Author Topic: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!  (Read 4895 times)

OzzieandHarriet

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Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« on: May 25, 2018, 03:37:15 PM »
We went to talk with a financial advisor firm today that works with a lot of people at my husband's workplace. They offer all kinds of great-sounding things: investment management, financial planning, and tax services, and can hook you up with people to do estate planning (wills, etc.). But the fees they charge, though I know they are standard for the industry, seem like a lot of money: more than $20k per year for what we have currently. When we were listening to the sales pitch today, it all sounded good, but the actual dollar amounts it would cost are giving me pause. They do offer financial planning for a straight fee (~$5k).

My question is: do any of you savvy people use any services from one of these firms, and if so, has it been worth it?

We are 60 and 58, I'm essentially retired, husband is hoping to go to some sort of part-time status this year and ease out of his job over next couple of years. We have about $2 million in retirement savings, a paid-off house, and no debts. No kids.

RWD

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 04:14:12 PM »
No way I'd ever pay a percentage-based fee for financial advice. I'm sure you can find a fee-only fiduciary for much less than $5k too. Steer well clear of that firm!

See also: JL Collins on advisors

secondcor521

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 04:16:41 PM »
I'll call myself savvy and say no, I don't use them and wouldn't at that rate.  I do everything myself, although I'll probably pay for some fee-only tax planning advice from a CPA at probably $250 per hour.

If your situation is simple, then I think you can do it yourself too.  Read books, research things, and over time you'll figure out a good plan.  And at that point, if you still want to hire help, you'll at least know better what questions to ask and what products and services you need and those you may wish to avoid.

MDM

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 04:17:58 PM »
Several years ago we paid a flat fee for a one time review of our situation.

They did a fine job, but from our perspective it gave us the confidence that we really did have things set up well and could handle our own.

And $5K does seem unnecessarily high, unless you have family owned businesses or other complications.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 06:48:28 PM »
Okay, but if ALL of these companies charge similar fees, some people must find what they do useful.

Car Jack

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 07:32:12 PM »
Waste of money.

Doing the math, it sounds like your portfolio size is similar to mine.  I would never consider one of these clowns to do the 15 minutes worth of rebalancing needed a year that I do myself.  That's like $80k per hour.

simonsez

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 07:42:49 PM »
Okay, but if ALL of these companies charge similar fees, some people must find what they do useful.
I don't follow this logic.  I think this just informational asymmetry.  Fear of the unknown is big for business in financial circles.  Your demand curve is opposite of normal for this product!  If the going fees were 10k instead of 5k, would that make you more anxious you need advice?  If the same advice is $500, do you then feel more secure or to look into it yourself?

Others have pointed out if your situation is complex paying by the hour could be a good move.  And do similarly (paying for an hour or two of time) if it makes you feel better just to have someone in a suit tell you "you're good" rather than Internet strangers.

evme

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 08:00:34 PM »
I would never pay the flat 1% of assets under management (AUM) that has been pretty standard in the past. I think this model is going away, especially with all the Roboadvisor services charging much less (I believe Betterment is around 0.25%, for example).

I personally use a firm that is a member of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners (https://www.acplanners.org/about-us/acp-planners). They use a Retainer Model which includes many factors, but you pay a set fee per year with unlimited consultations. In my case it works out to about 0.5% of AUM. They are fee-only, so they don't get paid to sell you anything. 0.5% is still a lot, but my tax situation is complex, and the retainer includes tax planning, financial planning, tax return preparation, investment management, etc, so I find it worthwhile for now.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2018, 10:22:45 AM »
Some firms are "fee only firms", and their advice has a fixed price.  The advantage there is they won't try to "up sell" you into a percentage fee plan.

I suspect the estate planning is the key detail.  But if you are taking a package deal, how can you select the best lawyer?  That should be something where you shop around and decide for yourself.  Maybe with estate planning out of the way, you'll feel more relaxed?  Many lawyers offer reduced fees for the initial consultation (or free) so you can find one you like.

shinn497

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2018, 10:25:46 AM »
I would never pay the flat 1% of assets under management (AUM) that has been pretty standard in the past. I think this model is going away, especially with all the Roboadvisor services charging much less (I believe Betterment is around 0.25%, for example).

I personally use a firm that is a member of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners (https://www.acplanners.org/about-us/acp-planners). They use a Retainer Model which includes many factors, but you pay a set fee per year with unlimited consultations. In my case it works out to about 0.5% of AUM. They are fee-only, so they don't get paid to sell you anything. 0.5% is still a lot, but my tax situation is complex, and the retainer includes tax planning, financial planning, tax return preparation, investment management, etc, so I find it worthwhile for now.

Betterment is .25% up to 2 million. So they never charge more than 5k. I'm sort of on the fence for this since that is 8% of what you could take out by then.

Goldielocks

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2018, 11:57:16 AM »
If you have $2million in assets, there is a chance that you could get your money's worth -- if you get free trust and estate advice, CPA advice, cross border tax advice, excellent financial planning and management, including access to private equity funds / tax advantaged funds not available on the general market,  for your situation.

There is a reason people with $20 Million in assets hire dedicated firms to manage their money, after all.

At the end of the day, however, the 1% fee you were quoted is likely just industry standard, and not reflective of $250/hr of effort that they would do on your behalf.   Use that as your benchmark.   Are you getting at least 80 hours of effort PER YEAR for your 1% fee?

