Author Topic: Advice for a 26 year old investor?  (Read 2141 times)

Matt_Apple

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Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« on: January 09, 2023, 11:49:05 AM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

PDXTabs

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2023, 11:57:01 AM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing.
Me too, I love that book.

My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.
Yes, never leave match money on the table. Also check out Investment Order. Depending on your tax rate it might make sense to max out your traditional 401k.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2023, 01:33:02 PM »
Sounds like you're making the right moves after a couple of years of gambling.

1) "My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."
If you'd like to become wealthy, never refer to debt as normal again. Your house debt is probably fine if you bought before 2022, but I'd like to know the interest rate on your car debt or the "normal expenses" debt which I presume is on credit cards.

2) That said, credit cards can be hacked to your advantage if you pay off your balance every month. I have a CC that pays 6% cash back on groceries and has a $95 annual fee. My household spends an embarrassing $10k/year on groceries, so the math works out and I gain about $500/year from this strategy. I have another card that pays 2% cash back and I use it for non-groceries, earning a few hundred per year that way.

3) There are no investments with as good a ROI as investing in your career. Certifications in particular are a cost-effective way to score raises and promotions. If you can keep your lifestyle inflation in check, you can plow these raises into savings and retire early.

4) VTI and VOO are good funds, with low expense ratios and great diversification. However, given the recession warning signals such as inverted yield curves, rising rates, and a high National Financial Conditions Index, there's a good chance they'll be cheaper later. You can offset some of this risk by dollar cost averaging or by selling put options on these funds until you get assigned on a downswing. Maybe you make a couple percent return before buying the shares at a lower price than you'd initially planned. SPY and QQQ might be more ideal ways to implement this strategy because their options markets are more liquid. Just don't make a lifestyle out of unlimited-downside/limited-upside positions! Especially don't do it during a recovery. Been there, done that.

5) $50k is good money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with what you'll have upon FIRE. Therefore, don't stress out if you lose 10% or 20%. Those paper losses are routine, and with $50k invested now is not the time to freak out and go to cash in response to some market zig zag. Think about what your routine correction losses will be when you have $2M invested, and how you'll have to be able to tolerate those kinds of fluctuations in order to stay independently wealthy. I.e. one day you'll have to lose $400k in a month on paper, shrug your shoulders, and not alter your strategy. Imagine yourself there! Read the following to obtain this perspective: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2022/01/how-often-should-you-expect-a-stock-market-correction/

6) Really it's a game of preventing lifestyle inflation. If you can't stand living in a smaller house than your peers, driving a cheaper car than your peers, having a more basic fashion sense than your peers, etc. then you'll never catch up to your own escalating spending. There's a reason why most 40 year olds have practically nothing to their name, and it has something to do with spending. You need to decide right now to be an outcast or iconoclast of sorts, or else you'll get pulled into the lifestyle most people live, which makes FIRE impossible.

7) Unless you really got a bad taste in your mouth from trading options, the temptation to gamble will return. Paper trading accounts and small play money accounts are one way people on this board scratch the itch. However you run the risk of developing a gambler's mindset instead of an accumulator's mindset.

Matt_Apple

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2023, 01:56:09 PM »
Sounds like you're making the right moves after a couple of years of gambling.

1) "My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."
If you'd like to become wealthy, never refer to debt as normal again. Your house debt is probably fine if you bought before 2022, but I'd like to know the interest rate on your car debt or the "normal expenses" debt which I presume is on credit cards.


2) That said, credit cards can be hacked to your advantage if you pay off your balance every month. I have a CC that pays 6% cash back on groceries and has a $95 annual fee. My household spends an embarrassing $10k/year on groceries, so the math works out and I gain about $500/year from this strategy. I have another card that pays 2% cash back and I use it for non-groceries, earning a few hundred per year that way.

3) There are no investments with as good a ROI as investing in your career. Certifications in particular are a cost-effective way to score raises and promotions. If you can keep your lifestyle inflation in check, you can plow these raises into savings and retire early.


