Communications & Tech - The ISP, VoIP and Cellphone Superguide

[Daley]

I'm recommending the product that I personally used that worked.  I'm sure that some here would argue that such a single-use product is silly when you already own a perfectly good knife.

And it just so happens to coincidentally be the most expensive tool for the job available at Amazon and provided with your personal referral link every time it's mentioned, right?

Airvoice customer service actually walks people through the same APN procedure over the phone.

Interesting statement, especially when Airvoice specifically says they won't support iPhones and don't supply the link you recommend anywhere, a link I might add you suggested back in February when you were still with AT&T. Doesn't mean it can't be a valuable tool, but it's not a tool that should be labeled as inherently safe or not using exploits or Airvoice support approved. Unsafe security practices are unsafe security practices and should be prefaced as such.

You can also stack $10 credits.  For instance if you add 2 $10 credits then your expiration date becomes 60 days later.

This info is rather surprising to read given the terms of service posted on Airvoice's website runs contrary to what you say. I also cannot find anyone else on the internet confirming this practice with a cursory Google search or anywhere on HoFo.

I was impressed when the expiration stacking worked for just the reasons you outlined.

Citation needed. I want hard evidence from someone who's selling referral links to Airvoice SIM cards and Airvoice airtime cards and making promises contrary to what Airvoice's stated policies are that have no corroborating proof elsewhere in the world to back them up when they're making what appears to be unrealistic promises to make an MVNO appear to be far more awesome than reality dictates.

[edmcquade]

Airvoice customer service actually walks people through the same APN procedure over the phone.

Interesting statement, especially when Airvoice specifically says they won't support iPhones and don't supply the link you recommend anywhere, a link I might add you suggested back in February when you were still with AT&T. Doesn't mean it can't be a valuable tool, but it's not a tool that should be labeled as inherently safe or not using exploits or Airvoice support approved. Unsafe security practices are unsafe security practices and should be prefaced as such.

I'm not following the security argument.  iOS shows you what settings are getting changed by a profile file before you install it.

You can also stack $10 credits.  For instance if you add 2 $10 credits then your expiration date becomes 60 days later.

This info is rather surprising to read given the terms of service posted on Airvoice's website runs contrary to what you say. I also cannot find anyone else on the internet confirming this practice with a cursory Google search or anywhere on HoFo.

I was impressed when the expiration stacking worked for just the reasons you outlined.

Citation needed. I want hard evidence from someone who's selling referral links to Airvoice SIM cards and Airvoice airtime cards and making promises contrary to what Airvoice's stated policies are that have no corroborating proof elsewhere in the world to back them up when they're making what appears to be unrealistic promises to make an MVNO appear to be far more awesome than reality dictates.

Here you go: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1756667-Air-Voice-Wireless-New-10-monthly-plan?p=14799916#post14799916

[Daley]

I'm not following the security argument.  iOS shows you what settings are getting changed by a profile file before you install it.

Never trust third party sites to do what you should be doing yourself with cell phone configuration, especially when it involves tools that bypass the phone's security.

Here you go: http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1756667-Air-Voice-Wireless-New-10-monthly-plan?p=14799916#post14799916

One post isn't sufficient as proof, and even in light of it possibly being true, I find it interesting that it appears to only pertain to airtime cards purchased through Calling Mart. This indicates that there's a glitch somewhere in the system and as such, should not be expected to keep working indefinitely or reported as standard operating procedure.

I appreciate the feedback, but you understand why your advice deserved to be scrutinized and challenged when you've got a low post count* and you provide information that can easily be viewed as inaccurate and financially self-serving, right?

Edit well after the fact:

* I don't believe people with low post counts can't contribute good information, frequently and often they do. We all start with low post counts, and my own first eight posts on this very forum were the beginnings of this guide. This was brought up solely because he'd poisoned his first attempts at advice with brazen referral links and suggesting unnecessarily expensive tools (well, expensive for what it is, which is decidedly unmustachian), though it was probably unfair to mention as I'd have likely done the same even if he was a Magnum. This is ultimately MMM's house, and anyone who's been here long enough knows that referral links are a no no.

[Daley]

It wasn't my intention to sound elitist with my last post, but re-reading it after some time has passed I fear it does a bit. As such, I've been thinking a lot on the topic and feel I should add this post to the thread.

My first and foremost concerns with any advice in this thread that I provide or others contribute should meet two criteria:

1) The information is accurate and can be easily proven.
2) The information provided is truly a good and honest deal without loopholes or gaming of the system in violation of any terms of service, and would always be recommended first whether the person in question could receive financial incentive or not.

It's about integrity, pure and simple. MMM may have made a post about it recently with his own referral situation, but it's hardly the reason. I do this to help people, and have been doing so for years. Would it be nice to be able to put a little extra food on the table for providing this help? Perhaps, but I would never want to do so at the expense of my integrity. As such, please respect this spirit as contributers to this thread, and don't be surprised if I scrutinize advice offered with this in mind. Lest you think this is a double standard, I want you to do the same with me.

I know we're all human and make mistakes from time to time... I'm hardly innocent on this front, but I try to own up to it. It's one of the things I like about this place, we keep each other honest. We've got something special going here, and I want to keep that spirit of honesty intact with the advice offered.

Ed, I'd love for you to keep participating in the conversation (and more importantly with the rest of the community, not just here), just respect and understand the true purpose and intent of this thread's content: helping others.

[edmcquade]

I must have missed the "no referrals" rule back when I signed up.  MMM promotes his own so much that I thought the conversation was only about your personal view of them in this thread, IP. 

I was interested in helping others, but your combative tone has really spoiled this thread for me.  It really comes across as a lack of trust on your part of people who want to solve these problems using a different set of tools.  I personally have a bunch of tools made by (gasp) Apple.

[arebelspy]

I must have missed the "no referrals" rule back when I signed up.  MMM promotes his own so much that I thought the conversation was only about your personal view of them in this thread, IP. 

I was interested in helping others, but your combative tone has really spoiled this thread for me.  It really comes across as a lack of trust on your part of people who want to solve these problems using a different set of tools.  I personally have a bunch of tools made by (gasp) Apple.

I don't think it's about a lack of trust of those using other tools, but a skepticism (often justified) when people tout things in a way that will make them money.

That's why we would prefer information without the referral links. It creates an automatic conflict of interest.

We'd rather Mustachians share information freely, rather than profit off each other. Especially when it's not done up front, but hidden.

Do you see how that may have elicited a response like I.P.'s?

 I hope you stick around and realize it wasn't personal.

[Daley]

I don't think it's about a lack of trust of those using other tools, but a skepticism (often justified) when people tout things in a way that will make them money.

That's why we would prefer information without the referral links. It creates an automatic conflict of interest.

We'd rather Mustachians share information freely, rather than profit off each other. Especially when it's not done up front, but hidden.

Do you see how that may have elicited a response like I.P.'s?

 I hope you stick around and realize it wasn't personal.

QFT. It's nothing personal. It's a desire to share the highest quality, unbiased and honest information for everyone.

I personally have a bunch of tools made by (gasp) Apple.

As for the software tools, that's another topic entirely and should just be common sense. Anything that bypasses device security or utilizes exploits should be labeled as such. If you hadn't noticed, the Internet's gotten pretty dangerous these days from a security perspective. It's one thing to willingly stick your own neck out on security risks, it's something else entirely to tell others without prefacing the risk or even going so far as to portray it as perfectly safe. I'm a tech by trade, and if I pulled that with a paying client, they could sue me and win if their security was compromised because of advice that I gave that deliberately leaves them vulnerable without them knowing the risks. Free info or not, caveat emptor or not, always advise with your target audience's best interests at heart. Security is in their best interest always, even and especially if they don't think so. If you yourself don't understand the security risks associated with a particular tool, then you probably shouldn't be in a position of recommending it to others, either.

I know I haven't always been the tightest at this personal policy even in this thread with free advice (the earlier Android posts are an example), and I'm sorry for that folks... but it doesn't make the point any less important. Security matters.

I apologize that my brusque tone soured you, Ed. I'm genuinely sorry for that, and I'm trying to make amends publicly for it. However, I will not apologize for challenging the quality of your advice based on the referral links, inaccurate statements about Airvoice policy, and security concerns because that effects everyone.

Make sense? We cool now?

[fiveoh]

Just an update.  Got my airvoicewireless(will refer to as AVW from now on) sim card and the "cheap" sim card cutter in the mail yesterday.   The cutter worked great first try.  Definitely glad I bought that instead of trying to do it by hand.   

I then purchased an AVW $10 prepaid and filled out the form to port my number to them.  It took 2-3 hours for it to go through.   Once my ATT sim no longer worked, I popped in the AVW sim and it worked great.  No messing with APNs like stated above.(I had ATT unlock my phone)  Spent about 4 mins setting up my voicemail(I'm going to miss visual voicemail).  It's nice that every time I make a call it tells me how much I used on my prepaid and how much is left.   

