Author Topic: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion  (Read 241123 times)

West996

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #600 on: December 11, 2017, 05:39:52 PM »
I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?

k-vette

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #601 on: December 11, 2017, 09:26:32 PM »
Back to the discussion of portfolios...

Anyone holding LTC? I've been following the recent rise. Any chance it actually makes it to 0.25 BTC down the road? Or hell, even 0.1 BTC (it is just over 0.01 BTC now)?

Nearly tripled my LTC value in 2 weeks.  I'll take It!  Insanity of cryptocurrency.

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #602 on: December 12, 2017, 08:34:38 AM »
I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?

chop that into a quarter and that's about the right position size. This is a spicy meatball of a momentum play and the winner of the game gets off the train one stop before the derailment.  You shouldn't take a position size that large without your own value model.  unless of course its VTSAX :)

West996

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #603 on: December 12, 2017, 09:54:32 AM »
I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?

chop that into a quarter and that's about the right position size. This is a spicy meatball of a momentum play and the winner of the game gets off the train one stop before the derailment.  You shouldn't take a position size that large without your own value model.  unless of course its VTSAX :)

Are you suggesting I only invest 2.5k period or do it in 2.5k chunks and store those separately?

@shadow the problem with the Nano solution is they are expensive I wouldn't want to buy more then one.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 09:56:47 AM by West996 »

Optimiser

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #604 on: December 12, 2017, 10:02:16 AM »
Back to the discussion of portfolios...

Anyone holding LTC? I've been following the recent rise. Any chance it actually makes it to 0.25 BTC down the road? Or hell, even 0.1 BTC (it is just over 0.01 BTC now)?

Nearly tripled my LTC value in 2 weeks.  I'll take It!  Insanity of cryptocurrency.

I received some mining profits last week in LTC and hadn't sold them out of laziness. I was quite pleasantly surprised to see them up well over 100% in that time.

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #605 on: December 12, 2017, 10:57:12 AM »
I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?

chop that into a quarter and that's about the right position size. This is a spicy meatball of a momentum play and the winner of the game gets off the train one stop before the derailment.  You shouldn't take a position size that large without your own value model.  unless of course its VTSAX :)

Are you suggesting I only invest 2.5k period or do it in 2.5k chunks and store those separately?

@shadow the problem with the Nano solution is they are expensive I wouldn't want to buy more then one.

keep your total position size small, to the 2.5 k ish total size, if you understand what a momentum play is. If you don't, then skip this speculation.  BTC plays right now require an exit plan.

Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) isn't a good strategy. 


Tonyahu

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #606 on: December 12, 2017, 01:12:15 PM »
I've come to the conclusion that a mere $10 trillion crypto marketcap won't suffice. We will most likely see a marketcap that dramatically surpasses that amount.

Old-thinking is stuck and mired in physical assets, while new paradigm ushers in an era of algorithmic and digital assets. There's alot of unknown unknown potential, but people recognize the potential nonetheless.

I feel anything under 1T (where we are) is still weak sauce and not even near mainstream.

The Dot Com bubble was 7T when adjusted for inflation.

10T is not out of the realm of possibility. If that happens, oh boy.....oh boy....

But to be frank, I am already starting to implement my risk management and will be pulling out 5% of total portfolio at every stop. First stop hit, second stop is very close.

Cheers to all, enjoy this wild ride!

Syonyk

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #607 on: December 12, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
Counterpoint:

When people who know nothing of "Bit Coin" are taking on debt to buy them as the next major investment, people are mortgaging their homes to buy it, and you've got trends for "bitcoin credit card" doing, well, this: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2017-01-01%202017-12-31&q=bitcoin%20credit%20card

And mainstream media is covering it extensively?

Historically, that looks like what things look like at the peak, just before a bubble bursts.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #608 on: December 12, 2017, 02:46:58 PM »
Mid-point:

It is quite possible for the statements "bitcoin is in a bubble" and "bitcoin will be worth $1 trillion someday" to both be true at the same time. US real estate was in a major bubble in the mid-2000s, but that doesn't mean prices went to zero or that prices never increased again after the crash.

I tend to think the first statement is almost certainly true, we're seeing lots and lots of people buy bitcoin (both in the USA and in places like Korea) without knowing anything about it except that they read somewhere that the price is going up a lot.

