LEDs continue to kick ass!

[Simple Abundant Living]

I've bought CFL's for years.  I'm interested in LED's.  How do they do in areas where there is vibration?  For example- on a ceiling fan/light or basement recessed light fixtures- (vibration is from people walking on the floor above).

[dragoncar]

I've bought CFL's for years.  I'm interested in LED's.  How do they do in areas where there is vibration?  For example- on a ceiling fan/light or basement recessed light fixtures- (vibration is from people walking on the floor above).

LEDs should in theory do much better than other solutions in areas of vibration, but of course  that's just theory.

They are more sensitive to high temperatures.

[capital]

Cree has also been a big LED supplier for bike lights for years. Bike lights are generally used in a relatively-unfriendly environment, with a lot of vibration and the like and wide temperature ranges and moisture and the like. I've never had an LED fail, though my lights have broken or been lost for other reasons. Since LEDs are solid-state, they're likely very vibration resistant.

At least in bike lights, the improvements have been dramatic over the past five years, with the emitters emitting ever-increasing light while drawing ever-decreasing power at ever-decreasing prices. I'm sure the same trend will hold true for home lighting. So procrastinating on this purchase may well be in your favor.

[SnackDog]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

[sol]

$10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.

Really?  I could have sworn this very thread started with a discussion of $10 LED bulbs for residential use.

[Spork]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/categories/departments/living_room/20514/

Starting at $5.99...

That right there is a bit of awesome.  Has anyone tried them?

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

[Daley]

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

Not Ikea, but...

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-r40-flood-lights/

[Spork]

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

Not Ikea, but...

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-r40-flood-lights/

I've found a handful of those... and while those are cheaper than I've seen yet... They're still > $20.  I've been using Utilitech CFLs at about $9 each... and that seems pricey (and not great quality) to me still.  Re-trimming the recessed lighting may still be the cheapest solution.  Once there is a lens on it, the actual bulb doesn't matter so much.

[Spork]

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

Not Ikea, but...

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-r40-flood-lights/

I've found a handful of those... and while those are cheaper than I've seen yet... They're still > $20.  I've been using Utilitech CFLs at about $9 each... and that seems pricey (and not great quality) to me still.  Re-trimming the recessed lighting may still be the cheapest solution.  Once there is a lens on it, the actual bulb doesn't matter so much.

Quoting myself here...  I've had enough utilitech failures now that the cost of operating them is > the cost of incandescent.  I'm mostly just following up here to say: Don't buy Utilitech CFLs.

[dragoncar]

Not entirely on topic, but I just picked up one of these for funsies: 



(example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5050-SMD-Non-Waterproof-RGB-5M-300-LED-Strip-24-44-KEY-IR-12V-5A-Power-Supply-/330864612060?pt=US_String_Lights_Fairy_Lights&var=&hash=item4d091152dc)

They sell for like 20 times Bay prices at retails stores.  The multi-color is kinda cheesy but they also have cool or warm white for significantly less.

[BlueMR2]

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

http://www.bulborama.com/cart.php?m=search_results&pageNumber=&catID=&c=&v=&r=&id=&sortBy=PriceHiLo&search=br40&shopByPrice=&viewAll=&customListIds=&venID=

[Spork]

I don't see any BR40 bulbs -- and almost every fixture I have is BR40.  It's even hard to find name brand, reasonably priced CFLs in that size.  I suspect I'm going to have to swap out the fixture trim kit to get something more common.

http://www.bulborama.com/cart.php?m=search_results&pageNumber=&catID=&c=&v=&r=&id=&sortBy=PriceHiLo&search=br40&shopByPrice=&viewAll=&customListIds=&venID=

Wow, and I thought the Home Depot prices were expensive! 

