Author Topic: Deleting Threads  (Read 11239 times)

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Deleting Threads
« on: August 20, 2015, 09:22:01 AM »
My understanding is that the forum is currently configured to allow a user who originates a thread to delete that thread in its entirety, including all the replies posted by other users.  If possible, I think consideration should be given to modifying that configuration.

(This is really just a subcategory of the concern I expressed in the Forum Fail-Safes? thread.  It originally came to my attention earlier this year when theoverlook mentioned in passing his surprise that a user would have the ability to delete an entire thread, but its importance struck home earlier today when I tried to dig up some information from an old thread only to find that it had apparently been deleted.)

Why should a user have the power to delete entire threads?  I agree that we should have the ability to remove our own posts (though I can see how one might argue even the granting of that limited power goes too far), but I don't think it makes sense for users to have the ability to delete the posts of others.  This forum serves, in part, as a repository of valuable information, and none of us should be able to remove entire discussions from the public record merely because we initiated them.

tomsang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2015, 09:31:15 AM »
I agree.  I think deleting of threads should be left to the moderators and only used in extreme circumstances.

rockstache

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7270
  • Age: 11
  • Location: Southeast
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2015, 10:34:42 AM »
+1

It can be really discouraging to bookmark a thread full of helpful info only to revisit and see that it was deleted.

milesdividendmd

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
  • Location: Portlandia
    • Miles Dividend MD
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2015, 12:47:23 PM »
Totally agree. No one should have the power to delete anything that is not their own (including mods).

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2015, 08:01:13 AM »
Ok, so the limited response in this thread has been unanimous among those who chose to weigh in on the matter (all three of you!).  How do we make this petition official?

tomsang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2015, 08:12:17 AM »
I have never seen a deleted thread. That may be the reason for the limited response. In another post by ARS he acknowledged heavily edited posts by moderators as being unacceptable. He alluded to more training of acceptable behavior by the moderators. So a first step may be to Ping ARS with your concerns.

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2015, 08:20:49 AM »
I have never seen a deleted thread. That may be the reason for the limited response. In another post by ARS he acknowledged heavily edited posts by moderators as being unacceptable. He alluded to more training of acceptable behavior by the moderators. So a first step may be to Ping ARS with your concerns.

My concern isn't moderator deletion of threads, but user deletion of threads.  I haven't come across it often either (the two examples I'm aware of are both linked to in my OP, one of which is what led me to start this thread), but I don't think we should have the power to delete the posts of others regardless of the fact that, in practice, we don't often exercise it.  Moreover, that power is disproportionally concentrated in a limited number of posters.  A significant percentage of the most useful threads in the forum were started by sol -- what if he goes rogue and deletes them all?

tomsang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2015, 08:38:52 AM »
I agree.  From ARS post it sounds like some training or orientation is going to occur in the next few weeks.  This topic would be a great one for them to agree to make a rule.  Or the all mighty ARS might be able to flip the switch so posters can't delete threads.  Either way I would start at the top or second to the top, and fire off your concerns to ARS.

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 08:43:30 AM »
What about all of the people who post their case studies? I think they should be able to delete them if they wish.

Yes, I agree that we should be able to delete our own posts, just not the posts of others.  (That is, if we create a thread that generates responses, our deletion of our own posts in that thread should not remove the rest of the thread.)  If there is a concern about deleting material from our own posts that has been quoted by others and would therefore survive the deletion of our own post, I think that should be handled on a case-by-case basis through moderator intervention (and, in any event, that issue is not limited to user-created threads; it could arise just as easily in a thread created by another poster).

I agree.  From ARS post it sounds like some training or orientation is going to occur in the next few weeks.  This topic would be a great one for them to agree to make a rule.  Or the all mighty ARS might be able to flip the switch so posters can't delete threads.  Either way I would start at the top or second to the top, and fire off your concerns to ARS.

Is ARS still on active moderating duty?  I don't want to unnecessarily interrupt his Camino hike.

tomsang

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1085
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 09:09:17 AM »
Is ARS still on active moderating duty?  I don't want to unnecessarily interrupt his Camino hike.

