Author Topic: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion  (Read 181173 times)

gp_

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #700 on: December 31, 2017, 12:27:57 PM »
The claim that they hold 1/5 is disingenuous. If you want to be particular about semantics: they issued out less than 40% and control more than 60%. That they control it means it is still under their ownership. No matter how they plan to distribute it, at their whim, that's a huge percentage they retain control over.

Multiple sources indicate the percentage held/controlled by ripple founders:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/26/bitcoin-rival-ripple-is-sitting-on-many-billions-of-dollars-of-xrp.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/69emtr/question_what_of_all_xrp_are_now_being_held_by/
https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ripple/#charts
https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@boxmining/dear-ripple-investors-do-you-even-know-what-ripple-is

There's nothing stopping people from joining or creating pools in btc and btc isn't premined. This is not an equivalent comparison with ripple's trust validator and premined. Ripple is not permissionless and it's concept of decentralization doesn't hold in crypto.

why is it disingenuous? the founders retain 1/5 supply for themselves, and the remaining amount is in an escrow account, which again, happened to create market trust. people can mathematically verify the max supply which can enter the market. ripple is by far one of the most transparent projects within this space. the majority of mainstream media outlets continue to report inaccurately, and anyone can post their opinion or "false facts" on reddit and steemit...

yes, anyone can join or create a pool, so what? that doesn't change the fact that the top 3 pools control 51%+ of the hash... how is that decentralized, or is a concept which holds true in crypto? ripple is also open-sourced and anyone can run a validator...

lifeanon269

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #701 on: December 31, 2017, 03:25:17 PM »
https://medium.com/@slinafirinne/on-december-29th-lots-of-coins-went-missing-on-the-xrp-ripple-network-a1655e8d636d

When you can send a transaction over the Ripple network and have it essentially disappear because one of the Ripple servers (s2.ripple.com) was down, then that's a pretty good sign that there are some centralization problems on the network. This is not an outlier experience.

sol

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #702 on: December 31, 2017, 03:40:48 PM »
Is there really no way to convert XRP directly to USD with an organization that will actually pay out USD (you know, the most important part of a currency conversion)?

I think you must not be a true believer.  I thought the whole point of internet currencies was that they were supposed to make holding USD irrelevant? 

The coming crypto crash will separate out the chaff.  People who are only invested to make a quick buck will bail when it becomes clear that these things are not, themselves, real money in the same way that pounds or pesos are real money.  The folks who have more fully internalized the hype will ride it all the way down to zero, because their core belief is that cryptos are more real than real money, even if you can't use them to buy bread.

CoffeeR

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #703 on: December 31, 2017, 06:51:36 PM »
I think you must not be a true believer.  I thought the whole point of internet currencies was that they were supposed to make holding USD irrelevant? 
No, you misunderstand. Let me clarify this for you: the whole point of crypto currencies is to sell your tulips to some one else at a higher price then what you paid for them.

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #704 on: December 31, 2017, 08:49:37 PM »
Is there really no way to convert XRP directly to USD with an organization that will actually pay out USD (you know, the most important part of a currency conversion)?

I think you must not be a true believer.

Guilty as charged. :-)

I think cryptocurrencies are a neat idea. It was fun to set my computer mining for a few weeks back in the day to obtain some, just as a practical learning exercise to figure out how it all worked. I stopped because the mining was slowing down my computer too much for the $1-2 per day I was getting out of it. Should have kept going...

In 2013 I spent 0.12 BTC on a Humble Bundle of e-books, because it seemed appropriate to trade intangible computer money for intangible computer reading material. Those coins are worth more than $1,000 now. I don't feel quite as dumb in hindsight as the guy who spent 10,000 BTC on a pizza, but still...

I had mostly forgotten about the whole thing until these past few months when the prices went crazy. I was happy enough to hold on to a few random cryptocurrencies when my wallets were worth tens or even hundreds of dollars. It was a fraction of a percentage of my net worth and converting to more widely accepted forms of money seemed like a big hassle (still does, apparently). Now that we're talking about thousands of dollars it's a different story.

I still think cryptocurrencies are a neat idea. I just don't think that any particular implementation of that idea is fleshed out well enough that the tokens on its blockchain should be worth billions of dollars. Time to bring my holdings back down to three digits or less.

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #705 on: January 01, 2018, 04:07:11 PM »
Forbes recommends Bitstamp, Kraken, and Gatehub to purchase Ripple. Anyone have a preference for any of the 3?

http://fortune.com/2017/12/27/ripple-buy-how-to-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/



Recommendations on the best way to convert XRP to USD would also be appreciated. I got my XRPs for free and have never sold any.

Kraken verification will take a good week for the couple levels you need to sell your ripple. I used them when Coinbase finally gave out their BCH and managed to avoid the shnowzer show at Coinbase by immediately transferring them to Kraken and selling them off.  So maybe not super fast but it works.

Bateaux

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #706 on: January 01, 2018, 07:19:25 PM »
I bought some Litecoin a while back.  Not a huge purchase, just some play money.   The big run up came and peaked.  I sold while still very nicely ahead.  I made enough to buy me a nice touring bicycle when I'm ready for one.  I think dilution by some many so called alt coins will continue and governments are starting to regulate and tax the individual transactions.   I may get back in if there is a crash, too much speculation for me right now.

