Author Topic: Level II quotes  (Read 812 times)

ether161

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Level II quotes
« on: September 14, 2018, 04:26:23 PM »
Anyone know if there are brokers that provide true real time level II quotes (depth, ECN. and bid/ask) for american equities?
I've tried think or swim but they only give level II for a couple ECNs.

ILikeDividends

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 04:48:42 PM »
Schwab does, for options.  Not sure about equities.

https://www.schwab.com/active-trader/insights/content/how-to-use-streetsmart-edge-tools

I don't use it, so I can't comment on specifics.  There's a small fee if you're not a frequent trader, so I had it disabled.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:54:11 PM by ILikeDividends »

theolympians

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 01:06:54 PM »
OK, Ok, I will ask....What is a "level II" quote?

ether161

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 04:20:44 PM »
Level II quotes provide a greater level of detail stock price. There is no one unified stock exchange, but instead there are dozens of electronics communication networks (ECN) to exchange stocks.

Level II will show you the bid and ask for each stock and how many shares are on the bid and ask.

You can view an image of what level II looks like here:

boarder42

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 05:40:54 PM »
Better yet why do you need this. Are you smarter than the markets?

ILikeDividends

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 11:25:19 PM »
Better yet why do you need this. Are you smarter than the markets?

Not just smarter.  Are you faster, too?  I can't imagine a flesh-and-blood human being (outside of some comic book superheros) who is able to react fast enough to exploit this level of information.  To me it is just bass, treble, volume, and static, wildly fluctuating way too fast to do anything but watch it change.

Also, for the home-gamer, the information is about 300 milliseconds old by the time you even see it.  I can see how algorithmic trading machines, networked directly into the exchange at close proximity, could exploit it.  They literally see your future split seconds before you do.  But for a home-gamer?  The information has already been acted on by the time you even see it.

Worse, the home-gamer is at least another 300 milliseconds away from getting any order, in reaction to the already-old information, back into the exchange for execution.  And that assumes 0 seconds of time to assess the information, and decide how to act on it.  And 0 seconds to type in or adjust an order before you do send it off to the exchange.

So, realistically, the home-gamer is several whole seconds behind the competition on the information curve, even in the best of scenarios; which is an absolute eternity in terms of the sheer super-computing horsepower that they have, and that you don't have.

Then again, I can't truly claim to grasp whatever the methods are (whether real or imaginary) that would make this information useful to a home-gamer.  That's why I have the option turned off in my own accounts.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 12:35:56 AM by ILikeDividends »

Blueberries

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 01:09:34 PM »
E*Trade offers it with E*Trade Pro.


Better yet why do you need this. Are you smarter than the markets?

Perhaps s/he needs this because it works with his/her trading style.

wheezle

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 02:04:42 PM »
I'm also curious what the OP thinks can be gained with Level II+ quotes.

IMO, depth of book used to mean something, and still does in some OTC stocks, but if you plan on trading NMS stocks (NASD, NYSE), you're not going to find any information at all in the L2 quotes.

marty998

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 02:28:13 PM »
I'm also curious what the OP thinks can be gained with Level II+ quotes.

IMO, depth of book used to mean something, and still does in some OTC stocks, but if you plan on trading NMS stocks (NASD, NYSE), you're not going to find any information at all in the L2 quotes.

Agree - market depth is all bullshit now. So many fake orders designed to manipulate prices by algorithms.

The little guy has no chance but to place limit orders.

wheezle

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 02:33:59 PM »
Agree - market depth is all bullshit now. So many fake orders designed to manipulate prices by algorithms.

The little guy has no chance but to place limit orders.
And what isn't fake is invisible.

I can literally enter an "iceberg" order with my teensie little brokerage account, that only HFTs will be able to see. You won't see it on L2 quotes. Or I could choose to route the trade to a dark pool. One of the 60 of them, or however many there are now.

L2 is pretty much a sham. And yeah, limit orders are awesome.

joleran

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Re: Level II quotes
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2018, 01:52:35 PM »