Reference:
-- Currently, I charge flat rate, at $150/hr startup, moving to $200/hr whenever I can --

Mighty-Dollar

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2018, 10:58:53 PM »
Okay, but if ALL of these companies charge similar fees, some people must find what they do useful.
The average consumer is stupid. They THINK that advisors are supposed to time the market. Timing the market is a fools game. Don't pay for an asset manager to constantly hold your hand because all you do is hold and rebalance when your bond / stock allocation ration become out of wack. Asset managers also try to make investing seem complicated. It isn't. Nothing wrong with picking 2 index funds -- total bond market and total stock market. Done.
So if you need money help you should be paying on a one-time basis just to come up with a "game plan" -- No hand holding over time. If you pay them 1% over them then the 4% rule becomes the 3% rule. Then you run out of money. 1% makes a huge difference down the line.

Mr Mark

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2018, 11:43:29 PM »
These 'advisors' are generally parasites, albeit sometimes well meaning.

If you have such a large stache you'll get free advisory services from Vanguard directly, and it sounds like you have a lot more than $1 million.https://investor.vanguard.com/investing/benefits/flagship

Quote
Investors with $1 million to $5 million*

You're a Flagship client at Vanguard, which means you get personalized services reserved for our high-net-worth investors.

Helping you look at your wealth holistically is important to us. As a Flagship client, you'll have exclusive resources available to you, including Vanguard professionals who can help you meet your investment and wealth management needs.

These include specialists in areas like estate planning, trust services, financial planning and advice, and philanthropy.

Exclusive benefits
When you call, you'll speak with an experienced Flagship representative who will act as your guide to all the services we offer our high-net-worth clients. Whenever you're facing a complex situation or change in circumstances, a dedicated representative will coordinate personalized, expert help that's tailored to your needs.

In addition to commission-free Vanguard mutual funds and ETFs (exchange-traded funds), you'll also have access to these important benefits:
• Financial advice from a Certified Financial Planner™ professional through Vanguard Personal Advisor Services®—anytime. Our advisors can help you with specific investment questions or provide ongoing advisory and portfolio management services.
• Even bigger discounts on your brokerage costs, including 25 commission-free trades for stocks, options, non-Vanguard ETFs, and transaction-fee funds.**

The whole "1%" fee thing is so clever in it's deception. If we assume average nominal portfolio returns pretax of ~9% per year, then that actual advisory fee is over 11% of your returns. Every year.

If I signed you up, I'd be popping champagne with my sales colleagues and regaling them on how I managed to land such a big fat fish.

theoverlook

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2018, 08:22:32 AM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2018, 01:18:40 PM »
I would never pay the flat 1% of assets under management (AUM) that has been pretty standard in the past. I think this model is going away, especially with all the Roboadvisor services charging much less (I believe Betterment is around 0.25%, for example).

I personally use a firm that is a member of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners (https://www.acplanners.org/about-us/acp-planners). They use a Retainer Model which includes many factors, but you pay a set fee per year with unlimited consultations. In my case it works out to about 0.5% of AUM. They are fee-only, so they don't get paid to sell you anything. 0.5% is still a lot, but my tax situation is complex, and the retainer includes tax planning, financial planning, tax return preparation, investment management, etc, so I find it worthwhile for now.

Betterment is .25% up to 2 million. So they never charge more than 5k. I'm sort of on the fence for this since that is 8% of what you could take out by then.

.25% is a lot of money to pay over your life time- if you retired with 2MM and withdraw 80k per year and put your money in betterment - you would pay

30 years - 514k
40 years - 1.1MM
50 years - 2.2MM

So most here who are FIREing in their 30's or 40s will likley need their money to last over 50 years.  you would pay betterment more than what you saved to manage your money for you - its completely not worth using.

https://www.begintoinvest.com/expense-ratio-calculator/

here is a calculator you can go see what you're wasting.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 01:23:14 PM by boarder42 »

shinn497

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2018, 02:16:13 PM »
I would never pay the flat 1% of assets under management (AUM) that has been pretty standard in the past. I think this model is going away, especially with all the Roboadvisor services charging much less (I believe Betterment is around 0.25%, for example).

I personally use a firm that is a member of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners (https://www.acplanners.org/about-us/acp-planners). They use a Retainer Model which includes many factors, but you pay a set fee per year with unlimited consultations. In my case it works out to about 0.5% of AUM. They are fee-only, so they don't get paid to sell you anything. 0.5% is still a lot, but my tax situation is complex, and the retainer includes tax planning, financial planning, tax return preparation, investment management, etc, so I find it worthwhile for now.

Betterment is .25% up to 2 million. So they never charge more than 5k. I'm sort of on the fence for this since that is 8% of what you could take out by then.

.25% is a lot of money to pay over your life time- if you retired with 2MM and withdraw 80k per year and put your money in betterment - you would pay

30 years - 514k
40 years - 1.1MM
50 years - 2.2MM

So most here who are FIREing in their 30's or 40s will likley need their money to last over 50 years.  you would pay betterment more than what you saved to manage your money for you - its completely not worth using.

https://www.begintoinvest.com/expense-ratio-calculator/

here is a calculator you can go see what you're wasting.

Yeah but if betterment gets me to save more, save a bit with their features, and just enjoy the process a bit moar, I say its worth it. The other caveat you would have to calculate is how much you earn overall. If my life time returns are like 10 - 20 mill, and I have to pay 2 mill. I won't mind. 

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2018, 02:41:37 PM »
I would never pay the flat 1% of assets under management (AUM) that has been pretty standard in the past. I think this model is going away, especially with all the Roboadvisor services charging much less (I believe Betterment is around 0.25%, for example).

I personally use a firm that is a member of the Alliance of Comprehensive Planners (https://www.acplanners.org/about-us/acp-planners). They use a Retainer Model which includes many factors, but you pay a set fee per year with unlimited consultations. In my case it works out to about 0.5% of AUM. They are fee-only, so they don't get paid to sell you anything. 0.5% is still a lot, but my tax situation is complex, and the retainer includes tax planning, financial planning, tax return preparation, investment management, etc, so I find it worthwhile for now.

