Author Topic: Belgian Moustachians  (Read 91765 times)

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2017, 08:11:57 AM »

Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine. Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?



That is very similar to my accumulating strategy: IWDA, CESL and EMIM. Belgium pushes us to accumulating ETFs that are not registered in Belgium...

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


Amber Tree

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2017, 11:00:33 PM »

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


There are a lot of ETF investors that have an account with degiro. they have a core selection tat allows you to buy for free each month for a certain amount/trades. At the same time, I read that you need to be carefull on the type of account you use. I have no experience with them.


As I use my portfolio as collateral for option trading, I am with brokers that support big time option trading.


When buying on a regular basis for 1000€, trading fees are important. You have the 0,27pct tax (can not be avoided anymore) and then a trading fee. assume you pay 7 eur for the trade, then your total cost is 0,97pct.





PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #152 on: March 25, 2017, 03:34:01 AM »

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


There are a lot of ETF investors that have an account with degiro. they have a core selection tat allows you to buy for free each month for a certain amount/trades. At the same time, I read that you need to be carefull on the type of account you use. I have no experience with them.


As I use my portfolio as collateral for option trading, I am with brokers that support big time option trading.


When buying on a regular basis for 1000€, trading fees are important. You have the 0,27pct tax (can not be avoided anymore) and then a trading fee. assume you pay 7 eur for the trade, then your total cost is 0,97pct.

Yeah that's why I asked on how the more passive investors invest. Cause those trading fees add up.

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #153 on: March 27, 2017, 02:53:43 AM »
Anyone experience with https://www.easyvest.be ? Looks like a betterment alternative but for Belgium.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #154 on: March 29, 2017, 02:32:57 AM »
Anyone experience with https://www.easyvest.be ? Looks like a betterment alternative but for Belgium.
Pretty high fees. And they probably dump the money in ETF's who have fees of their own... Cheap broker and selecting your own ETF's will be cheaper and produce the same results (well, better results actually because you will not have to pay a fee to easyinvest).

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #155 on: April 15, 2017, 04:10:28 AM »
De tijd launched a fun little tool to quickly see what business insiders are doing (buying or selling their own company).
http://multimedia.tijd.be/insiders/

I for one was glad to see that Alexander van Damme also likes to buy AB Inbev shares around the 100 euro price! 

Amber Tree

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #156 on: April 15, 2017, 01:21:58 PM »
De tijd launched a fun little tool to quickly see what business insiders are doing (buying or selling their own company).
http://multimedia.tijd.be/insiders/

I for one was glad to see that Alexander van Damme also likes to buy AB Inbev shares around the 100 euro price!


That buy from him was in the news a few months back. It has been the start of a great option income so far. Fingers crossed...!

whatlifecouldbe

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #157 on: April 15, 2017, 02:43:28 PM »
Hi belgian mustachians!
Hope to see some of  you at the Financial Independence Week Europe (FIWE) in Timisoara which we're organising in September.
Apply as long as there are spaces left.
It's going to be a non-commercial fun event to meet like-minded people, eat some local food, dring some local alcohol and most importantly: talk, talk, talk :)

There are direct fights from Brussels...

All details here: http://whatlifecouldbe.eu/fiwe/

Cheers
Mr W

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #158 on: July 06, 2017, 11:56:05 AM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree

Educated_Fool

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #159 on: July 13, 2017, 10:59:48 PM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree
Yeah good job ATL!

There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #160 on: July 13, 2017, 11:47:54 PM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree
Yeah good job ATL!

There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.

Ah HLN comments they are so fantastic :)


financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #161 on: July 17, 2017, 12:35:13 PM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways. But quiet a few shows of channel 4 end up becoming available if one knows where to look ...

orangepalm

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #162 on: July 17, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways.

Hola! (chrome plugin) did the trick for me. It's funny how there's some mainstream media coverage of FIRE (although they kept it VERY superficial, as one would expect).

