Author Topic: Belgian Moustachians  (Read 33386 times)

Polaria

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Brussels - Belgium
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #150 on: March 03, 2017, 12:02:45 PM »
I always found it very bizarre unemployed people live in Brussels city, and the people actually working in Brussels need to commute there everyday.

This article provides some elements to explain the commuting situation in Belgium: Five reasons Belgium has the worst traffic in Europe .

One excerpt:
Belgium is a small country, but every Belgian probably knows somebody who commutes more than 100km every day. That’s because jobs are concentrated in the large cities, but most people won’t move there. [...]
The OECD blames this on a rigid housing market, caused by the high transaction costs of buying a house. There’s also a strong anti-urban mentality. For many Belgians, owning a detached house with some green space in the neighbourhood where they grew up is worth all those hours on the road.

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #151 on: March 17, 2017, 12:40:19 AM »
Hi, all

I'm a 33 year old Belgian (O-VL Region).
I discovered MMM a month or 2 back and read through everything. It seemed I had some latent mustachianism already (Biking, Saving a lot, moving closer to work). But still learned some new tricks. Like why the hell didn't I properly Invest...
I'm now in the process of learning to Invest, set up a Binck account looking at some Index ETF's (IWDA, EIMI, EMUE) to build some growth and hopefully making the jump quickly after reading some more.

It's fun to see some Belgian Mustachians here, cause there's offcourse a huge difference for some things and it's fun to see some people already did research into it.

I see some posters have Personal Finance blogs as well.
Is there a list of all "Belgian Mustachian Blogs" somewhere? I love to read those...
Oh and do any of the Belgian bloggers want to do an indepth Mustache analysis of my situation? (would love that, I can take it) :)

Also maybe the first post of this thread should link those blogs and some more "Belgian specific Info" like https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_Belgium#Type_of_ETF_useful_for_investing_from_Belgium
which is usefull for new people like me :)


So when is there a reallife meetup happening (Ghent, Brussels)?

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #152 on: March 17, 2017, 03:53:45 AM »
Hi, all

I'm a 33 year old Belgian (O-VL Region).
I discovered MMM a month or 2 back and read through everything. It seemed I had some latent mustachianism already (Biking, Saving a lot, moving closer to work). But still learned some new tricks. Like why the hell didn't I properly Invest...
I'm now in the process of learning to Invest, set up a Binck account looking at some Index ETF's (IWDA, EIMI, EMUE) to build some growth and hopefully making the jump quickly after reading some more.

It's fun to see some Belgian Mustachians here, cause there's offcourse a huge difference for some things and it's fun to see some people already did research into it.

I see some posters have Personal Finance blogs as well.
Is there a list of all "Belgian Mustachian Blogs" somewhere? I love to read those...
Oh and do any of the Belgian bloggers want to do an indepth Mustache analysis of my situation? (would love that, I can take it) :)

Also maybe the first post of this thread should link those blogs and some more "Belgian specific Info" like https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investing_from_Belgium#Type_of_ETF_useful_for_investing_from_Belgium
which is usefull for new people like me :)

So when is there a reallife meetup happening (Ghent, Brussels)?
Hi there. Welcome to the church of Mustachianism :-)

You're offering some good ideas in your post. I've added some links already in the first post of this topic. In case anyone has other links, you can pm me. I'm also up for a real-live meetup. Preferably in Gent but Antwerp or Brussels will work as well.

I took a quick look at the EMEU ETF (https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239644/ishares-msci-emu-etf) but the TER seems quite high (0,50%). I've put some money in "DXET - Euro Stoxx 50" (TER 0.09%)... To be honest I'm a bit hesitant about the long-term future of Europe, so I've put most of my money in IWDA. However I'm becoming very tempted to start looking at other funds, or even those holdings (Ackermans, HAL Trust) which were mentioned earlier in this thread by "TheCyclingInvestor"...
It's tempting to start looking for higher gains but the few times I've done this in the past have gone very bad...

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #153 on: March 17, 2017, 04:23:05 AM »

I'm also up for a real-live meetup. Preferably in Gent but Antwerp or Brussels will work as well.

I took a quick look at the EMEU ETF (https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239644/ishares-msci-emu-etf) but the TER seems quite high (0,50%). I've put some money in "DXET - Euro Stoxx 50" (TER 0.09%)... To be honest I'm a bit hesitant about the long-term future of Europe, so I've put most of my money in IWDA. However I'm becoming very tempted to start looking at other funds, or even those holdings (Ackermans, HAL Trust) which were mentioned earlier in this thread by "TheCyclingInvestor"...
It's tempting to start looking for higher gains but the few times I've done this in the past have gone very bad...
Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine. Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?