I also called ATT to cancel my service.  Previously my wife and I were on a family plan (she is still under contract so still with ATT), my portion of the bill was $45 a month.  Apparently with the porting process AVW cancelled my line for me!  It was nice to not have to go thru that.  Anyway, while on the phone with ATT they informed me I would need to switch from a family plan to a single plan since it was only one line now.  Saved me another $10 a month by doing so!   

Not too bad of a process, we'll see how many minutes I actually use.   I haven't tried to setup the data on my phone yet but don’t plan on using it unless absolutely needed.  $55 a month more in my savings!  Thanks again for the great guide!   

[edmcquade]

Once my ATT sim no longer worked, I popped in the AVW sim and it worked great.  No messing with APNs like stated above.(I had ATT unlock my phone)

...

Not too bad of a process, we'll see how many minutes I actually use.   I haven't tried to setup the data on my phone yet but don’t plan on using it unless absolutely needed.  $55 a month more in my savings!  Thanks again for the great guide!

You only need to change the APN settings when you decide to start using data.  I've found it very helpful to turn off Cellular Data within the phone's Settings when I'm not trying to intentionally use it.  Glad it's working for you so far!

[Daley]

Just an update.  Got my airvoicewireless(will refer to as AVW from now on) sim card and the "cheap" sim card cutter in the mail yesterday.   The cutter worked great first try.  Definitely glad I bought that instead of trying to do it by hand.   

I then purchased an AVW $10 prepaid and filled out the form to port my number to them.  It took 2-3 hours for it to go through.   Once my ATT sim no longer worked, I popped in the AVW sim and it worked great.  No messing with APNs like stated above.(I had ATT unlock my phone)  Spent about 4 mins setting up my voicemail(I'm going to miss visual voicemail).  It's nice that every time I make a call it tells me how much I used on my prepaid and how much is left.   

I also called ATT to cancel my service.  Previously my wife and I were on a family plan (she is still under contract so still with ATT), my portion of the bill was $45 a month.  Apparently with the porting process AVW cancelled my line for me!  It was nice to not have to go thru that.  Anyway, while on the phone with ATT they informed me I would need to switch from a family plan to a single plan since it was only one line now.  Saved me another $10 a month by doing so!   

Not too bad of a process, we'll see how many minutes I actually use.   I haven't tried to setup the data on my phone yet but don’t plan on using it unless absolutely needed.  $55 a month more in my savings!  Thanks again for the great guide!

Great to hear! Sounds like you got everything set up and converted over, including the data APN, without any trouble?

[fiveoh]

Didnt get the APN to work.  I tried the unlock website method posted above and it does not work. 

The airvoice wireless website has this posted:

http://www.airvoicewireless.com/PhoneSupport.aspx#iPhone

but my phone does not have the cellular data network button to select like it shows on the website. 

Not too big of a deal since I dont plan on using data not on wifi. 

Edit: I Just downloaded the iphone config utility from apple to make my own apn and it still didnt work.  Further digging let me to the Air Voice Wireless page where it says to contact customer service to get data enabled on the $10 plan.  I just emailed them, hopefully that fixes it. 

[jbhernandez]

I just switched my Iphone 3GS to H20 Wireless from ATT. For $25 you get 1000 minutes or 1000 text messages or 80 megs of data, or any combination. I don't plan to use data much, and I usually fall under that amount of usage.
My wife's got an Iphone 4, I still haven't switched her over, going to in the next couple of days. I'll put her on the $40 plan which is unlimited minutes and text, because she'd blow right through the 1000.

I bought 3 SIM cards from Amazon for about 80 cents each, going to try cutting it myself, that's why I bought an extra, got 2 cracks at it.

H20 sends you a link with an app that changes your APN auto-magically.

H20 is also an ATT MVNO, so so far so good.

[Daley]

Didnt get the APN to work.  I tried the unlock website method posted above and it does not work. 

-snip-

Edit: I Just downloaded the iphone config utility from apple to make my own apn and it still didnt work.  Further digging let me to the Air Voice Wireless page where it says to contact customer service to get data enabled on the $10 plan.  I just emailed them, hopefully that fixes it.

Sounds like you got it all hashed out, hopefully. Looks like Ed's statement regarding AT&T MVNO SIMs and the auto-detection problems with the APN are an issue across the board after all (which makes sense, sorta, given how batguano AT&T's data policies are and their rigid APN configuration options to enforce those said data policies).

Glad you found the iPhone Configuration Utility for APN modification already, I was going to recommend using it to change the APN if iOS was going to prove problematic to reconfigure data services despite unlocking. Linking it for others, though.

[sol]

I recently switched from a contract phone (HTC Evo on Sprint) to a prepaid (LG Optimus Elite on Virgin Mobile) based largely on the advice in this thread, and thus far have been thrilled with the decision.

The switch over process took a few days because I wanted to keep my number.  The VM website says it takes 4-24 hours, but mine took more like three days and three phone calls.

I'm on the $35 unlimited data plan, which includes 300 minutes.  This is ALL minutes you're on the phone, nights and weekends and mobile to mobile and everything, so look at your current bill closely before making the switch.

One possible downside; Virgin Mobile only operates on the Sprint network, which means no network sharing.  When I had the Evo I could get reception through Verizon and it just showed up as "roaming".  I was in Fairbanks Alaska when I switched over, and my old Evo worked fine and the new Optimus didn't work at all, even though they ostensibly work on the same network.  Fortunately I get real Sprint coverage at the places I tend to frequent, so it hasn't been a problem for me other than that trip to Alaska.

So far the phone and the service have been great, and I'm paying less than half my old bill for exactly zero changes to my data-heavy lifestyle.

Thanks again to IPD for spreading the good word.

[Fred Tracy]

Awesome post! I'm a bit of a phone newbie at this point because I've always been on my parent's AT&T family plan for $10/month. That's unlimited calls/texts, but it's not a smartphone...

According to this guide, I could get a smartphone (+upfront cost) for like $5/month if I wanted to? Count me in!

So.. I have a couple questions.

Edit: Google sorted it out. Still going through the post, thanks for the info.

Double Edit: After considering what a smartphone would actually do for me, I've realized I don't really need one. It's pretty cool that I someone could get the price so low though if they did want one.

[igthebold]

Awesome post! I'm a bit of a phone newbie at this point because I've always been on my parent's AT&T family plan for $10/month. That's unlimited calls/texts, but it's not a smartphone...

According to this guide, I could get a smartphone (+upfront cost) for like $5/month if I wanted to? Count me in!

So.. I have a couple questions.

Edit: Google sorted it out. Still going through the post, thanks for the info.

Double Edit: After considering what a smartphone would actually do for me, I've realized I don't really need one. It's pretty cool that I someone could get the price so low though if they did want one.

If you can get unlimited talk and text for $10/month, that's what you should do. Smartphones are overrated. Most of what they provide can be gotten with a little planning and forethought.

[Daley]

Awesome post! I'm a bit of a phone newbie at this point because I've always been on my parent's AT&T family plan for $10/month. That's unlimited calls/texts, but it's not a smartphone...

According to this guide, I could get a smartphone (+upfront cost) for like $5/month if I wanted to? Count me in!

So.. I have a couple questions.

Edit: Google sorted it out. Still going through the post, thanks for the info.

Double Edit: After considering what a smartphone would actually do for me, I've realized I don't really need one. It's pretty cool that I someone could get the price so low though if they did want one.

If you can get unlimited talk and text for $10/month, that's what you should do. Smartphones are overrated. Most of what they provide can be gotten with a little planning and forethought.

On one hand, I want to agree with Ig here about if you're able to get unlimited talk/text for $10 a month out of pocket piggybacking on your parents account, you can't do much better than that as you can just use it. On the other hand, you learn nothing about discipline in phone usage, you aren't directly managing your own phone services and are still dependent on your parents for that service, and I know it means your parents are getting shafted for overpaying for what all the actual cellphone usage really should be costing the family in total because AT&T unlimited family plans are not cheap. Taking yourself off the plan and demonstrating that cheaper services can be had to them without even switching handsets would be a great thing for everyone involved.

I also agree that for a majority of users, a smartphone might actually be a bit of a liability and overkill for what's needed, but having the option of a smartphone opens up cheaper data messaging options that a feature phone doesn't have as well as provides the option of utilizing a VoIP account as well if you're into that sort of thing.

If you've been fine on your feature phone (which it sounds like you are), stick with it. Great thing about it being an AT&T handset is that you don't even technically have to have it carrier unlocked in order to use it with most of the GSM MVNOs in this country (though I would suggest that you take the time to have AT&T provide you with the unlock code before jumping ship anyway as it's a good thing to have done in general as it'll take any SIM card from any carrier in the world at that point). Also make sure that you porting your phone number out won't break contract, or if it does, be willing to pay the penalty for your parents for doing so.