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #163 on: July 23, 2017, 05:01:01 AM »
And an article n De tijd this weekend: http://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie-algemeen/Op-veertig-met-pensioen-Volgens-deze-Belgen-kan-het/9915971?ckc=1&ts=1500805687

I haven't read the one in Humo as I get it with some delay from the parents but I guess it is pretty similar.

TheCyclingInvestor

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #164 on: July 23, 2017, 07:14:19 AM »
Great! Although the last paragraph sounds sceptical. I think you never may expect a broad based support for a simple frugal lifestyle. You need a lot of discipline, perseverance, resistance to consumption, tolerance for serious setbacks in for example the stock markets,... All human characteristics that everyone wished they got them but few have...
And maybe it's better like this because government will invent some more stupid taxes like the one they are discussing right now: 0,1% tax each year on your complete portfolio...
Another consideration: image that everyone got frugal? Our investments will schrink tremandously, don't you think so?

Pro_Amateur

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #165 on: July 24, 2017, 12:35:03 AM »
Indeed, the last paragraph sounded as if it were written to confirm the readers in their belief that ER is not realistically possible. Now stop daydreaming and get back to work, sheeple! :)  Pity that an otherwise serious newspaper indulges in this kind of writing style.

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #166 on: July 26, 2017, 04:03:10 AM »
http://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie-federaal/Wat-staat-er-in-het-zomerakkoord/9916894

Quote
In ruil voor de hervorming van de vennootschapsbelasting eiste CD&V een maatregel voor meer rechtvaardige fiscaliteit. Die komt er via een belasting op een effectenrekening, waarop bijvoorbeeld aandelen en obligaties staan. Wie meer dan de belastingvrije som van 500.000 euro per persoon op zijn effectenrekening heeft, moet een heffing van 0,15 procent betalen. Het kabinet van Financiën zegt dat alleen belasting is verschuldigd op de schijf boven 500.000 euro. Maar een andere bron zegt dat dan belasting is verschuldigd op het volledige bedrag op de effectenrekening. De taks moet 250 miljoen euro opleveren.
Stimuleren spaargeld
Open VLD heeft zich lang verzet tegen zo'n belasting. Daarom krijgen zij een nieuwe wet-Cooreman-De Clercq, die destijds het kopen van aandelen moest stimuleren. 'Het gaat om een maatregel Michel-De Croo, naar analogie met de wet Cooreman-De Clercq', zegt premier Michel.

Door die maatregel komt er een vrijstelling voor dividenden op aandelen. Op de eerste schijf van 627 euro moet geen roerende voorheffing van 30 procent meer worden betaald.
Pensioensparen
Ook de fiscale vrijstelling voor pensioensparen verandert. Mensen krijgen de keuze tussen het systeem van vandaag - waarbij jaarlijks 30 procent op een storting van 940 euro in mindering van de belastingen kan worden gebracht - en een nieuw. Daarbij kan 25 procent op een bedrag van 1.200 euro worden afgetrokken van belastingen.
In het oude systeem kan 282 euro per jaar fiscaal worden afgetrokken, in het nieuwe 300 euro. Voor die 18 euro extra moeten spaarders wel 260 euro extra per jaar sparen.
De vrijstelling op spaargeld gaat dan weer naar beneden. Tot nog toe hoefde op intresten tot 1.880 euro geen roerende voorheffing te worden betaald, binnenkort bedraagt die vrijstelling nog maar 940 euro.


financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #167 on: July 26, 2017, 01:10:30 PM »
For those who don't get access to the article:

-Beleggers moeten vanaf 2018 een taks betalen als de waarde van de effecten op hun effectenrekening meer dan 500.000 euro per persoon bedraagt. De belastingvrije som per gezin bedraagt dus 1 miljoen euro. Het belastingtarief bedraagt 0,15 procent op de volledige waarde van de effectenportefeuille.

