Is Mr. Money Mustache Ruining Your Marriage?

[Basenji]

I now watch movies by myself. He lays beside me with one eye on the screen and one eye on his computer.

Actual quote from my husband: "It's time to put the Mustache Man away, so we can watch a movie."

Hee! My husband calls MMM "Mr. Cookie Monster". *shrug*

We just bought an expensive house, and my wife said "Is Mr. Money Mustache mad at you?"

Lol.  When tempted to spend we sometimes say, "WWMMMD?"

[Zikoris]

The woman's letter irritated me more than I expected it to. It's one thing to have disagreements with your spouse over spending, but something entirely different to bring gender into it and absolve yourself of responsibility for your choices by saying "Well, I'm a woman!".

I guess it just reminds me of one too many conversations I've had with feminists about how women are supposedly so disadvantaged and oppressed and "forced" to do things - sacrifice career for kids, go into nursing rather than engineering, spend a fortune on makeup and hair, you name it. As a big believer in personal responsibility and individual agency, and a woman who does whatever the hell I want, that crap pisses me off more than anything.

[Spartana]

The woman's letter irritated me more than I expected it to. It's one thing to have disagreements with your spouse over spending, but something entirely different to bring gender into it and absolve yourself of responsibility for your choices by saying "Well, I'm a woman!".

I guess it just reminds me of one too many conversations I've had with feminists about how women are supposedly so disadvantaged and oppressed and "forced" to do things - sacrifice career for kids, go into nursing rather than engineering, spend a fortune on makeup and hair, you name it. As a big believer in personal responsibility and individual agency, and a woman who does whatever the hell I want, that crap pisses me off more than anything.

I just read the e-mail and totally agree. She needs to take off the complainy pants and pull on the big girl pants and take charge of her situation rather then blame the hubs, MMM, her gender, or society in general. If you want a couch, sit hubby down (on the plastic monstrosity :-)!), tell him you are buying a couch because you need one, and come up with a reasonable budget for one - together. If he's not onboard then go buy the couch yourself. She is not powerless in the relationship, hubs can not control her financially (or her him) and they need to find the middle ground.  It's a marriage not a dictatorship where he calls all the shots and all she gets to do is whine about it.  And vise-versa. 

ETA: while this woman is about as far from me in terms of the things she wants in life as anyone on the planet, she still has an equal voice in her relationship and hubby needs to respect that (no matter how unmustachian it is) and not try to control her or treat her "wants" as minor irritations to be dismissed out of hand.

[MsRichLife]

As a single man I really have no dog in this fight, but I do know I have never gotten a good reaction from an unattached  female for trying to optimize myself financially.  I notice it does seem to be already married women who are positive and supportive of trying to be financially responsible.

I just wanted to say that when I was a single lady, there is no way I would have chosen a man who wasn't somewhat financially savvy. I was already frugal and had amassed decent wealth for my age. I did not want to hook up with a spendthrift whose values were so clearly misaligned to mine.

I hope you do find a lady who appreciates those qualities in you. I'm sure she's out there.

[Spartana]

As a single man I really have no dog in this fight, but I do know I have never gotten a good reaction from an unattached  female for trying to optimize myself financially.  I notice it does seem to be already married women who are positive and supportive of trying to be financially responsible.

I just wanted to say that when I was a single lady, there is no way I would have chosen a man who wasn't somewhat financially savvy. I was already frugal and had amassed decent wealth for my age. I did not want to hook up with a spendthrift whose values were so clearly misaligned to mine.

I hope you do find a lady who appreciates those qualities in you. I'm sure she's out there.

Me too. I actually have had problems meeting men who share my financial/lifestyle values so it's not just the single guys out there. Many men seem to feel the need to spend and spend and spend and that can be a huge turn off for women like me.

[Philociraptor]

This article was massively entertaining because I recently discovered MMM and the wife is not liking my thoughts of downgrading my car or giving us each an allowance each month.

