Author Topic: New subforum for hardcores?  (Read 8558 times)

Zikoris

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New subforum for hardcores?
« on: April 25, 2018, 04:31:41 PM »
Would there be any interest in a new subforum for the more hardcore/purist/ERE among us? There seems to be a lot of disputes in threads lately between team "Clown alert, facepunching time" and team "OF COURSE you should buy meal delivery service/cleaning service/$800 blender if you're mindful about it". I guess I'd kind of like it if there was a small corner somewhere around here where spendypants consumer bullshit wasn't a thing.

Call it "Hardcore Hangout" and slap a warning sign on it or something.

Anyone else?

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« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 04:36:25 PM by Zikoris »
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secondcor521

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 04:40:45 PM »
Wouldn't that just be the ERE forum?  (Assuming such a thing exists; I'm guessing it does.)
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MrsWolfeRN

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 05:40:58 PM »
I agree, I got told off for telling someone to get rid of their cable because it was "just noise". And I'm not even as hardcore as some here.

While we're at it, can we have a relationship/marriage issues subforum too?

Optimiser

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 05:48:51 PM »
I like the idea. I've tried the ERE forums before, but there wasn't much going on over there.

maizeman

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 05:52:21 PM »
There is an ERE forum (https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com), but I think the concept of face punches is really uniquely an MMM thing, not something that's shared with the culture over there. Still the population over there is going, on average, to have substantially lower monthly expenses and net worth targets.

Zikoris

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 05:56:09 PM »
I agree, I got told off for telling someone to get rid of their cable because it was "just noise". And I'm not even as hardcore as some here.

While we're at it, can we have a relationship/marriage issues subforum too?

"Mustachian and Single" seems to be the designated relationship discussion area.
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solon

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 05:56:29 PM »
Yes, we should have a forum for hardcores. We should call it forum.mrmoneymustache.com

Rural

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 06:49:55 PM »
I think this is a good idea, and it might also give new people who are interested something to aspire to in the future while not feeling overwhelmed as they get started.


And an aside: if any of us has the cred to ask for such a subforum, it's Zikoris.

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 07:32:04 PM »
I vote we call it the "True Mustachian" forum.

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 08:11:50 PM »
I vote we call it the "True Mustachian" forum.


But I'm not sure we have a fallacy if the original definitions begin to shift. That's no reflection on anyone, just may be some would be interested in the lifestyle that was more typically discussed in the earlier days of this forum.

Carrie

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 08:37:08 PM »
I would like that. I'm interested in the challenge of getting household expenses down further, learning more skills, and discussing frugal hacks. Not so interested in "I make a bazillion dollars so it's okay if I spend half a bazillion. Yolo."

tralfamadorian

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 07:56:42 AM »
I would like this too.

Malkynn

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2018, 08:32:08 AM »
Even I would like this and would have no problem getting face punched for certain things.

Iím all for respecting peopleís personal decisions, but I would love an area thatís consistently less permissive of spending apologists and where itís expected that if you post about lifestyle inflation spending that itís going to be challenged, and aggressively so. Where if you say ďIím cool with my computer speakers but should I upgrade?Ē that you donít get a multi page thread of people selling you on the benefits of upgrading your speakers and where almost nobody says ďstick with your computer speakersĒ

I feel like I could post here about spending pretty much anything and if I said ďwell X is important to meĒ that almost no one would challenge me. Iím prepared to defend my spending decisions, and itís a good intellectual exercise to be challenged on them and to mount a well thought out defense, but I donít even get challenged. Not even on getting regular fucking Botox. Botox!!! The definitive bougie symbol of consumerist vanity!!! Only one person ever commented and that was to agree with me that itís totally worth it in some cases.

Iíve mentioned my biweekly housekeeper on several occasions, expecting some kind of response, and literally no one has ever questioned me on it. I have a wickedly well thought out reply for the expected face punch that never came, but COME ON thatís the kind of thing that should require a well thought out and self critical explanation.

In another thread someone said that this forum is too harsh and I was like ďreallly??!Ē
Iím happy for the inclusiveness is this community as a whole, but some of us are definitely craving a tougher kind of love.

All that to say, yes, please create a space where I can get solid challenges and criticism of my discretionary spending. Its extremely helpful to have a place to go where I know people arenít just going to be permissive of spending because I get enough of that in the real world.