I also tend to think the second statement is likely to be true if you amend it to "bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency will be worth $1 trillion someday." I also think the current surge in prices and transaction fees has made it less likely (though certainly not impossible) that currency with be bitcoin. The one big advantage bitcoin had over all the altcoins was the network effects of being the currency the most people had heard about and the currency the most online and in person businesses were already set up to accept payments in. Those two advantages will be substantially impaired by another major price crash (when/if it happens), and by the $20 transaction fees (already causing major merchants to either back off of accepting cyptocurrency payments entirely or switch over to lower fee currencies like ETH/LTC/BCC/MON*).

If the lightning network were already active today maybe it would be different, but I think we will find that once people switch over to using a different currency to process payments the long term damage is done.

*These are the only cryptocurrencies I've actually heard of people using to buy things online, apologies if I've missed others.

jmecklenborg

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #609 on: December 12, 2017, 03:43:02 PM »
Anyone holding LTC? I've been following the recent rise. Any chance it actually makes it to 0.25 BTC down the road? Or hell, even 0.1 BTC (it is just over 0.01 BTC now)?

I bought a solitary Litecoin at $26 back in May.  The ETH I bought at the time has merely 2-3X'd, not 10X'd.  Obviously I wish I had bought more! 

I know a guy who bough a single bitcoin in 2016 for $650.  He just sold it last week for $18,000.  There aren't many people out there who pulled that off. 

phil22

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #610 on: December 12, 2017, 05:37:25 PM »
I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?

chop that into a quarter and that's about the right position size. This is a spicy meatball of a momentum play and the winner of the game gets off the train one stop before the derailment.  You shouldn't take a position size that large without your own value model.  unless of course its VTSAX :)

Are you suggesting I only invest 2.5k period or do it in 2.5k chunks and store those separately?

@shadow the problem with the Nano solution is they are expensive I wouldn't want to buy more then one.

if you were using actual physical paper wallets then yes you could use more than one and keep them in separate locations.  if you're using a hardware Ledger wallet then you would only buy one of those and keep the seed phrase written down, on paper, in several secure locations -- NOT on any computer anywhere .  if you are not comfortable holding $10k in a single wallet or the technical aspect of securely storing it, then perhaps it's still too early on for you to speculate with bitcoin.  perhaps wait until an ETF is available.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #611 on: December 12, 2017, 07:48:52 PM »
I still have some Etoys stock certificates around here somewhere...

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #612 on: December 13, 2017, 10:59:27 AM »
Cover your expenses so you do not have any regrets and let the rest ride if you are still bullish!

Done and then some. I also covered a very not mustachian dinner :)

Tonyahu

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #613 on: December 14, 2017, 02:10:18 PM »
I hope everyone is doing good, life is good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO2UOhGEC_A&feature=youtu.be&t=1070

Never forget what (part) of this movement is about.

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #614 on: December 14, 2017, 10:32:23 PM »
Anyone buying XRP ?  Supposed to be the next big cc

Tonyahu

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #615 on: December 15, 2017, 12:43:02 PM »
Anyone buying XRP ?  Supposed to be the next big cc

No, it's ridiculously overpriced. Centralized. Ripple owns 50%+ of supply. Ripple doesn't even use XRP for their protocol.

It's a useless vehicle based purely on speculation, IMO.

bobcobb7

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #616 on: December 15, 2017, 03:50:03 PM »
So for those in the US, how are you tax planning for cryptos? The simple buy-hold-sell of the same coin is simple to treat like stocks. But, it appears the crypto to crypto exchanges do not count as like-kind exchanges so all of those trades will trigger a taxable event even though you received no cash. I think that it is how it works, but not positive. That definitely makes things a bit more difficult.

Also the BCH and BTG splits could be considered taxable and assigned a cost basis of their value on the first day you took position. The value when you received them would count as income.

I'm planning on doing the taxes as best declared by the experts and IRS briefing in 2014. I know there are a few crypto tax programs out there.

How are the rest of you handling this? Apologies if this has been discussed previously.

BattlaP

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #617 on: December 16, 2017, 04:06:12 AM »
Old-thinking is stuck and mired in physical assets, while new paradigm ushers in an era of algorithmic and digital assets. There's alot of unknown unknown potential, but people recognize the potential nonetheless.

I really can't believe that I'm now seeing non-ironic uses of this phrase on a regular basis.
I feel privileged to be a witness to the ongoing lesson of cryptocrazy, however it turns out.

