Author Topic: Met with a 'financial advisor'  (Read 2017 times)

Roamer

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Met with a 'financial advisor'
« on: February 16, 2025, 03:04:16 PM »
I have most of my money with Vanguard and the rest with Fidelity.  He said those were not good and that having most of my Vanguard money in VTSAX was not good as it was large cap and small is the way to go.  Their fees are hidden, blah blah blah.  They use the Mark Matson philosophy and only their specialized program can beat the market.  I don't think I will change anything other than than to rebalance my holdings.  I was thinking of the couch potato method of US Index, Int Index, and US bonds.  I just hate to give % of my holdings to an advisor. 

Fru-Gal

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2025, 03:08:35 PM »
Wow, terrible advice to switch to proprietary funds with hidden fees.

Vanguard is the one I trust most, thanks to its unique ownership structure (basically it’s investor-owned). https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/110515/who-are-owners-vanguard-group.asp

I also like Fidelity. Schwab I don’t like because of their founder’s politics.

Roamer

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2025, 03:19:56 PM »
I just read Millionaire Teacher, by Andrew Hallam. It was a great read and I hope to retire in a few years and not have to worry about money. I know that would please my wife as she is slowly coming around to not thinking of the stock market as gambling as much as she used to.

reeshau

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2025, 04:52:33 PM »
They use the Mark Matson philosophy and only their specialized program can beat the market. 

Utter rubbish.

Most here would say it's rubbish because nobody can beat the market.  I say it's rubbish because there are multiple ways to beat the market.  All of them require time, patience, and discipline; qualities generally lacking in the US, and in humanity overall.  Which is why it's difficult.

Do not let anyone coerce you to invest with them through fear.  The stock market is not something to fear; it is something to harness, either through passive investing (the easy way) or through active investing (the hard way).

Roamer

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2025, 05:06:15 PM »
It was kind of funny and as they said no one can beat the market and you can't time it etc. 

reeshau

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2025, 05:34:22 PM »
You're supposed to be afraid enough by then that you don't notice the doublespeak.

I looked at a couple video shorts to get some idea of their method and...it goes downhill from here.

"If anybody knew the secret to forecasting the market, they wouldn't share it with you!"  "Use our proprietary method to beat the market!"

The only internally consistent explanation is that they think they themselves are dumb.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2025, 08:22:29 AM by reeshau »

aasdfadsf

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2025, 07:41:07 PM »
They use the Mark Matson philosophy and only their specialized program can beat the market. 

I had never heard of this dude. Their website and FAQ are basically a long-winded way of telling you that you need to be an index fund investor and use maybe a 3 fund portfolio of the kind that Bogle or someone came up with decades ago, yet you need to pay them and go to their seminars to learn all about this amazing new investment philosophy. Which defeats the whole purpose of not paying someone to direct your investments for you. And Art Laffer is on their academic advisory board! Yes, that Art Laffer.   

There's also a lot out there that is even less flattering -- some fraud accusations and stuff, though unclear how responsible they are for it -- that I don't care to wade into. 

JAYSLOL

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2025, 09:57:52 PM »
To put it somewhat bluntly, he sounds like a leach that wants to suck that 1-2% off you for life, or at least get a sweet front end commission from selling some garbage he’s paid to promote, and either way doesn’t care if you do better with him or managing your own money as long as he’s taking some of it.  A flat fee fiduciary advisor to get retirement/estate/tax planning advice when you have a large portfolio is fine, but don’t have a leach manage funds for you, or god forbid, sell you funds that they also manage. I’d bet you beat his returns 9 out of every 10 years before you even factor in the absurd fees.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2025, 03:53:19 AM »
He said ... and that having most of my Vanguard money in VTSAX was not good as it was large cap and small is the way to go.  Their fees are hidden, blah blah blah.
He's lying about "fees are hidden".  Vanguard's expense ratio is public knowledge, and can be looked up on third-party websites like Morningstar.
https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vtsax/quote

Can Vanguard get "secret shoppers" to record people like this, and get them fired and their license revoked?  He'll just claim he didn't know... ignoring the fact that his advice needs to meet a fiduciary standard, not be things he made up.

Mark Matson bought heavily into a stock that fell 16% in the past 6 months, while the S&P 500 rose 9%.  His 6 month performance seems to be -25% behind the market.  Maybe this doesn't reflect how he invests client's money, though.
https://www.gurufocus.com/insider/163961/mark-matson

According to this article, he has access to Dimensional Funds.
https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2018/11/28/he-grew-up-wanting-to-be-a-financial-planner-but-soon-hated-it/

Which is great, but... now everyone has access to Dimensional ETFs, without his help.
https://etfdb.com/etfs/issuers/dimensional/

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2025, 04:03:40 AM »
Sounds like a shitty salesman.........in the future don't waste your time with these people.

Metalcat

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2025, 04:04:42 AM »
No one can beat the market, so you have to invest with them because they can beat the market??

How the fuck does that make any sense.

And if they could beat the market, why the fuck would they be wasting their time doing meetings with small fry investors like you, who they didn't even manage to convince during the sales meeting??