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #707 on: January 01, 2018, 09:10:33 PM »
Forbes recommends Bitstamp, Kraken, and Gatehub to purchase Ripple. Anyone have a preference for any of the 3?

http://fortune.com/2017/12/27/ripple-buy-how-to-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/



Recommendations on the best way to convert XRP to USD would also be appreciated. I got my XRPs for free and have never sold any.

Kraken verification will take a good week for the couple levels you need to sell your ripple. I used them when Coinbase finally gave out their BCH and managed to avoid the shnowzer show at Coinbase by immediately transferring them to Kraken and selling them off.  So maybe not super fast but it works.

How do you explain what @powskier said about Kraken's USD withdrawals not working? That seems like a major red flag to me, if them not giving you your money is something that they can do for no apparent reason.

shadow

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #708 on: January 01, 2018, 09:15:14 PM »
why is it disingenuous? the founders retain 1/5 supply for themselves, and the remaining amount is in an escrow account, which again, happened to create market trust. people can mathematically verify the max supply which can enter the market. ripple is by far one of the most transparent projects within this space. the majority of mainstream media outlets continue to report inaccurately, and anyone can post their opinion or "false facts" on reddit and steemit...

yes, anyone can join or create a pool, so what? that doesn't change the fact that the top 3 pools control 51%+ of the hash... how is that decentralized, or is a concept which holds true in crypto? ripple is also open-sourced and anyone can run a validator...

It is a fact that ripple uses a system of "trusted validators" (node gateways). These node gateways can freeze or reverse transactions:

https://ripple.com/build/freeze/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ripple-directs-bitstamp-to-freeze-funds-of-former-co-founder-jed-mccaleb

This is a permissioned network. Bitcoin is a permissionless network. Concentrated mining farms does not mean centralization; those farms can go down and bitcoin would still function. In ripple, a trusted validator goes down, and transactions sent to them don't get processed until they are back up. I'm not a fan of bitcoin or ripple, but ripple is a permissioned network.

Apple_Tango

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #709 on: January 01, 2018, 10:25:44 PM »
https://youtu.be/TTsI2F5c9VI

Kerry always has interesting thoughts, and today’s are about the blockchain and how it might negatively impact our futures. It’s a long and winding video where she goes through her thoughts about how humans seek to avoid pain and increase pleasure by decreasing the amount of work we do, but this behavior to avoid reality makes life increasingly complex.. And with blockchain, the hyper democratizing, de-centralized aspect will feel like a pain reducing practice  but it will actually decrease our free will over time and make life more complex. Just wanted to share the video with y’all. It’s heavy on psychology, not so heavy on the nuts and bolts of the tech.

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #710 on: January 02, 2018, 09:08:13 AM »
Forbes recommends Bitstamp, Kraken, and Gatehub to purchase Ripple. Anyone have a preference for any of the 3?

http://fortune.com/2017/12/27/ripple-buy-how-to-cryptocurrency-bitcoin/



Recommendations on the best way to convert XRP to USD would also be appreciated. I got my XRPs for free and have never sold any.

Kraken verification will take a good week for the couple levels you need to sell your ripple. I used them when Coinbase finally gave out their BCH and managed to avoid the shnowzer show at Coinbase by immediately transferring them to Kraken and selling them off.  So maybe not super fast but it works.

How do you explain what @powskier said about Kraken's USD withdrawals not working? That seems like a major red flag to me, if them not giving you your money is something that they can do for no apparent reason.

Possibly no  good explanation, but its the internet so I will try anyways! :)  Make sure you are in a state that Kraken is allowed to send money too and Tier 4. Tier 4 is about the same info you would have to provide a real brokerage firm, ie, you wanna move real money in the USA you gotta pay your taxes. Sorry ladies, but remember that's how they got Capone.

All of these places are still wild west... half the time I log into kraken it crashes or I guess really their servers are overloaded from too much traffic. So it took a few attempts and everything eventually worked. The process isn't ready for Grandma.

The problem is we all had play money in this that suddenly turned to real money, but it is still play infrastructure.

where else would you go? (serious question, I feel a bit stuck with Kraken as the only safe-ish option for alt-coin)
 Bittrex isn't accepting new accounts.  Non US based exchanges seem even riskier, but some operation called Qyrtos has the highest price. Mr. Exchange is my favorite Chinglesh name for a bush league Chinese exchange. 

sisto

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #711 on: January 02, 2018, 09:57:28 AM »
I've been trying to buy some Ripple, but account verification is taking forever. I only plan to invest $1K and it I make that back I'll likely pull it out and keep some invested.

What are you using to buy Ripple? I am thinking of buying $1000 as well but can’t decide what to use to buy it.
Planning to use Kraken, but still waiting on final verification.

hope you were able to get in on the action today. Ripple up almost 50% to above $2 today !
Unfortunately no, still waiting. This is why I viewed the entire $1K as gambling. I have terrible luck in timing these things which is why I just buy/hold Vanguard for my FIRE money.

FrugalSaver

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #712 on: January 03, 2018, 02:10:39 PM »
Ahhhh Ripple ripping

farmecologist

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #713 on: January 04, 2018, 07:34:25 AM »
You guys see MMM's article on the front page?  I'm not going to pass judgement on it but it was interesting that he threw in his 2 cents.


Retire-Canada

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #714 on: January 04, 2018, 07:40:40 AM »
You guys see MMM's article on the front page?  I'm not going to pass judgement on it but it was interesting that he threw in his 2 cents.

