Author Topic: New subforum for hardcores?  (Read 10447 times)

kaypinkHH

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2018, 08:37:57 AM »
{Warily dips a toe into this thread...}

I would definitely not consider myself a member of this new proposed subforum, but I admire you all that do meet substantial bad ass goals/living situations etc all over this forum. I've been a MMM reader for years, and only semi-recently dove into the forums and have been enjoying seeing how far people can go and their personal successes!  (Shout out to @APowers for his sub $200/month food thread).

But even I, a medium level (?) mustachian, am surprised of the comments I've been receiving on threads just in the past week. Par example, I posted my normal monthly food spending update in the reduce my grocery spend thread, and mentioned I had a new baby on the way and restaurant spending should go down, and I had well intentioned (although not requested) advice that I may spend more than I think with a new baby because I may need to buy more convenience based food stuff/take out. Cool, but not expected from a MMM forum? Shouldn't I have gotten advice like "WHY IS YOUR RESTAURANT SPENDING SO HIGH IN THE FIRST PLACE??" Or even better advice like "New baby coming, keep up the attempt at bad ass food spending, here is how I kept my food spending down"....or no advice at all???  If I wanted "you will spend more when you have a new baby" comments I would just talk to EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

Don't even get me started with the recent shenanigans in the overheard at work thread.

I think going into journals/specific threads and face punching people willy nilly for their own life choices (ERE vs travel vs bigger house vs Vitamix blender) is not needed, but neither is the overall lower expectations into a more consumer mindset.

Maybe it is the time of year, we all got our tax returns and we are spending them like crazzzzyyyy. (JOKES).

Even as a not hard core MMMer, I would love to see a ERE corner here, for inspiration so I can remind myself there are always ways to improve. For now I'll continue to enjoy the "Share your badassity" section.

{Warily backs out of thread}

limeandpepper

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #101 on: May 01, 2018, 08:54:46 AM »
But even I, a medium level (?) mustachian, am surprised of the comments I've been receiving on threads just in the past week.

If you want face punches, start a thread and ask for them in the title to attract those who like a good old-fashioned punch-up. :)  In the olden days in the forum people would just dole them punches out without being asked, but these days most people tend to be more polite and only provide punches upon request.

GuitarStv

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #102 on: May 01, 2018, 09:01:31 AM »
80% savings rate in April, do I make the cut?

What's your blender status?

Cromacster

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #103 on: May 01, 2018, 02:49:03 PM »
80% savings rate in April, do I make the cut?

What's your blender status?

bahahaha made me laugh out loud.  Nice one.

Edit to add: Had to make this my signature.  too good.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 02:52:14 PM by Cromacster »

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #104 on: May 01, 2018, 02:54:46 PM »
I laughed so loud at that one too :))))))))))))))

APowers

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2018, 09:38:09 PM »
{Warily dips a toe into this thread...}

I would definitely not consider myself a member of this new proposed subforum, but I admire you all that do meet substantial bad ass goals/living situations etc all over this forum. I've been a MMM reader for years, and only semi-recently dove into the forums and have been enjoying seeing how far people can go and their personal successes!  (Shout out to @APowers for his sub $200/month food thread).

[snip]

{Warily backs out of thread}

Hey, I'm famous! I'm glad you find my thread helpful.

solon

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #106 on: May 02, 2018, 12:40:14 PM »
We're recommending car subscriptions now. This might be the single most unmustachian thing ever.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/are-we-headed-towards-a-future-where-mustachian-cars-are-not-available/msg1993300/#msg1993300

ketchup

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #107 on: May 02, 2018, 01:34:02 PM »
We're recommending car subscriptions now. This might be the single most unmustachian thing ever.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/are-we-headed-towards-a-future-where-mustachian-cars-are-not-available/msg1993300/#msg1993300
I don't think anyone in that thread was advocating it, simply people noticing new options cropping up and extrapolating to where that may lead.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #108 on: May 03, 2018, 05:02:25 AM »
...I  think that most people here would feel those to be too extreme for long term voluntary living but OK short term.

