Author Topic: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?  (Read 4657 times)

Zikoris

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Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« on: January 31, 2019, 12:08:07 PM »
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section? Toxic political commentary (from both sides) seems to be just permeating everything these days, including threads that are completely non-political. R/financialindependence implemented a policy like this awhile back and it really seemed to clean the place up.

Curious what other people think.

Boofinator

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 01:07:45 PM »
I haven't seen any nakedly partisan politics on this site, which is when things would start getting unbearable. All of the conversations about politics have been logical and in good-faith.

The problem I would have about restricting "politics" is that most conversations are political to some degree or another. Should people bike more? Should there be a carbon tax? Should there be more or less wealth inequality? Is the ACA a good thing? All of these affect our lives and are political in nature.

So in my opinion, no, we should not have a blanket ban on politics. If I find topics of conversation (or particular posters) to be annoying, I just ignore them and move on.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 01:49:57 PM by Boofinator »

scantee

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 01:49:15 PM »
Quote
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section?

No.

It is much more realistic for you, as an individual, to change your behavior to avoid political threads than to expect an entire message board to cater to your preferences by disallowing discussions of what is clearly a popular topic.

diapasoun

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 01:56:20 PM »
I don't know if I'd want a blanket ban on politics. I'm totally fine for a blanket ban on markedly partisan politics (it's annoying at best), but I do agree with Boofinator that there are some real difficulties with excising general political discussion from a lot of the topics here. For example, for USians, the future of the ACA or SSA will affect retirement planning, and that's a discussion that requires mentioning politics. The same will go for UK folks with Brexit planning, or Canadians discussing provincial healthcare systems, or all sorts of related topics. A lot of our discussions around things like charity allocation, or designing a good life, or how to run a business, can be construed as having political elements too.

That being said, I think I have some guesses as to which thread sparked this post, Zikoris, and I share your frustration. I'd personally like to see a lot more respect for OP topics generally -- especially in being thoughtful about whether a tangent is needed or useful. There are broad topics that I'm really interested in but just plain avoid on these forums, because I know exactly what an interesting, unique thread is going to devolve into and I don't need to experience that again and again.

Zikoris

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 02:08:37 PM »
Quote
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section?

No.

It is much more realistic for you, as an individual, to change your behavior to avoid political threads than to expect an entire message board to cater to your preferences by disallowing discussions of what is clearly a popular topic.

I absolutely 100% avoid political threads that are labeled as such. Unfortunately, certain people choose to bring politics into threads that are 100% not about politics at all, and ruin it for everyone else. That's what I wish there was a way to avoid.

scantee

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 02:19:44 PM »
Quote
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section?

No.

It is much more realistic for you, as an individual, to change your behavior to avoid political threads than to expect an entire message board to cater to your preferences by disallowing discussions of what is clearly a popular topic.


I absolutely 100% avoid political threads that are labeled as such. Unfortunately, certain people choose to bring politics into threads that are 100% not about politics at all, and ruin it for everyone else. That's what I wish there was a way to avoid.

I don’t read political threads on this site because I don’t find the discussion of that topic here interesting or illuminating, even though I am very interested in politics generally. When apolitical threads turn towards politics, I stop reading. I feel that there is enough other content this site to make sticking around worthwhile. Were that to change I would decamp to some other forum. Until then, I just avoid any threads that devolve into pissing contests as the politics threads frequently do.

use2betrix

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 04:03:52 PM »
How about creating an actual politics section instead of filling the “off topic” section with like 50% political threads?

MMM is an advocate of the low information diet, as am I, and I don’t really care to wade through the constant political garbage in “off topic” every time I feel like reading something non-MMM related.

Dee18

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 06:45:28 PM »
No.  I like that people can say what they want as long as they are civil.  I think the mods do a great job.  I personally find people’s comments about politics interesting, often even when I disagree.

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 07:04:51 PM »
The issue isn't politics. It's posters who take threads "off topic" from what the original post and discussion is about or who otherwise violate forum rules.

It's impossible to discuss topics like tax policy and planning, health care, investment, transit, housing and many more relevant topics without talking about politics in some form.

