Reactions of "friends" to early retirement plans?

[GetItRight]

Recently a friend at work as complaining about his new truck payments and how he can't wait for that to be paid off, how he won't be able to retire for at least another 10 years or more (he's late 50s), etc... This is one of the guys I talk to regularly at work and over the years have occasionally hung out or help each other with things after work. I didn't say anything about the truck, as I already pointed out long ago how silly it was to borrow money for a brand new truck (he had a perfectly good truck, and car). I did mention that I'd like to try to retire in maybe 20 years around age 50, as it's been on my mind a lot lately. He looked at me like I was crazy, as if I told him pigs can fly and leprechauns live in the basement laying easter eggs, and asked how the heck I was gonna do that. Told him I'm used to paying a couple grand a month in student loans and being poor so maybe in a couple years when I'm debt free I'll just put most of that into savings for retirement every month.

Since I consider him a friend he knows I have huge student loan debt and make huge payments on it so that was no surprise to him, he has been sympathetic to my venting previously, as I have to his venting. The mention of redirecting debt payments to savings when the debt is gone though, wow that brought out a bunch of anger and defensiveness. First was "I'm not poor, I have a good life and I've never lived poor or had it bad, in fact we live good, very good!" then comments about how they must pay me real well and so forth, real resentful as if I suddenly became part of some exclusive club. He knows I'm not any more happy at work than him or others, he knows I'm paid way under market rate for what I do but afraid to take a chance on another job because of my huge debt. We're probably similar pay, but I suspect he makes a little more than me. I was just shocked at how quickly the anger and resentment came out.

I've been stupid with money in the past, mainly going to school, and I still have some luxuries that I probably shouldn't but eliminating them doesn't significantly alter my time to debt free but I don't borrow money for any of those luxuries. I'm new to the FIRE concept as before it has just been dig out of debt. Now that I optimized a few things there is some light at the end of the tunnel and RE sounds good as a long term goal. I don't want to be an angry bitter 60 year old hating work every day and complaining about how I'll never be able to retire. If I still work then I want it to be my choice  of what/when/where and not dictated by consumer debt. I didn't say all that to him, just that I'd like to retire somewhere before a "normal" retirement age, but I think I'll be a little more careful with who I share my thoughts or goals with as some "friends" are not so friendly when you want to better yourself. I was surprised one of the few people I'm more comfortable and open with at work lashed out over something that doesn't affect him at all.

Anyone else have similar experiences? Or even any positive reactions?

[Jon_Snow]

Extremely perplexed when I let my ER plans slip a few years ago.

Now that I am actually ER'ed, they are even more baffled, mixed with a tinge of envy and hostility. To be expected I suppose.

[MrsPete]

Eh, typical defensiveness to hearing that someone else has a good idea, and you can't participate in it. 

[Josiecat]

Wow, sucks to be him.

Awesome to be you.

[pachnik]

Interesting anecdote by the OP.   

I am in late middle age and accidentally came across this website about a year and a half ago.  I could easily be the 'older colleague' of someone on this site.  Maybe I lead a sheltered life but I don't recall coming across the idea of really early retirement before stumbling across this website.  The only person I know who retired early retired at 57 because she inherited big.  I've had friends have to leave the work force to due poor health but I wouldn't call that early retirement.

I am not sure how I would react to someone decades younger than me laying out this interesting plan of early retirement knowing I had missed the boat.  Knowing myself, I would probably just be silent and feel badly about myself that I hadn't had the sense to save more and spend less earlier in life.  Or maybe I simply wouldn't believe it was possible because I hadn't seen it happen to someone in my life. 

But since I've been enlightened by being a member of this forum, I would probably ask them how many years until FI?  :)   I don't really talk about my finances at any job I am at and retiring in late middle age isn't going to raise any eyebrows.

[Beric01]

As a 24-year old, when I've opened up to people about my plan to retire in my early 30's (particularly to those older than me) they just don't take me seriously, seemingly laughing it off to the optimism of youth.