Also, since the "hardcore baseline" will be different between most here based on their own experiences and beliefs, maybe the goal should be anti-excess, barebones for happiness, minimal needs rather than "living in a cardboard box down by the river" kind of thing (although it can include that too and I personally like that kind of ideas to be discussed but doubt many others will).

Itís still so subjective and arbitrary, though. I think thatís the reason the (whole) forum needs to remain open, with each member responsible to and for herself.

By any definition, thousands on a quick vacation each year (for example) is excess. Itís excessive environmentally, financially, and in terms of percentage of most peopleís income, global need, local need, etc. Sharing a private home with only oneís favourite person is luxurious. Spending more to live in a high infrastructure area is both luxurious and excessive. Not relative to living in a cardboard box -relative to need, to simplicity, to the majority, etc. Most people on the planet live far more simply.

Extreme excess (e.g. two people spending $2000/mo for 1200 sq ft) is too low a comparison set point to be of much value. If we say a life of luxury and excess is the bar so long as itís slightly less excessive and luxurious as the extremes of Western middle class, are we really talking about badassity, by any definition?

It seems simpler to recognize that the vast majority of us (members) are lucky and soft and living cushy lives than to pretend weíre amazing.

I love the ideas in your closing sentences, and those are what we do on the forum already. Itís whatís gotten many of us from Super Soft to merely Quite Soft, which is cool.

Optimiser

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hardcore
« Reply #109 on: May 03, 2018, 11:00:45 AM »
...I  think that most people here would feel those to be too extreme for long term voluntary living but OK short term.

Also, since the "hardcore baseline" will be different between most here based on their own experiences and beliefs, maybe the goal should be anti-excess, barebones for happiness, minimal needs rather than "living in a cardboard box down by the river" kind of thing (although it can include that too and I personally like that kind of ideas to be discussed but doubt many others will).

Itís still so subjective and arbitrary, though. I think thatís the reason the (whole) forum needs to remain open, with each member responsible to and for herself.

By any definition, thousands on a quick vacation each year (for example) is excess. Itís excessive environmentally, financially, and in terms of percentage of most peopleís income, global need, local need, etc. Sharing a private home with only oneís favourite person is luxurious. Spending more to live in a high infrastructure area is both luxurious and excessive. Not relative to living in a cardboard box -relative to need, to simplicity, to the majority, etc. Most people on the planet live far more simply.

Extreme excess (e.g. two people spending $2000/mo for 1200 sq ft) is too low a comparison set point to be of much value. If we say a life of luxury and excess is the bar so long as itís slightly less excessive and luxurious as the extremes of Western middle class, are we really talking about badassity, by any definition?

It seems simpler to recognize that the vast majority of us (members) are lucky and soft and living cushy lives than to pretend weíre amazing.

I love the ideas in your closing sentences, and those are what we do on the forum already. Itís whatís gotten many of us from Super Soft to merely Quite Soft, which is cool.

This is something that MMM talks about too.
Quote from: Mr. Money Mustache
But to claim that freedom, you need to look around you and see that these trapped, tiny Sheeple around you are not normal or sensible. They are obedient followers of the social script, trapped so tightly that they can barely move. And although youíre a social animal too, you can rise up to a far happier lifestyle just by becoming a tiny bit less ridiculous than average.
Source: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/03/12/when-ridiculousness-is-ubiquitious/

Things are so out-of-hand, ridiculously luxurious everywhere we look. We can live really good, comfortable lives if we dial things back just a little bit. I like the forums here as a place to re-calibrate my expectations, because everyone around me in my real life is driving new SUVs, living in houses way bigger than they need, buying every new gadget, taking fancy vacations, drinking lattes etc and acting like that's the only way to live. As the forums here become a place where we condone doing the same thing, as long as you have an acceptably high savings rate and those choices "align with your values," it begins to look no different than our normal consumer culture, except for the fact that the people here have higher incomes.

