Author Topic: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles  (Read 4144 times)

Unionville

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Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« on: February 17, 2023, 07:29:08 PM »
Hi, I've never been able to edit my responses to messages without having to deal with html (even when I toggle the arrow) and is hard to find the right closing tags if there are several comments of comments.

Am I missing something obvious?  Sometimes I'd like to eliminate text so the comment doesn't become a massive size.  And it would be great to do it without having to match up a bunch of tags.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 07:30:52 PM by Brook »

deborah

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2023, 08:18:16 PM »
Is it possible that you have quick reply closed? There are two panes - the topic, and quick reply.  If Quick Reply has a + next to it, it's closed, but you just click on the plus and it opens up.

Unionville

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2023, 10:07:16 AM »
Is it possible that you have quick reply closed? There are two panes - the topic, and quick reply.  If Quick Reply has a + next to it, it's closed, but you just click on the plus and it opens up.

Can you tell me where the setting is?  I'm not seeing it. (screenshot attached)

Unionville

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2023, 10:25:50 AM »
Is it possible that you have quick reply closed? There are two panes - the topic, and quick reply.  If Quick Reply has a + next to it, it's closed, but you just click on the plus and it opens up.

Ok - I found the quick reply, but it's just a standard reply to the main topic.  Is there a way to pull out a post (in the topic) to reply to someone else in the discussion?  For example, when you see the colored boxes that show prior comments?  Or are you suppose to cut and past theme and put them into the new quickreply box?

Dicey

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2023, 10:29:29 AM »
Just a wild ass guess as I understand none of the jargon, but can you see the quote icon on the upper right, above the comment?

Unionville

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2023, 04:10:03 PM »
Just a wild ass guess as I understand none of the jargon, but can you see the quote icon on the upper right, above the comment?

Yes I can use the quotes in this example, and it's fine if it's only one person.  But when it's 3 or 4 embedded inside each other, I have to hunt down all the html tags (like where it has the slash lines with brackets [/] to make sure they match each poster, or else all the formatting turns into a mess, whereas WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) - you don't have the html.  It's more like normal text without the html tags.

Daley

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2023, 06:54:51 PM »
Okay, first, need to help clarify a couple things with you:
  • What you're seeing isn't HTML, it's BBcode. It may be HTML-esque, but it's not HTML. Pedantic, I know, but it helps to properly identify what we're dealing with and its limitations.
  • Second, WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) isn't enabled by default on this SMF install for this community.
  • Third, WYSIWYG mode isn't going to solve your problems, and I'll explain why here shortly.
  • Fourth and final, your biggest problem is actually a community culture problem that I've brought up for years here that nobody has taken much care towards, and I'll explain that after.
Now, about WYSIWYG mode in SMF. If you want to enable that mode by default, you will need to go here in your user profile (Profile > Modify Profile > Look and Layout), and then enable the checkmark next to "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default." near the bottom of the page before the dropdown menu settings for topic and message display count per page. You can also toggle WYSIWYG mode off and on by clicking on the little [] button there at the end of the editor options. This said, I'm not going to recommend turning it on by default, as there's a reason why the raw text editor is enabled by default instead.

That reason? Because the WYSIWYG editor only works on bold, italic, underline, strikethrough, subscript, superscript, unordered and ordered lists,
preformatted

left
right and
center alignment,
font face/size/color, hyperlinks,

horizontal rules, and embedded images.

It unfortunately does not work with glow, shadow, marquee, teletype, tables, code, spoilers, and most importantly, "quote". All the most useful bits that you'd want WYSIWYG on while editing won't actually WYSIWYG. This isn't to say hiding any other formatting can't help relieve some of the confusion, but that brings us to my other point on why you're having problems.

It's a lack of oldskool forum etiquette and manners, and that's been the standard of this community for as long as I've been here, and I have a low three digit account and joined in the first three weeks of the place going live. It's always been like this. If it's any comfort, the deep nested quotes past a single or double nesting at most drive me up a wall, too... as does the perpetual habit for people to quote entire posts in response, especially for short replies. I cut my netiquette teeth on forums back in the day where this sort of posting behavior was a ban-able offense, so I tend to try not to quote entire posts and only relevant bits with replies, and I try to avoid ever nesting quotes past two levels. It's a courtesy, even and especially today with all the mobile phone users reading the forums with their phones in vertical mode and the responsive design theme narrows the whole mess down to less than 400em... because nothing says classy forum etiquette like posting replies that have quotes so deep the oldest quote is one letter wide by as many lines long as the post has letters and having to scroll forever through that on a phone just to read "PTF" or "+1", or something. But I'm not gonna lie, it's hard work to do that cleanup when potentially replying to stuff like that, and it takes a lot of effort to pay attention to where all the moving parts are as well as keeping track of nested code structure with it all. It's something you just kinda... learn to tolerate... posting here... or you just learn to dodge the entire quote train when replying. You learn to keep an unedited copy in a notepad window and use the "preview" button... A LOT.

I know it's not the answer you want, and it's not the critique of the forum community that a lot of people want to read, but it's the truth, it's reality, and it's a problem. It's why a lot of the older forum moderators in other communities used to be such hardasses about that sort of thing. It's literally a usability problem. Welcome back, best of luck learning to live with it.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 07:03:47 PM by Daley »

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2023, 09:58:12 PM »
Quote
It's literally a usability problem.

I hadn't known that, thanks for the info.