When I tell people that I'm biking everywhere, that I live in a studio apartment, making my own food, etc. it should be obvious how I can expect to achieve this goal. But people say that my expenses will definitely increase when I get older (why should they, if I'm happy as I am?).

[Emilyngh]

I told one friend that I want to be FI and able to retire before I'm 50 (more like young 40s, but didn't want to push it).

She told me that I was privileged to be in that position and that for most people (like herself) it's just not ever going to be a possibility.   So, I stopped there.   I wish I could explain to her exactly how it'd be possible for her, but I don't know how I could without sounding judgmental about her choices.

[jpo]

...I'm paid way under market rate for what I do but afraid to take a chance on another job because of my huge debt...

[Gin1984]

As a 24-year old, when I've opened up to people about my plan to retire in my early 30's (particularly to those older than me) they just don't take me seriously, seemingly laughing it off to the optimism of youth.

When I tell people that I'm biking everywhere, that I live in a studio apartment, making my own food, etc. it should be obvious how I can expect to achieve this goal. But people say that my expenses will definitely increase when I get older (why should they, if I'm happy as I am?).

We'll, inflation should increase your expense, but then again, it should increase your income.  But, if you chose to have a child, that could also increase expenses.  Our daughter costs about $1000/month in daycare alone.

[Beric01]

As a 24-year old, when I've opened up to people about my plan to retire in my early 30's (particularly to those older than me) they just don't take me seriously, seemingly laughing it off to the optimism of youth.

When I tell people that I'm biking everywhere, that I live in a studio apartment, making my own food, etc. it should be obvious how I can expect to achieve this goal. But people say that my expenses will definitely increase when I get older (why should they, if I'm happy as I am?).

We'll, inflation should increase your expense, but then again, it should increase your income.  But, if you chose to have a child, that could also increase expenses.  Our daughter costs about $1000/month in daycare alone.

Or you can just be like MMM and FIRE before you have kids. I wouldn't mind having kids someday, but definitely not before FIRE. If you take out daycare costs, and make your kids pay for their own education, they really aren't that expensive (I should know - I'm the oldest of 6).

[Spartana]

I retired at 42. At the time I wasn't planning to be off work forever, just taking a 5 year break from work to do other stuff. After a year off work I knew I could do it forever with a few minor financial tweaks. So, in my enthusiasm for my new discovery of being FIRE at early 40-ish, I began to spout all sorts of MMM ideas (this was pre-MMM but great minds and all that :-)!) to friends. but only had negative comments about how it's all impossible, I'll be bored, I'll be poor, I must be rich, I must have a sugar daddy, yadda yadda... So I quit talking about it to everyone and just went about living my nice FIRE life. Now it's more than 10 years later (and I haven't worked a day since and never been bored or poor!) and friends have kind of started asking me questions about how I did it. Unfortunately they don't like the answers (live very frugally, do lots of fun free stuff, don't buy stuff...) and want to hear about how they can live a life of luxury yet still retire early rather then serious examples. So my experience is that most people really aren't interested in FIRE unless it means they can still have enough money to live high life and really don't want to hear about a how  "regular " person does it so I keep my mouth shut pretty much.

[DocCyane]

Everyone learns the "keep it quiet" lesson the hard way. That's why this community is such a relief.

[Jessa]

I am not sure how I would react to someone decades younger than me laying out this interesting plan of early retirement knowing I had missed the boat.  Knowing myself, I would probably just be silent and feel badly about myself that I hadn't had the sense to save more and spend less earlier in life.  Or maybe I simply wouldn't believe it was possible because I hadn't seen it happen to someone in my life. 

I'm only 34, but this is kind of how I feel. I did not make a lot of money for most of my 20's, but I could've made much better choices and been in a better situation right now if I had started practicing what I'm doing now 10 years ago. It's frustrating.