Syonyk

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #618 on: December 16, 2017, 07:42:01 AM »
I really can't believe that I'm now seeing non-ironic uses of this phrase on a regular basis.
I feel privileged to be a witness to the ongoing lesson of cryptocrazy, however it turns out.

"A good understanding of the history of commodity currencies would have led to my own island by now." :)

Sadly, not really the case.

Though a friend did get a bitcoin investment tip from a guy working at a gas station, which I feel is pretty close to "stock tips from a shoe shine boy."

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #619 on: December 16, 2017, 06:52:47 PM »
Anyone buying XRP ?  Supposed to be the next big cc

No, it's ridiculously overpriced. Centralized. Ripple owns 50%+ of supply. Ripple doesn't even use XRP for their protocol.

It's a useless vehicle based purely on speculation, IMO.

What about GBTC?  I don't see hardly anyone mentioning that on this thread.Tripled since thanksgiving.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #620 on: December 16, 2017, 07:04:22 PM »
What about GBTC?  I don't see hardly anyone mentioning that on this thread.Tripled since thanksgiving.

Terrible, terrible deal. Each share of GBTC represents ~$1,600 of underlying crypocurrency, but sells for ~$2,600.

phil22

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #621 on: December 16, 2017, 07:11:06 PM »
What about GBTC?  I don't see hardly anyone mentioning that on this thread.Tripled since thanksgiving.

if someone really doesn't understand the technical side and doesn't want to get involved with personally securing private keys -- basically, they want to purely speculate on bitcoin -- then GBTC is the only way to do that now.  it's a terrible idea, but it's the only way.

for example, bitcoin has forked a few times recently and GBTC just sold their customer's coins on another fork.  there is no reason for an impartial custodian to do this.  GBTC is not fork-neutral which could blow up in their faces if there ever actually is a "flip" from one fork to another fork (becoming the consensus fork) and they loose all their investors' money.

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #622 on: December 17, 2017, 12:46:57 AM »
Anyone buying XRP ?  Supposed to be the next big cc

No, it's ridiculously overpriced. Centralized. Ripple owns 50%+ of supply. Ripple doesn't even use XRP for their protocol.

It's a useless vehicle based purely on speculation, IMO.

Can you elaborate? Serious question

Dutchie

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #623 on: December 19, 2017, 06:03:03 AM »
Hi :) I haven't posted here in a long time, and I came back to see some "broader" opinions on cryptocurrencies, compared to the obviously biased opinions on crypto-forums.
I've been reading MMM's blog for many years now, but barely use the forum.

I know I'm late to the party but I'm thinking of about 10k in Bitcoin. My networth is about 150k. I wouldn't be happy if it all went poof but I understand you also have to take some risk to really get a jump forward. I'm just really scared about the storage and security of it. I'm researching paper wallets and all of that but it is as scary as hell.

Should I split up the 10k into two 5k wallets? Or smaller?
chop that into a quarter and that's about the right position size.
Paper wallets are pretty straight forward, although not very intuitive. Make sure you understand them before going in big. Bitaddress.org is the most trusted site to generate them, but don't take my word for it: do your own due diligence.
Splitting them up doesn't matter now, but it makes it much easier if you want to sell only a part of your holdings later on. If you spread 1 Bitcoin over four wallets with 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 Bitcoin each, you can just choose which one to empty to sell in the future. Paper wallets should not be used to withdraw only a part of the balance!

My story
I started keeping track of the value of my Bitcoin in May 2016, it was worth just under 1% of my networth. Before that, it wasn't worth registering the value, I collected it as "play money".
In January this year, it reached 3% of my networth, and since May this year I've started selling small amounts. This year I also got into some altcoins, but never more than 10-20% of my total crypto holdings. So far, I've sold (at current value) 7% of my networth (25% of my crypto), and my current crypto holdings are approximately 30-40% of my networth (I keep a broad margin because of it's volatility).
Now the scary part: I'm torn between FOMO and FUD! I'd never invest this much in something this volatile if I wouldn't have it already (=the FUD part), but I also don't want to miss out on a possible x10 in the coming years (=the FOMO part). I realize this isn't rational, but it has kinda grown on me.
If I would never have sold any crypto, my net worth would be 8% higher now.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 06:07:17 AM by Dutchie »

