Author Topic: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread  (Read 42168 times)

Prospector

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #350 on: March 09, 2017, 01:04:36 PM »
And just to make sure everyone is clear, our meetup is nothing like the MMM one mentioned here:

http://moneyboss.com/frugal-shaming-and-financial-one-upmanship/

We are all very aware of the "log in our eye" and admit them to the group.  I still have cable and a home phone.  There are two of us living in 1400 sq ft.

I don't think you should move. This makes me feel good about our house. Which also still has a home phone.  :)
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PJ

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #351 on: March 09, 2017, 10:46:32 PM »
And just to make sure everyone is clear, our meetup is nothing like the MMM one mentioned here:

http://moneyboss.com/frugal-shaming-and-financial-one-upmanship/

We are all very aware of the "log in our eye" and admit them to the group.  I still have cable and a home phone.  There are two of us living in 1400 sq ft.

I don't think you should move. This makes me feel good about our house. Which also still has a home phone.  :)

Wow, plainjane, I'm really glad you linked to that.  Do you know if it's been posted anywhere else on the forum?  I haven't been online much today.  I'm actually really upset on behalf of the folks who participated in that meet-up - I feel like the person who shared those thoughts with J.D. Roth betrayed the trust of the other people in that group.  And I definitely think that a really good article about that topic could have been written without basically calling them out in such an identifying way.  Anything he's subsequently posted back-pedalling about his relationship with MMM himself doesn't make it better, because it's the people who attend that meet-up that have been publicly shamed. 

I've made a comment, which I rarely do.  It's awaiting moderation, but I'll post it here too.  I made it in response to another person's comment.

Other poster said:  I had that happen once were I was talking to a very frugal PF blogger and told her about how I was trying to cut back more but there were some areas that were more difficult-but Iím still trying to find solutions. I pointed what those things are. The next week there was a blog post basically outlining everything I did (without saying my name) and blogging about how she does it better or she canít believe anyone would spend money on that. Perfect example, eh? Great article!

My response:  Tonya, you seem to be upset about finding your personal details Ė even without your name Ė being published by that frugal PF blogger. Yet you are commending this article, which essentially does the same thing to others. Iím curious how you think the people who attended that MMM meet-up might be feeling right about now, first being talked about behind their back, and then having that information shared in an article? Especially given that anyone participating in the MMM forums would be able to identify at least their online personas!

For the record, I am a participating member of the MMM forum, but not in the U.S. Iíve attended a couple of MMM meet-ups, and like someone else said, have experienced 100% support, an 0% shame.

J.D. Roth, I think it is a shame that you felt it was necessary to identify this particular group of people who chose to trust in meeting up with virtual strangers, and expose them for the sake of an article. This same article could easily have been written about the frugal one-upmanship dynamic prevalent in *various* parts of the PF/frugality world, without any reference to MMM, the location of the meet-up, or its date.


Hey guys, can we make a pact? 

What happens in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up, stays in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up?  And especially, is not shared in a blog, or shared with a blogger, without permission from anyone who might be implicated in the story.  I think that kind of trust is important, and I even suspect that consent would be freely given, as long as privacy is appropriately respected...
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plainjane

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #352 on: March 10, 2017, 07:09:48 AM »
Do you know if it's been posted anywhere else on the forum?  I haven't been online much today. 
[...]
Hey guys, can we make a pact? 

What happens in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up, stays in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up?  And especially, is not shared in a blog, or shared with a blogger, without permission from anyone who might be implicated in the story.  I think that kind of trust is important, and I even suspect that consent would be freely given, as long as privacy is appropriately respected...

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but the forum moves so quickly.  I only caught it because it was highlighted in Rockstar Finance.

I don't know how I feel about "what happens/stays".  I mean, the bacon syrup is being joked about - granted I brought it up here first - and I like that it gives people a sense (I was going to say flavour, but decided that would be too obvious) that we are pretty low key and welcoming.  But I also feel that people should be careful about sharing stories online that aren't theirs.  IDK.  It feels like this should be a balance.  Similar to how my SO has a name at the meetup, but not online?
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Prospector

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #353 on: March 10, 2017, 07:20:16 AM »
Do you know if it's been posted anywhere else on the forum?  I haven't been online much today. 
[...]
Hey guys, can we make a pact? 

What happens in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up, stays in the Toronto MMM Meet-Up?  And especially, is not shared in a blog, or shared with a blogger, without permission from anyone who might be implicated in the story.  I think that kind of trust is important, and I even suspect that consent would be freely given, as long as privacy is appropriately respected...

