Author Topic: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion  (Read 168279 times)

sherr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
  • Age: 33
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #800 on: January 16, 2018, 06:25:51 PM »
The big correction is finally here. :)

I think cryptocurrencies are an awful investment (cough cough pure speculation) but I disagree. This is just another day in the crazy volatile world of Bitcoin. It will bounce back for now.

I think the big correction will come in the next big worldwide recession. People will realize they need to eat and pay rent, and that will be it for cryptocurrencies.

asosharp

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 61
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #801 on: January 16, 2018, 09:46:12 PM »
I think the most exciting thing about cryptocurrency is the development of blockchain technology.

Don't forget the reason we can have these advantages in technology are because of people who hate the banks and government post-sub prime mortgages. They see the banks and government as being corrupt, and that blockchain is better for whatever reason. That's how we ended up with Bitcoin in the first place.

Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, the advancement of blockchain technology is a revolution as it's not only used for the financial payments but also used for all kinds of things e.g. tracking energy (like solar power generation) to smart contracts (legal space).

The truth is, the tech whitepapers and such are beyond most people's comprehension. That's why fake coins like Dogecoin have gained recently for some ridiculous reason despite the fact it has no value. While the market has tumbled this year and I believe it will continue to tumble due to government regulation and so on, I believe if the governments intend to regulate it and there's backing for it etc that the prices of REAL cryptocurrency will go up for the long term.

According to Gartner blockchain still not in the 'plateau of productivity' in the hype cycle for emerging technology. They say that it will undergo a period of doubt called the 'trough of disillusionment' just like other tech. Other tech that is on the loop that they chart include VR, AR, machine learning, smart robots, connected homes/smart homes, autonomous vehicles, drones and more.

You can see the one for 2017 at https://blogs.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/files/2017/08/Emerging-Technology-Hype-Cycle-for-2017_Infographic_R6A.jpg

What I find interesting about the government race to cryptocurrency is that there are a number of government's already considering the use of digital currency. I also find it amusing that Russia has banned cryptocurrency but Government officials are allowed to trade it (hmm!). I think cryptocurrency will survive in the long-term, but there are definitely bad aspects to it even if you are against the system that are bad like money laundering and the ability to fund terrorism 'anonymously'.

BattlaP

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #802 on: January 17, 2018, 01:06:07 AM »
Other tech that is on the loop that they chart include VR, AR, machine learning, smart robots, connected homes/smart homes, autonomous vehicles, drones and more.

You can see the one for 2017 at https://blogs.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/files/2017/08/Emerging-Technology-Hype-Cycle-for-2017_Infographic_R6A.jpg

Machine learning underpins most applications of ‘big data’. Smart robots are already making products we use and replacing factory workers. Google Home and other smart home products are being bought and used and generating profits. Autonomous vehicle technology is already integrated into many vehicles and constant incremental improvements are being made towards the end goal of totally autonomous vehicles. Drones are everywhere, for both consumer fun or business applications. I strap on a VR headset almost every day, and everyone who has ever used an Instagram filter has applied AR technology.

Honestly, what has blockchain brought us except quantum leaps in scam technologies and a ever-expanding roster of overhyped silly digicoins? Really think about this; where is it actually being applied for competitive advantage that would make it an undeniable, essential, desirable tool for either consumers or business applications? It’s had 10 years. Where is this happening?

There is just no comparison, it doesn’t belong on this chart alongside actual emerging technologies. If it belongs anywhere, it’s in the depths of Computer Science textbooks alongside other data structures and algorithms, detailing its very specific use cases.

Notch

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 70
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Australia
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #803 on: January 17, 2018, 02:27:54 AM »
Other tech that is on the loop that they chart include VR, AR, machine learning, smart robots, connected homes/smart homes, autonomous vehicles, drones and more.

You can see the one for 2017 at https://blogs.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/files/2017/08/Emerging-Technology-Hype-Cycle-for-2017_Infographic_R6A.jpg

Machine learning underpins most applications of ‘big data’. Smart robots are already making products we use and replacing factory workers. Google Home and other smart home products are being bought and used and generating profits. Autonomous vehicle technology is already integrated into many vehicles and constant incremental improvements are being made towards the end goal of totally autonomous vehicles. Drones are everywhere, for both consumer fun or business applications. I strap on a VR headset almost every day, and everyone who has ever used an Instagram filter has applied AR technology.

Honestly, what has blockchain brought us except quantum leaps in scam technologies and a ever-expanding roster of overhyped silly digicoins? Really think about this; where is it actually being applied for competitive advantage that would make it an undeniable, essential, desirable tool for either consumers or business applications? It’s had 10 years. Where is this happening?

There is just no comparison, it doesn’t belong on this chart alongside actual emerging technologies. If it belongs anywhere, it’s in the depths of Computer Science textbooks alongside other data structures and algorithms, detailing its very specific use cases.

Illegal online transactions.  Well, at least it was, until 2017.

jorjor

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 351
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #804 on: January 17, 2018, 09:58:38 AM »
Honestly, what has blockchain brought us except quantum leaps in scam technologies and a ever-expanding roster of overhyped silly digicoins? Really think about this; where is it actually being applied for competitive advantage that would make it an undeniable, essential, desirable tool for either consumers or business applications? It’s had 10 years. Where is this happening?

There are some out there.

