Author Topic: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed  (Read 73757 times)

eyePod

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2014, 09:19:13 AM »
I remember MMM talking about this post

OP here. Do you have a link to where he was talking about it? Or are you talking about IRL?

eyePod is thinking about different legal threats MMM got, not this one.  This one happened much later than the other ones, and as such he already has a legal team in place if threats ever manifested (they won't).

Here is the forum policy on takedown requests and legal threats: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/this-forum's-policy-on-takedown-requests-and-legal-threats/

I suspect eyePod is thinking of when MMM spoke about the legal threats that prompted that thread, last Spring.

You are correct. I assumed they were one in the same. I guess people see the traffic that he gets and just start flying circles over him.
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Ybserp

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2014, 01:07:39 PM »
One post asked about estate planning in the context of a scam/poor investment option marketing itself as easily transferring the account to a spouse. This is a sales person playing on fear.

In the US, financial products of any kind are very easily set up to transfer to whoever you want to them to transfer to when you pass. All you have to do is fill out a beneficiary form with that bank or investment provider. (If you have a whole lot of money your estate may pay estate taxes, but this would be true if you had used the scammer service also.)

I encourage non-US readers to check with their banks and investment services companies to see if they too have the option of simply naming their beneficiaries. I suspect they will find that they do.

dungoofed

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2014, 04:21:02 PM »
Jonathan - after how long do you become a resident again?

What is wrong with using ISA and/or just a regular taxable trading account until you are eligible again?


JonathanD

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2014, 12:43:48 AM »
Jonathan - after how long do you become a resident again?

What is wrong with using ISA and/or just a regular taxable trading account until you are eligible again?
hi, I just found this forum after Googling the RL360 Quantum - it made for interesting reading - you wrote that you surrendered the policy, right?
I left the UK to work abroad so am non-resident - I would have to move back to live there to be resident again. I contacted an IFA and he suggested this RL360 Quantum - after reading this thread it doesn't seem as though people have had good experiences with it. The IFA's suggestion seem to be about receiving commission so would you suggest a taxable trading account?
I re-read this thread and dan wrote about saxobank- I'll look into that. I just want somewhere to save money, the RL360 looks quite restrictive with high fees and other board members have noted already.

dungoofed

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2014, 04:24:27 AM »
LOL this thread appears just underneath the Quantum RL360 homepage in Google. Thousands upon thousands of people have clicked. I wish this thread was available as a warning before I got involved, but if this thread saves some other suckers then that's the best I can hope for.

Jonathan I surrendered the policy and lost the entire balance (about 50 grand). Given these costs were sunk, that was the best option available to me at the time.

Barry Barrington

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2014, 09:22:24 AM »
I saw this and thought you might want to see this link as to the workings of PWS, it will show you who and how this company works.

www.pws-dubai.blogspot.com

It's a very very good read.

So can I be the first to say Royal London 360 sucks donkeys balls?

This is why they seek to distance themselves by making you go via a local adviser.

The company I was sucked in by are called "Prestige Wealth Solutions"
I should have known form the get go, with such a bullshit name.

They set up a shitty website: pws-intl.com, are seemingly unlicensed anywhere, and then just go out and sell as many products as possible, as quickly as possible.


The "Private Client Adviser" I dealt with was a guy named:
Something.

If you Google his name, it returns nothing which leads me to believe this may possibly be a false name.
If you Google the company name, a lot of the negative reviews are pushed down the search results by some blogspot blogs that I assume the company has set up for this express purpose.

With extended research you can find a list of people complaining about being scammed by this company.

I am so glad that I cut my losses at $7,800.
The $7,800 was a hard lesson but it made me wake up and take my financial planning into my own hands with plans I understand and have full control over.

Depending on the legal system in your country of residence, there may be the option to pursue legal action against your adviser for a refund of your deposit, but I highly doubt you would get anything from it.

Barry Barrington

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2014, 01:44:01 PM »
LOL You should read this link then www.pws-dubai.blogspot.com as old Shabbar Mughal is listed there with some of the other guys that work at Prestige Wealth Solutions.

So apparently MMM got a bogus legal threat from Shabbar Mughal regarding this thread.

Unfortunately danclarkie decided to scrub his posts with useful information about the guy, and this thread no loonger shows up under a Google search for his name.

Too bad, as someone looking for information on the guy (researching if they should take his financial advice) would surely benefit from this.

So hopefully it will, with the name Shabbar Mughal re-added, show back up with a search for him.

Just know, if you're looking to invest with Shabbar Mughal, he's the type of person to use bogus legal threats to hide information about himself, and ask yourself: is that the person you want to invest with?

I can't comment as to the specificity of the other comments about him, but that speaks volumes, to me.

EDIT: Please Note: No one in this thread (above) is making any claims about any specific person, just offering information about various investments.  There are no people named in the thread above this post.

However, I am stating that Shabbar Mughal sent legal threats to MMM about this thread.

That should tell you enough about him, but if not, please read more information about the types of products he may or may not sell, above, to educate yourself before investing with someone who may sell these type of products.

EDIT 2: Thread is already appearing back on Google.  Ugly WAP view, but at least it's out there.

arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2014, 02:28:55 PM »
LOL You should read this link then www.pws-dubai.blogspot.com as old Shabbar Mughal is listed there with some of the other guys that work at Prestige Wealth Solutions.

Wow, quite the indictment from "an ex female employee of PWS."

Calls PWS (Prestige Wealth Solutions) a "boiler room con."

It's a shame so many in the financial services industry are so eager and willing to prey on the less knowledgeable.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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Primm

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2014, 07:13:54 PM »
That blog has been removed. Do you think the author may have received contact from our friend Shabbar Mughal or someone else at Prestige Wealth Solutions and been asked to take it down?

