Author Topic: Been day/swing trading my retirement account  (Read 7500 times)

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« on: April 02, 2019, 06:05:21 PM »
I know I'm not supposed to but I couldn't resist.

Anyways, I put in a lot of money about 30 days ago into my IRA -- $5000 for last year and $1500 for this year so far.

I've gained 8.75% on that (including all trading fees) in the past month, whereas I have only gained 1.7% in the past month in my Solo 401k w/ VTSAX.

I've also gained about 10% in my Robinhood investment account the past 30 days, trading different stocks than I did in retirement account.

So am I fooling myself that I can keep this up?  I set Stop Loss orders so I don't lose much. I've lost 0.5% here and there but most of time I gain 1-2% per trade.  Been day/swing trading AAPL, BA, TSLA, FB, AZO, WTI and others.

Beginner's luck? lol.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 06:13:39 PM by JenniferW »

ScarElbow

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 80
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 07:52:14 PM »
Keep at it! Overtime you'll get a good feel for it and finetune your mechanics that very soon you'll look back and say to yourself "duh, it's a no brainer, I should've done this to begin with". I can attest to this because I was in the same boat as you are until I tried my hands on trading. Good luck!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 08:00:42 PM by ScarElbow »

MDM

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9247
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 08:31:07 PM »
So am I fooling myself that I can keep this up?
Yes.

Quote
Beginner's luck? lol.
Yes.

Of course, I could be wrong.  Some non-zero, albeit very small, fraction of active investors do come out ahead of index funds.  You may be in that fraction.

Laserjet3051

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 664
  • Age: 90
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 08:40:13 PM »
Post your 5 year returns "swing trading" and let the data speak for itself.

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 09:32:28 PM »
Almost 3 years ago I posted this result in my "Playing with Momentum" thread:
"Overall record from 2/17 to 7/6 is +15.2% momentum experiment, +7.6% S&P 500."

Meaning I, too, beat the market by about +7%.  But currently the 3 year performance is +3%/year versus +13%/year for the S&P 500.  I've been running an experiment going on 3 years now by picking the ETF with the highest 12 month performance.  I recommend benchmarking - keep comparing your performance against VTSAX.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 01:33:17 AM »
Post your 5 year returns "swing trading" and let the data speak for itself.

The only reason I'm doing this is because of the 10 year bull run, stocks are really expensive right now -- high P/E ratios.  I am fearful of a crash.  If there was a crash .. say 30-50% I'd definitely just do the index fund thing at that point.

After I buy in I set a stop loss usually and keep adjusting that stop loss up as stock rises.   Or if it rises a bit I might just sell it instead of trying to trail it.  I do a manual trailing stop loss I guess is what you'd call it.

Boeing kept going up and down day over day.. made good on that one.  1-2% each time.

It does occupy a lot of time & thought though.  Not very good if you want to focus on other things than money. 

I use thinkorswim paper money w/ realtime data for the information and have been making the trades on Robinhood and Vanguard.  I didn't open TD Ameritrade account because I wanted to stick to index funds in Vanguard :).  >.>. The top three tickers are the futures for Dow, Nasdaq and S&P 500.  Then I also track VOO and VTI.  Also Gold, Bonds, US Oil, etc..  Then whatever tickers I'm interested in tracking.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 02:01:06 AM by JenniferW »

Maenad

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Location: Minneapolis 'burbs
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 05:29:23 AM »
I think you're just asking for permission for something you want to do but know you "shouldn't".

Consider this your permission. It's your money - do whatever you want with it. Enjoy.

UnleashHell

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6057
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Florida
  • Chapter IV - A New ... er.. something
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 08:29:39 AM »

SwitchActiveDWG

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 09:19:01 AM »
I know I'm not supposed to but I couldn't resist.

Anyways, I put in a lot of money about 30 days ago into my IRA -- $5000 for last year and $1500 for this year so far.

I've gained 8.75% on that (including all trading fees) in the past month, whereas I have only gained 1.7% in the past month in my Solo 401k w/ VTSAX.

I've also gained about 10% in my Robinhood investment account the past 30 days, trading different stocks than I did in retirement account.

So am I fooling myself that I can keep this up?  I set Stop Loss orders so I don't lose much. I've lost 0.5% here and there but most of time I gain 1-2% per trade.  Been day/swing trading AAPL, BA, TSLA, FB, AZO, WTI and others.