[aschmidt2930]

I'm generally pretty quiet about my finances (I always feel it comes off arrogant, and trust me it's not because they're spectacular) but the limited times I've mentioned my goal to others it's met with disbelief.  Nothing hostile, but nobody really thinks it's possible.  That's fine, math doesn't lie. 

[ender]

It's a lot easier to shoot someone else's dreams down than it is to create and achieve your own.

[Rustyfa]

I have only mentioned retiring early to a couple younger co workers that are good guys.  I'm 35 and they are 23 and 25.  It has taken a couple years but I think I have convinced them it is possible and start now.

I have also told 3 of my friends.  One is now a reader here.  He lives Ramsey ish but is headed further.  The other two make great money but think im out of my bloody mind.  I am just quirky to them there.  Won't listen.  I live in rural Midwest and one of these guys makes close to $140k and he doesn't think it is possible.  Just crazy.  Every toy but is owned by them.

[vern]

envy and hostility

This.

[amberfocus]

I haven't told any friends about my dreams of FIRE yet (I didn't discover the concept until earlier this year when I heard MMM's interview on NPR's Marketplace Money), but I have told a few financial advisors (the ones that my employer trucks in for free seminars and consults).

All I've gotten are sputters of disbelief -- at how much I've already saved at my age, mixed with pity -- for how I'm sadly depriving myself. I was a bit surprised by this reaction, because I figured financial advisors of all people would be used to dealing with wealthy folks, but apparently Mustachians are still a somewhat rare breed.

I would love to talk to my friends/coworkers about it more, particularly because a few of them could really be helped by a good ol' fashioned face punch, but I don't want to breed jealousy, resentment, or come across as rubbing it in. I'm also worried about losing opportunities for professional advancement if my employer ever finds out that every raise/promotion they give me just speeds up the time it takes for me to dash. :P

Hilariously, I have talked to the SO about it, and even he's extremely dubious, but from the opposite direction. He's also very frugal, but he's way more risk averse. He thinks that FIRE is insane, because he doesn't feel like he will ever have enough money to feel "safe" enough to pull the plug on work. I also strongly suspect that he will flip out on me if I do wind up leaving my main career without lining up some sort of alternate side gig first.

I haven't told my family either. I'm mostly worried that they'll judge me for being lazy and/or wasting/throwing away my education, talents, and opportunities, which they've worked so hard to provide and cultivate. My father has always cautioned me against being prideful, and I feel like he would interpret me walking away from my career as being the ultimate abrogation of personal responsibility. (I would also feel fairly guilty if I actually retired before my parents, because I would absolutely want to give them a secure retirement before I take my own, but they refuse to let me support them.)

[Squirrel away]

I think it is sour grapes mostly with people when they respond in a negative way. People generally are happier when they are like everyone else and early retirement is usually something people don't even consider. I have seen very scathing comments about MMM on other forums usually by older people who think that younger people don't really know how finances/the stock market/the real world operates. I think it's a case of realising that they could have had a better life if they had made different choices.

I told one friend that I want to be FI and able to retire before I'm 50 (more like young 40s, but didn't want to push it).

She told me that I was privileged to be in that position and that for most people (like herself) it's just not ever going to be a possibility.   So, I stopped there.   I wish I could explain to her exactly how it'd be possible for her, but I don't know how I could without sounding judgmental about her choices.

Huh? How does that mean you are privileged, that's ridiculous.

[stlbrah]

i live in a working class neighborhood, so complaining about how expensive things are is one of the most common ways to socialize. I would never let anyone know my plans around here

[libertarian4321]

Prior to ER, I told essentially no one outside my immediate family that I planned to ER.   

The one exception was in an "annual performance review" for a corporate job I hated.  I was probably 40ish at the time.  I got the standard "where do you see yourself professionally in 5-years" question.  I was in a foul mood (because the damned "review" had already dragged on for 2 hours), so I figured, what the Hell, rather than making up some bull crap about how I intended to synergize my paradigms to help me achieve the company core values, and eventually reach corporate nirvana, I'll just keep it short, sweet, and honest.  I answered "I see myself retired."