Not an issue now but it will be for most of us in the future. Don't forget this is a hard number meaning inflation will automatically bring this closer and closer for more and more people. 50 years ago my dad started working at 400 BEF a month. A 1.500 euro (60.000 BEF) starting wage is not unusually now. Give it 50 years and everybody who has some investments will be paying this tax. This is very bad news for the next generation.

- De beurstaks stijgt voor de zoveelste keer. De belasting op de aan- en verkoop van aandelen stijgt van 0,27 naar 0,35 procent. Het tarief voor obligaties stijgt van 0,09 naar 0,12 procent. Het tarief voor aandelen zal daardoor dubbel zo hoog zijn als in 2011.

This affects everybody. It means that whenever you buy and sell something 0,7% of the total amount will go to the government. It is the main reason why I try to avoid assignment when writing options. It is also a pretty high wealth tax if you want my opinion. Buy and hold investments offer a small way out (only paying the tax 1 time) as do CfD's as this tax is not applicable on them. At the moment you also own this tax when you have a foreign account but there is a court appeal that might rule in our favour. Let's hope so.

-Dividenden tot 627 euro worden vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Als we veronderstellen dat het dividendrendement gemiddeld 3,5 procent bedraagt, zijn aandelenportefeuilles tot bijna 18.000 euro volledig vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Grotere aandelenportefeuilles zijn gedeeltelijk vrijgesteld. De vrijstelling wordt toegekend via de belastingaangifte. Van Overtveldt: ‘Beleggers zullen eerst roerende voorheffing moeten betalen op alle dividenden en kunnen dan 30 procent van 627 euro of 188 euro terugvorderen via de belastingaangifte.’

A small win. But very small. 188 euro back, via the taxform? Meaning you get it back 2 years after paying it.

It has been several years now that our government has been putting the bill at the feet of private investors. Personally I am pretty fed up with it.

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #168 on: July 26, 2017, 11:35:43 PM »

De beurstaks stijgt voor de zoveelste keer. De belasting op de aan- en verkoop van aandelen stijgt van 0,27 naar 0,35 procent. Het tarief voor obligaties stijgt van 0,09 naar 0,12 procent. Het tarief voor aandelen zal daardoor dubbel zo hoog zijn als in 2011.

Seriously that sucks, so that's the strategy of the government to get people to invest more and not let money wither away on "spaarboekjes" what a joke.

Educated_Fool

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #169 on: July 31, 2017, 10:24:35 AM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways. But quiet a few shows of channel 4 end up becoming available if one knows where to look ...
The hola vpn app rulez. I'm afraid its just one episode. Anyway I liked it. The articles in newspapers about FI always have a negative undertone.

Amber Tree

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #170 on: August 08, 2017, 03:17:16 PM »


There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.


Weird couple. thet now drive a BMW Z4... We all make our own choices... Looks like they aim for FAT FIRE

PR83

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #171 on: September 01, 2017, 04:51:11 AM »
Anyone heard of ListMinut.be
Looks like some fun thing for some side income...

https://listminut.be/nl/legal_sharing_economy

Educated_Fool

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #172 on: September 06, 2017, 12:34:38 PM »
Don't know the site. Interesting!

http://www.nsz.be/nl/nieuws/detail/erkenning-voor-acht-deelplatformen

There 8 platforms in total.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #173 on: October 10, 2017, 06:49:04 AM »
story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #174 on: April 30, 2018, 05:11:19 AM »
If you can get location independant work a compagnie in Malta or something like that could be very, very good from a tax view ;-).

Perhaps first try the living abroad while still working for a Belgian compagnie (because it makes moving back a lot easier) and if everything goes well then also off shore the work ..

My work is looking for Pyhthon developper so I send you a PM.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #175 on: July 07, 2018, 03:58:34 AM »
No idea about the pension thing. But I do need to investigate as my retirement plan is to work a little bit every year. The tax free amount does decrease from 7 730 to 7 430 if you earn more than 45 750 euro. So going a little over 45 750 euro can cost you more in taxes than the extra couple hundred you earn ... Keep that in mind.