Beginner's luck? lol.

As long as you realize that despite all the effort you put into it, it is simply chance that dictates the outcome. Everything you're doing has been done before.

So it if entertains you, by all means keep going. Gambling can be fun.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3174
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 09:49:32 AM »
Personally I'd quit while I was ahead, but that's just me. All the statistics say you'll end up, at best, wasting your time. And at worst, of course, losing money AND wasting your time.

-W

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 10:14:52 AM »
Personally I'd quit while I was ahead, but that's just me. All the statistics say you'll end up, at best, wasting your time. And at worst, of course, losing money AND wasting your time.

-W

Well I just quit for now -- all my money in cash at the moment! :) (gained another 2% today in Robinhood account -- Vanguard funds settled tomorrow if I wanted to trade in that account).

I really do think I have a problem!

Stimpy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Middle of Nowhere
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 10:21:19 AM »
Personally I'd quit while I was ahead, but that's just me. All the statistics say you'll end up, at best, wasting your time. And at worst, of course, losing money AND wasting your time.

-W

Well I just quit for now -- all my money in cash at the moment! :) (gained another 2% today in Robinhood account -- Vanguard funds settled tomorrow if I wanted to trade in that account).

I really do think I have a problem!

It's only a problem if you haven't set a limit to your what want to lose.  I am not talking daily here, I am talking over all.  If you start with lets say 2k, over time make 8k, and lose 10k on a bad bet, stop, quit and run away. 

Otherwise, it's your money, play to your hearts content.  If you win, you win.  If you lose, you lose, just don't lose it all.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2019, 10:34:32 AM »
On per trade basis I typically don't want to lose more than 1%.  I just set up a stop loss order or catch it real time -- Thinkorswim alerts are handy.

You guys are probably right, I'm probably just wasting time, getting lucky this past month.  Probably get a long string of 1% losses this month.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3548
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 11:05:27 AM »
In the first dot com gold rush, there were commercials about day trading. It was easy and everyone was minting money. "Quit your job and become a day trader," the commercials touted.

We know how that ended.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3174
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 11:20:06 AM »
I guess I'd ask you this:

Let's say I decide I want to start betting on baseball for real money (thousands of dollars).

I don't have any experience playing baseball beyond elementary school, I only vaguely remember the rules (infield fly rule? balk?), and I haven't been to a game in 20 years. I don't know anyone involved with professional baseball. In short, I have no particular knowledge of the teams/players/game, let alone special or unusual information.

So I start reading ESPN in my spare time and betting based on that information (same as any other random Joe). In my first month, I do pretty well and make $500.

Would you call that beginner's luck, or say that I had some particular talent for baseball gambling?


That's roughly what you're doing here, IMO.

-W

EvenSteven

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 138
  • Location: St. Louis
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 11:41:05 AM »
I guess I'd ask you this:

Let's say I decide I want to start betting on baseball for real money (thousands of dollars).

I don't have any experience playing baseball beyond elementary school, I only vaguely remember the rules (infield fly rule? balk?), and I haven't been to a game in 20 years. I don't know anyone involved with professional baseball. In short, I have no particular knowledge of the teams/players/game, let alone special or unusual information.

So I start reading ESPN in my spare time and betting based on that information (same as any other random Joe). In my first month, I do pretty well and make $500.

Would you call that beginner's luck, or say that I had some particular talent for baseball gambling?


That's roughly what you're doing here, IMO.

-W

I would like to subscribe to your baseball betting news letter.

CorpRaider

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 381
    • The Corpraider Blog
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2019, 12:11:00 PM »
In the first dot com gold rush, there were commercials about day trading. It was easy and everyone was minting money. "Quit your job and become a day trader," the commercials touted.

We know how that ended.

Those commercials are back now.  Check out youtube.  This + all the IPOs slated for this year are pretty interesting to me.  Not that I would make any big moves due to this narrative, but it is amusing.

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3174
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2019, 12:52:57 PM »
I always thought the funniest one was the e-trade ads that had talking babies. Because, you know, if you're easily persuaded/amused by something like talking babies, clearly you're a financial genius and should be trading stocks...

-W

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2019, 05:17:02 PM »
I guess I'd ask you this:

Let's say I decide I want to start betting on baseball for real money (thousands of dollars).