I think it's smart to tamp down enthusiasm in the masses who don't understand crypto - myself included. If you are a crypto-head and feel you know far more than MMM you can ignore him. However, for a lot of people that really want to FIRE taking a gamble on crypto just because it could short circuit years of accumulation the temptation needs to be tempered with the understanding that it's a huge risk as well that can do exactly the opposite if the bubble bursts at the wrong moment for them.


maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #715 on: January 04, 2018, 08:00:14 AM »
You guys see MMM's article on the front page?  I'm not going to pass judgement on it but it was interesting that he threw in his 2 cents.

I think it's smart to tamp down enthusiasm in the masses who don't understand crypto - myself included. If you are a crypto-head and feel you know far more than MMM you can ignore him. However, for a lot of people that really want to FIRE taking a gamble on crypto just because it could short circuit years of accumulation the temptation needs to be tempered with the understanding that it's a huge risk as well that can do exactly the opposite if the bubble bursts at the wrong moment for them.

Yup. +1 to all of this. I find the tech really exciting, but I wouldn't buy it as an investment, and it's been scary seeing how many people who don't understand the tech at all are now either considering or actually spending significant fractions of their networth into buying bitcoin (rarely other cryptocurrencies).

I could argue with some technical details around the margin, but I think it is much much better for the members of our community that MMM wrote a post saying "don't buy bitcoin" than one saying "buy bitcoin."

lifeanon269

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #716 on: January 04, 2018, 08:58:32 AM »
Yup. +1 to all of this. I find the tech really exciting, but I wouldn't buy it as an investment, and it's been scary seeing how many people who don't understand the tech at all are now either considering or actually spending significant fractions of their networth into buying bitcoin (rarely other cryptocurrencies).

Actually, what's scarier (especially at the moment) is that a lot of new people who don't understand the technology are branching out and buying into other crypto-currencies without really understanding the differences in the technology that they're buying. They're simply buying these currencies because they look "cheap" price-wise thinking that they're in on the ground floor of the next big thing. The liquidity in many of these markets for alt-coins are very low and there is no ground floor base of holding supporters like you have with Bitcoin which means when the pump is over, it will end up dumping to a very large degree.

On top of that, 5 out of the top 10 crypto-currencies by market cap (as if market cap means anything anymore) are all pre-mined currencies. Also, 6 out of the top 10 currencies have prices that are below $10 which confirms the theory that a lot of people are caught up in a frenzy to simply buy whatever currencies look "cheap" (as if the price means anything too).

I don't think this trend can last for long.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #717 on: January 04, 2018, 09:22:32 AM »
I hadn't run into that but now that you bring it up, it doesn't surprise me that it is happening.

Back when the price of gold was spiking, I remember reading about lots of people who were buying silver because they were sure it was going to "go up next" and even people who were paying inflated prices for copper rounds/bars with the same reasoning. (A 1 oz copper coin is only worth about 0.20 as actual metal).

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #718 on: January 04, 2018, 11:15:00 AM »
Also, 6 out of the top 10 currencies have prices that are below $10 which confirms the theory that a lot of people are caught up in a frenzy to simply buy whatever currencies look "cheap" (as if the price means anything too).

Here's hoping this trend makes my Dogecoins go to the moon! They cost less than a penny right now.

sol

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #719 on: January 04, 2018, 03:13:07 PM »
Here's hoping this trend makes my Dogecoins go to the moon! They cost less than a penny right now.

I see, I see a vision of the future...  a future in which every cryptocoin is a dogecoin.

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #720 on: January 04, 2018, 03:51:54 PM »
Here's hoping this trend makes my Dogecoins go to the moon! They cost less than a penny right now.

I see, I see a vision of the future...  a future in which every cryptocoin is a dogecoin.

So foresight. Much wise. Wow.

sisto

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #721 on: January 04, 2018, 04:06:59 PM »
Binance is quicker apparently.
Kraken takes many days and is a PITA to set up but is US based, Binance is in Hong Kong. Fees at Kraken are smallish.

If you just want to sell your XRP open an account at Kraken, sell your XRP into BTC, then BTC to LTC ( quicker and less fees to send to other exchange then send to Coinbase ( open Coinbase account first) trade your Litecoin for USD direct deposit into your bank account.
 
Why not trade directly xrp to USD in Kraken instead of this convoluted and fee heavy method you ask? Even though I am tier 3 verified the bank deposit or withdrawl has NEVER worked, but Coinbase has worked every time, hence the run around.....yeah the exchanges need some serious oversight IMO, it 's the wild west out there, makes pink sheets look stable.

You could just open an account at Coinbase and wait and believe the rumor that XRP will be listed there soon. In which case you should wait for that spike. Heads up that opening any of these accounts takes numerous days and several hoops to jump through.
This is the route I took. I ended up buying BTC in Coinbase and then transferring it to Binance where I bought Stratix and XRP.

Edit: Should note I bought in at $500 while waiting on the Kraken verification (now at tier 2, just one more to go). My $500 in Coinbase cost nearly $20 in fees and then another $14 to transfer to Binance, but it's been sitting around $625. Yes, I consider this gambling and not investing.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 04:12:10 PM by sisto »

CanuckExpat

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #722 on: January 04, 2018, 04:40:54 PM »
You guys see MMM's article on the front page?  I'm not going to pass judgement on it but it was interesting that he threw in his 2 cents.

Here’s some sage advice I saw recently:
“My time-saving hack for 2018:  Any time you read "Bitcoin" in a link title, just skip it.“

Maybe also applies to forum posts :)

lifeanon269

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #723 on: January 04, 2018, 05:51:56 PM »
So foresight. Much wise. Wow.

