Author Topic: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions  (Read 137992 times)

BicycleB

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #450 on: December 16, 2022, 11:10:54 AM »
BlackRock's 2023 outlook summary:
We stay underweight DM equities [...]
We are strategically overweight DM equities. [...]
?
In the past, the Fed has lowered rates about 9 months after lowering them.  So if the Fed finishes in March 2023, they could start lowering rates by the end of 2023.  Even the most bearish strategist (Morgan Stanley's Mike Wilson) has this view: a crappy start to 2023, followed by a recovery later into the year.

after raising?

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #451 on: December 16, 2022, 01:10:41 PM »
BlackRock's 2023 outlook summary:
We stay underweight DM equities [...]
We are strategically overweight DM equities. [...]
?
In the past, the Fed has lowered rates about 9 months after lowering them.  So if the Fed finishes in March 2023, they could start lowering rates by the end of 2023.  Even the most bearish strategist (Morgan Stanley's Mike Wilson) has this view: a crappy start to 2023, followed by a recovery later into the year.
after raising?
Yes, my bad: how long after the Fed reaches a peak rate does it lower rates.  As penance for my mistake I was going to quote an article, but I can't find one.  Instead, I found Fed data that shows 2018-2019 and 2006-2007 rate hike periods
https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/openmarket.htm

June 29, 2006 ... +0.25% to peak 5.25% rate
Sept 18, 2007 ... -0.50%
--> 13.4 month gap

Dec 20, 2018 ... +0.25% to peak 2.25% rate
Aug 1, 2019 ... -0.25%
--> 7.4 month gap

The peak 5% rate was followed by a severe recession, which meant the peak rate was held for 13 months.  If this gap applies now, a March 2023 peak would indicate April/May 2024 before rates come down.  Side note - severe recession and 5% Fed funds rate, that's an interesting data point.

The more recent example has one significant advantage: Fed Chair Powell was in charge of the Fed.  It's an example of what he actually did.  The market expects no recession or a mild recession, which also fits the 2018-2019 gap of 7 months.  Applying that to March 2023 gives an Oct 2023 lowering of rates - which could stimulate stocks.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #452 on: December 16, 2022, 02:36:13 PM »
There's a decent amount of evidence coming in to suggest a recession could have arrived early:

1) The S&P global PMI showed rapid deterioration in manufacturing, business activity, and composite indices. The chart looks very pre-recessionary.
Quote
...business activity fell at the joint-sharpest rate since May 2020.
https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/2449edd6ab0a49b9bd0103ecc24a28b3
Quote
"Business conditions are worsening as 2022 draws to a close, with a steep fall in the PMI indicative of GDP contracting in the fourth quarter at an annualized rate of around 1.5%," said Chris Williamson, chief business economist at S&P Global Market Intelligence.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-market-live-news-updates-december-16-125058708.html

2) Inflation is falling, despite relatively low interest rates 2-3% below CPI and deep in stimulative territory. Maybe it's not that the Fed is beating inflation, it's that inflation is doing what it typically does as we head into recession. Asking how inflation is falling when policy is still stimulative might be missing the point if inflation is falling due to recession.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL#0

3) Retail sales seem to be going DOWN into the Christmas season(!) contrary to my earlier expectations. Also, retail employment seems to be falling.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RSXFS
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USTRADE

4) Long-term yields are falling, as investors pile into duration. The thinking here is that demand for safe-haven treasuries is about to go up and interest rates are about to go down. The 10y treasury yield has fallen from 4.22% on 11/7 to 3.44% yesterday. TLT has gained 13%. ZROZ is up about 24% from its lows. More gains could be coming for high-duration bonds.
https://home.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/TextView?type=daily_treasury_yield_curve&field_tdr_date_value=2022

5)
The last time the 10y/2y yield curve inverted by -0.79% or more on a falling trend, like it is now, was May 1981 (at -0.9%). A severe 16-month recession started 2 months later in July 1981 that led to a 3.1% overall increase in unemployment.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T10Y2Y

6) The current 2.3% personal savings rate has only been lower one month in the recorded history of that metric: July 2005. We have to be at a natural limit for this number, and people are going to have to cut back their spending soon. To think about this in terms of averages, how many people in your neighborhood must have a negative savings rate to make up for one mustachian and pull the average down to 2.3%???
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PSAVERT

7) Natural gas prices are doing what they did in 2000 and 2008, though they gave a couple of false signals between those years. I think a spike and collapse in the NG price means something when it co-occurs with some of the other recessionary metrics. UNG is not a bad candidate for bear spreads if you think a recession is on the way. I'm looking at doing a way-OTM bear spread with 399 days to expiration that would probably yield 32%.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/natural-gas

8) The housing industry
is in recession. Single-family home starts are falling like they've rarely ever done except when there has been an imminent recession in the broader economy.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HOUST1F

----------

On the other hand, there are several reasons to think the recession isn't here yet.

Initial claims are still low. It's not a recession if people aren't losing their jobs!!!
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ICSA
This may be related to the backlog of open jobs Jerome Powell has been talking about. Many of those who are geting laid off hop into another job before they can even bother to file a UI claim. But of course this also sends a false signal to the Fed about the effect of their policy on unemployment, because maybe jobs are evaporating and claims will skyrocket once that slack runs out.

The Fed's GDPNow bot estimates GDP growth of about 2.8%, although this estimate is falling. https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/gdpnow

The NFCI says financial conditions have been loosening for the past several weeks, and firms have better access to capital than they did in October when the NFCI peaked at -0.029. The NFCI is a great recession predictor, but we should keep in mind it peaked at -0.024 in 2000, and never broke through the zero barrier just before that recession. Also, the NFCI spent much of the mid-late 1980s spewing false recession predictions amid the S&L scandal.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/NFCI

--------------------

Here's what happens next:
The yield curves will rapidly un-invert right before or as we enter recession. Aside from the early 1980s, this has occurred at the start of modern recessions because short-duration rates fell faster than long-duration rates.


Unfortunately, this outcome is a lot less clear as an investment theme than 2022's simple bet that rates will go higher. Short-duration yields are harder to wager on, outside of futures markets. You could go long TLT or ZROZ instead of short.

However it's not clear to me whether other investors will continue to expect rate cuts if inflation remains in the 4-7% range during the recession. Then, even if for example the FFR was dramatically cut to 3%, it's not clear whether 10-year yields would go up or down from the current 3.44%. Either way - up or down - we'd end up with an un-inverted yield curve.

If the recession is coming sooner rather than later, as the reasons above suggest, then we could go through a long period of recession before the Fed worked up the confidence to cut rates for the first time. In the event of a 1Q2023 recession start date, we might have rate hikes continuing until March 2023, and a first rate cut in 1Q2024, contingent upon inflation being below the FFR. Such a timeline would be consistent with the Powell Fed's historical lags in action.

In contrast, if the recession comes later rather than sooner, then the Fed will have reached peak rates, we will have seen inflation fall a long way before the recession hits, and the Fed will be able to be more active.

What happens after the recession:
In 1992, 2003, and 2009, the post-recession 10y/2y yield curve bounced from negative to above +2.5%. For that to happen again, and for the longstanding pattern of long-duration yields falling less than short-duration yields to continue this time, then short-duration yields might need to fall to near zero again. I.e. today's 3.44% ten year yield minus 2.5% would predict a 2-year yield of <1%, and that's before we account for the longer-duration yield falling as it usually does in a recession. The TIPS/treasuries market is predicting a future where a near-zero FFR makes sense. The 5-year inflation breakeven is 2.21% and falling!
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T5YIE

The bond market is really thinking this is 2008. The stock market remains hopeful, judging by the S&P500 having a PE ratio 25% above the long-term mean, despite plentiful recession warnings.

I'm mostly positioned in a bunch of 6-month treasuries, in addition to some of the long-duration corporate bonds I picked up near the bottom in November, and some SPDN. My goal at this point is to shift into growth stocks, financials, and/or preferreds maybe 3 quarters into the recession. By that time, recession will be obvious in the data and it'll be a buyer's market.

I regret that I didn't load up on more long-duration corporate bonds in late October and early November rather than committing to DCAing into them. The bonds I did buy are up 7%-17% I was hoping the yields would return, but given the recent CPI and economic data I suspect we may have seen the peak for long-duration yield.


Mr. Green

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #453 on: December 16, 2022, 08:47:40 PM »
If a recession does come sooner, and hang around longer, because inflation remains elevated, I think the housing market will really take a beating.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #454 on: December 16, 2022, 10:06:49 PM »
If a recession does come sooner, and hang around longer, because inflation remains elevated, I think the housing market will really take a beating.
Everyone seems to be comforting themselves with talk about how lending standards are higher now. I don’t see the translation between that statement and why people will keep paying the mortgage after they lose their jobs, when negative equity is on a national scale instead only hitting Las Vegas and the coasts, when the average person has amassed minimal savings for months, and when inflation has raised their other costs beyond expectations. Good credit or no, it’s sometimes time to walk away from that ranch house bought for $750k and 5% down at the height of the bubble.