The UAE is implementing it into their government processes and expect to save a bunch on document processing. They're also implementing it in their healthcare system to improve payments and medical record storage.

I know of another that is focused on logistics and supply chain solutions. Product tracking, cross-border shipments, anti-counterfeiting in countries where that is a major problem. They actually have a fair number of companies who they are working with. There are a couple in that space.

Another applying it to insurance to improve claims, payments, coverage determinations via smart contracts. They are already working with a fair number of hospitals and insurers in their market

Another looking to provide a solution that can easily connect and convert between different fiat currencies as a behind-the-scenes payment processor. They're already processing payments for places like fast food restaurants and airlines and are flipping that over to a blockchain solution once finished.

Another using it to improve the trade of renewable energy, particularly in microgrids, where logistics were difficult before.

All but the UAE one have (or will have once live) a native cryptocurrency, but I think "currency" is misnomer in those cases (actually, a lot of cases in crypto). No one is going to the store to pay with those currencies. That isn't the intent. The currency is used within the system to pay to use the network and/or to provide incentive to investors/individuals to take part in the decentralized network. It isn't really a stock because you don't own a part the company, but you do retain rights to some portion of network use fees for having stake in the network. Investing in any of those are still highly speculative. You are speculating that those solutions will be adopted with enough scale that you will be paid off with a stream of passive income, not all that dissimilar to dividends.

As far as the "10 years" thing, most of the smart contract work which those are building off of didn't really start development until a few years ago. The development of the particular solutions above didn't start until the last year or two. They are starting to roll out now. It doesn't happen overnight.

I agree that a currency for currency's stake (like bitcoin) doesn't provide any value. Many of the critiques of crypto as a whole are really critiques of bitcoin and its clones. There is at least some evidence that the instances I listed above do have value, at least there are real-life companies who feel that way and have partnerships to be users of the technology.

We'll see though. It might work. It might fail. I'm interested in keeping up with it.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 10:02:19 AM by jorjor »

BattlaP

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #805 on: January 17, 2018, 11:06:28 AM »
I'm going to ask that you provide links to back up any/all of them.

Most/all 'applications' of blockchain, when you actually pick through them and apply a bit of critical thinking, turn out to be not blockchain (eg just databases, nothing new), low-level trials that don't go anywhere, or literally just empty hype, a press release or something that gets massively overblown by pro-crypto news sources.

Smart contracts (immutable programs run off the blockchain) are a terrible idea right from the start as has been demonstrate by several multiple-hundred-million-dollar failures. Programs will have bugs and need to be kept updated and modified and human decision making should always be kept in the loop.

These vague rumors, low-level trial programs and mislabeled backend data structures are not blockchain 'just starting to roll out now'. They are either deliberately misrepresented by advocates with an agenda or simply interpreted as 'good news' through motivated reasoning.

The best demonstration of what blockchain can achieve so far is CryptoKitties.

Literally beanie babies on the blockchain. Great stuff! (oh and even its minor popularity brought the ethereum network to its knees, aptly demonstrating blockchains' inability to scale. Freeing a database of the need for 'trust' is incredibly expensive and most of the time unnecessary.)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 11:11:12 AM by BattlaP »

shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #806 on: January 18, 2018, 09:56:23 AM »
Currently 90% omg, 10% eth.

Will re-evaluate as needed.

BrandNewPapa

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #807 on: January 18, 2018, 10:30:04 AM »
Getting this thread back on track....

I recently took some profits from my ETH (~$500USD) and sent it to Kraken.

I bought the following:
EOS
ICN
MLN
REP
XLM
ZEC
XRP

I tried to limit it to coins/tokens that seem to have some real purpose and support from outside companies.

I'm also still holding LTC, BTC, BCH, and ETH.

Undecided how long I will hold. Initial thoughts were to try to make a quick 2X, but after the down turn this week, I'm thinking I might HODL.

thenextguy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #808 on: January 18, 2018, 10:35:22 AM »
The best demonstration of what blockchain can achieve so far is CryptoKitties.

Really? What about ICOs? Granted, it has enabled some shady activities, but that doesn't diminish the underlying tech. The ability for small companies to raise capital outside of traditional channels is surely more significant than CryptoKitties. Don't you think?

shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #809 on: January 18, 2018, 11:42:32 AM »
The ability for small companies to raise capital outside of traditional channels is surely more significant than CryptoKitties.

One of the reasons for a code of law is facilitating coordination and reducing interactive friction. This is a form of social governance.

What's significant in crypto is we're starting to see algorithmic governance in digital space; decentralized consensus through protocol, reducing corruptive elements. How this will evolve will become readily apparent in time.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #810 on: January 18, 2018, 12:07:27 PM »
One of the reasons for a code of law is facilitating coordination and reducing interactive friction. This is a form of social governance.

I don't see the friction reducing benefit of ICOs over kickstarter or gofundme.  I agree the internet has made it easier to raise money through non-traditional means, I just think cryptocurrencies are the least innovative way to do that.

Quote
What's significant in crypto is we're starting to see algorithmic governance in digital space; decentralized consensus through protocol, reducing corruptive elements.

Lol, if you think cryptos are reducing corruption then you haven't been paying attention.  *cough(tether). 

Nice job with the content-free word salad though, I always appreciate sentences that make my brain spin up.

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #811 on: January 18, 2018, 12:17:04 PM »
The ability for small companies to raise capital outside of traditional channels is surely more significant than CryptoKitties.