Going with Airvoice means you'll be in for a minimum of $10 a month versus the prices you quoted for going with P'tel, but keep in mind, these are all prices that are as low as they are because of a lack of use. On Platinumtel, $5 in a month only gets you 100 minutes or 250 text messages or 50MB of data or some combination thereof. If you're in for $10 a month anyway, you don't have to be quite as mindful of the used minutes as that provides 250 minutes or 500 text messages, and technically even though data rates are more expensive, their per minute rates are cheaper and their SMS rates are identical. You also get the added bonus of re-using your current phone in the process, you don't have to transplant all your contacts between phones, and you already know what sort of reception to expect in your area being with AT&T. I'd reckon Airvoice would likely be your wisest first transition into the wide world of MVNOs and it shouldn't even jar your personal budget if your monthly usage falls in line with what you'd get.

[Nephi]

I'd like to give an update as well of my own android experience so far. I started service I believe on 3/15/12 and at the time the special was ~$80 for the samsung intercept with a bonus $50 top up card. almost four months later, my balance is at $24.36. That is around $6.25/month counting just the $50 top up. Overall, considering the original cost of $80 for the phone and top up card plus $10 for a new phone since my original was lost and then stolen, (I kept my original airtime and put the new top up on my wife's phone, so I'm not including the whole $60) it's $16.25/month so far. Compared to my previous $25/month service with Virgin Mobile and a rumor touch (If you think an intercept is a bad phone, the rumor touch is even worse) That's almost $10 savings a month plus room to improve even more. I almost exclusively use wifi instead of 3g. I have wifi both at home and work so that works out well most of the time. I have rooted my phone and changed the loader, as well as using easy battery saver and onavo count (I might end up taking onavo off since it doesn't seem entirely necessary). Recently my phone has had some slowing and occasionally freezing issues, but nothing too serious. I'm hoping to be able to make it the whole rest of the time before the card expires before I have to buy a new one. The problem I first had when I got the phone of Google Voice using more data than I had expected isn't a problem for me, either. The vast majority of my txts were to my fiance, but now that we are married we're together most of the time when not working anyways. And as I was typing this my wife set up Kik messenger on her phone as well. :) As a side note, I just noticed an offer on the Platinumtel website for a flip phone and $50 top up card for $39.99 with free shipping.

[Daley]

I have rooted my phone and changed the loader, as well as using easy battery saver and onavo count (I might end up taking onavo off since it doesn't seem entirely necessary). Recently my phone has had some slowing and occasionally freezing issues, but nothing too serious.

I abandoned Onavo a while back already due to multiple issues, including draining battery life a bit quicker, constantly resetting its own data count, and overall just not needing to keep tabs on data usage on a phone that barely uses any data as configured.

As for the twitchiness with the rooted Intercept, I've actually found a fix for that even though I'm not 100% certain on the cause (though I suspect it might be an issue with Crappy Kernel - will be looking into other options eventually). Turn off the phone and unplug the USB cable, power it on using the Vol-Down + Talk + End/Power button key combo to enter into CM Recovery, and from there, run Advanced > Fix Permissions, and reboot back into the phone. This seems to fix the behavior problems.

[Fred Tracy]

Whew! I've been trying to absorb all of this info. I think at this point, in terms of maximum cost effectiveness, I have basically two options:

1. Get a $40/month plan from Cox for 3mb internet, plus my $10/month family plan dumbphone.. OR
2. Get a smartphone with limited call minutes and no texting, but with unlimited data plan, then use google voice for texts, and tether the device at my apartment for internet use.

#2 sounds good, but I have some questions... first of all, does unlimited data even exist anymore? How much is it? If it's $40 just for the data plan plus like $20/month for the rest of the smartphone package, then I may as well go with option #1.

I am also curious about using the phone for my internet. I'm okay with it being slow, but from what I understand I may have to pay more to use it as a mobile hotspot, or do it illegally and risk getting billed for more..

As I understand, I.P., you don't recommend using your phone for your home internet, right? Why is that?

Thanks for any help!! :)

[arebelspy]

FWIW, I use Sprint, tether approximately 30GB/mo and have for years. It's not terrific speed, but it's equivalent to the cheapest local $20-30 cable plan... I'd have to pay 50-60/mo. (on top of cell costs) to get faster.

Since I don't play games, I don't care about Internet speeds and put up with 3G speeds. Others might not be able to put up with the low speeds.

I've never had an issue with using lots of data. Peak use has probably been 50gb in a month, rarely lower than 20.

Plan costs $50 for iPhone with unlimited data, $30 for the wife's (and my previous, which I could downgrade to in order to save $20/mo, but the iPhone is one of my few luxuries I'm okay with at a 70% savings rate) with unlimited data.

[Daley]

Whew! I've been trying to absorb all of this info. I think at this point, in terms of maximum cost effectiveness, I have basically two options:

1. Get a $40/month plan from Cox for 3mb internet, plus my $10/month family plan dumbphone.. OR
2. Get a smartphone with limited call minutes and no texting, but with unlimited data plan, then use google voice for texts, and tether the device at my apartment for internet use.

#2 sounds good, but I have some questions... first of all, does unlimited data even exist anymore? How much is it? If it's $40 just for the data plan plus like $20/month for the rest of the smartphone package, then I may as well go with option #1.

I am also curious about using the phone for my internet. I'm okay with it being slow, but from what I understand I may have to pay more to use it as a mobile hotspot, or do it illegally and risk getting billed for more..

As I understand, I.P., you don't recommend using your phone for your home internet, right? Why is that?

Thanks for any help!! :)

I don't typically recommend wireless data for most people because wireless data per GB is the most expensive you can typically get in this country. RebelSpy's a special exception given how he's structured his services and his grandfathered in status with Sprint (plus I'm at a loss to remember if he's officially blessed by Sprint to tether with his plan or not), but even with Sprint's modern "Unlimited" plans... it's all about reading the fine print.

You'll note that on the very page that Sprint is touting their unlimited everything plan, the fine print on the very same page specifically states that they reserve the right to terminate your service for utilizing in excess of 800 minutes or 300MB of data in a month. This means that although they are not currently enforcing this policy with their users, it gives them the option to axe anyone and everyone from the plan whenever they desire with decidedly limited usage numbers, which given the necessity for a two year contract to qualify for the plan as well could make the situation rather costly rather quickly if you find yourself in breach of contract with your services terminated. This just highlights the fact that "unlimited" plans are ultimately never unlimited forever and it's always better to deal with providers that deal with hard numbers. Unlimited wireless data almost never remains unlimited for users who tether, either.

If you're living on your own and having to take responsibility for your own bills, I would actually recommend against staying on your parents' plan as well. Better to fully establish yourself independently, and fully realize how much you could be costing your parents with their own cell service even if you are only paying $10 a month.

Given the two options you appear to think you're down to and your willingness to sacrifice certain conveniences in your setup, I'm going to recommend a third that fits quite nicely into a bit of both categories in regards to higher end of total price per month budget, lack of features with the phone, willingness to have data only at home, and still have the potential to reduce costs in the future through personal discipline and the addition of a VoIP carrier.

I firmly believe that for the rough budget you'd be looking at for trying to do an "unlimited" plan with an outfit like Sprint ($80+taxes), you could easily set up a 3Mbps Cox connection ($40) and switch your phone to Airvoice's $35 gratuitous 5k voice/10k SMS talk and text plan and stay with your current phone for $5 less per month and no massive outlay of cash upfront for a new qualifying expensive smartphone (which you yourself have said holds no interest for you) or new account deposits. You could shave another $15+ a month off that total if you can get by with less than 500 minutes a month by doubling up their $10/month plan, as well. You'd also gain the added badassity of managing and being responsible for your entire telecomm costs.

Ultimately, it's your choice... but as you can see, you're not as limited in options as you think you are.

[Fred Tracy]

Thanks for the input guys. I looked around a little and it seems that wireless data is indeed incredibly expensive. I can't seem to find a single plan, even for ~$50, that would do what I want it to do. The $40 cox bill + my $10/month phone service seems to be the most frugal/best option.

I could get rid of my family plan and do something else, but I don't see any reason to just yet. As I understand it, the family plan costs a flat (pretty high) rate, then $10 per additional line. The only way I'd save anyone any money is if I actually convinced my uncle (the one with the family plan) to drop it all together. But that's really not going to happen.. no reason except that's his personality.

Still though, it would be pretty cool to pay officially 100% of all my own bills. Not cool enough to warrant the hassle of paying more money for less service though! :P Maybe in due time though. Or perhaps when I no longer need my phone for work. I could just stop texting so much and go fully prepaid, and pay probably way less than $10/month.

Actually, I only use perhaps 5-10 minutes a week for work purposes, so who am I fooling. It's mainly the texting.. it's pretty darn useful to me. I'm not so ready to do without it yet! I was quite surprised when I just looked at my phone and realized I'd sent/received like 300 texts in the past week. Jeez.

Anyhow, nice thread.

Edit: seems like airvoice's website is down.. going to check out some prepaid plans and see if I can get a decent amount of texts for less than $10/month.

Double Edit: Wait a minute, look at this: http://www.virginmobileusa.com/cell-phone-plans/beyond-talk-plans.jsp
It says unlimited texting/data for $35/month.. is that correct? :O

Oh - I get it. It's "unlimited" but after 2.5gb of usage, you then get capped to 256k. And 2.5gb isn't that much... yuck!