It’s also odd to hear people talk about how the banking system is unsinkable this time. Is it? Or did we just spend a decade deregulating and creating a shadow banking sector? What exactly happens when NLY becomes insolvent or can no longer borrow? Stuff blows up is what happens.

Mr. Green

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #455 on: December 17, 2022, 06:54:54 AM »
If a recession does come sooner, and hang around longer, because inflation remains elevated, I think the housing market will really take a beating.
Everyone seems to be comforting themselves with talk about how lending standards are higher now. I don’t see the translation between that statement and why people will keep paying the mortgage after they lose their jobs, when negative equity is on a national scale instead only hitting Las Vegas and the coasts, when the average person has amassed minimal savings for months, and when inflation has raised their other costs beyond expectations. Good credit or no, it’s sometimes time to walk away from that ranch house bought for $750k and 5% down at the height of the bubble.

It’s also odd to hear people talk about how the banking system is unsinkable this time. Is it? Or did we just spend a decade deregulating and creating a shadow banking sector? What exactly happens when NLY becomes insolvent or can no longer borrow? Stuff blows up is what happens.
The smart bankers at Lehman Brothers comforted themselves right up to the point where they walked out of the building with no job because their company didn't exist anymore.

wageslave23

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #456 on: December 19, 2022, 06:04:30 PM »
They need to end the <20% down mortgages.  Housing prices fluctuate more than 5 or 10%. And/or have reserve requirements such that the lenders can stay afloat even if 50% of their 10% down mortgages default  and 90% of their 5% down mortgages default.  These policies were everyone can and should own a home were built on a fairy tale.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #457 on: December 19, 2022, 09:02:35 PM »
They need to end the <20% down mortgages.  Housing prices fluctuate more than 5 or 10%. And/or have reserve requirements such that the lenders can stay afloat even if 50% of their 10% down mortgages default  and 90% of their 5% down mortgages default.  These policies were everyone can and should own a home were built on a fairy tale.

In theory, PMI requirements should cover the lenders who made loans with low down payments. In practice bad loans with PMI only recovered about 12-13% more than uninsured loans, and recoveries below 40% are still common.
https://www.urban.org/research/publication/mortgage-insurance-data-glance-2021

Better underwriting standards doesn’t fully solve the problem of vulnerable financial institutions if more and more loans are being done with very low down payments. I also wonder what happens to housing if PMI insurers like ESNT, MTG, NMIH, or RDN go under or stop issuing policies.


gary3411

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #458 on: December 19, 2022, 09:17:55 PM »
Thank God some people have finally brought up supply side. Taylor rule doesn't take these into account. Whether some fed official, in the 70s, thought their inflation was transitory due to supply issues and failed to raise rates appropriately to bring down inflation, means nothing.

We don't need historical evidence to deduce that supply constraints are and have increased inflation over the past 12-18 months. How much, not if, is the debate.

Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%. For some reason, someone in this thread keeps trying to make a point that the current fed policy is stimulative based on Taylor rule (dumb anyway), while looking at y/y numbers only and not m/m! In other words, not looking in real time! Based on those m/m cpi numbers, fed policy is absolutely currently restrictive and NOT stimulative. And this is not even taking into account QT!!

Finally, someone mentioned how we should take Powell's words as gospel when he says they will not decrease rates in 2023. Hello? Remember when he said they would not even think about thinking about raising rates until 2024? Obviously his 'plan' right now is to not decrease rates in 2023. But they will adjust when and if they need to, and the market, I believe rationally, is expecting us to head straight into a recession here quickly, with dropping FFR to follow.

EverythingisNew

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #459 on: December 20, 2022, 08:09:42 AM »
I’ve been following this thread since the start and love the conversation. @gary3411 yes I also think you can’t take Powell’s forecasts as gospel truth. One of their tools is foreword guidance so big language allows them to fight inflation without raising the rate to their forecasted numbers.

One thing I’ve been thinking while reading this thread is, what about inflations reassessment of values? Since 2020 total inflation is about 15%. If you take the S&P 500’s price at 2020 open (3257) and multiple by 15% that is 3745.5. This is the value of the pre-pandemic S&P 500 in today’s dollars without any economic advancement. We’ve already been below this number in this bear market. Anything below this I would say is a deal. Do you think we should account for inflation on the total stock market? If not we might be looking for a price that’s too low.

wageslave23

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #460 on: December 20, 2022, 01:37:45 PM »
I’ve been following this thread since the start and love the conversation. @gary3411 yes I also think you can’t take Powell’s forecasts as gospel truth. One of their tools is foreword guidance so big language allows them to fight inflation without raising the rate to their forecasted numbers.

One thing I’ve been thinking while reading this thread is, what about inflations reassessment of values? Since 2020 total inflation is about 15%. If you take the S&P 500’s price at 2020 open (3257) and multiple by 15% that is 3745.5. This is the value of the pre-pandemic S&P 500 in today’s dollars without any economic advancement. We’ve already been below this number in this bear market. Anything below this I would say is a deal. Do you think we should account for inflation on the total stock market? If not we might be looking for a price that’s too low.

At the start of 2020 the market was towards the end of one of the greatest periods in its history. So 3700 is an interesting number but I'd call it the upper bound of where the market should be at if generally favorable conditions. And we definitely don't have favorable conditions currently.  So 20% off of 3700 is about 3000. I would expect the market to fluctuate within that range in the future.  Based on your premise.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #461 on: December 20, 2022, 01:58:41 PM »
We don't need historical evidence to deduce that supply constraints are and have increased inflation over the past 12-18 months. How much, not if, is the debate.
I haven't seen shortages on store shelves since 2021, and even then shortages affected only a handful of items. In 2022 there have been no gas lines, no maximum quantity limits, or even any hot gift trends that are sold out everywhere. Despite the headlines, the car lots in my city have had vehicles for sale the whole time.

Maybe the Ever Given being wedged in the Suez Canal was the true cause of enduring inflation, but all the little supply side causes we can come up with seem a lot smaller than the stimulus checks people received.
Quote
Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%. For some reason, someone in this thread keeps trying to make a point that the current fed policy is stimulative based on Taylor rule (dumb anyway), while looking at y/y numbers only and not m/m! In other words, not looking in real time! Based on those m/m cpi numbers, fed policy is absolutely currently restrictive and NOT stimulative. And this is not even taking into account QT!!
Are you saying the federal funds rate went into neutral territory in June 2022 at 1% or July at 1.75%? That's when the lower monthly CPI numbers started. 

I've never heard of an economic model where overnight lending rates <2% are prescribed to end an outbreak of 9% inflation. You'll have to tell me more about how 1% is stimulative but 2% is restrictive, in a full-employment economy with high inflation.

Also, if the effect of inflation falling is the result of by two causes - interest rates and QT, then how does the effect not take into account QT?

Quote
Finally, someone mentioned how we should take Powell's words as gospel when he says they will not decrease rates in 2023. Hello? Remember when he said they would not even think about thinking about raising rates until 2024? Obviously his 'plan' right now is to not decrease rates in 2023. But they will adjust when and if they need to, and the market, I believe rationally, is expecting us to head straight into a recession here quickly, with dropping FFR to follow.
I'm inclined to agree with this line of reasoning. Yet there were also a whole lotta people who ignored Powell's direct statements between November 2021 and November 2022 and were utterly shocked to see their portfolios decimated when the FOMC did what Powell said it was going to do - keep raising rates. They can't say they weren't warned.

I think a sudden recession or economic crisis is different than a relatively slow-moving inflation problem. When the recession strikes, the Fed can change its direction a lot faster, as it did in 2020. Past guidance will become less valuable as the situation becomes more urgent.

Care to take a guess at the terminal rate, the recession start month, the degree of rate cuts during the recession, or whether inflation is going to come back afterwards? "Data source, models, and assumptions" are welcome, in particular as they pertain to the future.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #462 on: December 20, 2022, 05:25:55 PM »
Since 2020 total inflation is about 15%. If you take the S&P 500’s price at 2020 open (3257) and multiple by 15% that is 3745.5. This is the value of the pre-pandemic S&P 500 in today’s dollars without any economic advancement. We’ve already been below this number in this bear market. Anything below this I would say is a deal.
Why do you think S&P 500 performance should be measured relative to inflation?  Historically stocks have outperformed inflation but with high volatility.  It is very likely the losses return to gains later, but that is because stocks tend to recover.  It's not really related to inflation.

Another example to make that point: from 2012 to now, the S&P 500 (using SPY) rose from $127.76/sh to $380.54/sh.  The market's return of +198% is far above the total inflation since 2012, so would you conclude the market is grossly overpriced until it drops to 1/3rd it's curernt value?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/history?p=SPY

gary3411

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #463 on: December 20, 2022, 06:33:29 PM »
I'll guess a terminal rate of 4.75-5%. Recession start of q1 2023 (not sure if gdp will actually be negative this quarter, but unemployment will start to tick up by the end of it.

