Author Topic: 529 or regular index account to save for college?  (Read 13241 times)

steviesterno

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529 or regular index account to save for college?
« on: February 18, 2016, 06:06:32 AM »
hey all,

we had our son almost 3 weeks ago, so I'm already about 2 weeks late getting this set up by MMM standards. but we're currently trying to decide the best option for investing for the kiddo's college expenses, and deciding between 529s and a regular account.

the 529 tax benefit doesn't help us much now, because we don't have a state income tax. but the not ever paying taxes on growth for educational expenses seems like a great deal. I understand if he doesn't go to college or gets a free ride, I could switch this to another kid or even use it for continuing education for myself. I hear you can use them to take educational trips, but not sure if that's true. The bad part is if he does go to school cheap I would pay all the taxes and a 10% penalty to roll it into my retirement.

the standard fund seems worse (pay taxes every year) but then you can pull the money out and use it tax free. And, you can use it on anything. so if he gets a scholarship or whatever, we can buy an investment house with it, or add to retirement, or help him start his life.

so what's the best way to do it? I don't think it's a smart move to hinder my retirement to help his school, but I'm sure I can finagle $100/month and help him out later. what do you suggest?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2016, 06:43:00 AM »
The scholarship part is pretty easy. I got full-tuition to private undergrad, but I still had to buy books, a computer and pay for program fees and housing. All of those are qualified 529 expenses. Unless you're Scrooge McDuck, just put a modest amount in the 529 and try to keep the fees low. Direct other money to more general savings/investment accounts and don't worry too much about it.

little_brown_dog

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2016, 06:45:20 AM »
There's no best way really - it's all about what you think it more useful for your specific circumstances. We chose the 529 because...

1. Tax free growth
2. Plan on multiple kids (chances are at least one of them will use it!)
3. The 10% penalty and taxes don't bother us if we end up with excess cash. We plan on using any excesses to help the kids with a downpayment on a home or a car.
4. I may want to go back to school at some point - if so, I can just use any excess for myself without penalty.

The likelihood that we will have excess is probably pretty low given the rising cost of college and the fact that we want multiple kids. So for us, it's smarter to take advantage of the tax free growth.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 06:47:43 AM by little_brown_dog »

steviesterno

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2016, 07:34:43 AM »
I'm worrying about it more than average probably because of my circumstances. my dad worked at a university, so I could have lived at home and gone for free but decided to strike out on my own. Graduated with help from my parents to be debt free, but worked the whole time.

Then for my doctorate I moved across the country and took out loans. You have to, it was expensive. Graduated 160k in debt, and due to not making the best decisions when I was a new graduate I'm still about there, but working significantly harder to make them go away.

I currently have the benefit of working at a University, so if I stay here and peanut decides to come here, he can do his whole education for free. Plus I get to take anything I want here for free, which is mostly field-specific training.
I don't want my kid to be in the same situationI was in, even if it was my fault.

Disclaimer: I really appreciate all the help from my parents in undergrad, and while the doctorate was expensive, I couldn't have this job I love without it. So it's been worth it to me.

JROH

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2016, 09:36:57 AM »
Also keep in mind that you could transfer unused funds to grandchildren eventually as well (I believe).  Think about the benefits of compounding in that situation!  And I'm sure that your children would be grateful for it even though they wouldn't directly benefit; their good fortune (ie, scholarships, etc) would reduce your children's burden to provide for your potential future grandchildren.   



steviesterno

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 02:14:24 PM »
Also keep in mind that you could transfer unused funds to grandchildren eventually as well (I believe).  Think about the benefits of compounding in that situation!  And I'm sure that your children would be grateful for it even though they wouldn't directly benefit; their good fortune (ie, scholarships, etc) would reduce your children's burden to provide for your potential future grandchildren.

oh yeah, good point... $25 a week over 40 years is $310,000! probably won't be that impressive in 40 years but would sure help some grandkids. Or maybe it gives me the chance to go back for my PhD.