Roamer

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2025, 07:28:07 PM »
I'm a sales meeting fail for sure!  Thanks for the comments, and I will continue on my journey to my balanced porfolio with yearly rebalancing.  Now if I could only convince my brother to do his own investing and not use Edward Jones. 

markbike528CBX

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2025, 09:26:02 PM »
Text joke message from a friend (friends since middle school):

Quote
R u ready to invest in my hedge fund? Outperforming the S&P 500 by 650% last quarter. ( Not net of manage fees of course but hey I don't see you (the client) doing any of the work. Standard 2% plus 25% of the profits apply, does give the ability to say,"...my hedge fund manager says..." at cocktail parties. Get in now before the fund closes to new investors...the fine print: past performance doesn't guarantee future performance, all investments have risk of loss, the only guarantee is the hedge fund manager will make money but like was previously stated, "...we don't see you doing any of the work.."  /joke

The friend had been a financial advisor for about 10 years. 
In a long phone conversation we had recently, he described "investment advisors" who at least thought like this and sometimes pretty much said it too.
 One guy sold B shares (no load but high ongoing fees) and when the withdrawal penalty 4 to 7 years was over, slammed the client into "managed money" with 1.5% or more of his fees, on top of the managed money fees.

My friend, as workmanlike and honest as you can get a financial advisor, got clients into "great" bonds Worldcomm, Enron and Tyco -- "the trifecta"
Oh yeah, he was MY financial advisor for a while.  As soon as I left money with him in 2001, everything took a 30% dive. 
When he left one company some years later, I transferred tIRA to Vanguard as cash -- March 2008.
Got back in in September 2008 as my IPS said to go in at -20% and all in at -30%.   How could anything go wrong :-)

vand

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2025, 09:08:43 AM »
Not really sure what else OP was expecting. Love, Truth & Honesty?

reeshau

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2025, 12:01:17 PM »
Not really sure what else OP was expecting. Love, Truth & Honesty?

"Just the fact that you're asking these questions means that you shouldn't really go with us.  We look for people who aren't really paying attention, and help protect them from the market's worst excesses by making sure to moderate their gains with our fees."

Roamer

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2025, 05:10:06 PM »
Thanks to you guys (and gals) I said no...

J.P. MoreGains

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2025, 09:13:31 AM »
Could be worth paying an hourly fee to a fiduciary instead who is legally obligated to have your best financial interest in mind.

Roamer

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2025, 10:09:39 AM »
They said they were a fiduciary, and charge about 1% for their fees. I have heard other companies say they are a fiduciary so I dont know how to trust any of them.

Metalcat

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2025, 10:20:42 AM »
They said they were a fiduciary, and charge about 1% for their fees. I have heard other companies say they are a fiduciary so I dont know how to trust any of them.

Just because someone is a fiduciary doesn't mean they can't believe in stupid shit as beneficial.

The simple fact is that you can't just blindly trust anyone with your financial plans. You must have enough financial literacy to be able to use financial advice effectively.

I had a really great FA when I first started working. Stand up, smart guy. But I knew so little about investing that I didn't understand enough to utilize his advice effectively and I ended up in investments that totally fit what I thought I wanted, but once I understood what would actually work for me, I realized how poorly invested I was for my actual needs.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2025, 10:33:23 AM »
They said they were a fiduciary, and charge about 1% for their fees. I have heard other companies say they are a fiduciary so I dont know how to trust any of them.

Ask for their form ADV which they should provide readily. The 1% fee is not in opposition to being a fiduciary.

But you are smart to be wary. Since I'm a former fiduciary, a neighbor asked me to sit in on a call she had with a 403b provider. I was appalled to hear someone with only an insurance license, not other credentials, claim to be a fiduciary. Not even close. Of course this was a call so no proof but I really wanted to report her to her state.

So ask for the documents and things in writing.

GreatLaker

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2025, 06:01:00 PM »
This is a great free ebook (pdf) that explains how investments and the investment industry works. The author says more in 16 pages than others say in hundreds. It will help you understand why the advisor says what he does, and why much of it is in his interest, not yours.

William Bernstein: If You Can, How Millennials can Get Rich Slowly

J.P. MoreGains

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2025, 09:29:05 AM »
Am I correct in thinking that financial advisors are not legally obligated to act in your best financial interest? This blew my mind when I first learned this... what advising can they really do then?

Fiduciaries are actually legally obligated to act in your best financial interest... I'm correct on this?

reeshau

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2025, 10:04:14 AM »
Am I correct in thinking that financial advisors are not legally obligated to act in your best financial interest? This blew my mind when I first learned this... what advising can they really do then?

Fiduciaries are actually legally obligated to act in your best financial interest... I'm correct on this?

"financial advisor" is not a legal definition; it's a general term that means nothing.  If that's the best they can do, they are probably a salesman.  There are a ton of acronyms that don't address this, either.

If you work with a Certified Financial Planner, they attest to a fiduciary duty:
https://www.cfp.net/ethics/compliance-resources/2018/05/focus-on-ethics---cfp-professionals-fiduciary-duty-when-providing-financial-advice

Insist on details, and ask the question about fiduciary duty directly.  If they say "yes," ask them to provide it in writing.

J.P. MoreGains

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Re: Met with a 'financial advisor'
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2025, 08:58:32 AM »
@reeshau Thank you this is good to know.