[LalsConstant]

As a single man I really have no dog in this fight, but I do know I have never gotten a good reaction from an unattached  female for trying to optimize myself financially.  I notice it does seem to be already married women who are positive and supportive of trying to be financially responsible.

I just wanted to say that when I was a single lady, there is no way I would have chosen a man who wasn't somewhat financially savvy. I was already frugal and had amassed decent wealth for my age. I did not want to hook up with a spendthrift whose values were so clearly misaligned to mine.

I hope you do find a lady who appreciates those qualities in you. I'm sure she's out there.

Me too. I actually have had problems meeting men who share my financial/lifestyle values so it's not just the single guys out there. Many men seem to feel the need to spend and spend and spend and that can be a huge turn off for women like me.

I just wanted to say I appreciate such nice comments, but more than that the realization of the spirit in which that off handed remark was conveyed.  I was somewhat hesitant to bring it up because I am so used to, well, certain kinds of overreaction.

This is an interesting little side topic and perhaps not so offensive to others as I thought, I think it belongs in a new thread in one of the other sections.  I'm on it!

[Johnny Aloha]

This is the first time I've busted out laughing upon loading the MMM homepage.  The image directly below the "Is Mr. Money Mustache ruining your marriage?" heading was of a 1991-1996 Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice wagon WHICH IS A CAR I'M LOOKING AT BUYING SOON.  It's for a specific purpose and will have fairly few miles put on it (second car, our primary car is a '99 3-cyliner Metro with 154,000 miles that gets about 47MPG average city/highway) because obviously a gigantic behemoth like that is extremely silly for standard suburban travel.  It's a gas guzzler at 25MPG on the highway, but it's pretty great in terms of massive internal cargo space and barrier to entry (can find a nice one for under two grand).  I do all my own work on cars, so it makes no sense to pay the premium to get anything from this century.

I was laughing hard at this because it's so great!

[ketchup]

This is the first time I've busted out laughing upon loading the MMM homepage.  The image directly below the "Is Mr. Money Mustache ruining your marriage?" heading was of a 1991-1996 Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice wagon WHICH IS A CAR I'M LOOKING AT BUYING SOON.  It's for a specific purpose and will have fairly few miles put on it (second car, our primary car is a '99 3-cyliner Metro with 154,000 miles that gets about 47MPG average city/highway) because obviously a gigantic behemoth like that is extremely silly for standard suburban travel.  It's a gas guzzler at 25MPG on the highway, but it's pretty great in terms of massive internal cargo space and barrier to entry (can find a nice one for under two grand).  I do all my own work on cars, so it makes no sense to pay the premium to get anything from this century.

I was laughing hard at this because it's so great!

Finally picked one up last Wednesday night!  It's a '92, and it was $700!



(You can see it's gigantic size compared to my little red Metro in that last photo.)

[sheepstache]

Aw, yiss, he got the wood paneling.

[4alpacas]

This is the first time I've busted out laughing upon loading the MMM homepage.  The image directly below the "Is Mr. Money Mustache ruining your marriage?" heading was of a 1991-1996 Buick Roadmaster/Chevy Caprice wagon WHICH IS A CAR I'M LOOKING AT BUYING SOON.  It's for a specific purpose and will have fairly few miles put on it (second car, our primary car is a '99 3-cyliner Metro with 154,000 miles that gets about 47MPG average city/highway) because obviously a gigantic behemoth like that is extremely silly for standard suburban travel.  It's a gas guzzler at 25MPG on the highway, but it's pretty great in terms of massive internal cargo space and barrier to entry (can find a nice one for under two grand).  I do all my own work on cars, so it makes no sense to pay the premium to get anything from this century.

I was laughing hard at this because it's so great!

Finally picked one up last Wednesday night!  It's a '92, and it was $700!



(You can see it's gigantic size compared to my little red Metro in that last photo.)

Wow!  That is a car!  My best friend drove something similar through high school.  Does your wagon have the third row of backward seats?