Betterment is .25% up to 2 million. So they never charge more than 5k. I'm sort of on the fence for this since that is 8% of what you could take out by then.

.25% is a lot of money to pay over your life time- if you retired with 2MM and withdraw 80k per year and put your money in betterment - you would pay

30 years - 514k
40 years - 1.1MM
50 years - 2.2MM

So most here who are FIREing in their 30's or 40s will likley need their money to last over 50 years.  you would pay betterment more than what you saved to manage your money for you - its completely not worth using.

https://www.begintoinvest.com/expense-ratio-calculator/

here is a calculator you can go see what you're wasting.

Yeah but if betterment gets me to save more, save a bit with their features, and just enjoy the process a bit moar, I say its worth it. The other caveat you would have to calculate is how much you earn overall. If my life time returns are like 10 - 20 mill, and I have to pay 2 mill. I won't mind.

how would it get you to save more i litterally just showed you what it cost and that it would be more

i dont even know what to say to someone who cares this little about money. if your returns are 10MM and you pay someone 20% of that you're happy 

this is just an absurd statement.

OzzieandHarriet

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 08:02:41 PM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory. 

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2018, 06:01:02 AM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory.

https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/

https://www.madfientist.com/safe-withdrawal-rate/

This is a fun tool to play with different withdrawal strategies.

http://www.cfiresim.com/input.php

Personally i'm planning a variable withdrawal method for the first 5-10 years where we only adjust our withdrawals down if its a bad market - the other good withdrawal strategy is reverse equity glide path where you start with 50-70% bonds and slowly move to 100% stocks over a certain number of years. 

at the end of the day you're probably perfectly safe withdrawing 80k a year from you 2MM stash.  You likely have SSA coming in short order as well.  If you arent spending 80k a year then you're going to be even safer

Prairie Stash

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2018, 01:26:08 PM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory.
Kicking the tires of a financial advisor is normal. Many people have taken a look at it at some point (myself included). I currently have some money with an adviser; my wife has been dealing with him for 20? years. I'm not proud of it, its just how we live our lives, . Several years ago I made a reasonable compromise, I would compare accounts over a 5 year period and see who did better. This satisfied my spouses concerns and my own, the argument boiled down to emotional concerns which are hard to resolve instantly. Its well under 10% of our investments with a financial adviser, I'm not aware of any rule saying you have to give them 100% of your investments.

For all those suggesting its going to cost $20,000/year, thats called exageration. Its 1% of whatever you transfer in; so it will cost up to $20k but could be $1000. I'm not suggesting you take this route, I just don't like exageration.

If you struggle with budgets, maintaining asset allocation, self control in downturns (a good advisor will talk you out of selling in 2008), or otherwise exhibit behaviour that is potentially self destructive; then get an advisor. An advisor takes the role of a parent when it comes to money, some people need that (even at 60 years old, we're all still kids at heart). Requiring parental hand holding is necessary for some people, the worst is the people who skip an advisor and show up on the Antimustachian wall of Shame.

I don't think you show any signs of needing an advisor. However, feel free to check a couple more out and see for yourself that they all say the same things and won't offer you much. I highly recommend multiple free consultations to talk yourself out of it.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2018, 03:02:18 PM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory.
Kicking the tires of a financial advisor is normal. Many people have taken a look at it at some point (myself included). I currently have some money with an adviser; my wife has been dealing with him for 20? years. I'm not proud of it, its just how we live our lives, . Several years ago I made a reasonable compromise, I would compare accounts over a 5 year period and see who did better. This satisfied my spouses concerns and my own, the argument boiled down to emotional concerns which are hard to resolve instantly. Its well under 10% of our investments with a financial adviser, I'm not aware of any rule saying you have to give them 100% of your investments.

For all those suggesting its going to cost $20,000/year, thats called exageration. Its 1% of whatever you transfer in; so it will cost up to $20k but could be $1000. I'm not suggesting you take this route, I just don't like exageration.

If you struggle with budgets, maintaining asset allocation, self control in downturns (a good advisor will talk you out of selling in 2008), or otherwise exhibit behaviour that is potentially self destructive; then get an advisor. An advisor takes the role of a parent when it comes to money, some people need that (even at 60 years old, we're all still kids at heart). Requiring parental hand holding is necessary for some people, the worst is the people who skip an advisor and show up on the Antimustachian wall of Shame.

I don't think you show any signs of needing an advisor. However, feel free to check a couple more out and see for yourself that they all say the same things and won't offer you much. I highly recommend multiple free consultations to talk yourself out of it.

20k per year is 1% of 2MM this is in no way shape or form an exaggeration.

Prairie Stash

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2018, 04:40:50 PM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory.
Kicking the tires of a financial advisor is normal. Many people have taken a look at it at some point (myself included). I currently have some money with an adviser; my wife has been dealing with him for 20? years. I'm not proud of it, its just how we live our lives, . Several years ago I made a reasonable compromise, I would compare accounts over a 5 year period and see who did better. This satisfied my spouses concerns and my own, the argument boiled down to emotional concerns which are hard to resolve instantly. Its well under 10% of our investments with a financial adviser, I'm not aware of any rule saying you have to give them 100% of your investments.

For all those suggesting its going to cost $20,000/year, thats called exageration. Its 1% of whatever you transfer in; so it will cost up to $20k but could be $1000. I'm not suggesting you take this route, I just don't like exageration.

If you struggle with budgets, maintaining asset allocation, self control in downturns (a good advisor will talk you out of selling in 2008), or otherwise exhibit behaviour that is potentially self destructive; then get an advisor. An advisor takes the role of a parent when it comes to money, some people need that (even at 60 years old, we're all still kids at heart). Requiring parental hand holding is necessary for some people, the worst is the people who skip an advisor and show up on the Antimustachian wall of Shame.