Zikoris, I may sound hypocritical to you since Iíve challenged your definitions of Mustachianism in other threads, but just because I believe thereís room for everyone here doesnít mean I donít crave a space where people are far more stringent and disciplined in their expectations of frugality.

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2018, 09:03:18 AM »
Even I would like this and would have no problem getting face punched for certain things.

Iím all for respecting peopleís personal decisions, but I would love an area thatís consistently less permissive of spending apologists and where itís expected that if you post about lifestyle inflation spending that itís going to be challenged, and aggressively so. Where if you say ďIím cool with my computer speakers but should I upgrade?Ē that you donít get a multi page thread of people selling you on the benefits of upgrading your speakers and where almost nobody says ďstick with your computer speakersĒ

I feel like I could post here about spending pretty much anything and if I said ďwell X is important to meĒ that almost no one would challenge me. Iím prepared to defend my spending decisions, and itís a good intellectual exercise to be challenged on them and to mount a well thought out defense, but I donít even get challenged. Not even on getting regular fucking Botox. Botox!!! The definitive bougie symbol of consumerist vanity!!! Only one person ever commented and that was to agree with me that itís totally worth it in some cases.

Iíve mentioned my biweekly housekeeper on several occasions, expecting some kind of response, and literally no one has ever questioned me on it. I have a wickedly well thought out reply for the expected face punch that never came, but COME ON thatís the kind of thing that should require a well thought out and self critical explanation.

In another thread someone said that this forum is too harsh and I was like ďreallly??!Ē
Iím happy for the inclusiveness is this community as a whole, but some of us are definitely craving a tougher kind of love.

All that to say, yes, please create a space where I can get solid challenges and criticism of my discretionary spending. Its extremely helpful to have a place to go where I know people arenít just going to be permissive of spending because I get enough of that in the real world.

Zikoris, I may sound hypocritical to you since Iíve challenged your definitions of Mustachianism in other threads, but just because I believe thereís room for everyone here doesnít mean I donít crave a space where people are far more stringent and disciplined in their expectations of frugality.

The attitude as a whole definitely seems to have shifted over the last couple of years.

Malkynn

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2018, 09:10:13 AM »

The attitude as a whole definitely seems to have shifted over the last couple of years.

Iíve only been here since November, so I donít know what it was like before.

I like the way it is actually, and think it will benefit the population at large more by being supportive and inclusive, but I think itís a great idea to have a hardcore space where we can choose to be highly critical of spending.

Optimiser

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 09:13:06 AM »
I would like that. I'm interested in the challenge of getting household expenses down further, learning more skills, and discussing frugal hacks. Not so interested in "I make a bazillion dollars so it's okay if I spend half a bazillion. Yolo."

If I had a dollar for everytime I've seen that on here I'd be FIREd by now.

tarheeldan

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 09:51:58 AM »
I'm down! I miss the old days, and it'd be great to have a spot where facepunches are cool again.

GuitarStv

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 09:54:17 AM »
Yes, we should have a forum for hardcores. We should call it forum.mrmoneymustache.com

+1


I think that the forums would lose a lot by isolating the people who are best able to give appropriate advice.  We would be overrun with Vitamix blenders, market timers, and Bitcoin shills.

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 09:57:56 AM »
But if no wienies are allowed who will we get to face punch? But it would be nice for a change not to have the high income types telling me I'm doing it all wrong (reverse face punching me) because I'm not spending enough and my life must be a hellious pit of boredom, tedium, and squalor.  Followed by a long list of things I'm denying myself and missing out on by living frugally. And that I should work longer so I can have and do ALL THE THINGS required for a proper life. Oh yeah, and how I'll die soon cause ER is a direct cause of death. Yeah I'm in ;-).

I mean from what I gather that's the case.  ski bumming, beach volleyball, hanging out with your dogs in a van?  Sounds terrible ;)  Enjoy your early death.
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SunshineAZ

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2018, 10:26:49 AM »
Even I would like this and would have no problem getting face punched for certain things.

