not sorry, that was an asshole thing to say.
I'll admit she rubbed me wrong since the OP, but that last is so far over the edge that it isn't even funny.
She can fuck right off with that "so sorry your child has no friends" bullshit.
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Holy fuckballs, you are some kind of asshole sorry,that is probably against forum rules. Let me repharse.
What an absolutely hurtful, rude, and unkind thing to say, my mind is honestly boggled.
That is definitely against forum rules, and using strike through text doesn't make it better.
Sorry not sorry, that was an asshole thing to say.
I'll admit she rubbed me wrong since the OP, but that last is so far over the edge that it isn't even funny.
She can fuck right off with that "so sorry your child has no friends" bullshit.
If you think her behaviour is against forum rules, hit the report to moderator button.
When we engage in name calling and other behaviour that violates the forum rules (especially #1 - don't be a jerk) it drags down the value of this forum.
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I have to tell you, I was thrilled when two neighbors moved in with boys close in age to ours. I introduced myself, we exchanged numbers, and we set ground rules. Like we're never available on Thursday afternoons. They're not available on Mondays. Weekends are generally family time, but we each can feel free to pop over snd ask if anyone wants to play. Kids all return home way before dinner. I don't offer snacks, but I've recently found out that my 5 yo will eat the whole time if they let him. So I told the other mom to cut him off, or not feed him.
Sometimes we text - hey, send the kids home please, or hey do you all want to walk to the park? We each feel comfortable telling the kids to go home or go outside whenever we need them to. It works, talking, communicating with each other (kids and adults).
I would be heartbroken if one of these moms started being mean to my kid/defriending because we didn't get a hint. It would hurt because my oldest is one of those kids that is genius-goofy, and he doesn't have a ton of friends. We'd both want to know if there was some boundary we were inadvertently crossing.
I hope you work it out without much trouble. It sounds like you're overwhelmed, and don't blame you at all for wanting quiet.
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To most kids, "unanswered door" means nothing more than "no one home or otherwise available to answer". So it isn't going to deter them. They will keep coming.
If you just don't want them to come in your home, that's fine. But if you want them to actually stop coming over and knocking for 10 minutes at a time, you are going to need to step up and say something. What, exactly, that "something" is depends on what you want, and what your daughter wants. If you are willing to have your daughter play outside with them and she wants to do that, then tell them, "Sorry, from now on, there's no inside play here. Would you like me to ask Susie if she wants to play outside with you? Also, she has to be home and back inside by the time it is dark." Decide where your line is, convey that, and repeat. If, after a few repetitions, it has no effect, you might need to let their parents know. "We've let Jane and Joan know this, but it doesn't seem to be getting through, so I wanted to drop by and let you know. With little ones home, it's just too much for me to have all these kids playing inside, so we've set a rule that Susie can only play outside, and only until dark. I just wanted to let you know and maybe ask you to remind Joan and Jane of that if they tell you they are going to come over to play."
Or maybe your rule is no playing at all on weeknights. Or no playing with the same kid more than once a week. Or whatever it is. (Personally, since these kids haven't done anything so awful, I think that excluding them from playing with your daughter at all is over the top. If your daughter wants that, you need to help her and work with her so she can figure out how to politely and kindly distance herself from them at school. If she doesn't, then I think applying more or less the same rules to these kids as you do to others is appropriate. Decide what those are, convey them clearly and without exceptions for Jane and Joan, and let their parents know the rules as well.
Yes, it's uncomfortable. Adulting is so friggin hard sometimes, especially for those who, like me, are avoiders by nature. But for now, it seems like you are upset because they are breaking rules they don't know exist. Yes, they are behaving outside of generally accepted manners. But all kids do that about all things, until someone teaches them better. While it's not your job to teach them life skills, if you want them to display a specific life skill when interacting with you, you are going to have to.
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I read through most of this thread, and while some of us would like to say, "Hey, this is just like the 1980s! Lighten up!", we're clearly dealing with something else here.
Yes, it was fine, back in 1980s, for kids to just run up to your house, knock on the door, and say, "Can Toque come out to play?" If I could, my parents would say 'yes'. If I answered the door, I would ask my parents and, unless we had dinner nearly ready or intended a trip to a grandparent, the answer would be yes.
Children playing together does not need to be formalized and planned into a "play date". Spontaneous social interaction is fine, especially if it's happening outside and they're getting exercise.
That, however, has nothing to do with the OP's post. We are talking about children walking into her house without permission, children who have unusually high demands for food, drink and whatnot. The children do not take no for an answer ("Sorry, Mike has to practice guitar right now" or "We're having dinner") and the OP's kid is hiding out in the house because she doesn't want to deal with them. Besides that, if the grandmother in question is actually planning on leaving the kids while she goes out somewhere, *that* absolutely has to be planned in advance - or at least permission requested.
No, this isn't normal. No, these visiting children are not polite - and it seems that this comes from their parents.
Toque.
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A lot of advice since then has been "here's how you opt out."
Opting out or "being obligated to opt out" seems unacceptable to the OP, so it goes back to "I shouldn't have to."
Unfortunately, that's an infinite feedback loop. No, you shouldn't have to, but that's not the point. I think most would agree with OP on rude kids being a burden. The grandmother's "introduction" was appalling and completely unacceptable. And, teaching those you interact with (in any stage of life) what your boundaries are will just always be the most effective way to get those boundaries respected. It's also the method that gives you the most control.