Instead of a rule against politics, we just need people to follow the existing ones. And to help the moderators - who are doing a great job & best they can - by reporting and not engaging in toxic discussions that are derailing a thread where-ever they occur.

sol

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 08:15:15 PM »
It's impossible to discuss topics like tax policy and planning, health care, investment, transit, housing and many more relevant topics without talking about politics in some form.

Right.  This is a fundamentally political website we're visiting.  It's about money, the most political thing imaginable to me, and the impact money has on one's life.  It's about the way we as a society interact with each other and our environment.  I don't see any way to have those conversations in an apolitical fashion.

I agree that there have been some ugly political discussions here, but I think that's a temporary side effect of current political realities, and will subside in the future.  If the country ever gets back to fact-based discussions of how to improve the general welfare, much of the current partisan bickering will naturally die down.

Zikoris

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 10:38:39 PM »
It's impossible to discuss topics like tax policy and planning, health care, investment, transit, housing and many more relevant topics without talking about politics in some form.

Right.  This is a fundamentally political website we're visiting.  It's about money, the most political thing imaginable to me, and the impact money has on one's life.  It's about the way we as a society interact with each other and our environment.  I don't see any way to have those conversations in an apolitical fashion.

I agree that there have been some ugly political discussions here, but I think that's a temporary side effect of current political realities, and will subside in the future.  If the country ever gets back to fact-based discussions of how to improve the general welfare, much of the current partisan bickering will naturally die down.

See, I don't think that's necessarily the case. I talk about taxes, health, investment, housing, transit, etc plenty in real life and on other forums/subreddits, and it does not turn into the political bullshit that seems to keep coming up here. Banning politics discussion completely on the financial independence subreddit seems to have cleaned up the place tremendously. A number of the Mustachian and FIRE-oriented Facebook groups have also implemented "No politics" rules, and it not only doesn't seem to impede discussion, it greatly improves the quality of the spaces in general.

It seems pretty easy to me to discuss something like a tax policy by just focusing on the facts and how it's applicable to FIRE or FIRE-oriented people, without bashing the individual politicians, political parties, or voters involved.

sol

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 10:58:18 PM »
It seems pretty easy to me to discuss something like a tax policy by just focusing on the facts and how it's applicable to FIRE or FIRE-oriented people, without bashing the individual politicians, political parties, or voters involved.

Without bashing individual politicians, sure, but it's hard to do without bashing policy positions embraced by those politicians or their parties.

These days, I'm feeling like the key attribute of US politics is exploitation of rural working class people by wealthy (mostly white) capitalists, and the cunning ability of those wealthy capitalists to convince rural working class people to support their own exploitation by convincing them that it's immigrants or brown people who are the problem, instead of vastly wealthy supercorporations.  I don't need to name names for everyone present to know which politicians in power today fall on which side of that debate. 

All subsequent debates about minimum wage, or tax law changes, or immigration, or even seemingly benign topics like the unemployment rate are in some way tied up in this exploitation, and lots of people (from both parties) are justifiably upset about it.  I'm not sure you would help matters any by telling all of those folks to sit down and shut up.  That's the kind of thing a wealthy capitalist would try to do.

Zikoris

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 12:00:36 AM »
It seems pretty easy to me to discuss something like a tax policy by just focusing on the facts and how it's applicable to FIRE or FIRE-oriented people, without bashing the individual politicians, political parties, or voters involved.

Without bashing individual politicians, sure, but it's hard to do without bashing policy positions embraced by those politicians or their parties.

These days, I'm feeling like the key attribute of US politics is exploitation of rural working class people by wealthy (mostly white) capitalists, and the cunning ability of those wealthy capitalists to convince rural working class people to support their own exploitation by convincing them that it's immigrants or brown people who are the problem, instead of vastly wealthy supercorporations.  I don't need to name names for everyone present to know which politicians in power today fall on which side of that debate. 

All subsequent debates about minimum wage, or tax law changes, or immigration, or even seemingly benign topics like the unemployment rate are in some way tied up in this exploitation, and lots of people (from both parties) are justifiably upset about it.  I'm not sure you would help matters any by telling all of those folks to sit down and shut up.  That's the kind of thing a wealthy capitalist would try to do.