Not a smart move.  My boss frowned and looked at me like I was a serial killer.  Then told me to get serious and stop wasting his time (as if the whole "review" process wasn't a complete waste of time).  My bad attitude during the review was surely a contributing factor to my getting the John Blutarsky raise that year- ZERO POINT ZERO %.  Kinda sucked at the time, but my wife and I laugh about it now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKS0GVvoE9I

So needless to say, the next year I shoveled him a load of corporate bull crap (right out of the handbook!) and got a normal raise.

It just doesn't pay to be honest about ER with some people until you are ready to pull the trigger and actually retire.

[frugalecon]

Congrats on the stick-to-it-ness to grind away on the debt. It is interesting that the colleague emphasized that he lived a good life and wasn't poor. I think a lot of negativity relates to unwillingness to accept that people have different views of what constitutes living a good life, and living richly. The MMM view is shared by a very small minority. And the majority often seems defensive about its choices.

[YoungMoney]

It's a lot easier to shoot someone else's dreams down than it is to create and achieve your own.

+1

[pichirino]

Most friends or colleagues of mine consider a high savings rate even more impossible then FIRE.
One set the limit near 75% savingsrate but consider a savings rate of 90% downright Crazy and Impossible.

In my opinion it depends on circumstance and income
but FIRE somehow is easier for people to chew down on,in my case they're either old near retiring anyway or young like me
so that might have to do with it that they might think it's possible within a reasonable time for them too.
That said I don't tell anyone at what age i'm really going to FIRE,it'll be understood by my example when im already there.

[hybrid]

As a 24-year old, when I've opened up to people about my plan to (......) they just don't take me seriously, seemingly laughing it off to the optimism of youth.

My edits above in bold. I've been around to see most of the grand plans of youth fail. That does not mean your plan will fail, it simply means folks are siding with what experience has shown them.

Maybe this will help. The reality is that most people would not be able to pull off what you are trying to pull off for a number of reasons, some within their control and some not. So rather than say you have a plan to retire, a plan that could get derailed in so many different ways, perhaps you should say you have a goal to retire by XXXX and these are the steps you are taking to get there. And if you are feeling really humble about it you could even add the caveat that if it does not work out the way you hoped, your bank account should be pretty flush all the same. On that heavenly day you do pull the trigger all the glory will be yours.

The missus and I have this exact same thing going on. We have a plan for her to retire in two years. It is not that far off and we have cleared most of the hurdles necessary to get there. And with all that in place, there are still a number of things that could trip us up along the way, so we assume nothing until we get there. As for me, I have a goal to retire by age 60. May be earlier, may be later, but twelve years is so far away it is silly for me to plan any hard dates into it. The best thing we can do is hold the course and do all the things we can to make that goal a reality. In the meantime when I talk about this with friends or peers I tell them about my goals, not my plans. I'm twice your age and I am not immune to the eyerolls either. With reason.

[Ybserp]

It is isolating to achieve a thing few others even attempt. I wish it were less so.

[Public Hermit]

I generally keep my mouth shut about things like that. The only person I've told about my ER plans is my mother.

I have told acquaintances that I am saving for retirement, but I was vague enough about it to leave out the "early" part. I work in accounting, so people generally expect me to be better with finances than the "average" person. A friend of mine even asked me for retirement investment advice out of the blue. I was elated!

[Gone Fishing]

Told a long time friend last weekend that I was getting close to pulling the trigger.  He said it didn't surprise him since I have been talking about it forever.  He didn't say much else.  His finances are okay but not great. I think it made him feel bad.