If you're reading this as well Shabbar Mughal, hi! *waves*

Edit:I found this though. Apart from the first "review", the others are pretty telling.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Prestige-Wealth-Solutions-Reviews-E798956.htm
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 07:17:22 PM by Primm »

arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2014, 08:16:08 PM »
That blog has been removed. Do you think the author may have received contact from our friend Shabbar Mughal or someone else at Prestige Wealth Solutions and been asked to take it down?

If you're reading this as well Shabbar Mughal, hi! *waves*

Edit:I found this though. Apart from the first "review", the others are pretty telling.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Prestige-Wealth-Solutions-Reviews-E798956.htm

That's too bad.  We should have saved a copy here to upload it.

Here's a screenshot of those glassdoor reviews of Prestige Wealth Solutions, in case they get removed.  Two one star reviews from current employees,

My favorite quote is "We are by definition one big con"

Hahahaha.

Quite telling for anyone looking to do business with them: "They teach you to lie and scam bookings then the advisors sign them up to plans that get them the most money and that they can not get out of."
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
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arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #60 on: October 22, 2014, 08:22:40 PM »
Ah, still up at Google's Cache.  For now, til they get that removed.

Uploaded here for posterity.  Just unzip the attachment and open the html file for all the juicy details.

Here's some of the text, for someone Googling one of their names (it'll be easier to read if you download the attachment, but this works better for Google Bots):
This is Google's cache of http://pws-dubai.blogspot.com/. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Oct 21, 2014 21:54:44 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime. Learn more
Tip: To quickly find your search term on this page, press Ctrl+F or ⌘-F (Mac) and use the find bar.

Text-only version
 
PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions - QROPS Scam
The behind the scenes truth about life in a Dubai boiler room

HomeThe RingleadersThe MinionsThe Call ScriptDictatorship E-MailsThe Fake Offer LetterThe Fake ContractImagesLinksDisclaimer
PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions, The Inside Story


After you read this please visit the links page as there is lots of useful information that is always updated.

As an ex female employee of PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions from January 2014 to April 2014 all I have to say to a prospective employee (or potential client) is DO NOT WORK FOR THEM EVER!! They are liars, cheats, bullies, sexist and vile scum bags.

I have had to return to the UK after spending all my savings and getting into massive debt after I (and others) stupidly fell for the dream they sold me. At the group interview held by PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions in a hotel by Heathrow Airport hosted by Craig McConnon, Jamie Scott, Alex Herbert and Afzaal Abbas (aka Joe, Af or fondly known by the other guys in the office as Hitler) was promised a proper salary and rent contributions as well as flight home, visa and medical insurance and I was also told I would be earning approx £40K - £50K within my first year and that I would only need £2000 to start up there whilst everything was being processed. I had researched everything as I had heard the all the horror stories about DeVere and GlobalEye pay structures but they promised to be something different, oh how wrong I was.

Regardless of what the contract actually says (see this on the links above) this is worth nothing as at PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions they do not follow this in fact PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions don't pay you a salary they loan you 6K AED and when you finally get advisor they give you 3K AED from that you are in debt 6K every month till you earn something which is impossible if you are new to the country with no connections like I was.

I got no help when I was there even when I asked and when I had to move apartment several times no one helped from PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions helped me to find a place like they said they would. PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions always paid my wages late and to this date they still owe me money for the things they promised, they made you stay late sometimes till 9pm with no notice, they forced you to go to company events, as a female in that place I was always mocked for what I wore, my makeup and hair also I was ignored and left out of conversations and they always moved my desk for no reason.

The way PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions get data is a joke as well, they call companies pretending to be from the Expo2020, Event companies or British Embassy to try and trick the receptionist into giving British names and numbers. PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions used to promise the under paid staff at stores like DU, Etisalat and laundries jobs in exchange for data, pay recruiters, estate agents and gyms for data as well basically anywhere English ex pats would go they would hustle and bribe their way in. My advice would be not to give your mobile number to any of these places and if you do just by an alternative sim and then watch the calls come in.

PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions is basically a boiler room, hit them hard and fast to get their money before they realise what's happened and it's all under the guise of 'helping people'.

PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions have no license even though they claim too, they rent an office along with all the equipment, no one has a visa (some as long as 6+ months) with the only people having visas are those closest to Craig McConnon (MD). If it was to all go tits up they could easily cut and run leaving everyone high and dry.

When PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions opened their new office at The Oberoi Centre (Office 901) in Business Bay there was no license so they were not legally allowed to trade but that did not stop them and when there was an inspection we all had to leave the office but instead of going home they made us stay in an office in the other building to get their monies worth, I bet now they are still doing it.

Also this mob are so paranoid they read ALL the staff’s E-Mail both in and out and do not allow you to change the passwords on your PC so that they can go through them when you are not in the office, they also read your personal E-Mail if logged in and also have keyloggers on the PC’s to read what you put.

The advisors there do not have licenses although some claim to have UK qualifications.

Also PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions have now opened an office in Qatar (where they said I could go as well but lied about that too), Cape Town and Johannesburg again all with no licences or backdoor ways in.

All I can say is that I wouldn't meet or trust these cowboys with anything and I am glad I am back in the UK away from these scum bags!

I warn anyone that is offered a job with them DO NOT TAKE IT or anyone thinking about doing business with them DON'T!!

You may think I am being out of order, bitter, vindictive or just lying about this but I can tell you now I am not, the reason I did this is because they screwed with me personally and financially and although the rest of these blogs you read may (as they claim to people that have see them) have been written by other brokers this is a genuine blog that has been backed up with images and contracts that they will no doubt try and get removed so that nobody reads this or tell you that I was shit at my job or some other rubbish to focus you away from this. Trust me, trust your gut, ask your pension provider.

*!FINANCIAL ADVISORS GET RECOMMENDED IN DUBAI THEY DON'T COLD CALL!*
Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon Dubai, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, Shabbar Mughal, UAE, Wealth Management
The Minions
These are some of the 'Financial Advisors' that will come out to see you wherever you are should you be silly enough to want to hear what they have to say or you just feel like having a free coffee. Unfortunately I don't have all their pictures just yet but I will have a whole collection for you soon.