I'm not saying anyone has to sit down and shut up, I'm saying this might not be the place for those discussions. Maybe other people agree, and find those discussions toxic like I do. Maybe people disagree, and find some benefit in dragging every second post down the political rabbit hole, whether it's about tax policy or knitting. I have noticed that FIRE-ish online discussion places that are not this one seem to have had great success in reducing toxic discourse and making their platforms more welcoming by banning politics. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer, but "no politics" does seem to work well in other places.

Abe

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 07:45:11 AM »
How would we define discussing politics? Is it the act of mentioning a politician? Or mentioning a political party? Would discussion of an associated topic need to be policed to ensure no one mentions any government policy action? Would discussion of a policy position of a non-profit with a political agenda also count? My point with these questions is that what is and isn’t politics are not clear cut, and censorship rarely fixes the problem of uncivil (or undesired by some, which is what we’re really talking about here) discourse.

libertarian4321

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 08:00:50 AM »
It's impossible to discuss topics like tax policy and planning, health care, investment, transit, housing and many more relevant topics without talking about politics in some form.

Right.  This is a fundamentally political website we're visiting.  It's about money, the most political thing imaginable to me, and the impact money has on one's life.  It's about the way we as a society interact with each other and our environment.  I don't see any way to have those conversations in an apolitical fashion.

I agree.  And unfortunately, the actions of politicians can have a huge effect on our financial lives.  It would be awfully hard to eliminate it from the discussion.

Johnez

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 11:11:23 AM »
No.  I like that people can say what they want as long as they are civil.  I think the mods do a great job.  I personally find people’s comments about politics interesting, often even when I disagree.

This.  The mods do a stand up job.  I've noticed the forum becoming a bit more eh..."unified" in thought though, which I don't like too much.

How about creating an actual politics section instead of filling the “off topic” section with like 50% political threads?

MMM is an advocate of the low information diet, as am I, and I don’t really care to wade through the constant political garbage in “off topic” every time I feel like reading something non-MMM related.

I kind of agree, with the issue of wading through the politics (I'm happy to partake in it though!), but if politics were relegated to a separate section (which I've seen done in other forums), I have a feeling it'd turn into a cesspool and ultimately affect the rest of the forum negatively. 

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I feel like if one avoids the "Off Topic" section, most of the politics can be avoided.  There are tons of great sections on this site, Ask a Mustachian, Reader Recommendations, Mustachianism Around the Web, and of course the main General are all pretty much full of good useful stuff. 

Daisy

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2019, 01:21:30 PM »
I don't think there should be a "no politics" rule. First amendment and all of that.

I personally ignore most political commentary on this forum as it is not why I am here.

I do get annoyed when a thread on say how to handle taxes devolves into people pontificating on how they think taxes should be structured. That is another topic that should go in its own thread. Sometimes you are reading and contributing to a thread to try and optimize your FIRE strategy, say due to taxes, and this commentary then devolves the discussion away from its original intent. At that point, I stop reading those threads, unfortunately.

I'm not sure how to stop this other than just starting a new thread with specific questions.

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2019, 03:59:01 PM »
Agree with Johnez Dee18, use2betrix, who've said it well.

If you need a low-information diet, then go for it.

I find the sometimes foamy/ digressing threads enlightening sometimes.
 It is better to see those points of view in writing as opposed to getting all your information off the TV and end up with statements like my mom's: "those people are demonic".


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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 08:54:51 AM »
Agree with Johnez Dee18, use2betrix, who've said it well.

If you need a low-information diet, then go for it.

I find the sometimes foamy/ digressing threads enlightening sometimes.
 It is better to see those points of view in writing as opposed to getting all your information off the TV and end up with statements like my mom's: "those people are demonic".




I agree. If you dont like the way a conversation is going you can check out whenever you want.  Politics is a part of life and it can and does get ugly BUT if you care about things then better to discuss it to your tolerance than to just wish it away or not care

Buffalo Chip

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 04:37:26 PM »
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section? Toxic political commentary (from both sides) seems to be just permeating everything these days, including threads that are completely non-political. R/financialindependence implemented a policy like this awhile back and it really seemed to clean the place up.

Curious what other people think.

I think you're absolutely correct.  There should be a ban on politics here.  It's not as if it adds to the discussion.  I think the ban should be on politics in general and partisan politics in particular.  Politics is ineffective, coarse, a waste of time, a waste of resources, and the public discussion of it is just plain rude.