[Spartana]

I will say that sometimes your friendships go away after you ER. I think it may be partially the jealousy issue if they are stuck in a job they hate, as well as the lack of understanding of why you'd ER or how you ER'd, but mostly it's just that everyone you know is working all day long and so you may find yourself less involved with them. This was my situation when I first ER'd at 42. No one I knew was retired and so I ended up developing new friendships with other off-work people or those who worked nights, weekends, seasonal, at home, were SAHP, students, etc... and the old relationships sort of fell to the wayside.

[Beric01]

As a 24-year old, when I've opened up to people about my plan to (......) they just don't take me seriously, seemingly laughing it off to the optimism of youth.

My edits above in bold. I've been around to see most of the grand plans of youth fail. That does not mean your plan will fail, it simply means folks are siding with what experience has shown them.

Maybe this will help. The reality is that most people would not be able to pull off what you are trying to pull off for a number of reasons, some within their control and some not. So rather than say you have a plan to retire, a plan that could get derailed in so many different ways, perhaps you should say you have a goal to retire by XXXX and these are the steps you are taking to get there. And if you are feeling really humble about it you could even add the caveat that if it does not work out the way you hoped, your bank account should be pretty flush all the same. On that heavenly day you do pull the trigger all the glory will be yours.

The missus and I have this exact same thing going on. We have a plan for her to retire in two years. It is not that far off and we have cleared most of the hurdles necessary to get there. And with all that in place, there are still a number of things that could trip us up along the way, so we assume nothing until we get there. As for me, I have a goal to retire by age 60. May be earlier, may be later, but twelve years is so far away it is silly for me to plan any hard dates into it. The best thing we can do is hold the course and do all the things we can to make that goal a reality. In the meantime when I talk about this with friends or peers I tell them about my goals, not my plans. I'm twice your age and I am not immune to the eyerolls either. With reason.

Good point. I often feel like the exception - everything I've every tried really hard at has succeeded, such as getting into a good school, getting good grades, or graduating with a job already landed, directly related to my major in my specific sector of interest, that pays decently well. I have pretty high confidence of my FIRE goal working out as well, particularly as I am really working hard at it. But that doesn't mean something couldn't go wrong, such as my making a mistake or other unfortunate circumstances happening outside of my control. I will try to be more humble.

I like your idea of laying out the clear steps I'm taking towards my goals.

[Cassie]

I was 58 & hubby 53 when we retired. An older couple that we had been friends with for years & are self-employed were jealous & had actually told me not to do it. Left me a message at work.  About a year later we are no longer friends. All my other friendships are fine though. We also both work p.t. consulting in our previous professions because we want to & enjoy it.  After 6 months of retirement we realized this was the right balance for us.  The rest of our friends were happy for us.  Although, our ages don't really make it that early.  I got married young, had 3 boys & then went to college so started my career much later then many which is probably why I wanted to work longer then many.  I hate it when people crap on your dreams.  They are probably very unhappy with their life.

[wtjbatman]

Much like the vigilante crime fighting I do on the weekends, I've told no one. It's my own damn business.

[Daisy]

I am hoping my transition to FIRE will go smoothly with friends. Some conversations around the water cooler at work (well not really at the water cooler but you know what I mean) revealed that there are quite a few of my co-workers/friends that have their mortgage paid off. I know of two people (well they are married to each other) that are definitely planning to retire in their 50s. But maybe they are like me and overshoot the age when broadcasting out to either not seem arrogant or to keep their FIRE stealth to protect their positions at work.

My sister knows my plans. I think she wishes she could do the same. She's definitely frugal like me and we bounce ideas off of each other and collectively roll out eyes at others' over-expenditures. Her husband isn't as frugal but he's not too bad. She wishes to cancel their cable and stuff but finds resistance from him. Recently, his sister got foreclosed on because they took out too much equity on their home and my sister and I discussed the reasons why (second home, new toys, high electricity expense). My sister and I have a secret little competition going where we compare our electricity rates (once we found out how much her sister-in-law spent on electricity and couldn't understand how). Yes, we are a weird family and this was ingrained in us.