'Het gewone basisbedrag van de belastingvrije som bedraagt in principe voor aanslagjaar 2019 € 7.430. Mensen met een belastbaar inkomen onder een bepaald bedrag krijgen een verhoogde belastingvrije som van € 7.730. Het plafond wordt nu sinds 1 januari 2018 ingrijpend verhoogd tot € 45.750, waardoor meer mensen in aanmerking zullen komen voor de verhoogde belastingvrije som '

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #176 on: July 07, 2018, 04:11:20 AM »
Thanks a lot financialfreedomsloth for inquiring for me, but any new position will be postponed till later in the year or next year.

For the last year I've taken "Tijdskrediet", and I've decided to go back to my old job (after 12 months) for a couple of months (opzegtermijn uitdoen). It will be fun, and it's only a couple of months anyway. So this year I will work for a couple of months as an employee (werknemer).
I'm doubting whether I will work for 2, 3 or 4 months this year before finally quitting.

One of the factors I'm taking into account is whether this will period will make 2018 count as a "complete working year" for my pension. I read that if you work fulltime for 4 months, it will be counted as a complete year for your pension: http://www.onprvp.fgov.be/NL/profes/benefits/retirement/age/paginas/default.aspx.

Anybody have any ideas/info on this? Other things I might be missing? Obviously an extra month's pay and some small benefits (slightly larger "13th month", holiday bonus etc).
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #177 on: July 16, 2018, 12:15:51 PM »
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.
I don't think I can convince my boss to fire me :-p
you basically need to get yourself fired.
Why do you think it will be hard to convince your boss to fir you?
If you are a good employee and you assure him you will work the full termination period (opzegtermijn) it doesn't cost him a dime.
Just tell him you need time to re-evaluate certain things in your life.

The other possibility is to indeed line up a temporay position somewhere else for three months. Then quit the fix job, do the temporary job and do not accept any prolongation of the temporary job (worst case scenario is you need to do three months of interim job that sucks ...)

financialfreedomsloth

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #178 on: July 21, 2018, 03:50:32 AM »
If it is principles standing in your way: use the unemployment money to do good.

It is still a safety cushion for you as you can stop your charity when you need to AND you will probably put the money to better use than our government would... Hell, it will probably lead to a paying gig ...

It would also make for one hell of an interesting blog ("I reached financial independence and now use my unemployment benefits to help others") and give you something to do in retirement ...

Also, my main principle has always been that principles are nice and good but one should not be to strict on principles (and  I am very strict on that one ! ;-)

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #179 on: July 22, 2018, 08:27:00 AM »
Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

  • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
  • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 04:34:20 AM by Pannenkoek »

Pannenkoek

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Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #180 on: July 23, 2018, 03:29:30 PM »
    No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair.[/s] Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
    I think that currently you need to have worked for at least 15 years (working 4 months/year is sufficient for an employee) in order to receive some minimum pension (probably won't be much):
    https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2016/02/11/_voorstel_minimumpensioenergnadeligvoorvrouwen-1-2570101: "Daardoor hebben mensen die vandaag 15 jaar een derde hebben gewerkt of gelijkgestelde periodes al recht op dat minimumpensioen."

    So it might be worth it to collect a couple of years on the way extra (either as an employee, being independent, or being eligible for unemployment benefits) in order to qualify for that minimum number of years.

    I researched it a bit more and I think I will receive a pro rata pension. so if I work 12 years, it will be 12/45 (yes, this will be peanuts). If you work for 30 years, your pension will be upped to at least the minimum pension.