Anyway meetup in Ghent make it happen (30min train-ride (or a bit longer bicycle ride on sunny days))

PS: @financialfreedomsloth having fun reading your blog (see a lot of similarities with myself)

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #154 on: March 17, 2017, 05:06:51 AM »
Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine.
I did a quick check on DXET and it seems like it's underperforming compared to the index :-/. Not so sure anymore if I should recommend it.
http://www.morningstar.nl/nl/etf/snapshot/snapshot.aspx?id=0P0000HNXD

Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?
Sounds good. Looking at those fluctuations of EIMI scares me a little bit, but on the long-term it will probably do fine. To be honest I don't have any "expert knowledge", it's probably better if others chime in here.

Anyway meetup in Ghent make it happen (30min train-ride (or a bit longer bicycle ride on sunny days))
I'll be traveling over the next couple of weeks, so the start of May is really the best option for me...
Maybe go for a week-day, Tuesday the 9th of May? A couple of drinks and a chat in a bar, somewhere in the center?

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #155 on: March 17, 2017, 05:14:07 AM »

I'm also up for a real-live meetup. Preferably in Gent but Antwerp or Brussels will work as well.

I took a quick look at the EMEU ETF (https://www.ishares.com/us/products/239644/ishares-msci-emu-etf) but the TER seems quite high (0,50%). I've put some money in "DXET - Euro Stoxx 50" (TER 0.09%)... To be honest I'm a bit hesitant about the long-term future of Europe, so I've put most of my money in IWDA. However I'm becoming very tempted to start looking at other funds, or even those holdings (Ackermans, HAL Trust) which were mentioned earlier in this thread by "TheCyclingInvestor"...
It's tempting to start looking for higher gains but the few times I've done this in the past have gone very bad...
Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine. Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?

Anyway meetup in Ghent make it happen (30min train-ride (or a bit longer bicycle ride on sunny days))

PS: @financialfreedomsloth having fun reading your blog (see a lot of similarities with myself)
Similarities? And here I was thinking I was unique ....
But thank you for the kind words!

You have already missed 2 meet ups (one in Breda and one in Antwerpen) a third is being set up now:
https://ambertreeleaves.wordpress.com/2017/03/06/lets-get-togehter/
If somebody wants to set up a mini meetup in Ghent, I do visit Ghent pretty often since I used to study and live there for 15 years and my family and friends still live near Ghent.

Other Belgian blogs:
Amber tree  has a blog roll with some Belgians in it and cheesyfinance also has an excellent blog roll (http://cheesyfinance.nl/wp/index.php/blogroll/).
Their excellent blogroll is the reason I do not have one because, well, I am lazy ...

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #156 on: March 17, 2017, 06:03:48 AM »
PS: @financialfreedomsloth having fun reading your blog (see a lot of similarities with myself)
Similarities? And here I was thinking I was unique ....
But thank you for the kind words!

You have already missed 2 meet ups (one in Breda and one in Antwerpen) a third is being set up now:
https://ambertreeleaves.wordpress.com/2017/03/06/lets-get-togehter/
If somebody wants to set up a mini meetup in Ghent, I do visit Ghent pretty often since I used to study and live there for 15 years and my family and friends still live near Ghent.

Other Belgian blogs:
Amber tree  has a blog roll with some Belgians in it and cheesyfinance also has an excellent blog roll (http://cheesyfinance.nl/wp/index.php/blogroll/).
Their excellent blogroll is the reason I do not have one because, well, I am lazy ...


Haha well yeah similarities 'a bit lazy' care-free student time, being naturally frugal, ..., minus that active Investing knowledge damn

Those meet-ups look real interesting, a bit further out but with a clear agenda and talks, I'll keep an eye out for those.

But a smaller less organized thing sounds fun as well :)




Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #157 on: March 18, 2017, 03:51:37 PM »
Meeting like minded people is always fun.

Our next BENL meetup is indeed a little further away. We do consider a car pool system. Expect a next one again closer to Antwerp.

In between, mini meetups are great. I work in Brussels, so that could be a good candidate. And Ghent is never far away... Would a doodle help to pick a date?

Next Saturday, I will go to the VFB event in Antwerp. Anyone else?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 03:56:47 PM by Amber Tree »

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #158 on: March 19, 2017, 04:08:07 AM »
Meeting like minded people is always fun.

Our next BENL meetup is indeed a little further away. We do consider a car pool system. Expect a next one again closer to Antwerp.

In between, mini meetups are great. I work in Brussels, so that could be a good candidate. And Ghent is never far away... Would a doodle help to pick a date?