[sol]

Oh - I get it. It's "unlimited" but after 2.5gb of usage, you then get capped to 256k. And 2.5gb isn't that much... yuck!

I'm on that plan, and it's working out great for me. 

And WTF are you doing that 2.5gb data isn't that much?  Do you watch netflix on your phone over the cell connection?  You know wifi doesn't count towards your data limit, right?

[arebelspy]

Oh - I get it. It's "unlimited" but after 2.5gb of usage, you then get capped to 256k. And 2.5gb isn't that much... yuck!

I'm on that plan, and it's working out great for me. 

And WTF are you doing that 2.5gb data isn't that much?  Do you watch netflix on your phone over the cell connection?  You know wifi doesn't count towards your data limit, right?

With what Fred is looking to do, the phone connection would be providing be wifi.  There would be no other Internet connection for wifi.  So all usage goes through it.

With that in mind, 2.5 gb isn't that much.

[Daley]

Oh - I get it. It's "unlimited" but after 2.5gb of usage, you then get capped to 256k. And 2.5gb isn't that much... yuck!

I'm on that plan, and it's working out great for me. 

And WTF are you doing that 2.5gb data isn't that much?  Do you watch netflix on your phone over the cell connection?  You know wifi doesn't count towards your data limit, right?

With what Fred is looking to do, the phone connection would be providing be wifi.  There would be no other Internet connection for wifi.  So all usage goes through it.

With that in mind, 2.5 gb isn't that much.

It's also against terms of service to tether with any of the phones unless you a) purchase either a $300 HTC Evo V, $550 iPhone 4, or $650 iPhone 4S and b) pay an extra $15 a month for hotspot access which then ties you up for a minimum of $50 a month and gives you 3.5GB of data before throttling. I'm not saying it can't be done elsewise, but it's a quick way to get your account bounced if you get caught, and unless you're running all your traffic through a VPN or keeping data usage well under the throttle point and spread out (not likely if you're wanting to use it for a regular internet connection), they'll eventually catch you. Best to stay honest and not breach the terms, and adhering to the terms potentially involves purchases that deserve great deals of face punching. Keeping honest and not abusing the service also potentially keeps overall data costs lower for everyone.

Still though, it would be pretty cool to pay officially 100% of all my own bills. Not cool enough to warrant the hassle of paying more money for less service though! :P Maybe in due time though. Or perhaps when I no longer need my phone for work. I could just stop texting so much and go fully prepaid, and pay probably way less than $10/month.

Actually, I only use perhaps 5-10 minutes a week for work purposes, so who am I fooling. It's mainly the texting.. it's pretty darn useful to me. I'm not so ready to do without it yet! I was quite surprised when I just looked at my phone and realized I'd sent/received like 300 texts in the past week. Jeez.

Ohs noes! Spending an extra $25 will only give you 8500 more text messages or 4200 voice minutes than you actually need per month! You're so getting ripped off paying for less service with a fixed cap over having a truly unlimited plan! :p

In all seriousness, though, the levels of text messaging you're wanting to do is going to ultimately cost you... in the prepaid market with any significant voice time included, you're in for at least $30+ a month, no matter who you go with (which is still cheaper than pretty much any post-paid plan available with an "unlimited" text plan). Given it sounds like the majority of your communications costs are work related, why isn't your employer paying for this outright or at least giving you a stipend?

If you can rein in your texting, (excluding certain T-Mo packages*) the cheapest per SMS you're going to get will be 2¢ each either through P'tel or Airvoice currently in the fully prepaid and under the $30 price point. As such, the best you're going to find with any $10 prepaid plan for texting currently will be 500 messages. There is of course Google Voice for free "seamless" texting with an Android phone, but it can be unreliable at times (yes, even with their SMS messaging - one of the costs of free). Chomp isn't an option unless both ends have it and smartphones for data only texting, and the software is RAM hungry and buggy. Kik's your best alternative, but again requires both ends running it to utilize the data connection and it still requires a smartphone at both ends that you admit you don't actually need.

*That said, now that I've a better handle on your usage profile, T-Mobile prepaid might be worth looking into. With an average of 5-10 minutes of talk a week and the level of texting you do, the $15 Unlimited Text and 10¢/minute plan could put you under $20 a month. If you get your phone unlocked from AT&T, you could keep using it as well.

[arebelspy]

This may be an philosophic aside better suited for another thread if you're interested in the discussion but... are terms of service that are clearly not enforced actually important to abide by?  (To illustrate my point see: many, many laws on the books that are antiquated and not enforced, so everyone ignores them.)

[Fred Tracy]

Thanks for the breakdown I.P.!

And yes, I would be using the phone as my only internet connection.. so 2.5gb isn't a whole lot. I've blasted through that in a day before (though not as much lately).

[cosmie]

We're currently with F9 and our plans are to stay with F9 until around July-ish, and switch to VOIPo with the first major bargain package at under $8/month after tax offered during that time-frame. That said, I would be remiss to let you think we're switching to VOIPo because of the price, because we aren't.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the quality of service Nitzan over at F9 provides and love that it's a smaller mom-and-pop style provider that kicks ass and competes with the 800lb gorillas in the industry like VOIPo with aplomb. I also understand that he's gotta make money somewhere to keep the doors open, and I will miss doing regular business with him... but given our desire to get away from Google Voice, there's just some calling features we've found invaluable and want to keep that he has yet to provide for unknown reasons despite being on the feature roadmap for years (specifically global call hunt), and I've given up on ever seeing it implemented. Otherwise we'd just stay put out of loyalty and would have already switched to his America Free package despite the higher price and lower minute count than his competitors.

Even after the planned switch though, we're not entirely dropping F9. We're planning to go over to a strictly outgoing only pay-as-you-go account with no DID and using them as our "international long distance" provider as they have some of the best international rates available period. That should answer your question with plenty of extra color.

I skimmed through the rest of your posts looking to see if you had switched yet, but didn't see mention of it.
For you (and anyone else watching this thread), VOIPo is running a special until midnight tonight Central time, for 2 years at $129 (came to $165 with taxes), which works out to $6.88/month including taxes.


I also have a few questions regarding cell service:

How do you suggest going about finding the service with the best coverage for your area? I'm currently piggybacking off of a Sprint family plan with an original Evo. That ends next month, at which time I need to have alternative options lined up. The problem is I get terrible service at my house. I get nothing when on Sprint itself, and when I force roaming (on Verizon, I'm assuming), I get 1 bar which allows me to make calls in a few very specific areas of the house. This is probably due to the construction of our condo (we're smack in the center of a 5-unit building), so I'm not sure if ATT or T-Mo would be any better. As we've had people over I've tried to use them to gauge service, but they're all on Verizon or Sprint.


As well, my Evo is pretty much shot and I'll require a new phone with my new service. The screen is kinda finicky, the power button has to be pressed three or four times to get it to turn the screen on (from standby, not powered-off), and the power port is completely shot (only one specific cord, inserted at one specific angle, is capable of getting it to charge). I'm pretty sure that this is due to my time working at Dominos, where my phone came in contact with copious amounts of cornmeal and grease. I'm wanting to replace it with a Galaxy Nexus, as it's virtually guaranteed to be always up-to-date either officially by Google or unofficially by custom roms, due to the carrier-agnostic nature of the phone. I know they have both GSM and CDMA versions of the phone, but I remember hearing grumblings about the Verizon/CDMA version, and Google dropped the CDMA version from their own store. Do you know of any particular reasons to stay away from this phone?

I'd also like your opinion on services. My current usage (on a 12 month average, taken from Sprint's usage tracker) is:
Minutes: 800/mnth
Texts: 650/mnth (12 month avg, it's actually down to 500 at a 6-month avg, ever since I started being conscious about my texting habits)
Monthly Data: 600MB per month.

With the addition of VOIPo home service and the fact that the majority of my cell calls happen at home anyway, I think I can conservatively estimate my monthly minutes at 400. Of that 400, at least 200 will be in the presence of wifi, which (I believe) I can use my VOIPo account via a SIP client on my phone, and about 50-100 minutes I can knock off unnecessary chit chat by saying I'm low on minutes. I think 500 texts per month is probably about the lowest I can estimate, with approx. 70% of those being incoming texts. As for data, that has already dropped to ~500 in recent months, and I think I can get that down to 300MB with little trouble. If I stay conscientious about my usage (by disabling data and only turning it on when truly necessary), I think I can drop it down to 100MB per month. So my lowest ideal usage would be 100 min/500 txt/100MB. The caveat being that my usage tends more towards cyclical rather than a monthly constant, due to being a student and frequent traveling to family (some without wifi, some with 10+ hour drives). I'm currently leaning towards Ting with a spoofed ESN for a Nexus. Using Ting would result in a typical monthly cost of $17 (100 min/1000 txt/100MB), and a "peak" monthly cost of $33 (1000 min/1000 txt/500MB) during months that involve extended visits to family.

Do you think there are any better options for me?

[Daley]

This may be an philosophic aside better suited for another thread if you're interested in the discussion but... are terms of service that are clearly not enforced actually important to abide by?  (To illustrate my point see: many, many laws on the books that are antiquated and not enforced, so everyone ignores them.)