4) VTI and VOO are good funds, with low expense ratios and great diversification. However, given the recession warning signals such as inverted yield curves, rising rates, and a high National Financial Conditions Index, there's a good chance they'll be cheaper later. You can offset some of this risk by dollar cost averaging or by selling put options on these funds until you get assigned on a downswing. Maybe you make a couple percent return before buying the shares at a lower price than you'd initially planned. SPY and QQQ might be more ideal ways to implement this strategy because their options markets are more liquid. Just don't make a lifestyle out of unlimited-downside/limited-upside positions! Especially don't do it during a recovery. Been there, done that.

5) $50k is good money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with what you'll have upon FIRE. Therefore, don't stress out if you lose 10% or 20%. Those paper losses are routine, and with $50k invested now is not the time to freak out and go to cash in response to some market zig zag. Think about what your routine correction losses will be when you have $2M invested, and how you'll have to be able to tolerate those kinds of fluctuations in order to stay independently wealthy. I.e. one day you'll have to lose $400k in a month on paper, shrug your shoulders, and not alter your strategy. Imagine yourself there! Read the following to obtain this perspective: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2022/01/how-often-should-you-expect-a-stock-market-correction/

6) Really it's a game of preventing lifestyle inflation. If you can't stand living in a smaller house than your peers, driving a cheaper car than your peers, having a more basic fashion sense than your peers, etc. then you'll never catch up to your own escalating spending. There's a reason why most 40 year olds have practically nothing to their name, and it has something to do with spending. You need to decide right now to be an outcast or iconoclast of sorts, or else you'll get pulled into the lifestyle most people live, which makes FIRE impossible.


7) Unless you really got a bad taste in your mouth from trading options, the temptation to gamble will return. Paper trading accounts and small play money accounts are one way people on this board scratch the itch. However you run the risk of developing a gambler's mindset instead of an accumulator's mindset.

1)I purchased the house a couple years ago. The interest rate is below 3%. The car is around 5%. I don't have any credit cards currently. By normal expenses I'm just referring to food, gas, anything the baby needs etc..

3)I have a 4 year degree in construction management. I generally get a good raise each year plus bonuses based on performance. I would say I'm on track to reach a 6 figure salary within the next 5-6 years.

6)I feel like overall I have a much cheaper lifestyle than those around me. It was way easier to save up when I was single, and had no responsibilities outside of myself. I could care less about traveling, fancy clothes, or nice restaurants. Since starting a family and owning a home it just seems like there's always some big expense that comes up monthly. My wife is the total opposite financially. She's paycheck to paycheck and helps out with some expenses when possible, but for the most part it's all on me, and has made saving a lot more difficult.

7)I got borderline addicted to trading options. I wouldn't mind playing with a really small account, however it was just way too much added stress and a big distraction from work.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 02:00:00 PM by Matt_Apple »

EliteZags

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2023, 04:14:18 PM »

2) That said, credit cards can be hacked to your advantage if you pay off your balance every month. I have a CC that pays 6% cash back on groceries and has a $95 annual fee. My household spends an embarrassing $10k/year on groceries, so the math works out and I gain about $500/year from this strategy. I have another card that pays 2% cash back and I use it for non-groceries, earning a few hundred per year that way.


assuming this is AMEX BlueCash Preferred should cap 6% at $6K annually, unless you found away around that limit?


I don't spend that much on just groceries but usually max it out each year buying gift cards to cover all my gas (Arco) and most online shopping (Amazon/Ebay)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 04:17:39 PM by EliteZags »