 
Anthony Anderson


Bilal MUGhal


Marlon Bruges


Shabbar Mughal

Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon Dubai, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, Shabbar Mughal, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
The Ringleaders

Be aware of the following ringleaders that run PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions.
(information is freely available on LinkedIn as well as their pictures)

The Main Man
Craig McConnon FAIQ (CII) - Managing Director
UAE Mobile: +971 (0) 56 115 0855 | International: +971 (0) 426 7169
email: c.mcconnon@pws-intl.com


The Great Af Abbas
Af Abbas (Afzaal Abbas or Joe) - Head of Relationship Management
UAE Mobile: +971 (0) 50 594 5397 | Personal: +971 (0) 50 927 4103
email: a.abbas@pws-intl.com


Alex Herbert
Alex Herbert
Regional Managing Partner
UAE Mobile: +971 (0) 56 691 4021 | Direct Dial: +971 (0) 4 374 2212
email a.herbert@pws-intl.com


Jamie Scott
Jamie Scott
Regional Managing Partner
UAE Mobile: +971 (0) 56 170 6698
email: j.scott@pws-intl.com
Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
The Call Script
So now you have read my previous post here is a look at one of the objection handling 'scripts' I was given. As you can see it lists all the known objections that someone would normally use to get them off the phone and THIS is how they have been told to handle those objections, open this page and try them out. Oh they they will get really happy and love it when they hear you have a frozen pension from BP, Shell, Fire Service, NHS, Teachers Pension, Army Pension or anything in the 15yr or £100K+ range.

Objection handling:

Customer says already invests in property:
Well as we all know property is the cornerstone of any successful portfolio.....
Where is your property?
Is it for investment or as a retirement property?
So you're aware that your primary income will be non-existent when you do retire and that secondary income will be your only security for your future?
So if we could help you to diversify your portfolio just to cover yourself in the event that should there be another property crash which I'm pretty sure you were hit quite bad the last time and you don't want that to happen again am I right?

So now do you see the benefits of sitting down with one of our advisors?
Illiquid asset which means you can't get access to that money at any given time
Historical volatility which you will be subject to-your retirement plan is subject to market fluctuations...lead into diversification recommendation
We can give you access to other asset classes due to strategic allegiances with some of the biggest institutions in the world, lead into independent brokerage benefits
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket reduce risk and incorporate diversification
Maintenance cost -living in it or renting it out for income
Customer claims to already have an IFA:
So you must take your finances very seriously and in this day and age who doesn't have an advisor?
Are they based in the UK or out here in the Middle East? Excellent although Mr Client if you were living back in the UK would you have an advisor based in the Middle East? Also your adviser in the UK can only offer UK based products, we however are a global entity and can complement your portfolio with access to tax free products because we're based in the middle-east you can see the benefit in that can't you?
I Bank with HSBC/Barclays etc - Compliment - That then means they can only give you access to HSBC products because they are a tied agent...does that make sense? Well as we are an independent global entity, we have access to a wider range of products due to the fact we have strategic alliances with most of the leading institutions.../ist them...and because of this we have access to many exclusive products that HSBC can't offer you...does that make sense?
Possibly touch on Interest rates and inflation
Franchise bank - HSBC is not HSBC in Dubai - They paid for a name above the door
Customer claims they haven't got any money:
Ok, well it sounds like we should have had this conversation 10 years ago,then when I rang today you wouldn't be saying you haven't got any money...hahah
Well fortunately,you can benefit from what we do without any cost or commitment from yourself and it doesn't cost you anything to be open minded does it...
Customer asks to send them an email:
Unfortunately I can't do that,if I was to send you a long generic E-Mail will probably sit in your inbox and this phone call would have been a waist of your time Mr Client hahaha, we provide a tailor made service...ok? So if you were to buy a tailor made suit,it wouldn't be a generic 1size fits all and probably won't fit the guy sitting on your right or on your left- am I right?
We personalise what we do for each client's circumstance, requirements and goals- we work on a face to face basis so we can get a better understanding of how we can help you ok?
Customer wants to meet in a Coffee Shop
Unfortunately we don't do meetings in coffee shops
I'm sure whilst you are having a personal financial health check you wouldn't want a crowd of people roaming around you as you wouldn't  want the same thing during a personal physical health checkup,am I right hahaha. (then find out where he works/lives, imply that the advisor will already be in the area next week)
Customer get these calls all the time:
Ok so I guess you've been in Dubai for a long time then hahaha. So what was it that's made you reluctant to sit down with an advisor regardless of what they say...Well I'm guessing it's safe to say you take your finances very seriously and manage your own portfolio or already have an IFA?  Whichever of the 2 answers he gives revert back to IFA objection handling above.
Then lead into the benefits of sitting down with us (Independent,leading institutions,tax free,  if you know he has a good pension...! didn't call you regarding anything except the recent HMRC legislation changes which you might not have been made aware of)
Customer is not interested:

Ok Mr Client, what is it you are not interested in? Smokescreen (Regardless of whatever the person says revert back to other objection handling related to the answer).
Education Planning:
I'm sure you are aware of the rise in education costs? 7-9
I'm sure like yourself you want the best for your kids and would like to be able to send them to university enabling them to have the best education am I right?
So how important is it for you to send your kids to university?
So how would you feel if you were unable to send them?
I'm sure you can see the benefits of having a no cost no commitment meeting with one of our senior advisors?

Excellent when is good for you? Start/Middle/End of the week..... Morning/Lunch Afternoon?



Just in case we forgot this board would be placed in the office.
Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
Dictatorship E-Mails
Obviously what use is the use of being the 'master' of a company where you can't send the odd E-Mail or two to your staff about how you want them to work or how to steal information etc?

Here is a selection of such E-Mails that would be sent to us on a daily basis.


Our daily structure

Our rules


Where they wanted us to get YOUR information from.


OMG Yes just ONE data source can make your year!!