I see what you did there. lol

gp_

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #724 on: January 05, 2018, 11:01:37 AM »
It is a fact that ripple uses a system of "trusted validators" (node gateways). These node gateways can freeze or reverse transactions:

https://ripple.com/build/freeze/
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ripple-directs-bitstamp-to-freeze-funds-of-former-co-founder-jed-mccaleb

This is a permissioned network. Bitcoin is a permissionless network. Concentrated mining farms does not mean centralization; those farms can go down and bitcoin would still function. In ripple, a trusted validator goes down, and transactions sent to them don't get processed until they are back up. I'm not a fan of bitcoin or ripple, but ripple is a permissioned network.

comparing networks is apple and oranges (in this case between ripple and bitcoin), because they're 2 totally different assets with different use cases. ripple is settling remittances with banks, which parties needed to be verified and trusted. payments can still occur between counter-parties with individual or global freezes.

that cointelegraph article is almost 3 years old. jed mccaleb's funds were frozen because he and ripple signed a contract stating that he was only allowed to sell a certain amount per week. this was to enable market trust, and that he'd be unable to move an entire market if he decided to sell a large majority of his holdings at once. the founders also donated large majorities of their holdings back to the company (ripple labs). ripple also recently completed a 55b escrow to further create market trust.

yes, those farms could go down and btc could still function, same with ripple. arguing that ripple is centralized and bitcoin is not, is foolish. btc is still controlled by a minority. ripple at least has compliance under a regulatory framework, in which they couldn't flood a market at this point. do you think chinese mining farms/pools/factories operate in a similar way?

IndyPendent

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #725 on: January 05, 2018, 11:34:12 AM »
I managed to hop on the BTC and ETH wave from early-mid 2017 to now. Though I understood blockchain and had been researching it off and on over the last few years, I had it in my mind that this was pure gambling and more likely than not I'd lose a significant portion. I allocated gambling money appropriately.

Through sheer dumb luck, it quadrupled into an amount that was not insignificant, so I sold 75% and bought index funds. Now I'm comfortably back down into gambling money territory.

I had some very odd conversations where I simultaneously explained what bitcoin, ether, and blockchain were, why I was speculating, and in the same breath told everyone "don't buy in".

shadow

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #726 on: January 05, 2018, 12:29:00 PM »

comparing networks is apple and oranges (in this case between ripple and bitcoin), because they're 2 totally different assets with different use cases. ripple is settling remittances with banks, which parties needed to be verified and trusted. payments can still occur between counter-parties with individual or global freezes.

that cointelegraph article is almost 3 years old. jed mccaleb's funds were frozen because he and ripple signed a contract stating that he was only allowed to sell a certain amount per week. this was to enable market trust, and that he'd be unable to move an entire market if he decided to sell a large majority of his holdings at once. the founders also donated large majorities of their holdings back to the company (ripple labs). ripple also recently completed a 55b escrow to further create market trust.

yes, those farms could go down and btc could still function, same with ripple. arguing that ripple is centralized and bitcoin is not, is foolish. btc is still controlled by a minority. ripple at least has compliance under a regulatory framework, in which they couldn't flood a market at this point. do you think chinese mining farms/pools/factories operate in a similar way?

1. Are any banks using xrp token and do they need it for their transactions?

2. Does ripple network need xrp token to function?

3. Does ripple have a functional decentralized economic model?

If you can definitely answer yes to these questions, we can continue this discussion. Otherwise, ripple remains what it is: a permissioned, centralized network with trusted validators, 100% premined xrp tokens, of which a majority are controlled by the creators.

gp_

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #727 on: January 05, 2018, 05:10:32 PM »
1. Are any banks using xrp token and do they need it for their transactions?

2. Does ripple network need xrp token to function?

3. Does ripple have a functional decentralized economic model?

If you can definitely answer yes to these questions, we can continue this discussion. Otherwise, ripple remains what it is: a permissioned, centralized network with trusted validators, 100% premined xrp tokens, of which a majority are controlled by the creators.

1. yes. pt.2 - depends on what service they're using.

2. yes. pt.2 - depends on what service they're using.

3. to a degree, yes (and the chief cryptographer is making his 2018 goal to make ripple more decentralized than bitcoin).

again, their network needs to operate in this way given the industry(ies) they're working with, regulations, etc... the founders do not own the majority of supply, and only control it to a degree.


lifeanon269

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #728 on: January 05, 2018, 06:29:47 PM »
1. yes. pt.2 - depends on what service they're using.

2. yes. pt.2 - depends on what service they're using.

3. to a degree, yes (and the chief cryptographer is making his 2018 goal to make ripple more decentralized than bitcoin).

again, their network needs to operate in this way given the industry(ies) they're working with, regulations, etc... the founders do not own the majority of supply, and only control it to a degree.

1) Most banks are currently using the xCurrent platform which does not utilized XRP at all. Only one company has publicly claimed they were using XRP (Cuallix).

2) The answer is no. It does not need XRP to function. It can be utilized, but the only benefit for banks using it would arise if there were enough liquidity in the XRP market to make it worth while, which there isn't. Otherwise it just makes sense for financial institutions to take on the counter-party risk and use trusted gateways to send value across the network.