[TheMadRussian]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

I'd say prices are already dropping fast. I'm seeing Cree LED bulbs in packs of 10 and 20 for on Ebay for less than $8/bulb. That's a huge drop from where they were a year ago! I did a quick calculation and at that price my break even point is about 7 months if I do all the lights in my house...and from there on for the next 10+ years, it's just money in my pocket every month! :)

[Spork]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

I'd say prices are already dropping fast. I'm seeing Cree LED bulbs in packs of 10 and 20 for on Ebay for less than $8/bulb. That's a huge drop from where they were a year ago! I did a quick calculation and at that price my break even point is about 7 months if I do all the lights in my house...and from there on for the next 10+ years, it's just money in my pocket every month! :)

I hope you are correct.  But remember those calculations are based on some pretty enormous numbers for lifespan.  I have certainly seen the CFL lifetime estimates can be just plain wrong.  If the LED estimates are similar, break even may be further down the line.  The inexpensive CFs I bought turned out to have a higher lifetime cost than incandescent.

[SnackDog]

If prices are dropping fast on something you expect to last decades, you would be smart to wait until the price drop curve flattens out, even if it takes a couple years and possibly even if it means going without bulbs in some of your lights while you wait!

[Daley]

even if it takes a couple years and possibly even if it means going without bulbs in some of your lights while you wait!

If you can go without those bulbs for an extended period of time, it raises the question, "Do you need that much artificial light in the first place?"

[dragoncar]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

I'd say prices are already dropping fast. I'm seeing Cree LED bulbs in packs of 10 and 20 for on Ebay for less than $8/bulb. That's a huge drop from where they were a year ago! I did a quick calculation and at that price my break even point is about 7 months if I do all the lights in my house...and from there on for the next 10+ years, it's just money in my pocket every month! :)

I hope you are correct.  But remember those calculations are based on some pretty enormous numbers for lifespan.  I have certainly seen the CFL lifetime estimates can be just plain wrong.  If the LED estimates are similar, break even may be further down the line.  The inexpensive CFs I bought turned out to have a higher lifetime cost than incandescent.

Lifespan shouldn't factor into the breakeven calculation unless lifespan is less than the breakeven point (7 months above)

[Spork]

Residential LEDs are overpriced. At current price trends (which are very modest decreases) it could be 2020 until they are priced appropriately to compete with alternatives. $10/bulb is an important psychological barrier for consumers and LEDs are not there yet.  That said, the tipping point could come before 2020 and prices could fall quickly. Stay tuned.

I'd say prices are already dropping fast. I'm seeing Cree LED bulbs in packs of 10 and 20 for on Ebay for less than $8/bulb. That's a huge drop from where they were a year ago! I did a quick calculation and at that price my break even point is about 7 months if I do all the lights in my house...and from there on for the next 10+ years, it's just money in my pocket every month! :)

I hope you are correct.  But remember those calculations are based on some pretty enormous numbers for lifespan.  I have certainly seen the CFL lifetime estimates can be just plain wrong.  If the LED estimates are similar, break even may be further down the line.  The inexpensive CFs I bought turned out to have a higher lifetime cost than incandescent.

Lifespan shouldn't factor into the breakeven calculation unless lifespan is less than the breakeven point (7 months above)

In my case (CF replacement), they cost $10 each and last 6 months.   A decent 130v incandescent costs $5 and lasts 5+ years.

When I've done the math on a 30 year operation cost:
130v incandescent: $414
120v Utilitech CF: $708

On paper, LEDs would drastically cut that op cost... but the Utilitech CFs drastically cut that on paper too.  Reality seems to be a different matter.  (Or at least in my case it is.)  YMMV...  my experiments have very low number of bulbs in the tests.

[Greg]

I'm following this conversation and have a question.  I have a sizable stockpile of CFLs from a few years ago when you could get them for free at the big orange box store.  I'd use the coupon and get a free package of 4 just about every visit, which was often when I was building my home.  Probably enough to last another 5 years or so.

I've got 100w, 60w and 40w equivalents.  I use mostly 60w in most places in our home, but I use 100w in the garage/shop.  About 95% of the lighting locations on out property are CFL.

Given that I don't need to go buy them, are the CFLs a better deal than investing in LEDs?  The LEDs I've looked at at the store use almost as much as the CFLs.  Our electric rate is $0.091414 Per kWh if that matters.