One of the reasons for a code of law is facilitating coordination and reducing interactive friction. This is a form of social governance.

What's significant in crypto is we're starting to see algorithmic governance in digital space; decentralized consensus through protocol, reducing corruptive elements. How this will evolve will become readily apparent in time.

Crypto price slides have been arrested by an influx of four hundred million dollars in unverified funds flooding into Bitfinex from a company owned by the same people (something they denied until it was confirmed in the Paradise Papers) which has never provided any evidence that it actually holds the hundreds upon hundreds of millions it claims backs Tether. And this is what reduced corruption looks like?

WoodStache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #812 on: January 18, 2018, 12:25:45 PM »
The big correction is finally here. :)

I think posts like this are kind of gross. I don't know your posting history so excuse me if I'm taking yours specifically wrong, but I see this all over. On here, twitter and on other sites. So take "you" here as a royal you, if necessary.

The thing is, you can think crypto is a bad investment and not get a smile when the prices go down. Sadly, and stupidly, people have huge chunks of their lives tied up into this. There are people I've seen on reddit the past few days that have sunk their retirement into cryptos. Hope for change, hope for education but there are tons of people that are seemingly gleeful at the proposition of this coming crashing down.

In a way, it's similar to the FOMO attitude that recent "investors" have exhibited, just meaner spirited. "I didn't get mine so I hope you don't either." Or some sort of need to feel smarter than the rest and above it all.

You see this with some in the FI crowd that are "excited" for the next big buy opportunity in the stock market. Peoples lives, careers and retirements end over stuff like this. Someone might believe it's necessary, and in many cases these things open up a buying opportunity, but that's different than the reveling that you see around this board and others.

/soapbox.

Finallyunderstand

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #813 on: January 18, 2018, 02:23:17 PM »
I posted this in another crypto thread when Tether came up.  This article talks about last bitcoin price bubble 5 years ago. If Tether really is propping up the market you could replace "person" with "company" and we have the same thing going on.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/15/researchers-finds-that-one-person-likely-drove-bitcoin-from-150-to-1000/


shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #814 on: January 18, 2018, 02:24:52 PM »

Crypto price slides have been arrested by an influx of four hundred million dollars in unverified funds flooding into Bitfinex from a company owned by the same people (something they denied until it was confirmed in the Paradise Papers) which has never provided any evidence that it actually holds the hundreds upon hundreds of millions it claims backs Tether. And this is what reduced corruption looks like?

I'm uncertain about tether, being that it is centrally issued, especially by a non-authoritative entity. I had warning posts about it a couple of months ago.

Quote
If it turns out tethers is being fraudulently printed, there is a high chance it will severely impact the cryptoworld. You should do what you think is best based on what you believe.   

Quote
There is huge risk in the space right now. Especially for bitcoin, due to potentially fraudulent tether. Proceed with caution.

As for 'reduced corruption', I refer to the protocol's governance. In a decentralized protocol, if one stranger sends a digital unit of accounting over to another stranger, the chance of any corruption with that transaction is infinitesimally low. The protocol reduces or mitigates corruption regarding its transactive (algorithmic) governance. For example, there will only be one hundred units. An entity owns one unit and sends it to another entity. Adhering to protocol rule and consensus, we can expect there will never be more or less than one hundred units. Ownership of a unit, within the protocol, cannot be tampered with by another. In a non-decentralized system, the intermediary is always a huge risk for corruption and displays less transparency. 

Finallyunderstand

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #815 on: January 18, 2018, 02:47:46 PM »
I posted this in another crypto thread when Tether came up.  This article talks about last bitcoin price bubble 5 years ago. If Tether really is propping up the market you could replace "person" with "company" and we have the same thing going on.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/15/researchers-finds-that-one-person-likely-drove-bitcoin-from-150-to-1000/

additional reading material about Tether for those so inclined.  I'm well aware you can't take everything as gospel on the internet so draw your own conclusions.  It was this sort of information that caused me to sell almost every holding I had.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7ih0hd/guess_who_controls_over_half_a_billion_tethers/

BattlaP

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 166
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #816 on: January 18, 2018, 05:24:24 PM »

additional reading material about Tether for those so inclined.  I'm well aware you can't take everything as gospel on the internet so draw your own conclusions.  It was this sort of information that caused me to sell almost every holding I had.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7ih0hd/guess_who_controls_over_half_a_billion_tethers/

The only rational response to such massive and obvious systemic fraud.

There should be no ‘getting this thread back on track’ until it’s explained or exposed. To continue discussing crypto prices and portfolio holdings takes a cognitive dissonance which absolutely staggers me. Investing on a prayer.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #817 on: January 18, 2018, 05:51:12 PM »
The only rational response to such massive and obvious systemic fraud.

There should be no ‘getting this thread back on track’ until it’s explained or exposed. To continue discussing crypto prices and portfolio holdings takes a cognitive dissonance which absolutely staggers me. Investing on a prayer.

I for one am shocked, SHOCKED, to discover than an entirely new and unregulated asset class suddenly worth hundreds of billions of dollars for no apparent reason after being invented on the internet could possibly be anything except wholly legitimate and trustworthy.

phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #818 on: January 18, 2018, 06:14:46 PM »
it is ironic that bitcoin, whose genesis block decries bailouts:

Quote
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

is (most likely) being artificially supported by a virtual currency being printed out of thin air.

in my opinion it's only a matter of time before either this artificial support crumbles and kills BTC, or the high congestion/fees of BTC kills it.  i think the latter may kill BTC first.  if that happens i would not be surprised to see miners abandon BTC and move to BCH, giving it traction, and i suspect the people that are desperately inflating the BTC price are exactly the same people who sold all their BCH holdings.