Next Saturday, I will go to the VFB event in Antwerp. Anyone else?

Yeah a Doodle / Poll might be a good way to poll interest pick a city and date.
Got to say all these Belgian PF blogs are inspiring, maybe I should start to write stuff down as well...

Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #159 on: March 19, 2017, 09:27:33 AM »
Here is a Doodle.


It seems most people prefer Gent. Fine with me.


I added the date already suggested.


https://doodle.com/poll/k748vyh66gscqsme


ATL

Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #160 on: March 19, 2017, 09:29:49 AM »

Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine. Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?



That is very similar to my accumulating strategy: IWDA, CESL and EMIM. Belgium pushes us to accumulating ETFs that are not registered in Belgium...

WhenDoYouRetire?

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Age: 23
  • Location: Brussels, Belgium
  • Pay Yourself First.
    • When Do You Retire?
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #161 on: March 21, 2017, 10:21:27 AM »
I'll try to join you guys as well, depending on the schedule! :)

Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #162 on: March 23, 2017, 04:29:44 AM »
Looks like the best date is May 6. Lets take that one.


I will start a new topic for that, to keep things clean.


https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/meetups-and-social-events/belgian-meetup-may-6-gent/

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #163 on: March 24, 2017, 08:11:57 AM »

Yeah was planning IWDA 60% EIMI 25% 15% Euro low cost TER Accumulating Index fund so DXET looks fine. Does this sound fine as a good accumulating growth strategy?



That is very similar to my accumulating strategy: IWDA, CESL and EMIM. Belgium pushes us to accumulating ETFs that are not registered in Belgium...

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #164 on: March 24, 2017, 11:00:33 PM »

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


There are a lot of ETF investors that have an account with degiro. they have a core selection tat allows you to buy for free each month for a certain amount/trades. At the same time, I read that you need to be carefull on the type of account you use. I have no experience with them.


As I use my portfolio as collateral for option trading, I am with brokers that support big time option trading.


When buying on a regular basis for 1000€, trading fees are important. You have the 0,27pct tax (can not be avoided anymore) and then a trading fee. assume you pay 7 eur for the trade, then your total cost is 0,97pct.





PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #165 on: March 25, 2017, 03:34:01 AM »

Which broker do you recommend?
I would like to put in regular 1000 € amounts in these ETF's.


There are a lot of ETF investors that have an account with degiro. they have a core selection tat allows you to buy for free each month for a certain amount/trades. At the same time, I read that you need to be carefull on the type of account you use. I have no experience with them.


As I use my portfolio as collateral for option trading, I am with brokers that support big time option trading.


When buying on a regular basis for 1000€, trading fees are important. You have the 0,27pct tax (can not be avoided anymore) and then a trading fee. assume you pay 7 eur for the trade, then your total cost is 0,97pct.

Yeah that's why I asked on how the more passive investors invest. Cause those trading fees add up.

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #166 on: March 27, 2017, 02:53:43 AM »
Anyone experience with https://www.easyvest.be ? Looks like a betterment alternative but for Belgium.

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #167 on: March 29, 2017, 02:32:57 AM »
Anyone experience with https://www.easyvest.be ? Looks like a betterment alternative but for Belgium.
Pretty high fees. And they probably dump the money in ETF's who have fees of their own... Cheap broker and selecting your own ETF's will be cheaper and produce the same results (well, better results actually because you will not have to pay a fee to easyinvest).

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2017, 04:10:28 AM »
De tijd launched a fun little tool to quickly see what business insiders are doing (buying or selling their own company).
http://multimedia.tijd.be/insiders/

I for one was glad to see that Alexander van Damme also likes to buy AB Inbev shares around the 100 euro price! 

Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2017, 01:21:58 PM »
De tijd launched a fun little tool to quickly see what business insiders are doing (buying or selling their own company).
http://multimedia.tijd.be/insiders/

I for one was glad to see that Alexander van Damme also likes to buy AB Inbev shares around the 100 euro price!


That buy from him was in the news a few months back. It has been the start of a great option income so far. Fingers crossed...!

whatlifecouldbe

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: Germany
    • What Life Could Be - FI in Germany
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2017, 02:43:28 PM »
Hi belgian mustachians!
Hope to see some of  you at the Financial Independence Week Europe (FIWE) in Timisoara which we're organising in September.
Apply as long as there are spaces left.
It's going to be a non-commercial fun event to meet like-minded people, eat some local food, dring some local alcohol and most importantly: talk, talk, talk :)

There are direct fights from Brussels...