3) Ripple is not a decentralized network. Ripple uses a unique node list (UNL) that currently only contains 5 core validators all run by Ripple. To get on this node list Ripple must make sure that you're a trusted entity in order to maintain consensus (since there is no other consensus mechanism on the network). Therefore anyone who's sane should just be utilizing Ripple's own core validators (s1.ripple.com, s2.ripple.com, s3.ripple.com, etc). Anyone can set up and run their own validator, but doing so does not provide any consensus control or decentralization to the network unless someone actively choses to use them. Since they're not on the UNL, no one using XRP should use them since at any time they could suddenly find themselves following a non-consensus fork of XRP which could jeopardize your transactions. So no, the network is not decentralized.

I understand the Ripple needs to operate this way and that is perfectly fine. It is perfectly fine to position a company with an offering to financial institutions that has benefits over current platforms like SWIFT. In fact, that's exactly what banks are looking for. But to market Ripple as an open decentralized blockchain crypto-currency is extremely misleading to the general public when it is far from being that.

https://www.coindesk.com/100-billion-controversy-xrps-surge-raises-hard-questions-ripple/

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #729 on: January 06, 2018, 09:47:34 AM »
Also, 6 out of the top 10 currencies have prices that are below $10 which confirms the theory that a lot of people are caught up in a frenzy to simply buy whatever currencies look "cheap" (as if the price means anything too).

Here's hoping this trend makes my Dogecoins go to the moon! They cost less than a penny right now.

Of course two days later the price has gone up to 1.55˘. Do people not understand that this is a joke cryptocurrency that has been worth a few hundredths of a cent for most of its history?

sol

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #730 on: January 06, 2018, 10:38:38 AM »
Of course two days later the price has gone up to 1.55˘. Do people not understand that this is a joke cryptocurrency that has been worth a few hundredths of a cent for most of its history?

Dogecoin is up 1500% in a 45 days!  It's the future!  Quick, buy now before it's too late! 

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #731 on: January 06, 2018, 11:05:59 AM »
Of course two days later the price has gone up to 1.55˘. Do people not understand that this is a joke cryptocurrency that has been worth a few hundredths of a cent for most of its history?

I suspect lifeanon is right that many of the new people who have been drawn in by all the stories about how fast the price of bitcoin has increase are looking at the "unit price" and thinking ones with lower unit prices are better deals than ones with higher prices.

My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It would be interesting (from a behavioral economics standpoint anyway) to see how current buyers of a currency like litecoin could get away with announcing a 1:100 "currency split" where they moved the decimal point over two positions and 1 unit of litecoin was now worth ~$3 instead of ~$300, but everyone who already had the currency now had 100x as much litecoin.

In practice this would be hard to do, and the people who actually understand cryptocurrencies would certainly point and laugh, but my guess is that it might actually get more of the sort of people who are still putting money into the market to buy in.

sherr

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #732 on: January 06, 2018, 11:41:49 AM »
My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It's not. Stocks split because if you're actually directly buying stocks (as opposed to buying in to a mutual fund worth billions of dollars) you have to buy them in whole-share increments. So if you "only" have $500 to invest this month you couldn't buy a stock that cost $1000. So there's an entirely rational reason for keeping the price of an individual share of stock at a reasonable price.

Unlike the crypto market, which has nothing at all rational about it at the moment.

lifeanon269

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #733 on: January 06, 2018, 11:49:19 AM »
I suspect lifeanon is right that many of the new people who have been drawn in by all the stories about how fast the price of bitcoin has increase are looking at the "unit price" and thinking ones with lower unit prices are better deals than ones with higher prices.

My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It would be interesting (from a behavioral economics standpoint anyway) to see how current buyers of a currency like litecoin could get away with announcing a 1:100 "currency split" where they moved the decimal point over two positions and 1 unit of litecoin was now worth ~$3 instead of ~$300, but everyone who already had the currency now had 100x as much litecoin.

In practice this would be hard to do, and the people who actually understand cryptocurrencies would certainly point and laugh, but my guess is that it might actually get more of the sort of people who are still putting money into the market to buy in.

There has already been talks with Bitcoin about utilizing different denominations to help make it easier for people to transact with a currency who's whole price is in the tens of thousands. Moving to a unit of "bits" will also help drive the idea that bitcoin isn't "expensive" from a price perspective because price isn't really relevant with an infinitely divisible currency. A "currency split" isn't really a systemic or programmatic change but merely a behavioral change to get people to start displaying the units of account differently. Here is the link to BIP176 that was proposed for Bitcoin:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0176.mediawiki

sherr

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #734 on: January 06, 2018, 11:55:19 AM »
I suspect lifeanon is right that many of the new people who have been drawn in by all the stories about how fast the price of bitcoin has increase are looking at the "unit price" and thinking ones with lower unit prices are better deals than ones with higher prices.

My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It would be interesting (from a behavioral economics standpoint anyway) to see how current buyers of a currency like litecoin could get away with announcing a 1:100 "currency split" where they moved the decimal point over two positions and 1 unit of litecoin was now worth ~$3 instead of ~$300, but everyone who already had the currency now had 100x as much litecoin.

In practice this would be hard to do, and the people who actually understand cryptocurrencies would certainly point and laugh, but my guess is that it might actually get more of the sort of people who are still putting money into the market to buy in.

There has already been talks with Bitcoin about utilizing different denominations to help make it easier for people to transact with a currency who's whole price is in the tens of thousands. Moving to a unit of "bits" will also help drive the idea that bitcoin isn't "expensive" from a price perspective because price isn't really relevant with an infinitely divisible currency. A "currency split" isn't really a systemic or programmatic change but merely a behavioral change to get people to start displaying the units of account differently. Here is the link to BIP176 that was proposed for Bitcoin:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0176.mediawiki

"Hey we should get everyone on the internet to change their behavior for 'reasons' we ourselves admit are completely irrational." Yup, totally sounds like something that would be floated by the bitcoin community right about now.