moof

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2023, 06:17:02 PM »
6)I feel like overall I have a much cheaper lifestyle than those around me. It was way easier to save up when I was single, and had no responsibilities outside of myself. I could care less about traveling, fancy clothes, or nice restaurants. Since starting a family and owning a home it just seems like there's always some big expense that comes up monthly. My wife is the total opposite financially. She's paycheck to paycheck and helps out with some expenses when possible, but for the most part it's all on me, and has made saving a lot more difficult.
To me this is a hair on fire emergency.  If you and your spouse are not on the same page with regards to household finances fix it ASAP.  Money frictions can become toxic to a relationship.  Either she will resent you as a cheapskate or you will resent here for being a spendthrift, or both of you will resent each other and you may find yourself facing divorce with associated financial calamity.
When I got married it became "our money".  All paychecks went to the joint account.  All debts were "our" debts, despite my wife being ashamed of the modest credit card debt she had coming into the marriage and wanting to pay it off herself.  We setup personal accounts for our personal allowances, which are no-judgement personal spending accounts we pay ourselves and we never need to justify spending from.  We've never fought over money in the last 16 years.  Many other couples solve this differently, but it sounds like you have a little work to do to get you and your wife on the same page.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2023, 05:38:29 AM »
3)I have a 4 year degree in construction management. I generally get a good raise each year plus bonuses based on performance. I would say I'm on track to reach a 6 figure salary within the next 5-6 years.
Options only trade during the day on NY time.  If you trade during working hours, that could hinder promotion or risk being fired.  If you only trade outside work hours, the stress could still distract you and worsen your mood at work.

7)I got borderline addicted to trading options. I wouldn't mind playing with a really small account, however it was just way too much added stress and a big distraction from work.
You should figure out how much trading options is worth.  Compare how investing in a passive index ETF like VTI performed with the same money.  Subtract that from the money you made.  Now divide by how many hours you put in.  How much is options trading paying you per hour?

iris lily

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2023, 11:31:22 AM »
Why are we even legitimizing discussion of option trading? Yoinks.

OP you have three nuggets of info here needed to grow rich:

1. Fiscally conservative spouse
2. Debt is The Enemy
3. Don’t leave free money ( employer match) on the table

And you know about a respected no load index fund.

Carry these out and you are off to the races.

Captain Cactus

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2023, 12:01:24 PM »
Sounds like you're making the right moves after a couple of years of gambling.

1) "My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."
If you'd like to become wealthy, never refer to debt as normal again. Your house debt is probably fine if you bought before 2022, but I'd like to know the interest rate on your car debt or the "normal expenses" debt which I presume is on credit cards.

2) That said, credit cards can be hacked to your advantage if you pay off your balance every month. I have a CC that pays 6% cash back on groceries and has a $95 annual fee. My household spends an embarrassing $10k/year on groceries, so the math works out and I gain about $500/year from this strategy. I have another card that pays 2% cash back and I use it for non-groceries, earning a few hundred per year that way.

3) There are no investments with as good a ROI as investing in your career. Certifications in particular are a cost-effective way to score raises and promotions. If you can keep your lifestyle inflation in check, you can plow these raises into savings and retire early.

4) VTI and VOO are good funds, with low expense ratios and great diversification. However, given the recession warning signals such as inverted yield curves, rising rates, and a high National Financial Conditions Index, there's a good chance they'll be cheaper later. You can offset some of this risk by dollar cost averaging or by selling put options on these funds until you get assigned on a downswing. Maybe you make a couple percent return before buying the shares at a lower price than you'd initially planned. SPY and QQQ might be more ideal ways to implement this strategy because their options markets are more liquid. Just don't make a lifestyle out of unlimited-downside/limited-upside positions! Especially don't do it during a recovery. Been there, done that.

5) $50k is good money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with what you'll have upon FIRE. Therefore, don't stress out if you lose 10% or 20%. Those paper losses are routine, and with $50k invested now is not the time to freak out and go to cash in response to some market zig zag. Think about what your routine correction losses will be when you have $2M invested, and how you'll have to be able to tolerate those kinds of fluctuations in order to stay independently wealthy. I.e. one day you'll have to lose $400k in a month on paper, shrug your shoulders, and not alter your strategy. Imagine yourself there! Read the following to obtain this perspective: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2022/01/how-often-should-you-expect-a-stock-market-correction/

6) Really it's a game of preventing lifestyle inflation. If you can't stand living in a smaller house than your peers, driving a cheaper car than your peers, having a more basic fashion sense than your peers, etc. then you'll never catch up to your own escalating spending. There's a reason why most 40 year olds have practically nothing to their name, and it has something to do with spending. You need to decide right now to be an outcast or iconoclast of sorts, or else you'll get pulled into the lifestyle most people live, which makes FIRE impossible.