It's an interesting and fascinating topic that I'd love to debate with you and others as well as share my thoughts on, but I'm equally hesitant to do so in this thread. If you'll humor me with some time and a possible venue shift, I've got a couple bigger things I need to square away next few weeks before ramping up my side-project to the superguide (dedicated wiki), and I think I'd like to do a dedicated post on the topic to the accompanying blog if you're down with possibly having the discussion there instead.

Thanks for the breakdown I.P.!

And yes, I would be using the phone as my only internet connection.. so 2.5gb isn't a whole lot. I've blasted through that in a day before (though not as much lately).

De nada. It's just what I do. :)

[Daley]

We're currently with F9 and our plans are to stay with F9 until around July-ish, and switch to VOIPo with the first major bargain package at under $8/month after tax offered during that time-frame. That said, I would be remiss to let you think we're switching to VOIPo because of the price, because we aren't.

Don't get me wrong, I adore the quality of service Nitzan over at F9 provides and love that it's a smaller mom-and-pop style provider that kicks ass and competes with the 800lb gorillas in the industry like VOIPo with aplomb. I also understand that he's gotta make money somewhere to keep the doors open, and I will miss doing regular business with him... but given our desire to get away from Google Voice, there's just some calling features we've found invaluable and want to keep that he has yet to provide for unknown reasons despite being on the feature roadmap for years (specifically global call hunt), and I've given up on ever seeing it implemented. Otherwise we'd just stay put out of loyalty and would have already switched to his America Free package despite the higher price and lower minute count than his competitors.

Even after the planned switch though, we're not entirely dropping F9. We're planning to go over to a strictly outgoing only pay-as-you-go account with no DID and using them as our "international long distance" provider as they have some of the best international rates available period. That should answer your question with plenty of extra color.

I skimmed through the rest of your posts looking to see if you had switched yet, but didn't see mention of it.
For you (and anyone else watching this thread), VOIPo is running a special until midnight tonight Central time, for 2 years at $129 (came to $165 with taxes), which works out to $6.88/month including taxes.


I also have a few questions regarding cell service:

How do you suggest going about finding the service with the best coverage for your area? I'm currently piggybacking off of a Sprint family plan with an original Evo. That ends next month, at which time I need to have alternative options lined up. The problem is I get terrible service at my house. I get nothing when on Sprint itself, and when I force roaming (on Verizon, I'm assuming), I get 1 bar which allows me to make calls in a few very specific areas of the house. This is probably due to the construction of our condo (we're smack in the center of a 5-unit building), so I'm not sure if ATT or T-Mo would be any better. As we've had people over I've tried to use them to gauge service, but they're all on Verizon or Sprint.


As well, my Evo is pretty much shot and I'll require a new phone with my new service. The screen is kinda finicky, the power button has to be pressed three or four times to get it to turn the screen on (from standby, not powered-off), and the power port is completely shot (only one specific cord, inserted at one specific angle, is capable of getting it to charge). I'm pretty sure that this is due to my time working at Dominos, where my phone came in contact with copious amounts of cornmeal and grease. I'm wanting to replace it with a Galaxy Nexus, as it's virtually guaranteed to be always up-to-date either officially by Google or unofficially by custom roms, due to the carrier-agnostic nature of the phone. I know they have both GSM and CDMA versions of the phone, but I remember hearing grumblings about the Verizon/CDMA version, and Google dropped the CDMA version from their own store. Do you know of any particular reasons to stay away from this phone?

I'd also like your opinion on services. My current usage (on a 12 month average, taken from Sprint's usage tracker) is:
Minutes: 800/mnth
Texts: 650/mnth (12 month avg, it's actually down to 500 at a 6-month avg, ever since I started being conscious about my texting habits)
Monthly Data: 600MB per month.

With the addition of VOIPo home service and the fact that the majority of my cell calls happen at home anyway, I think I can conservatively estimate my monthly minutes at 400. Of that 400, at least 200 will be in the presence of wifi, which (I believe) I can use my VOIPo account via a SIP client on my phone, and about 50-100 minutes I can knock off unnecessary chit chat by saying I'm low on minutes. I think 500 texts per month is probably about the lowest I can estimate, with approx. 70% of those being incoming texts. As for data, that has already dropped to ~500 in recent months, and I think I can get that down to 300MB with little trouble. If I stay conscientious about my usage (by disabling data and only turning it on when truly necessary), I think I can drop it down to 100MB per month. So my lowest ideal usage would be 100 min/500 txt/100MB. The caveat being that my usage tends more towards cyclical rather than a monthly constant, due to being a student and frequent traveling to family (some without wifi, some with 10+ hour drives). I'm currently leaning towards Ting with a spoofed ESN for a Nexus. Using Ting would result in a typical monthly cost of $17 (100 min/1000 txt/100MB), and a "peak" monthly cost of $33 (1000 min/1000 txt/500MB) during months that involve extended visits to family.

Do you think there are any better options for me?

We haven't had the opportunity to switch to VOIPo yet, had more irons in the fire than I care to admit here lately, so it's lower priority. They've actually been running the $129/two year deal off and on here for the past few months, thanks for highlighting it for the others, though!

As for checking coverage for your area, all you can do is check the coverage maps from the major carriers and test reception yourself, and you're likely right that your location is lending interference and reduced signal quality, especially depending on tower location. Unfortunately, femtocells as a fallback aren't really an option with MVNOs... though, I doubt you'd want to waste your home bandwidth uncompensated for other people's cell calls either. There's also wireless extenders like the zBoost, but I'd hardly call spending $300+ to improve cell reception somewhere where one would/should normally be using the cheaper per minute VoIP home phone instead a wise investment.

As for thoughts on the Nexus? Other than being too bloody big to be a phone IMHO (and the price), not really. Samsung makes decent hardware. You'd probably want to go with a GSM carrier, though, just for simplicity sake.

As for carrier given your usage patterns, Ting really does sound like the better option outside of your problematic Sprint/Verizon CDMA coverage at home. Fortunately, Ting does provide call forwarding (including conditional), so you can just have calls to your cell fall over to your VOIPo number. Doesn't do much for SMS messaging in dead zones, but scabbing that in using Google Voice for your SMS number might be a decent compromise.

Kind of a sticky situation as a GSM carrier would be ideal for your phone preference and possibly for reception, but a CDMA carrier (Ting specifically) would probably be your best carrier choice based on your usage habits. Honestly, reducing costs in your communications bills requires compromise and a certain degree of service sacrifice in the end to make it work... as for suggesting what to do in your situation specifically, I don't know what's most important to you. I know what I'd do in your position, but my choice probably wouldn't be right for you.

Hope this helped.

[TLV]

For you (and anyone else watching this thread), VOIPo is running a special until midnight tonight Central time, for 2 years at $129 (came to $165 with taxes), which works out to $6.88/month including taxes.

I've looked at the VOIPo website fairly frequently recently because we plan to sign up at the end of the month when our cell contract ends, and every single time I open it the same "Sale ends in 11 hours and 59 minutes" count down starts over.

[arebelspy]

This may be an philosophic aside better suited for another thread if you're interested in the discussion but... are terms of service that are clearly not enforced actually important to abide by?  (To illustrate my point see: many, many laws on the books that are antiquated and not enforced, so everyone ignores them.)

It's an interesting and fascinating topic that I'd love to debate with you and others as well as share my thoughts on, but I'm equally hesitant to do so in this thread. If you'll humor me with some time and a possible venue shift, I've got a couple bigger things I need to square away next few weeks before ramping up my side-project to the superguide (dedicated wiki), and I think I'd like to do a dedicated post on the topic to the accompanying blog if you're down with possibly having the discussion there instead.

You got it.

[cosmie]

As for checking coverage for your area, all you can do is check the coverage maps from the major carriers and test reception yourself, and you're likely right that your location is lending interference and reduced signal quality, especially depending on tower location. Unfortunately, femtocells as a fallback aren't really an option with MVNOs... though, I doubt you'd want to waste your home bandwidth uncompensated for other people's cell calls either. There's also wireless extenders like the zBoost, but I'd hardly call spending $300+ to improve cell reception somewhere where one would/should normally be using the cheaper per minute VoIP home phone instead a wise investment.

As for carrier given your usage patterns, Ting really does sound like the better option outside of your problematic Sprint/Verizon CDMA coverage at home. Fortunately, Ting does provide call forwarding (including conditional), so you can just have calls to your cell fall over to your VOIPo number. Doesn't do much for SMS messaging in dead zones, but scabbing that in using Google Voice for your SMS number might be a decent compromise.

Oh, that call forwarding looks nice. Reception in my house is such that moving around will bring in enough of a signal to get SMS, and I'm already used to that being spotty anyway. Plus, spotty SMS will probably entice me to just pick up the house phone and call them back. xD

As for thoughts on the Nexus? Other than being too bloody big to be a phone IMHO (and the price), not really. Samsung makes decent hardware. You'd probably want to go with a GSM carrier, though, just for simplicity sake.