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #735 on: January 06, 2018, 12:42:43 PM »
My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It's not. Stocks split because if you're actually directly buying stocks (as opposed to buying in to a mutual fund worth billions of dollars) you have to buy them in whole-share increments. So if you "only" have $500 to invest this month you couldn't buy a stock that cost $1000. So there's an entirely rational reason for keeping the price of an individual share of stock at a reasonable price.

Unlike the crypto market, which has nothing at all rational about it at the moment.

There are basically three (maybe more) economic models for why companies do stock splits.

1) It's a signaling mechanism which shows the confidence of management in their ability to continue to grow the company.
2) Investor psychology (low information investors are more likely to buy stocks with cheap unit prices than large unit prices).
3) Greater liquidity when the size of traded units of ownership are smaller.

I'd be happy to debate the evidence for the relative significance of these three factors in when and whether or not companies decide to split their stock, but if that would be of interest would you be up for creating a new thread, since this doesn't seem particularly relevant to blockchain/cryptocurrency issues?

seattlecyclone

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #736 on: January 06, 2018, 02:08:05 PM »
I suspect lifeanon is right that many of the new people who have been drawn in by all the stories about how fast the price of bitcoin has increase are looking at the "unit price" and thinking ones with lower unit prices are better deals than ones with higher prices.

My understanding is that the same reasoning is one of the reasons corporations used to do stock splits. People were more likely to consider buying shares in corp A a good deal if the shares where $20 (with 5 million shares outstanding) than $100 (with 1 million shares outstanding).

It would be interesting (from a behavioral economics standpoint anyway) to see how current buyers of a currency like litecoin could get away with announcing a 1:100 "currency split" where they moved the decimal point over two positions and 1 unit of litecoin was now worth ~$3 instead of ~$300, but everyone who already had the currency now had 100x as much litecoin.

In practice this would be hard to do, and the people who actually understand cryptocurrencies would certainly point and laugh, but my guess is that it might actually get more of the sort of people who are still putting money into the market to buy in.

There has already been talks with Bitcoin about utilizing different denominations to help make it easier for people to transact with a currency who's whole price is in the tens of thousands. Moving to a unit of "bits" will also help drive the idea that bitcoin isn't "expensive" from a price perspective because price isn't really relevant with an infinitely divisible currency. A "currency split" isn't really a systemic or programmatic change but merely a behavioral change to get people to start displaying the units of account differently. Here is the link to BIP176 that was proposed for Bitcoin:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0176.mediawiki

"Hey we should get everyone on the internet to change their behavior for 'reasons' we ourselves admit are completely irrational." Yup, totally sounds like something that would be floated by the bitcoin community right about now.

If you're using it as an actual currency, spending a few ten-thousandths of a base currency unit for a small purchase is going to throw people off. Better to have the base unit be something in the same general order of magnitude as many of the other major world currencies, rather than ten thousand times higher.

If you're treating it as a stock, the actual price is irrelevant.

gp_

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #737 on: January 06, 2018, 02:59:42 PM »
1) Most banks are currently using the xCurrent platform which does not utilized XRP at all. Only one company has publicly claimed they were using XRP (Cuallix).

2) The answer is no. It does not need XRP to function. It can be utilized, but the only benefit for banks using it would arise if there were enough liquidity in the XRP market to make it worth while, which there isn't. Otherwise it just makes sense for financial institutions to take on the counter-party risk and use trusted gateways to send value across the network.

3) Ripple is not a decentralized network. Ripple uses a unique node list (UNL) that currently only contains 5 core validators all run by Ripple. To get on this node list Ripple must make sure that you're a trusted entity in order to maintain consensus (since there is no other consensus mechanism on the network). Therefore anyone who's sane should just be utilizing Ripple's own core validators (s1.ripple.com, s2.ripple.com, s3.ripple.com, etc). Anyone can set up and run their own validator, but doing so does not provide any consensus control or decentralization to the network unless someone actively choses to use them. Since they're not on the UNL, no one using XRP should use them since at any time they could suddenly find themselves following a non-consensus fork of XRP which could jeopardize your transactions. So no, the network is not decentralized.

I understand the Ripple needs to operate this way and that is perfectly fine. It is perfectly fine to position a company with an offering to financial institutions that has benefits over current platforms like SWIFT. In fact, that's exactly what banks are looking for. But to market Ripple as an open decentralized blockchain crypto-currency is extremely misleading to the general public when it is far from being that.

https://www.coindesk.com/100-billion-controversy-xrps-surge-raises-hard-questions-ripple/

1. sbi has already confirmed that it's going live with xrp this spring. ripple has also stated that 3 of the 5 top global money transfer companies will use xrp in payment flows this year too.

2. as i said, it depends on the services. xrp is needed as an anti-spam measure for transaction purposes otherwise it's further use in transactions can be completely optional.