ketchup

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #624 on: December 19, 2017, 08:28:47 AM »
Now the scary part: I'm torn between FOMO and FUD! I'd never invest this much in something this volatile if I wouldn't have it already (=the FUD part), but I also don't want to miss out on a possible x10 in the coming years (=the FOMO part). I realize this isn't rational, but it has kinda grown on me.
If I would never have sold any crypto, my net worth would be 8% higher now.
My way of tackling this concern is cashing out a bit along the way.  I'm already ahead (on a USD basis) after my mining experiment, what I have left in BTC/BCH is just extra gains.  With what remains I think I'll cash out 25% of present holdings if it doubles from when I last sold (at $11,600), and if it keeps going, continue doing that.  This way, I've already more than made back my investment, I get to keep riding it in case we get to $1M/BTC by 2020 like John McAfee wants, but I get extra cash out along the way in case this whole thing is a bubble that pops down to $1/BTC in a month or a year.

hgjjgkj

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #625 on: December 19, 2017, 10:07:35 PM »
Let's say you had $10,000 of short term capital gains income in 12/31/17. So you get taxed on that. But then on1/2/2018 bitcoin crashes and your 10K (which you plowed back into BTC) then goes to 0. You still owe the tax from the prior year's gain right? Does the IRS offer some way to balance this out?

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #626 on: December 19, 2017, 11:44:45 PM »
Let's say you believe John McAfee and wanted to buy a bit coin that today was trading about $16,000.


How do you recommend to buy it?

Finallyunderstand

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #627 on: December 20, 2017, 05:56:10 AM »
Let's say you had $10,000 of short term capital gains income in 12/31/17. So you get taxed on that. But then on1/2/2018 bitcoin crashes and your 10K (which you plowed back into BTC) then goes to 0. You still owe the tax from the prior year's gain right? Does the IRS offer some way to balance this out?

only in the sense that you could then write off that loss on your 2018 taxes

thenextguy

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #628 on: December 20, 2017, 09:21:38 AM »
Let's say you had $10,000 of short term capital gains income in 12/31/17. So you get taxed on that. But then on1/2/2018 bitcoin crashes and your 10K (which you plowed back into BTC) then goes to 0. You still owe the tax from the prior year's gain right? Does the IRS offer some way to balance this out?

You can apply the loss against 2018 taxable income and capital gains.

sherr

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #629 on: December 20, 2017, 09:52:46 AM »
Let's say you had $10,000 of short term capital gains income in 12/31/17. So you get taxed on that. But then on1/2/2018 bitcoin crashes and your 10K (which you plowed back into BTC) then goes to 0. You still owe the tax from the prior year's gain right? Does the IRS offer some way to balance this out?

What the other guys said, but I want to make sure there's not a more fundamental misunderstanding here. You would only have any short-term capital gains if you sold your bitcoin ("realized" the gains). Just having the value of an asset appreciate on paper means nothing tax-wise, you only get taxed on the gains when you sell it. So in your scenario you're talking about having the value of your bitcoin appreciate $10k, selling it, and then buying bitcoin again with that money, and then watching it crash, and then selling it again (to "realize" the loss).

calpolyjohn

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #630 on: December 20, 2017, 11:08:19 AM »
Let's say you believe John McAfee and wanted to buy a bit coin that today was trading about $16,000.


How do you recommend to buy it?

You could make a coinbase account, sync your bank account, and use use that to process the buy.  I believe it takes about a week to actually "get" your bitcoin into your coinbase vault, but you will get it for the price it was the day you bought.

Aggie1999

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #631 on: December 20, 2017, 11:29:21 AM »
Let's say you believe John McAfee and wanted to buy a bit coin that today was trading about $16,000.


How do you recommend to buy it?

You could make a coinbase account, sync your bank account, and use use that to process the buy.  I believe it takes about a week to actually "get" your bitcoin into your coinbase vault, but you will get it for the price it was the day you bought.

Comments:

- The week to get the bitcoin is because Coinbase for some reason takes around a week to process an ACH bank transfer. No clue why it takes them so long when bank to bank, bank to brokerage, etc is 24 hours. Note if you buy with a credit card (just a small amount) then I think you get the bitcoin right away.

- Don't use Coinbase to buy/sell any big amount (1 BTC certainly counts). Coinbase takes a ~1.5% commission when buying and when selling. Use GDAX (Coinbases actual exchange). Google their maker/taker fee structure on how to trade for free.

phil22

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #632 on: December 20, 2017, 05:24:15 PM »
Let's say you believe John McAfee and wanted to buy a bit coin that today was trading about $16,000.

