Author Topic: Belgian Moustachians  (Read 91763 times)

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #200 on: November 15, 2019, 06:59:34 AM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220 per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?


financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #201 on: November 16, 2019, 03:44:35 AM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220 per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?

220 euro per day is low. Most people I know who bill their time to a company (and are not salaried) do not go below 350 euro and msot want above 400 euro. Do not forget this 'pay' also has to cover holiday time and sick time ..

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #202 on: November 16, 2019, 01:31:10 PM »
Hi,

I work at sea in the Offshore/Dredging sector and I live in Belgium.
I recently got fired, and have been receiving offers for short term contracts:

The most recent one is 220 per day before tax paid in England. This would be paid in full with no deductions.
The job would be 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (4/4) only paid at sea...

So, my calculation is that 220 x 31 = 6820
Remove 50% for taxes: 3410 / 2 = 3410
Divide by 2 because I am not paid on land = 1704 Net per month
And that seems way too low...
Am I missing something?

220 euro per day is low. Most people I know who bill their time to a company (and are not salaried) do not go below 350 euro and msot want above 400 euro. Do not forget this 'pay' also has to cover holiday time and sick time ..

Thanks,
I also know Dutch 2nd Engineers accept these jobs for 250, and they don't work for less than 3400 per month.
So with this I can do a rough estimate of their effective tax rate; about 21%...

I will go see a tax specialist, the difference is insane!

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #203 on: November 17, 2019, 07:23:34 AM »
Yes do that, there must be a tax advantage somewhere or otherwise the offered rate just doesn't make any sense

GilbertB

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #204 on: November 17, 2019, 01:52:46 PM »
Yes do that, there must be a tax advantage somewhere or otherwise the offered rate just doesn't make any sense

I have French friends who are Engineers on large private Yachts, and there only the base salary is taxed, all the rest (tips, bonuses etc, that can be more the 70% of the total) must be declared, but is not taxed at all!

So yeah, something is off.

calvaille

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2019, 10:07:24 AM »
Hi All,
I've been passively reading MMM and some of the other blogs (and/or podcasts) regarding FI for a couple of years now. I am well underway to FI myself (but not there yet).
I am living in Brussels and was wondering if there are any meetups in Belgium (I know there are some BE/NL ones but these are mostly in NL I think) and if not, if any of the people here would be interested in meeting up if we fix a date and organize something in Brussels.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #206 on: December 11, 2019, 11:02:17 AM »
Hi All,
I've been passively reading MMM and some of the other blogs (and/or podcasts) regarding FI for a couple of years now. I am well underway to FI myself (but not there yet).
I am living in Brussels and was wondering if there are any meetups in Belgium (I know there are some BE/NL ones but these are mostly in NL I think) and if not, if any of the people here would be interested in meeting up if we fix a date and organize something in Brussels.
The advantage of working more localy is no more need to go to Brussels for work ;-) But amber tree works in Brussels and I know Claudia who used to comment on my blog way back in February lives near Brussels ..

Polaria

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #207 on: December 11, 2019, 12:19:36 PM »
I am living and working in Brussels. Would be nice to organize something here.

Kenpachigo

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #208 on: December 30, 2019, 03:39:38 AM »
Has anyone else followed Bacquelaine's plans to buy into the Belgian pension system? In short, between 2017 en 2020 you get an opportunity to buy extra years of pension at a bargain. At the moment, people in the private sector can't use their the years they spent in college towards their pension which means they start later to get their full pension at 45 years worked. For government employees, the time in college  is automatically covered, meaning they don't have to work that long to enjoy the full pension benefits.

The current plan -which already has been voted on but has to be put into law- is to offer people a grace period between 2017 and 2020 during which they can buy into the system for the time they spent studying (diploma-bonificatie in Dutch). The cost would be 1350 euros per year, at a maximum of 4 years. For each year invested, you would get 250 euros a year once you retire, 1000 euros a year if you do the full thing. With the payments being partially tax deductible, you'd only have to enjoy a few years of pension to have your investment pay itself back. With some play money now, you could gain yourself a nice holiday every year.

I'm not sure whether I would qualify - I have been living in Belgium for a long time, also studied there some time, then spent a number of years abroad and now I work in the Netherlands, even though I moved back to Belgium a number of years ago.

The only question is if the government will have enough money to pay these pensions in the future. And I'm not sure whether the pensions in Belgium are inflationproof.

Any thoughts on this? It seems to me like a good investment, if you can make the payment.

I only realized that this post was from 2016 when I finished my own investigation. But maybe it still has value to other readers.
In my case, I'm better of just investing that money in index funds.

Index fund investing
  • Initial cost for 4 years: 5200 (I think it's even 1500 a year, but let's assume 1300 a year)
  • Yearly market gain: 5% (conservative)
  • I still need to work at least 31year
  • End balance of invested 5200 euro = 23597 euro


Index investing assuming that you can get a max tax deduction of the money you invested
  • Normally you pay 5200
  • Assuming you are in the highest tax bracket: 5200 x (13,07%+50%) = 3279 euro you do not have to pay in taxes and get back
  • So your actual cost is only 1920 euro
  • Initial cost for 4 years: 1920
  • Yearly market gain: 5%
  • I still need to work at least 31year
  • End balance of invested 1900 = 8714 euro



Simulation on mypension.be

  • Extra monthly money: 51,88 euro (netto)
  • Yearly: 622,56 euro
  • Average age men in Belgium = 79 year
  • Enjoying retirement: 79 year- 65 retirement age = 14 years
  • 14 x 622,56 = 8716 euro benefit


So to summarize: I gain a whopping 2 euro if I buy my college years. However, to get this 2 euro profit, I  need to invest 1,9k euro for 30 years in a government with always changing rules. Examples of changing rules: adding taxes for solar panels, cancelling complete "Home tax credit system" in 3 months time, adding a "rich" tax if you have more then 500k, etc...

Q&A
"Yeah but you might live longer". Yes. But I might also die sooner. Then I lose out even more.
"Yeah but you might get worse returns then 5%". Yes. But they might also be higher. Historical market returns are 8%.



schoenbauer

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #209 on: April 17, 2020, 06:38:44 AM »
It has been a bit quite here lately.

Any Belgian Mustachians up for a get-together post Corona?

Polaria

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #210 on: April 17, 2020, 07:00:23 AM »
It has been a bit quite here lately.

Any Belgian Mustachians up for a get-together post Corona?

Hello! Join the fun here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FIREBelgium/about/

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!