3. as i said, to a degree it is (and it's a priority to create further decentralization in 2018). ripple will replace their nodes with attested third-party validating nodes. for every two attested third-party validating nodes which meet consensus agreement rate, uptime, and verification of identity and public attestation, ripple will remove one of their validating nodes until no entity operates a majority of trusted nodes on the XRP Ledger. they're extremely transparent.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 06:06:55 PM by gp_ »

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #738 on: January 06, 2018, 05:55:39 PM »
There has already been talks with Bitcoin about utilizing different denominations to help make it easier for people to transact with a currency who's whole price is in the tens of thousands. Moving to a unit of "bits" will also help drive the idea that bitcoin isn't "expensive" from a price perspective because price isn't really relevant with an infinitely divisible currency. A "currency split" isn't really a systemic or programmatic change but merely a behavioral change to get people to start displaying the units of account differently. Here is the link to BIP176 that was proposed for Bitcoin:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0176.mediawiki

Very cool, thanks for the link! The write up also makes the point (which I hadn't thought of, but agree with having had it pointed out to me), that numbers starting with lots of zeros are a lot easier to confuse either when you are looking at them quickly when reading or when you type them in.  For example 0.000421 vs 0.000042

Apple_Tango

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #739 on: January 06, 2018, 08:04:44 PM »
Kerry McCarpet posted another video about blockchain on her YouTube channel, and I find her opinion fascinating. I just figure this thread is as good as any to post the link. This time the  topic is about how Blockchain will make us work harder to maintain the value of our money.

https://youtu.be/tswLAdW2IIQ

shadow

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #740 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:42 PM »
1) Most banks are currently using the xCurrent platform which does not utilized XRP at all. Only one company has publicly claimed they were using XRP (Cuallix).

2) The answer is no. It does not need XRP to function. It can be utilized, but the only benefit for banks using it would arise if there were enough liquidity in the XRP market to make it worth while, which there isn't. Otherwise it just makes sense for financial institutions to take on the counter-party risk and use trusted gateways to send value across the network.

3) Ripple is not a decentralized network. Ripple uses a unique node list (UNL) that currently only contains 5 core validators all run by Ripple. To get on this node list Ripple must make sure that you're a trusted entity in order to maintain consensus (since there is no other consensus mechanism on the network). Therefore anyone who's sane should just be utilizing Ripple's own core validators (s1.ripple.com, s2.ripple.com, s3.ripple.com, etc). Anyone can set up and run their own validator, but doing so does not provide any consensus control or decentralization to the network unless someone actively choses to use them. Since they're not on the UNL, no one using XRP should use them since at any time they could suddenly find themselves following a non-consensus fork of XRP which could jeopardize your transactions. So no, the network is not decentralized.

I understand the Ripple needs to operate this way and that is perfectly fine. It is perfectly fine to position a company with an offering to financial institutions that has benefits over current platforms like SWIFT. In fact, that's exactly what banks are looking for. But to market Ripple as an open decentralized blockchain crypto-currency is extremely misleading to the general public when it is far from being that.

https://www.coindesk.com/100-billion-controversy-xrps-surge-raises-hard-questions-ripple/

1. sbi has already confirmed that it's going live with xrp this spring. ripple has also stated that 3 of the 5 top global money transfer companies will use xrp in payment flows this year too.

2. as i said, it depends on the services. xrp is needed as an anti-spam measure for transaction purposes otherwise it's further use in transactions can be completely optional.

3. as i said, to a degree it is (and it's a priority to create further decentralization in 2018). ripple will replace their nodes with attested third-party validating nodes. for every two attested third-party validating nodes which meet consensus agreement rate, uptime, and verification of identity and public attestation, ripple will remove one of their validating nodes until no entity operates a majority of trusted nodes on the XRP Ledger. they're extremely transparent.

lifeanon269 is correct. Ripple is a permissioned network that uses trusted validators.

gp_

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #741 on: January 07, 2018, 10:09:03 AM »
lifeanon269 is correct. Ripple is a permissioned network that uses trusted validators.

i never once said you or him were incorrect. the issue is people continue to talk in absolutes and report false facts without knowing what's happening. again, ripple is working toward no single entity operating a majority of trusted nodes on the XRP Ledger.

powskier

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #742 on: January 07, 2018, 02:33:32 PM »
Binance is quicker apparently.
Kraken takes many days and is a PITA to set up but is US based, Binance is in Hong Kong. Fees at Kraken are smallish.

If you just want to sell your XRP open an account at Kraken, sell your XRP into BTC, then BTC to LTC ( quicker and less fees to send to other exchange then send to Coinbase ( open Coinbase account first) trade your Litecoin for USD direct deposit into your bank account.
 
Why not trade directly xrp to USD in Kraken instead of this convoluted and fee heavy method you ask? Even though I am tier 3 verified the bank deposit or withdrawl has NEVER worked, but Coinbase has worked every time, hence the run around.....yeah the exchanges need some serious oversight IMO, it 's the wild west out there, makes pink sheets look stable.

You could just open an account at Coinbase and wait and believe the rumor that XRP will be listed there soon. In which case you should wait for that spike. Heads up that opening any of these accounts takes numerous days and several hoops to jump through.

For a "currency" that claims to aspire to act as a bridge between every other currency, this seems unnecessarily convoluted. Is there really no way to convert XRP directly to USD with an organization that will actually pay out USD (you know, the most important part of a currency conversion)?
The currency isn't the problem, the exchange is. I can sell the XRP for USD no problem, but because the exchange is overwhelmed I cannot currently move that USD in USD form to my bank account.Hence the need to use other coins to transfer "the value". I am verifed to do this action but it won't go through. They have had 2 different "fix it" tickets to see what is wrong but haven't fixed it. I have not had this issue on Coinbase, but Coinbase does not currently list XRP.