How do you recommend to buy it?

You could make a coinbase account, sync your bank account, and use use that to process the buy.  I believe it takes about a week to actually "get" your bitcoin into your coinbase vault, but you will get it for the price it was the day you bought.

Comments:

- The week to get the bitcoin is because Coinbase for some reason takes around a week to process an ACH bank transfer. No clue why it takes them so long when bank to bank, bank to brokerage, etc is 24 hours. Note if you buy with a credit card (just a small amount) then I think you get the bitcoin right away.

- Don't use Coinbase to buy/sell any big amount (1 BTC certainly counts). Coinbase takes a ~1.5% commission when buying and when selling. Use GDAX (Coinbases actual exchange). Google their maker/taker fee structure on how to trade for free.

if you're ok with the price on coinbase i think it's fine to just buy/sell with coinbase and not on GDAX.  the price on GDAX swings way more then 1.5% daily so you may or may not benefit from the lack of fees depending on the exact day/hour/minute you buy/sell.

and if you want to put ~$X into bitcoin, i would seriously consider buying the same unit value of both BTC and BCH right now (0.1 or 0.5 of both), or wait a few weeks/months for the craziness to play itself out.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 05:26:39 PM by phil22 »

thenextguy

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #633 on: December 20, 2017, 05:41:38 PM »
Yeah, you could easily lose 1.5% by chasing a limit order. Not discouraging anyway, but just be aware of that.

talltexan

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #634 on: December 21, 2017, 11:15:25 AM »
I read a lot of criticism of GBTC (disclosure: no position) because of the premium over NAV.

I think it's useful to think about what that premium buys you: same-day liquidity in an investment account. As long as the market continues to value that premium in a constant way, you buy it going in and sell it going out.

And if that investment account is tax-deferred, you get the ability to rebalance that money in a tax-deferred way.

thenextguy

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #635 on: December 21, 2017, 11:55:52 AM »
I read a lot of criticism of GBTC (disclosure: no position) because of the premium over NAV.

I think it's useful to think about what that premium buys you: same-day liquidity in an investment account. As long as the market continues to value that premium in a constant way, you buy it going in and sell it going out.

And if that investment account is tax-deferred, you get the ability to rebalance that money in a tax-deferred way.

There are reasons for investing GBTC. People just need to be aware of the risks.

Yes, if the premium stays the same while you get in and get out, it's not an issue. But if an ETF is announced, the premium could vanish in an instant.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #636 on: December 21, 2017, 12:02:47 PM »
"As long as the market continues to value that premium in a constant way, you buy it going in and sell it going out."

I think you've hit the nail on the head. My concern with the GBTC is indeed the stability of the premium. If things go great for bitcoin the premium should decline (because you'll see things like ETFs and futures launch). And if things go terrible the premium should also decline (because people will stop wanting to buy bitcoin in their retirement accounts if the price is declining). It seems a relatively safe prediction that a few years from now, things will either get better or get worse than they are today.


PDXTabs

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #638 on: December 21, 2017, 07:55:03 PM »
I went ahead and built a mining rig. Parts as follows:

 $$$ - Description
 118 - ASRock H81 PRO BTC R2.0
  53 - Intel Celeron G1840 Processor
  33 - 4GB RAM
 176 - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G2 power supply
  40 - 6 x PCIe riser cable
1380 - 6 x SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon RX 470 4GB "video cards"
  40 - Home made case/frame
  20 - 15A surge suppressor
------------
$1860

...

I wanted to do a quick update. Since the beginning of August this hardware has mined 3.0 ETH which is currently worth (as of this moment) ~$2160. I think I have spent ~$250 on electricity to do so, so I've now broken even on my hardware investment. Also, it has definitely been fun.

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #639 on: December 21, 2017, 07:59:52 PM »
I went ahead and built a mining rig. Parts as follows:

 $$$ - Description
 118 - ASRock H81 PRO BTC R2.0
  53 - Intel Celeron G1840 Processor
  33 - 4GB RAM
 176 - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G2 power supply
  40 - 6 x PCIe riser cable
1380 - 6 x SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon RX 470 4GB "video cards"
  40 - Home made case/frame
  20 - 15A surge suppressor
------------
$1860

...

I wanted to do a quick update. Since the beginning of August this hardware has mined 3.0 ETH which is currently worth (as of this moment) ~$2160. I think I have spent ~$250 on electricity to do so, so I've now broken even on my hardware investment. Also, it has definitely been fun.