Iím all for respecting peopleís personal decisions, but I would love an area thatís consistently less permissive of spending apologists and where itís expected that if you post about lifestyle inflation spending that itís going to be challenged, and aggressively so. Where if you say ďIím cool with my computer speakers but should I upgrade?Ē that you donít get a multi page thread of people selling you on the benefits of upgrading your speakers and where almost nobody says ďstick with your computer speakersĒ

I feel like I could post here about spending pretty much anything and if I said ďwell X is important to meĒ that almost no one would challenge me. Iím prepared to defend my spending decisions, and itís a good intellectual exercise to be challenged on them and to mount a well thought out defense, but I donít even get challenged. Not even on getting regular fucking Botox. Botox!!! The definitive bougie symbol of consumerist vanity!!! Only one person ever commented and that was to agree with me that itís totally worth it in some cases.

Iíve mentioned my biweekly housekeeper on several occasions, expecting some kind of response, and literally no one has ever questioned me on it. I have a wickedly well thought out reply for the expected face punch that never came, but COME ON thatís the kind of thing that should require a well thought out and self critical explanation.

In another thread someone said that this forum is too harsh and I was like ďreallly??!Ē
Iím happy for the inclusiveness is this community as a whole, but some of us are definitely craving a tougher kind of love.

All that to say, yes, please create a space where I can get solid challenges and criticism of my discretionary spending. Its extremely helpful to have a place to go where I know people arenít just going to be permissive of spending because I get enough of that in the real world.

Zikoris, I may sound hypocritical to you since Iíve challenged your definitions of Mustachianism in other threads, but just because I believe thereís room for everyone here doesnít mean I donít crave a space where people are far more stringent and disciplined in their expectations of frugality.

LOL we shall call it "Fifty shades of green"? 

MonkeyJenga

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 10:27:46 AM »
What if people can tag their questions/case studies with "face punches encouraged"? Tell people you don't want to be coddled.

From a practical standpoint, I don't see how a subforum would work. What topics are included? Who is qualified for membership? In addition, every new subforum makes the overall forum run more slowly/use more resources.

I have started to be the change I want to see in the forum: I go into non-journal threads more often to be a voice for the hardcore view. I think a lot of the more frugal posters get annoyed and stop posting in case studies as much, which leads to the consensus shifting to "spend on your values, no matter how frivolous."

DreamFIRE

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 06:45:44 PM »
So do we retreat to our own frugal sub forum or continue to play Whack-A-Spendypants-Mole with the high spending consumer sukkas on the general forums?

hehe  I like that.  I've seen so many spendypants posts that I've just gotten used to it.   If the old timers aren't going to call out anti-Mustachian behavior, I don't feel it's my place to, even if that's what I'm thinking.

I almost never read the journals or case studies - I spend more time on here than I should as it is.

limeandpepper

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 09:53:49 PM »
From a practical standpoint, I don't see how a subforum would work. What topics are included? Who is qualified for membership?

Yeah I find this a bit iffy as well.

And an aside: if any of us has the cred to ask for such a subforum, it's Zikoris.

That actually brings me to another point. Zikoris spends thousands on travel. Not picking on her specifically, I too am capable of spending less than $1k/month while also setting aside a good chunk of money to go travel. Even though my overall spending is still low compared to most, I don't know if I can really call myself hardcore when I spend on something so frivolous just because "experiences" yadda yadda yadda... let's call a spade a spade, travel is a luxury (even when you're doing it on the cheap) and I don't see it as being "better" than a fancy blender if someone gets a lot of joy and utility out of either purchase. People value different things.

I agree it is disconcerting though when in a forum like this some people argue that half a million for one person isn't enough to retire on as I've seen in some cases...

Zikoris

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
That actually brings me to another point. Zikoris spends thousands on travel. Not picking on her specifically, I too am capable of spending less than $1k/month while also setting aside a good chunk of money to go travel. Even though my overall spending is still low compared to most, I don't know if I can really call myself hardcore when I spend on something so frivolous just because "experiences" yadda yadda yadda... let's call a spade a spade, travel is a luxury (even when you're doing it on the cheap) and I don't see it as being "better" than a fancy blender if someone gets a lot of joy and utility out of either purchase. People value different things.

As a fun side note, in my experience we've never actually managed to get categorized as average by anyone, ever - we're either considered so insanely frugal and disciplined that no normal person could ever come close to replicating it, or ridiculously extravagant. Personally, I feel like we fit more into "extremely extravagant" with our spending level, and also because neither of us has a shred of willpower or discipline, but I'm cool with both classifications. It's just funny that we never seem to land in the middle.
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Miss Piggy

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 07:12:37 AM »
I have started to be the change I want to see in the forum: I go into non-journal threads more often to be a voice for the hardcore view.