[ketchup]

It does have the rear-facing third row.  Seats eight total.  Feels unqualified to be driven if containing less than five people (or a comparable amount of cargo).  Super comfortable seats.  It's like an American living room on wheels.

[dragoncar]

It does have the rear-facing third row.  Seats eight total.  Feels unqualified to be driven if containing less than five people (or a comparable amount of cargo).  Super comfortable seats.  It's like an American living room on wheels.

I call back-back!

[ProfWinkie]

I must admit this whole thing seems a test of reason

[Cheddar Stacker]

Part 2 was posted yesterday and I just read it. Much less complainypants and over the top, much more psychological and strategic discussion about why these differences exist and how to fix them. It's worth a read IMO.

Whether or not the emails were real (I think they were) it's another reminder to create a team approach to this rather than be a dictator.

[soccerluvof4]

I get an email forwarded from my DW about an hour ago saying "this was good" so its helping mine!!

[metak8]

Slide 2 in the PPT would be even better if the categories were sorted in descending order, so the max is at the top and the min is at the bottom. A vertical bar chart could emphasize the categories instead of a pie chart - so you can literally see how things stack up.

[Cheddar Stacker]

Slide 2 in the PPT would be even better if the categories were sorted in descending order, so the max is at the top and the min is at the bottom. A vertical bar chart could emphasize the categories instead of a pie chart - so you can literally see how things stack up.

I didn't much care for the power point. I'm glad it did some good in their household, but I was a bit confused by it since it jumped around so much.

[DoubleDown]

I don't get how so many are doubting the veracity of the woman in the story. What's not to believe? She represents mainstream America and regular old consumerism, and not even in an extreme way. I'll bet most women in the USA, at least in the same socioeconomic class, would agree with her wholeheartedly. That letter writer could have been my own wife! (it is not, but easily could have been). In fact, I showed her the article because I thought the letter writer was so amusing, and my wife was in complete solidarity with her!

Maybe some of us MMM people are too sheltered and have forgotten what the rest of the "real world" is like out there!

[steveo]

My only though while reading that post was "Thank god she's not my wife."

That woman is a boat anchor around her husband's neck.  She will either drown them both, or get cut loose. 

Or she could get on board, but that seems unlikely.  When two people have such drastically different philosophies on life, I don't see any easy way to reconcile enough to form a happy marriage.  If they stay together, at least one of them will always be miserable.  Probably both.

I love this post. Pure gold.

To be fair to her I don't think she is a really big spender. She comes across to me as having pretty standard beliefs. I don't view MMM as being extreme however I think that she probably doesn't want to optimize much at all.

[steveo]

In the case of the lady who wrote in, I think the primary problem is the husband dove in headfirst

In the case of the lady who wrote in, I think the primary problem is that she's a consumerist sucker.  A mark, a fool, a patsy, a chump.  She's a brainwashed automaton devoid of any real life, and she will kill her husband just as surely as she has already killed herself.

I think you take this too far. My mum is a consumerist sucker but she has a great life and my parents are completely fine. My mum just has more money than sense and dad isn't going to spend it and to be fair neither is she.

My mum bought a new iPhone the other day and is going on an overseas holiday. Her reasoning is that she needed the iPhone because she was going on a holiday.  She though already had a phone so it makes absolutely no sense.

My parents though worked for years and mum is still working. Some people just think that is what you do. Dad actually retired a little earlier because he was sacked but sometimes he tells me he should have worked for longer.