All details here: http://whatlifecouldbe.eu/fiwe/

Cheers
Mr W

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #171 on: July 06, 2017, 11:56:05 AM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree

Educated_Fool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Belgium
  • freedom on my mind
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #172 on: July 13, 2017, 10:59:48 PM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree
Yeah good job ATL!

There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #173 on: July 13, 2017, 11:47:54 PM »
Heh nice article in humo Amber Tree
Yeah good job ATL!

There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.

Ah HLN comments they are so fantastic :)


financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #174 on: July 17, 2017, 12:35:13 PM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways. But quiet a few shows of channel 4 end up becoming available if one knows where to look ...

orangepalm

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Location: Florida
    • Frugalcrib
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #175 on: July 17, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways.

Hola! (chrome plugin) did the trick for me. It's funny how there's some mainstream media coverage of FIRE (although they kept it VERY superficial, as one would expect).

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #176 on: July 23, 2017, 05:01:01 AM »
And an article n De tijd this weekend: http://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie-algemeen/Op-veertig-met-pensioen-Volgens-deze-Belgen-kan-het/9915971?ckc=1&ts=1500805687

I haven't read the one in Humo as I get it with some delay from the parents but I guess it is pretty similar.

TheCyclingInvestor

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Age: 48
  • Time isn't money, it's precious...
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #177 on: July 23, 2017, 07:14:19 AM »
Great! Although the last paragraph sounds sceptical. I think you never may expect a broad based support for a simple frugal lifestyle. You need a lot of discipline, perseverance, resistance to consumption, tolerance for serious setbacks in for example the stock markets,... All human characteristics that everyone wished they got them but few have...
And maybe it's better like this because government will invent some more stupid taxes like the one they are discussing right now: 0,1% tax each year on your complete portfolio...
Another consideration: image that everyone got frugal? Our investments will schrink tremandously, don't you think so?

Pro_Amateur

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Leave no stache behind
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #178 on: July 24, 2017, 12:35:03 AM »
Indeed, the last paragraph sounded as if it were written to confirm the readers in their belief that ER is not realistically possible. Now stop daydreaming and get back to work, sheeple! :)  Pity that an otherwise serious newspaper indulges in this kind of writing style.

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #179 on: July 26, 2017, 04:03:10 AM »
http://www.tijd.be/politiek-economie/belgie-federaal/Wat-staat-er-in-het-zomerakkoord/9916894

Quote
In ruil voor de hervorming van de vennootschapsbelasting eiste CD&V een maatregel voor meer rechtvaardige fiscaliteit. Die komt er via een belasting op een effectenrekening, waarop bijvoorbeeld aandelen en obligaties staan. Wie meer dan de belastingvrije som van 500.000 euro per persoon op zijn effectenrekening heeft, moet een heffing van 0,15 procent betalen. Het kabinet van Financiën zegt dat alleen belasting is verschuldigd op de schijf boven 500.000 euro. Maar een andere bron zegt dat dan belasting is verschuldigd op het volledige bedrag op de effectenrekening. De taks moet 250 miljoen euro opleveren.
Stimuleren spaargeld
Open VLD heeft zich lang verzet tegen zo'n belasting. Daarom krijgen zij een nieuwe wet-Cooreman-De Clercq, die destijds het kopen van aandelen moest stimuleren. 'Het gaat om een maatregel Michel-De Croo, naar analogie met de wet Cooreman-De Clercq', zegt premier Michel.

Door die maatregel komt er een vrijstelling voor dividenden op aandelen. Op de eerste schijf van 627 euro moet geen roerende voorheffing van 30 procent meer worden betaald.
Pensioensparen
Ook de fiscale vrijstelling voor pensioensparen verandert. Mensen krijgen de keuze tussen het systeem van vandaag - waarbij jaarlijks 30 procent op een storting van 940 euro in mindering van de belastingen kan worden gebracht - en een nieuw. Daarbij kan 25 procent op een bedrag van 1.200 euro worden afgetrokken van belastingen.
In het oude systeem kan 282 euro per jaar fiscaal worden afgetrokken, in het nieuwe 300 euro. Voor die 18 euro extra moeten spaarders wel 260 euro extra per jaar sparen.
De vrijstelling op spaargeld gaat dan weer naar beneden. Tot nog toe hoefde op intresten tot 1.880 euro geen roerende voorheffing te worden betaald, binnenkort bedraagt die vrijstelling nog maar 940 euro.


financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #180 on: July 26, 2017, 01:10:30 PM »
For those who don't get access to the article:

-Beleggers moeten vanaf 2018 een taks betalen als de waarde van de effecten op hun effectenrekening meer dan 500.000 euro per persoon bedraagt. De belastingvrije som per gezin bedraagt dus 1 miljoen euro. Het belastingtarief bedraagt 0,15 procent op de volledige waarde van de effectenportefeuille.