[Cromacster]

I just added 8 Ecosmart LED w/Cree technology to my living room.

They are essentially the Cree CR6, but I guess Ecosmart Packages and sells them now.  Not sure how it all works out.  The lighting is good, no flickering or humming, and they dim nicely.  Although at a very very low dim they have a greenish hue.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/do-it-yourself-forum!/saved-$1000-through-diy-recessed-led-light-fixtures/msg178877/#msg178877

Edit:  If I remember I will keep this post updated on the performance and what not.

[dragoncar]

I'm following this conversation and have a question.  I have a sizable stockpile of CFLs from a few years ago when you could get them for free at the big orange box store.  I'd use the coupon and get a free package of 4 just about every visit, which was often when I was building my home.  Probably enough to last another 5 years or so.

I've got 100w, 60w and 40w equivalents.  I use mostly 60w in most places in our home, but I use 100w in the garage/shop.  About 95% of the lighting locations on out property are CFL.

Given that I don't need to go buy them, are the CFLs a better deal than investing in LEDs?  The LEDs I've looked at at the store use almost as much as the CFLs.  Our electric rate is $0.091414 Per kWh if that matters.

Don't overthink it.  I'd use the CFLs if you are happy with them.  By the time you have used them all, LEDs will be super awesome.

[BlueMR2]

even if it takes a couple years and possibly even if it means going without bulbs in some of your lights while you wait!

If you can go without those bulbs for an extended period of time, it raises the question, "Do you need that much artificial light in the first place?"

Indeed, that's why I'm not in any big rush to change all of our fixtures, and am just upgrading as lights burn out.  There's only a few that we use very often.  And of those, only a couple of them are on for any significant portion of the day.

[TheMadRussian]

Update. Ordered a couple of 6 packs of Cree 6W bulbs off Ebay and they are awesome. Super quality feeling, really nice light. No humming. Dimmable Win.

[TomTX]

The problem is it takes a few years to know if the claims are true.  I have seen a large number of LED signs and traffic lights with dead pixels.  Some have a significant number

Yep. LEDs are a lot more susceptible to power spikes (say, from a nearby lightning strike) than tungsten.  I'm not going to bank on the LED bulb lasting 22 years.

Even neglecting that concern:

My marginal power costs are just under $0.10/kWh, and CFL prices are more like $1.50 each at Costco. Plug those numbers in, and CFLs come out cheaper than the Cree LED bulbs (at 3 hrs/day use, for that number of years)

Then we start talking about the time value of money - there will be inflation, and the LED scenario requires more up-front spending of current dollars.

Next I suppose I should get out the Kill-a-Watt and measure the actual power draw.

That said, I'm not totally down on LED bulbs - as I just posted in another thread, I've bought a couple of the Cree bulbs, and I like them. However, they are in high-usage places. With current costs, I can't see wholesale replacement for me anytime soon.

Edit: This thread did inspire me to go remove bulbs from some multibulb fixtures. Lets see if she notices!

[TomTX]

Given that I don't need to go buy them, are the CFLs a better deal than investing in LEDs?  The LEDs I've looked at at the store use almost as much as the CFLs.  Our electric rate is $0.091414 Per kWh if that matters.

With your electric cost and free CFLs, there is no way for the Cree bulbs to make financial sense.

[ZiziPB]

Just wanted to let CT residents know that CL&P has been offering a lot of rebates and incentives on LED lights recently.  I went to my local Costco on New Year's Eve to find 3-pack Feit LED lightbulbs for $10 (60W equivalent) and $9 (40W equivalent) after an instant rebate from CL&P (at checkout).  I also saw some very good rebates at Home Depot.

So for all of you LED shoppers, check your local stores as these rebates are being offered by the local utility company and not available on line.

[prodarwin]

I'm seeking an LED recommendation.

