Author Topic: Management Fees on $800K Assets  (Read 961 times)

SimpleLifer

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Management Fees on $800K Assets
« on: June 10, 2019, 04:12:30 PM »
I'd appreciate your feedback on these fees.  I'm loving the FIRE spreadsheet shared here on the forum.  It has allowed me to see the big picture on what my investments cost. 

Now I'm curious to know what these fees will do to my goals, and life-plans...I'm looking at these fees and thinking I could live quite well on $40K/year!

For the taxable account, I've slowly sold higher-fee assets and moved $ to other assets...so this is not my first look at the fees.

My goal is to get all accounts into a 3-fund portfolio across all accounts, and leave my day-job ASAP (2-7 years, depending on housing situation). 

After reading through many helpful threads here, bogleheads, and Go Curry (avoiding taxes), I'm starting to think about incurring some CG tax after I leave my day-job and have less Earned Income. 


Here are my investments that incur management fees. 

401k
Ticker          Amount           Fee             Fee in Dollars
VTSNX   $28,400       0.08              $2,272
VIEIX   $30,698      0.06              $1,841
VINIX   $32,072       0.035      $1,122

Rollover IRA
VTSAX       $337,310          0.04            $13,492

HSA
VHT           $8,121             0.1               $812
VOO          $7,513             0.03              $225

Taxable Account
VTSAX       $118,502         0.040            $4,740 (short)
PSA           $32,607           0.05              $1,630 (long)
SCHD        $25,695           0.06              $1,541 (long)
IJR            $29,298           0.07              $2,050 (long)
IJH            $43,301           0.07              $3,031 (long)
VOO          $57,889           0.03              $1,736 (long)
VTIAX        $21,081           0.11              $2,319 (plan to invest this week)
VBTLX        $70,194           0.05              $3,509 (plan to invest this week)

Total Fees:  $40,325
Average Fees:  4.21% (based on total portfolio: $958K)





cloudsail

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 04:49:02 PM »
Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

branman42

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 06:49:48 PM »
Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Agreed. Your ~40K should be more like $400.

SimpleLifer

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 09:54:13 PM »
Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Agreed. Your ~40K should be more like $400.

I'm feeling pretty dumb right about now.  Thanks for the catch. 

I went back and corrected my error and my management fees came out to $403. 

Thank you for catching my typos!!!!

cloudsail

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 10:13:22 PM »
Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Agreed. Your ~40K should be more like $400.

I'm feeling pretty dumb right about now.  Thanks for the catch. 

I went back and corrected my error and my management fees came out to $403. 

Thank you for catching my typos!!!!

Don't feel dumb, it was a simple mistake. And look at it this way, you've suddenly eliminated a $40k per year expense! That's something to feel pretty happy about :)

vand

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 05:30:43 AM »
Those fees are more than fine... you cheapskate.

Car Jack

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 10:46:19 AM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

RWD

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 12:33:54 PM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

Can you point me to a lower ER international index fund instead of VTIAX?

SimpleLifer

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 04:36:57 PM »
Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.

Your math is off. An expense ratio of 0.08 means 0.08%, not 8%.


Agreed. Your ~40K should be more like $400.

I'm feeling pretty dumb right about now.  Thanks for the catch. 

I went back and corrected my error and my management fees came out to $403. 

Thank you for catching my typos!!!!

Don't feel dumb, it was a simple mistake. And look at it this way, you've suddenly eliminated a $40k per year expense! That's something to feel pretty happy about :)

If only every $40k expense could be that easily eliminated.  ;-)

SimpleLifer

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 04:39:20 PM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

Can you point me to a lower ER international index fund instead of VTIAX?

@Car Jack - I'd love a recommendation too.  Seems like fees on international is always a bit higher.  I'm planning to invest those funds (into VTIAX) this week, so this is the time to go for something else! 

Thanks for the feedback.  Much appreciated!

Rob_bob

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 05:35:25 PM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

Can you point me to a lower ER international index fund instead of VTIAX?

Vanguard All World EX US, VEU, has an ER of 0.09%

RWD

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2019, 09:08:37 PM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

Can you point me to a lower ER international index fund instead of VTIAX?

Vanguard All World EX US, VEU, has an ER of 0.09%

Hmm, interesting that the ETF expense ratios are lower. I just checked VXUS (which is the ETF version of VTIAX) and it is also 0.09%.

Car Jack

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 08:16:36 AM »
All of my international is in developed international and I go with ETFs there.  VEA at TDAmeritrade at 0.05%.  I moved it out of Vanguard after they consistently gave me wrong answers and backed up those wrong answers with documentation that was also wrong.

I got money to move to TDA.  At some point, after the time is up, I may move again.  Fidelity has FSPSX, which is 0.035% and a few other international funds below 0.1%.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 08:20:21 AM by Car Jack »

CorpRaider

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 12:35:09 PM »
I think FIDO did a zero ER total international mutual fund too. 

appleshampooid

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 12:57:41 PM »
As someone hyper sensitive to fees, I'd say to dump the 0.1% fund and the 0.11% fund.  There is zero reason to have them with the lower cost stuff you have.  Good job on the rest.  With my hyper sensitivity.....my average ER across my portfolio is 0.0194%.  $477.47 for $2,465,777.15 as of today.

Can you point me to a lower ER international index fund instead of VTIAX?

Vanguard All World EX US, VEU, has an ER of 0.09%

Hmm, interesting that the ETF expense ratios are lower. I just checked VXUS (which is the ETF version of VTIAX) and it is also 0.09%.
The difference in these funds is that VTIAX (VXUS) contains many more companies - mostly small and microcap. See the differences here (VEU is the ETF class of VFWAX):
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/vfwax - 2844 stocks
https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/profile/vtiax - 6423 stocks

Granted they perform almost identically, since the larger stocks drive most of the performance. But I have a slight preference for VTIAX as it is more diversified. These two are great TLH partners.
I think FIDO did a zero ER total international mutual fund too.
Yes, that would be FZILX. To compare to the above 2 funds, it holds 2127 stocks (https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/31635T609).

SimpleLifer

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2019, 08:13:19 AM »
this was a very helpful discussion, thanks a lot for the advise.  Much appreciated! 

AdrianC

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Re: Management Fees on $800K Assets
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2019, 10:28:28 AM »
this was a very helpful discussion, thanks a lot for the advise.  Much appreciated!
You should take a look at fund placement.