I completely agree with you there, however I use my phone less as a phone and more as a computer replacement. I make extensive use of Google Calendar because my daily schedule is very erratic, I use Evernote to keep my lists (lists keep me focused and productive), I use Google Maps as a GPS replacement, I use Spotify (in offline mode) as a music player, and I use the email client to monitor and respond to 3 email addresses for work without having to drag my computer out. So I see it a small computer that I occasionally have to put to my face and awkwardly use as a phone. That's actually the main reason for the Nexus: It's like buying a computer via Microsoft that's guaranteed to get the latest version of Windows, vs. going with a computer from Dell that's going to be outdated, unusable, and abandoned in 6 months to a year.

Kind of a sticky situation as a GSM carrier would be ideal for your phone preference and possibly for reception, but a CDMA carrier (Ting specifically) would probably be your best carrier choice based on your usage habits. Honestly, reducing costs in your communications bills requires compromise and a certain degree of service sacrifice in the end to make it work... as for suggesting what to do in your situation specifically, I don't know what's most important to you. I know what I'd do in your position, but my choice probably wouldn't be right for you.

What would make a GSM carrier ideal? Due to the easeness of sim cards, or another reason?

[Daley]

Oh, that call forwarding looks nice. Reception in my house is such that moving around will bring in enough of a signal to get SMS, and I'm already used to that being spotty anyway. Plus, spotty SMS will probably entice me to just pick up the house phone and call them back. xD

Keep in mind that you will get billed for minutes used by Ting during call forwarding from the cell phone to your VOIP account, but otherwise, should be fine.

I completely agree with you there, however I use my phone less as a phone and more as a computer replacement. I make extensive use of Google Calendar because my daily schedule is very erratic, I use Evernote to keep my lists (lists keep me focused and productive), I use Google Maps as a GPS replacement, I use Spotify (in offline mode) as a music player, and I use the email client to monitor and respond to 3 email addresses for work without having to drag my computer out. So I see it a small computer that I occasionally have to put to my face and awkwardly use as a phone. That's actually the main reason for the Nexus: It's like buying a computer via Microsoft that's guaranteed to get the latest version of Windows, vs. going with a computer from Dell that's going to be outdated, unusable, and abandoned in 6 months to a year.

Fair enough.

What would make a GSM carrier ideal? Due to the easeness of sim cards, or another reason?

GSM would be an ideal carrier network (excluding the slim possibility of better reception) because of the desire to use a Nexus and/or specifically have a computer replacement device. You don't have to hunt down a CDMA model of the Galaxy Nexus or hack at the thing and spoof an ESN to get it working on whatever CDMA MVNO you choose to go with and deal with any potential baseband funkiness. You just drop in the GSM card, configure your APN and you're done. Unfortunately, prepaid GSM MVNO options (especially where data is required) can be expensive due to the necessity of dealing with the Devil. That said, the Galaxy SII is getting an ICS update, but that might not be quite as appealing an idea due to your desire to get guaranteed OS upgrades for a while with a flagship Google device. However, even those devices will eventually stop getting official upgrades.

Unfortunately as you can now likely see, affordable low-end prepaid (Sprint-based CDMA MVNOs) and high-end handsets (typically GSM) tend to be pretty mutually exclusive things. CDMA handset portability in this nation is a fuggin' nightmare and we're one of the last remaining handset locked CDMA markets in the world, so the phone manufacturers don't really give a crap about making decent CDMA handsets. The only handset alternative gives us a network duopoly with AT&T running roughshod on setting access pricing.

Cosmie? Meet your two new friends: rock and hard place. Sorry, chum.

[cosmie]

Oh, that call forwarding looks nice. Reception in my house is such that moving around will bring in enough of a signal to get SMS, and I'm already used to that being spotty anyway. Plus, spotty SMS will probably entice me to just pick up the house phone and call them back. xD

Keep in mind that you will get billed for minutes used by Ting during call forwarding from the cell phone to your VOIP account, but otherwise, should be fine.

Ah, thanks for catching that. I missed that little tidbit.

Oh, that call forwarding looks nice. Reception in my house is such that moving around will bring in enough of a signal to get SMS, and I'm already used to that being spotty anyway. Plus, spotty SMS will probably entice me to just pick up the house phone and call them back. xD

Keep in mind that you will get billed for minutes used by Ting during call forwarding from the cell phone to your VOIP account, but otherwise, should be fine.

GSM would be an ideal carrier network (excluding the slim possibility of better reception) because of the desire to use a Nexus and/or specifically have a computer replacement device. You don't have to hunt down a CDMA model of the Galaxy Nexus or hack at the thing and spoof an ESN to get it working on whatever CDMA MVNO you choose to go with and deal with any potential baseband funkiness. You just drop in the GSM card, configure your APN and you're done. Unfortunately, prepaid GSM MVNO options (especially where data is required) can be expensive due to the necessity of dealing with the Devil. That said, the Galaxy SII is getting an ICS update, but that might not be quite as appealing an idea due to your desire to get guaranteed OS upgrades for a while with a flagship Google device. However, even those devices will eventually stop getting official upgrades.

Unfortunately as you can now likely see, affordable low-end prepaid (Sprint-based CDMA MVNOs) and high-end handsets (typically GSM) tend to be pretty mutually exclusive things. CDMA handset portability in this nation is a fuggin' nightmare and we're one of the last remaining handset locked CDMA markets in the world, so the phone manufacturers don't really give a crap about making decent CDMA handsets. The only handset alternative gives us a network duopoly with AT&T running roughshod on setting access pricing.

Cosmie? Meet your two new friends: rock and hard place. Sorry, chum.

I hadn't even thought of it from that perspective. After reading this post, I assumed it was purely from the ease-of-use of SIM cards.

I actually took a look at the SII, and it's potentially what I'll go with. It just frustrates me, because, while it's going to get ICS soon, the Galaxy Nexus is already receiving Jelly Bean. And the gap will just continue to grow. As for Google devices even being dropped sooner or later, that's true; but by being a vanilla device, it means that it's going to unofficially get updates quickly and with little trouble, even after Google stops providing them.

And the Sprint version of the phone can actually be had on Amazon for a hefty sum, from Sam's Club for roughly the same price as the SII from Ting, and on eBay refurbished or new for even cheaper. The eBay option seems the most lucrative, since I'm going to have to also buy a donor phone from Ting. Although their main donor phone is no longer being sold, so I may have to go with the SII anyway and this is moot.

As for spoofing the Nexus, it's apparently fairly straightforward. Although necessitating the spoofing in the first place is really frustrating, and is something that should not be necessary.

Cosmie? Meet your two new friends: rock and hard place. Sorry, chum.

:D

[grantmeaname]

Google Fiber is launching in Kansas City. Of most interest to Mustachians will be the $300 installation fee for at least 7 years of guaranteed free 5Mbps service. At most, you'll be paying $3.57 a month for plenty of speed (well, if you don't move, that is).

I do hope this catches on and spreads my way...

[Daley]

Google Fiber is launching in Kansas City. Of most interest to Mustachians will be the $300 installation fee for at least 7 years of guaranteed free 5Mbps service. At most, you'll be paying $3.57 a month for plenty of speed (well, if you don't move, that is).

I do hope this catches on and spreads my way...

I noticed that yesterday, and it is very reasonably priced, but I expect nothing less from a company that makes their money from online advertising. $3.57 a month for seven year of 5Mbps fiber service, and all you have to do is let Google give you a privacy colonoscopy and sniff and route every last bit of data you use through their servers! Reminds me a lot of their Screenwise Program.

Some people won't mind, others won't even put enough thought into the offer to realize what the trade-off is, but one should always read the fine print when going into these things.

Personally, I'm not too crazy about the idea for myself and it raises the question, "What price is free?" ...but I'm also a bit of a privacy advocate with certain things and won't give Google the keys to the entire kingdom. (I use AdBlock Plus, NoScript and Ghosterly to block Google domains on most websites, search using DuckDuckGo, utilize OpenDNS, don't use the Gmail account for serious communications, refuse to set up a Google Checkout account, and barely use Google Voice anymore and looking to bail entirely there.) However, I do welcome the added competition to the marketplace and hope that it helps drive down the overinflated cost of internet in this country as well as helps reverse some of the bandwidth caps as they continue to roll out into other markets.

[TLV]

Our phone-changing saga is coming to a close this week when my wife's phone contract ends.

The past two years:
Unsubsidized feature phone (me) - $30
Verizon's cheapest pre-paid plan (me) - $110/year
Indiviual talk plan with Verizon + 250 texts - Discount through employer (wife) - $45/mo.
Contract-subsidized feature phone (wife) - $10
Total - $1340

The next two years:
2 P-Tel intercepts + first 6 months via special offer - $120
2 Micro sd cards - $16
Remaining 18 months minimum prepaid - $6.66/mo
Estimated cost over minimum - $1.5/mo.
VOIPo for 2 years - $165
Cordless handsets - Free! (freecycle.org)
Total - ~$450

That's about a 2/3s reduction in cost, plus we have shiny pink toys to play with and much better call quality at home. Thanks IP Daley!

