Author Topic: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?  (Read 2498 times)

Alchemisst

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Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« on: March 30, 2019, 07:31:17 PM »
Most people seem to be focussed on using index funds for their investments, are many people using alternatives such as making their own stock portfolio's (long term) Or dividend investing or real estate or anything else?

SwordGuy

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 07:38:06 PM »
We have 4 different sources of income:

1) social security  45% of budgeted FIRE amount.
2) index funds     75%.
3) rental homes   27%.
4) rental farm income.  27%. (inherited this one.)

I like having different sources that are somewhat uncorrelated.

We were being extra cautious before FIRING and also inherited a fair bit 1 year from our planned FIRE date, which is why we're over-saved.

Judicator

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2019, 02:34:44 PM »
We have 4 different sources of income:

1) social security  45% of budgeted FIRE amount.
2) index funds     75%.
3) rental homes   27%.
4) rental farm income.  27%. (inherited this one.)

I like having different sources that are somewhat uncorrelated.

We were being extra cautious before FIRING and also inherited a fair bit 1 year from our planned FIRE date, which is why we're over-saved.

Out of curiosity, did your FIRE model assume that social security pays out as expected right now with no cuts/increases to the retirement age?

Rob_bob

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 03:13:50 PM »
Not retired yet, next year. The bulk is in index ETFs but I do sprinkle in some individual stocks and REITs and CEFs.

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 04:02:33 PM »
Revenue % of current expense level, based on income projected from now until The End:

50% rental real estate
25% index funds (70-75% stock, 25-30% bonds/cash)
15% pension
15% SS
_______
105%

FIREd 50something. Chronologically, drawing down financial investments to supplement rental cash until pension starts; play it by ear as to when to draw SS. Depending on personal factors and surprise expenses, might or might not sell real estate at some point and go with higher % of index funds. SS assumes 30% benefit cut.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 04:06:57 PM by BicycleB »

FIREstache

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 05:01:32 PM »
Fiftysomething about a year from FIRE.

This is just a rough estimate averaging out over FIRE.

20% social security
50% stock/bond funds - mostly index
30% fixed interest fund / CDs / government bonds / treasuries

I assume SS will pay out 100% of currenltly calculated benefits, however, over 50% of my expected FIRE budget is discretionary, so if SS benfits are cut, it should just mean a reduction in available discretionary dollars without financial hardships.

Buffalo Chip

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 05:12:42 PM »
Yup. I put most into treasuries. You see, Iím not very bright. I havenít been able to wrap my brain around this idea that stocks trading at twice the median Shiller PE ratio means that Iíll win. So I donít bother.

robartsd

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 05:47:43 PM »
Most people seem to be focussed on using index funds for their investments, are many people using alternatives such as making their own stock portfolio's (long term) Or dividend investing or real estate or anything else?
Stock picking is harder/more expensive than index funds - sure you could get lucky and hit it out of the park, but you could also completely strike out if you don't diversify enough.

Plenty on these forums that make real estate or other businesses they create a significant part of gaining financial independence.

Stimpy

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2019, 01:20:31 PM »
I'll admit, I haven't really looked too much at what percentages I am invested yet.  Mainly cause I am still diversifying and trying to build out a stable income model of some sort.  I know what I am doing is not folllowing the straight ETF model of most people here, though I support and encourage others to do so, cause it's simple.  I like a little complication and experimentation in my life.....

Right now I look something like this:
Stocks: 30%
ETFs/Indices  55%
Realestate 5%
Bonds/Treasuries/Other 10%


I expect it to become more mature as the years progress into something along this line:
Stocks: 35%
ETFs/Indices  20%
Realestate 35%
Bonds/Treasuries/Other 10%

But who knows.   

Other does not include any SS, cause who knows what the next 30-40 years will bring for that.  (Note: Not saying it will go away, but the min age might progress up or some other requirement added in or... who knows.  Only going to depend on what have and know for now.  If I get SS, it's a bonus!)

If you want to not do a straight ETF route, I would probably start with adding real estate.  It's easier to understand and get right, then if you decide to pick stocks.  Plus has the added benefit of being physical.  (Land is always worth something, even when everything else hits bottom)   After that, only then would i add stocks and only if you really want to.  (It IS a time sink to do it right.)

I am aware of other alternative investments out there not mentioned here (yet) but I'd stick with what's been listed so far.  Just easier that way.

efree

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2019, 02:30:40 PM »
My portfolio is still relatively small but most of it is in P2P lending platforms. That may not be a viable option for everyone but it's a good choice for Europeans, in my opinion. Mintos is the leading platform and you can park 10-20% of your capital there (and in many other platforms). I like this type of investment because the interest rates are high and because I know the interest rate before I invest my money (as opposed to stocks).