Ben Hogan

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Location: Texas
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #819 on: January 19, 2018, 08:13:44 AM »
Really interesting, I have always wondered how Tether and Exchange's own currency works. But this does not look good at all.

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #820 on: January 19, 2018, 10:39:29 AM »

Crypto price slides have been arrested by an influx of four hundred million dollars in unverified funds flooding into Bitfinex from a company owned by the same people (something they denied until it was confirmed in the Paradise Papers) which has never provided any evidence that it actually holds the hundreds upon hundreds of millions it claims backs Tether. And this is what reduced corruption looks like?

I'm uncertain about tether, being that it is centrally issued, especially by a non-authoritative entity. I had warning posts about it a couple of months ago.

Quote
If it turns out tethers is being fraudulently printed, there is a high chance it will severely impact the cryptoworld. You should do what you think is best based on what you believe.   

Quote
There is huge risk in the space right now. Especially for bitcoin, due to potentially fraudulent tether. Proceed with caution.

As for 'reduced corruption', I refer to the protocol's governance. In a decentralized protocol, if one stranger sends a digital unit of accounting over to another stranger, the chance of any corruption with that transaction is infinitesimally low. The protocol reduces or mitigates corruption regarding its transactive (algorithmic) governance. For example, there will only be one hundred units. An entity owns one unit and sends it to another entity. Adhering to protocol rule and consensus, we can expect there will never be more or less than one hundred units. Ownership of a unit, within the protocol, cannot be tampered with by another. In a non-decentralized system, the intermediary is always a huge risk for corruption and displays less transparency.

This is a completely different definition of corruption to that used by more or less everyone else in the world outside cryptocurrency circles. Corruption in payment processing has pretty much nothing to do with the redirection of funds mid-flow to the wrong place for nefarious gain. It has everything to do with a swathe of other factors completely unrelated to the payment processing technology, none of which blockchain does anything to prevent.

shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #821 on: January 19, 2018, 12:24:41 PM »

This is a completely different definition of corruption to that used by more or less everyone else in the world outside cryptocurrency circles.

This being a crypto thread, with discussions about protocol and algorithmic uses, data security, integrity, and corruption is both a technical and social aspect. How do you define corruption that everyone else defines and why is this not related to crypto?

Quote from: runbikerun
Corruption in payment processing has pretty much nothing to do with the redirection of funds mid-flow to the wrong place for nefarious gain. It has everything to do with a swathe of other factors completely unrelated to the payment processing technology, none of which blockchain does anything to prevent.

Can you elaborate on this statement?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 12:31:45 PM by shadow »

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #822 on: January 19, 2018, 03:29:47 PM »
There's no point in discussing this. Either we agree on what we're talking about when we discuss corruption in financial transactions, in which case cryptocurrency does the quadratic root of fuck all to address it, or we don't agree on what corruption actually means in that context, in which case we might as well be speaking different languages.

There is no endemic problem relating to corruption in existing international payment systems that is solved by cryptocurrency.

shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #823 on: January 19, 2018, 03:57:13 PM »
There's no point in discussing this.

That's fine. I'll leave it with this: to me, the term corruption is a very broad concept and wide applicability. 

My original statement basically said "blockchain can reduce corruption." You commented with a question about "reduced corruption".

I provided a description of it in blockchain governance. To expand it further, units of accounting can include various things, like land registry. There are parts of the world where people's property are taken from them due to personal interpretation of valid land deeds. In this situation, blockchain can offer nigh tamper-resistance auditable proof.

powskier

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 308
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #824 on: January 21, 2018, 06:22:29 PM »
Things in crypto space that are sketchy/corrupt/not cool :
- unregulated exchanges
 -blatant price manipulation by exchanges
 -concentration of majority of any coin with a very small group of people
-concentration of mining groups
- insider trading prohibitions of the stock market do not apply in crypto
- bots manipulating prices
-coordination of buying/selling by whales

Plenty of these items are well covered in articles by Bloomberg, NYT, WAPO, etc , I am not going to provide links someone with more time on their hands can if they wish.  Blockchain can indeed prevent corruption, improve transparency, etc, etc but the entire crypto space is full of people taking advantage of others in ways that are clearly illegal ( although likely done) in other markets. Have fun , make some money if you wish ( I am) but don't drink so much Kool aid that you end up drowning. The post government/banking libertarian utopia that many crypto enthusiasts expect is highly unlikely. Some applications of blockchain technology will likely become valuable and of great use, but to be clear the entire market itself is just about a transfer of wealth from the many to the few. Same as the rest of finances. Make sure to take gains and only gamble what you can afford to lose, or don't play.

gp_

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #825 on: January 22, 2018, 01:02:22 PM »
The big correction is finally here. :)

the low for bitcoin for the entire year, has been in january for the last 4 years.

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #826 on: January 23, 2018, 12:27:29 AM »
The big correction is finally here. :)

the low for bitcoin for the entire year, has been in january for the last 4 years.