I rooted the 2nd Intercept before activating it (so we'd still have the $50 card if it bricked) following the guide, and it blows the non-rooted one out of the water in battery life and perceived performance - It's still going 40 hours after unplugging it for the initial charge, despite considerable use, and rarely visibly lags, while the other dies after 8-16 hours depending on use, and lags in almost every app. As soon as the 2nd SD card arrives in the mail I'm going to take the risk and root the other one as well.

[Will]

Finally in this list, there's Republic Wireless... the little provider that could. Their gimmick is $20 a month unlimited usage with WiFi and Sprint network coverage. Theoretically, it's a great idea. A pre-configured Android phone that defaults to WiFi for calling and seamlessly integrates cell service and VoIP? Fantastic! Unfortunately, execution's left a lot to be desired. Long term, I want to see these guys succeed, but until then I recommend sticking with more worn paths.

I've been working my way through the blog posts and got to the cell phone post. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/22/eliminate-ridiculous-text-messaging-fees-with-google-voice/

RW was mentioned there, so I came to the forums to see if there was anything here.  Not much outside of this post.  Anything change since then, or are things still kind of sketchy with Republic's execution? 

[Daley]

Finally in this list, there's Republic Wireless... the little provider that could. Their gimmick is $20 a month unlimited usage with WiFi and Sprint network coverage. Theoretically, it's a great idea. A pre-configured Android phone that defaults to WiFi for calling and seamlessly integrates cell service and VoIP? Fantastic! Unfortunately, execution's left a lot to be desired. Long term, I want to see these guys succeed, but until then I recommend sticking with more worn paths.

I've been working my way through the blog posts and got to the cell phone post. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/22/eliminate-ridiculous-text-messaging-fees-with-google-voice/

RW was mentioned there, so I came to the forums to see if there was anything here.  Not much outside of this post.  Anything change since then, or are things still kind of sketchy with Republic's execution?

Basically, all Republic is doing is providing a SIP account with SMS support and fallback Sprint CDMA coverage all tied up nicely through a unified interface, and custom SMS and SIP clients with a likely spoofed CID on the cell to hide the multiple numbers from your contacts when calling. This isn't to say that what they're providing for the money and hassle of configuration isn't worth it, I'm just pointing out what they're doing so you can better understand the weaknesses of the setup.

As for those weaknesses, they have finally gone truly "unlimited" so long as you keep cell usage low and fall within their CUI guidelines, but it doesn't fix the fundamental problem of hand-off. You can either make/receive cell calls or WiFi calls, you can't transition between. Their work-around on this is an auto-callback with dropped WiFi calls. Keep in mind too that Republic's price structure is specifically designed around you basically using this phone most of the time on a WiFi network. Call quality can be rough at times. Also, you have to pay for support.

With a little technical savvy, a Ting account with a decent WiFi Android smartphone that can handle CSipSimple, a Google Voice account, and a VoIP provider like VOIPo, you too can actually recreate for the most part the Republic Wireless experience for about the same as what they want to charge.

Here's the basic structure to pull it off (untried personally configured on whole, but should work):

1) Set up a decent Ting Android smartphone with WiFi. (Ting is necessary if you want a singular unified voice mailbox.)
2) Set up a cheap VoIP provider and configure all calls when a VoIP device is offline to forward to your Platinumtel number and disable voicemail. (This is partly necessary to prevent "double ringing" with incoming calls while on WiFi with free GV VoIP solutions.)
3) Set up a Google Voice account with a new number and associate your VoIP and cell numbers with it, but only ring the VoIP number. (This is partly necessary to prevent "double ringing" with incoming calls while on WiFi.) Then set up your cell phone to forward to Google Voice for voicemail.
4) Install CSipSimple and set to only receive calls/go online when in range of an accessible WiFi network, and auto-answer on calls from Google Voice.
5) Install Google Voice to integrate SMS messaging with the phone and set GV as the default SMS client.
6) Install Voice+ and set to use your VoIP number to connect for all outgoing calls with GV, and set all outgoing calls to be dialed by Voice+.
7) Install an app that does auto-call answering for specific numbers and set to pick-up automatically for your GV number. (Cannot recommend an application for this, but know they exist.)
8) Only give people your Google Voice number.

This should give you single number point of contact for calls and SMS, VoIP call handling for all incoming and outgoing calls on WiFi, and forwarding to your cell number for all calls made while off WiFi. It's a little messy to set up and the UI wouldn't be quite as polished as Republic's, but you could easily get by spending on average about the same as them. It should behave about equally transparent once set up, too. Roughly the same call quality and caveats would also be experienced. Incoming calls received either on cellular or WiFi could even be switched between networks using Google Voice's "4" key call transfer, which is one up on Republic's setup where it auto-redials dropped calls. Of course, you know my feelings on Google Voice.

You could switch the Ting phone out with Platinumtel and come in with a lower monthly price than Republic, but you couldn't do call forwarding for the voicemail, which means you'd basically have two voice mailboxes to contend with if you turned your phone off/no reception. You could also save the VoIP account costs by utilizing a PBXes account set up through Sipdroid or a Sipgate account or whatnot, but then there's the double ring issue where both the cell phone and SIP account will ring on incoming calls. This can be worked around (sort of) with something like Google Voice Locations, but just complicates things further from a software usage perspective IMHO. This setup would be a bit easier and could avoid Google Voice entirely if I knew of a good US based VoIP provider that also provided cheap/free SMS support with monthly packages (know a couple Canadian outfits), but that's on a short list for research in the future. You could also take out the entire cellular carrier factor and configure similar with a WiFi Android handset or an Archos tablet running Android. There's likely a handful of variants on execution as well, but there you have it.

UPDATE 05/31/13: VOIPo provides SMS services, now. You can forgo even dragging Google Voice into the mess if you don't mind using e-mail as your texting interface. Google Voice is still the better and more seamless option on Android phones, however. Also, more modern builds of Android provide built-in SIP account support now. It's a sloppy and imperfect system, and Republic's refined their configuration a little more, but the general idea still stands.

UPDATE #2 05/31/13: As it's been a while since I visited the topic, and since Mr. Everyday Dollar recently did a review... if you're comfortable using a service like Talkatone (third party storing your Google credentials), the setup can be done even simpler using it and AutoAP these days. He used Ting, but this can effectively be used with any Android phone on any MVNO carrier to keep costs lower. This just shows that anybody can replicate the Republic Wireless experience for less if you just know how it works.

UPDATE #3 08/08/13: Rereading this original post, I realized that I was wrongly under the impression that Republic was putting cellular voice into the mix instead of being a 100% VoIP data solution. Silly me. If it's 100% VoIP, the implementation is considerably simpler on your own, but with greater failure points. The method I outlined in this post actually has fallbacks for usage (as does Mr. Everyday Dollar's method) if data throughput and latency is insufficient for VoIP service... which technically makes it a superior solution to Republic for the same quirkiness and money or less. Also, have a link detailing why this redundancy is good to have.

Republic's also added a $30/month plan for the same service with a more reasonable buy-in cost for the device. The only problem with this is, you can already get "unlimited" talk and text for $30 a month without any of the shortcomings, caveats, or restrictive terms of service and limitations from GSM MVNOs Airvoice and GoSmart Mobile, allowing you to pick whatever phone suits you best (most of which will likely be at the same price or cheaper than Republic's and won't leave you carrier locked with the hardware)... and an extra $5 a month adds a chunk of data onto that service as well. T-Mobile's prepaid division also has a $30/month plan with 1500 minutes talk or text and 30MB of data, which will probably cover most people's usage if they do the real math on their "unlimited" usage; or $30/month service with 100 minutes, unlimited text and 5GB of unthrottled data. If you must do the full VoIP experience, you can still do so at the same price point as Republic with the same mentioned GV setup on any pentaband Android smartphone of your choosing, and still get that voice service fallback as well as a giant wad of data that would likely get you booted from Republic for using in a month.

Let me also note that there are alternatives to Republic now on this setup. FreedomPop and TextNow. TextNow at least has the decency to not hide claims of "unlimited service" behind a surprisingly twee yet draconian terms of service on real wireless data usage, and has reasonable price points for what's provided. Still doesn't make these solutions all that much more cost effective over DIY or just bringing back a proper home phone line into the mix, but there you go.

UPDATE #4 09/11/13: I don't know if the person in question had read this post and took me literally wanting to do the T-Mobile $30 5GB prepaid + Google Voice service deal mentioned on 08/08 or not, but let me reiterate that it's a pretty lousy idea to implement and that there's better options for service for the price. If you're already willing to spend $30/month, and you actually need both an excess of 250MB of high speed data and more than about 500 minutes of airtime a month with a GSM provider, is it really a bank breaking stretch to just spend an extra $10-15 a month to pay for what you actually need? Especially if the data service quality proves to be so terrible in your area that you find yourself spending an extra $10 a month on proprietary VoIP services just to make it work, thereby proving my point that VoIP over wireless is a bad idea? Is it even worth sticking with GSM MVNOs at this point when you can have those same usage numbers on the CDMA end (which you'd be using with Republic anyway) for around $30-40 a month via Page Plus or Ting?