Now I understand that I'm the noobiest of noobs and relatively new to mustachianism, but I'm missing where politics has anything to do do with it.  I view this as a mindset, a way of living a better and less consumer driven lifestyle.  A way of challenging yourself.  In truth, I view what I understand about mustachianism to be contrary to politics.

With all respect, money can be discussed quite easily without reference to politics.  It is not inherently political, although I would argue that money is inherently cultural.  Said another way, I fail to see how whether I choose to bike to work is by it's nature a political issue.

With respect, I think that more people in the FI community should challenge themselves to STOP looking at the world and their life in political terms.  It's one way of achieving greater happiness.

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2019, 04:53:55 PM »
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section? Toxic political commentary (from both sides) seems to be just permeating everything these days, including threads that are completely non-political. R/financialindependence implemented a policy like this awhile back and it really seemed to clean the place up.

Curious what other people think.

I think you're absolutely correct.  There should be a ban on politics here.  It's not as if it adds to the discussion.  I think the ban should be on politics in general and partisan politics in particular.  Politics is ineffective, coarse, a waste of time, a waste of resources, and the public discussion of it is just plain rude.

Now I understand that I'm the noobiest of noobs and relatively new to mustachianism, but I'm missing where politics has anything to do do with it.  I view this as a mindset, a way of living a better and less consumer driven lifestyle.  A way of challenging yourself.  In truth, I view what I understand about mustachianism to be contrary to politics.

With all respect, money can be discussed quite easily without reference to politics.  It is not inherently political, although I would argue that money is inherently cultural.  Said another way, I fail to see how whether I choose to bike to work is by it's nature a political issue.

With respect, I think that more people in the FI community should challenge themselves to STOP looking at the world and their life in political terms.  It's one way of achieving greater happiness.

Blue Chips, I saw your comment here, and over in the FAQ thread. You mention the particular evils of partisan politics in both, but I confess I don't understand. Can you clarify what you mean by partisan politics?

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2019, 06:10:10 PM »
I 100% agree with this.

One problem I have is defining what is "bad political discussion" vs "good political discussion." It feels like I Know It When I See It territory to me. This to me is the distinction from the types of politics I think are annoying for the forum and the type that I think sol is getting at. It feels like you could point me to nearly any conversation with any political content here and it'd be easy to classify them "good/bad."

I have wanted a dedicated subforum for political conversations though. A fair number of clear political discussions could be moved there and it'd give a better "take that to the politics forum" instead.

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2019, 07:00:57 PM »
Crossposting my reply about this topic here from discussion of the new off topic policy:
I'd ban the * outta [politics threads], if I thought it was feasible and would lead to a better forum.

Not because I don't think it's interesting (I love politics), but because I don't think it belongs here, specifically because it brings too much toxicity.

HOWEVER, so many money topics automatically turn political because they are, by their nature political. Taxes. Health care. Types of retirement savings accounts. The list goes on.

There are financial forums that ban political topics. I believe both Bogleheads and E-R.org do so. The problem with this is twofold:
1) Their moderation becomes arbitrary. They allow topics to a certain point, then decide they've become political and ban people. It's not fair to those individuals who don't have clear-cut rules.
2) It leads to very heavy handed moderation, out of necessity. Many bannings occur. Many users get upset, it's more work, it's just a big cluster * the other way, if you do ban it.

And that's where I don't think it'd lead to the better forum. More heavy handed moderation, instead of treating people like the adults they are, would not be as fun of a place for anyone to visit.

Ultimately, I'd love to be able to not have politics here, or, even better, have it but have it be non-toxic. Unfortunately, that's not the world we're living in, right now.

So the best compromise we (the people running the forums) have is to have rules around how you argue. Don't be a jerk, for example.

We expect people to act like adults. Mature, not petty. To debate in good faith, using reason and facts. To be willing to change their mind, if presented with new evidence.

Anyone can have whatever opinion they want, if they can calmly present it and add thoughtful, provoking comments to the discussion.

And if people can't play nice, and act like the mature grown ups, then it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum they lie, they don't belong here.
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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 02:54:54 PM »
 I just answered this in another thread, but here's my answer again.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

Laserjet3051

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 03:05:15 PM »
I just answered this in another thread, but here's my answer again.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

In principle, I tend to agree with your logic, but in practice, Bogleheads seems to have nearly perfected the craft of excluding political discussion. So it can be done.