I don't think you show any signs of needing an advisor. However, feel free to check a couple more out and see for yourself that they all say the same things and won't offer you much. I highly recommend multiple free consultations to talk yourself out of it.

20k per year is 1% of 2MM this is in no way shape or form an exaggeration.
1% of $100,000 is $1000... Where did it say that the entire portfolio needs to be with a single advisor? Where did it say that the OP couldn't put 5% with an advisor, I pointed out that I did something similiar.

I agree with you, $20k is substantial. I just showed how to do it for a fraction of the fees...so if I can do it for $1000, so can the OP.

I agree its not a great idea. I think the OP should examine all options and come to a conclusion for their specific situation. Jumping to the assumption  that they had to transfer 100% of their retirement is incorrect.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2018, 05:01:39 PM »
Wtf is the point in putting 100k with an advisor.putting a small portion with an advisor makes 0 sense. You either think they are going to be better for you or not putting 5-10% of your money with them accomplishes next to nothing.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2018, 05:02:55 PM »
This is litteraly the worst argument I think I've ever heard. See it's cheaper. Yeah if you put one cent with them you pay a fraction of that a year so why not do that.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »
TheHusbandHalf and I, (62, 60) 9 years ago hired Fidelity to take care of things. It's under 1% but I don't know off hand what the fee is.  He handled stuff up until then. He can do many things well, carpentry, plumbing, HVAC, electrical. siding, etc, almost to the expert level, but he is no where near that level taking care of our money. Plus, he does not have the time to learn to the level a professional does.

We thought, one wrong move we made would more than be worth the pay they get. Their fee goes lower as our money goes higher. We have been very happy with them.

Goldielocks

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 10:29:37 PM »
Hey WifeHalf.  It is time to take a look.  You could be paying a low advisor fee, but then you get put into higher MER funds with Fidelity, as well, creating much more than 1% fees, net.


jodelino

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2018, 12:36:33 AM »
You got to $2mm in assets, presumably without one of these fancy 1% advisors. Why do you need one now?

Well, I'll tell you why: my husband is very nervous about leaving his job and living off of our savings. He at least wanted to check out what this type of service was all about, but he decided it's too expensive. (I agree.)

Saving up the stash was pretty easy, but figuring out how to maintain it and spend it while no longer adding to it is new territory.


A short, readable book that you might find useful is Darrow Kirkpatrick's "Can I Retire Yet?" You can buy it through Amazon, or through his website of the same name, which has clearly written posts on all kinds of decisions that early retirees face.

(I agree with most everyone here: I've heard those pitches too, but I think 1% is too much to pay, and with some study, you can probably figure out how to manage your money very well yourself. I would hire a good lawyer to help with your estate planning, a good CPA to help with tax planning, and a fee for service financial advisor as needed.)

h82goslw

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2018, 03:49:57 AM »
If one really must have someone managing their funds, Vanguard Personal Advisor Services only charges .30% of your portfolio. 

Vegasgirl

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2018, 05:15:51 AM »
So we recently paid $2500 for a "second opinion" well a third opinion actually.  So even though I've been managing our finances for the past 20 years with no issues, now with pending ER hubby doesn't believe me or has doubts, whatever.  So a year ago I pay a visit to our free Fidelity guy at my workplace (we have free access to Fidelity person on staff at work by appt).  He runs all of our numbers, is impressed, says we are good.  That wasn't good enough so this year we hire a financial adviser, they do the whole in-depth work up and tell me what I already knew, we're good.  So of course they want us to move assets to them to be managed - they must be high !!! 1.75% annually !! LOL - Even on $1M - $17,500/year?? Please - that's three European vacations right there!!  Trying now to convince hubby that it's a complete waste and to not proceed.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2018, 05:26:03 AM »
So we recently paid $2500 for a "second opinion" well a third opinion actually.  So even though I've been managing our finances for the past 20 years with no issues, now with pending ER hubby doesn't believe me or has doubts, whatever.  So a year ago I pay a visit to our free Fidelity guy at my workplace (we have free access to Fidelity person on staff at work by appt).  He runs all of our numbers, is impressed, says we are good.  That wasn't good enough so this year we hire a financial adviser, they do the whole in-depth work up and tell me what I already knew, we're good.  So of course they want us to move assets to them to be managed - they must be high !!! 1.75% annually !! LOL - Even on $1M - $17,500/year?? Please - that's three European vacations right there!!  Trying now to convince hubby that it's a complete waste and to not proceed.

paying 2500 for a second opinion to convince SO makes a ton of sense.  seems like you've done your diligence not sure why you're husband isnt onboard with you continuing to run the finances vs paying some one almost half your SWR.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2018, 07:34:54 AM »
DH likes credentials I guess?? I honestly don't know what's up I think its just cold feet.  I also think with time he'll come around.  Things need to sink in with him if they weren't originally his idea.

Car Jack

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 07:42:31 AM »
TheHusbandHalf and I, (62, 60) 9 years ago hired Fidelity to take care of things. It's under 1% but I don't know off hand what the fee is.  He handled stuff up until then. He can do many things well, carpentry, plumbing, HVAC, electrical. siding, etc, almost to the expert level, but he is no where near that level taking care of our money. Plus, he does not have the time to learn to the level a professional does.

We thought, one wrong move we made would more than be worth the pay they get. Their fee goes lower as our money goes higher. We have been very happy with them.

Bullshit

Taking care of retirement investments is way easier than electrical, plumbing, brushing your teeth or tying your shoes.  Look to Fidelity's own study of it's 401k holders.  They wanted to know what things those with the best outcomes (most gain) over time did.  Those with the absolute gains........were dead.  You don't think your husband can act like a dead person and just leave the investments alone?  Ok then.....pay money for some clown to pick out his next BMW that you'll be paying for.