I have a light fixture over my dining table that is a 6-socket candelabra light on a dimmable circuit.  When I initially moved in, I replaced the incandescents with some CFLs.  Mistake.  They suck.  Take too long to warm up to temp, the dimming range is shitty, and they just generally don't put out adequate light.  They are EcoSmart 5watt CFLs... not sure what the lumen output is on them, as the model # on them doesn't return any search results from the Google. (Edit, 40W equivalent, 200 lumens)

Anyway, can someone recommend me some LED bulbs for this fixture?  The problem is with 6 sockets, replacing the bulbs can get expensive, real fast.

Cliff notes:

60-75 watt equivalent or 300+ lumen dimmable candelabra socket LED bulb, with cost in mind.  What do you recommend?

I'm open to CFLs if someone could recommend a better replacement option.

[gillstone]

I'm seeking an LED recommendation.

I have a light fixture over my dining table that is a 6-socket candelabra light on a dimmable circuit.  When I initially moved in, I replaced the incandescents with some CFLs.  Mistake.  They suck.  Take too long to warm up to temp, the dimming range is shitty, and they just generally don't put out adequate light.  They are EcoSmart 5watt CFLs... not sure what the lumen output is on them, as the model # on them doesn't return any search results from the Google. (Edit, 40W equivalent, 200 lumens)

Anyway, can someone recommend me some LED bulbs for this fixture?  The problem is with 6 sockets, replacing the bulbs can get expensive, real fast.

Cliff notes:

60-75 watt equivalent or 300+ lumen dimmable candelabra socket LED bulb, with cost in mind.  What do you recommend?

I'm open to CFLs if someone could recommend a better replacement option.

We just bought 18 of these to replace the mass of candelabra bulbs that light our upstairs.  At basically $10/ea its was the best price we found without buying from a factory in China.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TCP-40W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-B10-Candelabra-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-3-Pack-RLDCT5W27K3/204499399

[prodarwin]

Thanks... do you find the light output adequate (compared with incandescent)?  How well does the dimming function work?

[gillstone]

Thanks... do you find the light output adequate (compared with incandescent)?  How well does the dimming function work?

Light output is pretty good.  I tested a 25W equivalent  earlier that in an array of 6 would be an adequate replacement for my 40W incandesents.  To replace some 60W, a 40W equivalent should do the trick for you.  Dimming is not total like on an incandesent where you can basically make it look like the light is off.  That being said, my totally non-scientific opinion is that at the lowest level you get about 1/4-1/3 of the light at full power.

[Villanelle]

Maybe I'm atypical, but my lights are on for far less than 3 hours at a time nearly always.  Perhaps during the long German winters when it is dark early I get 3 hours out of the lamp in the living room, but during the day I usually have no lights on (other than in the bathroom for my shower and prep, which is ~15 minutes) and at night I am in the kitchen for maybe 45 minutes and then 15 (cook then clean) and in the dining area to eat (45 minutes).  And then the living room is probably occupied and lit for maybe 2 hours total, and is often turned off a couple times during that stretch as we come and go.

So if these are only good for 3+ hour stretches, they'd be a waste for me.  Are my habits outside the norm?  Do most people frequently leave most lights on for 3 hours?  I'm thinking someone working from home in an office might, if there wasn't enough natural light, but in what other scenarios are people just sitting in one room for 3 hours? 

[prodarwin]

Maybe I'm atypical, but my lights are on for far less than 3 hours at a time nearly always.  Perhaps during the long German winters when it is dark early I get 3 hours out of the lamp in the living room, but during the day I usually have no lights on (other than in the bathroom for my shower and prep, which is ~15 minutes) and at night I am in the kitchen for maybe 45 minutes and then 15 (cook then clean) and in the dining area to eat (45 minutes).  And then the living room is probably occupied and lit for maybe 2 hours total, and is often turned off a couple times during that stretch as we come and go.

So do you use Incandescent?  CFL, LED?

So if these are only good for 3+ hour stretches, they'd be a waste for me.  Are my habits outside the norm?  Do most people frequently leave most lights on for 3 hours?  I'm thinking someone working from home in an office might, if there wasn't enough natural light, but in what other scenarios are people just sitting in one room for 3 hours? 