Not an issue now but it will be for most of us in the future. Don't forget this is a hard number meaning inflation will automatically bring this closer and closer for more and more people. 50 years ago my dad started working at 400 BEF a month. A 1.500 euro (60.000 BEF) starting wage is not unusually now. Give it 50 years and everybody who has some investments will be paying this tax. This is very bad news for the next generation.

- De beurstaks stijgt voor de zoveelste keer. De belasting op de aan- en verkoop van aandelen stijgt van 0,27 naar 0,35 procent. Het tarief voor obligaties stijgt van 0,09 naar 0,12 procent. Het tarief voor aandelen zal daardoor dubbel zo hoog zijn als in 2011.

This affects everybody. It means that whenever you buy and sell something 0,7% of the total amount will go to the government. It is the main reason why I try to avoid assignment when writing options. It is also a pretty high wealth tax if you want my opinion. Buy and hold investments offer a small way out (only paying the tax 1 time) as do CfD's as this tax is not applicable on them. At the moment you also own this tax when you have a foreign account but there is a court appeal that might rule in our favour. Let's hope so.

-Dividenden tot 627 euro worden vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Als we veronderstellen dat het dividendrendement gemiddeld 3,5 procent bedraagt, zijn aandelenportefeuilles tot bijna 18.000 euro volledig vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Grotere aandelenportefeuilles zijn gedeeltelijk vrijgesteld. De vrijstelling wordt toegekend via de belastingaangifte. Van Overtveldt: ‘Beleggers zullen eerst roerende voorheffing moeten betalen op alle dividenden en kunnen dan 30 procent van 627 euro of 188 euro terugvorderen via de belastingaangifte.’

A small win. But very small. 188 euro back, via the taxform? Meaning you get it back 2 years after paying it.

It has been several years now that our government has been putting the bill at the feet of private investors. Personally I am pretty fed up with it.

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #181 on: July 26, 2017, 11:35:43 PM »

De beurstaks stijgt voor de zoveelste keer. De belasting op de aan- en verkoop van aandelen stijgt van 0,27 naar 0,35 procent. Het tarief voor obligaties stijgt van 0,09 naar 0,12 procent. Het tarief voor aandelen zal daardoor dubbel zo hoog zijn als in 2011.

Seriously that sucks, so that's the strategy of the government to get people to invest more and not let money wither away on "spaarboekjes" what a joke.

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #182 on: July 28, 2017, 03:23:05 AM »
It has been several years now that our government has been putting the bill at the feet of private investors. Personally I am pretty fed up with it.

Yeah, this sucks... More and more money will be needed to support the "vergrijzing" in the coming years. Unfortunately for us it seems they have their eyes set on investors (the "wealthy"). On one hand I understand why some parties push for more taxes on the "superwealthy" (I doubt however how effective it can be), however it seems it's the smart/upper middle class always ends up paying...

I guess the most significant change will be the lowering of the corporate tax. Let's see how that plays out. Will probably make it more interesting to run your own business, however using the "interne liquidatie" is probably a still more tax-efficient way to get money out (provided you can keep it in the company for 5 more years).

Quote
Beleggers moeten vanaf 2018 een taks betalen als de waarde van de effecten op hun effectenrekening meer dan 500.000 euro per persoon bedraagt. De belastingvrije som per gezin bedraagt dus 1 miljoen euro. Het belastingtarief bedraagt 0,15 procent op de volledige waarde van de effectenportefeuille.

Not an issue now but it will be for most of us in the future. Don't forget this is a hard number meaning inflation will automatically bring this closer and closer for more and more people.

Wouldn't surprise me if this tax rises in the future as well, or if the number (500k) lowers. Once it's in place, it's a lot easier to just tweak the numbers...


Quote
De beurstaks stijgt voor de zoveelste keer. De belasting op de aan- en verkoop van aandelen stijgt van 0,27 naar 0,35 procent. Het tarief voor obligaties stijgt van 0,09 naar 0,12 procent. Het tarief voor aandelen zal daardoor dubbel zo hoog zijn als in 2011.

This affects everybody. It means that whenever you buy and sell something 0,7% of the total amount will go to the government. It is the main reason why I try to avoid assignment when writing options. It is also a pretty high wealth tax if you want my opinion. Buy and hold investments offer a small way out (only paying the tax 1 time) as do CfD's as this tax is not applicable on them. At the moment you also own this tax when you have a foreign account but there is a court appeal that might rule in our favour. Let's hope so.