I don't have any experience playing baseball beyond elementary school, I only vaguely remember the rules (infield fly rule? balk?), and I haven't been to a game in 20 years. I don't know anyone involved with professional baseball. In short, I have no particular knowledge of the teams/players/game, let alone special or unusual information.

So I start reading ESPN in my spare time and betting based on that information (same as any other random Joe). In my first month, I do pretty well and make $500.

Would you call that beginner's luck, or say that I had some particular talent for baseball gambling?


That's roughly what you're doing here, IMO.

-W

That's pretty hilarious!  :) Can't quit laughing :)  You're probably right!

TheHardenedInvestor

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 93
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2019, 08:11:11 PM »
Most a picture or it didn’t happen.

ChpBstrd

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1314
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2019, 08:54:58 PM »
Those are not surprising returns. First, we've had an epic rally since January. Second, I suspect you are trading stocks that have more volatility than the marketplace. Volatility is like leverage; it magnifies both gains and losses. Because the market was shooting upward, your leveraged bet shot up even more.

AAPL is up 23% YTD.
AMZN is up 18% YTD.
The S&P 500 is up 14% YTD.

So basically you captured a fraction of the market's return by being in the market a fraction of the time. Had market returns been negative, you might have captured a fraction of the losses.

Side note of interest: TD Ameritrade offers commission-free ETFs, at least one of which has a lower expense ratio than the comparable Vanguard fund. SPTM is a total market ETF comparable to VTI, except SPTM is commission-free. SPTM also has an expense ratio of 0.03% compared to VTI's 0.04%. You could buy one share at a time every single day commission-free as you save up the money if you wanted to, and shares are only about $35.68 compared to VTI at $146.73, which means you'll never be stuck with $100 in sidelined cash in your account. There is an extra fee if you sell within 30 days of buying, but that's not a problem since you are a buy-n-hold investor, right? ;)

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2019, 10:42:05 PM »
I gained 10% in past month whereas VTSAX went up 1.75% in past month.   Not talking about before a month ago.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2019, 10:44:40 PM »

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2019, 10:54:20 PM »
Side note of interest: TD Ameritrade offers commission-free ETFs, at least one of which has a lower expense ratio than the comparable Vanguard fund. SPTM is a total market ETF comparable to VTI, except SPTM is commission-free. SPTM also has an expense ratio of 0.03% compared to VTI's 0.04%.
Side note to the side note (?!): almost all ETFs are commission free at Vanguard, while at TD Ameritrade the selection is limited.  For example, at Vanguard VTI, SCHB, ITOT and SPTM are all $0/trade.  iShares Total Stock Market (ITOT) offers 3500+ stock holdings at a 0.03% expense ratio.

I gained 10% in past month whereas VTSAX went up 1.75% in past month.   Not talking about before a month ago.
People tend to focus on and highlight their success, forgetting the few months or weeks when things didn't go as well.  Still, it's good to keep comparing against VTSAX from the time you started investing to the present.

Side note: The total stock market ETFs gained +2.14% to +2.17% in the past month, which highlights how performance differences in one month can exceed the annual expense ratio.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2019, 11:34:52 AM »
Bleh.. lotta luck past two days again.. getting scary.  I've got a sickness!  Reminds me of when I played blackjack in Vegas. (TSLA stock this time.. sold it all few mins ago.. in cash now.)


waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3174
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2019, 11:51:56 AM »
You made $80 today?!?

WTF? I thought we were talking about vaguely real money here.

You are wasting your time.

-W

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2019, 11:53:34 AM »
You made $80 today?!?

WTF? I thought we were talking about vaguely real money here.

You are wasting your time.

-W

I just started FI a few months ago! I'll add about $800 per month to Robinhod and $1200 per month between IRA and Solo 401k. For the next 20 years.  I have $7k in Facebook right now in my IRA.. locked in for now.

I really just care about my gain % not dollars anyways -- testing my ability at day/swing trading to see if I can beat market or not.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 12:00:47 PM by JenniferW »

waltworks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3174
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2019, 12:09:35 PM »
Well, good luck. Doing well initially with small amounts of money is probably the worst thing that could happen to you, bummer.

-W

SwitchActiveDWG

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
Well, good luck. Doing well initially with small amounts of money is probably the worst thing that could happen to you, bummer.

-W

An appreciable number of us went through this phase. Extremely sub optimal, but at least it isn't max consumerism.

