Author Topic: Australian Investing Thread  (Read 1126605 times)

Rob_S

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4100 on: July 03, 2018, 04:02:58 AM »
Estimated Vanuguard Australian Shares (VAS) distribution payable on July 17 is $1.02 per unit.

Chomp chomp, reinvested will be another 33 shares for me :) And with a big fat tax return and (hopefully a) work bonus too I will be loading up on some more this quarter.

@Rob_S - the VHY one is $1.79! Quite the very high yield it is turning out to be.

Hi Marty! I was pleasantly surprised by the divie. I recently posted my overall thoughts on VHY in my MMM journal. It has strengths as well as weaknesses that aren't obvious at first glance or at least weren't obvious when I came up with the strategy a few years ago. VHY has been getting a lot of flack lately in investment circles and I reckon its over investment in Telstra is a yield trap similar to BHP and RIO from a few years back. Its lack of capital growth was also getting me down. However the sweet sweet dividends make up for that every time they roll around.

Grogounet

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4101 on: July 03, 2018, 05:48:49 AM »
i trade mostly directly in the us... voo vea etc etc.. can t figure out an easy way on the ib platform to know my returns

BattlaP

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4102 on: July 03, 2018, 09:59:30 PM »
Another gigantic quarterly dividend for our Vanguard funds.. like 4.5% on the High Growth LifeStrategy..

Impossible to plan for that kind of shit, particularly when estimate annual income for FTB, childcare etc. I don't feel like we receive any adequate notice, maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to the right emails.

bigchrisb

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4103 on: July 04, 2018, 01:04:30 AM »
Another gigantic quarterly dividend for our Vanguard funds.. like 4.5% on the High Growth LifeStrategy..

Impossible to plan for that kind of shit, particularly when estimate annual income for FTB, childcare etc. I don't feel like we receive any adequate notice, maybe I'm just not paying enough attention to the right emails.

One of the reasons for the large distribution component from index funds was the sale of Westfield to Unibail Rodamco.  About a third of this was cash, two thirds URW securities.  The cash element came out as a distribution.  When you consider the size of WFD in the Australian index, this significantly boosted this quarter's distribution.

Its also one of the reasons I'm a bit hesitant about treating index fund distributions the same way as a dividend from other shares - they often include elements of capital being distributed along the income, however the breakout of this ins't always apparent at the time.  I try not to fall into the trap of thinking that if I only draw-down index fund distributions that I will be preserving my capital holdings - not the case.

 

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4104 on: July 05, 2018, 11:36:01 PM »
CGT Question on Shares:  When calculating CGT for property you have a baseline of an overall amount that you paid for the purchase of the property to work off. However with shares as these grow gradually, and purchase cost will vary, how does the CGT get calculated if there is no baseline to work off? Thanks.

PDM

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4105 on: July 05, 2018, 11:57:07 PM »
CGT Question on Shares:  When calculating CGT for property you have a baseline of an overall amount that you paid for the purchase of the property to work off. However with shares as these grow gradually, and purchase cost will vary, how does the CGT get calculated if there is no baseline to work off? Thanks.

By each parcel you bought - that is your purchase price for CGT purposes. Can be many different transactions.

mjr

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4106 on: July 06, 2018, 12:00:25 AM »
and to answer your next question, yes if you have many parcels then this becomes complicated.  If you have many many months of dividend reinvestment, then that's a lot of CGT calculations when you sell.

Grogounet

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4107 on: July 06, 2018, 12:05:13 AM »
no choice: an excel file with dop price and exact date + same for dividends

potm

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4108 on: July 06, 2018, 01:36:24 AM »
Check out https://www.sharesight.com/au/

Should be able to calculate for you if you set it up properly. Not sure if CGT calc comes woth the free version.

mjr

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4109 on: July 06, 2018, 01:51:22 AM »
The free version does CGT reporting.  The free version is available if you have 10 or fewer stocks in the portfolio.

marty998

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4110 on: July 06, 2018, 02:15:24 AM »
no choice: an excel file with drp price and exact date + same for dividends

And each year lop a bit off each parcel proportionately for the tax deferred distribution component.

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4111 on: July 06, 2018, 03:42:42 AM »
no choice: an excel file with drp price and exact date + same for dividends

And each year lop a bit off each parcel proportionately for the tax deferred distribution component.

Thanks for everyone's feedback.