This is why I fear they'll be increasing the tax on equities (mentioned above) in the future as well...

Quote
Dividenden tot 627 euro worden vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Als we veronderstellen dat het dividendrendement gemiddeld 3,5 procent bedraagt, zijn aandelenportefeuilles tot bijna 18.000 euro volledig vrijgesteld van roerende voorheffing. Grotere aandelenportefeuilles zijn gedeeltelijk vrijgesteld. De vrijstelling wordt toegekend via de belastingaangifte. Van Overtveldt: ‘Beleggers zullen eerst roerende voorheffing moeten betalen op alle dividenden en kunnen dan 30 procent van 627 euro of 188 euro terugvorderen via de belastingaangifte.’

A small win. But very small. 188 euro back, via the taxform? Meaning you get it back 2 years after paying it.
I'm annoyed by these kind of rules. It's basically a peanut they're throwing at you. At least make it a decent number if you're gonna introduce extra complexity in the already complex system...
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 03:31:17 AM by TheShinyHorse »

Educated_Fool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Belgium
  • freedom on my mind
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #183 on: July 31, 2017, 10:24:35 AM »
There is now a series on channel 4 called 'how to retire at 40'. You can't watch from outside the U.K. and at the moment no luck via 'alternative' ways. But quiet a few shows of channel 4 end up becoming available if one knows where to look ...
The hola vpn app rulez. I'm afraid its just one episode. Anyway I liked it. The articles in newspapers about FI always have a negative undertone.

Amber Tree

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Location: Belgium
  • Aiming for FIRE 2029
    • Amber Tree Leaves
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #184 on: August 08, 2017, 03:17:16 PM »


There's also an interesting article on a couple lesbians that payed there morgage in 4 years.
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3208332/2017/07/13/Koppel-betaalt-lening-af-in-vier-jaar-Zo-hebben-ze-het-gedaan.dhtml?show=art
It's a shame a lot of people are sceptical in the comments.


Weird couple. thet now drive a BMW Z4... We all make our own choices... Looks like they aim for FAT FIRE

PR83

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #185 on: September 01, 2017, 04:51:11 AM »
Anyone heard of ListMinut.be
Looks like some fun thing for some side income...

https://listminut.be/nl/legal_sharing_economy

Educated_Fool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Belgium
  • freedom on my mind
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #186 on: September 06, 2017, 12:34:38 PM »
Don't know the site. Interesting!

http://www.nsz.be/nl/nieuws/detail/erkenning-voor-acht-deelplatformen

There 8 platforms in total.

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #187 on: October 10, 2017, 06:49:04 AM »
story about a Belgium guy achieving FI in Dubai:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/money/dubai-resident-i-retired-at-37-after-achieving-financial-independence-in-two-years-1.665613

looks like he learned about the concept via the boglehead forum

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #188 on: April 23, 2018, 07:00:05 AM »
I'm thinking of entering semi-retirement...

Still want to work: learn new stuff, and stay covered by social healthcare and build up pension rights... Making money is secondary, but would still be nice if I could still build up my stash even more. Flexibility and free time are the most important things right now.
I'm thinking about moving abroad (Spain) as well (maybe part time)...

Any ideas/books/blogs on this matter (especially for Belgians/Europeans)? A couple of things I am starting to think about:
  • zelfstandige in hoofdberoep, of een BVBA oprichten, join a startup?
  • start a business in Belgium, or maybe abroad for tax reasons?
  • goede boekhouder?

I have been active in the IT sector during my career. I can program (Java, C, C++, Python), but not an expert. Was mainly doing project/product management.
If people have ideas about a cool startup which I could join, or if they want to outsource some work, feel free to PM me.

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2018, 05:11:19 AM »
If you can get location independant work a compagnie in Malta or something like that could be very, very good from a tax view ;-).

Perhaps first try the living abroad while still working for a Belgian compagnie (because it makes moving back a lot easier) and if everything goes well then also off shore the work ..

My work is looking for Pyhthon developper so I send you a PM.

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #190 on: July 03, 2018, 12:32:21 PM »
Thanks a lot financialfreedomsloth for inquiring for me, but any new position will be postponed till later in the year or next year.

For the last year I've taken "Tijdskrediet", and I've decided to go back to my old job (after 12 months) for a couple of months (opzegtermijn uitdoen). It will be fun, and it's only a couple of months anyway. So this year I will work for a couple of months as an employee (werknemer).
I'm doubting whether I will work for 2, 3 or 4 months this year before finally quitting.