Joe Schmo

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2019, 01:17:04 PM »
Tag

Padonak

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 417
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2019, 01:44:15 PM »
Well, good luck. Doing well initially with small amounts of money is probably the worst thing that could happen to you, bummer.

-W

I also made a lot of investment mistakes when I just started and had little money. At least I didn't lose much in dollar terms.

daverobev

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3292
  • Location: UK
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2019, 02:00:04 PM »
OP, just remember - the 'high' you're feeling now? It feels 4x worse when "beginner's luck, lol" turns against you.

I've had a couple of "punts" go quite poorly. Over the long time, for most people, indexing will see you right. You might be the outlier, but as Walt says, you're being really unlucky in being lucky - you're getting addicted to the highs, you're going to think "you've got it", you're going to think "oh I just need to sell my boring index trackers and I'll make it all back!!", you're going to... shoot yourself in the foot, and set yourself back years. Please don't.

Financial.Velociraptor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Houston TX
  • Devour your prey raptors!
    • Financial Velociraptor
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2019, 02:19:16 PM »
If you are going to be serious about this, at least get the proper training such as a CMT.   Right now, you are just guessing.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2019, 03:43:56 PM »
Thanks for the recommendation.  Any affordable/library books you recommend instead of those courses? (They are quite pricey and I don't need a certification.)

I admit I am a total newbie, but I am not just simply guessing.  I do know how to read charts, candles, volume, and use various indicators like moving averages, RSI, Stoch RSI, etc.. I also pay attention to details like market capitalization, price/earnings ratio, etc.. I read various reports from analysts on a given stock with respect to holding it long term -- I really like to day/swing trade stocks which have positive outlook for long term growth in case I decide to get locked in.  The Thinkorswim Analysis->Fundamentals tab is handy with links to various reports and gives me all the other details about the stock I'm interested in.  Also I read all the overall market news each day and the news regarding stock I'm interested in. I also now how to make use of stop loss / stop limit orders when needed.  I am constantly learning and I make a few mistakes here and there but learn from them.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 03:46:35 PM by JenniferW »

frugledoc

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2019, 04:09:01 PM »
Swing trading is a sure thing and so easy that even a beginner can do it.

That's why you see so many highly experienced fund managers beating the market.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2019, 04:34:53 PM »
An appreciable number of us went through this phase. Extremely sub optimal, but at least it isn't max consumerism.

Doing this day/swing trading is stressful and takes up time; I wish the P/E ratios were at 2009-2012 levels then I'd just do the index fund. I just have a great fear of losing a bunch like what happened starting back in October.

Given the "overvaluation" of the market right now, by day/swing trading with stop loss orders placed when needed, I feel more comfortable knowing I can't lose 20-50% in a short time period in a blindly invested index fund.  That said, I am using Vanguard for my Solo 401k and put in like $500-600 per month into VTSAX -- about 25-30% of what I invest each month.

Whenever the market does tank big, I'll then just buy into a discounted VTI in my IRA and Robinhood accounts.  Then I won't have to think about the market each day.  I'll just buy into VTI each month without even looking at market.

I guess I am partially scarred because I was investing quite a bit in 1998-99 and lost a bunch all at once in the big tech bubble crash.   I didn't even know about stop loss orders then either.  Lost big back then.  Lost a bit back in October (about $250 on $3000 investment).  I seemed to always get into the market at the wrong time! LOL.  So yeah I have a fear of losing big again, with how expensive the stocks are now compared to a decade ago.  Just trying to have some sort of control over it this time.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 04:40:54 PM by JenniferW »

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2019, 04:37:23 PM »
Swing trading is a sure thing and so easy that even a beginner can do it.

That's why you see so many highly experienced fund managers beating the market.

You are being sarcastic right? :)

daverobev

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3292
  • Location: UK
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2019, 04:43:36 PM »
OP, you need a plan.

Make a plan - that tells you how much 'risk' (volatility) you can live with. It may be you want 50/50 stock/bonds.

Remember the catechism - nobody cares more about your money than you do. You worked (possibly hard!) to earn your money; I can understand not wanting to buy at the top (see: the godawful 'top is in' thread, ugh; or that link to the world's unluckiest investor that bought at the top of the market and yet still did just fine), but the fact is - time in the market beats timing the market.

If you want something 'exotic' try the permanent portfolio; but the key is to make a plan and stick to it. Farting around loses you money.