Villanelle

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 11:46:12 AM »
Don't know the percentages because unlike most here, I don't spend much time at all looking at the numbers.

Our plan revolves around
an inflation adjusted pension
equities
bonds (not very many as I consider the pension to serve basically the same purpose)
real estate

There is some possibility we might ditch some or all (two properties) of the RE as we are currently renting and will likely want to buy at some point.  The down payment could come from selling RE, selling equities, or a HELOC. 

peterk

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2019, 10:01:36 AM »
My portfolio is still relatively small but most of it is in P2P lending platforms. That may not be a viable option for everyone but it's a good choice for Europeans, in my opinion. Mintos is the leading platform and you can park 10-20% of your capital there (and in many other platforms). I like this type of investment because the interest rates are high and because I know the interest rate before I invest my money (as opposed to stocks).

I agree with your choice of Mintos. I like it a lot myself. You might be interested in reading about some other platforms as well at my blog @ P2P Income. You can look into the best p2p lending platforms (in my opinion) which includes platforms like Envestio and [https://p2pincome.eu/crowdestor-review/]Crowdestor[/url]. Both of them are for a little more high risk/high return.

CorpRaider

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 01:03:59 PM »
Yes, I allocate to some other stuff.  Definitely not using a 100% VTI/VTSAX allocation.

I would guess that many of us suffer from overconfidence w/r/t to the amount of volatility we can stomach in our portfolios and won't realize that until we get into the next big bear market.  I think Dr. Bill Bernstein (among many others) has written about the research indicating that people generally are overconfident and this also shows up prominently in the self-assessed risk/volatility appetite, especially when no one has endured the pain of a big drawdown in a while (which basically has not occurred since the FIRE community became a thing).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:06:53 PM by CorpRaider »

Enigma

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2019, 02:12:37 PM »
1.475M Rental Properties
  -- 1.146M (Paid off) / 0.329M (Debt)
  -- Monthly Income ~ $16k & Expenses ~$8k

0.207M Retirement Accounts (401k/Traditional IRA/HSA)
  -- 75% Stock Funds, 21.5% Bond Funds, 3.5% REIT Funds

0.011M Taxible Accounts

May become more aggressive at increasing my taxible index funds accounts that I will be more willing to tap into.

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2019, 03:43:55 PM »
We get about 30% of our budget from rental RE, the rest from index funds.

Going straight index funds is a perfectly reasonable thing to do also, though. Our RE was easy money ($75 for property that nets close to $18k a year after expenses).

Keep in mind that for FIRE, you're better off with shares you can sell (keeping your taxable income low) than RE income or dividends that will cost you a lot more in taxes.

-W

vand

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 04:06:58 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 04:16:16 AM by vand »

FIREstache

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 05:18:40 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.

Enigma

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 05:30:45 AM »
...Keep in mind that for FIRE, you're better off with shares you can sell (keeping your taxable income low) than RE income or dividends that will cost you a lot more in taxes.-W
Yeah, I was trying to retire early back in Oct.  Well I bought another rental SFH via auction and before I knew it property taxes/property insurance and personal taxes all became due at once.  Didnt help my employer messed up my personal taxes because i was working overseas.  Changing gears...

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 06:42:23 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.
It's responses like this that make conversations taboo. There are some of us who wish folks like @vand would explain more, but @FIREstache 's response kills the conversation. Ever heard of "agree to disagree"?
Plus, the OP asked for alternatives, not for someone to come and crap over the thread. If you don't have anything to contribute constructively to the conversation, not posting is an option.

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 06:46:58 AM »
Yes.

~ 0.5M in Residential RE (market value, purchase price is half that), ~60k annual rental income (gross)
~ 50k in high-yielding CDs and treasuries in a foreign country (over 10% pa)
~ 400k in Vanguard index funds
~ 200k cash (dry powder for distressed properties cash purchase)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 06:49:21 AM by jinga nation »

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 07:25:53 AM »
It's responses like this that make conversations taboo. There are some of us who wish folks like @vand would explain more, but @FIREstache 's response kills the conversation. Ever heard of "agree to disagree"?
Plus, the OP asked for alternatives, not for someone to come and crap over the thread. If you don't have anything to contribute constructively to the conversation, not posting is an option.

I could propose that OP head to Vegas with his entire NW in $100 bills, too. Should we discuss the downsides of that strategy, or not? Massive piles of data show active stock picking to be a terrible idea. People luck out, of course, as we'd expect given the random walk nature of the market, and then they come on here and tell everyone how well it works. Strangely, those same folks don't stick around for multiple years, or usually post their trades before they make them...