They just have so much money which they have earned I figure they can do whatever it is they want to do. Its just money and it you have too much I think its cool to spend it on whatever it is that you want.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Seriously, people, how can you read the emails and not think MMM added something (or maybe put a bunch of emails together and called it one person?).  I'm not trying to stir up anything, I don't think there's anything nefarious going on, but I do think the email is BS.  Just the way it is written is inconsistent.  On one hand, she is knowledgeable about the site content, and yet she carrys on about wanting an SUV?  And her husband makes good money, but can't see that spending working hours keeping paying customers in a waiting room will ultimately cost him more money (if people go to someone else).  Or, if he has such a great job that he can read the internet at work, what does he think retirement will give him that he doesn't already have?  And why did the author (or husband) not even comment once?  Surely there aren't that many folks that are young optometrists with Prius driving wives and a blow up couch...  I also gave MMM a pass on when he seemingly shrugged helplessly in answering if he ruined their marriage.  If this is a real problem and the only answer is 'some women just can't be reconciled with' (and his follow on post was similarly unhelpful to 'the masses'), then isn't the conclusion that his site does more harm than good by exacerbating a couple's differences.  They were recocileable if they just recently married, but now the guy is hopelessly fixated on FIRE while the spouse hopes to define a good life that she is also willing to work toward. 
Just my 2 cents, if they're worth that much.

[wepner]

The advice in part 2 is literally the only possible advice when two people disagree about anything. Don't argue like an asshole or try to "force" the other person to change their mind, and show the person the good points of your idea/argument.

If they can't find a compromise between spend all of their money on fancy coffee and giant SUVs and add more tape to the inflatable couch then they shouldn't be together anyway, MMM had nothing to do with it.


As for the first article I read it as her being sarcastic, worst case scenario its a combination of multiple people or an abridged version of a very long email.

[kite]

The exchange reminded me of Guy Lombardo and the lyrics to Enjoy Yourself.   Especially the line, "When you kiss a dollar bill it doesn't kiss you back." 

Admittedly,  I've got a frugal spouse and we're mostly on the same page with spending and saving.   Where we differ is in investment styles and risk tolerance.  One of us has 90% assets in cash and the other is in aggressive,  far more risky investment products.   No amount of insisting by either of us will convince the other and this is just one of those things we each have had to let go.   The guy's wife is telling him she's unhappy,  and he is not listening or doesn't care.  It's been my observation among my peers that the outcome of his kind of indifference costs far more than a couch or an SUV in the long run. 

[partgypsy]

I don't think it's a fake person, but maybe embellished with humorous hyperbole by either the original poster or my MMM himself, as either self-depreceating humor or sarcasm. I would not call myself mustachian. There was a period of time in my life (early 20's to early 30's) I had accidently lived that kind of life without having a name for it (I just thought I was a bohemian : )). But after getting through grad school post doc, and having a regular job for 10 years I live a pretty regular life (buy furniture from stores, things for the house, regular vacations in hotels/motels) I AM interested and curious whether I could go back to living a more Mustachian life, though we have experienced lifestyle inflation (plus dependents) that make it harder than when I was youg. We do know some people who are very bad ass in how they live. But I also know a number of people (including in grad school) who would never live this way, would look upon it with horror and believe unless you HAVE to live that way (unemployed, poor, etc ) why would you LIVE that way?". So while extreme frugality is out there, it is still really not part of mainstream American society so I do believe people would write those things.
My husband and I fight about MMM. I am definitely more into MMM, and when I tell my husband about an article he may respond with he sounds like a d***he, or that guys an a*****e (in jealous jest). However husband is now considering putting on a metal roof on our house and I didn't even realize there was an article about that on MMM!
While my husband used to be as minimal as I was, our standards of living gone up, me with activities for the kids and things for the household (also some personal stuff for me), and him going out to drink or eat out on a regular basis, and also what he buys at the grocery store. I recently brought up I want to retire "early" explaining that meant for me is 61 or 62, and even that I had gotten critiques from him and his mother "why would I want to do that, you'll change your mind, you shouldn't quit early (I'm the primary breadwinner).
It's not that we are terribly mismatched. We do agree on basic things like having a modest house and a paid for single car, but on day to day stuff we still spend a lot of money and disagree on how we should be spending our money. And basically, just people don't want to change or feel like they have to change or give up what it enjoyable to them, that is scary.
I have considered the allowance idea, but we can't agree on what is included in the allowance fund.
He also just doesn't even like talking about money (let alone budgets) and maybe he is more in the mainstream about that than I am.