Sorry for such a rant, but the whole thought that managing money is this big complicated thing is just so wrong.  I'm no financial wizz (I'm an engineer), and the only things I needed to know was to look at the expense ratios, decide what asset allocation I wanted and then place investments appropriately (aka, you put bonds and international in tax advantaged accounts and equities in taxable).  If you want, rebalance to your AA once a year.  That's all of 15 minutes.  Or do nothing.  And when I die?  My instructions to my wife are:  When you need money, take it out of whatever account you want.  Take RMDs as the institutions' letters tell you to.  The end.  It's not optimal, but who cares.  Even if she takes money out of the worst possible accounts, it's cheaper than hiring a clown to "manage" (steal) your money.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 08:50:26 AM »
yep i find it incredibly hillarious people think some person is actually benefitting them.. the number one and number 2 things you can do is not change your AA due to market conditions and minimize your fees - depending on the level of those fees it could be number 1 or number 2 -  how exactly does an advisor help you out in either of these cases.

fees- 0% chance they fail here only negative value add

not selling - market crashes and you want to sell - most advisors will just do what you say they dont care they'll move your money to a fixed asset class or less risky and keep their 1% commission.

so your advisor benefits you how exactly? 

fattest_foot

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 09:21:11 AM »
It seems like you'd be much better off just finding experts to handle these issues for you?

Find a lawyer to draft wills and trusts.

Get a CPA.

At worst, you're looking at a few hundred per hour, but likely under 5 hours a year total (unless you've got some complicated issues you haven't mentioned). At worst you're out a couple thousand dollars, but you were able to pick your own expert as opposed to whatever roulette wheel you get with the advisory package.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2018, 11:24:21 AM »
Why do we stay with them?
It's been growing more than twice what we spend each year and add another year with the money from TheHusbandHalf's  paycheck - we're happy. (what we actually spend is kept in a savings/checking account)
See, that's enough. We don't join in to the 'whoever dies with the most wins' game. We watch what they do, talk to them 4/yr scheduled, more if WE want.

I have relatives that have lost big time to financial planners they have chosen, and a couple of guys THH works with, same thing. I do not have a fear of something like that happening.  We sleep well.

Something the guy asks every year, is the % growth we want. He's spot on each time.
Really, that's enough.

By chance we learned that they hire from this podunk school system, and the county over, and to be honest, that moves them up a notch  in our eyes. These people are not involved in any way with OUR money, they are in some other department.

THH and I have talked about some of the issues that have been mentioned. One of the things we talked about was having money left to give to a charity, to our kids, or having little left. The way we looked at it, sure, they're making $ from us, but we are happy with the amount.  Helping to pay people that lived around here when they were younger, and I'm sure others from little towns, so they are employed vs a charity when we die? It's one of the choices we made. We have a few charities mentioned in our will, if there's ANYTHING LEFT.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2018, 11:40:24 AM »
Why do we stay with them?
It's been growing more than twice what we spend each year and add another year with the money from TheHusbandHalf's  paycheck - we're happy. (what we actually spend is kept in a savings/checking account)
See, that's enough. We don't join in to the 'whoever dies with the most wins' game. We watch what they do, talk to them 4/yr scheduled, more if WE want.

I have relatives that have lost big time to financial planners they have chosen, and a couple of guys THH works with, same thing. I do not have a fear of something like that happening.  We sleep well.

Something the guy asks every year, is the % growth we want. He's spot on each time.
Really, that's enough.

By chance we learned that they hire from this podunk school system, and the county over, and to be honest, that moves them up a notch  in our eyes. These people are not involved in any way with OUR money, they are in some other department.

THH and I have talked about some of the issues that have been mentioned. One of the things we talked about was having money left to give to a charity, to our kids, or having little left. The way we looked at it, sure, they're making $ from us, but we are happy with the amount.  Helping to pay people that lived around here when they were younger, and I'm sure others from little towns, so they are employed vs a charity when we die? It's one of the choices we made. We have a few charities mentioned in our will, if there's ANYTHING LEFT.

the bolded parts in this statement make no sense.

and the second bolded part i'd love to be your financial advisor if you're not making out landish requests.

ie 2013 we'd like our money to grow at 10% - see look it grew at 10% i got 23%

2008 - well it lost 39% sorry its just what the market did. 

how one can spend all their life learning how to make money and then just thinking some other human being taking 1% has their best interst in mind is maybe the dumbest move one can make financially. 

1% effectively lowers the SWR by 1% so now you're at a 3% SWR just b/c you didnt want to learn - and as stated above its something that takes little to no effort or time. 

and from your statements its clear you have no idea whats going on with your money or a true understanding for how it grows or what happens to it.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2018, 12:10:17 PM »


the bolded parts in this statement make no sense.

I'm sorry, I did not make myself clear. I forget sometimes others do not have a brain that works like mine does. We spend x each year. Our Fidelity account value grows AT LEAST 2 x, + 1x that THH has put in from his paycheck. Plus, we get x, or a little more, from his paycheck in our checking/savings account.

and the second bolded part i'd love to be your financial advisor if you're not making out landish requests.

I think this is another case of our brains thinking differently, this sentence was not clear to me.
I should have typed that it's usually that percent, if not more.


ie 2013 we'd like our money to grow at 10% - see look it grew at 10% i got 23%

2008 - well it lost 39% sorry its just what the market did. 

how one can spend all their life learning how to make money and then just thinking some other human being taking 1% has their best interst in mind is maybe the dumbest move one can make financially. 

I would not expect the F guy to know how to manage the board at an oil refinery, but he pays for my husband every time he buys gas. He is not just 'some other human being', he has training, like my husband has training to sit in front of 5 computers and tell people what to do.