7) Unless you really got a bad taste in your mouth from trading options, the temptation to gamble will return. Paper trading accounts and small play money accounts are one way people on this board scratch the itch. However you run the risk of developing a gambler's mindset instead of an accumulator's mindset.

Would you be open to sharing what credit card pays 6% cash back on groceries?  Any exclusions?

Fru-Gal

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2023, 12:48:21 PM »
Just gonna throw in an opposing point of you that your spouse living paycheck to paycheck is not necessarily a “hair on fire emergency” — many of us live with spouses/partners who do that. Granted, there are dangerous signs you should take seriously like gambling, extreme shopping/hoarding, and elaborate lying about money/debt.

But there’s a great thread here on how to convert your SO to mustachianism. In my case even though my husband has always lived paycheck to paycheck, he is on board with our major frugal decisions like living in our forever home, having 1 car and mostly biking. He also has excellent credit so for the most part I leave him be since money can be a touchy subject for him. He also helps me by pushing me to reward myself with good gear or other stuff since I tend to be more frugal especially when it comes to buying my own stuff.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2023, 12:55:09 PM »
Would you be open to sharing what credit card pays 6% cash back on groceries?  Any exclusions?
The American Express Blue Cash Preferred card:
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/credit-cards/credit-intel/amex-cash-back-reward-dollars/

*$250 credit if you spend $3k in 3 months.
*6% cash back at supermarkets on up to $6k of spending, or streaming services.
*3% cash back on gas stations or transit
*1% cash back on everything else
*$95/year fee

EliteZags

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2023, 01:33:19 PM »
Would you be open to sharing what credit card pays 6% cash back on groceries?  Any exclusions?
The American Express Blue Cash Preferred card:
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/credit-cards/credit-intel/amex-cash-back-reward-dollars/

*$250 credit if you spend $3k in 3 months.
*6% cash back at supermarkets on up to $6k of spending, or streaming services.
*3% cash back on gas stations or transit
*1% cash back on everything else
*$95/year fee

how do you get $500/yr back with the 6K cap

ChpBstrd

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2023, 01:34:41 PM »
Would you be open to sharing what credit card pays 6% cash back on groceries?  Any exclusions?
The American Express Blue Cash Preferred card:
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/credit-cards/credit-intel/amex-cash-back-reward-dollars/

*$250 credit if you spend $3k in 3 months.
*6% cash back at supermarkets on up to $6k of spending, or streaming services.
*3% cash back on gas stations or transit
*1% cash back on everything else
*$95/year fee

how do you get $500/yr back with the 6K cap
Math error. I forgot about the cap.

SeattleCPA

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2023, 05:12:25 PM »
Sounds like you're making the right moves after a couple of years of gambling.

1) "My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."
If you'd like to become wealthy, never refer to debt as normal again. Your house debt is probably fine if you bought before 2022, but I'd like to know the interest rate on your car debt or the "normal expenses" debt which I presume is on credit cards.


2) That said, credit cards can be hacked to your advantage if you pay off your balance every month. I have a CC that pays 6% cash back on groceries and has a $95 annual fee. My household spends an embarrassing $10k/year on groceries, so the math works out and I gain about $500/year from this strategy. I have another card that pays 2% cash back and I use it for non-groceries, earning a few hundred per year that way.

3) There are no investments with as good a ROI as investing in your career. Certifications in particular are a cost-effective way to score raises and promotions. If you can keep your lifestyle inflation in check, you can plow these raises into savings and retire early.