    Like they say here:

    "Afhankelijk van de duur en de intensiteit van de tewerkstelling per kalenderjaar kan volgens bepaalde criteria een pensioen verhoogd worden tot een bepaald minimum." (https://www.socialsecurity.be/citizen/nl/pensioen/je-pensioen-als-werknemer/gewaarborgd-minimumpensioen-werknemer)

    No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.[/li][/list]
    That's what I understood as well. It's strange that this is so high. If you are an independent "zelfstandige", thats the minimum amount (quarterly) you'd have to pay for social contributions (sociale bijdrage). So you're better off being independent, earning a bit of money here and there and let those years count for your pension as well.

    I'm hoping they don't count accumulating index funds as "income" since there aren't any dividends. In that case I would pay 0.

    They say:

    "De bijdrage die je als verblijvende moet betalen, is afhankelijk van je bruto belastbaar gezinsinkomen van 2018." But there isn't any 'bruto belastbaar inkomen' as accumulating (stock) funds aren't taxed :) (not sure if I understand all of this correctly)

    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #181 on: August 05, 2018, 08:54:46 AM »
    Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

    Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

    • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
    • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.
    35 is pretty ambitious for Belgium. Care to do a guest post on my blog explaining how you hope to get there?

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #182 on: August 07, 2018, 01:03:02 PM »
    Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

    Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

    • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
    • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.
    35 is pretty ambitious for Belgium. Care to do a guest post on my blog explaining how you hope to get there?

    I read your blog! Pretty funny and interesting to read. I must say I recognize myself in you as I'm not particularly ambitious (some even say lazy) myself. Maybe even lazier as I have no ambition to start meddling with options and all that. Seems like too much work.

    Where I differ from you is that I'm not really that voyeuristic :). But I will tell you my (embarrassing) secret: I'm 30 years old and still live with my parents. This means I can transfer about 90% of my (pretty average) salary every month and put it into an index tracker (IWDA). I also started pretty young. Started reading MrMoneymustache and jlcollinsnh when I was 24 and started investing at 25. According to my calculations I will have about 500K at 35 assuming decent market returns (5-6%). Of course if I would FIRE at 35, this would mean a pretty no frills lifestyle at 15-20K per year so not sure if I will pull the trigger then.

    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #183 on: August 09, 2018, 11:15:46 AM »
    Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
    I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Fun doesn't have to be expensive. Also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.
    « Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 04:13:16 AM by financialfreedomsloth »

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #184 on: August 11, 2018, 02:49:42 AM »
    Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
    I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Funs doesn't have to be expensive. also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.

    If I have 500K I'll probably live on 15K the first years just to be sure in case of a poor sequence of returns in the beginning. If I see that even then my portfolio is still growing I'll loose the reins a bit.

    But 15K would include:

    - rent: lets say 750 per month or 9K per year
    - health insurance: 3K per year? Forgot again that I probably don't have to pay because of no income. Damn you goldfish memory...
    - utilities/food: 3,5K per year? (150 utilities and 150 food per month)
    (- 0,15% wealth tax from the Belgian government: 750€ per year :p)

    So this is 15,5K 12,5K just covering my basic needs. I can probably lower that rent if I find someone that wants to live with me. In that case, I'll have about 7K for discretionary spending. Not too shabby. Maybe I can even buy a car and get children. Am I missing something important in my expenses?
    « Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 12:32:39 PM by Pannenkoek »

    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #185 on: August 20, 2018, 04:25:28 AM »
    Well, living at the parents definitely helps the savings rate!
    I am living (and aiming) for a 20K lifestyle and I find my life to have more than enough frills! Funs doesn't have to be expensive. also, when you have all the time in the world you can get a lot of stuff a lot cheaper. Effort + time = money.

    If I have 500K I'll probably live on 15K the first years just to be sure in case of a poor sequence of returns in the beginning. If I see that even then my portfolio is still growing I'll loose the reins a bit.