Heaven forbid someone that tries scamming the company for some money!

Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
The Fake Offer Letter
This is the offer letter I (and others) got from PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions, doesn't it look all nice and professional and the money, well that's just amazing. Shame it doesn't mean a thing when you arrive!





Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
The Fake Contract
Now below is the contract that PWS - Prestige Wealth Solutions had me sign, if you read it it all looks good however I have highlighted some parts that they did not do.


















Labels: Af, Afzaal Abbas, Alex Herbert, Boiler Room, British Expats, Craig McConnon, Dubai, Financial Planning, Fraud, Prestige Wealth Solutions, PWS, PWS Dubai, QROPS, SIPP, UAE, Wealth Management
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We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

Prepube

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »
What is "Jack Salmoning"?  References to it in the emails she posted and in the schedules.

dungoofed

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2014, 10:22:59 PM »
It's when you cold call and pretend you're from another company to try and get information from the target. "Hi I'm from the State Names Department, just calling to make sure the information I have on you and in our database is correct..." etc

MarciaB

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2014, 10:59:08 AM »
Cool, thanks.

In other news, Name and Shame coming soon - watch this space.

Also might do a "Where are they now?" special once this phoenix has risen from the ashes and is in slightly better financial shape.

Hey - I love this "Where are they now?" thread idea - and it might even be worth having a whole separate forum section for this. It's not quite the same as Share Your Badassity because of all the initial posts by forum members prior to the resolution of the situation or action taken.

ARebelSpy - is this worth considering? You're the forum guru, right? Perhaps a section where the instructions state that the OP writes a post giving the link to the Ask a Mustachian thread and says how long it's been since the initial discussion. Maybe provides a couple of sentences of summary as to the initial issue ("In January 2014 I was debating taking a new job in NY vs staying at my current job in FL. The big issues were pay difference, cost of living, family, and my herd of pygmy goats.") And then goes on to post what happened and why.

One of the great things about the forums is the opportunity to learn from someone else's choices (the good, the bad, the ugly). And after you've posted a few times on someone's situation you get invested into what happens to them. Having an epilogue of sorts would be great.


arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2014, 07:33:46 PM »
Cool, thanks.

In other news, Name and Shame coming soon - watch this space.

Also might do a "Where are they now?" special once this phoenix has risen from the ashes and is in slightly better financial shape.

Hey - I love this "Where are they now?" thread idea - and it might even be worth having a whole separate forum section for this. It's not quite the same as Share Your Badassity because of all the initial posts by forum members prior to the resolution of the situation or action taken.

ARebelSpy - is this worth considering? You're the forum guru, right? Perhaps a section where the instructions state that the OP writes a post giving the link to the Ask a Mustachian thread and says how long it's been since the initial discussion. Maybe provides a couple of sentences of summary as to the initial issue ("In January 2014 I was debating taking a new job in NY vs staying at my current job in FL. The big issues were pay difference, cost of living, family, and my herd of pygmy goats.") And then goes on to post what happened and why.

One of the great things about the forums is the opportunity to learn from someone else's choices (the good, the bad, the ugly). And after you've posted a few times on someone's situation you get invested into what happens to them. Having an epilogue of sorts would be great.

Good idea.  I feel like though, in general, don't come back to update.  It is nice when they do though, and bump their old thread with the results.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (occasionally) blog at AdventuringAlong.com.
You can also read my forum "Journal."

arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2014, 07:44:46 PM »
That blog has been removed. Do you think the author may have received contact from our friend Shabbar Mughal or someone else at Prestige Wealth Solutions and been asked to take it down?

So both MMM and myself have been contacted by an individual claiming to have written, and subsequently removed, this blog (Google cache link - still available for now, but also cut and pasted 5 posts up as well as in a .zip attachment for easier reading 5 posts up).

They write:
Quote
Hi,
Please can you remove this post:

forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/i-dun-goofed/msg431938/#msg431938

This site was created by myself for my own reasons and should not have been reproduced (certainly without not without my consent) it was totally fictitious and contains extremely libellous content and false statements about company practices that were damaging to the companies reputation.

I have since removed this content due to personal reasons however a member of your site has reproduced this with out my consent and posted it on your forum and as such I would like it removed.

If you wish I can create a page on the blog as proof that I am who I say I am and that I did create it.

I look forward to your response on this.

As of this writing, this forum is not in the habit of removing posts. 

John Stuart Mill talks a great deal about the marketplace of ideas, and that the truth will win out.

If what the author wrote there is indeed false, and PWS is a great company, cool.  Their customers and employees will be happy, and they'll recommend them to friends, and the business will prosper.

If, on the other hand, what is written is true, then hopefully having it available will be a resource for people googling for information.

So far here's what we know about the company:
1) We've had several people posting on this thread unhappy with their products
2) We've had legal threats by the company to MMM, and ostensibly to one danclarke individual on here, who has since edited his posts.
3) We have a former employee writing a whole scathing blog about the company (which is either true, or, if false, they at least made a former employee so upset as to make up things about them).
4) We have several former employees writing negative reviews on glassdoor.com
5) We have the company VERY closely monitoring their social media and google presence, such that they immediately threaten legal action to people here when negative things are posted, get blogs removed within days of being posted, etc.

1, 2, and 5 are facts.  The content in 3 and 4 may or may not be true, but was written.

Then you have other things, like if you Google Craig McConnon FAIQ (CII) - Managing Director (whom the blog referred to as "The Main Man") you get sites like this:
http://craigmcconnonscam.blogspot.com/

Which states:
Quote
Craig McConnon and Advanced Global Trading Scam Review

The Advanced Global Trading Scam has this week hit the headlines again with conman Craig McConnon at the centre of it. Authorities in Dubai have released new information implicating this man for selling illegal carbon credits to unsuspecting people. He is even mentioned on our financial services authority website here in the US telling Americans to avoid him in the Middle East
Craig McConnon and Advanced Global Trading promised investors 30% returns and “for a minimum investment of $25K you too can invest in Carbon and make a difference,” the company said on its website. However, after announcing the market was about to crash, investors were given a dodgy way out but to make this deal go through, the clients were asked put in an extra $15,000.
He is still trying to sell these carbon credits in the UAE today and people are still being taken for a ride. He is supposed to be a financial analyst or something so be warned, do not trust this man with a dime of your own money.