It has not, however, been a near 50% drop in any of those years, and it's debatable whether the largest exchange had spent the previous few months furiously working to prop up the price in other years.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #827 on: January 23, 2018, 10:22:33 AM »
It's debatable whether the largest exchange had spent the previous few months furiously working to prop up the price in other years.

I think it's pretty clear that the price of bitcoin has been systematically manipulated by bad actors.  This probably shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

It's a completely unregulated market in what are essentially penny stocks, and we've all seen how that story ends.  The whole model is to promote positive media coverage to scare up new investor money with fomo on the next big thing, but there is no underlying value behind the asset.  Every part of that sentence is exactly like penny stocks.  How quickly we forget.

It's especially egregious to me that THIS community, of all places, has penny stock promoters.  The whole thrust of this forum's financial advice is that you can't pick the next big thing, but you can reliably get rich by regularly investing in boring dependable assets that represent aggregate performance.  You minimize risk by sharing it.   

The entire cryptocurrency space looks like a cynical cash grab by brazen criminals.  The exchanges are corrupt.  The product is imaginary and the revenue stream is non-existent.  Just like with booming penny stocks, all they have is a clever idea and an overhyped media presence, which they use to fleece the late comers.  It's an elaborate scam.

Bitcoin is antithetical to everything this website represents.  This is probably the wrong place to shill for it.  And yet here we are, listening to poster after poster pushing their fomo agenda with promises of instant gratification.  Get real, peeps.


thenextguy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #828 on: January 23, 2018, 03:38:45 PM »
More uses for the Ethereum network.

Canada trialing use of Ethereum blockchain to enhance transparency in govt funding

I guess someone forgot to tell the Canadian government that cryptocurrencies are scams and useless.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:43:59 PM by thenextguy »

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #829 on: January 23, 2018, 03:55:20 PM »
More uses for the Ethereum network.

Canada trialing use of Ethereum blockchain to enhance transparency in govt funding

This seems like a great example of why this craze is so overblown.  Enhancing government transparency is great, but as far as I can tell blockchain adds absolutely nothing to this process.  Canada could just publish this same information online, like they currently do.  Even if you believe that the Canadian government is forging its records of research funding for some reason, blockchain doesn't help because they can still forge the same records when they create the blockchain in the first place.  If you're worried that the Candadian government is trying to retroactively forge their science funding numbers, well this is what the internet is for!  PUBLICation means everyone gets to see it as it comes out, and we collectively keep each other honest.  We already archive all previously published data both individually (right click, save-as) and collectively (the wayback machine and its equivalents).

I'm familiar with four different databases that the US government uses to record scientific data and make it available to the public.  Making any one of them unalterable would be a complete disaster.  Science is by definition an iterative process, in which we constantly seek out mistakes and then correct them by annotating the original data. 

Some of these databases are better than others at presentation and searchability, but in zero cases do I feel like the integrity of the record is the primary weakness in a system.  They are already backed up in multiple locations.  They already have professional DBAs who manage the records and facilitate the flow of data in and out.  They are already have GUIs organized by theme, or by location, or by data type, or by project, or by date, or all all of the above.  What does blockchain possibly bring to these complicated systems with decades of history and revisions?

Blockchain may still discover a killer app, but it's not currency and it's not data management.  Keep looking, fanbois, I'm pulling for you because I like cleverness.

phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #830 on: January 23, 2018, 09:49:52 PM »
this idea is far from the low hanging fruit, but no one wants to make databases unalterable.

a cryptographic signature of any document, stored on a secure public blockchain, doesn't take up much space and can be used from then on to prove the copy of the document you're looking at hasn't been altered.  revisions would be in a separate document, also with a recorded signature.  it's a valuable idea in general, but yes perhaps not a lot of added value for government records in particular at this point.

i think micropayments might eventually be where cryptocurrencies can prove useful, especially since you can load say $5 into an account per week and not worry too much about fluctuations in market price.  obviously, scalability issues will have to be solved:

how about micropayments for websites (say 1/10 cent per page load) instead of seeing ads?  (yes something along the idea of the brave browser or google contributor.)
how about micropayments for streamed TV show episodes instead of a monthly bill?  or for internet usage by the MB instead of a flat monthly bill? for cell phone minutes? or printing mail postage?  or maybe you could require a micropayment to receive email, to prevent a certain email address from being spammed.

there may be a couple ideas here and there that could be valuable... being bullish on cryptocurrencies i think something will pop up at some point.



« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 10:17:36 PM by phil22 »

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #831 on: January 24, 2018, 12:44:52 AM »
There's no reason why micropayments would be done via cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars or euro. Even assuming payments of below a single cent, it would be easier to collate the totals and bill to the nearest cent monthly than to go through the rigmarole of converting money into crypto and for the recipient to do the reverse.

In addition to that, it seems fairly unambiguous that subscription models are the way forward. I'm not aware of anywhere that micropayments have taken off, but subscription services are everywhere.

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #832 on: January 24, 2018, 04:20:44 AM »
The total volume of Tether produced in the last four weeks now stands at a billion dollars. The last hundred million was produced just after yesterday's fall in Bitcoin.