He was on last night, sound like he leaves in a few weeks:  Last Active: August 25, 2015, 10:25:01 PM

Post I was referring to http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/forum-information-faqs/new-moderators/msg762992/#msg762992

"There are no new moderators yet.

There will be within 2 weeks--it's on my to-do list before I leave.

I don't know what caused the instances you refer to (I have been out, as swick noted), but thanks for bringing them up.  A strikethrough with note is always preferred to wholesale deleting, and locking should typically have moderator explanation and/or come after previous warnings.

Your concerns are valid, and this thread will be shared with the new mods.

I'm locking this thread, but if issues do come up with the new mods, feel free to start a new thread at that time (I just don't want to leave this one open and have stuff added to this one, which has nothing to do with that, and have it cause confusion.)  PM me, or another mod, with any concerns.   Thanks."

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 09:13:51 AM »
The thing is, like most message fora, people quote previous posters and they are nested. If I post something and people quote it in response, generally, wouldn't my original text be preserved in their response?

Yes, that's the issue I was addressing here:

If there is a concern about deleting material from our own posts that has been quoted by others and would therefore survive the deletion of our own post, I think that should be handled on a case-by-case basis through moderator intervention (and, in any event, that issue is not limited to user-created threads; it could arise just as easily in a thread created by another poster).

Under the current set-up, outside the context of a thread you yourself created, if someone quotes your post and you subsequently delete your post, the quoted text survives the deletion.  So the issue is not limited threads you created, and I'm not sure why your posts should get special protection simply because they were contained within a post you originally created (though it is a good point that case study posts are probably the most likely to be the subject of desired deletion).

If it were possible to create "self-destructing" or "self-destructible" threads, which put responders on notice that their responses will be deleted or could be deleted by the original poster, I think that would be a good solution, but I'm pretty sure that's not technically feasible or practical.  If the only two options are either "all users can delete entire threads they created, even if other posters responded in them" or "no users can delete entire threads they created, unless no other posters responded in them," I would prefer the latter, and special requests for moderator intervention could always be made if a poster wants to delete an entire thread they started.

In any event, if the primary concern is protection of users' own content, even the current set-up doesn't totally address that issue.  If someone's posts within a thread they created are quoted in another thread (not to mention copied or downloaded to another source outside the forum), the quoted text would still survive deletion of the original thread.  There's got to be a reasonable expectation of some level of nonprivacy and noncontrol over information that you deliberately and willingly post on an internet forum.  I think having the ability to (i) delete your own posts and (ii) appeal for moderator intervention for any steps beyond that, but not having the ability to delete the posts of other posters, strikes the best balance between the competing interests.

swick

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2015, 09:15:15 AM »
Lots of interesting discussion here.

As far as users deleting threads - all of the rules surrounding that are brought about by and working through the limitations of the  forum software. I don't have the foggiest idea of the structure that would be involved with making a change like forbidding users to delete their own posts and threads.

Occasionally Mods are asked to deletes threads, usually this is when someone double posts or has posted the same question in multiple spots. Once in a while it is because someone posted too much personal information and has some real life blowback. When posts get deleted they are usually not "gone" but sent to a recycling bin. We could, in theory, fish them out, remove whatever information the OP didn't want out there and re-post - but we simply don't have the people-power to do that.


brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2015, 09:22:55 AM »
As far as users deleting threads - all of the rules surrounding that are brought about by and working through the limitations of the  forum software. I don't have the foggiest idea of the structure that would be involved with making a change like forbidding users to delete their own posts and threads.

This is what the "Help" section of the forum says:

Quote
Modifying or Deleting Posts

To modify a post, select the Modify link or the Modify icon and make your changes. Most forums are likely to be configured to show the date and time of the last edit, but the administrator(s) may also allow a short period of time to elapse before this happens.