1% effectively lowers the SWR by 1% so now you're at a 3% SWR just b/c you didnt want to learn - and as stated above its something that takes little to no effort or time. 

Like I said, it's not 1%. F has combined our accounts because they know I am not employed, and the money I have comes from THH, so the % is lowered as if it was one account.. On some accounts, we are at 4, others, 7. Really, that's enough. There's enough there, assuming it never gained or lost, to last us 120 years. Really, that's enough.

and from your statements its clear you have no idea whats going on with your money or a true understanding for how it grows or what happens to it.

That is precisely why we hired Fidelity to manage it. The things we know how to do, we do ourselves, in general. Those we don't know, we hire someone who does.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2018, 12:20:33 PM »
LAS made my point for me above in a better way - just b/c your accounts are growing 2x what you're spending really means jack shit in the grand scheme of things esp with the bull market we have - again thats why i said the statement is non sensical and contains 0 context - the percent ROI each year or avg YoY would be a better statement to determine what you're making.

and LAS also filled you in on the fees you're really paying which are over 1% most likely.  so you'd better be planning on a sub 3% SWR with that advisor "helping" you.  advisors are such a joke. 

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2018, 12:26:24 PM »
Just thought I'd chime in...
First,  no one can tell you what to do with your money.  That being said I think you are making a few unsupported assumptions and have an incomplete view of what a financial advisor actually does. 

First, I have first hand knowledge of the Fidelity fee structure for PAS managed accounts (I helped a relative get out of managed accounts).  Essentially fidelity charges a an annual marginal rate on the value of the account just like a tax system.  You are charged 1.7% for the first 200K, 1.6% for the next 100K, and on down the line to 0.85% for amounts over $2M.  I think most folks will have gross fee somewhere in the range of 1.25-1.55% for PAS.    However, the way fidelity hides this is that the rebate you the ER for the funds that they invest in which comprise fidelity funds and SAI funds (which has a fee sharing relationship with Fidelity).  So although you look at your account and they are only withdrawing say 0.6-0.75% in cash, this is only part of your total fee.  You must include also the fees of the underlying funds to determine your true total investment fees.  Also, with the relative I was working was a couple and the H&W were being treated as separate clients, so their fee structures and accounts were basically being managed separately even though they had a combined conference.

Further the fact that your accounts have been growing at "twice what you spend each year" does not instill confidence.  Over the past 10 years we have had an amazing bull market, and virtually no inflation.  However, the bull market sours or inflation picks up, you could find that you are consuming much more of your pie than you had thought.  In no way will the added draw of fees help you with this. 

That your guy asks you the % growth you want each year and is spot on is a little fishy, to me.  It is not possible for an investment advisor to predict the future and tell you what your returns will be.  Perhaps he is estimating within a range?  Also markets produce returns, investment advisors don't.

Thank you for the information. You are getting into some things that are beyond my comprehension.
Please know, we are happy with how our F accounts are managed. Really, it's enough. These accounts are part of our retirement money so we did not want to take the chance at managing it ourselves.  Of course we expect them to make money, with the info you've given, it's probably .85% - not unrealistic to me - really, it's enough.
 Someone above said they would love to be our financial planner. We are happy with the growth of the accounts and when people say they would love to be our planner, my thoughts go to the relatives and THH coworkers that had their money stolen - just makes me feel more secure with our choice.

Like I said, thank you for the info

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2018, 12:31:36 PM »
Wtf is the point in putting 100k with an advisor.putting a small portion with an advisor makes 0 sense. You either think they are going to be better for you or not putting 5-10% of your money with them accomplishes next to nothing.
Slow down a second. The point is psycholgical, not mathematical.

What some people need is a demonstration, the advice isn't intended for you, but I'll try to explain it. If a person has a psychological hangup, repeatedly telling them they're wrong or crazy or make no sense is not going to help. What does help is trying to understand their views and working with them. If the husband feels that strongly, then moving $100,000 and paying $1000 in fees over a year would demonstrate its useless. Its not about being optimal, its about getting past the hangup so the couple in question can retire already. If they had done this 3 years ago, they would alreay have the experiment finished and the husband would already be retired.

Instead, the OP paid $2500 to attempt to accomplish the same thing. Whats better, spending $2500 or doing a trial and spending $1000? How much more money will be wasted in the convincing? As the story unfolds it sounds like my advice would have saved $1500; I'll agree with boarder that its still a waste but the point is to minimize damage.

OP - try to understand your husbands hangup and work with him. He's not ignorant, he understands the math. Often in the quest for perfection we overlook mediocre solutions that will work. My solution is mediocre, but its one path towards the real goal which is to get you retired in the shortest time possible.

Talk it over with the husband, if it gets him to retire, its the best $1000 you'll ever spend. In all the arguments, lets not overlook the purpose of all the discussion, its not about spending, its about getting the husband to retire. I fail to see how this entire discussion about fees will convince him to retire, if he were to read this thread, how would that help him retire sooner?

ysette9

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2018, 01:04:36 PM »
My husband is a smart engineer who is on board with FIRE, but he too wants the second opinion of someone professional to make sure we aren’t missing anything. Several years ago we tried a phone consultation with a USAA advisor (since we are members). Most of the time was spent trying to hack the advisor’s online retirement calculator to account for the fact that our savings rate was higher than the max the took would go. In the end he told us we were doing great and asked if we were interested in adopting a 40-year old man. :) Flattering, but not helpful.

Now I’d like to find someone who know the idea of FIRE and can help with specifics on when to execute a bond tent and isn’t going to tell us that we have to reach a 3% WR or the sky will fall. I’m considering someone for a one-off consultation through XY Planning network (started by Kitces, I believe) because that might fit our needs. I’m open to recommendations though. As much as I agree with others that we can do this ourselves, I need an independent feel-good check to make my husband comfortable, and that is worth spending a little money on.