    But 15K would include:

    - rent: lets say 750 per month or 9K per year
    - health insurance: 3K per year? Forgot again that I probably don't have to pay because of no income. Damn you goldfish memory...
    - utilities/food: 3,5K per year? (150 utilities and 150 food per month)
    (- 0,15% wealth tax from the Belgian government: 750€ per year :p)

    So this is 15,5K 12,5K just covering my basic needs. I can probably lower that rent if I find someone that wants to live with me. In that case, I'll have about 7K for discretionary spending. Not too shabby. Maybe I can even buy a car and get children. Am I missing something important in my expenses?
    I think you got most of it. Another way to lower the rent would be to get creative in your living arrangements: http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180817_03669559

    For a friend I did the numbers for a small build on a recreatie domein met permanent bewoning mogelijkheid. Terrain can be had for around 30.000 to 40.000 and building something on it can be done for 60.000 euro (or 5.000 euro if you go the bus route) Which would put you at a 100.000 euro to sort out you living arrangements for the rest of your life. Granted, domiciliation has to be somewhere else but parents seem a logical solutions there. And since you got it cheap, there are always people looking for cheap places to living for a couple of months when you want to rent it out and travel.

    Big advantage is that you normally can get a mortgage for this which at current mortgage rate essentially lets you borrow money for it interest free (if you take into account the tax rebate). It also means you can earn 10.500 euro tax free each year (tax free 7.500 + 3.000 euro mortgage deduction)

    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #186 on: August 20, 2018, 04:28:04 AM »
    Oh yeah. the 100K in property also doesn't count for the wealth tax calculation. With your living arrangement sorted out (in a way that is cheaper than renting) you can lower your stash to 400.000 and avoid the 750 euro wealth tax ;-)

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #187 on: August 26, 2018, 04:05:00 AM »
    I think you got most of it. Another way to lower the rent would be to get creative in your living arrangements: http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180817_03669559

    For a friend I did the numbers for a small build on a recreatie domein met permanent bewoning mogelijkheid. Terrain can be had for around 30.000 to 40.000 and building something on it can be done for 60.000 euro (or 5.000 euro if you go the bus route) Which would put you at a 100.000 euro to sort out you living arrangements for the rest of your life. Granted, domiciliation has to be somewhere else but parents seem a logical solutions there. And since you got it cheap, there are always people looking for cheap places to living for a couple of months when you want to rent it out and travel.

    Big advantage is that you normally can get a mortgage for this which at current mortgage rate essentially lets you borrow money for it interest free (if you take into account the tax rebate). It also means you can earn 10.500 euro tax free each year (tax free 7.500 + 3.000 euro mortgage deduction)

    Interesting, not sure I want to live in a bus though :). Another possibility is to move to Wallonia or the Ardennen. Should be a lot cheaper there compared to Flanders I think. Just have to polish up my French a bit... Limburg is also a bit cheaper than other parts of Flanders I think.

    FinancialHacker

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #188 on: September 25, 2018, 12:55:27 PM »
    Hi,

    Brand new here! coming from Antwerp we have the age of 34 with 2 kids :D ready to start MMM style living :D

    Greetz

    Cube

    ItsALongStory

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #189 on: September 30, 2018, 11:01:26 AM »
    37yo living in the US currently but originally Belgian (zuid West-Vlaanderen) and thinking about retirement in or around Ieper (wife loves that place) or in Wallonia (stunning nature and cheap to live).

    Kind of got a late start to the retirement planning life but am in an OK position with a lot of opportunity to save in the next 5-10 years. Worst case I want to retire at 55yo with aspirational timeline more like 45yo.

    I need to learn a lot more about retirement planning for a move back to the homeland though.

    schoenbauer

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #190 on: February 09, 2019, 03:48:37 AM »
    Dear Belgian Moustachians,

    I have recently moved to the region of Brussels (from Germany) and I'm now trying to set-up a Belgian brokerage account. I learnt that DeGiro is quite cheap (but not under Belgian legislation) and Binck is also okay (under Belgian legislation). Any recommendations from your side?