Not sure how long it'll take until Fed cuts once this starts. Maybe theyll try ending QT first.

I'm pretty certain inflation is done with unless we get significant QE.

EverythingisNew

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #464 on: December 20, 2022, 10:47:52 PM »
Since 2020 total inflation is about 15%. If you take the S&P 500’s price at 2020 open (3257) and multiple by 15% that is 3745.5. This is the value of the pre-pandemic S&P 500 in today’s dollars without any economic advancement. We’ve already been below this number in this bear market. Anything below this I would say is a deal.
Why do you think S&P 500 performance should be measured relative to inflation?  Historically stocks have outperformed inflation but with high volatility.  It is very likely the losses return to gains later, but that is because stocks tend to recover.  It's not really related to inflation.

Another example to make that point: from 2012 to now, the S&P 500 (using SPY) rose from $127.76/sh to $380.54/sh.  The market's return of +198% is far above the total inflation since 2012, so would you conclude the market is grossly overpriced until it drops to 1/3rd it's curernt value?

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/history?p=SPY

I just mean that inflation is a factor in S&P 500 valuation. There are many more factors too!

No I don’t think the S&P500 should drop to 2012 valuation adjusted for inflation because there is also economic growth, billions of hours or work and goods produced, and of course speculation (which is the difficult one to forecast and makes highs and lows).

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #465 on: December 21, 2022, 07:58:32 AM »
Interesting concept. If stocks are a product, and the product benefit is providing a stream of expected future income, then a sudden bout of inflation might reduce the value of that nominal stream of income and therefore of the product.

As an extreme example, suppose you owned a company that produces a flat $X earnings per year working on a contract. The local currency's purchasing power drops 20%, but the company's contract keeps their earnings nominally the same. How much less is the company worth, in the local currency, now that the company is producing earnings that have a fraction of the purchasing power?

My answer would be that the value hasn't changed in nominal terms, and should have declined 20% in real terms, unless the return on other investments became more or less attractive. Usually economists talk about stocks going down in response to interest rate hikes because more-attractive bond yields cause some investors to sell their stocks and move into bonds. In the simplified example above, the company was unable to raise prices and also didn't experience any cost increases as a result of the inflation. In reality of course, companies are raising their prices and they are experiencing higher costs. The change in their fair value comes from (a) any delays in raising prices to meet higher costs or in experiencing higher costs, (b) changes in the discount rate used to calculate a present value of their future earnings, (c) the rate of return of competing investments, and (d) changes to estimated demand due to inflation.

achvfi

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #466 on: December 21, 2022, 08:07:20 AM »
An interesting thread. So much great information here. Thanks OP.

Is it true that inflation is down to 2-3% in last three of months now.

ChickenStash

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #467 on: December 21, 2022, 08:12:05 AM »
We don't need historical evidence to deduce that supply constraints are and have increased inflation over the past 12-18 months. How much, not if, is the debate.
I haven't seen shortages on store shelves since 2021, and even then shortages affected only a handful of items. In 2022 there have been no gas lines, no maximum quantity limits, or even any hot gift trends that are sold out everywhere. Despite the headlines, the car lots in my city have had vehicles for sale the whole time.

Maybe the Ever Given being wedged in the Suez Canal was the true cause of enduring inflation, but all the little supply side causes we can come up with seem a lot smaller than the stimulus checks people received.


It's purely anecdata, of course, but I still see "temporary shortage" quantity limit tags pop up on items at the grocery store and there were still some occasional bare sections of shelving in early 2022. It's definitely less than in 2021 but it still happened.

On the business side, we're still seeing longer lead times for ordering new parts and we've had many incidents where RMA'ed replacement parts that are supposed to arrive the same or the next day are delayed weeks waiting for inventory. Again, not as bad as in the thick of 2021 but still happening.

BicycleB

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #468 on: December 21, 2022, 10:41:30 AM »

Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%.

An interesting thread. So much great information here. Thanks OP.

Is it true that inflation is down to 2-3% in last three of months now.

Good question, @achvfi. I was wondering too.

@gary3411, what inflation statistic is showing 2.4%? Can you give a couple of sources for that?

I thought I'd been reading things like CPI year on year being over 7%. But when I put your chosen period into Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI Inflation Calculator (link below), meaning June 2022 to November 2022, it responds that $100.00 in June is now $100.47, which I think implies inflation of about 1.2% annualized (it's less than .1% monthly for the five months) - not just lower than what I thought, actually lower than what you said, if I'm reading correctly. This is really interesting stuff! What statistic and source are you using?

https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

BicycleB

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #469 on: December 21, 2022, 11:40:20 AM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf

I haven't had time to read it yet, but the executive summary states "today's inflation is largely driven by supply shocks and sectoral demand shifts, not by excess aggregate demand. Monetary policy, then, is too blunt an instrument because it will greatly reduce inflation only at the cost of unnecessarily high unemployment, with severely adverse distributive consequences". They assert that current policy is using "excessively rapid and large increases in interest rates." Much of the paper discusses alternate techniques for reducing inflation, with the goal of less damage to the poor as well as to the overall economy.

If their suggestions are not implemented, apparently the base case, their analysis may imply questions for this thread like:
1. how high will the interest rates have to go before stopping inflation?
2. will the distributive effect help stockholders? Maybe bondholders? (I think the authors are saying income will flow away from the poor)
3. when will inflation get lower?
4. will it stay low or rebound?
5. will episodes occur where predictions based on monetary policy diverge from monetarists' predictions, and can a careful observer predict them in advance?

Perhaps some readers of this thread will be able to make headway. I would comment more if I had something more specific to offer.

PS. Fwiw, authors do comment that a wage-price spiral is unlikely. They also mention that they calculate an annual inflation rate of 2.8% across four recent months, based partly on BLS CPI, remarking that this is consistent with their identified causes and inconsistent with "the standard macroeconomic demand-side analysis."

6. Um - is the Taylor Rule part of this standard macroeconomic demand-side analysis they speak of?

Under "Key Takeaways" (page 6), they do mention "There are fiscal and other measures that can and should be taken to alleviate particular sectoral inflationary pressures, and that are more likely to be effective than broad-based interest rate increases." I have questions:

7. a. Does fiscal mean things like government spending?
    b. If so, is that a thing that the federal govt would do instead of the Fed?
    c. Deeper in the article, what measures do the authors suggest?
8. If yes to 7a,
    a. what actions would we look for (maybe the ones in 6c?), and
    b. what effects should we predict if we see them?
    c. for that matter, what effects should we predict if we DON'T see them??
    d. are any of them already in the recently passed short term budget bill?


 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 01:22:42 PM by BicycleB »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #470 on: December 21, 2022, 02:25:06 PM »
We'll be arguing about whether the inflation of 2021-2022 was due to supply-side or demand-side factors for a long time. It'll eventually become a political narrative because it ties back into political questions about the importance of businesses vs consumers, and the proper role of government in the economy.

Really, both factors co-occurred. Production was interrupted at the same time helicopter money was distributed to consumers. The production interruptions would have been a lot worse had the helicopter money not been dropped because a lot of businesses were barely hanging on. Both factors are largely history now.

Yet I remain reluctant to join Team Transitory because:

1) Trillions of dollars of additional money supply are still out there in the economy. M1 went from $4T in Feb. 2020 to $20T now. QT has barely made a dent in this number. I'm no Milton Friedman monetarist, but when you 5X the amount of raw currency in existence, in a matter of months, it raises my eyebrow. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

2) Wages have not yet caught up with the increases in prices we've seen so far. Either people just stay poorer forever or wages equalize with price trends in the future.

3) China's possible reopening could drive commodities prices right back up to where they were at the start of last summer. So far the U.S. CPI has had a lot more in common with the S&P GSCI commodities index than anything related to monetary policy. This also suggests why inflation is a global issue, not one limited to the U.S.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/gsci

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #471 on: December 21, 2022, 07:17:23 PM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf
...

PS. Fwiw, authors do comment that a wage-price spiral is unlikely. They also mention that they calculate an annual inflation rate of 2.8% across four recent months, based partly on BLS CPI, remarking that this is consistent with their identified causes and inconsistent with "the standard macroeconomic demand-side analysis."
Joeseph Stiglitz is a Nobel-prize winning professor of Economics, so his voice should carry a lot of weight.  So I'm trying to understand the following claim from the paper, on the subject of a wage price spiral:
"Nominal wage growth has already come down markedly"

I found the NY Fed data confusing - they track monthly wage changes, which becomes a highly volatile graph that doesn't seem to go anywhere.  I see some data showing 2-3% increases, which makes no sense.  And a graph of "mean" (average) wages with a 14.6% increase that is biased towards the highest earners - median wages are more insightful.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/sce/labor#/experiences-earnings1

The St Louis Fed:
Quote
As reported last week, average hourly earnings for all private employees in October increased by 4.7% from a year earlier.
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/nov/tracking-wage-inflation-real-time

Atlanta Fed tracks "three-month moving average of median wage growth", which for hourly workers is about 6%.
https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

Both of the above exactly matched what Larry Summers has said: 5% over 12 months, 6% over 3 months.  He added 7% (or maybe 7.5%) over 1 month, which shows a pattern of increasing wages.  To me, with CPI inflation at 7.1% and falling quickly, it looks like inflation is falling below wage growth.