If you are looking to learn about investing from strangers on an internet forum, you should not be picking stocks. Full stop. If you're a self-starter who is very smart and willing to put in a ton of hours doing research (essentially making it your full time job) you.... still should not be picking stocks, probably.

-W

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2019, 08:23:05 AM »
It's responses like this that make conversations taboo. There are some of us who wish folks like @vand would explain more, but @FIREstache 's response kills the conversation. Ever heard of "agree to disagree"?
Plus, the OP asked for alternatives, not for someone to come and crap over the thread. If you don't have anything to contribute constructively to the conversation, not posting is an option.

I could propose that OP head to Vegas with his entire NW in $100 bills, too. Should we discuss the downsides of that strategy, or not? Massive piles of data show active stock picking to be a terrible idea. People luck out, of course, as we'd expect given the random walk nature of the market, and then they come on here and tell everyone how well it works. Strangely, those same folks don't stick around for multiple years, or usually post their trades before they make them...

If you are looking to learn about investing from strangers on an internet forum, you should not be picking stocks. Full stop. If you're a self-starter who is very smart and willing to put in a ton of hours doing research (essentially making it your full time job) you.... still should not be picking stocks, probably.

-W

Didn't realize I was at BogleHeads. No outside the box opinions here... Mr MM was outside the box himself, like many FIRE folks.
I did learn about investing in mutual funds and selecting Vanguard from strangers on internet forums. Is that also bad?

Nice of you to take it to the extremes. Please also talk about going full tilt into crypto and H&B. Notice that no one talked extremes until your Vegas comment?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:25:41 AM by jinga nation »

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2019, 08:31:06 AM »
Feel free to be as offended as you'd like. I'm trying to help people who need useful advice.

-W

vand

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 08:54:53 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.


You make far too many assumptions...

I wasn't even talking about individual stock picking. I take sector specific views.


You know why most funds don't beat the market? Because most funds are designed to provide exposure to a particular sector, area, or investment style, all of which are cyclical. As a private investor you are not betrothed to any particular investment style, sector, or area. If you think that techs will do relatively poorly in the next decade and commodities will flourish, you are free to switch your investment from techs to commodities. Most fund managers can't do that.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 09:06:19 AM by vand »

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 09:05:23 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.
See, I wasn't even talking about individual stock picking. I take sector specific views.

You make far too many assumptions...
Isn't that picking on semantics?  The other poster was referring to active investing, which certainly includes sector rotation based on "value" characteristics.  All styles of active are called "stock picking" even if you're selecting sector ETFs to do so.

Not to cause whiplash by seeming to support it, but have you considered starting an experiment?  Where you track your (sector) picks against the S&P 500?  I did that with "sector momentum", but eventually opened it up to any ETF with momentum.  I've read a lot of books about a value premium, and if it's still alive and well, picking the lowest P/E or price/book sectors might beat the S&P 500 over long periods of time.  (It worked for Warren Buffet - but he also used other factors, plus leverage)

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2019, 09:06:31 AM »
Exactly. some of us want to learn about sectors from strangers on this forum. it's not like I'm going to go 100% gold or cannabis or whatever is in vogue at the moment.
I want to hear contrarian views, not be in a bubble of same-same talk. Gets fucking boring when everyone is "MeToo" on SP500 or VTSAX.
If I want to spend 1-5% of my investments in sectors or alternatives, that's my prerogative. A loss on that won't change my FIRE date.
I'm FI, I love my routine, industry, family and fitness time, but I want to learn more about alternatives. I'll do my due diligence and based on my risk tolerance, make a decision. I can live with the consequences.

vand

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2019, 09:14:06 AM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.
See, I wasn't even talking about individual stock picking. I take sector specific views.

You make far too many assumptions...
Isn't that picking on semantics?  The other poster was referring to active investing, which certainly includes sector rotation based on "value" characteristics.  All styles of active are called "stock picking" even if you're selecting sector ETFs to do so.

Not to cause whiplash by seeming to support it, but have you considered starting an experiment?  Where you track your (sector) picks against the S&P 500?  I did that with "sector momentum", but eventually opened it up to any ETF with momentum.  I've read a lot of books about a value premium, and if it's still alive and well, picking the lowest P/E or price/book sectors might beat the S&P 500 over long periods of time.  (It worked for Warren Buffet - but he also used other factors, plus leverage)

I don't think it's symatics; there is a large grey area between picking penny stocks and buying Vanguard total world index. 