Can you buy a house with a 529 if the student lives in it to go to school? It can cover rent, so can I give it to the kid to pay me back in rent which i use to pay off the house?

charis

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 02:37:33 PM »
Also keep in mind that you could transfer unused funds to grandchildren eventually as well (I believe).  Think about the benefits of compounding in that situation!  And I'm sure that your children would be grateful for it even though they wouldn't directly benefit; their good fortune (ie, scholarships, etc) would reduce your children's burden to provide for your potential future grandchildren.

oh yeah, good point... $25 a week over 40 years is $310,000! probably won't be that impressive in 40 years but would sure help some grandkids. Or maybe it gives me the chance to go back for my PhD.

Can you buy a house with a 529 if the student lives in it to go to school? It can cover rent, so can I give it to the kid to pay me back in rent which i use to pay off the house?

Yeah, being able to pass to transfer to grandchildren is a great feature.  I know I would love for my parents to pull out 529s for my kids :)   I don't know about the house question.  Could you buy a house, rent it to your child and have them pay the rent using the 529 funds?  That would be great, but it sounds like a red flag to me.

CanuckExpat

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 10:33:06 PM »
Is it safe to assume you are maxing out all tax advantaged accounts available to you: 401k, IRA/ROTH, Mega Back door Roth? If not, do that before 529 or taxable account.

What kind of investments are you thinking of holding in the college savings fund? If they are tax inefficient, i.e. bonds, REITs, etc, then the tax drag might be a reason to consider some 529. If you are going to be all tax efficient with equity index funds, there won't be a huge hit in the taxable account, and you could always gift the stock to the child later to pay for college and let them worry about the capital gains at their lower income :)

If your child gets a scholarship that pays for school, I think that's one case where the 529 works out great for you, because in case of a scholarship you can withdraw without the 10% penalty, and you've had several years of tax deferred growth.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 10:34:44 PM by CanuckExpat »

abhe8

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 11:37:23 PM »
How much can you put in a 529 per year per child?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2016, 05:50:27 AM »
How much can you put in a 529 per year per child?

The limits are a little screwy, because you have all these interactions between state and federal rules. It also depends on who actually owns the account, because gift tax limits can come into play too.

https://us.axa.com/goals/saving-for-college/articles/529-plans-contributions-withdrawls.html

emilypsf

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2016, 08:45:56 AM »
To me it would depend entirely on the rest of your finances and how likely you think it is that your child will go to the school where you work.  Since you have a doctorate, I'd feel comfortable enough to risk the penalty in the assumption that your child will go to college.

gluskap

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2016, 09:11:00 AM »
We're kind of doing both.  We opened up a 529 where we put a moderate amount in but the rest of it is saved and lumped in with our general taxable brokerage account.  We figured out roughly the minimum she would need for perhaps living expenses if she got a full scholarship or to cover tuition if she went to a state university and lived with us at home.  If she ends up with a more expensive option we could pull from our taxable to cover the difference.  If she ended up getting a full scholarship to a state university and still lived with us at home, we could roll the benefit to our niece or nephew or future grandchildren. 

garion

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2016, 11:10:46 AM »
The 10% penalty doesn't apply if you take money out up to the amount of a scholarship. So that is an option if your kid gets a scholarship. You'd still have to pay income tax on the earnings in that case, but depending on specifics you might be able to pay tax in your kid's name (presumably lower tax bracket).

KisKis

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2016, 03:02:44 PM »
I chose to go the regular index account route because our state's 529 plan doesn't seem that great.  The expense ratio and fees for the 529 are higher than Vanguard, even though it holds the same funds, because of the middle management layer.  I have read that 529 savings accounts really hurt financial aid consideration, but I don't know how to quantify the impact without a crystal ball and a better understanding of how financial aid is calculated.  DH and I also both went through private university on full scholarships, and our siblings who went to state school ended up making money because the scholarships covered full tuition, housing, and gave stipends for books and computers.  I'm gambling on the fact that I don't think we will need significant funds to put the kids through college, but it's definitely a gamble.  We'll have enough in our taxable savings to cover tuition for our two kids, but I guess I prefer the flexibility of taxable savings to locking savings in a fund that has subpar performance.  My recommendation is to research your particular state's 529 options.  It's really a case-by-case evaluation.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 03:04:48 PM by KisKis »

CanuckExpat

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 05:08:32 PM »
I chose to go the regular index account route because our state's 529 plan doesn't seem that great
...
My recommendation is to research your particular state's 529 options.  It's really a case-by-case evaluation.