One of the factors I'm taking into account is whether this will period will make 2018 count as a "complete working year" for my pension. I read that if you work fulltime for 4 months, it will be counted as a complete year for your pension: http://www.onprvp.fgov.be/NL/profes/benefits/retirement/age/paginas/default.aspx.

Anybody have any ideas/info on this? Other things I might be missing? Obviously an extra month's pay and some small benefits (slightly larger "13th month", holiday bonus etc).

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #191 on: July 07, 2018, 03:58:34 AM »
No idea about the pension thing. But I do need to investigate as my retirement plan is to work a little bit every year. The tax free amount does decrease from 7 730 to 7 430 if you earn more than 45 750 euro. So going a little over 45 750 euro can cost you more in taxes than the extra couple hundred you earn ... Keep that in mind.

'Het gewone basisbedrag van de belastingvrije som bedraagt in principe voor aanslagjaar 2019 € 7.430. Mensen met een belastbaar inkomen onder een bepaald bedrag krijgen een verhoogde belastingvrije som van € 7.730. Het plafond wordt nu sinds 1 januari 2018 ingrijpend verhoogd tot € 45.750, waardoor meer mensen in aanmerking zullen komen voor de verhoogde belastingvrije som '

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #192 on: July 07, 2018, 04:11:20 AM »
Thanks a lot financialfreedomsloth for inquiring for me, but any new position will be postponed till later in the year or next year.

For the last year I've taken "Tijdskrediet", and I've decided to go back to my old job (after 12 months) for a couple of months (opzegtermijn uitdoen). It will be fun, and it's only a couple of months anyway. So this year I will work for a couple of months as an employee (werknemer).
I'm doubting whether I will work for 2, 3 or 4 months this year before finally quitting.

One of the factors I'm taking into account is whether this will period will make 2018 count as a "complete working year" for my pension. I read that if you work fulltime for 4 months, it will be counted as a complete year for your pension: http://www.onprvp.fgov.be/NL/profes/benefits/retirement/age/paginas/default.aspx.

Anybody have any ideas/info on this? Other things I might be missing? Obviously an extra month's pay and some small benefits (slightly larger "13th month", holiday bonus etc).
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #193 on: July 08, 2018, 03:23:28 AM »
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.
Yeah, I know about that. I don't think it will count if I resign myself (which I will probably do). For sure I can't get unemployment benefits... I don't think I can convince my boss to fire me :-p
Starting next year you also have to work for 3 months in another job before being eligible to apply... They are making it harder and harder, you basically need to get yourself fired.

So it seems more and more unlikely I'll every be able to receive something back from "vadertje staat" in that regard.

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #194 on: July 16, 2018, 12:15:51 PM »
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.
I don't think I can convince my boss to fire me :-p
you basically need to get yourself fired.
Why do you think it will be hard to convince your boss to fir you?
If you are a good employee and you assure him you will work the full termination period (opzegtermijn) it doesn't cost him a dime.
Just tell him you need time to re-evaluate certain things in your life.

The other possibility is to indeed line up a temporay position somewhere else for three months. Then quit the fix job, do the temporary job and do not accept any prolongation of the temporary job (worst case scenario is you need to do three months of interim job that sucks ...)

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #195 on: July 20, 2018, 12:30:27 PM »
Also: periods of unemployment do count for your pension.
I don't think I can convince my boss to fire me :-p
you basically need to get yourself fired.
Why do you think it will be hard to convince your boss to fir you?
If you are a good employee and you assure him you will work the full termination period (opzegtermijn) it doesn't cost him a dime.
Just tell him you need time to re-evaluate certain things in your life.

The other possibility is to indeed line up a temporay position somewhere else for three months. Then quit the fix job, do the temporary job and do not accept any prolongation of the temporary job (worst case scenario is you need to do three months of interim job that sucks ...)
Hmm, he is a bit of a man with liberal principles. In the past he has complained about people "taking advantage of the system".
I've never really entertained the idea myself that seriously, because of principal reasons. I know you have a different opinion on this.
I'll give it some more thought over the weekend.

financialfreedomsloth

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 187
  • Location: Belgium
    • financial freedom sloth
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #196 on: July 21, 2018, 03:50:32 AM »
If it is principles standing in your way: use the unemployment money to do good.

It is still a safety cushion for you as you can stop your charity when you need to AND you will probably put the money to better use than our government would... Hell, it will probably lead to a paying gig ...

It would also make for one hell of an interesting blog ("I reached financial independence and now use my unemployment benefits to help others") and give you something to do in retirement ...

