Why oh why will I never learn this lesson?

[TVRodriguez]

It is a rule that clients who balk at my fees or ask for discounts are always more trouble than they are worth.  I know this.  I have written it down to remind myself.  And then, I am presented with a story of someone who really needs my help, who really cannot do it themselves, and I cave.  I offer to do the work at a discount.  Then I do more than I offered originally because I feel bad for someone or feel like I'm helping someone out who really needs it.  I go above and beyond.  And I feel good about it for a minute. 

Then the lesson bites me in the ass and they cause trouble.  Complain.  Ask for MORE work at a GREATER discount.  And I'm the asshole if I don't agree.  And they threaten to, I don't know, maybe give me a bad review online or something.  And I want them to go away, and I know that it won't really take that long to just do it and get rid of them, so I agree.  And that good feeling goes away right quick.

Someone needs to kick me in the head.

[Alternatepriorities]

I thought Mustachians only offered face punches... Are head kicks an option now?

I really must remember your wisdom the next time a particular former employer comes asking for help. It's not just more trouble than it's worth when they don't have the money to pay me... It's always more trouble than it's worth. It's ALWAYS more trouble that it's worth!

[Metalcat]

1000000000000% relate to this.

The best advice I was ever given was that the best way to get sued was to give in when you feel the need to be nice.
Doing your best work at a fair market price *is* nice.

If you want to give back, do so in a structured way, do pro-bono work, or discounted work for a charity, or volunteer in some other capacity, or donate.

Don't get sucked into mixing business with niceness, usually when someone manages to trigger your "niceness" instincts, it just means that they're extremely good at getting people to give them discounts.

[Wrenchturner]

Doing your best work at a fair market price *is* nice.

This.  There's no value in showing contempt for yourself in the interest of charity.  It poisons the well of your business and your giving.  Set your prices and keep your business and charity separate.  That's what I would do anyway. 

More simply, if you're not in a position to verify the heartache stories that are likely sent your way, you shouldn't involve your business in them, in the event that they are false.  Price your risks, even if they involve other peoples' problems.

[solon]

At the minimum, resolve from this day forward not to take on any more clients like this.

After that, you can start working on your existing clients to either step-up to full price, or find another provider.

[Cpa Cat]

It is a rule that clients who balk at my fees or ask for discounts are always more trouble than they are worth.  I know this.  I have written it down to remind myself.  And then, I am presented with a story of someone who really needs my help, who really cannot do it themselves, and I cave.  I offer to do the work at a discount.  Then I do more than I offered originally because I feel bad for someone or feel like I'm helping someone out who really needs it.  I go above and beyond.  And I feel good about it for a minute. 

Then the lesson bites me in the ass and they cause trouble.  Complain.  Ask for MORE work at a GREATER discount.  And I'm the asshole if I don't agree.  And they threaten to, I don't know, maybe give me a bad review online or something.  And I want them to go away, and I know that it won't really take that long to just do it and get rid of them, so I agree.  And that good feeling goes away right quick.

Someone needs to kick me in the head.

I could have written this. Seriously.

I want to kick myself in the head every time I do it after promising not to.

My favorite part is when I agree to do a favor or discount something and they don't take me up on it until months later. Except that now I'm busy and I don't have time for their time-sucking project, but I still feel like an asshole if I say "Sorry, that offer expired," so I try to squeeze them in. Oh wait, that's not my favorite - All of my seriously delinquent Accounts Receivable is from people I did these types of discounts/favors for. That's my favorite part.

[Alternatepriorities]

Oh wait, that's not my favorite - All of my seriously delinquent Accounts Receivable is from people I did these types of discounts/favors for. That's my favorite part.

This...

And working their critical project distracted me from working on projects for good clients.

[calimom]

I feel your pain!

When I started my side business, the owner of a real estate agency was one of my first clients. A reasonable proposal was submitted, she talked me down and I caved. She also wanted month to month instead of an  industry-standard two month agreement. I caved. After the install, she 'wasn't happy' and I changed a number of things. Then she learned what my main business was and  wanted a design and proposal for the office. It was submitted, and instead of the reasonable monthly minimum, she talked me down to about a third less. We still service that location. Our standard invoicing is net-30 and I receive payment either net-45 or 60. I feel like a chump, and probably am.

Thanks for this thread, OP, this felt good to get off my chest and learn I'm not the only one.

[TVRodriguez]

Thanks for all the kind responses, everyone.  I guess a virtual hug worked as well as (or better than!) a kick in the head.