Ultimately Fed Chair Powell directly contradicts the "Stiglitz inflation report" (my naming).  In the past FOMC meeting, Fed Chair Powell said:
Quote
... the labor market remains extremely tight, with the
unemployment rate near a 50-year low, job vacancies still very high, and wage growth elevated.
(first indent on page 2)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCpresconf20221214.pdf

Fed Chair Powell used the term "wage growth elevated", which matches the data.  I don't understand what data Mr Stiglitz is using to arrive at the opposite conclusion.

badger1988

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #472 on: December 21, 2022, 09:44:18 PM »
1) Trillions of dollars of additional money supply are still out there in the economy. M1 went from $4T in Feb. 2020 to $20T now. QT has barely made a dent in this number. I'm no Milton Friedman monetarist, but when you 5X the amount of raw currency in existence, in a matter of months, it raises my eyebrow. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

The definition of M1 changed to include savings accounts in April 2020, which accounts for the majority of that 5x increase:

https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2021/05/savings-are-now-more-liquid-and-part-of-m1-money/?utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=fredblog

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #473 on: December 22, 2022, 06:35:16 AM »
1) Trillions of dollars of additional money supply are still out there in the economy. M1 went from $4T in Feb. 2020 to $20T now. QT has barely made a dent in this number. I'm no Milton Friedman monetarist, but when you 5X the amount of raw currency in existence, in a matter of months, it raises my eyebrow. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

The definition of M1 changed to include savings accounts in April 2020, which accounts for the majority of that 5x increase:

https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2021/05/savings-are-now-more-liquid-and-part-of-m1-money/?utm_source=series_page&utm_medium=related_content&utm_term=related_resources&utm_campaign=fredblog

Thanks @badger1988 !

PDXTabs

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #474 on: December 22, 2022, 10:30:28 AM »

Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%.

An interesting thread. So much great information here. Thanks OP.

Is it true that inflation is down to 2-3% in last three of months now.

Good question, @achvfi. I was wondering too.

@gary3411, what inflation statistic is showing 2.4%? Can you give a couple of sources for that?

I'm not sure what @gary3411 is in reference to.

But if you look at the recent PCE data you could tell a story that the last four months of  PCE month-over-month growth have been -0.1, 0.3, 0.3, and 0.3. Which I think we could calculate 0.999*1.003*1.003*1.003 = 1.008, 0.8% in four month which is 3.2% 2.4% annualized. Everyone is welcome to double check my math on that.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2022, 10:38:37 AM by PDXTabs »

maizefolk

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #475 on: December 22, 2022, 10:33:08 AM »

Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%.

An interesting thread. So much great information here. Thanks OP.

Is it true that inflation is down to 2-3% in last three of months now.

Good question, @achvfi. I was wondering too.

@gary3411, what inflation statistic is showing 2.4%? Can you give a couple of sources for that?

I'm not sure what @gary3411 is in reference to.

But if you look at the recent PCE data you could tell a story that the last four months of  PCE month-over-month growth have been -0.1, 0.3, 0.3, and 0.3. Which I think we could calculate 0.999*1.003*1.003*1.003 = 1.008, 0.8% in four month which is 3.2% annualized. Everyone is welcome to double check my math on that.

My math agrees on 0.8% inflation over the past four months, but annualizing that I get roughly 2.4% rather than 3.2% (1.008^3 = 1.0242).

PDXTabs

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #476 on: December 22, 2022, 10:38:09 AM »

Also, over the last 5 months we have had inflation at an annualized rate of 2.4%.

An interesting thread. So much great information here. Thanks OP.

Is it true that inflation is down to 2-3% in last three of months now.

Good question, @achvfi. I was wondering too.

@gary3411, what inflation statistic is showing 2.4%? Can you give a couple of sources for that?

I'm not sure what @gary3411 is in reference to.

But if you look at the recent PCE data you could tell a story that the last four months of  PCE month-over-month growth have been -0.1, 0.3, 0.3, and 0.3. Which I think we could calculate 0.999*1.003*1.003*1.003 = 1.008, 0.8% in four month which is 3.2% annualized. Everyone is welcome to double check my math on that.

My math agrees on 0.8% inflation over the past four months, but annualizing that I get roughly 2.4% rather than 3.2% (1.008^3 = 1.0242).

You're right! The 3 is right next to the 4 on my keyboard.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #477 on: December 22, 2022, 11:20:16 AM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf
...

PS. Fwiw, authors do comment that a wage-price spiral is unlikely. They also mention that they calculate an annual inflation rate of 2.8% across four recent months, based partly on BLS CPI, remarking that this is consistent with their identified causes and inconsistent with "the standard macroeconomic demand-side analysis."
Joeseph Stiglitz is a Nobel-prize winning professor of Economics, so his voice should carry a lot of weight.  So I'm trying to understand the following claim from the paper, on the subject of a wage price spiral:
"Nominal wage growth has already come down markedly"

I found the NY Fed data confusing - they track monthly wage changes, which becomes a highly volatile graph that doesn't seem to go anywhere.  I see some data showing 2-3% increases, which makes no sense.  And a graph of "mean" (average) wages with a 14.6% increase that is biased towards the highest earners - median wages are more insightful.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/sce/labor#/experiences-earnings1

The St Louis Fed:
Quote
As reported last week, average hourly earnings for all private employees in October increased by 4.7% from a year earlier.
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/nov/tracking-wage-inflation-real-time

Atlanta Fed tracks "three-month moving average of median wage growth", which for hourly workers is about 6%.
https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

Both of the above exactly matched what Larry Summers has said: 5% over 12 months, 6% over 3 months.  He added 7% (or maybe 7.5%) over 1 month, which shows a pattern of increasing wages.  To me, with CPI inflation at 7.1% and falling quickly, it looks like inflation is falling below wage growth.

Ultimately Fed Chair Powell directly contradicts the "Stiglitz inflation report" (my naming).  In the past FOMC meeting, Fed Chair Powell said:
Quote
... the labor market remains extremely tight, with the
unemployment rate near a 50-year low, job vacancies still very high, and wage growth elevated.
(first indent on page 2)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCpresconf20221214.pdf

Fed Chair Powell used the term "wage growth elevated", which matches the data.  I don't understand what data Mr Stiglitz is using to arrive at the opposite conclusion.

I think everybody is correct that "nominal wage growth has already come down markedly" and also wage growth is elevated. Annualized wage growth reached 5.6% in March and has trended down to 5.09% in November. We could talk monthly data, but the data get very noisy at that resolution.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003#0

Maybe Stiglitz is making a bit deal out of a relatively small deceleration in wages?

More to the point, the annualized growth of CPI remains far above the annualized growth of wages, but CPI is also decelerating at a faster pace than wages. When CPI growth (inflation) is higher than wage growth, that reflects declining living standards.


We can hypothesize about CPI falling below wage growth at some time in the future, but as the chart shows the gap remains large and we still have a long way to go before that happens. We should also keep in mind there is no rule saying wages and prices must keep up with each other.

In the long view, it's still a good time to be alive. If we set 1/1/2018 as our index=100 month, we can see that wage growth is actually ahead of inflation on that timeframe.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #478 on: December 22, 2022, 11:45:45 AM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf
...

Thanks for the share and comments.  With today's economic data however, we are still seeing historically low initial unemployment claims as well as low continuing unemployment numbers.  There was also a surprise to the upside on Q3 US GDP (3.2% vs 2.9% expected).
Pretty much all of the economic data is still pointing to an economy that is firing on all cylinders.  Surely if the Fed has 'overtightened' we would start to see some weakness somewhere, but so far only inflation seems to be going down...  Tomorrow is the next PCE release, fingers crossed!

To me, this paper just shows how little economists seem to know about the current inflationary situation, where it is headed, and how best to address it.  Everyone is bracing for recession which is typically a self-fulfilling prophecy, so even when we have the data economists will still be arguing over who was right.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #479 on: December 22, 2022, 02:17:29 PM »
Here's an interesting pattern to watch:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4565878-the-coming-plunge-in-short-term-interest-rates

TL;DR: The 2-year treasury yield typically turns downward 2-4 quarters before the first Federal Funds Rate cut. In other words, a downturn in the 2y yield is predictive of a cut to the FFR.

Quote
a) the 2-year yield reversed downward in Q4-2018 and the FFR followed in mid-2019, b) the 2-year yield reversed downward in mid-2006 and the FFR followed in mid-2007, and c) the 2-year yield reversed downward in Q2-2000 and the FFR followed in Q4-2000.

When the 2-year T-Note yield reversed downward in 2018, 2006 and 2000, the Fed had no idea that within 6-12 months it would be slashing the FFR.
The author is too modest to mention it but the pattern also held in 1990, 1995, and 1997.