You can invest in any 529 plan, not only the one provided by your state.

trashmanz

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 09:36:13 PM »
Can someone clarify. If you don't use the money for kids education you have to pay tax on all the gains AND a 10 percent penalty?  And the 10 percent penalty is on the total amount or just the gains?

steviesterno

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 08:05:46 AM »
Can someone clarify. If you don't use the money for kids education you have to pay tax on all the gains AND a 10 percent penalty?  And the 10 percent penalty is on the total amount or just the gains?

you pay income tax on the gains, and the 10% penalty I believe is on everything. But I'm still reading up on all of it.

It looks like I can set up a 529 through vanguard, which has the lowest fees around.

I'm not too worried about limits, it seems like you can't contribute once your account has like $390k in it, which I can't imagine I ever get to. not sure about a second kid, we're 3 weeks in and i'm barely surviving. but I know that's what everyone says, so we shall see.

I'm not quite maxing out everything (403, roth, etc). we're working on paying off our house we bought a year ago, and working on my crazy student loans. almost $1000/month for me there, so that's one of the driving inspirational factors for getting this set up.

MayDay

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 10:16:01 AM »
We are doing both, because it isn't cut and dried (can't really ever be until its too late- kids plans change, plus the costs are a big ???).

We have 529's from a relative, that will likely pay 1.5-2 years of college by the time they are college age.  We figure this is "enough" in a 529- if one kids doesn't go to college, we would still be able to use all the money on the other kid. 

We are putting a small amount in 529's, but it is tiny.  We also forward gifts for the kids into our 529, rather than sitting in a savings account or giving them spending money (this is in line with the giver's intentions).  This 529 will probably get to one semester of expenses if we are lucky.

Other than that we are focusing on our brokerage account.  It is general medium term savings- cars, house downpayment or big house expenses, college, etc. 

We plan to pay for a good chunk of college, but we also want our kids to feel some financial pain, and have some skin in the game, so we figure between all of those we will cover at least half the costs, and if we deem it appropriate we can cash flow additional contributions. 

seattlecyclone

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2016, 12:41:20 PM »
I recommend you max out your retirement accounts first. You can withdraw from IRAs without paying the 10% early withdrawal tax in years where you pay educational expenses. You'll still pay regular income tax on traditional withdrawals, just as you will when you withdraw in retirement. Prioritizing your retirement accounts means you have some funds you can use for education if needed, but unlike the 529 there's no penalty if your kid ends up deciding not to go to college and you use the money for your retirement instead.

The one thing to consider is how IRAs are counted on the FAFSA compared to 529 accounts. For a 529 account, you have to report the entire balance as an asset. For an IRA, none of it counts as an asset, but the amount you withdraw in a year counts as income. Income contributes to the family contribution at a higher rate than assets.

abhe8

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2016, 12:54:52 PM »
With no benefit in state income tax with your 529, I would hold off for now. Max all your tax advantages accounts possible, then pay off your own loans. Then look into a529 vs brokerage acct. Only exception, if other family members are wanting to contribute. Also, my state has a matching 2k/yr/ child, so that is free money, week up to a certain income level.

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CanuckExpat

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2016, 10:46:09 PM »
You can withdraw from IRAs without paying the 10% early withdrawal tax in years where you pay educational expenses. You'll still pay regular income tax on traditional withdrawals, just as you will when you withdraw in retirement.

That's interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.