4) VTI and VOO are good funds, with low expense ratios and great diversification. However, given the recession warning signals such as inverted yield curves, rising rates, and a high National Financial Conditions Index, there's a good chance they'll be cheaper later. You can offset some of this risk by dollar cost averaging or by selling put options on these funds until you get assigned on a downswing. Maybe you make a couple percent return before buying the shares at a lower price than you'd initially planned. SPY and QQQ might be more ideal ways to implement this strategy because their options markets are more liquid. Just don't make a lifestyle out of unlimited-downside/limited-upside positions! Especially don't do it during a recovery. Been there, done that.

5) $50k is good money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared with what you'll have upon FIRE. Therefore, don't stress out if you lose 10% or 20%. Those paper losses are routine, and with $50k invested now is not the time to freak out and go to cash in response to some market zig zag. Think about what your routine correction losses will be when you have $2M invested, and how you'll have to be able to tolerate those kinds of fluctuations in order to stay independently wealthy. I.e. one day you'll have to lose $400k in a month on paper, shrug your shoulders, and not alter your strategy. Imagine yourself there! Read the following to obtain this perspective: https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2022/01/how-often-should-you-expect-a-stock-market-correction/

6) Really it's a game of preventing lifestyle inflation. If you can't stand living in a smaller house than your peers, driving a cheaper car than your peers, having a more basic fashion sense than your peers, etc. then you'll never catch up to your own escalating spending. There's a reason why most 40 year olds have practically nothing to their name, and it has something to do with spending. You need to decide right now to be an outcast or iconoclast of sorts, or else you'll get pulled into the lifestyle most people live, which makes FIRE impossible.


7) Unless you really got a bad taste in your mouth from trading options, the temptation to gamble will return. Paper trading accounts and small play money accounts are one way people on this board scratch the itch. However you run the risk of developing a gambler's mindset instead of an accumulator's mindset.

1)I purchased the house a couple years ago. The interest rate is below 3%. The car is around 5%. I don't have any credit cards currently. By normal expenses I'm just referring to food, gas, anything the baby needs etc..

3)I have a 4 year degree in construction management. I generally get a good raise each year plus bonuses based on performance. I would say I'm on track to reach a 6 figure salary within the next 5-6 years.

6)I feel like overall I have a much cheaper lifestyle than those around me. It was way easier to save up when I was single, and had no responsibilities outside of myself. I could care less about traveling, fancy clothes, or nice restaurants. Since starting a family and owning a home it just seems like there's always some big expense that comes up monthly. My wife is the total opposite financially. She's paycheck to paycheck and helps out with some expenses when possible, but for the most part it's all on me, and has made saving a lot more difficult.

7)I got borderline addicted to trading options. I wouldn't mind playing with a really small account, however it was just way too much added stress and a big distraction from work.

I kinda feel like sometimes @ChpBstrd and I disagree on stuff. (Hopefully always in a friendly, "the scissor blades sharpen each other" way. But I want to say I totally agree with everything he says above.

I also want to echo and amplify the part of his response I boldfaced... and then your response to that part of his response.

As a guy who sees lots of high income tax returns, you will get a great return probably on investing in your human capital and continuing to do so. You've already done that with great outcome, sounds like. And I think you keep going.

BTW owning your own or a piece of a construction firm someday in the future is one of those "ways" to really hit the jackpot. (Source for this statement: https://www.nber.org/papers/w25442 )
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 05:14:02 PM by SeattleCPA »

BicycleB

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2023, 05:53:18 PM »
Great advice on this thread. @Matt_Apple, Simple Path to Wealth sounds like a great start. Implement it! :)

Sounds like having you and your wife on the same page is the tricky part. Ideally your wife and your money will last the rest of your life. So lay your foundations well.