The 2 year yield seems to have started a vague downtrend of about 25 basis points so far: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=XW0E

Also note that cuts to the FFR are often associated with the beginning of a recession. So all of this interest rate pattern stuff is best for orienting oneself about where we are in the business cycle, not as buy / sell signals.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #480 on: December 22, 2022, 04:09:23 PM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf
...

PS. Fwiw, authors do comment that a wage-price spiral is unlikely. They also mention that they calculate an annual inflation rate of 2.8% across four recent months, based partly on BLS CPI, remarking that this is consistent with their identified causes and inconsistent with "the standard macroeconomic demand-side analysis."
Joeseph Stiglitz is a Nobel-prize winning professor of Economics, so his voice should carry a lot of weight.  So I'm trying to understand the following claim from the paper, on the subject of a wage price spiral:
"Nominal wage growth has already come down markedly"

I found the NY Fed data confusing - they track monthly wage changes, which becomes a highly volatile graph that doesn't seem to go anywhere.  I see some data showing 2-3% increases, which makes no sense.  And a graph of "mean" (average) wages with a 14.6% increase that is biased towards the highest earners - median wages are more insightful.
https://www.newyorkfed.org/microeconomics/sce/labor#/experiences-earnings1

The St Louis Fed:
Quote
As reported last week, average hourly earnings for all private employees in October increased by 4.7% from a year earlier.
https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2022/nov/tracking-wage-inflation-real-time

Atlanta Fed tracks "three-month moving average of median wage growth", which for hourly workers is about 6%.
https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

Both of the above exactly matched what Larry Summers has said: 5% over 12 months, 6% over 3 months.  He added 7% (or maybe 7.5%) over 1 month, which shows a pattern of increasing wages.  To me, with CPI inflation at 7.1% and falling quickly, it looks like inflation is falling below wage growth.

Ultimately Fed Chair Powell directly contradicts the "Stiglitz inflation report" (my naming).  In the past FOMC meeting, Fed Chair Powell said:
Quote
... the labor market remains extremely tight, with the
unemployment rate near a 50-year low, job vacancies still very high, and wage growth elevated.
(first indent on page 2)
https://www.federalreserve.gov/mediacenter/files/FOMCpresconf20221214.pdf

Fed Chair Powell used the term "wage growth elevated", which matches the data.  I don't understand what data Mr Stiglitz is using to arrive at the opposite conclusion.

I think everybody is correct that "nominal wage growth has already come down markedly" and also wage growth is elevated. Annualized wage growth reached 5.6% in March and has trended down to 5.09% in November. We could talk monthly data, but the data get very noisy at that resolution.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003#0

Maybe Stiglitz is making a bit deal out of a relatively small deceleration in wages?

More to the point, the annualized growth of CPI remains far above the annualized growth of wages, but CPI is also decelerating at a faster pace than wages. When CPI growth (inflation) is higher than wage growth, that reflects declining living standards.


We can hypothesize about CPI falling below wage growth at some time in the future, but as the chart shows the gap remains large and we still have a long way to go before that happens. We should also keep in mind there is no rule saying wages and prices must keep up with each other.
You are only looking at wage growth 12 months at a time.  That graph shows nothing happenijng, with annual wage growth of 4.9% to 5.6%, because it does not look at the most recent 3 months or latest month of wage data.  Wouldn't it be too late if wages beat CPI for the entire 12 month period?

The other flaw in that graph is using "average" instead of "median" wages.  For example, the average NW of Americans is $748,000 ... but the median NW of Americans is $121,700.  Averages are biased to the richest or highest earners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/average-american-net-worth

Here is a graph of 12 month "median" hourly wage growth, showing the median wage increased 6.2%.  If you select 3 month "median" in this graph, you get 6.4%.  This graph also helps show that wages spiked and then fell, which seems to be the trend mentioned in the Stiglitz inflation report.
https://www.atlantafed.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker

Months ago I recall Larry Summers saying he likes to look at "job switcher" wage growth.  Hourly workers changing jobs are currently getting 7.7% higher wages compared to 5.5% for those who stay (6.2% overall, 12 month data).  To see how fast the data is changing, here are snapshots every 3 months:

date ... job stay or go ...  change
2021 May ... 3.1 vs 3.9
2021 Aug ... 3.1 vs 4.1 ...  +0.0 vs +0.2
2021 Nov ... 3.2 vs 4.3 ... +0.1 vs +0.2
2022 Feb ... 3.8 vs 5.0 ...  +0.6 vs +0.7
2022 May ... 4.5 vs 6.0 ... +0.7 vs +1.0
2022 Aug ... 5.0 vs 6.9 ...  +0.5 vs +0.9
latest (Nov) ... 5.5 vs 7.7 ... +0.5 vs +0.8

Notice the lag in 2021, where job switchers got +0.4% ahead while job stayers had just started to catch on, with +0.1%.  I'm guessing that is why Harvard Economist Larry Summers likes that as a leading indicator.  I wonder if that pace will slow down in 2023, or keep pressing towards +10%?

With the current trends, overall median wages should exceed CPI inflation within a few months.  Job stayers have increased their demands +0.5 for the past two periods, leaving them at 5.5% now, and suggesting 6.0% in Feb 2023.  But I think the size of the gap with job switchers (2.2%) will motivate slightly higher demands of 0.7, leaving them at 6.2% Feb 2023.  That would mean about 7% median wage growth in Feb 2023.

I'm assuming we don't get overall job cuts in the next few months.

BicycleB

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #481 on: December 23, 2022, 03:11:06 PM »
Joseph Stiglitz and Ira Regmi recently published a 94 page article discussing "Causes of and Responses to Today's Inflation."

https://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/RI_CausesofandResponsestoTodaysInflation_Report_202212.pdf
...

Thanks for the share and comments.  With today's economic data however, we are still seeing historically low initial unemployment claims as well as low continuing unemployment numbers.  There was also a surprise to the upside on Q3 US GDP (3.2% vs 2.9% expected).
Pretty much all of the economic data is still pointing to an economy that is firing on all cylinders.  Surely if the Fed has 'overtightened' we would start to see some weakness somewhere, but so far only inflation seems to be going down...  Tomorrow is the next PCE release, fingers crossed!

To me, this paper just shows how little economists seem to know about the current inflationary situation, where it is headed, and how best to address it.  Everyone is bracing for recession which is typically a self-fulfilling prophecy, so even when we have the data economists will still be arguing over who was right.

Looks like pattern in bold occurring even while new data show inflation moderating. Today's PCE year on year: 5.5%,  month to month 0.1%; meanwhile index of consumer sentiment rose this month to 59.7 from last month's finalized 56.8. Data in this paragraph courtesy of CNN Business, reporting at link below.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/23/economy/pce-inflation-november/index.html

I have cash. Sit tight, buy bonds or buy stocks? First world decisisons, I guess. Anyway, happy holidays to all.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2022, 03:14:38 PM by BicycleB »

dividendman

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #482 on: December 24, 2022, 09:19:25 AM »
Soft landing incoming?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #483 on: December 24, 2022, 01:58:56 PM »
Soft landing incoming?
Stranger things have happened. Look back at the metrics we've been watching on this thread and think about how bad things looked in 1994 and 2018. The late 1980s also looked bad by many metrics. The outcomes in each case were soft landings; the next recessions were years - and massive stock market gains - away.

I try to be open-minded to the possibility which seems least likely at this point. It's difficult to imagine a soft landing after the magnitude of rate hikes we've had, the magnitude of yield curve inversions we see, the savings rate that can only go up, the unemployment rate that can only go up, and the in-progress bursting of the "everything bubble". Yet we're being rigid if we don't assign at least some probability to this soft landing outcome.

Right now, I'm thinking about whether the oft-described Fed "pause" starts in February. Seriously - December could be the last rate hike and we could already be at the terminal FFR of 4.5% and just not know it yet!

Here's how it could happen: seasonally adjusted PCE comes in at 0.1% in December like it did in November. If this Christmas season is a disappointment for retailers, we could see significant mark-downs early next year. Inventory levels are through the roof, and retailers' belief that a recession is on the way could pave the way to lower prices and layoffs. The FOMC could justify a 0% rate hike in Feb. as a wait-and-see tactic in response to rapidly improving inflation metrics and concerns about economic conditions. Powell would explain that the cost of taking a slower approach at this point is outweighed by the benefit of getting additional information in the coming months, and that this pause is consistent with what he's been saying for months. What actually happens in 2023 is that wages rise faster than expenditures, which would be a continuation of the November numbers (income +0.4%, expenditures +0.1%) which translates to slow growth. https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/personal-income

Hawkish Fed governors Bullard and Mester are replaced in 2023 by two slightly less-hawkish governors, Harker and Kashkari, and the doves gain a vote from Evans. https://www.itcmarkets.com/hawk-dove-cheat-sheet-2/#post/0

You are only looking at wage growth 12 months at a time.  That graph shows nothing happenijng, with annual wage growth of 4.9% to 5.6%, because it does not look at the most recent 3 months or latest month of wage data.  Wouldn't it be too late if wages beat CPI for the entire 12 month period?
Here's a monthly PCE chart. To me, this looks like more noise than signal. Someone looking at this graph might have misinterpreted December 2021 as the end of the inflationary trend.