Financial.Velociraptor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Houston TX
  • Devour your prey raptors!
    • Financial Velociraptor
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2019, 07:15:32 PM »
Thanks for the recommendation.  Any affordable/library books you recommend instead of those courses? (They are quite pricey and I don't need a certification.)

I admit I am a total newbie, but I am not just simply guessing.  I do know how to read charts, candles, volume, and use various indicators like moving averages, RSI, Stoch RSI, etc.. I also pay attention to details like market capitalization, price/earnings ratio, etc.. I read various reports from analysts on a given stock with respect to holding it long term -- I really like to day/swing trade stocks which have positive outlook for long term growth in case I decide to get locked in.  The Thinkorswim Analysis->Fundamentals tab is handy with links to various reports and gives me all the other details about the stock I'm interested in.  Also I read all the overall market news each day and the news regarding stock I'm interested in. I also now how to make use of stop loss / stop limit orders when needed.  I am constantly learning and I make a few mistakes here and there but learn from them.

No recommended books.  I'm an options trader focusing on 6 to 8 week expiries and increasingly calendar spreads.  I don't put much emphasis on chart work.  And my goal isn't to maximize returns but rather to limit risk.  You can read more at my blog but I suspect what I do is too pedestrian for you.  Day/swing traders tend to be adrenaline junkies.  What I do is boring (at least when I do it right). 

Indexer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1338
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2019, 08:40:11 PM »
Consider something, if it was this easy, so easy that someone could jump in with no training... then why do financial professionals go through all the trouble, studying, and $$$ to get educated on this? Why don't they just buy a stock and put in a stop loss order with a limit? I mean, that seems so easy. Then consider that these professionals have all the training, know how to do stop limit orders, not to mention more advanced strategies, and the overwhelming majority still underperform the market.

Also consider the few individual stock investor who actually outperform the market tend to do very little trading. They buy things they like for the long term. Studies have shown that the more trading you do the more likely you are to have sub optimal returns.

Resources:

Books:  The Intelligent Investor.  Warren Buffett credit's the teachings in this book with a lot of his success.

Random Walk Down WallStreet.

frugledoc

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2019, 11:58:33 PM »
Thanks for the recommendation.  Any affordable/library books you recommend instead of those courses? (They are quite pricey and I don't need a certification.)

I admit I am a total newbie, but I am not just simply guessing.  I do know how to read charts, candles, volume, and use various indicators like moving averages, RSI, Stoch RSI, etc.. I also pay attention to details like market capitalization, price/earnings ratio, etc.. I read various reports from analysts on a given stock with respect to holding it long term -- I really like to day/swing trade stocks which have positive outlook for long term growth in case I decide to get locked in.  The Thinkorswim Analysis->Fundamentals tab is handy with links to various reports and gives me all the other details about the stock I'm interested in.  Also I read all the overall market news each day and the news regarding stock I'm interested in. I also now how to make use of stop loss / stop limit orders when needed.  I am constantly learning and I make a few mistakes here and there but learn from them.

No recommended books.  I'm an options trader focusing on 6 to 8 week expiries and increasingly calendar spreads.  I don't put much emphasis on chart work.  And my goal isn't to maximize returns but rather to limit risk.  You can read more at my blog but I suspect what I do is too pedestrian for you.  Day/swing traders tend to be adrenaline junkies.  What I do is boring (at least when I do it right).

Why would you blog about a successful strategy?  Surely you should just focus on getting rich.  Sorry, but there are spam adverts all over Facebook saying the same thing.

ApacheStache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • Location: Denver
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2019, 01:12:19 AM »
I think you're just asking for permission for something you want to do but know you "shouldn't".

Consider this your permission. It's your money - do whatever you want with it. Enjoy.

Agreed. I'd be concerned that the adrenaline rush of "gambling" is going to slowly take over and you're going to feel more and more comfortable and empowered in risking larger and larger sums of money. It would suck to be halfway to FIRE and swing trade a large sum of money only to lose it all in hopes of gaining a few hundred to a thousand dollars. Ultimately, there are safer and more predictable ways to grow your stash. Best of luck though.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2019, 06:09:32 AM »
I think I posted it more for someone to talk me out of it rather than get permission honestly.

Indexer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1338
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2019, 06:13:38 AM »
I think I posted it more for someone to talk me out of it rather than get permission honestly.