The best advice I was ever given was that the best way to get sued was to give in when you feel the need to be nice.
Doing your best work at a fair market price *is* nice.

If you want to give back, do so in a structured way, do pro-bono work, or discounted work for a charity, or volunteer in some other capacity, or donate.

. . .  usually when someone manages to trigger your "niceness" instincts, it just means that they're extremely good at getting people to give them discounts.

Set your prices and keep your business and charity separate.

MUST remember these words of wisdom.

Thanks also to @Cpa Cat , @Alternatepriorities , and @calimom for relating and feeling my pain-- misery loves company! 

this felt good to get off my chest and learn I'm not the only one.

Definitely!

[MaaS]

It is a rule that clients who balk at my fees or ask for discounts are always more trouble than they are worth.  I know this.  I have written it down to remind myself.  And then, I am presented with a story of someone who really needs my help, who really cannot do it themselves, and I cave.  I offer to do the work at a discount.  Then I do more than I offered originally because I feel bad for someone or feel like I'm helping someone out who really needs it.  I go above and beyond.  And I feel good about it for a minute. 

Then the lesson bites me in the ass and they cause trouble.  Complain.  Ask for MORE work at a GREATER discount.  And I'm the asshole if I don't agree.  And they threaten to, I don't know, maybe give me a bad review online or something.  And I want them to go away, and I know that it won't really take that long to just do it and get rid of them, so I agree.  And that good feeling goes away right quick.

Someone needs to kick me in the head.

I completely agree and relate with all of this. It's probably the #1 thing I've learned in my years as a consultant.

Offering a discount is quite literally making those who value your work subsidize those who don't. It's uncanny how the clients who demand discounts are the ones who pay late, ask for more than agreed upon, and generally cause problems.

Those who agree to the rate right away are so much easier to work with. It would be intuitive to think those who pay more would demand more, but it's usually not the case.

[startbyservingothers]

Thanks for this thread.  I am starting a new business providing Cell phone service and wireless hotspots.  I've been way nicer than I should have been in many situations.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

No good deed goes unpunished. Fact.

[MoneyQuirk]

This is so very true!

80/20 rule applies. 80% of all the headaches come from 20% of the people.

The biggest thing that never ceases to amaze me is the entitlement. After wasting your time, sucking up so much time and energy, they will demand more and ask why they were only given what they were given.

[Luap595]

I feel like this is a type of person I keep coming across. The initial "favor" isn't really them asking for a favor at all, it's a test to see if they can take advantage of you. I see these same people using the same tactic at restaurants, work, etc.

[Smokystache]

I feel like this is a type of person I keep coming across. The initial "favor" isn't really them asking for a favor at all, it's a test to see if they can take advantage of you. I see these same people using the same tactic at restaurants, work, etc.

Wow. Seriously. I had never thought about it this way, but it is so true. Almost like the spammers not 'improving' the horrible "Nigerian Prince" emails because it is a way to quickly weed out people who won't fall for it.

It's a pattern of interacting with the world that they likely use in many different situations (work/personal), etc. Probably obvious to everyone else, but this puts it in a new light.

[Linea_Norway]

Another reason for charging your normal high price is that if your price is high enough, the customer can't afford to disagree with you. That is what my parents in law always said when they sold themselves for high prices as consultants.

[calimom]

Yesterday my cheap client emailed wanting an install for a holiday party being held this Friday. Her caveats: must be high quality design and within a (laughable) budget. I quickly responded saying we were fully booked and all product had been ordered and spoken for before Thanksgiving. More or less true, but if it were one of my easy, no haggling-over-cost clients, I would have jumped through flaming hoops to make something happen.

She broke the fast/cheap/good, pick 2 rule basically by violating all 3!

This thread has helped, and thank you all.

[dominikm]

All cheap clients are generally PITA’s* and need to be fired yesterday, last week, last month! LOL

There are special cases but that’s 0.01% of cheap clients who are ok and don’t cause issues.

* - PITA or Pain In The Ass!

[Missy B]

It is a rule that clients who balk at my fees or ask for discounts are always more trouble than they are worth.  I know this.  I have written it down to remind myself.  And then, I am presented with a story of someone who really needs my help, who really cannot do it themselves, and I cave.  I offer to do the work at a discount.  Then I do more than I offered originally because I feel bad for someone or feel like I'm helping someone out who really needs it.  I go above and beyond.  And I feel good about it for a minute. 