At one point, I recall seeing more usage of [snip] when quoting, but nobody really does that anymore here

Daley

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2023, 07:07:22 AM »
Well I'll be dipped. Someone's finally released a BBcode syntax highlighter plugin for Notepad++. Just install Notepad++, download the UDL file, and then go to the app menu's:
Language > User Defined Language > Open User Defined Language folder...
And paste the downloaded .udl.xml file into that folder, and restart Notepad++ and select the new "BB Code" entry in the same Language menu before you get started. The interface can feel a little overwhelming, but the two most important features beyond Undo and Redo, will be toggling Word Wrap under View (though there is an icon button for that), and Replace under Search (again, there's an icon button for that) for this sort of thing. Everything else you can pretty much ignore.

Copy-pasting complex posts into that sucker for editing instead of doing it in browser might help you deal with the problem better, @Brook

I know it'll make my more complex posting occasions easier. Sure beats the heck out of unhighlited syntax in a text editor. It's not the most perfect solution, but it's a solution for dealing with the problem that doesn't force the rest of the community to change, so you too can hopefully lead by example.



[snip]
At one point, I recall seeing more usage of [snip] when quoting, but nobody really does that anymore here

Not really, I only really ever remember myself around here... and glad to help enlighten. ;)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 07:09:51 AM by Daley »

GilesMM

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2023, 09:04:02 AM »
...Sometimes I'd like to eliminate text so the comment doesn't become a massive size. ...


Just scroll up to the second line and select everything down to the top of the final quote, delete it and replace with "...".    That way you are just quoting the last person, which is normally sufficient.  If are you only addressing a portion of that quote, you can also delete text before and after to focus your response, like I did with yours here.

Dicey

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2023, 09:28:07 AM »
...Sometimes I'd like to eliminate text so the comment doesn't become a massive size. ...
Just scroll up to the second line and select everything down to the top of the final quote, delete it and replace with "...".    That way you are just quoting the last person, which is normally sufficient.  If are you only addressing a portion of that quote, you can also delete text before and after to focus your response, like I did with yours here.
First, thank you, Daley, for that explanation. I am an early member with no previous forum experience and zero IT background. I also do not read on my phone, kind of for the same reason I don't do social media: I actually do have a life.

Sometimes I quote the whole thread, sometimes I use GilesMM's technique. I occasionally use [snip], but it's kind of redundant if you think about it.

I've just gotten used to the way things are here. Yesterday, I went to ERN (I have an account there, but never use it) and instantly hated the way it looked, just because it's different. I guess you just get used to what you get used to. These are free resources from which there is much knowledge to be gained. My thought is a person such as myself can appreciate them as they are with a little mental adaptation, because someone has put a shitload of energy into it. It may not be perfect, but it's enough to enrich my life, and I am grateful for that.


Daley

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2023, 10:55:25 AM »
I've just gotten used to the way things are here.

Yup, same. Why I went into detail the way I did, something about knowledge being power. It's just the way things work around here, so you just kinda adapt to the imperfect system. It's what you do when you deal with both people and technology, given the pobody's nerfect philosophy. The folks are pretty decent, and I know it's no intended slight by anyone because nobody uses the place the same way, but the old ways were the old ways frequently for a reason... it's just Eternal September. I try to help when I can, where I can, but you just kinda get used to it after three decades at this point. lol

Sincerely,
An old grouchy usenet fart
September 10764, 1993

PS: Edited to add (I know, I don't do that enough with the posts I monkey with and edit after posting and missing stuff I need to clarify or spelling mistakes... or straight up adding stuff I forgot. *cough* That's one of my newer bad habits that I picked up posting here since there's no post-edit deadline.)

I occasionally use [snip], but it's kind of redundant if you think about it.
[snip]
These are free resources from which there is much knowledge to be gained.

Well, [snip] is more for situations like the above, where you're quoting, but cutting out content between quoted points, and you're specifically highlighting that you clipped content out. Great way to cut down a huge post to something more manageable... though the ellipses can equally be used the same way when you're not abusing them for inserting verbal pregnant pauses in text.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 11:29:43 AM by Daley »

Dicey

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2023, 11:06:58 AM »
I've just gotten used to the way things are here.

Yup, same. Why I went into detail the way I did, something about knowledge being power. It's just the way things work around here, so you just kinda adapt to the imperfect system. It's what you do when you deal with both people and technology, given the pobody's nerfect philosophy. The folks are pretty decent, and I know it's no intended slight by anyone because nobody uses the place the same way, but the old ways were the old ways frequently for a reason... it's just Eternal September. I try to help when I can, where I can, but you just kinda get used to it after three decades at this point. lol

Sincerely,
An old grouchy usenet fart
September 10764, 1993
I was just happy to see you commenting outside your journal. I hope that's a good sign for your recovery. I loved your explanation, btw.

Daley

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2023, 11:26:22 AM »
I was just happy to see you commenting outside your journal. I hope that's a good sign for your recovery. I loved your explanation, btw.

I hope it's a good sign as well, though I don't think I'll do much outside the journal anymore outside of stuff like this at this point. One can only post RedPocket Mobile in response to cellphone questions, or be a wet blanket about the dark side of emerging technologies that the ruling class get all excited about so many times, before you just kinda get tired of being redundant. It's part of why I personally left the first time... not all of it, but part.

And thanks, I try. :)

Unionville

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2023, 10:01:16 PM »

Now, about WYSIWYG mode in SMF. If you want to enable that mode by default, you will need to go here in your user profile (Profile > Modify Profile > Look and Layout), and then enable the checkmark next to "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default."

In my experience, even at some of the largest banks in the world - they rarely explain correctly how to get to a certain setting in such a clear way.  They usually skip a step or have not updated their website.  Thanks for explaining this setting accurately.

Daley

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Re: Does WYSIWYG work on MMM? I only see html on both toggles
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2023, 08:08:09 AM »
Thanks for explaining this setting accurately.

Glad to help, and glad it was clear and educational.