If I'm reading it correctly, it appears you can "double-dip" with a 529 if you have one.
i.e. if you pay for $30,000 of education expenses in one year, you can withdraw $30,000 from a 529 tax and penalty free, and also withdraw $30,000 from an IRA penalty free (but pay taxes on the IRA withdrawal).

If you didn't have wage income at the time your kids went to college and you had set your self up to have a few years of "low income", that might be a nice way of getting some extra money out of tax advantaged accounts at a time when you need to cash-flow a large amount. 

Being low income at that time would help with the taxes due on the IRA withdrawal, would it also help with the financial aid situation?

Interesting..
Thanks

chemistk

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 05:52:06 AM »
We have a 529 account for our son, but our contributions have been few and far between. Ours is through Vanguard and has state tax benefits (PA) so it's a good idea for us to contribute some money over the course of the year. We're still paying off debts, saving for a house, etc. so it's not a good idea for us to be putting a lot of money per year in it. We do use it for gifts from relatives, which helps to create a good foundation for the next 18 years. Plus, if our son decides to take a path where he can't use it, we can always transfer it to another child or save it for grandchildren.

seattlecyclone

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 03:26:35 PM »
You can withdraw from IRAs without paying the 10% early withdrawal tax in years where you pay educational expenses. You'll still pay regular income tax on traditional withdrawals, just as you will when you withdraw in retirement.

That's interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.

If I'm reading it correctly, it appears you can "double-dip" with a 529 if you have one.

This does seem to be the case. Most of the education benefits in the tax code prevent you from using the same expenses to count for two different things, but the publication specifically mentions 529 withdrawals and IRA withdrawals as being something you can double up on.

Quote
i.e. if you pay for $30,000 of education expenses in one year, you can withdraw $30,000 from a 529 tax and penalty free, and also withdraw $30,000 from an IRA penalty free (but pay taxes on the IRA withdrawal).

If you didn't have wage income at the time your kids went to college and you had set your self up to have a few years of "low income", that might be a nice way of getting some extra money out of tax advantaged accounts at a time when you need to cash-flow a large amount. 

Being low income at that time would help with the taxes due on the IRA withdrawal, would it also help with the financial aid situation?

I believe taking income from your IRA would have the same effect on financial aid as earning that amount at a job. If you want to keep your FAFSA income low while your kid is in college, selling taxable assets for a loss (or low gain) is a better way to do it.

However if you're aiming for being able to qualify for the "auto zero EFC" treatment or "simplified EFC" treatment that allows you to omit assets from the equation, and you don't plan to be on federal means-tested benefits (such as food stamps), you need to be eligible to file Form 1040-A, which (among other things) means no selling stocks.

There are so many different benefits that may apply to your particular situation. There are lots of different strategies that may be optimal for different people.

justajane

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2016, 04:06:43 PM »
We've put some in a 529. I think we have about 5-6K by now, but mostly we're using our Roths, from which you can withdraw contributions tax free for educational expenses. To me, that's the best of both worlds, since if they mess with the FAFSA and start penalizing you more for 529s, the money won't be there. I doubt they will every penalize parents for retirement money.

CanuckExpat

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 08:01:23 PM »
I believe taking income from your IRA would have the same effect on financial aid as earning that amount at a job. If you want to keep your FAFSA income low while your kid is in college, selling taxable assets for a loss (or low gain) is a better way to do it.

However if you're aiming for being able to qualify for the "auto zero EFC" treatment or "simplified EFC" treatment that allows you to omit assets from the equation, and you don't plan to be on federal means-tested benefits (such as food stamps), you need to be eligible to file Form 1040-A, which (among other things) means no selling stocks.

There are so many different benefits that may apply to your particular situation. There are lots of different strategies that may be optimal for different people.

Also interesting, thanks. I had to look up what certain terms meant, but it was good knowledge to gain.
We have a long way to go before any of this is directly relevant to us, so I expect things to change, but it's good to know what the landscape is like right now. It does seem there are a lot of possible optimizations, especially if you are not working and can control what your income looks like.