Edited to add: the exchanges are the place that will see regulation first, hopefully. Easily overwhelmed, unreliable. Crypto is gambling for sure, but the exchanges make it seem like gambling in a dark alley on top of cardboard boxes instead of a nice casino. I suspect that during the dumps , the big holders get their rewards and everyone else watches their money disappear because the exchange just says "sorry, services down".
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 02:52:42 PM by powskier »

PDXTabs

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #743 on: January 07, 2018, 04:08:25 PM »
The currency isn't the problem, the exchange is. I can sell the XRP for USD no problem, but because the exchange is overwhelmed I cannot currently move that USD in USD form to my bank account.Hence the need to use other coins to transfer "the value". I am verifed to do this action but it won't go through. They have had 2 different "fix it" tickets to see what is wrong but haven't fixed it. I have not had this issue on Coinbase, but Coinbase does not currently list XRP.

Edited to add: the exchanges are the place that will see regulation first, hopefully. Easily overwhelmed, unreliable. Crypto is gambling for sure, but the exchanges make it seem like gambling in a dark alley on top of cardboard boxes instead of a nice casino. I suspect that during the dumps , the big holders get their rewards and everyone else watches their money disappear because the exchange just says "sorry, services down".

That makes me think that there is a demand for better exchanges. How do we invest in an exchange?

maizeman

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #744 on: January 07, 2018, 05:04:55 PM »
The problem is that the regulatory burden for running an exchange/money transmitting business in the USA is quite high compared to many other first world nations. This is why a lot of foreign banks refuse to open accounts for americans since FATCA passed in 2010 and why some major cryptocurrency exchanges like Bitfinex won't let americans open accounts either.

Coinbase appears to be keeping all of their ducks in a row with regards to legal compliance paperwork, but it means identity validation can take quite a while. They actually seem to spend a lot of time and effort tracking where customers send their bitcoins after their are purchased because they will often freeze user accounts if purchased bitcoins end up being used to pay for things like online gambling or if they think you are selling your bitcoins on platforms like localbitcoins. I imagine it may also be part of the reason they are slower and more reluctant to open up trading in new currency pairs since presumably each new currency increases their regulatory compliance costs significantly.

I know I sure wouldn't want to run an cryptocurrency exchange in the USA. On one side you have crazy high volatility and sudden surges of trading volume that are going to overwhelm however many servers you have stood up, on the second side you're painting a giant target on your back for hackers who'd like to pull money out of your various corporate wallets, and on the third side draconian penalties for failures to comply with banking regulations designed for a previous era applied not just to you, but to anyone you do business with (which makes it hard to maintain relationships with traditional banks to wire customer's money to them).

waltworks

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #745 on: January 07, 2018, 05:59:59 PM »
No intent to derail - thanks to everyone for the fascinating discussion! I have zero interest in "investing" in purchasing currency, crypto or not, but I'm excited to see if cryptos can break the credit card vampire squid stranglehold on payments that we have to live with.

-W

trollwithamustache

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #746 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:21 AM »
No intent to derail - thanks to everyone for the fascinating discussion! I have zero interest in "investing" in purchasing currency, crypto or not, but I'm excited to see if cryptos can break the credit card vampire squid stranglehold on payments that we have to live with.

-W

This is what first got me playing in Crypto... why do we have to pay banks to use our money?
  Everyone complains about BTC transaction costs but remember, every credit card transaction VISA and the banks get 1-2%... its just built into everyone's prices.

Tonyahu

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #747 on: January 08, 2018, 03:23:49 PM »

EXAMPLE:
Today on 10/04/2017: 1 Bitcoin is $4,800, 1 Monero is $91, 1 Ether is $292, 1 Lisk is $5.45, 1 LINK is $.39 and 1 ARDR is $.16.


Today on 12/06/2017: 1 Bitcoin is $13,400, 1 Monero is $282, 1 Ether is $430, 1 Lisk is $9.10 1 LINK is $.31 and 1 ARDR is $.55.

Today on 1/8/2018: 1 Bitcoin is $14,900, 1 Monero is $400, 1 Ether is $1,150, 1 Lisk is $31, 1 LINK is $1.30 and 1 ARDR is $1.61

Once in a lifetime opportunity.

Mustachio Bashio

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #748 on: January 08, 2018, 08:56:12 PM »
Just started to get into this alt-coin game a couple days ago because of all the fomo.  It's definitely slightly addicting.  Anyone have a new fave they're excited about?  Looking for big things from QASH.

runbikerun

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Re: OFFICIAL: Blockchain / Crypto-Currency Portfolios and Discussion
« Reply #749 on: January 08, 2018, 09:31:11 PM »

EXAMPLE:
Today on 10/04/2017: 1 Bitcoin is $4,800, 1 Monero is $91, 1 Ether is $292, 1 Lisk is $5.45, 1 LINK is $.39 and 1 ARDR is $.16.


Today on 12/06/2017: 1 Bitcoin is $13,400, 1 Monero is $282, 1 Ether is $430, 1 Lisk is $9.10 1 LINK is $.31 and 1 ARDR is $.55.

Today on 1/8/2018: 1 Bitcoin is $14,900, 1 Monero is $400, 1 Ether is $1,150, 1 Lisk is $31, 1 LINK is $1.30 and 1 ARDR is $1.61

Once in a lifetime opportunity.

Is this not worrying to some crypto boosters? Based on those numbers, you're looking at an annualised increase of somewhere between 8,000 and 1,000,000 per cent. Given the number of people arguing that we're looking at a bubble, is there an increase that would cause you to consider whether they were right?