Don't be cheap, be frugal and use the right tool for the job.

[TLV]

Not to mention they're still limiting access. I signed up for a beta wave in April and got in wave L - they finally opened it to wave B just last week. (Not that I intend to go with them now - the VOIPo + PTel combo meets our needs better and is cheaper to boot.)

[Z]

There's an fantastic amount of detail on this thread, excellent and up to date advice. A forum newbie's thoughts:

• Apps such as Groove IP can eliminate the need to pay for a separate SIP service.  If wifi is widely available, it's definitely worth considering whether a carrier is needed at all (emergency calls are always supported).  A fair amount of services are available offline as well, gps navigation for instance.
  
  
• It's often possible to find fantastic deals on mid-range cracked screen android phones on ebay or craigslist.  Yes, they may look a little beat up, but often work just fine. 
  
  
• If your phone is higher end, it's worth checking to see if it supports hdmi/mhl out and a bluetooth HID keyboard/mouse. For users who spend all their time in the browser, if the user agent is switched to desktop there's not a huge need for a separate computer.
  

[Daley]

There's an fantastic amount of detail on this thread, excellent and up to date advice. A forum newbie's thoughts:

• Apps such as Groove IP can eliminate the need to pay for a separate SIP service.  If wifi is widely available, it's definitely worth considering whether a carrier is needed at all (emergency calls are always supported).  A fair amount of services are available offline as well, gps navigation for instance.

Thanks for contributing, Z!

A brief thought on Groove IP: It's not worth the five bux. You can do the exact same thing with Sipdroid for free, and it even auto-configures a PBXes account for your Google Voice number. Of course, it doesn't change the fact that Google Voice stinks as a VoIP provider in overall quality, and of course raises the always present "what price free?" question I tend to approach things with.

Unrelated to the previous topic but a follow-up to your comment on going completely mobile for computing: Dolphin HD is an excellent browser for Android. The only rub there is data costs as most people seem to disconnect the need for cheaper wired home internet over wireless and suddenly you're spending over $100 a month again for your tiny little data tracker.

[Z]

I use sipdroid/PBXes myself because of speex support, and absolutely agree that call quality on pcma/pcmu (used by google voice/groove IP) can suffer due to packet loss.  The only drawback with PBXes is a 1 hour per call limit and 2000 minutes/month.  Other options like groove IP lite, talkatone, etc are free options that work "out of the box" - it's much easier to download an app onto a friend's phone than to explain trunking.  suum cuique :)

[Daley]

I use sipdroid/PBXes myself because of speex support, and absolutely agree that call quality on pcma/pcmu (used by google voice/groove IP) can suffer due to packet loss.  The only drawback with PBXes is a 1 hour per call limit and 2000 minutes/month.  Other options like groove IP lite, talkatone, etc are free options that work "out of the box" - it's much easier to download an app onto a friend's phone than to explain trunking.  suum cuique :)

Well, my problems go a bit deeper than that with Google Voice in that I feel the quality of the service provided at any price is sub-par. Doesn't matter what codec and VoIP provider you use on the back end, the quality of Google's service just stinks out loud and has been getting worse the past year or so. I've been using it since the GrandCentral days, and the only thing that has kept me from porting the numbers out here lately has been bigger fish issues and a desire to not give Google a real credit card number. As such, I'd like to think I know what I speak of.

You are correct that configuring a VoIP app for neophytes can be challenging, but I'm also espousing a bit of a roll-up-your-sleeves-and-get-your-hands-dirty approach with technology here where appropriate. Where it isn't, I'm pushing for simplification and de-emphasizing the usage of certain tools to simplify one's life.

I firmly believe that you get what you pay for with services, which is why I always recommend paying for a real VoIP provider instead of hinging your hopes of unlimited free long distance on a company who's primary income stream is data mining. Is it really much of a savings when you can pay VOIPo less than $7 a month to get over 83 hours of talk time?

Finally, I'll admit there's a side to my cell phone usage recommendations in regard to VoIP usage with smartphones that I've never brought up before: radiation. No, it's not ionizing, but it does heat up the brain during prolonged exposure, and data usage on cell phones broadcast at far higher strengths than they're tested for for safety with voice services. We still don't know long term effects of this stuff and there's enough conflicting data to at least justify prudence.

See? Methods to my madness. ;)

[Daley]

Finally updated the prepaid cellphone guide and added Ting and Airvoice to the list like I've been meaning to do for the past few months here. Sorry for the delay, guys.

[PaulM12345]

I don't want to start another, "What cell phone plan should I use" thread so I'm posting here...

I am planning to make the switch from ATT gophone (pay per minute) to an MVNO as everyone recommends. I use about 400 minutes / month and about 400 texts max. My wife uses about 5-600 per month of voice and about 600 texts. We don't do data on our phones as of yet and don't really want to get hooked on that.

I'm deciding between Ting and H20:

Ting: Seems like a better option cost wise - they offer a monthly plan of 2000 minutes and 2000 texts, no data. for two phones, that's $49! Which is pretty nice. We'd have to buy new phones but they'd pay for themselves very quickly. My only concern is that they are relatively new and on their forum several people complain about bad signals. Does anyone here have experience with Ting?

H20: I'm looking at the H20 $25 per month plan for me (basically about 500 texts, 500 minutes) and the $40/ month unlimited for my wife, making $65/mo for the household. I'm hoping in the future I can wean her onto the $25 plan but we'll see... :) We'd be saving about $35/mo (or $50/mo if we both end up on the cheaper plan), and we have ATT phones so should be able to use them.

So I think we'll go with Ting, but I wanted to know if you have any thoughts. If this works out we'll be saving $600/year which is just awesome! Thanks for this great thread of advice.

[Daley]

I don't want to start another, "What cell phone plan should I use" thread so I'm posting here...

I am planning to make the switch from ATT gophone (pay per minute) to an MVNO as everyone recommends. I use about 400 minutes / month and about 400 texts max. My wife uses about 5-600 per month of voice and about 600 texts. We don't do data on our phones as of yet and don't really want to get hooked on that.

I'm deciding between Ting and H20:

Ting: Seems like a better option cost wise - they offer a monthly plan of 2000 minutes and 2000 texts, no data. for two phones, that's $49! Which is pretty nice. We'd have to buy new phones but they'd pay for themselves very quickly. My only concern is that they are relatively new and on their forum several people complain about bad signals. Does anyone here have experience with Ting?

H20: I'm looking at the H20 $25 per month plan for me (basically about 500 texts, 500 minutes) and the $40/ month unlimited for my wife, making $65/mo for the household. I'm hoping in the future I can wean her onto the $25 plan but we'll see... :) We'd be saving about $35/mo (or $50/mo if we both end up on the cheaper plan), and we have ATT phones so should be able to use them.

So I think we'll go with Ting, but I wanted to know if you have any thoughts. If this works out we'll be saving $600/year which is just awesome! Thanks for this great thread of advice.

Looks like neither of you use or want to use data.

For your wife's phone, Airvoice's $35 "unlimited" talk and text would be overkill, and you'd get better customer support and save $5 over H2O. Your usage patterns, H2O's $25 plan should be plenty. That'd set you at $60 a month without replacing your phones. I'd still recommend alternative messaging like Kik and e-mail to SMS to keep costs lower, but that requires data and phones that support it. I'd also recommend a VoIP home phone line and restricting most of your calls to when you're home, that'll eliminate a lot as well.

As for Ting, per month they would be cheaper if you didn't modify your usage any, but handset buy-in is going to evaporate a fair bit of that savings. Even with the entry-level phones, you'd be looking at a 14-16 month ROI before breaking even. It's not a terrible turn around time, but that's a long time on a cheap, terrible handset. As for call quality, it shouldn't be any different than any other Sprint MVNO, same network, and they do Verizon roaming. Most likely, the people complaining the loudest are people who are just in bad CDMA coverage zones, which includes a fair bit of rural customers. There literally shouldn't be any quality difference beyond handsets with any other postpaid Sprint user with the exception of no US Cellular or Leap roaming. Don't let the newness scare you, though, Ting is owned by Tucows.

[PaulM12345]

Yes, we don't use data and don't particularly feel like getting hooked on it, although part of me wants to at least have the option for it in the future, especially for my hope business purposes.

I didn't think of Airvoice because I missed that they were an ATT MVNO. That would put us at $60, versus $49 for Ting. So $11 per month; for Ting I was looking at old-school blackberry-style Kyocera Brio https://ting.com/devices/Kyocera-Brio for $70. But we'd rather keep our phones, which are nothing special but probably won't be worse than the Brio, and who knows, in a year we may want to upgrade to a smartphone (or two).

I'd still recommend alternative messaging like Kik and e-mail to SMS to keep costs lower, but that requires data and phones that support it. I'd also recommend a VoIP home phone line and restricting most of your calls to when you're home, that'll eliminate a lot as well.

Yes, these are definitely on my to-do list, but lower down - right now, saving an extra $40-50 / month from our current plan is the main priority. I really appreciate all your advice in this thread, and I see future savings on the horizon as I tackle each thing.