Suggestions/ideas:
1. Seek to treat her gently and then move forward wisely.
2. Explore issues patiently with her so that you can understand better. Don't try to argue her into your new views, reasonable though they are.
3. After understanding, maybe focus on
    a. actions that make her feel her needs are a key focus
    b. the subset of "wise" moves that she herself realizes are wise (but they are also in line with Simple Path to Wealth)
    c. actions that she respects but you're the one who does them
    d. actions that don't feel to her like they affect her much but according to Simple Path to Wealth do have impact
    e. enthusiasm about her efforts in this new direction, whatever they may be

Be patient. If you're kind and do your part, most likely your wife will move to follow over time. If not, you've learned what's possible and can decide then. Best wishes.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 05:56:54 PM by BicycleB »

Freedomin5

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2023, 05:57:05 PM »
+1 on reading and following the Investment Order thread. It's been linked above, but just in case: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/investment-order/

Also read the "How to Convert your SO to MMM in 50 Awesome Steps". There's no need to re-invent the wheel. There's lots of good advice in that thread. Here's the link: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

In addition, as others may have already mentioned, a car loan @5% interest is not a "normal expense". Many people own cars that they purchased with cash.  Your assumption regarding the "normal expenses" of having a family should also be questioned. For some, those normal expenses can total several thousand dollars a month, for others, a few hundred dollars a month. Take a deeper dive into those expenses and see if there are creative ways you can maintain that lifestyle while reducing those expenses.

If you post a full case study, there are many people on this forum who would be willing and happy to help you tighten up your financial ship.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2023, 06:02:57 PM by Freedomin5 »

Paper Chaser

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2023, 07:33:24 AM »
My advice would be to put as much into tax advantaged accounts as you can, every year. That gets those little green soldiers working for you automatically, while reducing your taxable income and it keeps you or your spouse from spending money that you may not need to spend.

NWOutlier

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2023, 10:01:19 AM »
My advice would be to put as much into tax advantaged accounts as you can, every year. That gets those little green soldiers working for you automatically, while reducing your taxable income and it keeps you or your spouse from spending money that you may not need to spend.

now that I'm 54.. I don't agree.. I wish I would have done more tax free investments.  paying taxes when younger is minimal.... but when you are 40-50 maybe having some tax deferred is better.  I have "too much" in my tax deferred accounts and need to spend it down before the RMD's that could hurt me later in life.

I have no advice - just saying what I'm experiencing... my tax deferred is 4 fold what my tax free is; when we are 70 - taxes are confusing... so simplify... specially if you're young... ROTH 401k and ROTH IRA and Taxable Account seems to be what I "should" have done.

Steve (NWOutlier)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2023, 02:44:03 PM »
It is tempting early in one's career to minimize taxes via tax-deferred accounts. The danger, as I found out, is that you can later find yourself with plenty of assets to retire, but those assets are inaccessible without paying penalties.  Ideally, when you hit "the number," you'll have 5 years of expenses (20% of all invested assets) in accessible accounts (taxable accounts and Roth contributions).

For many years, I was so focused on optimizing my taxes that I neglected those "accessible" assets.and now I'm having to start filling those taxed-now buckets at a time when I'm in a higher tax bracket.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2023, 05:13:53 PM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

"My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."

This website and followers here reject 90% of "normal spending" and celebrate the opposite of normal.

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.

VanillaGorilla

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2023, 05:38:33 PM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

"My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."

This website and followers here reject 90% of "normal spending" and celebrate the opposite of normal.

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.
Unless it's a brand new tesla, with maxed out options. ;)

OP: I love The Simple Path to Wealth. The longer I invest the more I appreciate it.

I strongly support JL Collins' investment advice and vehemently disagree with his real estate advice (owning a home has proven very valuable to me). Save 50% of your income and put it in the market and you'll do fine. Good luck!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 09:37:18 PM by VanillaGorilla »

NWOutlier

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2023, 10:36:49 AM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

Long term works; big time.  I started LATE LATE LATE.. 45 is when I got serious.  2021 provided 500k in returns that year, then 2022 took it back.. but - because I started before 2021... almost none of my transactions have lost money, only the ones I made Jan 2021 early (I fully fund 2 ROTH IRA's in Jan, took a bath on that, but it's only 14k)....

it's SICK what long term will do.. if you like trading still - you can do some type of split... long term 90% allocation (ROTH IRA & Brokerage for some liquidity) - 10% to satisfy the short term gains...

this is just for me and my family, based on my experience ... you will need to find something that works for you, but do not avoid long term gains... they are SICK!!!! :^D

Steve (NWOutlier)

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2023, 10:58:52 AM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

"My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."