Zikoris

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2019, 03:09:48 PM »
I just answered this in another thread, but here's my answer again.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

I feel like "But EVERYTHING is politics!" is just a huge straw man. Like, honestly, can you really not tell the difference between the toxic cesspool political threads, versus threads in Investor Alley discussing making your portfolio more tax-efficient? It's actually hard for me to believe that people genuinely don't see the difference.

As far as the logistics of how it works, I've been part of a number of FIRE Facebook groups and subreddits that have banned politics, and believe me, it is not difficult at all, and nobody seriously has trouble telling the difference between "Man, this politician sucks ass and everyone who isn't on my side is a racist sexist Nazi" versus "Here are some of your current options for tax-efficient investing".


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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2019, 08:48:24 PM »
I don't think there should be a "no politics" rule. First amendment and all of that.



I emphatically agree though I willingly  acknowledge that under the First Amendment's  free-speech guarantee owners and managers of privately owned  websites such as this one have an absolute right to censor as they choose.

Nevertheless,  I adamantly oppose a "no politics rule" for two reasons.

The first, I concede, is personal: A "no politics rule" is utterly counter to my unflagging support for the spirit of the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech, a guarantee that is at its fullest in the context of political speech.

The second, comprehensive  reason is that choice is the concomitant of liberty: Diverse  aspects of politics extend to policies and governmental objectives that  circumscribe  or expand the  range of choice  available to each individual.   Free political speech ought always to be championed for its most significant value, one  that offers  the possibility of affecting politics such that choice and freedom are enhanced.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:51:04 PM by John Galt incarnate! »

Watchmaker

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2019, 09:23:57 PM »
I don't, because I think much of the political discussion here is good and valuable, and I think banning political discussions from social spaces has ultimately created more problems than it has solved.

I do think people should be better about derailing threads a d keeping solely political discussions out of the other fora.

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2019, 09:56:38 PM »
I just answered this in another thread, but here's my answer again.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

In principle, I tend to agree with your logic, but in practice, Bogleheads seems to have nearly perfected the craft of excluding political discussion. So it can be done.

Have you seen or experienced their moderation? Do you really want that here?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

BicycleB

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2019, 10:55:32 PM »
Sometimes I get tired of the repetitive nature of the political comments. I skip a lot those threads now. Sometimes I notice a fairly non-political thread get hijacked by political remarks. I'd love to have a magic button that says "everything but that" which screens out the politics if it's irrelevant or repetitive.

But 1) sometimes there are more thoughtful discussions of politics here than I see anywhere else, and I value that;

and, 2) as other posters pointed out, sometimes political remarks are relevant.

So I don't support a total ban. Maybe we could develop a forum ethic that distinguishes between political threads and non-political ones. So far, though, the most common "this thread will focus on x" threads I've seen are by people who want sympathy while seeking to ban unsympathetic face punches. I'd be happy to see improvement, just not a total ban.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2019, 09:21:18 AM »
I just answered this in another thread, but here's my answer again.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

In principle, I tend to agree with your logic, but in practice, Bogleheads seems to have nearly perfected the craft of excluding political discussion. So it can be done.

Have you seen or experienced their moderation? Do you really want that here?

arabelspy:  Yes, I am extremely well acquianted with their moderation policies in practice. I am a regular and active participant over at BH. My contribution to this thread was not to advocate for BH-style moderation here but rather to inform the other posters that such political prohibition from a forum is POSSIBLE. Maybe there is a middle road in there somewhere for MMM forum to take? That is somewhere between BHs absolutism, and MMMs wild-wild west style?

use2betrix

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2019, 06:52:08 PM »
As I mentioned above, it’s not that I mind people discussing politics, I just don’t like that nearly our entire “Off Topic” section is basically a “political” section. I would love a good “Off Topic” section that doesn’t involve politics.

I used to be very heavily involved in what was going on in the world of politics. I’m very central and don’t lean either way.

I have made a huge lifestyle change and effort to nearly completely remove politics from my life because I found that the stress and feelings political discussions and articles evoked were often more negative than positive. I’ve removed the “News” feed from my iPhone screen, I’ve unfollowed over 150 facebook friends who would post political things. I used to check CNN and Fox News both, several times a day (amongst other pages). Now it’s down to maybe each once or twice a week.