I thought it might be a bit complicated. Ok, so Vanguard provides me with a yearly tax summary statement - so I think I might start with that. As well a complete transaction history which I can bring into a spreadsheet.

But I am still confused as to what to do calculation wise. How can I work out the CGT impact of removing say $50k from a an overall portfolio value of $1M....when the first investment in the Wholesale Balanced Vanguard Fund started back in 2016, at around $200k, and since then I have been adding more funds and reinvesting the distributions. This means that some of the recent earnings in the portfolio may not allow the 50% CGT discount rate. Or does the CGT just look at the start date of the portfolio, as opposed to top up dates to make that determination? 

Also I don't know when building the calculations if I take an average of the purchase price to date for units and then compare that to the current value to sell the units to see what loss or gain has been made by understanding the averages. I can't think of how else you can do it. I hope I am making sense!

I know I will have to get my accountant involved, however, I like to try to work things out for myself so I have a better understanding of it all.


PDM

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4112 on: July 06, 2018, 03:54:11 AM »
You'll need to identify which units you are selling to make up the $50k. The ASX doesn't care and thinks they're all the same, but the ATO does.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Shares,-units-and-similar-investments/Identifying-when-shares-or-units-are-acquired/

Basically you don't use averages at all.

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4113 on: July 06, 2018, 04:56:39 AM »
You'll need to identify which units you are selling to make up the $50k. The ASX doesn't care and thinks they're all the same, but the ATO does.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Shares,-units-and-similar-investments/Identifying-when-shares-or-units-are-acquired/

Basically you don't use averages at all.

Thanks for this article. It is very helpful. It looks like you can the determine the units to baseline against  - which in some ways seems a bit flawed, as I guessing most people woud choose units to be suit / limit their CGT impacts.

Also there was this quote at the end of the article about averages:

We'll also accept an average cost method to determine the cost of the shares disposed of if:

    the shares are in the same company
    the shares were acquired on the same day
    the shares have identical rights and obligations
    you're not required to use market value for cost base purposes.

Grogounet

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4114 on: July 09, 2018, 03:28:06 PM »
thanks for the note at the end of the article and it leaves me to say that there is still room for interpretation. i m still find an accountant who REALLY understand what he is talking about and doesn t charge a ridiculous amount for it.

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4115 on: July 09, 2018, 04:31:47 PM »
So just read this in my Tax Information from Vanguard regarding Wholesale Funds:

AMIT is a significant industry-wide reform, which introduces new concessional tax rules for managed investment trusts. Under the AMIT regime, investors will be assessed on the taxable income that is ‘attributed’ to them by a Fund on a ‘fair and reasonable’ basis (called ‘attribution’ of income)

Can anyone explain simple terms what this means - I have tried to work out from the ATO site - but too confusing for me.


Notch

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4116 on: July 09, 2018, 04:54:52 PM »
So just read this in my Tax Information from Vanguard regarding Wholesale Funds:

AMIT is a significant industry-wide reform, which introduces new concessional tax rules for managed investment trusts. Under the AMIT regime, investors will be assessed on the taxable income that is ‘attributed’ to them by a Fund on a ‘fair and reasonable’ basis (called ‘attribution’ of income)

Can anyone explain simple terms what this means - I have tried to work out from the ATO site - but too confusing for me.

The biggest change for us is that when a Vanguard fund distributes more 'tax obligations' than it does cash, you can increase the cost base of your units.

This is to stop double taxation of capital gains that occurs when Vanguard sells shares to payout leaving unitholders, and ends up realising large capital gain 'tax obligations' that it then has to distribute to the remaining unitholders but doesn't have any corresponding cash to pass along with it.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 05:34:49 PM by Notch »

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4117 on: July 11, 2018, 02:11:36 AM »
So just read this in my Tax Information from Vanguard regarding Wholesale Funds:

AMIT is a significant industry-wide reform, which introduces new concessional tax rules for managed investment trusts. Under the AMIT regime, investors will be assessed on the taxable income that is ‘attributed’ to them by a Fund on a ‘fair and reasonable’ basis (called ‘attribution’ of income)

Can anyone explain simple terms what this means - I have tried to work out from the ATO site - but too confusing for me.

The biggest change for us is that when a Vanguard fund distributes more 'tax obligations' than it does cash, you can increase the cost base of your units.