Then the lesson bites me in the ass and they cause trouble.  Complain.  Ask for MORE work at a GREATER discount.  And I'm the asshole if I don't agree.  And they threaten to, I don't know, maybe give me a bad review online or something.  And I want them to go away, and I know that it won't really take that long to just do it and get rid of them, so I agree.  And that good feeling goes away right quick.

Someone needs to kick me in the head.

I completely agree and relate with all of this. It's probably the #1 thing I've learned in my years as a consultant.

Offering a discount is quite literally making those who value your work subsidize those who don't. It's uncanny how the clients who demand discounts are the ones who pay late, ask for more than agreed upon, and generally cause problems.

Those who agree to the rate right away are so much easier to work with. It would be intuitive to think those who pay more would demand more, but it's usually not the case.

Yes. I don't offer deals or discounts for my services and never accommodate the 'deal-hunters' who think they can dicker with me. It's insulting, actually... and the entitled tone of these conversations really rubs me the wrong way. Our rates are already on the low side. We direct everyone who wants package deals to a nearby provider with much higher rates than us who offers package discounts. Their clients still pay more than ours, even with the discount:)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Kyle Schuant]

More simply, if you're not in a position to verify the heartache stories that are likely sent your way, you shouldn't involve your business in them, in the event that they are false.

It's actually worse if their heartache stories are real. Someone who regularly has heartaches is a person who is disorganised and associates with people who make a mess of their lives and business.

Don't put your dick or your business in crazy.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

More simply, if you're not in a position to verify the heartache stories that are likely sent your way, you shouldn't involve your business in them, in the event that they are false.

It's actually worse if their heartache stories are real. Someone who regularly has heartaches is a person who is disorganised and associates with people who make a mess of their lives and business.

Don't put your dick or your business in crazy.

Plenty of people have regular heartaches that aren't anyone's fault, actually. Illness, accident, the unforeseeable actions of others can all cause heartaches that have zero to do with the person heartaching.

[LightStache]

More simply, if you're not in a position to verify the heartache stories that are likely sent your way, you shouldn't involve your business in them, in the event that they are false.

It's actually worse if their heartache stories are real. Someone who regularly has heartaches is a person who is disorganised and associates with people who make a mess of their lives and business.

Don't put your dick or your business in crazy.

Plenty of people have regular heartaches that aren't anyone's fault, actually. Illness, accident, the unforeseeable actions of others can all cause heartaches that have zero to do with the person heartaching.

There's a huge difference between "sorry I need to reschedule our afternoon meeting because my wife just had a car accident" and "my wife is out of work due to cancer, so I need a discount on your services."

That second one is a huge red flag. It will likely turn into "I just need a little more time to pay you" and then silence. Come to find out, the cancer treatment was done six months ago -- they live in a giant house, have a big boat, two luxury cars, and are still taking family ski trips. Wife was making $250K and can't get another job at that salary level. They weren't trying to scam you, but they genuinely believe that because the wife is out of work that they are experiencing hardship that warrants not paying their vendors.

A lot of people are fundamentally irresponsible. They make bad decisions and then can't handle life's little challenges. So if you see indications and warnings like this from a client or potential client, you should run.

[Wrenchturner]

More simply, if you're not in a position to verify the heartache stories that are likely sent your way, you shouldn't involve your business in them, in the event that they are false.

It's actually worse if their heartache stories are real. Someone who regularly has heartaches is a person who is disorganised and associates with people who make a mess of their lives and business.

Don't put your dick or your business in crazy.

Plenty of people have regular heartaches that aren't anyone's fault, actually. Illness, accident, the unforeseeable actions of others can all cause heartaches that have zero to do with the person heartaching.

There's a huge difference between "sorry I need to reschedule our afternoon meeting because my wife just had a car accident" and "my wife is out of work due to cancer, so I need a discount on your services."

That second one is a huge red flag. It will likely turn into "I just need a little more time to pay you" and then silence. Come to find out, the cancer treatment was done six months ago -- they live in a giant house, have a big boat, two luxury cars, and are still taking family ski trips. Wife was making $250K and can't get another job at that salary level. They weren't trying to scam you, but they genuinely believe that because the wife is out of work that they are experiencing hardship that warrants not paying their vendors.

A lot of people are fundamentally irresponsible. They make bad decisions and then can't handle life's little challenges. So if you see indications and warnings like this from a client or potential client, you should run.

Well said.