I'm genuinely curious at this point: how can any of the crypto bulls maintain the belief that this isn't heading straight for disaster? At this point, the current crypto market is built on the assumption that Tether is backed by US dollars. It's becoming close to impossible to sustain that belief. What happens when the realisation hits?

gp_

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #833 on: January 24, 2018, 10:32:28 AM »
It has not, however, been a near 50% drop in any of those years, and it's debatable whether the largest exchange had spent the previous few months furiously working to prop up the price in other years.

not disagreeing with that.

the way roger ver / jihan wu claimed that bcash was the "true bitcoin" coinciding with the CME launching btc futures was/is very suspect to me.

phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #834 on: January 24, 2018, 05:20:28 PM »
There's no reason why micropayments would be done via cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars or euro.

that may or may not be true in the US or Europe, but cryptocurrencies are in theory more accessible to more people in more countries.

Even assuming payments of below a single cent, it would be easier to collate the totals and bill to the nearest cent monthly than to go through the rigmarole of converting money into crypto and for the recipient to do the reverse.

if you're collating payments into a larger payment then it's not a micropayment.  the payer could cancel their account or withdraw their money or dispute a payment in the meantime, where with cryptocurrencies each micropayment would be final.  i think that's the benefit of micropayments to the payee.

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #835 on: January 25, 2018, 02:26:02 AM »
There's no reason why micropayments would be done via cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars or euro.

that may or may not be true in the US or Europe, but cryptocurrencies are in theory more accessible to more people in more countries.

Even assuming payments of below a single cent, it would be easier to collate the totals and bill to the nearest cent monthly than to go through the rigmarole of converting money into crypto and for the recipient to do the reverse.

if you're collating payments into a larger payment then it's not a micropayment.  the payer could cancel their account or withdraw their money or dispute a payment in the meantime, where with cryptocurrencies each micropayment would be final.  i think that's the benefit of micropayments to the payee.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Do I have to list every bloody currency on earth every time I compare Bitcoin to existing currencies? Do I have to amend my statement to "There's no reason why micropayments would be done by cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars, euro, sterling, kronur, kroner, koruna, forint, pesos, francs, rands, yuan, yen, dong..."

And on the subject of micropayments: it's entirely possible to build a micropayment system that's irreversible, by requiring customers to preload their accounts but allow for withdrawal of unused balances at any time. Then you simply pay the money instantly whenever a customer authorises a micropayment. Hey presto! But nobody does that, because nobody uses micropayments, because business after business after business has figured out that subscription models are superior. It's a more consistent revenue stream, the global nature of the internet allows companies to run a profit even on low subscription fees, customers paying a subscription are almost certainly less likely to stop using your service, and the act of paying for the subscription may actually drive usage (someone with a Netflix account may opt to watch more Netflix to make the most of their spending).

If you were starting an online company today, would you want to go for micropayments or a subscription model? Just about everyone in the market - from Netflix to the Wall Street Journal, from Dollar Shave Club to Spotify, from the Lancet to whatever particular flavour of online nudity you find most interesting - is using a subscription model, which is a pretty clear indicator. Even where subscription involves no actual payments - like on Youtube - you'll see reminders at the end of videos to subscribe to the channel, because the entire business model is built on subscribers. The subscription model is vastly preferable to both customers (a predictable and smooth cost for something from a consistently good source) and to sellers (a regular revenue stream with low turnover which enables far more detailed forward planning than day-to-day sales), and crypto isn't needed for subscriptions.

k-vette

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 243
    • Sierra Ebike
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #836 on: January 25, 2018, 05:25:33 PM »
Robinhood is adding Cryptocurrency trading for FREE!  I'm excited to see where this leads.  If you don't have Robinhood for stock trading, you can get a free stock if you use someone's referral link.  (Lots on the thread here:  https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/free-stock-from-robinhood/)  Spread the referrals around a bit rather than giving you mine. 

That means stock trading and crypto on the same platform with the same money.  I see that as very valuable.  I trade often throughout the day as I am able.  Starting in February I could close out some positions at the end of the day, then continue using that money on cryptocurrency trading after hours, then turn it back into SPY or somethings stable earning interest while I'm at work.  This seems like a win-win for Robinhood.

As of today you can already watch several currencies, starting in February you'll be able to buy and sell Bitcoin and Ethereum, more will be added.  It's somewhat limited to certain states so far, but the rollout will continue.  I think Coinbase is going to get killed over this.  Why would anyone pay a fee when you can avoid it altogether?

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #837 on: January 25, 2018, 06:26:36 PM »
Why would anyone pay a fee when you can avoid it altogether?

Because the price is better?  Most of the "free" trading options make their money by juicing the bid-ask spread. 

TANSTAAFL.

phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #838 on: January 25, 2018, 06:37:09 PM »
There's no reason why micropayments would be done via cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars or euro.

that may or may not be true in the US or Europe, but cryptocurrencies are in theory more accessible to more people in more countries.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Do I have to list every bloody currency on earth every time I compare Bitcoin to existing currencies? Do I have to amend my statement to "There's no reason why micropayments would be done by cryptocurrency rather than simply through dollars, euro, sterling, kronur, kroner, koruna, forint, pesos, francs, rands, yuan, yen, dong..."

oh you're right.  we have all these great fiat currencies and banks already.  i guess we'll wait around for them to introduce micropayments.  those chinese banks love experimenting.  /s

If you were starting an online company today, would you want to go for micropayments or a subscription model? Just about everyone in the market - from Netflix to the Wall Street Journal, from Dollar Shave Club to Spotify, from the Lancet to whatever particular flavour of online nudity you find most interesting - is using a subscription model, which is a pretty clear indicator.

so micropayments shouldn't be used because micropayments aren't used...?  nobody uses micropayments because it's not really an option yet, as cryptocurrencies are relatively new and the big ones have scaling problems.  i'm just saying there's potential there.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2710
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #839 on: January 25, 2018, 07:09:46 PM »
Phil, are you claiming that fiat currency is somehow holding back the micropayments concept from being widely adopted?