Again, hearsay.  But something to consider.

I leave it to you, the reader, to decide if you want to do business with this company.

But this forum is not in the business of judging which of the above statements are factual and which are not.  We do not hold that they are true, but they may be.  We are not responsible for the content written by others.  We are not in the business of censoring opinions, facts, or otherwise.

If this company is as bad as multiple people have said, I hope leaving this available, rather than removing it, helps people avoid them.  If the company is good, this will get buried and forgotten and they will prosper.

Make your own judgements.

Cheers!  :)

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 07:46:18 PM by arebelspy »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
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ceeawf

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #66 on: November 09, 2014, 04:47:20 AM »
Dear all,

I also have been hoodwinked by the Royal London 360 Quantum scam, this time Holborn assets in Dubai. I signed up to a 15 year policy and despite multiple requests to see the commission structure I was never given it.

My predicament is this:

I have invested $1000k per month for 43 months (investment term 180 Months). The current investments is “worth” a little over $41k (-2.5%). If I cancel the policy I will walk away with $31k losing $12k USD.

Can anyone advice if I should walk away now and cancel the policy banking my 31k. Or continue to pay the premiums but remove Holborn as the “Financial Advisor”?

Any help would be really appreciated.

Regards


LeboLebo

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2014, 05:09:01 AM »
ceewf, I'm also in Dubai, and despite their catchy little radio commercials would never use Holborn Assets.

You are always better off in a low cost fund (Vanguard anyone?)

I'm sure you can run the numbers and see you are better off walking away from this 12k and chalking it up to a sunk cost.

Really, in just over 3 years this investment vehicle has offered a negative return!? The market has been on a recovery tear at this time. Something doesn't add up.

arebelspy

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2014, 07:22:20 AM »
Really, in just over 3 years this investment vehicle has offered a negative return!? The market has been on a recovery tear at this time. Something doesn't add up.
 

That's what happens when you pay such high fees and commissions. =/

Sorry that happened ceeawf.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with a kid.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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danclarkie

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2014, 11:24:21 AM »
Another happy customer: Royal London Quantum 360 Dubai

There is a very good breakdown of the details on the link above.

My favourite comment is:

Quote
In short, if someone had gone out of his way to structure a more inappropriate investment, it would frankly have been difficult to do.

Very interesting to hear that ceeawf had a poor experience with that financial company.
When I met with them (via referral, not cold call) they explained how they were different from the other IFA companies.

Most puzzling is that a representative of that company has a regular column in the national newspaper!

Since the beginning of this year, I've been cold called by 4 other IFA companies.
I was even cold called again by the very same company that sold me the product I walked away from.

All want to sell the same products.
None are interested in talking about ETF Index funds with low expense ratios.

dungoofed

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #70 on: November 09, 2014, 02:04:29 PM »
Really, in just over 3 years this investment vehicle has offered a negative return!? The market has been on a recovery tear at this time. Something doesn't add up.

I believe the pre-surrender value of the plan would have been positive, but there is an early withdrawal "fee" that forces most people to stay the course even when they realise they've been had, sunk costs be damned.

ceeawf - there is a spreadsheet linked to higher up in this thread. Use that to make the decision. There's a chance that it will actually be better for you to keep pumping money into this thing, but I suspect if nothing else, mentally you are better off jettisoning the plan and taking the 12k loss. I lost 50k but I'm glad I did just to have nothing more to do with the plan any more.

ceeawf

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #71 on: November 09, 2014, 09:23:28 PM »
All,

Thanks for the replies. I am continuing to do my research and have a meeting this with with the company in question this week.

I rread on an earlier post that these types of investment propositions are now not legal in the UK? Can anyone give me some specific detail on this?

I was consistantly told that the company in question was the only company in the UAE that works to the same standards as if it was auditied by the UK banking system and financial authority.

Regards,

Ceeawf
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 09:46:30 PM by ceeawf »

danclarkie

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #72 on: November 09, 2014, 10:30:29 PM »
All,

Thanks for the replies. I am continuing to do my research and have a meeting this with with the company in question this week.

I read on an earlier post that these types of investment propositions are now not legal in the UK? Can anyone give me some specific detail on this?

I was consistently told that the company in question was the only company in the UAE that works to the same standards as if it was audited by the UK banking system and financial authority.

Regards,

Ceeawf

The RDR is the Retail Distribution Review that came into effect on 31 December 2012 in the United Kingdom.

http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/sole-advisers/rdr

Main points are that:

Quote
Adviser charging
You must set a charging structure before 31 December 2012. You will not be able to take commission for new advice and you need to disclose upfront how much your advice will cost and how it will be paid.

Quote
Description of advice services
All advisers will need to disclose their advice service as either independent or restricted with effect from 31 December 2012.

If you want to carry on calling yourself an independent financial adviser you will need to consider all retail investment products.  This is wider than the current range of packaged products.  It includes structured products, unregulated collective investment schemes (UCIS, exchange traded funds (ETFs) and investment trusts. We are not saying that you have to advise on all of these products, but you need to remain able to advise on them if required.

Assuming that your adviser did not tell you:

I get paid a lump sum commission on day one of you signing up for this scheme.
The longer the term of the scheme, the more commission I make
This is the amount of commission I will receive
After the initial allocation period (usually 2 years) I receive no further financial incentive to continue to manage your investments for you.

and

That you adviser failed to advise you on the alternative investment options, such as UCIS, ETFs, etc.