This website and followers here reject 90% of "normal spending" and celebrate the opposite of normal.

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.
Unless it's a brand new tesla, with maxed out options. ;)

OP: I love The Simple Path to Wealth. The longer I invest the more I appreciate it.

I strongly support JL Collins' investment advice and vehemently disagree with his real estate advice (owning a home has proven very valuable to me). Save 50% of your income and put it in the market and you'll do fine. Good luck!
Y'all know he bought a house in 2017, right? After the book came out. I think he calls it "Kibanda". IIRC, he also bought a brand-new car. Doesn't make me love him any less. 

Log

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2023, 11:23:57 AM »
I just finished the book "The Simple Path to Wealth". It really changed my mindset on investing. I've traded options for the past 2 years which was overall very stressful. I have about 50k saved up in my checking account. I've never really been one to think long term. I've always wanted to just make "quick" money which seems to be the downfall of most traders. My plan is to invest roughly 10k into VTI/VOO initially. After that I'll invest whatever I can afford monthly in order to build my position. I have a job that pays around 80k per year. My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child. My employer offers a 401k with company match up to 5% as well. I'm planning to start that this month. If you all have any advice or tweaks you would make to this plan I'd love to hear it. I know it's pretty basic, but that seemed to be that main point of the book. I've always been afraid to start heavily investing and just hoard money in my checking account, rather than having it work for me.

"My major debts are just my house, car, and the normal expenses with having a wife/child."

This website and followers here reject 90% of "normal spending" and celebrate the opposite of normal.

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.
Unless it's a brand new tesla, with maxed out options. ;)

OP: I love The Simple Path to Wealth. The longer I invest the more I appreciate it.

I strongly support JL Collins' investment advice and vehemently disagree with his real estate advice (owning a home has proven very valuable to me). Save 50% of your income and put it in the market and you'll do fine. Good luck!
Y'all know he bought a house in 2017, right? After the book came out. I think he calls it "Kibanda". IIRC, he also bought a brand-new car. Doesn't make me love him any less.

Also, the only reason his advice about homes hasn't proven the most financially prudent is because of the entrenched political coalition of NIMBYism restricting the supply of homes in municipalities all over the country. These policies enrich homeowners at the expense of renters. With the housing crisis at a boiling point lately, I'm not sure I would count on that status quo surviving the coming decades. The California state legislature seems to just be starting to get serious about housing abundance, and I expect other blue states/cities to follow.

The majority of voters are still home-owners, but lots of more recent entrants to the market are more empathetic to the struggles of renters, and environmentalism is a strong incentive for many liberal home-owners to vote against their personal interests, since dense apartment/condo construction around transit is one of the best policy moves we can make to reduce carbon emissions.

Real estate may have been the gravy train for the past few decades, but I think the political and market incentives that maintain that "line go up" for real estate are more fragile than those that make sure that "line go up" for the stock market. I think the Collins approach to home ownership is wiser now than it's every been.

yachi

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2023, 10:30:37 PM »
Would you be open to sharing what credit card pays 6% cash back on groceries?  Any exclusions?
The American Express Blue Cash Preferred card:
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/credit-cards/credit-intel/amex-cash-back-reward-dollars/

*$250 credit if you spend $3k in 3 months.
*6% cash back at supermarkets on up to $6k of spending, or streaming services.
*3% cash back on gas stations or transit
*1% cash back on everything else
*$95/year fee

how do you get $500/yr back with the 6K cap
Math error. I forgot about the cap.

This is the card we have too.  I think we just finished out the first year using it.  Previously we had the 3% off groceries free version.  I've off and on considered getting a second such card for my spouse to use.  I don't know that we have fill out enough of the spend required to make up for the yearly fee.  We do most of our gas purchases at a grocery store using points that earn us gas discounts.  So all that's left is Amazon and a scattered list of stores we frequent for clothes and shoes.