If we dial back the resolution to quarterly, we can see the trend from the 3rd quarter.

But so what? If we zoom back to a longer view, we can see the volatility of the metric on a quarterly basis seems to obscure our view more than the additional data help us.


I see the point about trying to spot a trend within a few months of it occurring, but using annualized data. Yet there's clearly a heightened risk of making a type 1 error (saying a trend is there when it's not) with monthly or quarterly data. Maybe the most valid thing to do is to primarily look at the trailing-12-month numbers, but also watch the monthly/quarterly trends with skepticism to think about how and why changes are happening. More importantly, that seems to be what the Fed is doing.

The best we can do is get a vague sense of where we are in the business cycle, and we shouldn't trick ourselves into thinking otherwise. If the big picture charts teach us anything, it is that inflation does not trend. There are no durable trends to find! Even in high-inflation periods, inflation can zig down for multiple quarters, and then zig back up for a few more quarters. There seems to be no clear pattern in the duration of these pseudo-trends or their magnitude.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #484 on: December 25, 2022, 12:11:51 AM »
@ChpBstrd - I also believe "inflation does not trend", but my confidence would increase if I had expert opinion or data.  If you took that from somewhere, I'd be curious to read the source.

Soft landing incoming?
Jerome Powell, is that you?  A question is the appropriate level of confidence.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #485 on: December 26, 2022, 11:13:28 AM »
@ChpBstrd - I also believe "inflation does not trend", but my confidence would increase if I had expert opinion or data.  If you took that from somewhere, I'd be curious to read the source.
You might find quotes from influential people about the maddening difficulty of predicting inflation, but I was just looking at the charts and thinking to myself "On this particular month, could I have looked back at recent history and predicted a continuation of a trend or a reversal of a trend?" I kept coming up with "no" as the answer. Even more scary, I might have made bets on the continuation of trends that were destined to reverse.

Someone should make a version of the stock market timing game except with predicting a rising or declining inflation trend.

Inflation really is a multi-year phenomenon that comes slowly into view from some very noisy data. Inflation zig-zags up, with inconsistent durations for the upswings and downswings. I can see that in the chart. So: No technical analysis on the inflation chart!

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Inflation & Interest Rates: share your data sources, models, and assumptions
« Reply #486 on: December 27, 2022, 04:27:29 AM »
@ChpBstrd - I also believe "inflation does not trend", but my confidence would increase if I had expert opinion or data.  If you took that from somewhere, I'd be curious to read the source.
You might find quotes from influential people about the maddening difficulty of predicting inflation, but I was just looking at the charts and thinking to myself "On this particular month, could I have looked back at recent history and predicted a continuation of a trend or a reversal of a trend?" I kept coming up with "no" as the answer. Even more scary, I might have made bets on the continuation of trends that were destined to reverse.
I read an article years ago which cited studies of inflation predictions.  Even the Fed couldn't predict inflation accurately, let alone economists or market watchers.  I was hoping there is an update.

If that historical information is true, it makes you wonder why the market and Fed are both so confident inflation is going to fall rapidly to 3-4% by the end of 2023.  Either everyone has suddenly gained the ability to accurately predict inflation, or the markets are in for a surprise.  Markets being surprised makes for interesting active investing (it has certainly worked for me so far this year).

Do we disagree on where wage growth is headed?  I posted data showing it accelerating, and you posted data showing it was stable.  I claim "median" is better quality data, and that job switchers are leading others into higher wages.  It also fits with a general environment of the lowest unemployment in 50 years.

Professor Jeremy Siegal ("Stocks for the Long Run")  claims wage growth is catching up to inflation, and not a wage spiral.  Although he didn't say how much catching up is needed, inflation rose above 6% about a year ago.  Inflation grew faster than wages, creating negative real wages - people could purchase less.  Now wages will grow faster than inflation... for maybe another year?

Here's another problem with a soft landing: we avoid recession and unemployment, and then still have the lowest unemployment in 50 years and wages growing quickly.  If workers have the power to get paid better, why wouldn't they?  I think wage growth won't stop without a rise in unemployment - will not stop under a soft landing scenario.  It's possible a soft landing contains the seeds of its own destruction, as wages will then drive inflation higher again.

But that's from my biased perspective: I hold put options that profit if the market falls.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Professor Jeremy Siegal ("Stocks for the Long Run")  claims wage growth is catching up to inflation, and not a wage spiral.  Although he didn't say how much catching up is needed, inflation rose above 6% about a year ago.  Inflation grew faster than wages, creating negative real wages - people could purchase less.  Now wages will grow faster than inflation... for maybe another year?
While the latest data isn't on the Atlanta Fed website yet, median wage growth slowed a little from Nov to Dec.  That reinforces Professor Siegal's point and weakens my view that wage growth continues upwards.  If wage growth comes down again in Jan, it would provide evidence of peak wage growth in the past.  With both inflation and wage growth falling, a "wage price spiral" seems unlikely - but this is early, and needs more data.

If you focus on recent CPI inflation, it was much lower in the past 5 months.  By that measure, wage growth exceeded inflation - is "catching up" in Professor Siegel's view.  But it does raise the question in my mind if inflation will be pulled up by recent wage growth, bringing them closer together.

clarkfan1979

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@ChpBstrd - I also believe "inflation does not trend", but my confidence would increase if I had expert opinion or data.  If you took that from somewhere, I'd be curious to read the source.
You might find quotes from influential people about the maddening difficulty of predicting inflation, but I was just looking at the charts and thinking to myself "On this particular month, could I have looked back at recent history and predicted a continuation of a trend or a reversal of a trend?" I kept coming up with "no" as the answer. Even more scary, I might have made bets on the continuation of trends that were destined to reverse.

Someone should make a version of the stock market timing game except with predicting a rising or declining inflation trend.

Inflation really is a multi-year phenomenon that comes slowly into view from some very noisy data. Inflation zig-zags up, with inconsistent durations for the upswings and downswings. I can see that in the chart. So: No technical analysis on the inflation chart!

When COVID-19 hit and the government flooded the economy with stimulus money, people in the real estate space got really excited. The consensus was that the majority of this extra money is going to eventually wind up in the stock market and real estate when it cycles through. Many episodes on biggerpockets talked about this in late 2020 and early 2021. Because of low interest rates, real estate people were very bullish and bought as much as they could. They borrowed at 3.5-4% and now two years later, many markets are up 30-40%.

Trying to predict inflation from month to month seems like noise to me. However, trying to estimate the impacts of inflation on assets within a 2-3 year time frame seems more predictable and repeatable. 

Radagast

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It does not directly impact inflation rates, but RZV looks like the most sensitive stock fund in past crises. If in 2023 it is trading above 90, I think the odds of a near term recession are slender.

EscapeVelocity2020

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@ChpBstrd - I also believe "inflation does not trend", but my confidence would increase if I had expert opinion or data.  If you took that from somewhere, I'd be curious to read the source.
You might find quotes from influential people about the maddening difficulty of predicting inflation, but I was just looking at the charts and thinking to myself "On this particular month, could I have looked back at recent history and predicted a continuation of a trend or a reversal of a trend?" I kept coming up with "no" as the answer. Even more scary, I might have made bets on the continuation of trends that were destined to reverse.
I read an article years ago which cited studies of inflation predictions.  Even the Fed couldn't predict inflation accurately, let alone economists or market watchers.  I was hoping there is an update.

If that historical information is true, it makes you wonder why the market and Fed are both so confident inflation is going to fall rapidly to 3-4% by the end of 2023.  Either everyone has suddenly gained the ability to accurately predict inflation, or the markets are in for a surprise.  Markets being surprised makes for interesting active investing (it has certainly worked for me so far this year).

Do we disagree on where wage growth is headed?  I posted data showing it accelerating, and you posted data showing it was stable.  I claim "median" is better quality data, and that job switchers are leading others into higher wages.  It also fits with a general environment of the lowest unemployment in 50 years.

Professor Jeremy Siegal ("Stocks for the Long Run")  claims wage growth is catching up to inflation, and not a wage spiral.  Although he didn't say how much catching up is needed, inflation rose above 6% about a year ago.  Inflation grew faster than wages, creating negative real wages - people could purchase less.  Now wages will grow faster than inflation... for maybe another year?

Here's another problem with a soft landing: we avoid recession and unemployment, and then still have the lowest unemployment in 50 years and wages growing quickly.  If workers have the power to get paid better, why wouldn't they?  I think wage growth won't stop without a rise in unemployment - will not stop under a soft landing scenario.  It's possible a soft landing contains the seeds of its own destruction, as wages will then drive inflation higher again.

But that's from my biased perspective: I hold put options that profit if the market falls.