Sure, you probably shouldn't have to deal with this, but there are lots of things we shouldn't have to deal with that nonetheless are there waiting for us - it's for that we look for advice, no? It doesn't help you or your daughter to have a burst of anxiety when the kids pound on the door, and the kids won't stop on their own. If it causes a similar amount of stress to confront them with boundaries, then other posters may just not understand your level of anxiety. That notwithstanding, the kids really are unlikely to react in the way you want without something more direct.
Good luck with this.
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OP, I had that experience in my previous town. I was blown away.
Kids we knew or didn't know would:
*bang (and I mean bang) on the door for up to ten minutes at a time
*if they smashed on the door and determined we were home, they would walk around the house to peer in the windows
*if our curtains were closed, they would stand outside a window and call in "I know you're home!"
*if we didn't respond to any of this, they would circle back every few minutes and start again
*if our door was open, they would walk all the way in...as far in as the back bedroom
I found this absolutely bizarre.
I had seen this with no other children, in no other place, in my entire life.
Some were kids from great families, some were very very very neglected. Treatment at home wasn't the commonality.
What seemed to be in common was: parents sending kids out with no information about boundaries and decorum.
When I didn't want this happening, I put a sign on the door ("Resting, please do not disturb." Or, "Please knock only once."). Some of the kids were up to age 12 and able to read. They did the above stuff anyway. I asked them why they did this after reading the sign. They didn't know.
The ones who couldn't read, I taught how to knock. "Come stand in our house. I will go outside and knock how you are knocking. Tell me how you feel when I knock like that." Scared, they said. "Right. If my house is not on fire, do not knock like that." That eliminated the bashing.
If the kids were very small and I knew who their parents were, I talked to them. "Please talk to your kid. Please ask them to knock just once a day, and gently." This reduced the knockings to 3x a day per kid.
Finally, I asked the kids to text first. That finally did the trick. They just couldn't understand or remember things like appropriate behaviour once they'd crossed into the yard. Texting brought their parents into the interaction (they had to ask their parents for the phone).
It was a long process for me to figure out what would work. I agree with the posters that say you need to be straightforward to the point of brief and blunt. But ultimately, in my case the only thing that worked was forcing their parents into the request-making process, by requiring the kids to text us.
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Hi ChelseyGirl. I totally get where you’re coming from. There’s a difference between kids dropping in once in a while, and kids who are at your house all the time. We have a couple kids in our neighborhood who showed up all the time, played rough, and ate all my food. No reciprocation. No effort from the parents to build any kind of a relationship. They started barging into the house when the door was unlocked an$ banging loudly on the door when we didn’t answer. I finally had to break out the “mom” voice and say “If we don’t answer the door, after the first knock, we are not able to play. And you alyways need to knock.”
There’s a difference between building a community and taking advantage of others. It gets really hard because those who are focused on building a community can get sucked in to giving more than they can. At that point, I think it’s ok to stand up and set boundaries. It’s not easy, but we can’t carry the world all the time, even if we’d like to.
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I suppose it's because I don't have kids that I'd even consider the following:
1. If living in a conservative, WASP community, telling visiting children the household password is "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" and coaching them to say it properly (check YouTube for how). Impress that when The Great Old Ones return knowing this will provide further benefit - of a sort. Send a missive home to the parents with the children asserting this.
2. In a liberal community, sending them home with Jack Chic pamphlets to "save them and their parents' souls from eternal damnation."
3. Ask the Grandma if she supports the 2nd Amendment and look miffed/act condescending if she does anything but display her concealed carry pistol. Lecture her on its importance. Casually mention the extensive firearms and ammunition collection in your home are "free range" for instant access in case of surprise home invasion by (insert paranoid fantasy here).
4. Ask if it's OK that "Uncle Bob" be the kids' caretaker while you're out on business. "Uncle Bob" is a sweet guy, totally harmless, who's just in between homes while he deals with his leprosy. Yeah, that's why there's a plastic sheet over the couch.
5. Answer the door for inconsiderate grandma dressed in (depending on best effect): Bondage gear, Klan sheets, Nazi memorabilia, Antifa black with matching kerchief (don't forget the sickle & hammer accessories), stark naked, or looking stark naked but extravagantly layered Kool Whip.
6. Announce that the first babysitting was free. All future visits longer than 30 minutes will be charged at $30 an hour. Or, based on your work experience, more. Plus fees due to insurance requirements, zoning, child safety regulations and handling. Cost of food taken from the fridge will be added to charges at 50% over retail due to time/money/fuel lost replacing it. Items eaten will be charged for in full despite partial consumption. Offer a contract they must sign agreeing to this with a mention of a civil suit for failure to abide by it.
7. Give them a waiver to sign excusing you for liability for their kids. Make it super comprehensive, covering every possible thing that might happen to their children in your care from slips, trips, and falls to transforming into a Deep One and requiring a seafood only diet.
8. Mention proud accomplishments to grandma. Include an anecdote about having Child Protective Services remove a child from parents for neglect. Phrase it like you're a proud self righteous childrens' advocate. Supply details suggesting you blew shit totally out of proportion, even lied, to force CPS's hand.
9. Announce you have a roach infestation. And that you'll be bug bombing the house every day till they're gone. But the safety warnings about not being inside while the aerosol goes off, cleaning kitchen utensils afterwards, or removing/covering food is just too troublesome. All those safety warnings on the cans are just shit lawyers added because some dumb ass huffed a can after he licked a toad or something.
Meh. Perhaps I should never have kids.
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EricL's post reminded me of a sign outside a toy store nearby:
Children left unattended will be given either an espresso or a puppy.