RWD

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2023, 08:45:32 AM »
Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.
Apparently the average is now up to $48k+. Absolutely baffling to me.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-sets-record/

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2023, 10:22:08 AM »
Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.
Apparently the average is now up to $48k+. Absolutely baffling to me.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-sets-record/
$48k for a new car is nuts.  I mean, I can understand how we get to those numbers.  Lots of people buying expensive pickups they don't need and overpriced SUVs that have little actual utility or sportiness.  But the fact that our society has mindlessly and enthusiastically embraced the idea of spending such crazy amounts of money on cars is mindboggling to me.

About a year ago DW and I looked at brand new minivans, just for fun.  A new Honda Odyssey started at $42k!

Must_ache

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2023, 11:03:29 AM »

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.

Eh, I wouldn't want to drive a 16-yr Pontiac, not knowing if I were going to make it to my next destination.  For my 50th birthday I shelled out for a nice new Blue Honda Civic ($26K) which I will hold for at least ten years.  I think people go overboard here with car frugality.  I enjoy riding in my car - heated seats, Android Auto - worth paying a bit more for.

Must_ache

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2023, 11:06:52 AM »

now that I'm 54.. I don't agree.. I wish I would have done more tax free investments.  paying taxes when younger is minimal.... but when you are 40-50 maybe having some tax deferred is better.  I have "too much" in my tax deferred accounts and need to spend it down before the RMD's that could hurt me later in life.

I have no advice - just saying what I'm experiencing... my tax deferred is 4 fold what my tax free is; when we are 70 - taxes are confusing... so simplify... specially if you're young... ROTH 401k and ROTH IRA and Taxable Account seems to be what I "should" have done.


Agree here, if you are in the 12% tax bracket I think Roth should be automatic.  22% or higher, hard to say, maybe do a mixture.  Depends on the tax bracket you expect to be in during retirement, which could certainly change.

RWD

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2023, 11:29:58 AM »

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.

Eh, I wouldn't want to drive a 16-yr Pontiac, not knowing if I were going to make it to my next destination.  For my 50th birthday I shelled out for a nice new Blue Honda Civic ($26K) which I will hold for at least ten years.  I think people go overboard here with car frugality.  I enjoy riding in my car - heated seats, Android Auto - worth paying a bit more for.

There are plenty of worse cars for reliability than a Pontiac Vibe (which is actually a rebranded Toyota Matrix).
https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Pontiac_Vibe.html

Must_ache

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2023, 02:17:44 PM »
Oh ok then!

clarkfan1979

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Re: Advice for a 26 year old investor?
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2023, 08:35:37 PM »

I drive a 2007 Pontiac Vibe that I purchased in January 2020 for $2750. My insurance is $40/month and I get 32 mpg. Please cue the applause from the audience... clap, clap,clap,clap,clap..... Oh, thank you. I couldn't have done it without MMM. Changed my life in 2014.

Normal is a new car at $40,000 with a 7 year loan and insurance at $200/month. We don't accept "normal" spending here.

Eh, I wouldn't want to drive a 16-yr Pontiac, not knowing if I were going to make it to my next destination.  For my 50th birthday I shelled out for a nice new Blue Honda Civic ($26K) which I will hold for at least ten years.  I think people go overboard here with car frugality.  I enjoy riding in my car - heated seats, Android Auto - worth paying a bit more for.

There are plenty of worse cars for reliability than a Pontiac Vibe (which is actually a rebranded Toyota Matrix).
https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Pontiac_Vibe.html

I'm not a car guy. However, I was very strategic in knowing that the Pontiac Vibe is the same car as the Toyota Matrix. However, I had no idea the reliability scored that high on the website. I've had the car for 3 years with no problems. Thanks for sharing the website.

I have no idea what trends will exist for overall real estate in the United States. However, I will still be doing deals in my local markets and most likely beat the S & P 500. However, real estate does require work, so it's not an apples to apples comparison.