TheWifeHalf: another way to think of it is that you are doing your charity now. You just happen to be donating large sums of money to a white-collared professional. :)
If I do my online interest calculator correctly, if you moved from Fidelity to Vanguard’s managed account service at 0.3% fees instead of 1%, you could save $300k over the next 20 years. That is a lot of money you could give to a true charity, if you were interested.

boarder42

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2018, 01:54:23 PM »
Wtf is the point in putting 100k with an advisor.putting a small portion with an advisor makes 0 sense. You either think they are going to be better for you or not putting 5-10% of your money with them accomplishes next to nothing.
Slow down a second. The point is psycholgical, not mathematical.

What some people need is a demonstration, the advice isn't intended for you, but I'll try to explain it. If a person has a psychological hangup, repeatedly telling them they're wrong or crazy or make no sense is not going to help. What does help is trying to understand their views and working with them. If the husband feels that strongly, then moving $100,000 and paying $1000 in fees over a year would demonstrate its useless. Its not about being optimal, its about getting past the hangup so the couple in question can retire already. If they had done this 3 years ago, they would alreay have the experiment finished and the husband would already be retired.

Instead, the OP paid $2500 to attempt to accomplish the same thing. Whats better, spending $2500 or doing a trial and spending $1000? How much more money will be wasted in the convincing? As the story unfolds it sounds like my advice would have saved $1500; I'll agree with boarder that its still a waste but the point is to minimize damage.

OP - try to understand your husbands hangup and work with him. He's not ignorant, he understands the math. Often in the quest for perfection we overlook mediocre solutions that will work. My solution is mediocre, but its one path towards the real goal which is to get you retired in the shortest time possible.

Talk it over with the husband, if it gets him to retire, its the best $1000 you'll ever spend. In all the arguments, lets not overlook the purpose of all the discussion, its not about spending, its about getting the husband to retire. I fail to see how this entire discussion about fees will convince him to retire, if he were to read this thread, how would that help him retire sooner?

2500 one time review is better than moving 100k in for 1k to be lost annually.  B/c a one year study proves nothing.

Frugancial Advisor

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2018, 03:37:56 PM »
I can't stop laughing at the angry responses to this thread!

Investment management fees =/= financial planning fees. They are completely different. Just because some folks are comfortable spending considerable time on the internet researching their investment strategies (most likely during one of the strongest bull runs in all of history), doesn't mean others have the same personality.

Do some institutions create a conflict of interest by paying commissions on products rather than advice? Yes. Does that mean all financial planning is a waste of money? No.

Believe it or not, outside of this MMM 'bubble', there are individuals with millions of dollars who do not know the difference between a bond and a preferred share. They do not grasp the concept of asset allocation and rebalancing. They do not know how to perform an insurance needs analysis, a pension analysis, a taxation analysis. They do not know how to create an estate plan, or open a trust for their disabled grandchild with government benefits. And guess what? They have NO interest in learning about it.

These otherwise intelligent investors are willing to a pay a premium to have their finances taken care of by a professional who is also a fiduciary. Payment for these services is obviously required - how that payment is made is what I believe is under scrutiny here.

I wholeheartedly agree with Prairie Stash in the recommendation to have the minimum amount managed by a fiduciary (i.e. $100k at 1% = $1,000 per year) as they are obligated to provide professional advice on your WHOLE financial situation. IN ADDITION, if you find their risk-adjusted returns are underperforming that of your Vanguard portfolio - BRING IT UP! Explaining that you are getting better returns on your 0.05% MER portfolio than their recommendations is not a slap to the face, it is an honest discussion that any REAL financial planner would welcome.

Interesting Fact: Wealthy clients pay LESS to hire a financial planner and buy the individual securities in the index, than to buy an index ETF or mutual fund. That's right, they are paying less than investors holding an S&P500 Index Fund.

ysette9

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2018, 04:26:26 PM »
Preach!!

Frugancial Advisor

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2018, 04:36:03 PM »
I can't help but point out that this is quite a disingenuous post.  By your handle I assume you're a financial adivsor?  Let me go grab my grain of salt.


I can't stop laughing at the angry responses to this thread!

Investment management fees =/= financial planning fees. They are completely different. Just because some folks are comfortable spending considerable time on the internet researching their investment strategies (most likely during one of the strongest bull runs in all of history), doesn't mean others have the same personality.

A fee is a fee.  So in that respect if someone is paying for something they don't need to then it is a waste of money whether it is on investment management or financial advising.  And under and AUM model, most brokers/financial advisors/customers men (or women) do not break out their charges and allow folks to pick what they want.  If someone is planning on using a 4% withdrawal rate, a 1% fee is equivalent to the financial advisor consuming 25% of what a person can comfortably spend.  Sounds like a mooch if you ask me....

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Do some institutions create a conflict of interest by paying commissions on products rather than advice? Yes. Does that mean all financial planning is a waste of money? No.


This is a straight up straw man.  Logically flawed.

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Believe it or not, outside of this MMM 'bubble', there are individuals with millions of dollars who do not know the difference between a bond and a preferred share. They do not grasp the concept of asset allocation and rebalancing. They do not know how to perform an insurance needs analysis, a pension analysis, a taxation analysis. They do not know how to create an estate plan, or open a trust for their disabled grandchild with government benefits. And guess what? They have NO interest in learning about it.


Your third argument is a straight up appeal to popularity.  So whatever.... lots of people can be wrong all at once.  Also you do not get estate planning, and trust set-up for the cost of financial advisor fees, as these usually require the services of an attorney.  Perhaps you meant something else?  Or just that the financial advisor suggests them and puts people in touch with "their" lawyer?  Lawyers in most states are forbidden from splitting fees received from their clients with a non-lawyer, so I think bundled legal services in this context, if actually offered as such, are probably a violation of the state bar ethical rules where the lawyer is practicing.  More than likely though financial advisory fees do not cover these legal services -- I've never heard of it.