To delete a post, select the Remove button followed by OK from the Remove this message? box that will appear. Some forums may also allow you to remove topics or polls that you start, but the buttons for these are usually at the bottom of the page. It is not possible for a user to remove their first post in a new thread if replies have been posted.

It is up to your forum's administrator to set the permissions that determine who will be allowed to Modify and Delete posts, and for how long after making the original post.

(emphasis added)

I took this to mean that the forum's administrators can decide how to set the deletion configurations, and that switching to a "no user deletion of entire threads" set-up would just require the flipping of a switch by whomever has flip-switching power (ARS?  MMM?).

EDIT:  Also, just to be clear, no one has suggested implementing a restriction on our ability to delete our own posts (only our ability to delete the posts of other posters).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 09:27:47 AM by brooklynguy »

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2015, 06:52:36 AM »
This issue has taken on renewed urgency in my mind now that yesterday a user decided to lock an active thread he had started merely because he did not like the direction the conversation took.  He could have just as easily decided to delete the thread and thereby erase from the public record all the valuable contributions that other forum members spent considerable time and energy producing.  How do we get this issue taken under consideration by the powers that be?  At one moderator's suggestion, I already contacted Kevin Worthington (the site administrator) but received no response.

rockstache

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7270
  • Age: 11
  • Location: Southeast
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2015, 07:06:11 AM »
I had two threads where this happened to me. One, where I asked a question of the person related to something I had seen in another thread and the user did not care to have their posts combined, and therefore deleted it. The other was one that was full of great cell phone info that I wanted to reference and the user just deleted it to have less of an internet footprint. Neither of these were case studies. I don't care if you want to delete your personal info, but the comments are useful and interesting and I don't think the whole threads should be deleted without specific mod intervention if absolutely

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2015, 12:01:00 PM »
MOD NOTE: Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Users are no longer able to delete entire threads, or lock threads.

If you would like a thread removed, or locked, please PM a moderator.  As before, you can edit or remove your own posts, but if it's the first post in a thread with replies, you'll have to edit it to remove the content since it can no longer be deleted without affecting the subsequent replies.

Any questions or concerns, please feel free to post here or PM a mod.

Cheers!
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Bracken_Joy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8927
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2015, 12:07:49 PM »
MOD NOTE: Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Users are no longer able to delete entire threads, or lock threads.

If you would like a thread removed, or locked, please PM a moderator.  As before, you can edit or remove your own posts, but if it's the first post in a thread with replies, you'll have to edit it to remove the content since it can no longer be deleted without affecting the subsequent replies.

Any questions or concerns, please feel free to post here or PM a mod.

Cheers!


Wow! ARS gets things done!

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2015, 12:13:40 PM »
Sometimes, though slowly.  :)
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

brooklynguy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • Age: 43
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2015, 12:19:01 PM »
Dammit!  I had changed my mind and was just about to delete this thread...

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9930
  • Registered member
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2016, 05:31:47 PM »
MOD NOTE: Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Users are no longer able to delete entire threads, or lock threads.

If you would like a thread removed, or locked, please PM a moderator.  As before, you can edit or remove your own posts, but if it's the first post in a thread with replies, you'll have to edit it to remove the content since it can no longer be deleted without affecting the subsequent replies.

Any questions or concerns, please feel free to post here or PM a mod.

Cheers!


Damn, and just today I created 6 extra threads by getting a little to clicky with the submit button

Although there were NO replies, and your message above implies that if there are no replies you can still delete it.

Got the error "You cannot delete your own topics in this board. Check to make sure this topic wasn't just moved to another board."

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28444
  • Age: -997
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2016, 01:31:03 AM »
Ah, I thought that was the case.  Thanks for clarifying.

Deleting all your posts is less clicks for me than deleting six individual ones, hope you don't mind!
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9930
  • Registered member
Re: Deleting Threads
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2016, 09:54:15 AM »
Ah, I thought that was the case.  Thanks for clarifying.

Deleting all your posts is less clicks for me than deleting six individual ones, hope you don't mind!

You wouldn't do that-- you need me to meet your dragon diversity quota

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!