Then the advice you received would fall foul of the RDR imposed by the Financial Conduct Authority of the United Kingdom

The policy explicitly states its aims are:


Quote
Independent advice is truly independent and reflects investors’ needs.
People can clearly identify and understand the service they are being offered.
Commission-bias is removed from the system and recommendations made by advisers are not influenced by product providers.
Investors know up-front how much advice is going to cost and how they will pay for it.
All investment advisers will be qualified to a new, higher level, regarded as equivalent to the first year of a degree[16]

and, that as a result:

Quote
The combination of these factors is expected to significantly reduce the profitability of many FI practices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Services_Authority#Retail_consumers

Here is some advice from the FCA regarding how to deal with a suspected financial scam.
This is mostly only applicable to the UK and provided here for reference only:

FCA advice on financial scams

Regarding you specific adviser, it seems he has taken large efforts to protect his online reputation.
I have PM'ed you some details I found through some obscure Google searches, that someone has since paid to have taken offline.

marty998

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #73 on: November 09, 2014, 10:45:04 PM »

I was consistantly told that the company in question was the only company in the UAE that works to the same standards as if it was auditied by the UK banking system and financial authority.


And that gave you comfort after all those London banks were caught out rigging LIBOR amongst other nefarious things over the past few years? Audits are not what you (and the general public) think they are. Very very few audits actually pick up fraud, illegal transactions etc. It's unfortunate, but public perception of what an audit is goes beyond the capabilities of most auditors.

What auditors do give comfort over is that financial statements are prepared in accordance with accounting standards. However it doesn't prove a company is going to be worthy of your investment.

Never, ever trust a salesman. Always DYOR fully and if it smells like a pile o' shit chances are it probably is.

My golden rule is that if an investment requires wining, dining, financial planners and celebrities to sell it then I don't go anywhere near it.

marty998

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #74 on: November 09, 2014, 11:05:09 PM »
Cool, thanks.

In other news, Name and Shame coming soon - watch this space.

Also might do a "Where are they now?" special once this phoenix has risen from the ashes and is in slightly better financial shape.

Hey - I love this "Where are they now?" thread idea - and it might even be worth having a whole separate forum section for this. It's not quite the same as Share Your Badassity because of all the initial posts by forum members prior to the resolution of the situation or action taken.

ARebelSpy - is this worth considering? You're the forum guru, right? Perhaps a section where the instructions state that the OP writes a post giving the link to the Ask a Mustachian thread and says how long it's been since the initial discussion. Maybe provides a couple of sentences of summary as to the initial issue ("In January 2014 I was debating taking a new job in NY vs staying at my current job in FL. The big issues were pay difference, cost of living, family, and my herd of pygmy goats.") And then goes on to post what happened and why.

One of the great things about the forums is the opportunity to learn from someone else's choices (the good, the bad, the ugly). And after you've posted a few times on someone's situation you get invested into what happens to them. Having an epilogue of sorts would be great.

Good idea.  I feel like though, in general, don't come back to update.  It is nice when they do though, and bump their old thread with the results.  :)

I was just reading through some of the 2011 MMM blog posts late yesterday. I really do want to know what happened to this guy:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/29/reader-case-study-how-can-i-climb-out-of-the-gutter/

Wonder if anything has changed in 3 years?

dragoncar

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #75 on: November 10, 2014, 12:34:31 AM »
I have invested $1000k per month


I'm really sorry you got tied up in this "scam."  But at least with $1 million monthly disposable income, you should do OK ;-)

JamesAt15

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #76 on: November 10, 2014, 10:54:23 PM »
Oh my, I hadn't noticed this thread was about Royal London 360 until just now. Was the thread title changed recently?

I have a policy with them that was originally opened with Scottish Provident, a similar company that I believe was merger-aquisitioned into RL360 some years ago. I wrote a fair bit about the unpleasant experience over on the Retire Japan forum. (The link to that thread is http://www.retirejapan.info/forum.html#/20140624/offshore-investing-4035240/ . If it's not kosher to link out like this, please feel free to delete this bit.)

I had stopped paying into the policy many years ago and had basically mentally written it off as likely lost. I'm going to have to look at it again to decide if it's worth surrendering the policy and taking a major loss on it, or keep it in hopes that it will pay out something close to its current value when it matures.

In short, I agree with the posts above. Don't buy products like these, from people like these.

eyePod

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Re: I dun goofed
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2014, 06:43:19 AM »

I was consistantly told that the company in question was the only company in the UAE that works to the same standards as if it was auditied by the UK banking system and financial authority.


And that gave you comfort after all those London banks were caught out rigging LIBOR amongst other nefarious things over the past few years? Audits are not what you (and the general public) think they are. Very very few audits actually pick up fraud, illegal transactions etc. It's unfortunate, but public perception of what an audit is goes beyond the capabilities of most auditors.

What auditors do give comfort over is that financial statements are prepared in accordance with accounting standards. However it doesn't prove a company is going to be worthy of your investment.

Never, ever trust a salesman. Always DYOR fully and if it smells like a pile o' shit chances are it probably is.

My golden rule is that if an investment requires wining, dining, financial planners and celebrities to sell it then I don't go anywhere near it.

Your audit comment reminds me of all of the programs that re-certify you. The Last Psychiatrist had a great post (http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/04/the_maintenance_of_certificati.html)about required testing that you can continually take until you pass (have to pay each time though). The only thing that it shows is that you completed a test successfully, with no information on how you got there. Finally, the information wasn't even topical (his example was that there were no questions on Xanax, the drug most prescribed by psychiatrists.)

I guess my point was most of this is smoke and mirrors to make everyone feel like this is all under control when most people have no idea what they are doing.
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richo

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2014, 08:19:21 AM »
I’ve been meaning to post here for a while as it was my reading of this thread a few months back that made me realize I too had been led down the RL 360 garden path.

I ended up surrendering my USD16,000 initial investment (I prefer to think of it as the cost of my financial education) and have switched across to low fee ETF investing via TD International in Luxembourg (I’m an NZer based in Korea).

