Should I stay or should I go? New job offer & counteroffer

[bikerdood]

Hey mustachians,

A few days ago I got a great job offer.  To my surprise, my current employer is trying (read: seeing if this is possible - it would be a 50% raise) to match the offer to get me to stay.  Here are the details... let me know what you think.

NEW job
-startup scene (late-stage tho so this is stable)
-I would be learning a lot of new stuff
-commute would be down to .2 miles (5 min walk!) from 7 mi***
-new job would be .7 miles from my mom's who is providing daycare for my about-to-be-born baby
-I get 2 weeks paternity leave right off the bat, no questions asked
-I would be picking up a new gig at the same time as becoming a father

CURRENT job
-super stable - these folks know me, know I'm good, are extremely flexible when it comes to working from home, etc
-I'm not sure I'd be learning that much new MARKETABLE stuff
-current job is right by a training ride (bike) that I do everyday at noon.  Plus they're cool with me taking that 1.5 hr break in the middle of the day.
-mom's place (daycare :) ) would be 7 mi away from current job
-they care enough to counteroffer and the counteroffer (considering 401k match, etc) comes out to being about 4% greater than the startup's offer
-pretty crappy vacation/sick-time
-I would be in a very known/stable situation as I become a new father.


Gut reactions?  Am I missing some variables?  FWIW, I'm 25 w/ 3 years experience.


***this may be moot.  I can't decide.  I love riding bikes.  I commute the 7mi to/fro by bike as it is.

[Neustache]

Check out what the insurance changes/benefits would be, especially with a baby that's about to be born.

My gut says to make the move.  If you are worth 50% more, then why wasn't your current employer paying that much more?  My gut, fwiw, is that eventually your current employer, if they can match it, will start to resent paying you so much more for a job you were doing for much, much less.  I could be wrong, though.  But seriously, check out insurance changes and how that will change your bottom line.  Wouldn't be so much of an issue without a baby on the way, though. 


But good job, man, with getting a great offer and counter offer!

[bikerdood]

Thanks, Neustache! 

I thought the same thing re potential resentment for paying me that much more.  On the other hand I've got a buddy who's been there 7 years and has renegotiated his salary a number of times via this route.  According to bossman tho, this would be the biggest raise they've given out to keep someone.

Good call.  They're both really good companies so off the cuff I'm pretty sure the insurance/benefits are comparable.  I will check though.

Thanks again!

[Thegoblinchief]

Considering how sleep deprived I was with newborns, I'd be tempted to stay with old familiar.

At the same time, a hefty raise and proximity to your daycare is a nice plus.

What's your timeline to FIRE? If it is more than 5 years away, I'd take the new opportunity and learn more skills, even if the counteroffer came through. It's not often you'll get that big of a jump just by switching jobs.

[Neustache]

Oh dang, that's a good point.  What's the time line for the move versus baby coming?  Will you have a couple months to get a handle on the new job before the baby?

[bikerdood]

So... I'm looking to either give notice to the new company or to my current company today lol.

I would begin the new job July 14th.  The baby comes Sept 5th so I'd have a little bit of time.

What's making it tough is the folks at my current job are lobbying hard for me to stay.  They've spoken to upper management to approve matching my current offer (and actually exceeding it by ~4%).  They've said they're committed - my bosses and their bosses - to "finding a way to convince me to stay."

The FIRE timeline is ASAP, on the order of 5 years.  The new gig's advantages are chiefly: (1) ridiculous proximity to my apartment and daycare and (2) new technology / opportunity - I will definitely learn a lot and be even more marketable.  They have the typical startup perks - catered lunches, great benefits (2 weeks paternity leave off the bat), etc.

Old familiar's advantages are that (1) these folks already really really really like me and know me and my work (and they're good people), (2) they're unquestioningly flexible with ad-hoc work from home days, etc etc.  I could probably even come back to old familiar if I didn't like the startup.  I dunno. 

I didn't envision having these first world problems lol.

[ivyhedge]

So... I'm looking to either give notice to the new company or to my current company today lol.