Other friends...well I hang out with a cycling group and a lot of them are a little older, own their own business and have flexible hours and can ride whenever they want, and tend to like the outdoors. So I think I'll be hanging around them a lot during FIRE. One friend in particular is in her early 60s. But she lives an almost FIRE life as she runs her own accounting business. She travels a lot, tries to be frugal, and has recently said she was going to retire at 62. At a night out with the girls, she announced this and others were asking how she was going to get by before social security and all. I'm sure she's set and could quit now. We've all always commented on her wonderful and free life as it is. I always tell her I want to be her when I "grow up". But I'm about 17 years younger than her so if I FIRE soon she will be surprised.

It doesn't matter as I am going to treat it as a sabbatical at first, both mentally and telling others, as I assess my situation and react accordingly. After a year or two on sabbatical I can determine if I am truly FIRE.

I have other spendy friends that are in their 50s and struggling and totally dependent on their jobs, so not sure what their reactions will be. I'm just going to let it drag out until they figure it out. No need to make them feel bad about their situation.

[tofuchampion]

Most people respond with something along the lines of "that's impossible," or, "I wish I could retire, but I have too much debt."  No real hostility, just amused disbelief.

I had one person tell me that it's an awesome goal and I can definitely achieve it.  However, this person has some Mustachian tendencies.  I need to find more people like that.

[Spartana]

Other friends...well I hang out with a cycling group and a lot of them are a little older, own their own business and have flexible hours and can ride whenever they want, and tend to like the outdoors. So I think I'll be hanging around them a lot during FIRE. 

One of the things I discovered as a FIREE is that, despite not hanging out with some friends I had before due to work schedules, is that I can still see them in the evening and on weekends and I am much more relaxed and willing to meet up then I was when I had a hectic job. Now if I want I can spend my days doing stuff alone (something I need a lot of) or with some new people and make more quality time (i.e. unhurried) with old friends. However they are still rushed all the time and that doesn't always make it easy.   

[Jessa]

No real hostility, just amused disbelief.

That's mostly what I get from my family. I've told them my goal is to retire when I'm 50 (which is 16 years from now), and my uncles just think I'm adorable.

[Gone Fishing]

Most people respond with something along the lines of "that's impossible," or, "I wish I could retire, but I have too much debt."  No real hostility, just amused disbelief.

Just goes to show how many people are planning on relying heavily on SS and Medicare...

[Kaspian]

I don't volunteer that info to friends anymore, unless they bring it up.  (They know about it and get curious sometimes.)  My friends are pretty rational so they nod and agree about all the good points.  ...Then mull it over for awhile before coming up with reasons why they couldn't do it--that it's easy for me because I'm single, rent, because I don't have kids, loans, gas or car payments.  They also insinuate that I must be missing out on something.  I just calmly refute each one and tell them I can refer them to the proper info on how to do it if they'd like.  If MMM put out a book, it would probably help me immensely.  "Here, just read this if you're actually interested."  :)

[Beric01]

If MMM put out a book, it would probably help me immensely.  "Here, just read this if you're actually interested."  :)

I actually really wish MMM would put out a book - similar to Jacob's ERE. It doesn't have to be a money-maker if he doesn't want it to be - he could just charge at-cost. But a MMM book would be great to hand off to friends, and I admit would also be an enjoyable read.

[Spartana]

I don't volunteer that info to friends anymore, unless they bring it up.  (They know about it and get curious sometimes.)  My friends are pretty rational so they nod and agree about all the good points.  ...Then mull it over for awhile before coming up with reasons why they couldn't do it--that it's easy for me because I'm single, rent, because I don't have kids, loans, gas or car payments.  They also insinuate that I must be missing out on something.  I just calmly refute each one and tell them I can refer them to the proper info on how to do it if they'd like.  If MMM put out a book, it would probably help me immensely.  "Here, just read this if you're actually interested."  :)

Give them a copy of "Your Money Or Your Life". Sort of dated financial advice (at least the original is) but the basic concept is the same as MMM.