    Also I  read on the Bogleheads wiki ("Investing in Belgium") that dividends are taxed 30%, but accumulating funds don't tax the re-invested dividends and capital gains are also not taxable (when the fund is held for more than 6 month). Is that still true? It seems incredible to me that capital gains are not taxed, when labour is taxed so heavily here (am I missing something?). Therefore an Irish, accumulating ETF seems to be the best choice for Belgian investors...?

    Thankful for any leads :)

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #191 on: March 23, 2019, 03:43:16 AM »
    Dear Belgian Moustachians,

    I have recently moved to the region of Brussels (from Germany) and I'm now trying to set-up a Belgian brokerage account. I learnt that DeGiro is quite cheap (but not under Belgian legislation) and Binck is also okay (under Belgian legislation). Any recommendations from your side?

    Yes, degiro is the cheapest. Some ETF's in their core selection can be bought/sold without transaction costs. You also have to declare the account to the Belgian government as it is a foreign account. I use Binck and Bolero myself which are also quite cheap.

    Also I  read on the Bogleheads wiki ("Investing in Belgium") that dividends are taxed 30%, but accumulating funds don't tax the re-invested dividends and capital gains are also not taxable (when the fund is held for more than 6 month). Is that still true? It seems incredible to me that capital gains are not taxed, when labour is taxed so heavily here (am I missing something?). Therefore an Irish, accumulating ETF seems to be the best choice for Belgian investors...?

    Thankful for any leads :)

    It's true: capital gains & dividends aren't taxed for accumulating stock funds. Bond funds are taxed however.

    tinderstick

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #192 on: March 27, 2019, 01:22:07 PM »
    Beste Mustashians,

    Ik ben een jonge dertiger uit het Gentse (nog een, inderdaad), die net MMM heeft ontdekt. Feest.
    Ik ben volledig mee met de visie, zuinig leven, veel DIY, stoïcijnse visie op geluk, etc. Maar heb weinig kaas gegeten van beleggen. Ben me beginnen inlezen op fora zoals deze, maar ik moet zeggen dat het redelijk overweldigend is en ik niet goed zie waar ik kan beginnen.
    Kan iemand me op weg zetten? Hoeveel moet ik weten van beleggen om de 4% te halen met passieve beleggingen, zonder verder heel hard de markt te volgen? Wat moet ik precies weten? "beleggen in indexfondsen" klinkt gemakkelijk, maar het blijft redelijk abstract als je nieuw bent in de wereld van beleggen.

    Merci!

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #193 on: March 30, 2019, 06:09:42 AM »
    Site van de bogleheads is wel een goede plek om te beginnen:

    https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started (niet alles is even relevant zoals 401K. Dat is iets typisch Amerikaans)
    https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_Belgium

    In België kan je het beste ETF's kopen bij een online broker (zoals binck, bolero, degiro etc.). Voorbeelden van ETF's:

    Aandelen:
    -ishares core msci world (IWDA)
    -ishares msci world small cap (IUSN)
    -ishare core msci emerging markets imi (EMIM)

    Obligaties
    -ishares core global aggregate bond - eur hedged (AGGH)

    tinderstick

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #194 on: March 31, 2019, 01:42:20 PM »
    Ah, super!
    Heel handig, merci!!

    Viracocha

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #195 on: April 25, 2019, 03:16:20 AM »
    story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
    https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

    looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

    Haha, John is my friend. He discovered FI at one of the first meetups I organized in 2015, had a massive aha moment, changed his life completely and "retired" 2 years later. I am the second guy in the article :-)

    I have been organizing free meetups/talks to teach people about investing and FI. Here the last one I did: https://www.simplyfi.org/single-post/2018/06/19/Dubai-Meetup-26-How-to-Plan-for-Financial-Independence-and-Early-Retirement---by-Sebastien-Aguilar-including-recording-and-slides