I mean, I agree that micropayments are a great way to solve some annoying problems. People have been talking about them for at least 20 years, AFAIK. But I don't see why I couldn't set up such a system just using existing currency(s). Which makes me think the roadblocks have nothing to do with currency, hence not much reason to think cryptos would somehow make micropayments a big thing.

-W

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #840 on: January 26, 2018, 01:11:50 AM »

so micropayments shouldn't be used because micropayments aren't used...?  nobody uses micropayments because it's not really an option yet, as cryptocurrencies are relatively new and the big ones have scaling problems.  i'm just saying there's potential there.

At the risk of sounding dismissive: did you read the damn post at all?

Did you get to the chunk pointing out that subscription models are a superior option for both buyers and sellers?

Or did you just decide after reading the very first line what your response was going to be and ignore the rest? I mean, you quoted the first line of my last paragraph, completely disregarded the rest of it, and then delivered a kicking to an argument I hadn't actually made. Subscription models are everywhere because they're a far better option for businesses and for customers.

I don't think I can adequately explain how infuriating it is to have someone selectively misquote a subset of what I've written and then argue against something I've never said, so I'm just going to reproduce what I actually wrote and what you wrote in response:

"And on the subject of micropayments: it's entirely possible to build a micropayment system that's irreversible, by requiring customers to preload their accounts but allow for withdrawal of unused balances at any time. Then you simply pay the money instantly whenever a customer authorises a micropayment. Hey presto! But nobody does that, because nobody uses micropayments, because business after business after business has figured out that subscription models are superior. It's a more consistent revenue stream, the global nature of the internet allows companies to run a profit even on low subscription fees, customers paying a subscription are almost certainly less likely to stop using your service, and the act of paying for the subscription may actually drive usage (someone with a Netflix account may opt to watch more Netflix to make the most of their spending).

If you were starting an online company today, would you want to go for micropayments or a subscription model? Just about everyone in the market - from Netflix to the Wall Street Journal, from Dollar Shave Club to Spotify, from the Lancet to whatever particular flavour of online nudity you find most interesting - is using a subscription model, which is a pretty clear indicator. Even where subscription involves no actual payments - like on Youtube - you'll see reminders at the end of videos to subscribe to the channel, because the entire business model is built on subscribers. The subscription model is vastly preferable to both customers (a predictable and smooth cost for something from a consistently good source) and to sellers (a regular revenue stream with low turnover which enables far more detailed forward planning than day-to-day sales), and crypto isn't needed for subscriptions."

"so micropayments shouldn't be used because micropayments aren't used...? nobody uses micropayments because it's not really an option yet, as cryptocurrencies are relatively new and the big ones have scaling problems."

...

Seriously: what is the point of engaging, if this is what comes back as a response? I wrote a clear and short explanation of why I believe companies have gone with a subscription model, added in an explanation of why I think it actually benefits consumers as well, and brought in supporting evidence that the subscription model is the best one available for businesses even when the subscription is completely free. In return, I get...strawman arguments and selective and misleading quotations, and no effort to discuss what I actually said. It's incredibly frustrating.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 02:43:25 AM by runbikerun »

shadow

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #841 on: January 26, 2018, 10:13:23 AM »
Coincheck, a japanese crypto exchange, got hacked with a lost of several hundred million dollars.

https://news.bitcoin.com/coincheck-halts-operations-amidst-hacking-rumors-after-723-million-withdrawn/

pennyrobbins

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #842 on: January 26, 2018, 10:29:30 AM »
Hoping that transactions and accessibility get easier, now that Robinhood is entering the game.  Should be seeing a general lift among crypto when the barriers to entry are reduced like this.

phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #843 on: January 26, 2018, 05:24:33 PM »
"so micropayments shouldn't be used because micropayments aren't used...? nobody uses micropayments because it's not really an option yet, as cryptocurrencies are relatively new and the big ones have scaling problems."

...

Seriously: what is the point of engaging, if this is what comes back as a response? I wrote a clear and short explanation of why I believe companies have gone with a subscription model, added in an explanation of why I think it actually benefits consumers as well, and brought in supporting evidence that the subscription model is the best one available for businesses even when the subscription is completely free. In return, I get...strawman arguments and selective and misleading quotations, and no effort to discuss what I actually said. It's incredibly frustrating.

you wrote that companies today use subscription models, and gave a few reasons.  but you didn't compare subscriptions to micropayments.  what you should have said is "companies like subscription models, not micropayments, because paying subscribers often don't even use the service.  this boosts profit margins for companies."  you said almost everything but that.

from a customer's point of view, subscription models suck because if you don't use the product, you still pay.  that's why consumers would want microservices.


phil22

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
  • "This quote is very memorable." -Randall Munroe
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #844 on: January 26, 2018, 05:35:53 PM »
At the risk of sounding dismissive: did you read the damn post at all?
...
Seriously: what is the point of engaging, if this is what comes back as a response?
...
I get...strawman arguments and selective and misleading quotations, and no effort to discuss what I actually said. It's incredibly frustrating.

the frustrating dismissive response here was me mentioning how cryptocurrencies could potentially be used for micropayments, and your response is essentially "nobody should use micropayments".

i should have just ignored your post.  sorry for responding.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2710
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #845 on: January 26, 2018, 07:22:35 PM »
the frustrating dismissive response here was me mentioning how cryptocurrencies could potentially be used for micropayments, and your response is essentially "nobody should use micropayments".

i should have just ignored your post.  sorry for responding.