Read Random Walk down WallStreet.

"The Little book of common sense Investing" is also a good one. It's really hard to argue with Bogle's common sense and math.

JenniferW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2019, 06:16:37 AM »
Thanks I have both of those sitting here, got them from library a little while ago.  Read bits from each here and there.  I need to read them both in their entirety soon. 

Financial.Velociraptor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1394
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Houston TX
  • Devour your prey raptors!
    • Financial Velociraptor
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2019, 07:14:19 AM »

Why would you blog about a successful strategy?  Surely you should just focus on getting rich.  Sorry, but there are spam adverts all over Facebook saying the same thing.

At first it was to meet more members of my "tribe".  The blog is kind of a bust for that.  Now it is mostly a matter of keeping myself accountable.  Unlike a lot of trading bloggers, I post my losing trades as well. 

And my focus isn't on "getting rich".  It is on maintaining a modest lifestyle in "skinny FIRE" with an asset base under half a million.  I might die "rich" but not like a lot of the indexers who worked a decade longer than I did.

But I get it.  My thing isn't for you.  Really, indexing is a fine strategy.  I've had no fewer than 5 friends and family members who approached me about how they should invest.  After discussing their goals, risk tolerance, and knowledge, I recommended to all of them low cost indexing.  It is where (most) people should be.  Good luck @frugledoc

Blueberries

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 186
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2019, 08:20:11 AM »
Thanks for the recommendation.  Any affordable/library books you recommend instead of those courses? (They are quite pricey and I don't need a certification.)

I admit I am a total newbie, but I am not just simply guessing.  I do know how to read charts, candles, volume, and use various indicators like moving averages, RSI, Stoch RSI, etc.. I also pay attention to details like market capitalization, price/earnings ratio, etc.. I read various reports from analysts on a given stock with respect to holding it long term -- I really like to day/swing trade stocks which have positive outlook for long term growth in case I decide to get locked in.  The Thinkorswim Analysis->Fundamentals tab is handy with links to various reports and gives me all the other details about the stock I'm interested in.  Also I read all the overall market news each day and the news regarding stock I'm interested in. I also now how to make use of stop loss / stop limit orders when needed.  I am constantly learning and I make a few mistakes here and there but learn from them.

No recommended books.  I'm an options trader focusing on 6 to 8 week expiries and increasingly calendar spreads.  I don't put much emphasis on chart work.  And my goal isn't to maximize returns but rather to limit risk.  You can read more at my blog but I suspect what I do is too pedestrian for you.  Day/swing traders tend to be adrenaline junkies.  What I do is boring (at least when I do it right).

Why would you blog about a successful strategy?  Surely you should just focus on getting rich.  Sorry, but there are spam adverts all over Facebook saying the same thing.

There are many books out there with successful strategies that only cost $15+.  Most people want to be fed the information, though.  They don't want to do anything more than hit "buy" or "sell".  Even when they are fed, they don't consistently follow the recommendations because ... psychology. 

For the above type of person, indexing is perfect. 

ScarElbow

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 80
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2019, 01:38:04 PM »
Learners evolve into winners. Losers disappear into the 90%. Bottom line, be a student of the game

frugledoc

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2019, 01:38:43 PM »

Why would you blog about a successful strategy?  Surely you should just focus on getting rich.  Sorry, but there are spam adverts all over Facebook saying the same thing.

At first it was to meet more members of my "tribe".  The blog is kind of a bust for that.  Now it is mostly a matter of keeping myself accountable.  Unlike a lot of trading bloggers, I post my losing trades as well. 

And my focus isn't on "getting rich".  It is on maintaining a modest lifestyle in "skinny FIRE" with an asset base under half a million.  I might die "rich" but not like a lot of the indexers who worked a decade longer than I did.

But I get it.  My thing isn't for you.  Really, indexing is a fine strategy.  I've had no fewer than 5 friends and family members who approached me about how they should invest.  After discussing their goals, risk tolerance, and knowledge, I recommended to all of them low cost indexing.  It is where (most) people should be.  Good luck @frugledoc

Thanks for the honest answer, good luck to you too

frugledoc

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
Re: Been day/swing trading my retirement account
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2019, 01:40:51 PM »
Learners evolve into winners. Losers disappear into the 90%. Bottom line, be a student of the game

Iím not interested in a game where 90% of participants lose money