    I am on my way back to Belgium and would like to help grow the FI community here. Would you be interested in joining? I have started a FI Facebook group as I find it is a much easier way to build a community using FI FB groups. The group is closed so people from outside can't see anything of what is happening inside: www.facebook.com/groups/FIBelgium

    I would love to meet you guys when I am back in Belgium!
    « Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 03:57:03 AM by Viracocha »

    Pannenkoek

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #196 on: June 22, 2019, 02:20:27 PM »
    Anyone worried about Deutsche Bank? Saw this article, which is very bleak about their future: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/business/deutsche-bank-christian-sewing/index.html

    I have some money in their DXET fund, not sure if I should re-invest it in another fund to be safe?
    https://www.finanzen100.de/etf/db-x-trackers-dj-euro-stoxx-50-etf-1c_H1396034427_21324299/

    Even if they go bankrupt, the stocks you own via that fund are yours.

    I took a quick look, and it seems to be underperforming towards the market as well: http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/etf/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=0P0000HNXD
    I bought this fund because I wanted to be in a European fund, but most of my money is into IWDA (world fund), which has performed a lot better... So it might be the time to make a switch?

    Maybe. I just follow a market cap weighted approach. No need to guess which sector or country will perform better ;)

    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #197 on: October 22, 2019, 11:11:05 AM »
    story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
    https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

    looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

    Haha, John is my friend. He discovered FI at one of the first meetups I organized in 2015, had a massive aha moment, changed his life completely and "retired" 2 years later. I am the second guy in the article :-)

    I have been organizing free meetups/talks to teach people about investing and FI. Here the last one I did: https://www.simplyfi.org/single-post/2018/06/19/Dubai-Meetup-26-How-to-Plan-for-Financial-Independence-and-Early-Retirement---by-Sebastien-Aguilar-including-recording-and-slides

    I am on my way back to Belgium and would like to help grow the FI community here. Would you be interested in joining? I have started a FI Facebook group as I find it is a much easier way to build a community using FI FB groups. The group is closed so people from outside can't see anything of what is happening inside: www.facebook.com/groups/FIBelgium

    I would love to meet you guys when I am back in Belgium!

    It's a small (FIRE)world. You posted here just when I stopped being active here (or on my blog). But you can always send me a mail if you are in Belgium.
    Amber tree leaves was the guy who used to co-organise the Belgium meet-ups so if you want to get something of the ground in Belgium he is the man to talk to. I am very open about my numbers so a Facebook group is not very appealing to me personally.


    financialfreedomsloth

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #198 on: October 22, 2019, 11:14:09 AM »
    Anyone worried about Deutsche Bank? Saw this article, which is very bleak about their future: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/26/business/deutsche-bank-christian-sewing/index.html

    I have some money in their DXET fund, not sure if I should re-invest it in another fund to be safe?
    https://www.finanzen100.de/etf/db-x-trackers-dj-euro-stoxx-50-etf-1c_H1396034427_21324299/

    Even if they go bankrupt, the stocks you own via that fund are yours.


    Funds are indeed protected when a bank goes under. On the other hand, Deutsche going under would result in a very messy situation, it could be months before the situation of your fund is resolved. Since it is also lagging the market I would switch to a low cost index fund and get out of any Deutsche bank products.

    devBelgian

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    Re: Belgian Moustachians
    « Reply #199 on: November 03, 2019, 06:36:59 AM »
    Hi everyone,

    Newcomer here, found this link through a google search.

    36 years old, married, no kids yet. Working as a freelancer, looking forward to FIRE.

    We are currently heavily invested in real estate (two buildings for a total of 7 units in Hainaut); the first investment went smoothly; the second however is kind of an ordeal at this point, we made many mistakes and even though we are finalizing the process, I am unhappy with myself and how I managed it.
    We also bought some crypto and we put 500€ every month in ETFs.

    Looking forward to exchanging with you all

     

    Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!