Some point in the next 18 years or so, our son might have to stop drooling on himself and start talking, otherwise the whole college savings thing might be a moot point either way :)

steviesterno

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2016, 05:17:32 AM »
one of the other reasons I'm looking to do the 529 is because the grandparents on both side want to contribute gifts eventually. I think saying "hey we'll just put that in my retirement account and use it for peanut's education, i swear" sounds shady personally. I tried to set up the vanguard account now that he has a social security number and everything, but Vanguard is saying $3k minimum to open. I'm not looking to tie up that much money this instant, as the wife is on unpaid disability (hurray America!) and that's what counts as maternity leave. we'll start saving up for that, but may need the money in the budget as we've been able to rough figure child care but it's always good to have some wiggle room.


NoStacheOhio

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2016, 05:41:40 AM »
one of the other reasons I'm looking to do the 529 is because the grandparents on both side want to contribute gifts eventually. I think saying "hey we'll just put that in my retirement account and use it for peanut's education, i swear" sounds shady personally. I tried to set up the vanguard account now that he has a social security number and everything, but Vanguard is saying $3k minimum to open. I'm not looking to tie up that much money this instant, as the wife is on unpaid disability (hurray America!) and that's what counts as maternity leave. we'll start saving up for that, but may need the money in the budget as we've been able to rough figure child care but it's always good to have some wiggle room.

I would just open up a custodial savings account and stash any education money there for the time being.

My wife did unpaid maternity leave as well (hooray 1099 employment!). It sucked bad and set us back so far it's not even funny.

little_brown_dog

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2016, 06:25:10 AM »
one of the other reasons I'm looking to do the 529 is because the grandparents on both side want to contribute gifts eventually. I think saying "hey we'll just put that in my retirement account and use it for peanut's education, i swear" sounds shady personally. I tried to set up the vanguard account now that he has a social security number and everything, but Vanguard is saying $3k minimum to open. I'm not looking to tie up that much money this instant, as the wife is on unpaid disability (hurray America!) and that's what counts as maternity leave. we'll start saving up for that, but may need the money in the budget as we've been able to rough figure child care but it's always good to have some wiggle room.

We used the NY 529 plan due to its low cost (all the funds are vanguard indexes)...the limits are really low to open and arrange autodeduct (I think the minimum autodeduct is $25). It was really easy to set up, took maybe 10 minutes total.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 06:29:20 AM by little_brown_dog »

justajane

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2016, 06:37:56 AM »
one of the other reasons I'm looking to do the 529 is because the grandparents on both side want to contribute gifts eventually. I think saying "hey we'll just put that in my retirement account and use it for peanut's education, i swear" sounds shady personally.

That's why you do both. You have a 529 to direct family contributions and whatever else you want to contribute, but you can also factor in possibly using Roth money.

There are pros and cons to using a Roth, but I would say the pros outweigh the cons: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/3-reasons-to-use-a-roth-ira-to-save-for-college-2015-03-25

ponyespresso

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2016, 09:23:26 AM »
I opened the UT (UESP) plan which uses Vanguard mutual funds, and there isn't a minimum amount.

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2016, 09:39:51 PM »
If you aren't maxing a Roth, do that first. A Roth has the same tax benefits as a 529, but you aren't restricted in what you can use it for. It also doesn't count against financial aid. You can pull the principal out any time, even if you are far below retirement age. After you have maxed out a Roth (times 2, for a spouse), then look at other options.

Samsam

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2016, 07:00:30 AM »
And here I thought I was finally at peace with opening a 529 when my kid is born and putting money in there.  It looks like my new plan should be giving in full to my mega backdoor roth strategy before putting anything in a 529 unless there are gifts from family members that can be put in there. 

steviesterno

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2016, 06:51:53 AM »
hmm, lots of options I hadn't read up on. The 529 seems to make some sense, but working on making sure I make the best overall decisions, too.