I think this is the better way to go. I'm not good at it, and I could sure benefit from a few facepunches myself, but I would love to see the pendulum swing back to where it originally began.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2018, 07:43:05 AM »
limeandpepper speaks my mind re: the arbitrariness of the forum police determining a $300 blender every seven years is ďbadĒ and $3000 annually in brief vacations is frugal, hardcore, or purist.

In any case, MMM focuses on prioritizing -on spending per values- not on frugality. Weíd do well to help people dig deeper into their values, and spend accordingly, than to punch them because they have different ones from any given one of us.

Frugality threads can be started anywhere on the existing forum, and are. Any thread can include in its title ďfacepunches wanted.Ē That said, I think itís positive that weíve moved on from a babysitting/dictator/authoritarian/only my values are the right values approach.

I donít get upset when someone with $2mil saved decides to spend $60k of that on their dream van...or travel...or blenders. Theyíre done. Theyíve won. Theyíre all good. Personally, Iíd rather see the money go directly to alleviating hunger, etc, but saving/hoarding extreme amounts for the sake of saving is silly, IMO.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 08:22:44 AM by jooniFLORisploo »
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ketchup

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2018, 07:47:56 AM »
What if people can tag their questions/case studies with "face punches encouraged"? Tell people you don't want to be coddled.
I actually like this idea.  It would solve the problem of a sub-forum isolating all the hardcore and allowing the non-hardcore to become even less hardcore with nobody around to kick them in the ass.

GuitarStv

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2018, 07:52:47 AM »
From a practical standpoint, I don't see how a subforum would work. What topics are included? Who is qualified for membership?

Yeah I find this a bit iffy as well.

I vote that we ban MMM from the subforum if we do create it.  He travels too much to be a real mustachian.  :P

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2018, 07:55:44 AM »
I vote that we ban MMM from the subforum if we do create it.  He travels too much to be a real mustachian.  :P

:)))))))))

Though if he were swimming across the ocean, then couchsurfing or sleeping on dirt on the other side, we could consider him for membership.
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DS

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2018, 08:20:45 AM »
Wouldn't it be just as hardcore parkour to continue to post the hardcore parkour comments in non-hardcore parkour topics?

MonkeyJenga

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2018, 08:52:14 AM »
I can't believe nobody has made a porn joke yet.

I can't believe I haven't made a porn joke yet.

Is this what it feels like to be an adult?

Zikoris

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2018, 12:16:40 PM »
Okay, it seems like there's definitely some will for this to happen, so... how do we do it?

Email MMM? Tag moderators? How do you even tag people again?
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GuitarStv

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2018, 12:23:53 PM »
I can't believe nobody has made a porn joke yet.

I can't believe I haven't made a porn joke yet.

Is this what it feels like to be an adult?

Okay, it seems like there's definitely some will for this to happen, so... how do we do it?

Email MMM? Tag moderators? How do you even tag people again?

I guess you would just start by making a porn related joke and hoping for the best, but you could always try contacting MMM if you're unable to think of one.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2018, 12:31:33 PM »
rotflmao
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SunshineAZ

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2018, 12:45:24 PM »
I can't believe nobody has made a porn joke yet.

I can't believe I haven't made a porn joke yet.

Is this what it feels like to be an adult?

I made a "Fifty shades of gray" reference, does that count?  (But nobody commented, so maybe it was a botched attempt at humor. *sigh*) 

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2018, 12:48:13 PM »
I made a "Fifty shades of gray" reference, does that count?  (But nobody commented, so maybe it was a botched attempt at humor. *sigh*)

Oohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, NOW I get it!!!
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Optimiser

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2018, 12:55:19 PM »
What if individual posts could be rated on a scale from True Mustachian to Consumer Sucker. Each forum user could then have a rank based on their cumulative posts. You could choose to filter out posts that were below a certain ranking, or threads started by users that were known Consumer Suckers.

I have no idea if that would actually be feasible or desirable. I imagine that it would lead to weird unintended consequences like people being assholes to boost their True Mustachian score.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2018, 01:08:29 PM »
::much delighted laughing and clapping!::
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jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2018, 02:03:58 PM »
But how is desire to fulfill nostalgia with a fraction of savings less enlightened than blowing a significant percentage of savings and income on brief annual vacations?