[Beric01]

Give them a copy of "Your Money Or Your Life". Sort of dated financial advice (at least the original is) but the basic concept is the same as MMM.

That's the problem - there's no current book!

And while Early Retirement Extreme is excellent, I wouldn't dream of putting it in the hands of a non-INTJ. The book is written for the INTJ. Other personalities, not so much.

[Spartana]

Give them a copy of "Your Money Or Your Life". Sort of dated financial advice (at least the original is) but the basic concept is the same as MMM.

That's the problem - there's no current book!

And while Early Retirement Extreme is excellent, I wouldn't dream of putting it in the hands of a non-INTJ. The book is written for the INTJ. Other personalities, not so much.

What is an INTJ?

One of the authors of YMOYL (Vickie Robbins) did write an updated book but I haven't read it so can't recommend it except to say that a lot of the advice in the first book isn't so much about making money or investing, but living a good life (including FIRE) regardless of your income.

[Beric01]

I'm actually never read YMOYL. I read the top review on Amazon and decided it was pretty skippable. Perhaps it really is good for people who have no concept of not being wasteful? I'm not sure.

[Spartana]

I'm actually never read YMOYL. I read the top review on Amazon and decided it was pretty skippable. Perhaps it really is good for people who have no concept of not being wasteful? I'm not sure.

Yeah I read it after I was already FIRE'd so most of it didn't apply to me but for those who say "it can't be done" I think the 9 steps would help them to see what the what, how, where of their spending habits and make changes. Things like understanding real hourly wages, inventorying all the money you have ever earned, looking at spending as expending "life-energy" rather then just money, tracking expenses, etc... can be a real eye opener for most people.

Of course I would never recommend BUYING a book - get it free from your public library!

[sobezen]

Typically I do not share my early retirement plans with anyone except a few loved ones. You can gauge a persons values by observing their lifestyle. That said, I find discussing FIRE plans with friends and family is a lot like giving unsolicited advice, just do not do it. Despite the best intentions I find it is an utter waste of my time to try to "inspire" or help people who don't already demonstrate a genuine level of interest. Odds are if they are curious, we already chat about FIRE and Mustachian values. YMMV.

Oh and Your Money or Your Life is a great resource. Again if the person is interested in retirement odds are we've discussed this book and other ideas. Cheers! :)

[Daisy]

I'm actually never read YMOYL. I read the top review on Amazon and decided it was pretty skippable. Perhaps it really is good for people who have no concept of not being wasteful? I'm not sure.

You must read it! I consider it the ER bible. I also read it about 10-12 years ago and it's what got me interested in ER...although at the time I put it off to way in the future and would happen in my 50s. The whole life energy thing blew my mind. Right after reading it, I emailed a bunch of friends and told them they had to read it. I didn't get one response back. :-(

YMOYL is what got me started on this path, closely followed by The Millionnaire Next Door and The 4-Hour Work Week (loved his mini-retirements suggestion and have tried to do that between jobs). I read all three books at about the same time.

I thought I was on the right path, but what the MMM blog gave me extra from these was:
- Marvelling in financial badassity instead of trying to keep it hidden
- 4% rule (gave me some guidance on what I really needed)
- Many additional ideas on saving money. I thought I was good before, but he really kicked it up a notch for me.
- Roth conversion ladders - I had been shying away from my 401k because I knew I wanted to tap the money before 59.5.

PS - I got all three books from my Big Corp's own library. Ironic.

[Daisy]

Other friends...well I hang out with a cycling group and a lot of them are a little older, own their own business and have flexible hours and can ride whenever they want, and tend to like the outdoors. So I think I'll be hanging around them a lot during FIRE. 