I haven't seen it anywhere else, but the forum moves so quickly.  I only caught it because it was highlighted in Rockstar Finance.

I don't know how I feel about "what happens/stays".  I mean, the bacon syrup is being joked about - granted I brought it up here first - and I like that it gives people a sense (I was going to say flavour, but decided that would be too obvious) that we are pretty low key and welcoming.  But I also feel that people should be careful about sharing stories online that aren't theirs.  IDK.  It feels like this should be a balance.  Similar to how my SO has a name at the meetup, but not online?

Yeah - Norbert sounds like a great guy.

But seriously, at the meetup, its a bunch of pals around a table. Ideas are shared, but I think discretion needs to be applied. Discretion means that the essence of what is said can be shared without details and without being a dick. The problem arises when someone with a poor sense of discretion starts sharing beyond the group - and there is no way to control that one individual - or know who it may be.

When we were active in sailing, I once wrote up an article for a local magazine. I shared it with a forumite for editing. The other person agreed it was great - then submitted it on my behalf to a larger publication - because it was so great. The larger publication claimed rights on it without ever publishing, and the local mag could no longer use the piece. I lost out on both ends. Poor discretion can hurt people. A lot.

You never know what people might do, and although we have a sense of each other, trust is a gamble. The way I see things, my role is to be as trustworthy and to have as much discretion as I can. But then I have to trust others to do the same, while expecting them not to. No one here has signed a code of ethics, and no one has made any promises. Its up to you to decide what you are comfortable sharing and how much.

FWIW, at the meetup, Jane and I were discussing our income levels - I was comfortable sharing that with our group, but was more concerned about someone else in the plaza overhearing. I trust our people. but I still know its on me to decide how much is appropriate to share. Of course I broadcast that same information all over my journal...
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PJ

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #354 on: March 10, 2017, 11:23:55 AM »
As you say Prospector, we haven't signed a code of conduct, and I'm not suggesting actually writing one out.  But I do think it's worth stating publicly that there are assumptions we make when we get together, which is that we are trusting each other with certain details of our personal and our financial lives, and that we hope - no, expect - that people will exercise discretion with them.  Of course, we can't control what people do, but we can as a subset of the larger MMM community, make it clear what the community standards are.  Just like, by posting the article here, plainjane, you're suggesting to any Toronto area lurkers that frugal one-upmanship is not part of our community standard, and subtly communicating to them that they shouldn't come to a meet-up with that attitude.

For anyone linking over to the article, you'll see the comment I made.  I think he missed my point in the response, so I will post a follow-up.  I'm just trying to formulate it in my mind first.  The thing is that he could have told exactly the same story, not naming the city in which the meet-up took place, or which online community it related to. That would have been fine.  My big issue is that he's not actually kept things as anonymous as he thinks.  Anyone who read this forum can figure out who the people are, who are usually a part of that group.

(I have a secondary issue with the fact that he can't say for sure what that group is like, since he wasn't at the meet-up himself and is relying on information filtered through someone else's perceptions.  But let's not go there right now.)

TL; DR - Sharing bacon and cookie reports are fine, but let's keep personal details we learn about each other to ourselves.  Share people's stories with others only in ways that don't risk them being personally identified.  There's a big difference in saying "I was talking to someone the other day who's trying to change careers because their industry has lots of issues," and saying "I was talking to someone at the Toronto MMM Meet-Up, who works in X industry, and is trying to change careers because of it."  Remember that anyone you share with, may also share with others, and you lose control over how they tell the story.  Some may even choose to share that story with the wider world.  (Oh, see, I did go there after all!)
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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #355 on: March 22, 2017, 07:13:49 AM »
Hey Torontonians, my daughter just got accepted into the Film Studies program at Ryerson in the fall.  Any leads on housing, jobs, or contacts in the biz would be welcomed!
Plus this means I'll be in TO occasionally and I'm always up for meeting more MMMers! 
We live in Kingston.
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Prospector

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Re: Toronto Community/Meetup Discussion Thread
« Reply #356 on: March 22, 2017, 07:17:35 AM »
Hey Torontonians, my daughter just got accepted into the Film Studies program at Ryerson in the fall.  Any leads on housing, jobs, or contacts in the biz would be welcomed!
Plus this means I'll be in TO occasionally and I'm always up for meeting more MMMers! 
We live in Kingston.

Congrats to your daughter! My boss is a Ryerson grad from Kingston - she has many stories...
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