The data last week seemed to indicate that wages were surprisingly stable and the market is willing to rally until at least the CPI numbers Thursday show up...  Are you still holding your puts?  It doesn't seem to matter to anyone if inflation trends or not, as long as it is not getting worse.

This is why I avoid active investing, especially in the current environment - what used to be bad news (e.g. uncomfortably strong labor market) is now back to being good news (a soft landing)...  Of course, it's hard to spin a strong CPI number and oil is stubbornly high, but I doubt inflation above 2% but below 6% will worry investors, and I think that's where we'll be most of this year.  The Fed jaw-boned a big game in the minutes about not cutting rates in 2023 and trying to take the air out of market rallies, but there is still a lot of optimism out there!  The Fed Watch tool is showing a couple more 25 bp hikes then possibly a 25 bp cut near the end of the year.

ChpBstrd

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Professor Jeremy Siegal ("Stocks for the Long Run")  claims wage growth is catching up to inflation, and not a wage spiral.  Although he didn't say how much catching up is needed, inflation rose above 6% about a year ago.  Inflation grew faster than wages, creating negative real wages - people could purchase less.  Now wages will grow faster than inflation... for maybe another year?

Here's another problem with a soft landing: we avoid recession and unemployment, and then still have the lowest unemployment in 50 years and wages growing quickly.  If workers have the power to get paid better, why wouldn't they?  I think wage growth won't stop without a rise in unemployment - will not stop under a soft landing scenario.  It's possible a soft landing contains the seeds of its own destruction, as wages will then drive inflation higher again.
There's also the possibility that wages never catch up to inflation, and aggregate living standards are permanently reduced. There is no necessary linkage between inflation and wages, such that wages must keep up with inflation. Maybe this is what the soft landing looks like?

If prices are rising faster than wages, businesses are incentivized to hire more workers so they can sell more stuff at ever-widening margins. This inflationary episode might simply re-allocate profits from labor to capital. In terms of timing, a small rise in unemployment - maybe to 3-4% - could reduce upward wage pressures before wages get a chance to catch up with prices. This could be the story of 2023, and it would leave a lot of workers bitter. Maybe that's why investors are still buying the S&P500 for a PE over 20 despite all the recession alarms going off.

It's also theoretically possible for corporate profits to hold steady or even go up as demand goes down (whether due to recession or a decline in living standards) IF margins get wider. Margins will get wider if wage growth lags behind price growth. I.e. businesses will sell less stuff, at higher markups, while using fewer workers and making fewer capital investments. Maybe this is how bond markets are predicting a recession while stock analysts are predicting >4% earnings growth for the S&P500 in 2023!

I don't have enough confidence to bet big on a soft landing right now, and I think markets are underestimating the cost of corporations de-leveraging in response to higher interest rates. I'll continue opportunistically accumulating long-duration IG fixed income (corp bonds and preferred stock) while holding lots of short-duration treasuries. My estimate right now is that a soft landing is less likely than a 3-5 quarter recession starting in mid-to-late 2023. If the recession doesn't occur until 2024, that might give wages more time to catch up with prices, which will be bad for stocks both from a margins perspective and from an interest rates perspective.

The initial claims data, as updated last week, suggests low unemployment conditions are persisting. This plus the low savings rate, a steady/declining NFCI, and strong Oct-November retail sales suggest the economy has significant tailwinds. People are still pulling ahead purchases and employers are eager to hire while wages lag prices. The recession could be a long time coming, as the incentives are for both consumers and employers to overextend themselves.


ChpBstrd

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As strong initial claims, unemployment, and consumption numbers continue to be published, and as commodities continue to hold steady at much lower levels than last summer, a lot of economists are suddenly expressing doubts that a recession will even occur. E.g:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/camharvey/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/goldman-sachs-economists-no-longer-expect-a-recession-in-europe-11673354244?mod=economy-politics
https://www.yahoo.com/news/expect-us-slowcession-rather-recession-140809222.html

My initial reaction to these voices is that (a) there might be some hope-driven groupthink going on here between a small circle of economists, and (b) financial media are a lot more likely to latch on to hopeful, counterintuitive headlines to generate clicks. After all, how much press did the Wall Street Journal's latest survey receive? You know, the one in which a vast majority of economists expect a recession this year?
https://news.yahoo.com/two-thirds-economists-surveyed-predict-153856334.html

Still, these voices in the wilderness deserve our attention, particularly now that we are at a turning point in rate hikes. The arguments they make are as follows:
  • Jobs are exceeding the workforce by millions, so millions of jobs could be lost due to higher rates without affecting unemployment. A typical recession's job losses are today's job slack.
  • Inflation is basically over, with 1.01% CPI inflation between June and November!
  • Europe and the UK were successful in their efforts to avoid gas outages this winter and to encourage conservation, so their businesses can continue production as planned. There's now a gas surplus.
  • China is reopening.

Each of these factors is a Very Big Deal, but coupled with the unemployment data and a number of other indicators it might seem to some observers that the soft landing is here already.

The futures markets and I agree the FOMC will raise the FFR by 0.25% on February 1. However I'm really starting to think some dovish comments will come out of the press conference and talks by Fed governors afterwards - perhaps even talk about doing 0.25% hikes on alternating months or doing the long-awaited "pause". If the odds of a 4.75% terminal rate go up, stock and bond markets could rally. Right now, futures markets are only calculating an 8.2% chance of a 4.75% terminal rate by June.
https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/interest-rates/cme-fedwatch-tool.html?redirect=/trading/interest-rates/countdown-to-fomc.html

I see no reason why the levels of inflation we've seen in the past 5 months won't repeat for December 2022. Commodities were lower than in November, any remaining supply chain issues only got better, and rents have been falling since August, which will soon be reflected in core CPI & PCE.
https://www.naahq.org/record-rent-decline-november

Additionally, the headline annualized inflation number, which affects consumer and investor psychology, will fall simply because we're dropping December 2021 from the trailing twelve months. That matters because between December 2021 and January 2022 CPI was rising at an annualized pace of 7.74%.

If we need a third reason to expect an optimistic CPI report on Thursday, consider that the consensus is for the CPI index value to be lower than in December. That is, the consensus of analysts is for prices to actually FALL.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/consumer-price-index-cpi

If the analysts are right and CPI prints at their consensus index value of 296.7, we'll drop December 2021 from the annualized calculation and arrive at a new annualized inflation statistic of (296.7/281.933)-1)= 5.24%. This will look like a clear FOMC victory in the making.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL

Now let's think one month ahead and imagine the January CPI number is... let's say 297.5. In February, we'll drop January 2021 from the annualized calculation and arrive at ((297.5/284.182)-1)= 4.7% inflation. At that moment, the FFR at 4.75% will have a real return in excess of TTM inflation.

This and the "clear indications" we've discussed have been Powell's stated criteria for a pause all along. By Thursday, we will have had 6 months of near 2% annual inflation and be a few weeks away from positive real yields.

I'm closing my SPDN position (for a small loss) and deploying some of my unallocated cash into long 1x ETFs like SPTM, SPY, and QQQ, plus a bull spread on the S&P500 index. A negative CPI surprise might force me to reconsider, but if the forecast pans out I'll hold until we see what Powell says in early February and perhaps exit on that news. I still think a recession is probable, so these are relatively short-term trades.

PDXTabs

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Still, these voices in the wilderness deserve our attention, particularly now that we are at a turning point in rate hikes. The arguments they make are as follows:
  • Jobs are exceeding the workforce by millions, so millions of jobs could be lost due to higher rates without affecting unemployment. A typical recession's job losses are today's job slack.
  • Inflation is basically over, with 1.01% CPI inflation between June and November!
  • Europe and the UK were successful in their efforts to avoid gas outages this winter and to encourage conservation, so their businesses can continue production as planned. There's now a gas surplus.
  • China is reopening.

Each of these factors is a Very Big Deal, but coupled with the unemployment data and a number of other indicators it might seem to some observers that the soft landing is here already.

The futures markets and I agree the FOMC will raise the FFR by 0.25% on February 1. However I'm really starting to think some dovish comments will come out of the press conference and talks by Fed governors afterwards - perhaps even talk about doing 0.25% hikes on alternating months or doing the long-awaited "pause". If the odds of a 4.75% terminal rate go up, stock and bond markets could rally. Right now, futures markets are only calculating an 8.2% chance of a 4.75% terminal rate by June.

Let's pretend for one second that the terminal rate is 4.75% and not 5-5.25%. Given the long and variable lags for monetary policy might that 4.75% terminal rate might be enough to un-soft the landing? Isn't a 4.75% fed funds rate considered restrictive when inflation is 1%? Might we see deflation?

ChpBstrd

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Still, these voices in the wilderness deserve our attention, particularly now that we are at a turning point in rate hikes. The arguments they make are as follows:
  • Jobs are exceeding the workforce by millions, so millions of jobs could be lost due to higher rates without affecting unemployment. A typical recession's job losses are today's job slack.
  • Inflation is basically over, with 1.01% CPI inflation between June and November!
  • Europe and the UK were successful in their efforts to avoid gas outages this winter and to encourage conservation, so their businesses can continue production as planned. There's now a gas surplus.
  • China is reopening.