My kitchen lights are on for 3+ hours.  We have a semi-open floorplan and kitchen lights also light the dining area and living room a little bit.  I can't think of another light that would be on for 3+ hours.  Everything else I turn on/off when I enter/leave the room.  I use CFLs everywhere except the kitchen (LED floods are vastly superior to CFL floods), dining area (see above, hoping the same proves to be true for dimmable candelabra bulbs), and a closet that has 2 GU10 bulbs in it (I would like an LED recommendation for these).

One thing I often see overlooked when people do a financial analysis of this is heat.  Incandescents (and inefficient CFLs to some extent) produce heat.  A lot.  Have a few indoor flood lights and a couple other bright bulbs on in the house can quickly exceed 500watts.  In the summer, thats not only about 400 watts of wasted energy (vs a CFL/LED), its 400watts more heat your A/C system needs to pull out of the air, which due to inefficiencies is likely >600 watts... bringing the total to 1000watts or more very quickly.

[Villanelle]

Maybe I'm atypical, but my lights are on for far less than 3 hours at a time nearly always.  Perhaps during the long German winters when it is dark early I get 3 hours out of the lamp in the living room, but during the day I usually have no lights on (other than in the bathroom for my shower and prep, which is ~15 minutes) and at night I am in the kitchen for maybe 45 minutes and then 15 (cook then clean) and in the dining area to eat (45 minutes).  And then the living room is probably occupied and lit for maybe 2 hours total, and is often turned off a couple times during that stretch as we come and go.

So do you use Incandescent?  CFL, LED?

So if these are only good for 3+ hour stretches, they'd be a waste for me.  Are my habits outside the norm?  Do most people frequently leave most lights on for 3 hours?  I'm thinking someone working from home in an office might, if there wasn't enough natural light, but in what other scenarios are people just sitting in one room for 3 hours? 

I'm not sure what I use.  I live in Germany and have a box of 220 light bulbs, many half used, that were given to me by someone moving back to the States who had no need for 220 stuff.  Most of them take a while to warm up (so I think that means they are CFL), and some do that weird horror movie-reminiscient click and flicker thing. Does that help?  Oh and the overhear light fixture from Ikea has what I think are LEDs based on the look of the light, though I've not climbed up to inspect them.   I've yet to buy bulbs here, and I'm told that on the economy you can no longer buy incandescent, though I think I could still get them at the commissary if I wanted to for some reason. 

But if and when I do purchase bulbs here and then back in the States, it sounds like for me CFL is the way to go, given that I don't come close to 3 hour stretches.  With as little as I turn on my lights, I'm kind of hoping to leave here never having bought a light bulb, though I don't know if that's realistic, especially since I have to leave working bulbs in all the installed fixtures since that's how I got them.

[Prairie Stash]

I recently found out about 4 foot LED bulbs to replace my Flourescent bulbs. The previous home owner installed 2 of these ballasts in the basement. I find they have the Flourescent flicker, eventually I was going to need to replace them.

Has anyone tried the LED tubes? Will they solve my flicker problem and save me from useless renovations?

[TomTX]

I'm seeking an LED recommendation.

I have a light fixture over my dining table that is a 6-socket candelabra light on a dimmable circuit.  When I initially moved in, I replaced the incandescents with some CFLs.  Mistake.  They suck.  Take too long to warm up to temp, the dimming range is shitty, and they just generally don't put out adequate light.  They are EcoSmart 5watt CFLs... not sure what the lumen output is on them, as the model # on them doesn't return any search results from the Google. (Edit, 40W equivalent, 200 lumens)

Do you particularly like the fixture?

When we bought this house, I got a nice brushed-nickel fixture with standard (E23) sockets from Costco for ~$35, and got rid of the  old brass-n-glass hanging candelabra.

No need to futz with the tiny candelabra sockets.

[dan@themadrealworld]

The Cree LED 60w soft white bulbs are selling at home depot in CT for $3.97/bulb. In MA for $4.97/bulb.  They are subsidized by the state. I bought ten and have been trying them out.  They seem good in a fixture with 2 or 3 bulbs but seem  little weak by themself.