Danclarkie’s spreadsheet (linked higher up in the thread) really awakened me to the array of ‘bonuses’ and fees involved and the harsh reality of the impact of those on my returns.

When I showed my advisor the spreadsheet based on my investment, he (not surprisingly) argued that the average annual fee of 3%+ I quoted was not true and in reality it was much lower due to the impact of the bonuses.

So I ended up building my own version (linked here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XJGZpcPxKPoAXgsKo9VHez2NbCTU9W_LjJ1W-fAGFxU/edit?usp=sharing) to try to convert all the costs (and bonuses) into a single fixed annual % fee – the result was still high at around 1.9% per annum. I also added in a section to take into account the impact of the surrender fee and shorter investment period in an alternative platform to determine if I was better off to swap, which told me that as long I the fee on an alternative platform was less than 0.9% per annum I should jump ship. Of course, ETF fees aren’t anywhere near that high, so it was a no-brainer to swap.

Hopefully the spreadsheet can be of some assistance to others. I don’t guarantee that it’s perfect as I’m pretty new to this stuff (and can’t be that smart as I did invest in RL 360…) but I am very thankful to all the posters here for setting me on the right path and it would be nice if I could play my part to do the same for others.

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2014, 01:09:46 AM »
Hey richo really sorry to hear, but mate thanks for having the courage to add to the thread.

"Bonuses" is a new one - my IFA used "taxes" and "points you receive back on your credit card" as his two last-ditch attempts to get me to stay the course.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2014, 08:28:54 PM »
Thanks for making this post, I recently was approached by someone in japan with 360 and the advisor I met also mentioned the starting + finishing bonuses and credit card points. I printed off this thread to bring our next meeting and am looking forward to what he has to say... but I sent an email about the fees and the advisor sent me this. Is it true or not?
http://www.rl360adviser.com/generic/downloads/qu016.pdf

MDM

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2014, 08:49:22 PM »
Thanks for making this post, I recently was approached by someone in japan with 360 and the advisor I met also mentioned the starting + finishing bonuses and credit card points. I printed off this thread to bring our next meeting and am looking forward to what he has to say... but I sent an email about the fees and the advisor sent me this. Is it true or not?
http://www.rl360adviser.com/generic/downloads/qu016.pdf

Of course it is true.  How could you be such a doubter?  Also, please be sure to trust the audience shill who points out the bent corner during the 3 card monte game....

And note "The growth rates shown are per year and do not include the contract charge (1.5% p.a. taken monthly in arrears) and external fund management charges."

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2014, 10:16:24 PM »
Ok. So with that 1.5% what I am looking at, that's 1.59% growth necessary? (25 year 10000 usd pm)

For me the structured idea (retirement forget and ignore sort of thing) was the only reason I was considering it before seeing this thread, is anyone doing something better in Japan? Where should I be looking?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 10:34:34 PM by timjp »

MDM

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2014, 10:37:11 PM »
Ok. So with that 1.5% what I am looking at, that's 1.59% growth necessary?

For me the structured idea (retirement forget and ignore sort of thing) was the only reason I was considering it before seeing this thread, is anyone doing something better in Japan? Where should I be looking?

Oh boy, where to start? 

Perhaps with..."For financial advisers only. Not to be distributed to, nor relied on, by retail clients."  And this was sent to you by the, ahem, financial adviser?  Who may be wanting you to think you are getting "inside information", despite the part about retail clients not being able to rely on it?

I assume you are looking at the .09% required for $1,000 over 25 years to get the 1.59% in your post.  But even that doesn't include the "external fund management charges," however much they are, so you have to add them as well.  And this is the minimum return you would need to avoid losing money.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about investment options for someone in Japan, but I have to think there are better....

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2014, 10:54:13 PM »
TimJP Trust me, just walk away. Don't even meet him again. Cancel the meeting.

It doesn't matter how prepared you are, the guy on the other side of the table DESTROYS OBJECTIONS FOR A LIVING. That's what he does, and he has centuries of experience in the form of the materials that have been put together for him. You cannot out-argue him in a million years.

My suggestion is to periodically send money home via Ozforex or one of these services, and invest in your home country.

If you want to get fancy, consider opening a trading account locally with Rakuten or SBI, maybe consider a NISA account with one of these two as well, and if you want to go uber-fancy you can try opening a brokerage account in either Singapore or Hong Kong.


DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2014, 10:58:09 PM »
Wow I think everyone can relate to this whole topic/thread.  In one way or another we have all been bamboozled out of money for something we thought was going to lead to some expected outcome that turned out to be a mirage.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2014, 11:34:21 PM »
Thanks for all the information.

Nothing about insider information. He was actually pretty clear about the fees, with fund management fees the performance he was showing was after fees so I wasn't really thinking about that. How does this affect the funds pricing?

Not really sure about opening a trading account because, I don't know how long I am going to be in Japan and which country I'll be working in next. Plus I don't know much about trading and the accounts are all in Japanese.

Is there a simpler option than an overseas brokerage and sending money?

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2014, 11:49:27 PM »
What is it specifically that is too complicated?

Opening an account with Ozforex?

Opening a trading account in your home country?

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2014, 12:00:33 AM »
This might be the wrong place for it but just setting things up and maintaining it. Something like a credit card option, or streamlining things to make it more automatic.

Is this hard to do with ozforex, mufj and the commonwealth bank?

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2014, 01:18:25 AM »
I don't have a way to automatically invest a fixed amount from your credit card each month but I do have an alternative. Save up 500,000 yen and send that home, then start saving again towards the next 500,000. Repeat.

Sometimes it may take you three months, sometimes it may take you two, and other times it might take you five. This flexibility is a good thing.

If you commit to, say, 150,000 a month on the RL360, do you know what happens when you are earning more and want to increase it to 200,000? (and this *will* happen). You have to pay more in fees in order to deposit more.