Again - I just really wish I could enjoy an off topic part of the forum without all the constant politics. In the end, I can identify that it is still largely my own problem and not the forums. I avoid that section all together because I know that my will power will be tested, and I’ll often lose, and end up looking through those threads and potentially posting..

Buffalo Chip

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2019, 05:45:16 PM »
As I mentioned above, it’s not that I mind people discussing politics, I just don’t like that nearly our entire “Off Topic” section is basically a “political” section. I would love a good “Off Topic” section that doesn’t involve politics.

I used to be very heavily involved in what was going on in the world of politics. I’m very central and don’t lean either way.

I have made a huge lifestyle change and effort to nearly completely remove politics from my life because I found that the stress and feelings political discussions and articles evoked were often more negative than positive. I’ve removed the “News” feed from my iPhone screen, I’ve unfollowed over 150 facebook friends who would post political things. I used to check CNN and Fox News both, several times a day (amongst other pages). Now it’s down to maybe each once or twice a week.

Again - I just really wish I could enjoy an off topic part of the forum without all the constant politics. In the end, I can identify that it is still largely my own problem and not the forums. I avoid that section all together because I know that my will power will be tested, and I’ll often lose, and end up looking through those threads and potentially posting..

Congrats on getting the politics out of your life. You’re much happier I’ll bet.

As for the off topic area, I don’t bother with it. Too much on topic stuff that is far more interesting.


sillysassy

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2019, 12:33:15 AM »
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section? Toxic political commentary (from both sides) seems to be just permeating everything these days, including threads that are completely non-political. R/financialindependence implemented a policy like this awhile back and it really seemed to clean the place up.

Curious what other people think.

i love it if there is NO politics.
nicer pple when we don't discuss politics

BTDretire

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2019, 01:40:53 PM »
Do you guys think it would make sense to try to eliminate politics from the forums outside of say, people's journals and the off topic section? Toxic political commentary (from both sides) seems to be just permeating everything these days, including threads that are completely non-political. R/financialindependence implemented a policy like this awhile back and it really seemed to clean the place up.

Curious what other people think.


i love it if there is NO politics.
nicer people when we don't discuss politics

You must be a conservative, it's easy to get flak from those not "nicer people" if you say something from a conservative point of view.

MOD NOTE: Please don't troll. Despite the amusing irony of using a political barb in a thread about no politics, it isn't helpful, or appropriate. Cheers!

 Sorry, just my frustration that this forum is not more balanced. It seems odd to me that people wanting to prepare for there own future and take care of themselves don't lean a little more to the conservative side.
 I could be wrong, and it is a little more conservative, but those of that persuasion are just a little afraid to express it.  I know I am. I'm sure you have seen what happens when you express anything positive about Trump.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 10:36:20 AM by BTDretire »

DadJokes

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2019, 01:29:26 PM »
I haven't seen any nakedly partisan politics on this site, which is when things would start getting unbearable. All of the conversations about politics have been logical and in good-faith.

The problem I would have about restricting "politics" is that most conversations are political to some degree or another. Should people bike more? Should there be a carbon tax? Should there be more or less wealth inequality? Is the ACA a good thing? All of these affect our lives and are political in nature.

So in my opinion, no, we should not have a blanket ban on politics. If I find topics of conversation (or particular posters) to be annoying, I just ignore them and move on.

It's possible to discuss how to navigate around current policies without offering an opinion on the policy itself (or, as is more frequently the case, disparaging people with opposing views).

That said, I have grown to like the Off-Topic subforum. It provides some entertaining reading where people shout at each other, ignore points made, or see who can use the term "straw man" the most. Also, if it weren't there, I'm sure the people who can't have a conversation without turning it into politics would bleed over into other subforums and make them unbearable.

EricL

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Re: Does anyone else think there should be a "No Politics" rule?
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2019, 01:42:16 PM »
I’m not a big fan of endless political arguments and I don’t see every topic worthy of political discussion. Not even money.  But politics is a topic a lot of people value for a variety of reasons.  So a thread devoted to political discussion seems the best bet.  With the tacit understanding some journal threads will include some political talk by their OP’s along with some others that will get politically foamy on occasion.