I would begin the new job July 14th.  The baby comes Sept 5th so I'd have a little bit of time.

What's making it tough is the folks at my current job are lobbying hard for me to stay.  They've spoken to upper management to approve matching my current offer (and actually exceeding it by ~4%).  They've said they're committed - my bosses and their bosses - to "finding a way to convince me to stay."

The FIRE timeline is ASAP, on the order of 5 years.  The new gig's advantages are chiefly: (1) ridiculous proximity to my apartment and daycare and (2) new technology / opportunity - I will definitely learn a lot and be even more marketable.  They have the typical startup perks - catered lunches, great benefits (2 weeks paternity leave off the bat), etc.

Old familiar's advantages are that (1) these folks already really really really like me and know me and my work (and they're good people), (2) they're unquestioningly flexible with ad-hoc work from home days, etc etc.  I could probably even come back to old familiar if I didn't like the startup.  I dunno. 

I didn't envision having these first world problems lol.

@biker: An intermediate term result of the lobbying in your favor might be that you'll advance up the list of folks to terminate if ever there is a reason or need to do so. In a previous life I witnessed similar moves on myriad occasions in the DC area in fields ranging from IT to very specialized think tank positions (I was also a part of one). Anecdotal? Sure. But ponder that, of all those who want you to stay, there will be some who feel the package is overly sweet. And they'll remember that.

[lpep]

I tend to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." You have a known quantity vs. an unknown, and startup culture can be weeeeeird.

But if the old job can't guarantee it and you have to give an answer, sounds like the decision's been made for you!

Also, I'm 25 as well and I tend to think the whole "not learning any new marketable skills" is not enough reason to potentially make yourself miserable. But what do I know.

[jpo]

Take the new job, but don't burn any bridges.

With everything in such close proximity your life will be much easier.

[randymarsh]

I think the new job sounds better in basically every way.

[Neustache]

If you do take the new job, be super awesome about leaving.

Create a Best Practices manual for the new gal/guy - leave no stone unturned and teach EVERYTHING you know in that manual
Train the new hire like their success will reflect on you
Leave the company in a way that they will really admire the way you handle it, and you will be on their short list if the new person doesn't work out. 

I love that they are rallying for ya, but I also think that if your employer was really that awesome they would have already been paying you what you are worth to them.  I speak as a daughter of a small business owner, and we pay as much as possible for the good ones because we don't want them to be tempted elsewhere.  So I guess the idea that they could have paid you 50% more but didn't, just rubs me the wrong way.  LOL.  None of our employees could get paid that much more at this point in our business model.   

[brewer12345]

I think I would try really, really hard not to burn bridges, but ultimately I think I would take the new job.  If you stay there will be plenty of resentment in certain quarters at the old shop, whereas if you waltz out the door on good terms you might always be able to come back, no harm, no foul.  Yeah, you will be stretched with the new baby, but learning something new and interesting is well worth the trouble.

[Franklin]

First of all, congrats on the job and child!

I'm going to lean toward staying, only because I was in the same situation and I chose family over career and it worked out.  Life changes so dramatically when a kid arrives, and your priorities change as well.  You'll find yourself craving stability because of the responsibility you now have.  Plus, kids are so damn cute that you can't get enough of them.  I'm afraid that you may miss out on some awesome years because you had to devote your physical and mental hours to a start-up company.  Obviously, only you know if there will be adverse affects from a raise at your current company.  So that is your call.  But career advancement can come from odd directions, and it's not always based on skill.  A young man who portrays confidence and abilities in ALL aspects of life is the one that usually advances.

[bikerdood]

Thanks everyone for all your insightful replies.

After some more deliberation, I'd say the only thing standing between me and accepting the new position is giving my current employer some time to express themselves (they want to meet today).

I'm young and only 3 years into the working world.  Changing jobs is going to teach me a lot more and make me a lot more marketable for future positions than if I were to stay.  The new job is supremely located which will free a lot of time up for everything - family, hobbies, etc.  Moreover, I know my current employer takes people back early and often - there are many here who left for a couple years then came back to contribute with new insights and experience.