This is to stop double taxation of capital gains that occurs when Vanguard sells shares to payout leaving unitholders, and ends up realising large capital gain 'tax obligations' that it then has to distribute to the remaining unitholders but doesn't have any corresponding cash to pass along with it.

Thanks Notch. I guess that's why each June payout (in the past) has been so significant. However overall do you think this will have a negative or postive impact for investors?

marty998

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4118 on: July 11, 2018, 05:28:33 AM »
So just read this in my Tax Information from Vanguard regarding Wholesale Funds:

AMIT is a significant industry-wide reform, which introduces new concessional tax rules for managed investment trusts. Under the AMIT regime, investors will be assessed on the taxable income that is ‘attributed’ to them by a Fund on a ‘fair and reasonable’ basis (called ‘attribution’ of income)

Can anyone explain simple terms what this means - I have tried to work out from the ATO site - but too confusing for me.

The biggest change for us is that when a Vanguard fund distributes more 'tax obligations' than it does cash, you can increase the cost base of your units.

This is to stop double taxation of capital gains that occurs when Vanguard sells shares to payout leaving unitholders, and ends up realising large capital gain 'tax obligations' that it then has to distribute to the remaining unitholders but doesn't have any corresponding cash to pass along with it.

Thanks Notch. I guess that's why each June payout (in the past) has been so significant. However overall do you think this will have a negative or postive impact for investors?

It's a positive. It's designed to stop instances where for example a large investor invests into the fund on say June 29, and materially changes the allocation of the income earned between all investors for that quarter.

I am far too distracted watching Origin to write an example, but I think you can figure it out ;)

Grogounet

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4119 on: July 11, 2018, 07:45:06 PM »
Still very confusing and I guess so confusing you can contest in case of issue with the ATO.

mjr

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4120 on: July 12, 2018, 02:18:51 AM »
Still very confusing and I guess so confusing you can contest in case of issue with the ATO.

That is NOT how the ATO works.  If you're confused, that's your problem.  While they're mostly happy to help answer questions, they're not particularly interested if you try and contest their opinion.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 02:20:47 AM by mjr »

lush

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4121 on: July 12, 2018, 05:44:28 PM »
So just read this in my Tax Information from Vanguard regarding Wholesale Funds:

AMIT is a significant industry-wide reform, which introduces new concessional tax rules for managed investment trusts. Under the AMIT regime, investors will be assessed on the taxable income that is ‘attributed’ to them by a Fund on a ‘fair and reasonable’ basis (called ‘attribution’ of income)

Can anyone explain simple terms what this means - I have tried to work out from the ATO site - but too confusing for me.

The biggest change for us is that when a Vanguard fund distributes more 'tax obligations' than it does cash, you can increase the cost base of your units.

This is to stop double taxation of capital gains that occurs when Vanguard sells shares to payout leaving unitholders, and ends up realising large capital gain 'tax obligations' that it then has to distribute to the remaining unitholders but doesn't have any corresponding cash to pass along with it.

Thanks Notch. I guess that's why each June payout (in the past) has been so significant. However overall do you think this will have a negative or postive impact for investors?

It's a positive. It's designed to stop instances where for example a large investor invests into the fund on say June 29, and materially changes the allocation of the income earned between all investors for that quarter.

I am far too distracted watching Origin to write an example, but I think you can figure it out ;)

Thanks Marty - yep I get it now! Cheers!

mjr

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4122 on: July 20, 2018, 04:06:49 PM »
Did anyone get their VTS dividend payment yesterday ?  Mine are nowhere to be seen.

FFF

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4123 on: July 20, 2018, 05:30:58 PM »
Did anyone get their VTS dividend payment yesterday ?  Mine are nowhere to be seen.

Likewise mjr, nothing received for VTS and VEU either. It’s usually in my ING account by the evening so glad to hear I’m not the only one. I’m sure it’ll be in on Monday, hopefully it’s just because the payment was made on a Friday this time - can’t wait for the NPP to be fully functional!

Primm

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Re: Australian Investing Thread
« Reply #4124 on: July 21, 2018, 11:54:58 PM »
Did anyone get their VTS dividend payment yesterday ?  Mine are nowhere to be seen.

Likewise mjr, nothing received for VTS and VEU either. It’s usually in my ING account by the evening so glad to hear I’m not the only one. I’m sure it’ll be in on Monday, hopefully it’s just because the payment was made on a Friday this time - can’t wait for the NPP to be fully functional!

Same. Got the email but no money.