I have to say, Phil, he's (she's?) right - you really did seem to ignore the context of the post. You're backing off of that now with some new idea about how subscriptions *aren't* ideal for consumers which is interesting - but that wasn't what you said originally. You quoted without context and you're coming off as bit of a loon. Chill out.

Also, you never addressed my question about why cryptos are so much better for micropayments. I see no reason you couldn't do micropayments with any currency you want. What makes cryptos so much better for this?

-W

runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #846 on: January 27, 2018, 01:35:27 AM »
"so micropayments shouldn't be used because micropayments aren't used...? nobody uses micropayments because it's not really an option yet, as cryptocurrencies are relatively new and the big ones have scaling problems."

...

Seriously: what is the point of engaging, if this is what comes back as a response? I wrote a clear and short explanation of why I believe companies have gone with a subscription model, added in an explanation of why I think it actually benefits consumers as well, and brought in supporting evidence that the subscription model is the best one available for businesses even when the subscription is completely free. In return, I get...strawman arguments and selective and misleading quotations, and no effort to discuss what I actually said. It's incredibly frustrating.

you wrote that companies today use subscription models, and gave a few reasons.  but you didn't compare subscriptions to micropayments.  what you should have said is "companies like subscription models, not micropayments, because paying subscribers often don't even use the service.  this boosts profit margins for companies."  you said almost everything but that.

from a customer's point of view, subscription models suck because if you don't use the product, you still pay.  that's why consumers would want microservices.

So what you really wanted was for me to make your argument for you. Come on, this is ridiculous. You still haven't read what I wrote, because every point I made about the advantages of subscription models was an advantage specifically compared to micropayments. For customers, it means their costs are far more predictable and they can subscribe to a provider of a consistently good product, meaning less time and money spent trying to find something good. For businesses, the principal benefit is that the subscription model means far more predictable revenue streams and better options for forward planning. You can fume all you want about businesses growing fat on subscriptions from people who don't use the product, but that's not a part of any sane business plan I've ever seen. It's an incidental effect, not the plan.

And my response wasn't "nobody should use micropayments". It was that nobody does, because the subscription model is a better option.

Tonyahu

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Age: 27
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Ambassador
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #847 on: January 27, 2018, 11:12:18 AM »
It's debatable whether the largest exchange had spent the previous few months furiously working to prop up the price in other years.

I think it's pretty clear that the price of bitcoin has been systematically manipulated by bad actors.  This probably shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

It's a completely unregulated market in what are essentially penny stocks, and we've all seen how that story ends.  The whole model is to promote positive media coverage to scare up new investor money with fomo on the next big thing, but there is no underlying value behind the asset.  Every part of that sentence is exactly like penny stocks.  How quickly we forget.

It's especially egregious to me that THIS community, of all places, has penny stock promoters.  The whole thrust of this forum's financial advice is that you can't pick the next big thing, but you can reliably get rich by regularly investing in boring dependable assets that represent aggregate performance.  You minimize risk by sharing it.   

The entire cryptocurrency space looks like a cynical cash grab by brazen criminals.  The exchanges are corrupt.  The product is imaginary and the revenue stream is non-existent.  Just like with booming penny stocks, all they have is a clever idea and an overhyped media presence, which they use to fleece the late comers.  It's an elaborate scam.

Bitcoin is antithetical to everything this website represents.  This is probably the wrong place to shill for it.  And yet here we are, listening to poster after poster pushing their fomo agenda with promises of instant gratification.  Get real, peeps.

1. Please re-read the opening post of this thread.
2. Cease posting in here.

Thank you.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #848 on: January 27, 2018, 11:21:35 AM »
1. Please re-read the opening post of this thread.
2. Cease posting in here.

Oh I'm so sorry.  Did I not quietly acquiesce to your ridiculous demands?

Here's a tip.  If you start a thread asking people to talk about how great slavery is, you're probably going to find a few posts you don't agree with there, too. 

This is a forum about financial advice.  Starting a thread to give people bad financial advice is unlikely to go unchallenged.  I think I will not sit quietly, despite your good manners.  Which really are lovely, btw, thanks for that.


runbikerun

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 244
Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #849 on: January 27, 2018, 11:27:18 AM »
You want this thread to stick purely to discussing holdings and avoid any critical commentary of cryptocurrencies as a whole?

That particular horse has long since bolted, written a white paper, set up its own cryptocurrency, strategically hyped HorseCoin on social media, and sold half its holdings just before HorseCoin's value collapsed.

Not to mention that there's something deeply unpleasant about seeing demands that people stop posting negative stuff when there still isn't a cogent explanation for how someone bought a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin by first buying it in Tether, or why Tether can't provide any evidence that this billion dollars exists. This isn't even a discussion of whether cryptocurrency is in a bubble anymore: it's a question of whether its price is being inflated by criminal behaviour, and there's credible circumstantial evidence that it is.