One of the things I discovered as a FIREE is that, despite not hanging out with some friends I had before due to work schedules, is that I can still see them in the evening and on weekends and I am much more relaxed and willing to meet up then I was when I had a hectic job. Now if I want I can spend my days doing stuff alone (something I need a lot of) or with some new people and make more quality time (i.e. unhurried) with old friends. However they are still rushed all the time and that doesn't always make it easy.

Oh yes, I hate the hurried feeling. Although I am pretty laid back, the full-time workload + chores + parental duties (as in helping my elderly parents) + commuting + exercising + cooking, etc...it just gets hard to find common time to get together with others. It's especially hard to get together with friends who are parents because they have overscheduled their kids and can only find a little time here and there to get together even when they have an interest to.

Side note - I don't remember having birthday parties EVERY weekend when I was a kid. But parents these days seem overloaded with constant birthday parties. It's insane. That, and the travelling sports teams. When do they have time to catch up at home?

I'm looking forward to my FIRE days where I get all of my chores done during the week and can really splurge my time on friends and family on the weekends when they are available. I'm always feeling I don't have enough time on the weekends to fit everything I need to in. I'm a leisurely and slow kind of girl, so FIRE will suit me just fine - as I could tell with my little FIRE flirtations in the past between jobs.

[frompa]

I agree with those who keep their ER plans a close secret.  I don't see any sense in trying to convince others of the best way to deal with their money/time/resources.  The thought of doing so brings to mind this Gandhi quote:  “But you can wake a man only if he is really asleep. No effort that you make will produce any effect upon him if he is merely pretending sleep.”  If any one of my friends or acquaintances asks me for info, I will provide it in a way that makes clear I am personally familiar with the concepts I'm discussing (i.e., living on little, putting most of my income away for the future, focusing on non-consumer and skill developing activity that keeps me happy now, etc.), but even with those people, I am mum about my own plans for and proximity to FIRE.  But everyone has their own way of being with their community of friends, YMMV.

[dude]

Those close to me know my plans, and respond with a mix of support and good-humored envy, though as one aspiring to retire at 54, I'm not retiring THAT "early" (though surely earlier than average).  But I'm reluctant to share with those people I know who I'm not that close to, because invariably there's a jealousy/animosity that stems from the fact that a public sector pension is a key component of my FIRE plans (as if they didn't have the same choices I did when I chose my career).

[NumberCruncher]

I've told a few friends:

-[Friend A - Convo 1]-

Me: Realistically, we could retire in 6 years. We have low expenses and tech salaries.
A: I think that's a horrible idea

-[Friend A - Convo 2]-

A: I'm just kind of sick of working here.
Me: I know what you mean. In about 5 years, I figure I can quit and pursue...whatever I want! We'll have enough saved at that point that we can be free to find something that really interests us.
A: That's awesome!

-[Friend B]-

Me: Oh, you're looking to buy a car? You should check out this blog post!
B: Oh, thanks!

One of many convos about personal finance matters with B. I helped B a bit with retirement account investing (just generally talking about the need for an AA and the virtues of  low fee index funds), and B was already pretty frugal out of necessity (student loans). B and B's SO are now mustachians :D

-[Friend C]-

Friend C is maybe 10 or so years from a traditional retirement age

C: I just want to retire somedays
Me: I know what you mean!
C: Make sure you save enough for retirement - it's important when you're young
Me: We're doing pretty well. We really want to retire early
C: Oh? How early?
Me: Well, if we stay on track, before we're 40! [It would be before I'm 30, but I rounded up a bit...]
C: Oh wow! Yeah, if you don't have kids, you definitely don't need as much [has two kids and is paying college tuition for both]
Me: True...when will you be able to retire?
C: Not for a while. If we wanted to retire soon, we'd have to significantly reduce our quality of life [At this point I just left it, as C is obviously satisfied with their current life, if somewhat frustrated at work some days (C mostly enjoys the work)]