I just changed to slow contributions to my Roth because I wasn't maxing out my 403b yet. Switched so I can do that, do some each month to my HSA since that's a new policy here at work, and also trying to put 600/month in after tax areas for emergencies/home repair/ upgrades etc.

I think I'm going to save up the $3k to do the 529 through vanguard since all the fees are low with no middle-man markup like I've seen on some of the 3rd party sites that just buy vanguard with it.

My plan is to leverage my job and experience at work to a new position that's being designed (mostly by me). so obviously that position needs to have a higher salary than the one I'm in now, (and more vacation days!) and all the extra over what I make now will go to investing, paying off debt, paying down the house.

My goal is to help with college for the kiddo if possible, but not sacrifice much of my retirement or lifestyle to get there. you can always work your way though school, take basics online, or take out a loan for school. you can't really do any of that for retirement...

ZMonet

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2016, 04:46:38 PM »
I like the idea of any excess money compounding for a long period of time.  Does anyone know what happens to a 529 when you die?  Can someone take it over without paying penalties, etc.  For instance, say you were able to put $1 mil in a 529 over time, could this be used as a vehicle for your great-great grandchildren to get an education?

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2016, 02:33:13 PM »
I opened an 529 account in Iowa because at the time the state I lived in had no income tax. I chose Iowa because was administered by Vanguard, low fees, good choice of funds. If state income tax is a non-issue you can open an account in any state you choose. Later I opened one in MD because of the savings once I became a resident.

Agree with PP to max your own savings and tax advantages first.

toincoss

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2016, 11:39:42 AM »
One thing that I haven't seen much discussion on is opening a 529 plan for yourself and then later switching it to your child. Does anyone have any thoughts on how viable this strategy is? Will FAFSA still look at this under their income guidelines if the account is owned by the parent? Even if it doesn't, this creates an added layer of flexibility for how you want to use the funds.

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2016, 11:52:49 AM »
One thing that I haven't seen much discussion on is opening a 529 plan for yourself and then later switching it to your child. Does anyone have any thoughts on how viable this strategy is? Will FAFSA still look at this under their income guidelines if the account is owned by the parent? Even if it doesn't, this creates an added layer of flexibility for how you want to use the funds.

The 529 plan which I opened in 2008 (first son born in 2014) was originally placed in my name; will have to look into the implications of using the withdrawals for my son. If anyone has any useful information, would appreciate reading it.

Edit: This website has some interesting information: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Most of the sites say to keep the 529 in the parent's name, but admittedly some of the articles are pretty old.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:29:50 PM by Rhoon »

MrsDinero

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2016, 12:06:54 PM »
We have talked about it at length and decided to do a mixture. 

We are opening a 529 because family members have expressed interest in giving money for college.  Our daughter was 6 weeks old and people had already given her $600.

We are going to contribute some money to it as well, however we are focusing our efforts into our retirement plan (401k, Index funds, etc).  If we are in a position to help our 2 kids without negatively impacting our retirement plans, then we will help out, otherwise we will help them look at colleges, apply for scholarships, and save their money for college.


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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2016, 12:32:05 PM »
The 10% penalty is just for earnings on the 529, not the contributions. In comparison to the regular taxable account, 529 comes with deferred tax, which in a 25% bracket breaks even with the penalty after a certain number of years, maybe 10-11 or so. If you keep money in the account for longer than that, you come ahead, even after paying the 10% penalty. So, even if you don't plan any educational expenses at all, a possible plan of action with after-tax money can be to max your Roth IRA first, then put money in 529, then in a taxable account. But this depends on your current and future tax rates, and the number of years you expect the money to stay in the account. I just do the Roth and then taxable, as my older child is 10 already, and there's very little overflow over the Roth IRA limit (most of the money goes to pre-tax accounts). Also, as others said, 529 will count against you when applying for aid, and retirement accounts won't.

toincoss

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2016, 01:10:01 PM »
One thing that I haven't seen much discussion on is opening a 529 plan for yourself and then later switching it to your child. Does anyone have any thoughts on how viable this strategy is? Will FAFSA still look at this under their income guidelines if the account is owned by the parent? Even if it doesn't, this creates an added layer of flexibility for how you want to use the funds.