Each of these factors is a Very Big Deal, but coupled with the unemployment data and a number of other indicators it might seem to some observers that the soft landing is here already.

The futures markets and I agree the FOMC will raise the FFR by 0.25% on February 1. However I'm really starting to think some dovish comments will come out of the press conference and talks by Fed governors afterwards - perhaps even talk about doing 0.25% hikes on alternating months or doing the long-awaited "pause". If the odds of a 4.75% terminal rate go up, stock and bond markets could rally. Right now, futures markets are only calculating an 8.2% chance of a 4.75% terminal rate by June.

Let's pretend for one second that the terminal rate is 4.75% and not 5-5.25%. Given the long and variable lags for monetary policy might that 4.75% terminal rate might be enough to un-soft the landing? Isn't a 4.75% fed funds rate considered restrictive when inflation is 1%? Might we see deflation?

Going from 0.25% to 5% in 11 months is definitely enough to cause a recession, based on the historical record. Deflation is rare.

Rate Hiking Campaign          Magnitude of Hikes        Outcome
3/2022-?                             at least 475 bp!              ?
11/2015-1/2019                  ~225 bp                         Deflationary recession in 2020*, unemployment +11.2%
7/2004-7/2006                    ~425 bp                         Deflationary recession in 2008, unemployment  +5.5%
7/1999-6/2000                    ~175 bp                         Recession in 2001, unemployment +2.3%
4/1988-3/1989                    ~330 bp                         Recession in 1990, even after 175pts of rate cuts, unemployment +2.4%

The 1970s and 1980s featured even larger rate hike cycles followed inevitably by recessions. Going back to the 1950's and 1960's, recessions followed rate increases in the range of 225bp to 325bp. So yea, we're in the range of rate hikes where a recession has followed 100% of the time over the past 70 years. We're going well beyond the rate hikes that were followed by the 2008-2009 GFC.

BTW, I've heard few defensible reasons why we won't have a housing-banking crisis of similar magnitude this time. Is the underwriting really better if only 38% of homebuyers in 2021 were putting down the traditional 20% down payment? What's worse, a no-documentation loan or 5% down? Ask a used car salesman.
https://www.zillow.com/home-buying-guide/down-payment-on-a-house/

Deflation sometimes does and sometimes doesn't co-occur with recessions. Inflation usually falls, but doesn't go negative. We had only 3 months of CPI deflation in 2008 and 2020. Deflation this time would mean the FFR is heading back to 0.25% and TLT/ZROZ would rocket upward double digits from where they are now. ZROZ is up 8.3% in the past 2 weeks on nothing more than rumors.

*To be fair, the 2020 recession was directly caused by a pandemic, but was probably inevitable anyway based on the yield curve and record low unemployment prior to the pandemic. The pandemic likely pulled forward a recession that would have otherwise occurred in late 2020 or early 2021.

gary3411

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Like I said 3 weeks ago, excessive inflation has been and is over.

There is perhaps a 5% chance the above statement is wrong, plus another 1-2% chance something unexpected (war, etc) causes another supply shock resulting in it being wrong.

The question is, what probability does the fed place on inflation being over? Even if we knew they also placed a 95% certainty inflation is over, are they likely to over-correct to try and move that certainty closer to 100%? In other words, keeping interest rates higher for longer even when inflation has been low for quite some time? And how long might they do that?

My sense is a soft landing COULD be engineered. It'd require that we are already at the terminal rate, and soon either a reduction or elimination of QT. Followed by an eventual rate cut around the end of the year (to help with sluggish growth).

However, if the fed does any more hikes, keeps QT, and keeps those rates elevated for many months, I see no chance in avoiding a recession, none. I think this is unfortunately the most likely outcome and am positioned as such (higher bond allocation than normal) but still hold plenty of upside stocks as I expect fine returns once it's all over.

Mr. Green

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@ChpBstrd upthread you wrote:

"If the analysts are right and CPI prints at their consensus index value of 296.7, we'll drop December 2021 from the annualized calculation and arrive at a new annualized inflation statistic of (296.7/281.933)-1)= 5.24%. This will look like a clear FOMC victory in the making."

CPI did come in at 296.79 but the LBS news release says that amounts to a 6.5% annual rate of inflation. I can't figure out where they're getting their inflation percentage from because it doesn't match the math of division.

Paper Chaser

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Price of energy and goods contracting seems to be responsible for pretty much all of the drop in inflation of late with food holding pretty steady and services/wages on the rise:



Lots of people seem to think that slightly lower rate of inflation might give The Fed reason to ease up on rate hikes, but seeing it broken down like this makes me reconsider that. Energy prices are notoriously volatile, and the US has been tapping the strategic reserves pretty aggressively to help buffer:



The only way they're going to get back down to 2-3% inflation is to trim inflation in the services sector since that alone is ~4%. Or they'll need fairly significant deflation in the other areas to offset labor gains. I can't see prices going down as wages go up, but who knows.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Can't find a link / reference to it, but NPR had an economist on that posited that the peak of inflation is relatively easy to fight, but as inflation gets down closer to the 2% target, it will become a much tougher battle for the Fed...  The prediction was for inflation to subside but remain elevated above 2% for several years.

Trying to do a little more research on this theory.  A good example of this is housing - consumers don't change right away and prices go up and up (especially when loans are cheap).  Ultimately, the passage of time and price increases lead to cooling demand and a reset of expectations.  Buyers leave the market and return to renting, renters find cheaper places to live, people move back in with extended family or find roommates...  This type of reset plays out across food, cars, services, etc. so that peak inflation begins to take care of itself (especially if wage gains are losing ground to inflation), so it's hard to tease out how much of this cooling to 6.5% is attributable to the Fed vs. what would have happened with no intervention...  Without knowing that, it is difficult to know how much more QT and rate hikes are needed.

ChpBstrd

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December CPI: -0.1% (+6.5% annual)(???)
December Core CPI: +0.3% (+5.7% annual)
Dec. Housing CPI: +0.8% (+7.5% annual)
Dec. Energy CPI: -4.5% (+7.3% annual)

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

Basically, CPI fell due to falling energy prices, and despite higher shelter costs. Core CPI rose at a pace in December that would be 3.6% annualized.

Markets could see the falling energy prices in advance, and therefore predicted exactly the CPI outcome that occurred. What surprises me is the shelter component of CPI seems to be zooming continually up. This is despite the fact that mortgage rates fell slightly in December and we've had rent deflation since August.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/30_year_mortgage_rate
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/redfin-reports-rent-growth-slowed-130000426.html

There's probably a methodological / timing explanation, but how are these trends not yet being reflected in CPI for shelter?

@ChpBstrd upthread you wrote:

"If the analysts are right and CPI prints at their consensus index value of 296.7, we'll drop December 2021 from the annualized calculation and arrive at a new annualized inflation statistic of (296.7/281.933)-1)= 5.24%. This will look like a clear FOMC victory in the making."

CPI did come in at 296.79 but the LBS news release says that amounts to a 6.5% annual rate of inflation. I can't figure out where they're getting their inflation percentage from because it doesn't match the math of division.

Yea, this is confusing to me too. I had been using Fred's CPI for all items in US city average as a source, and dividing the Dec22 default index number by the Jan22 number, which looks to be incorrect.

I tried the math from Dec21 to Dec22 - which intuitively seems like 13 months but makes sense as 12 months if you consider both numbers to be the estimated price level at a fixed date each month - and it came out to ((298.112/280.126)-1)=6.42% That's still not 6.5%. Perhaps with these numbers three decimal places is still too much rounding?

Also, FRED reports an index value for Dec22 of 298.112 versus the 296.79 you saw. Where did you see that index value? FRED sets the index to 100 for 1982/1984 prices. Perhaps the BLS sets their index another way? This could be the key to the mystery.


The only way they're going to get back down to 2-3% inflation is to trim inflation in the services sector since that alone is ~4%. Or they'll need fairly significant deflation in the other areas to offset labor gains. I can't see prices going down as wages go up, but who knows.

These are great data. The rising price of services seems to be offsetting the improvements we should have seen from resolution of supply chain issues.

When I think about what could cause the price of services to rise, I think about not enough employees to meet demand. We're at full employment, so if demand>supply at full employment it might have something to do with the falling labor participation rate, which is a full 1% lower than it was pre-pandemic but trending up. That 1% adds up to millions of people out of the workforce. Labor could represent the new supply chain bottleneck, and the only things that could stop it are a recession or a boost in productivity.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

Back in the days of direct stimulus, I would have cited too much money chasing too few services, but those days are long gone, and M2 has been in an unprecedented decline since March. Maybe there's still too much money, but this seems like a weaker and weaker explanation with each data print, and as inflation declines in other areas.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 08:21:26 AM by ChpBstrd »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!