Of course if you had just spent the $1,860 on ETH in August instead of mining hardware you would have about $7,000 worth right now.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #640 on: December 21, 2017, 08:00:53 PM »
Congratulations, PDXTabs!

I checked today and a recent run up in the price of zcash combined with a decline in difficulty (I think a lot of GPU rigs jumped over to ethereum), means the earning on my own mining rig has jumped back $300/month, numbers I haven't seen since last June. (For most of the fall it was bringing in closer to $100/month).

Considering the effect of price appreciation I broke even a while ago, but I'm hopeful now I may yet manage to do so on mining profits alone.

PDXTabs

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #641 on: December 21, 2017, 08:03:03 PM »
Of course if you had just spent the $1,860 on ETH in August instead of mining hardware you would have about $7,000 worth right now.

Where's the fun in that ;) ?

EDIT - just to add a twist to this: I purchased the hardware on a 0% CC (I have the money to pay it off before they start charging me interest) that I opened to possibly sell future tradelines on.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 08:05:36 PM by PDXTabs »

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #642 on: December 23, 2017, 05:57:03 PM »
After the crypto crash, is it time to buy again?

Syonyk

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #643 on: December 23, 2017, 08:48:34 PM »
After the crypto crash, is it time to buy again?

Boingy, boingy, boingy!  Bounce, bounce, bounce!

Just because a dead cat bounces a few times doesn't make it a live cat.

Realistically, I expect there is a ton of "BTFD" ("Buy The Fine Dip") going on which means that prices will bounce along, for a while.  How long?  No clue.

This is acting entirely like the fizzy, fluffy, foamy froth at the top of a bubble.  I think buying now would be quite stupid.  IMO.

... so, uh, watch as it hits $50k or something before heading down.

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #644 on: December 25, 2017, 07:05:14 PM »
I guess that's a no

Syonyk

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #645 on: December 25, 2017, 08:55:13 PM »
I guess that's a no

That would be a firm "Oh hell no."

Bitcoin, currently, is acting a ton like "late stage bubble."  There may be some growth left in it, there may not, but investing into this stage of the bubble is comically unwise, historically.

powskier

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #646 on: December 26, 2017, 12:01:39 AM »
Anyone buying XRP ?  Supposed to be the next big cc

No, it's ridiculously overpriced. Centralized. Ripple owns 50%+ of supply. Ripple doesn't even use XRP for their protocol.

It's a useless vehicle based purely on speculation, IMO.

I purchased Ripple as a hedge against all the other crypto currencies. Ripple is working with the banks rather than trying to replace them, they have agreements with Standard Charter, American Express, Japanese bank consortium and many more. I bought the majority of my stake at 0.17, and some  at 0.60.Currently up to $1. Ripple has performed very, very well for me and currently looks on track to take over some of Swift's market share.

Saying "something is overpriced" in the crypto world is really silly, unless you can back up that statement with hard math.

sisto

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #647 on: December 26, 2017, 05:49:03 PM »
I've been trying to buy some Ripple, but account verification is taking forever. I only plan to invest $1K and it I make that back I'll likely pull it out and keep some invested.

powskier

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #648 on: December 27, 2017, 12:12:16 AM »
It is 500 times faster than bitcoin and a tiny fraction of the cost in fees. It is already being used by financial institutions. Pay closer attention to decentralized cryptos and you will notice a trend of centralization through mining cartels taking place.
Like I said , I purchased Ripple as a hedge against my other crypto holdings ( centralized/decentralized), it turns out to be the one looking most likely for widespread adoption because banks are already using it for it's speed and low cost.
My understanding is that Ripple uses  verified validators . As this trusted network grows it will be more  decentralized/distributed which will be the longer term future.

Do you feel anxiety holding other crypto?

I made an initial $10k crypto purchase last summer, pulled back $13k into my savings in November ( original investment plus a little profit). My current holdings are over $20k in value all without adding a single penny. Because this is "play money" I have zero anxiety. I hold Ripple, Monero, Bitcoin cash and Ethereum. One should never feel anxious about investments.

JuicyCrab

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #649 on: December 27, 2017, 12:47:08 AM »
Been reading this thread eagerly with the craziness of the crypto market this year.

Wondering what exposure people are placing in cryptos compared to other invested assets?

For me I'm only comfortable with about 5% in cryptos, which is probably too hot for some, but would love to see what others are doing.

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