So.  At the end of the day, the greater risk is to stay.  Thanks again all for taking the time to read, consider, and reply.

[eil]

I would be very leery of ever accepting a counter-offer, no matter how good it seems on the surface. Most companies, even the ones run by those with good intentions, will no longer view you as a "loyal" employee. They may even make you feel like you owe them something. This, coupled with your increased salary will make you stand out when the company's profits start to slide and talk of lay-offs start happening.

If they really do value you, and the company that you're about to join didn't make you sign a non-compete or have a no-moonlighting policy, see if you can arrange to do part-time consulting for them. It will bring in extra money and the bridge will stay intact.

[Numbers Man]

Thanks everyone for all your insightful replies.

After some more deliberation, I'd say the only thing standing between me and accepting the new position is giving my current employer some time to express themselves (they want to meet today).

I'm young and only 3 years into the working world.  Changing jobs is going to teach me a lot more and make me a lot more marketable for future positions than if I were to stay.  The new job is supremely located which will free a lot of time up for everything - family, hobbies, etc.  Moreover, I know my current employer takes people back early and often - there are many here who left for a couple years then came back to contribute with new insights and experience.

So.  At the end of the day, the greater risk is to stay.  Thanks again all for taking the time to read, consider, and reply.

You nailed it with your reasoning to take the new job.

[cbgg]

Take the new job!  Learning new things will keep life exciting and the short commutes will be amazing.  You can always add in a longer loop if you want to do more riding, but being only a few minutes away from work, daycare etc will be soooooo nice!

[CowboyAndIndian]

Take the new job.

After working for 30 years, I know that after about 3 years, you stop learning in the job.
When you go to to  a new job, the first couple of months are awful since you are forced into learning.

So, taking the new job will expand your knowledge.

[Nords]

After some more deliberation, I'd say the only thing standing between me and accepting the new position is giving my current employer some time to express themselves (they want to meet today).

They sure are taking a long time to cut a check.

I wish I had a link, but I remember a study of employees who'd used a new job offer to negotiate a higher salary at their current job.  The data said that the vast majority of the employees who accepted the higher salary at the current job ended up leaving within a year anyway.  It was as if the negotiation had made them review all the pros/cons of working there in the first place, and the sudden agreement to pay more had left a bad taste in the relationship.

[diesel15]

You didn't really address this anywhere that I saw but why or how did you get another offer to begin with?  My assumption is that you were at least passively if not actively looking to make a move and whatever your motivations to do so were you were validated by this offer. 

In the end I think that the choice is clear to move on.  If this is what you need to do to be competitively compensated at your current employer I can see this exact same scenario playing out again 2-3 years from now.  Be thankful for the experience but don't get emotionally attached to that.  Don't burn any bridges but I would be leary of staying after a situation like this.  I do feel that once you've played this card you've burned it forever with the current employer.  Unless this is your dream company to work for it is best to move forward and take on the new challenge that makes you more marketable to other future employers.

[theconcierge]

I would personally stay for another year or two. A couple of years back I took a  new job, at the interview the manager was cool with my flexible working hours, leaving a little early to pick up my son from day care ETC - totally different story as soon as I started working there

[Lutra]

Given that in just a few months, you'll have a new addition to the family, with new responsibilities (and perhaps less sleep at home), old familiar isn't such a bad deal.  I'd stay until you get acclimated to a new family lifestyle.  You may find yourself being pulled in to many different directions at once, especially if you're expected to learn a lot of new things and take on new responsibility at home.

[chasesfish]

Biker - I would take the new job.  My question is why weren't you this valuable to your current employer on Monday?  The proximity makes this pretty awesome.  Don't burn bridges


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[Franklin]

Biker - I would take the new job.  My question is why weren't you this valuable to your current employer on Monday?  The proximity makes this pretty awesome.  Don't burn bridges

I wouldn't read into that too much.  Most managers are hamstrung by a personnel budget set by someone outside of their department with no clue about your value.  I'll bet if you talked to your manager a year ago and made a good professional case for your internal and market value, he would have fought for you like he is now. 