I consider myself a top-down macro investor, my investment views are driven by how the macroeconomic environment will be shaped and how that will affect particular sectors. I will not touch the best run or cheapest retail operation if I don't think retail is a good place to put my money.

A stock picker is a bottom up investor, they look for good companies (either value or growth) regardless of what line of business it operates and believes in the firm's ability to thrive and continue growing regardless of the macroeconomic forces at play.

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2019, 12:04:17 PM »
I want to hear contrarian views, not be in a bubble of same-same talk. Gets fucking boring when everyone is "MeToo" on SP500 or VTSAX.

I'm FI, I love my routine, industry, family and fitness time, but I want to learn more about alternatives. I'll do my due diligence and based on my risk tolerance, make a decision. I can live with the consequences.

FWIW, indexing *is* (or at least was) the contrarian way to invest for decades. The MMM forums in general are about as "contrarian" as you can possibly get...

You sound awfully defensive about this, but if you're FI (good for you) and want to play around with extra cash investing in whatever you want, you should be over at SeekingAlpha or something, not here. People here are mostly pretty uninterested in money except as a means to an end, and hence uninterested (especially once FI) in putting time and effort into and endeavor that is vanishingly unlikely to provide any sort of useful return.

-W


BicycleB

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2019, 12:40:53 PM »
Exactly. some of us want to learn about sectors from strangers on this forum. it's not like I'm going to go 100% gold or cannabis or whatever is in vogue at the moment.
I want to hear contrarian views, not be in a bubble of same-same talk. Gets fucking boring when everyone is "MeToo" on SP500 or VTSAX.
If I want to spend 1-5% of my investments in sectors or alternatives, that's my prerogative. A loss on that won't change my FIRE date.
I'm FI, I love my routine, industry, family and fitness time, but I want to learn more about alternatives. I'll do my due diligence and based on my risk tolerance, make a decision. I can live with the consequences.

I agree. I clicked into this thread hoping for interesting alternatives and some discussion of their details.

Stimpy

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2019, 01:20:23 PM »

FWIW, indexing *is* (or at least was) the contrarian way to invest for decades. The MMM forums in general are about as "contrarian" as you can possibly get...

You sound awfully defensive about this, but if you're FI (good for you) and want to play around with extra cash investing in whatever you want, you should be over at SeekingAlpha or something, not here. People here are mostly pretty uninterested in money except as a means to an end, and hence uninterested (especially once FI) in putting time and effort into and endeavor that is vanishingly unlikely to provide any sort of useful return.

-W

My two cents.  This is Investory Alley, not How did you index today.   

I would expect some additional views beyond the usual.  I happen to agree that the usual, as far as MMM investing goes, is a good choice most of the time, but some talk on other ways can be enlightening.  Even if the enlightenment is stay the hell away from that cause your gonna get eaten alive. 

So yes, this, dividend investing, real estate , and more should be talked about here.  It will never become a resource for that type of information but it does make all of us better investors overall, just by the fact we can talk about it.  I'd be surprised if you and others hadn't learned a thing or two because of such posts.

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2019, 02:04:46 PM »
Actually there's a whole (good) forum on RE investing. Check it out!

-W

FIREstache

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2019, 05:55:13 PM »
yeah.. of course there's some of us who hold something other than Vanguard trackers, but its has become taboo to actually come out and openly say such things.

I hold funds and position my investments according to how I see the world changing over the next 5-20 years. I like beaten down sectors that I see recovering and going on to have a new bull market. Amid all the FAANGs powered general bull market, my best performing fund in the last 3 years has been JPM Natural Resources. Between 2012-2017 I doubled my money buying Japanese stocks when nobody would go near them (remember Fukishuma?)

If your investing expertise goes as far as "buy the market over the long term" then you should probably stick to Vanguard trackers. I actually like the challenge of active investment, not just blindly lumping my faith into "general equities"

Some people actively manage stock picking for a living, and they still can't beat the indexes most of the time.  Maybe for a while, but it usually catches up with them.  But good luck with that.
It's responses like this that make conversations taboo. There are some of us who wish folks like @vand would explain more, but @FIREstache 's response kills the conversation. Ever heard of "agree to disagree"?
Plus, the OP asked for alternatives, not for someone to come and crap over the thread. If you don't have anything to contribute constructively to the conversation, not posting is an option.

I wasn't crapping or even disagreeing with anyone, just pointing out a fact about active investing.  I think most people would agree with me.  But, there are plenty of people that think they have the magic formula or special "know how" to beat the indexes.  It usually doesn't end well.  But best of luck.

bacchi

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2019, 07:45:48 PM »
But, there are plenty of people that think they have the magic formula or special "know how" to beat the indexes.  It usually doesn't end well.