Also, my main principle has always been that principles are nice and good but one should not be to strict on principles (and  I am very strict on that one ! ;-)

Pannenkoek

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #197 on: July 22, 2018, 08:27:00 AM »
Interesting thread guys. I'm a fellow mustachian/boglehead from Belgium aiming to be FI by age 35.

Read through the thread and learned a bunch of useful stuff. So if I understand it correctly there are 2 big disadvantages if I would retire at 35 and never work again:

  • No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair. Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
  • No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 04:34:20 AM by Pannenkoek »

TheShinyHorse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 26
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #198 on: July 23, 2018, 02:17:50 PM »
If it is principles standing in your way: use the unemployment money to do good.
It is still a safety cushion for you as you can stop your charity when you need to AND you will probably put the money to better use than our government would... Hell, it will probably lead to a paying gig ...
It would also make for one hell of an interesting blog ("I reached financial independence and now use my unemployment benefits to help others") and give you something to do in retirement ...
Also, my main principle has always been that principles are nice and good but one should not be to strict on principles (and  I am very strict on that one ! ;-)
Haha, I see you're a big fan of that route. I've done a little bit of research and everyone is advising employers NOT to do this, because they're committing "valsheid in geschrifte". I very much doubt my employer would be amused by this proposal. And I might be working in the future for him (maybe as an independent contractor).
It pains me a bit, because I know a lot of people do this, but I will look for other options to get some side money.

No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair.[/s] Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
I think that currently you need to have worked for at least 15 years (working 4 months/year is sufficient for an employee) in order to receive some minimum pension (probably won't be much):
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2016/02/11/_voorstel_minimumpensioenergnadeligvoorvrouwen-1-2570101: "Daardoor hebben mensen die vandaag 15 jaar een derde hebben gewerkt of gelijkgestelde periodes al recht op dat minimumpensioen."

So it might be worth it to collect a couple of years on the way extra (either as an employee, being independent, or being eligible for unemployment benefits) in order to qualify for that minimum number of years.

No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.[/li][/list]
That's what I understood as well. It's strange that this is so high. If you are an independent "zelfstandige", thats the minimum amount (quarterly) you'd have to pay for social contributions (sociale bijdrage). So you're better off being independent, earning a bit of money here and there and let those years count for your pension as well.

Pannenkoek

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Belgian Moustachians
« Reply #199 on: July 23, 2018, 03:29:30 PM »
    No pension at 67. Sucks a bit. So even though I've worked for 12 years and paid my taxes I don't receive any pension? Doesn't seem fair.[/s] Wait, think I misunderstood. I'll still get 12/45 right?
    I think that currently you need to have worked for at least 15 years (working 4 months/year is sufficient for an employee) in order to receive some minimum pension (probably won't be much):
    https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2016/02/11/_voorstel_minimumpensioenergnadeligvoorvrouwen-1-2570101: "Daardoor hebben mensen die vandaag 15 jaar een derde hebben gewerkt of gelijkgestelde periodes al recht op dat minimumpensioen."

    So it might be worth it to collect a couple of years on the way extra (either as an employee, being independent, or being eligible for unemployment benefits) in order to qualify for that minimum number of years.

    I researched it a bit more and I think I will receive a pro rata pension. so if I work 12 years, it will be 12/45 (yes, this will be peanuts). If you work for 30 years, your pension will be upped to at least the minimum pension.

    Like they say here:

    "Afhankelijk van de duur en de intensiteit van de tewerkstelling per kalenderjaar kan volgens bepaalde criteria een pensioen verhoogd worden tot een bepaald minimum." (https://www.socialsecurity.be/citizen/nl/pensioen/je-pensioen-als-werknemer/gewaarborgd-minimumpensioen-werknemer)

    No health insurance anymore. But I could get a 'statuut verblijvende in België' and get comprehensive health insurance by paying a quarterly fee: https://www.cm.be/media/Bijdrage-verblijvenden_tcm47-45304.pdf. Is this correct? Not sure how the 'jaarinkomen' is calculated if your only source of income is selling accumulating index funds but this would mean max 725€ per quarter currently.[/li][/list]
    That's what I understood as well. It's strange that this is so high. If you are an independent "zelfstandige", thats the minimum amount (quarterly) you'd have to pay for social contributions (sociale bijdrage). So you're better off being independent, earning a bit of money here and there and let those years count for your pension as well.

    I'm hoping they don't count accumulating index funds as "income" since there aren't any dividends. In that case I would pay 0.

    They say:

    "De bijdrage die je als verblijvende moet betalen, is afhankelijk van je bruto belastbaar gezinsinkomen van 2018." But there isn't any 'bruto belastbaar inkomen' as accumulating (stock) funds aren't taxed :) (not sure if I understand all of this correctly)