Here's a guy in the comments who got started with Ozforex in Japan with Shinsei and pays no remittance fees:

http://expatfinance.net/international-bank-transfers-correspondent-bank-fees

Any reason you are with Commonwealth Bank? I have HSBC in Australia and if you have a couple of laddered $5000 term deposits with them there are no bank fees ever.

I also do my trading with them. It's not cheap at $16/trade but it's cheaper than RL360 will ever be.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2014, 06:24:25 AM »
Thanks for all the advice.

I'll have a look into things. For a guy in Dubai you sure know your stuff about Japan, I'll see if I can find a way to automate the process.

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2014, 06:35:59 AM »
You may need about a month to get the Ozforex account and a trading account set up in Australia, because of the documentation involved. But it's still worth it.

JamesAt15

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2014, 07:59:36 PM »
timjp - dungoofed is right. Cancel the meeting with the RL360 guy.

Did you see this article? (I just found it on the reddit subforum linked to in one of the above articles.)

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/02/26/general/its-their-plan-for-your-money-so-assume-deception

It sounds like you like the automatic contributions via your credit card aspect. I can see that. That's about the only thing you could say these plans have going for them.

I'm a US citizen and I have a Charles Schwab account, so I use that. They have an account with Citibank Japan that I can transfer to from my own Citibank Japan account, and it automatically gets converted to USD and credited to my Schwab account. Costs me 315yen per transfer, but unfortunately it can't be automated or done via phone so I have to go to a branch to make the deposit. Still, I consider it well worth it for being able to use Schwab for my investing.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2014, 08:12:17 PM »
Thanks for the article, raises a lot of interesting points...but once again doesn't offer an alternative.

Citibank doesn't automate those things either?

The credit-card thing was a big selling point for me, RL360 is easy to set up. But how much should I be paying in fees for convenience?

dungoofed

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2014, 08:44:04 PM »
I have asked a lot of people and there is no way to do the auto-credit-card thing as nicely as these products do.

DESPITE this, just walk away from the product and cut contact with the guy. This is my last response to you on this.

Learn from my mistake. That's what this thread is about (although it didn't start like that). You have done the hard work by reaching out to us and not thinking you were smart enough to think of all the possibilities on your own. This is harder to do than it sounds! Most people think they are too smart to have the wool pulled over their eyes, and they think that they have thought out all the possibilities. Walk away.

以上

JamesAt15

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #95 on: November 25, 2014, 08:51:46 PM »
Tim, in my opinion, you would be better off with your money sitting in a savings account earning the usual .01% interest. You could accumulate it there and then do the bank transfer process to a real brokerage account every few months, hell, even once a year if you wanted.

If the RL360 product they are pitching you is anything like the one I got, you are aware you can't pull the money out until the term of the policy is up? I.e. in 25 years? If you do, you'll forfeit 50-100% of the value of the policy?

The financial advisor is after the big up-front signing commission he will receive if he signs you on to a plan like this. After you are signed on, you will likely never hear from him again. (We didn't - our company signed on with a similar advisor when setting up our employees with these plans. After it was all set up, the guy became very hard to reach and eventually disappeared.)

The investment options available in the plan are limited, and the fees are not cheap. I'll have to crunch the numbers, but I think the results from my money in the global markets fund have been about break-even for the last several years. But they don't need to get good results from their funds if you can't get your money out and they don't have to worry about you transferring your balance to a competing broker.

I really think you would be better off just keeping your money in a savings account at this point. I suggest you ask around and try to find someone else in your company, circle of friends, Japan forums, etc, that have signed on to a policy like this and have good things to say about it. If you find such a person (I am wearing my skeptical face), find out what it is they like about the plan.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #96 on: November 26, 2014, 06:29:41 PM »
Thanks James.

This is the fund guide I was sent? Are these funds not the fund managers but RL360 funds?
http://www.rl360adviser.com/generic/downloads/qu009.pdf

I'm aware of the 25 year lock up. But you can make partial withdrawals, so I don't feel like this is too much of an issue unless I cancel it within the next 5 years.
I should make it clear, I'm not talking about all my monthly savings going to RL360.

Commission is definitely a worry though.

JamesAt15

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #97 on: November 26, 2014, 07:36:54 PM »
Looking at that sheet, it looks like most of the listed funds are managed by other firms (Schroders, Franklin Mutual, Fidelity, etc.) I don't know if that's a good thing or bad. Presumably you'll end up paying fees to both RL360 and to the managing firms of the funds themselves. But at least you have some third party information about the various funds available and how they perform. Suggest you look at which funds you would be interested in and then search for those funds on the web and check out what their fees are like. I just checked a couple in the Global Equities section:

Franklin Mutual Global Discovery Fund - Gross Expense Ratio        1.28%
Schroder ISF Global Equity  - Ongoing Charges (latest available)       1.69 %
Jupiter JGF Merlin International Equities L A Inc GBP - Annual Charge 1.50%

Then you'll probably be paying RL360 their 1.5% on top of that, though they may not make that clear.

dungoofed has already made his last word on this subject. I think I will bow out as well. I can appreciate that you want to automate the process and forget about it, but it's worth the effort to create an alternative process. Even saving up cash and making a file transfer every six months or a year to a brokerage account would be a better deal.

There are investment trust products you can buy directly from Shinsei bank and I think (if you're not a US citizen) from Citibank accounts, which might work for you if simplicity is your overriding concern. You might want to look into them as well.

timjp

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2014, 08:17:16 PM »
Ok thanks.

The advisors presentation said, the percentages there are after the management fees of the fund companies have been taken away.

Alright, I'll have a look at the investors trust, I am an australian citizen so it should be fine.

MDM

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Re: Royal London 360 - I dun goofed
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2014, 09:34:26 PM »
There is an interesting but little known version of the Turing test.  In this version, one tries to distinguish between
  > an unwary investor seeking support for his hope that something seeming too good to be true, really is true - despite repeated contrary cautions
  > an agent of a financial firm trying to lure unwary investors by pretending to ask questions, but in reality looking to advertise

Here, I find myself unable to distinguish.  Other opinions?