Who gets to decide what's okay to value? Why are vacations supported if we're one of the lucky few accessing a federally-developed nonmarket housing option, but not if one is among the majority required to pay for market housing? It's wise and smart and lucky to snag nonmarket housing in a high-infrastructure location, but I wouldn't say it makes a person more eligible for accolades than one who hasn't managed to yet, nor one who paid for market housing and saved big and now wants to splurge with a portion.
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ketchup

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2018, 02:11:25 PM »
What if individual posts could be rated on a scale from True Mustachian to Consumer Sucker. Each forum user could then have a rank based on their cumulative posts. You could choose to filter out posts that were below a certain ranking, or threads started by users that were known Consumer Suckers.

I have no idea if that would actually be feasible or desirable. I imagine that it would lead to weird unintended consequences like people being assholes to boost their True Mustachian score.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Development_and_Condiments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive
I think I've seen how this usually goes. :P

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2018, 02:17:21 PM »
But how is desire to fulfill nostalgia with a fraction of savings less enlightened than blowing a significant percentage of savings and income on brief annual vacations?

Who gets to decide what's okay to value? Why are vacations supported if we're one of the lucky few accessing a federally-developed nonmarket housing option, but not if one is among the majority required to pay for market housing? It's wise and smart and lucky to snag nonmarket housing in a high-infrastructure location, but I wouldn't say it makes a person more eligible for accolades than one who hasn't managed to yet, nor one who paid for market housing and saved big and now wants to splurge with a portion.

Re: co-op housing. I feel like I've posted this a lot, but if you haven't seen it before, here it is, to clarify our living situation:

Living in a co-op has not saved us one cent, and in fact cost us substantially more than if we had continued to rent the place we were in prior to living here. We moved here because we liked the area, and wanted the downtown lifestyle, and were willing to pay a substantially higher price for that. Meaning if we theoretically had not moved here, we'd have even MORE money to spend on travel, not less, because our rent would be much lower. This is by FAR the most expensive place we've ever lived in, and it has been since the day we moved in.

So basically, it's a really ridiculous argument to make, mathematically incorrect, and not grounded in reality. Maybe one day people will stop making it?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 02:19:04 PM by Zikoris »
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Cassie

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2018, 02:23:27 PM »
Spartana, I can't believe that people are actually saying that you are depriving yourself. Your life seems great and happy. I have always wanted to meet you. Society's values as a whole have changed because at 63 when I was young everyone I knew was frugal. I didn't have one friend that lived above their means.  Now all of us are spending more then we ever did traveling, etc and doing all those things that we couldn't afford to do while raising kids, etc.  Also we can afford to rescue dogs at this point in our life which is great too.  This summer we are piling all 3 dogs in the car and taking a 4k road trip for 2 months to visit all our friends and family all over the country.  We are doing a combo of motel 6's and tent camping.  Gas and RV sites have gotten so expensive that is cheaper to do it this way then to drive our old motorhome.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2018, 02:33:12 PM »
Maybe one day people will stop making it?

They might not. You view it in a very unique and interesting way, but that's unlikely to prevent others from seeing what they see. Both are okay; we don't need to argue it here.

You could just ignore the part above about the sweetness of federally-developed nonmarket housing, because regardless of whether a person manages to get into nonmarket or even achieves zero-cost housing (totally doable, as we see so many people doing), the vacation expenses are worthy of consideration (some would say facepunches) in their own right. From that place alone, I don't know how you would qualify yourself for the proposed subforum, yet not a dude who, say, bought a costly blender.

Again, I'm a huge advocate of pursuing nonmarket housing and of spending according to one's preferences and priorities -including travel. I have no concerns with how you spend, where you choose to splurge. I just don't share the definition of hardcore/frugal/badass/extreme/purist that some do. There are plenty of people in the latter category, but not so many here (including myself, Mr MM, etc). I don't want to see spartana and MJ all alone in a subforum!
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2Birds1Stone

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2018, 02:47:08 PM »
I dig it, I've been reading the old ERE threads going back to 2012 to get my fill of the more hardcore mindset =)

This place has changed a lot since I joined in 2014.

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2018, 02:49:03 PM »
Maybe one day people will stop making it?

They might not. You view it in a very unique and interesting way, but that's unlikely to prevent others from seeing what they see. Both are okay; we don't need to argue it here.