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These otherwise intelligent investors are willing to a pay a premium to have their finances taken care of by a professional who is also a fiduciary. Payment for these services is obviously required - how that payment is made is what I believe is under scrutiny here.

No we are arguing that over 1% is too high. Don't try to change the subject. The fact that the financial advising industry needs to resort to hidden, layered fees, talking out of both sides of their mouth, and  microscopic fonts in important disclosures such as expense ratios speaks volumes to whether they can be trusted.  Imagine if all brokerage houses were required to post their gross fees in 6 ft letters by the side of the road the way gas stations do with gas prices?  Perhaps people would shop around...

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I wholeheartedly agree with Prairie Stash in the recommendation to have the minimum amount managed by a fiduciary (i.e. $100k at 1% = $1,000 per year) as they are obligated to provide professional advice on your WHOLE financial situation. IN ADDITION, if you find their risk-adjusted returns are underperforming that of your Vanguard portfolio - BRING IT UP! Explaining that you are getting better returns on your 0.05% MER portfolio than their recommendations is not a slap to the face, it is an honest discussion that any REAL financial planner would welcome.
OR INSTEAD OF BRING IT UP, JUST FIRE THE ADVISOR!  In my experience and opinion, financial advisors are trained to keep people at the trough.  There will be an answer for every question....full of half truths and weasel words.  Financial advisors will work to sow fear, uncertainty, and doubt in clients, and work to pit spouses against each other so that the resistant one finally gives in and agrees to the services.  Further, I do not believe you that hiring a financial advisor for a small portion of an account requires them to give detached and disinterested advice on the whole financial situation.  I mean why would it? They are not responsible for it. And, I'm sure lots of sales pitches for management and other products such as annuities and life insurance policies will ensue if a person only rolls 10-20% of their net worth under a financial advisor who bills under the AUM model.

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Interesting Fact: Wealthy clients pay LESS to hire a financial planner and buy the individual securities in the index, than to buy an index ETF or mutual fund. That's right, they are paying less than investors holding an S&P500 Index Fund.

Huh?  This is a bit irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  I assume you included it to take a swipe at index funds.  I mean I guess if someone has high 8 or 9 figures to invest they would be able to beat a 3.5 or 4 basis point fee that Vanguard or Fidelity charge for an index fund.  But excluding ultra-high net worth individuals, pension funds, and institutional investors, etc, this is basically false for most individual investors.  An index fund with a 3-4 basis point (0.03-0.04%) ER is cheaper to manage that buying all of the individual securities on an index such as the S&P 500 or Total Market Index.  And furthermore, when a person hires a financial advisor, my experience has been they do not get direct purchase of all the securities on index.  Instead they get 20-30 bullshit high-fee  actively managed mutual or ETF funds which in aggregate all cancel each other out and provide no better results than the portfolio benchmark results minus all of the fees.

L.A.S,

Firstly, I am not a financial advisor. Perhaps your incorrect assumption persuaded your defensive response?

I never once mentioned the AUM model of fees when explaining the difference between investment management and financial planning, but you happily grasped on that fact as if it was set in stone. Are you aware of something called fee-for-service?

You may want to check out something called 'Google' for the definition of straw man! Nowhere in my sentence did I try and create such an argument. The reality is that some institutions which should be AVOIDED are focusing on commission based advice. However, that doesn't warrant throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to FINANCIAL PLANNING advice.

To be honest, your further replies aren't worth a response. It's clear you or someone you know has dealt with an 'Advisor' who was NOT a fiduciary in the past because YES THEY ARE REQUIRED TO GIVE HOLISTIC ADVICE ON YOUR WHOLE PORTFOLIO REGARDLESS OF WHAT % IS BEING MANAGED !

And lastly, the fact about wealthy clients paying less than index fund holders is 100% true and is proven by mathematics. If you really want to dispute that, you are essentially disagreeing with a calculator :)

ysette9

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2018, 04:39:23 PM »
We need to clearly distinguish between fiduciary fee-for-service/fee-only advisors and the 1% AUM model. The first has its place for some people. The second is pretty much universally (around here, TheWifeHalf notwithstanding) derided as rife with conflict of interest, and something between highway robbery and a scam.

evme

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2018, 05:01:32 PM »
Look to Fidelity's own study of it's 401k holders.  They wanted to know what things those with the best outcomes (most gain) over time did.  Those with the absolute gains........were dead.

Do you have a link for this study? I tried to google but could not find it. Would love to show some people so please share if you can.

edit: found these two links:

http://www.businessinsider.com/forgetful-investors-performed-best-2014-9
https://twocents.lifehacker.com/the-best-investors-literally-forget-about-their-portfol-1782581085
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 05:06:08 PM by evme »

ysette9

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evme

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2018, 05:09:48 PM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/forgetful-investors-performed-best-2014-9

Interesting, this page claims that Fidelity said the study does not exist:

Quote
Here’s how to get better returns in your retirement account: Pay as little attention to it as possible.

That was the conclusion of a study by the investment giant Fidelity, according to a 2014 article on Business Insider. The article relayed the transcript of a Bloomberg program in which the well-known money manager Jim O’Shaughnessy said that people who had forgotten that they had accounts outperformed everyone else.

Fidelity, which has received inquiries about the study ever since, without knowing why, told me this week that it had never produced such a study.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/your-money/401k-retirement-plan-investment-stock-markets.html




MDM

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Re: Financial advisors: those 1% fees!
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2018, 05:13:29 PM »
Firstly, I am not a financial advisor.
I'm a Certified Financial Planner in Ontario
?