Everyone's a market genius when the market is on a tear.

jinga nation

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2019, 07:52:32 AM »
Actually there's a whole (good) forum on RE investing. Check it out!

-W
noticed that you negatively contributed to the thread question here as well: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/i-know-we're-not-supposed-to-but-it's-fun-dammit-share-your-stock-picks!/

I noticed your MO is to shoot down any thread that you deem is anti-mustachian. You don't like the alternative ideas being exchanged.

EvenSteven

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2019, 08:08:17 AM »
Actually there's a whole (good) forum on RE investing. Check it out!

-W
noticed that you negatively contributed to the thread question here as well: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/i-know-we're-not-supposed-to-but-it's-fun-dammit-share-your-stock-picks!/

I noticed your MO is to shoot down any thread that you deem is anti-mustachian. You don't like the alternative ideas being exchanged.

Pointing out that there is an entire MMM sub forum about real estate is not shitting on real estate investing.

waltworks

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2019, 08:47:07 AM »
I noticed your MO is to shoot down any thread that you deem is anti-mustachian. You don't like the alternative ideas being exchanged.

My MO is to make sure people coming to this site for advice get good advice that will help them be financially independent.

Again, you're welcome to be as offended as you want when I call out bad ideas as... bad ideas.

-W

effigy98

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2019, 12:30:05 PM »
All my tax sheltered accounts are very conservative Golden butterfly or the more aggressive like S&P 500 depending on when I plan on withdrawing from them to avoid sequence of returns risk.

But in my overflow taxable account, I have some individual stocks that are disruptive that eat other industries over time. It was hard to get them in quantities I wanted even in focused ETFs. I would call these my longshot fun portfolio and I dollar cost average into them using M1 finance (partial shares) every paycheck.

AMZN
TSLA
BABA
NVTA
SSYS
ILMN
NTLA
NSTG

I know it's an etf, but I very much into VDC as consumer staples which are as bond like as possible but still have growth like stocks during a downturn and the dividend is nice. I backtested the category of holdings as far back as I could and these type of companies are very solid during every downturn in my lifetime. If bonds were yielding better I would probably use that instead, but bond yields can't even keep up with the dividend on VDC.

- I have a rental that brings in my bare bones living expenses as a diversifier.
- I also know how to code, which is probably my strongest diversify in the history of mankind.

I also buy GLD, then sell covered calls on them. This has caused a dividend effect on my gold holdings. I only do this in my tax sheltered accounts. The shorter duration the better as they VERY rarely get called and the money is decent when you get a large holding.

Mine crypto with extra solar energy. I covered my property with cheap solar panels. The dividend check alone from the state of WA is awesome. The crypto paid for the solar in 2 years... crazy. Not get rich quick unless you sold at peak, but very steady flow of side income to pay your food budget or something.

« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 12:36:46 PM by effigy98 »

BicycleB

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Re: Anyone using alternatives to index funds for FIRE?
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2019, 03:35:10 PM »
All my tax sheltered accounts are very conservative Golden butterfly or the more aggressive like S&P 500 depending on when I plan on withdrawing from them to avoid sequence of returns risk.

But in my overflow taxable account, I have some individual stocks that are disruptive that eat other industries over time. It was hard to get them in quantities I wanted even in focused ETFs. I would call these my longshot fun portfolio and I dollar cost average into them using M1 finance (partial shares) every paycheck.

AMZN
TSLA
BABA
NVTA
SSYS
ILMN
NTLA
NSTG

I know it's an etf, but I very much into VDC as consumer staples which are as bond like as possible but still have growth like stocks during a downturn and the dividend is nice. I backtested the category of holdings as far back as I could and these type of companies are very solid during every downturn in my lifetime. If bonds were yielding better I would probably use that instead, but bond yields can't even keep up with the dividend on VDC.

- I have a rental that brings in my bare bones living expenses as a diversifier.
- I also know how to code, which is probably my strongest diversify in the history of mankind.

I also buy GLD, then sell covered calls on them. This has caused a dividend effect on my gold holdings. I only do this in my tax sheltered accounts. The shorter duration the better as they VERY rarely get called and the money is decent when you get a large holding.

Mine crypto with extra solar energy. I covered my property with cheap solar panels. The dividend check alone from the state of WA is awesome. The crypto paid for the solar in 2 years... crazy. Not get rich quick unless you sold at peak, but very steady flow of side income to pay your food budget or something.

Now THAT's an interesting portfolio! 

Congrats on the solar win, particularly. Thanks for posting, @effigy98.