You could just ignore the part above about the sweetness of federally-developed nonmarket housing, because regardless of whether a person manages to get into nonmarket or even achieves zero-cost housing (totally doable, as we see so many people doing), the vacation expenses are worthy of consideration (some would say facepunches) in their own right. From that place alone, I don't know how you would qualify yourself for the proposed subforum, yet not a dude who, say, bought a costly blender.

Again, I'm a huge advocate of pursuing nonmarket housing and of spending according to one's preferences and priorities -including travel. I have no concerns with how you spend, where you choose to splurge. I just don't share the definition of hardcore/frugal/badass/extreme/purist that some do. There are plenty of people in the latter category, but not so many here (including myself, Mr MM, etc). I don't want to see spartana and MJ all alone in a subforum!

I guess that brings up a good question as to what qualifies as hardcore mustachian?  (does not include mustache rides)

It is a high savings rate? Low total spend? Some quantifiable number of low consumption? Carbon output? how many homemade cocktails sippped on a beach per year?

« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 02:50:54 PM by Cromacster »
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jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2018, 02:54:27 PM »
I guess that brings up a good question as to what qualifies as hardcore mustachian? [...]

It is a high savings rate? Low total spend? Some quantifiable number of low consumption? Carbon output? how many homemade cocktails sippped on a beach per year?

Absolutely.

And surely, we're all big enough and strong enough to define our personal best and ask for help to achieve that, rather than any one member's idea of which goals are acceptable in another?
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Zikoris

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2018, 02:58:41 PM »
Maybe one day people will stop making it?

They might not. You view it in a very unique and interesting way, but that's unlikely to prevent others from seeing what they see. Both are okay; we don't need to argue it here.

Well, actually, they're not both okay, because one is objectively wrong. It's objectively wrong to say that we come out ahead financially by living in a co-op, when we in fact objectively come out worse. This is a math equation. If Option A comes with price tag $X and Option B comes with price tag less-than-$X, there's a right and a wrong answer as to what costs more.
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solon

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2018, 03:08:40 PM »
Can anyone point me to more information about "co-op housing"?

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2018, 03:15:39 PM »
Well, actually, they're not both okay, because one is objectively wrong. It's objectively wrong to say that we come out ahead financially by living in a co-op, when we in fact objectively come out worse. This is a math equation. If Option A comes with price tag $X and Option B comes with price tag less-than-$X, there's a right and a wrong answer as to what costs more.

I do see what you're saying here. You're saying that you pay more in this nonmarket housing than you might pay elsewhere (which would also disqualify you for the proposed purist subforum, no?).

This is definitely true for many of us. We pay more for any given housing situation than to live in a L'Arche home, for example. It's not crazy to spend some money on housing, but we can acknowledge that we're spending unnecessarily.

It can also be true that we're spending more than actually necessary to have luxury/preferences while also being true that we're getting a skookum deal.

Some of us are saying you pay less for this nonmarket housing than you would for the equivalent in market housing (space, location, amenities, city).

This is how both are correct -different things are being compared. It's always okay for people to explore varying aspects and angles of a matter.

Like so many here, you do a great job with saving and most spending, and seeing the various angles doesn't take away from that.
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jooniFLORisploo

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Re: New subforum for hardcores?
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »
I don't understand what any of the housing talk is as I think it only applies to Canadians

No, we have forum members in the US and other parts of the world also in nonmarket housing.
I didn't mean to create a tangent. I was just aiming to point to examples (and not specific to Zikoris).

...but all I meant was that many people upgrade their housing with little thought to either true need and, more importantly, true happiness. They have the money to go bigger so they just go bigger without questioning why.

For sure.

...yes I agree if that's what a person wants then that's what they should get. If they aren't interested in introspection or discussions from forum members about "why" they want it then that's fine too but they can't expect everyone here to applaud their choice and spending without questioning it.

Yep, fair enough. We all have different ideas and it's natural that people will be appalled by one decision, or not applauding of another. I think we just need to be very careful about believing our values are "the right ones" or the best ones and different ones are stupid or whatever.

FWIW I have no problem face punching travel expenses. Especially if I think people can replicate the same experience on much lower cost - and maybe have an even better experience for much less.

Yep, expensive travel is a point I'm boggled on. I've travelled a lot, spending nothing near what frugal people on the forum are spending. To each his own, though -it's just no skin off my nose.
"Ignoring the value of social policy because you were born in a log cabin you built yourself, however, is similarly unhelpful." ~Hargrove