[chasesfish]

Let us know how it went

[bikerdood]

Hey all,
Thanks for the great advice and taking the time to read this thread.

In the end, I jumped.  What's better, the relationship w my current/old employer is so good they want to keep me on for part time work as I'm available.  So in the end, sticking to my guns re why I wanted a new gig while demonstrating appreciation for the awesome people I've worked seems to have provided the best possible outcome.  I'm excited to take on the challenge of a new gig :)

Thanks all!

Fwiw - my employer wasn't paying accordingly probably because I was actually hired to fill a much more junior roll.  My increased responsibility grew organically so it was right around now that they were going to be using me to my full potential.  But they all respect my decision and wish me well.

[Sofa King]

Stay.

[Neustache]

Just curious....it's been a month - have you started the new job?  If so...what's your first impression?

[bikerdood]

Hey all,

It's been a few months and I can say unequivocally it was the right decision to leave.

I miss the people at my former employer.  But the incredible lifestyle upgrade (5 minute walk commute, really nice company benefits) coupled with the huge amounts of new stuff I'm learning have made this a great move.  Re lifestyle, I sometimes walk home as my 'coffee break,' check in on the family, etc.  Or walk to the grocery store.  Or go ride my bike.  Having a negligible commute has increased my daily free-time by something ridiculous like 15% (let's say before: ~1 hr commute/day, 8 hrs work, 8 hrs sleep... 7 hrs freetime.... now, 0 commute).  A negligible commute has also eased poor spending decisions to buy breakfast and lunch at work.  Don't pack a lunch?  Worst case, walk home and eat.  No need to starve.  Living close to work makes it possible to be much more carefree.  Forgot really really really important document X for presentation Y!?!?!?  Walk home.  Back in 5.

Bottom line.  A transition to a negligible commute by itself is a hugely compelling reason to jump.  Your life changes.  I don't check mint/personal-capital as compulsively waiting for the day of freedom.  Indeed all of sudden I feel pretty free as it is.  Add to that learning new stuff and working for a great company, it becomes a no-brainer.


Do.  Not.  Underestimate.  The power.  Of the 0 commute.

Thanks again for all the opinions provided here when times were tough and decisions were being made.  Much appreciated.

[Thegoblinchief]

Awesome! Glad it's working for you.

[lpep]

Awesome!! And good to know - I'll file this away in Life Lesson Learned By Other People So I Don't Have To. :) Glad it's going so well.

[Beric01]

Other lesson is just to never accept a counteroffer.

They know you're looking and no longer loyal, so the raise offer is just an attempt to get you to stay until they can hire and train your replacement.

[fallstoclimb]

That's awesome.  Interesting to hear that the 0 commute is better even when you bike commute.  Makes me lean more towards teleworking full time -- my bike commute is a bit annoying and takes a while (sidewalk hopping, etc) but at least I get to be on a bike.  Do you feel like you miss at all the regular bike time via your commute or are you biking enough otherwise that it's irrelevant? 

[bikerdood]

@fallstoclimb - that's a great question re 0 commute vs bike commute. 

I'd say this depends but that the bike commute will win in all but a very few very specific circumstances.  I love biking.  Love it love it love it.  I've bike commuted for about 7 years.  I've also raced for ~5.

I commute by bike or skateboard for errands whenever I can.  But as for my bread-and-butter riding, I like using the time I save in bike commuting (stopped at lights, high traffic, etc) for actual group rides (much higher & sustained intensity plus social).  Luckily, I can get in a 2 hr group ride every day at noon.

All goes back to lifestyle designing.  Bike commuting to work is a great way to build-in riding every day.  If you have no interest in group rides (or a different physical activity), then maybe a moderate bike commute beats the 0 commute.  Long story short, mine is a niche situation.  For the general person with no special interest in riding beyond functional get-from-A-to-B and who might find it difficult to plan or has no other interest in physical activity, I would say the moderate bike commute beats teleworking & 0 commute.