The 529 plan which I opened in 2008 (first son born in 2014) was originally placed in my name; will have to look into the implications of using the withdrawals for my son. If anyone has any useful information, would appreciate reading it.

Edit: This website has some interesting information: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Most of the sites say to keep the 529 in the parent's name, but admittedly some of the articles are pretty old.

Thanks for that link. After digging through some of it, it looks like 529s are considered parental asset's even if the account is under a child's name:

"The College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007 changed the treatment of custodial versions of qualified tuition accounts, like 529 college savings plans, prepaid tuition plans and Coverdell education savings accounts. When they are owned by a dependent student, these plans are reported as parent assets on the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA)."

http://www.finaid.org/fafsa/maximize.phtml#assets

PrfromTexas

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2020, 04:42:40 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Rhoon writemyessaytoday on March 21, 2016, 11:52:49 AM
The 529 plan which I opened in 2008 (first son born in 2014) was originally placed in my name; will have to look into the implications of using the withdrawals for my son. If anyone has any useful information, would appreciate reading it.

Edit: This website has some interesting information: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Most of the sites say to keep the 529 in the parent's name, but admittedly some of the articles are pretty old.

Practically all articles I found are old or have outdated references and I feel bewildered, because I can't rely on anything.
I planned to open a 529 plan for my grandson, but it turned out that my son had already done it. And now, they say that joint ownership isn't always allowed. However, "other state plans may allow joint ownership": taken from the article Can a 529 Plan Have Joint Owners by Alexandria Williams.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 04:46:58 AM by PrfromTexas »

marble_faun

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2020, 08:12:35 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Rhoon writemyessaytoday on March 21, 2016, 11:52:49 AM
The 529 plan which I opened in 2008 (first son born in 2014) was originally placed in my name; will have to look into the implications of using the withdrawals for my son. If anyone has any useful information, would appreciate reading it.

Edit: This website has some interesting information: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Most of the sites say to keep the 529 in the parent's name, but admittedly some of the articles are pretty old.

Practically all articles I found are old or have outdated references and I feel bewildered, because I can't rely on anything.
I planned to open a 529 plan for my grandson, but it turned out that my son had already done it. And now, they say that joint ownership isn't always allowed. However, "other state plans may allow joint ownership": taken from the article Can a 529 Plan Have Joint Owners by Alexandria Williams.

Why not just contribute directly to the fund that your son set up?  My dad was able to mail in a check to ours. A great gift for our baby.

secondcor521

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Re: 529 or regular index account to save for college?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2020, 08:16:52 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Rhoon writemyessaytoday on March 21, 2016, 11:52:49 AM
The 529 plan which I opened in 2008 (first son born in 2014) was originally placed in my name; will have to look into the implications of using the withdrawals for my son. If anyone has any useful information, would appreciate reading it.

Edit: This website has some interesting information: http://www.finaid.org/savings/accountownership.phtml

Most of the sites say to keep the 529 in the parent's name, but admittedly some of the articles are pretty old.

Practically all articles I found are old or have outdated references and I feel bewildered, because I can't rely on anything.
I planned to open a 529 plan for my grandson, but it turned out that my son had already done it. And now, they say that joint ownership isn't always allowed. However, "other state plans may allow joint ownership": taken from the article Can a 529 Plan Have Joint Owners by Alexandria Williams.

Why not just contribute directly to the fund that your son set up?  My dad was able to mail in a check to ours. A great gift for our baby.

There is also no rule against having multiple 529s for a given beneficiary.  So grandparent can open 529 for grandson, and parent can also open 529 for same grandson.

Note that disbursements from grandparent 529s to pay for college are treated as tax-free income to the student in the year of disbursement, which can adversely affect FAFSA aid.  In that case, mostly a workaround is to save the grandparent 529 for expenses towards the latter half of college.

 

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