My spending isn't perfect, and my savings rate has a lot of room for improvement on both the income and expense side, and I want a place where I feel challenged to re-examine what is normal and what is required to live a good life. That is why MMM resonated with me in the first place and why I find the direction that things are moving around here disappointing.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #110 on: May 03, 2018, 11:14:58 AM »
Thanks for those thoughts, Optimiser.
That was neat -I hadnít read those words of MMMís before.

Iím wondering about two things:

1. What causes some people to see a disappointing direction toward reduced effort, and others to see a whole bunch of people still making excellent effort to do what Pete proposed? Is it possible to change how we view things, or what we choose to read and focus on and talk about, or what gauntlets we start, etc? (Interestingly, when I think of several posters with super dialed back lives, I see none of those with a stated craving for likeminded people following them/ hanging with them.)

2. Can we achieve more of our goals by challenging ourselves vs being challenged by others? Do we need to find people who spend only $1k per year on vacations in order to be able to level up to Somewhat Soft? Or can the forum introduce us to new possibilities, then we can take ourselves the rest of the way?

Hirondelle

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Re: hardcore
« Reply #111 on: May 03, 2018, 01:03:31 PM »
My spending isn't perfect, and my savings rate has a lot of room for improvement on both the income and expense side, and I want a place where I feel challenged to re-examine what is normal and what is required to live a good life. That is why MMM resonated with me in the first place and why I find the direction that things are moving around here disappointing.

This is why I'm here too :) :). To be inspired to re-examine your own behavior and see how others seem happier while doing otherwise. And that doesn't always have to do with spending! It can be everything from spending less, to doing more DIY or gardening, doing inspiring stuff like homeschooling 5 kids, lots of volunteering, charity talk, increasing income, rice & beans recipes.

Even if you're not a super-low spender the MMM forums can be a wonderful place for all of us and even though I'm sometimes a bit disappointed by people who don't know how to get by on $100k/year, I will still cheer at them for finding this place and improving themselves.

pecunia

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #112 on: May 03, 2018, 06:58:15 PM »
Quote
In my world, itís so common for whole families or strangers to share a studio space, or families or individuals to live year round in a van or tent, that anything else seems highly luxurious. While many of these simply have no choice but to live badass, a good number of people in Vancouver are living in a van, car, or tent by choice to hit an excellent saving rate, or sharing and strategically managing a small house with 11 people -including strangers and babies- so they can donate to charitable causes. These seem ERE/purist/badass to me. Voluntarily paying higher-than-necessary shelter costs while living comfortably with only our favourite fellow adult, not so much.

Jeepers!  This badass world is really starting to sound like the third world.   I do have some admiration for their dedication to what I hope are worthy causes.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #113 on: May 03, 2018, 07:00:51 PM »
Quote
In my world, itís so common for whole families or strangers to share a studio space, or families or individuals to live year round in a van or tent, that anything else seems highly luxurious. While many of these simply have no choice but to live badass, a good number of people in Vancouver are living in a van, car, or tent by choice to hit an excellent saving rate, or sharing and strategically managing a small house with 11 people -including strangers and babies- so they can donate to charitable causes. These seem ERE/purist/badass to me. Voluntarily paying higher-than-necessary shelter costs while living comfortably with only our favourite fellow adult, not so much.

Jeepers!  This badass world is really starting to sound like the third world.   I do have some admiration for their dedication to what I hope are worthy causes.

Few of them refer to it as badass. They live highly strategically, whether out of necessity, in an effort to get ahead (save for long term), or in a commitment to help others (all of which reasons I deeply admire, yes.)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 09:17:50 PM by jooniFLORisploo »

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #114 on: May 03, 2018, 11:51:55 PM »
haha, I got totally karma'd on this topic today :)
I proposed that someone -in a precarious financial position and scared- look at possible ways to not need to buy a car at all.
Got some real pushback there from other members, some rather unpleasant. Oy.

Dicey

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #115 on: May 13, 2018, 09:22:21 AM »
On a brief hiatus, due to frustration along these exact lines. Also on vacation. I'll be back later. Is that enough words to placate the anti-PTF folks?

2Birds1Stone

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2018, 04:13:41 PM »
We can take those foo's ;)